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Author Topic: African church spreading Gospel in US  (Read 600 times) Average Rating: 0
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Jetavan
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« on: February 13, 2014, 10:06:56 AM »

One of Africa's biggest Christian movements, the Redeemed Christian Church of God, is spreading across the US.

The Pentecostal movement started in Nigeria and opened its first American parish in Detroit in 1992.

Today, Church leaders say they have 720 congregations throughout North America.
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« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2014, 10:21:17 AM »

Reading what the wiki says now. I might have to Google them more a bit later... could be interesting. They look quite zealous, but in a blue collar sorta way, if that's the way to put it. I bet they'd have kinder gentler chick tracts. I'm also guessing that when they forbid "rebellion against church authority" they didn't mean the Orthodox or Catholics police
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« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2014, 10:25:05 AM »

Quote
The Redeemed Christian Church of God has great strength in the number of her membership (almost 6,000,000) all over the world. It is high time the church began to turn this strength to economic advantage. The zeal of the Lord will empower this great vision . Visit website to know more.

I guess they were so filled with zeal for the Lord that they forgot to renew the website  angel
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Jetavan
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« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2014, 10:40:57 AM »

Quote
The Redeemed Christian Church of God has great strength in the number of her membership (almost 6,000,000) all over the world. It is high time the church began to turn this strength to economic advantage. The zeal of the Lord will empower this great vision . Visit website to know more.

I guess they were so filled with zeal for the Lord that they forgot to renew the website  angel
Oh, they renewed it alright. They have zeal. Cool
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If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
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"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
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Jetavan
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« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2014, 10:47:55 AM »

Interesting teachings of a definite Pentecostal nature:

(1) On marriage:

"The Word of God teaches us that monogamy has been the order since the beginning of the Law of Christ. Divorce is permissible only when a life partner has committed adultery. Even then, neither of the two should be married to a new partner while both are yet alive...."

(2) Dedication of children:

"We believe that after a child is born on the 8th day, the parent should bring himher unto the House of the Lord for dedication unto the Lord...."

(3) Sanctification (Holiness):

"Sanctification is another grace of God by which our souls are progressively and completely cleansed. This is the second accomplishment of the grace which through our faith in the Blood of Jesus Christ is wrought after we have been justified and free from our sins or regenerated...."
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 10:48:24 AM by Jetavan » Logged

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Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
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Jetavan
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« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2014, 11:00:58 AM »

Reading what the wiki says now. I might have to Google them more a bit later... could be interesting. They look quite zealous, but in a blue collar sorta way, if that's the way to put it. I bet they'd have kinder gentler chick tracts. I'm also guessing that when they forbid "rebellion against church authority" they didn't mean the Orthodox or Catholics police
The Raleigh, North Carolina, church seems to have a thing for Latin.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 11:01:34 AM by Jetavan » Logged

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Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
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« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2014, 11:02:38 AM »

Oh, they renewed it alright. They have zeal. Cool

I surfed around it a bit (earlier), but I was speaking of the website link they gave on this page.  Wink
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Eastern Mind
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« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2014, 11:06:22 AM »

Quote
ABOUT TRINITY

The egg is comprised of three parts: The yellow yolk, the whitish part, and the shell. Despite these three (3) substances, the egg is not three but one. Likewise, we believe that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost are one God, but made of three persons – hence they are ONE IN TRINITY – Gen. 1:16-29; Matt. 3:16-17; Matt. 18:19.

Wow. Very modalism.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 11:10:41 AM by Eastern Mind » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2014, 11:08:09 AM »

Oh, they renewed it alright. They have zeal. Cool

I surfed around it a bit (earlier), but I was speaking of the website link they gave on this page.  Wink
The "rccgbiz" address sounds suspicious, for a church. Still, they make it easy to transfer funds into the church account. (Looks too much like one of those Nigerian prince scams  Shocked ).
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 11:10:18 AM by Jetavan » Logged

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Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
PeterTheAleut
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« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2014, 03:32:20 PM »

Quote
The Redeemed Christian Church of God has great strength in the number of her membership (almost 6,000,000) all over the world. It is high time the church began to turn this strength to economic advantage. The zeal of the Lord will empower this great vision . Visit website to know more.

I guess they were so filled with zeal for the Lord that they forgot to renew the website  angel
Oh, they renewed it alright. They have zeal. Cool
I like the name of that minister Adeboye. Cheesy
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PeterTheAleut
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« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2014, 03:35:55 PM »

Quote
ABOUT TRINITY

The egg is comprised of three parts: The yellow yolk, the whitish part, and the shell. Despite these three (3) substances, the egg is not three but one. Likewise, we believe that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost are one God, but made of three persons – hence they are ONE IN TRINITY – Gen. 1:16-29; Matt. 3:16-17; Matt. 18:19.

Wow. Very modalism.
How is this modalism? I read this article of faith myself, particularly with an eye for the modalism some Pentecostal sects do teach, and saw nothing modalist in it at all.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 03:36:24 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2014, 03:52:26 PM »

Quote
ABOUT TRINITY

The egg is comprised of three parts: The yellow yolk, the whitish part, and the shell. Despite these three (3) substances, the egg is not three but one. Likewise, we believe that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost are one God, but made of three persons – hence they are ONE IN TRINITY – Gen. 1:16-29; Matt. 3:16-17; Matt. 18:19.

Wow. Very modalism.
How is this modalism? I read this article of faith myself, particularly with an eye for the modalism some Pentecostal sects do teach, and saw nothing modalist in it at all.

I've always found the egg analogy with its "parts" to be, at least coming very close, to modalism. Same with the ice/water/steam analogy.
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PeterTheAleut
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« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2014, 03:54:48 PM »

Quote
ABOUT TRINITY

The egg is comprised of three parts: The yellow yolk, the whitish part, and the shell. Despite these three (3) substances, the egg is not three but one. Likewise, we believe that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost are one God, but made of three persons – hence they are ONE IN TRINITY – Gen. 1:16-29; Matt. 3:16-17; Matt. 18:19.

Wow. Very modalism.
How is this modalism? I read this article of faith myself, particularly with an eye for the modalism some Pentecostal sects do teach, and saw nothing modalist in it at all.

I've always found the egg analogy with its "parts" to be, at least coming very close, to modalism. Same with the ice/water/steam analogy.
Don't get hung up on the analogies when they state what they believe even more clearly without them. Their articles of faith speak very clearly of the Trinity as three Divine PERSONS. Unless they define person differently from how we define person, which their statement of faith does not imply, I don't see any reason to accuse them of modalism simply because they accompany their articulation of Trinitarian dogma with a rather weak analogy.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 03:59:56 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2014, 04:01:11 PM »

Quote
ABOUT TRINITY

The egg is comprised of three parts: The yellow yolk, the whitish part, and the shell. Despite these three (3) substances, the egg is not three but one. Likewise, we believe that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost are one God, but made of three persons – hence they are ONE IN TRINITY – Gen. 1:16-29; Matt. 3:16-17; Matt. 18:19.

Wow. Very modalism.
How is this modalism? I read this article of faith myself, particularly with an eye for the modalism some Pentecostal sects do teach, and saw nothing modalist in it at all.

I've always found the egg analogy with its "parts" to be, at least coming very close, to modalism. Same with the ice/water/steam analogy.
The difference between the egg and water analogies, is that the yolk, albumin, and shell don't transform one into another; whereas liquid water does transform into steam or ice. That makes the egg a not-so-bad model for understanding the Trinitarian formula.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 04:12:56 PM by Jetavan » Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
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« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2014, 04:06:43 PM »

I always wonder....about the true -need- for bringing yet another version of Christianity to an 'already witnessed to' country.

That's really called 'Church Planting', not 'sharing the Gospel' if you ask me....not that Christians (of any kind) shouldnt be good witnesses...but the truth is that people 'have heard the good news of Christ' ...so its really not sharing it....



Admittedly I am slightly biased having once been a non-denominational missionary.......A task at which I failed miserably because i wanted to help people with  
their -needs- rather than 'saving' them......I should have done relief work instead.
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« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2014, 04:11:17 PM »

Quote
ABOUT TRINITY

The egg is comprised of three parts: The yellow yolk, the whitish part, and the shell. Despite these three (3) substances, the egg is not three but one. Likewise, we believe that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost are one God, but made of three persons – hence they are ONE IN TRINITY – Gen. 1:16-29; Matt. 3:16-17; Matt. 18:19.

Wow. Very modalism.
How is this modalism? I read this article of faith myself, particularly with an eye for the modalism some Pentecostal sects do teach, and saw nothing modalist in it at all.

I've always found the egg analogy with its "parts" to be, at least coming very close, to modalism. Same with the ice/water/steam analogy.
The difference between the egg and water analogies, is that the yolk, albumin, and shell don't transform one into another; whereas liquid water does transform into steam or ice. That makes the egg analogy a quite useful analogy for understanding the Trinitarian formula.
Where the egg analogy fails is NOT in any similarity with modalism, but rather in its separation of God into parts, where each Person of the Trinity is only a part of God and not fully God in and of Himself. In the end, this discussion is just more evidence of why we need to avoid getting hung up on analogies, since all our analogies with the things we see in nature (e.g., the egg, the three forms of water, St. Patrick's shamrock) will all fall short in their descriptions of the great mystery of the Holy Trinity. This is where the more straightforward Trinitarian language we see in the Creed and in the writings of the Holy Fathers, particularly St. Basil the Great, does better at preserving a proper understanding of the great mystery.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 04:12:09 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
Jetavan
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« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2014, 04:19:29 PM »

Quote
ABOUT TRINITY

The egg is comprised of three parts: The yellow yolk, the whitish part, and the shell. Despite these three (3) substances, the egg is not three but one. Likewise, we believe that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost are one God, but made of three persons – hence they are ONE IN TRINITY – Gen. 1:16-29; Matt. 3:16-17; Matt. 18:19.

Wow. Very modalism.
How is this modalism? I read this article of faith myself, particularly with an eye for the modalism some Pentecostal sects do teach, and saw nothing modalist in it at all.

I've always found the egg analogy with its "parts" to be, at least coming very close, to modalism. Same with the ice/water/steam analogy.
The difference between the egg and water analogies, is that the yolk, albumin, and shell don't transform one into another; whereas liquid water does transform into steam or ice. That makes the egg analogy a quite useful analogy for understanding the Trinitarian formula.
Where the egg analogy fails is NOT in any similarity with modalism, but rather in its separation of God into parts, where each Person of the Trinity is only a part of God and not fully God in and of Himself.
Are you saying that if, say (hypothetically and fantastically speaking), the Father and the Holy Spirit ceased to exist, and only God the Son existed, that no "loss" of God would have happened, since the Son is "fully God in and of Himself"?

I've always understand the Trinity to mean that the Son is fully God, just as the Father is, because they are of the same "substance" ("homo-ousios"), not because -- if the Father and H.S. were to cease to exist -- no "loss" of God were to happen if only the Son existed.

« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 04:20:34 PM by Jetavan » Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
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« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2014, 04:54:13 PM »

Quote
ABOUT TRINITY

The egg is comprised of three parts: The yellow yolk, the whitish part, and the shell. Despite these three (3) substances, the egg is not three but one. Likewise, we believe that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost are one God, but made of three persons – hence they are ONE IN TRINITY – Gen. 1:16-29; Matt. 3:16-17; Matt. 18:19.

Wow. Very modalism.
How is this modalism? I read this article of faith myself, particularly with an eye for the modalism some Pentecostal sects do teach, and saw nothing modalist in it at all.

I've always found the egg analogy with its "parts" to be, at least coming very close, to modalism. Same with the ice/water/steam analogy.
Don't get hung up on the analogies when they state what they believe even more clearly without them. Their articles of faith speak very clearly of the Trinity as three Divine PERSONS. Unless they define person differently from how we define person, which their statement of faith does not imply, I don't see any reason to accuse them of modalism simply because they accompany their articulation of Trinitarian dogma with a rather weak analogy.

Eh, fair enough.
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« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2014, 04:56:41 PM »

Quote
ABOUT TRINITY

The egg is comprised of three parts: The yellow yolk, the whitish part, and the shell. Despite these three (3) substances, the egg is not three but one. Likewise, we believe that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost are one God, but made of three persons – hence they are ONE IN TRINITY – Gen. 1:16-29; Matt. 3:16-17; Matt. 18:19.

Wow. Very modalism.
How is this modalism? I read this article of faith myself, particularly with an eye for the modalism some Pentecostal sects do teach, and saw nothing modalist in it at all.

I've always found the egg analogy with its "parts" to be, at least coming very close, to modalism. Same with the ice/water/steam analogy.
The difference between the egg and water analogies, is that the yolk, albumin, and shell don't transform one into another; whereas liquid water does transform into steam or ice. That makes the egg analogy a quite useful analogy for understanding the Trinitarian formula.
Where the egg analogy fails is NOT in any similarity with modalism, but rather in its separation of God into parts, where each Person of the Trinity is only a part of God and not fully God in and of Himself.
Are you saying that if, say (hypothetically and fantastically speaking), the Father and the Holy Spirit ceased to exist, and only God the Son existed, that no "loss" of God would have happened, since the Son is "fully God in and of Himself"?

I've always understand the Trinity to mean that the Son is fully God, just as the Father is, because they are of the same "substance" ("homo-ousios"), not because -- if the Father and H.S. were to cease to exist -- no "loss" of God were to happen if only the Son existed.
I'm not going to engage that argument, since the Father and the Holy Spirit will never cease to exist.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 04:56:54 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
Jetavan
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« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2014, 04:59:52 PM »

Quote
ABOUT TRINITY

The egg is comprised of three parts: The yellow yolk, the whitish part, and the shell. Despite these three (3) substances, the egg is not three but one. Likewise, we believe that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost are one God, but made of three persons – hence they are ONE IN TRINITY – Gen. 1:16-29; Matt. 3:16-17; Matt. 18:19.

Wow. Very modalism.
How is this modalism? I read this article of faith myself, particularly with an eye for the modalism some Pentecostal sects do teach, and saw nothing modalist in it at all.

I've always found the egg analogy with its "parts" to be, at least coming very close, to modalism. Same with the ice/water/steam analogy.
The difference between the egg and water analogies, is that the yolk, albumin, and shell don't transform one into another; whereas liquid water does transform into steam or ice. That makes the egg analogy a quite useful analogy for understanding the Trinitarian formula.
Where the egg analogy fails is NOT in any similarity with modalism, but rather in its separation of God into parts, where each Person of the Trinity is only a part of God and not fully God in and of Himself.
Are you saying that if, say (hypothetically and fantastically speaking), the Father and the Holy Spirit ceased to exist, and only God the Son existed, that no "loss" of God would have happened, since the Son is "fully God in and of Himself"?

I've always understand the Trinity to mean that the Son is fully God, just as the Father is, because they are of the same "substance" ("homo-ousios"), not because -- if the Father and H.S. were to cease to exist -- no "loss" of God were to happen if only the Son existed.
I'm not going to engage that argument, since the Father and the Holy Spirit will never cease to exist.
Fair enough.
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If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
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« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2014, 01:08:48 PM »

One of Africa's biggest Christian movements, the Redeemed Christian Church of God, is spreading across the US.

The Pentecostal movement started in Nigeria and opened its first American parish in Detroit in 1992.

Today, Church leaders say they have 720 congregations throughout North America.

The pentecostal movement here in Africa (I'm from South Africa) is something very interesting to observe. We even studied in one of my Anthropology classes this semester. Pentecostalism is a perfect way for many locals to combine their traditional beliefs with Christianity, which I'm sad to say has misguided a lot of people and damaged their relationship with God. In my country there are also a lot of people suffering from HIV/AIDS and sadly people turn to the fake preachers and their 'healing crusades' to find some sort of cure. I'll post (soon) a photo of a pamphlet that I got of an "apostle" who will take away all your problems (poverty, witch-craft, all kinds of spirits, marriage problems, rejection from lover etc.).
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