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Author Topic: India develops a gun for women  (Read 530 times) Average Rating: 0
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Jetavan
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« on: January 31, 2014, 10:05:15 AM »

Quote
The Nirbheek is a .32-caliber handgun made of titanium alloy. Weighing in at just over a pound, it’s the smallest revolver made in India, and “ideal to fit a purse or a small hand bag,” according to the Times of India newspaper, which first reported the story.
....
The gun was designed to be a hybrid of a Smith & Wesson and a Webley & Scott, the Times reported, and will come packaged in a maroon velvet case.

Because, after all, "Indian women like their ornaments," Abdul Hameed, the general manager of the Indian Ordnance Factory (IOF), the state-run manufacturer of the gun, told BBC News.

The name Nirbheek is a synonym of Nirbhaya, the pseudonym given the 23-year-old rape victim because Indian law protected her identity. Both Nirbheek and Nirbhaya mean “fearless,” according to the BBC.
....
While Nirbhaya didn’t know her attackers and was in a public setting, most rapes don’t involve strangers and take place in enclosed spaces and rooms, where a woman would be unlikely to carry a gun, said Nikhil Mehra, a Delhi-based attorney for the Indian Supreme Court who was a member of the government panel charged with examining rape and sexual assault following Nirbhaya’s death.
....
The bigger problem, he said, is the need for better police presence on the streets, more arrests and prosecutions of rapists, better public infrastructure such as lighting and fighting the stigma that has traditionally been tied to reporting rapes in India.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 10:09:29 AM by Jetavan » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2014, 11:25:22 AM »

It's cute, not necessarily useful.  As the article pointed out, it is more expensive than a S&W which is a better gun, IMHO.  .32 is too small.  There is the fact that the presence of a gun ends most violent encounters before they start, but still.

One thing that I have found difficult working with women and guns is that there are a number of factors.  I took a lady out shooting and tried to make sure I had something that didn't kick a lot, so I brought a large N-Frame and fired .38s out of it.  Almost no recoil, but I didn't factor in the size of her hands...she could barely hold the thing.  Most large revolvers have little recoil unless you are being outrageous (hot loaded .357, .44 magnum, that dinosaur hunting .500 S&W...) but women often cannot hold them.  Small frame revolvers like the Ladysmith or the newer scandium (titanium alloy) J-Frames kick quite painfully.  With enough adrenalyne this can be compensated for, but still.  I am rather larger and small handguns just plain hurt to shoot.  And lets not even get into direct blowback compacts like the Radom or Makarov.  They are easy to carry, especially if you carry a purse, but I have felt like I would have carpultunnel (sp?) after two magazines.

At the end of the day, I do think women should be armed more often than they are as frankly, they are targeted more often.  Male-rape is relatively rare and men are on average larger.  At 6'3" and nearing 300 lbs I am not much of a target, armed or unarmed.  Maybe from a group, but then the revolver is the equalizer, as it has always been from the Colt Patterson to the present.  A 5'3" woman at 100 lbs is going to need an equalizer from just about any single man, and certainly against a bigger one or a group of them.
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« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2014, 11:31:09 AM »

Most large revolvers have little recoil unless you are being outrageous (hot loaded .357, .44 magnum, that dinosaur hunting .500 S&W...) but women often cannot hold them.  Small frame revolvers like the Ladysmith or the newer scandium (titanium alloy) J-Frames kick quite painfully.  With enough adrenalyne this can be compensated for, but still. 
What if you use two hands to shoot?
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« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2014, 11:38:55 AM »

Most large revolvers have little recoil unless you are being outrageous (hot loaded .357, .44 magnum, that dinosaur hunting .500 S&W...) but women often cannot hold them.  Small frame revolvers like the Ladysmith or the newer scandium (titanium alloy) J-Frames kick quite painfully.  With enough adrenalyne this can be compensated for, but still. 
What if you use two hands to shoot?

Two hands is always better, both as a matter of stability and accuracy.  I usually fire one handed but it does seem to reduce recoil a bit, but it is still pretty fierce.
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« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2014, 05:21:32 PM »

Vamrat I am not sure you know how to use a gun for real self defense. I'll need to know how many people you have shot and stabbed.

Having stabbed and shot others, I do think most people are out of their mind following my grandfather's approach in your typical urban or surprise encounter. Cooper, isoscelese, target practice doesn't matter.

Pick up some filipino knife training and use your gun as an exploding knife. Fermoral arteries and the pain from pelvic bones shattering will stop most nonsense. This can be easily and quickly learned and practiced as live as you want up until you are using ammo.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 05:22:09 PM by orthonorm » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2014, 05:29:16 PM »

And since and your family are giants I am sure you can't appreciate dealing with someone a lot, lot bigger than you. Being your size in itself is a deterrent.

Being relatively small weightwise as an adult, I know how other acted toward me when I was 135 vs 225. Being 225 saved me a ton a grief. Being 6' and 185, it is a wash.

I can't imagine being an average sized woman. I would have a baseball bat with me a lot.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 05:29:45 PM by orthonorm » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2014, 05:30:54 PM »

And since and your family are giants I am sure you can't appreciate dealing with someone a lot, lot bigger than you. Being your size in itself is a deterrent.

Being relatively small weightwise as an adult, I know how other acted toward me when I was 135 vs 225. Being 225 saved me a ton a grief. Being 6' and 185, it is a wash.

I can't imagine being an average sized woman. I would have a baseball bat with me a lot.

Then again contrary to what most think, men are much more likely to be the victims of violent crime.
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« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2014, 08:58:09 PM »

Vamrat I am not sure you know how to use a gun for real self defense. I'll need to know how many people you have shot and stabbed.

Having stabbed and shot others, I do think most people are out of their mind following my grandfather's approach in your typical urban or surprise encounter. Cooper, isoscelese, target practice doesn't matter.

Pick up some filipino knife training and use your gun as an exploding knife. Fermoral arteries and the pain from pelvic bones shattering will stop most nonsense. This can be easily and quickly learned and practiced as live as you want up until you are using ammo.

Using a gun for self defense is actually quite easy 99% of the time.  Step 1: don't go places/be around people that can get you killed.  Step 2: If you do, stay in your ******* car.  F=MA, a ton at 30mph is stronger than any bullet not fired out of anti-tank weaponry.  And it's faster than you.  Guaranteed.  Step 3: Don't pick fights.  Step 4: If someone else does, 9.5 times out of 10 the existence of a gun ends it.  Step 5: If you have to shoot, point the barrel in the direction of the opposition (not yourself) and pull the trigger until the target "changes shape or sets on fire" (something I read from an old tanker).  Note that horizontal vs vertical counts as changing shape.  Step 6: Get prepared to get defecated on by the courts to the point that it might have just been best to have let him bang your head on the sidewalk til he got tired of it.

I have never gotten past Step 4 and it has worked like a charm.
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« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2014, 12:22:11 AM »

Vamrat I am not sure you know how to use a gun for real self defense. I'll need to know how many people you have shot and stabbed.

Having stabbed and shot others, I do think most people are out of their mind following my grandfather's approach in your typical urban or surprise encounter. Cooper, isoscelese, target practice doesn't matter.

Pick up some filipino knife training and use your gun as an exploding knife. Fermoral arteries and the pain from pelvic bones shattering will stop most nonsense. This can be easily and quickly learned and practiced as live as you want up until you are using ammo.

Using a gun for self defense is actually quite easy 99% of the time.  Step 1: don't go places/be around people that can get you killed.  Step 2: If you do, stay in your ******* car.  F=MA, a ton at 30mph is stronger than any bullet not fired out of anti-tank weaponry.  And it's faster than you.  Guaranteed.  Step 3: Don't pick fights.  Step 4: If someone else does, 9.5 times out of 10 the existence of a gun ends it.  Step 5: If you have to shoot, point the barrel in the direction of the opposition (not yourself) and pull the trigger until the target "changes shape or sets on fire" (something I read from an old tanker).  Note that horizontal vs vertical counts as changing shape.  Step 6: Get prepared to get defecated on by the courts to the point that it might have just been best to have let him bang your head on the sidewalk til he got tired of it.

I have never gotten past Step 4 and it has worked like a charm.

Let's be clear as you have said, you have never been in a fight. If you live a privileged life where violence is a choice for you for the most part, great. You can play wargames at the table and the range and talk about gun nerdery.. But those who haven't had such luck or choices shouldn't take you too seriously when talking about firearm usage for self-defense. The first adult male I had to square off with a firearm with was at age 7-8. He lived in my the same place I did. So all your rules didn't work.

Being born in the right time and place is great self-defense. Your situation and that of an Indian is likely very different.

orthonorm is tired of all the posturing all around here lately. Expect my posting to become even more pointed.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 12:22:57 AM by orthonorm » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2014, 02:40:06 AM »

Vamrat I am not sure you know how to use a gun for real self defense. I'll need to know how many people you have shot and stabbed.

Having stabbed and shot others, I do think most people are out of their mind following my grandfather's approach in your typical urban or surprise encounter. Cooper, isoscelese, target practice doesn't matter.

Pick up some filipino knife training and use your gun as an exploding knife. Fermoral arteries and the pain from pelvic bones shattering will stop most nonsense. This can be easily and quickly learned and practiced as live as you want up until you are using ammo.

Using a gun for self defense is actually quite easy 99% of the time.  Step 1: don't go places/be around people that can get you killed.  Step 2: If you do, stay in your ******* car.  F=MA, a ton at 30mph is stronger than any bullet not fired out of anti-tank weaponry.  And it's faster than you.  Guaranteed.  Step 3: Don't pick fights.  Step 4: If someone else does, 9.5 times out of 10 the existence of a gun ends it.  Step 5: If you have to shoot, point the barrel in the direction of the opposition (not yourself) and pull the trigger until the target "changes shape or sets on fire" (something I read from an old tanker).  Note that horizontal vs vertical counts as changing shape.  Step 6: Get prepared to get defecated on by the courts to the point that it might have just been best to have let him bang your head on the sidewalk til he got tired of it.

I have never gotten past Step 4 and it has worked like a charm.

Let's be clear as you have said, you have never been in a fight. If you live a privileged life where violence is a choice for you for the most part, great. You can play wargames at the table and the range and talk about gun nerdery.. But those who haven't had such luck or choices shouldn't take you too seriously when talking about firearm usage for self-defense. The first adult male I had to square off with a firearm with was at age 7-8. He lived in my the same place I did. So all your rules didn't work.

Being born in the right time and place is great self-defense. Your situation and that of an Indian is likely very different.

orthonorm is tired of all the posturing all around here lately. Expect my posting to become even more pointed.

My level of sobriety is nearing the legal limit and will soon surpass, so imma ask what everyone wants to know, but do you have a form letter or something?

Ur internezt suxxorz.  You don't know much 'bout killin'.  You bore me.  When I was living on the mean streets of Deliverence TN I had to kill some bums with my barehandz.  You bore me.

Come on, homes, have you ever fired a small frame revolver or direct blowback pistol?  Or were they rollin' drive by's in your hood with antique Russian C&R gats?
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« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2014, 03:31:58 PM »

.32 is better than nothing.  Here's a story of a guy who lived a while longer with a .25 after being attacked in his pawn shop.
http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2012/03/on-25acp-and-stopping-power.html

The vast majority of times, you are on your own to defend yourself.
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« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2014, 03:51:36 PM »

.32 is better than nothing.  Here's a story of a guy who lived a while longer with a .25 after being attacked in his pawn shop.
http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2012/03/on-25acp-and-stopping-power.html

The vast majority of times, you are on your own to defend yourself.

I didn't read the article but the general outlook of that site was fairly scary. Lips Sealed
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« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2014, 04:35:46 PM »


Let's be clear as you have said, you have never been in a fight. If you live a privileged life where violence is a choice for you for the most part, great. You can play wargames at the table and the range and talk about gun nerdery.. But those who haven't had such luck or choices shouldn't take you too seriously when talking about firearm usage for self-defense. The first adult male I had to square off with a firearm with was at age 7-8. He lived in my the same place I did. So all your rules didn't work.


I've been in four armed encounters.  The first was at 15 years old.  I can say that all four encounters ended immediately upon the agressor realizing that I was armed.  Spending time as a minority (white guy in black and Porto Rican neighborhoods) usually provides the opportunity to use some self defense techniques.  After being assaulted by a member of one of the afore mentioned ethinc groups at 13 years old, I swore that it would never happen again.  It has not.  A pistol has been a constant companion of mine for most of my life (all of my adult life).  However, I will say that the training that I have had in avoiding confrontation has been quite useful.  Only one encounter occured after the training, and it did not require me to draw my weapon. Just telling the drunk pile of scum that I would blow his head off if he took another step did the job quite well.  In any case, I have to admit that I agree totally with Wyatt Earp when he said that the best way to win a gunfight is to not show up.

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« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2014, 04:50:42 PM »

.32 is better than nothing.  Here's a story of a guy who lived a while longer with a .25 after being attacked in his pawn shop.
http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2012/03/on-25acp-and-stopping-power.html

The vast majority of times, you are on your own to defend yourself.

The most important part of that article was this; have the weapon on you.  A friend of mine that lived in one of the rough parts of town with me lost a good friend and music teacher of his two years ago.  She was killed when a man she knew stabbed her multiple times in her own home.  The two nice Smith and Wesson .38 Special revolvers that she had in her safe did her no good at all.
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« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2014, 07:31:33 AM »

.32 is better than nothing.  Here's a story of a guy who lived a while longer with a .25 after being attacked in his pawn shop.
http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2012/03/on-25acp-and-stopping-power.html

The vast majority of times, you are on your own to defend yourself.

I didn't read the article but the general outlook of that site was fairly scary. Lips Sealed

The general outlook of life is pretty scary.
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« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2014, 10:55:17 AM »

I found an article on stopping power a while back: http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/the-center-mass-myth-and-ending-a-gunfight-triggernometry/

Quote
...
There is a self styled self defense “expert” under every rock, and perhaps two behind every bush, these days. If you have a pet theory on what might work on the street then you can probably find a champion for that idea who actually charges people to teach them that skill. But few of the experts out there have ever been in gunfights, and even fewer have studied real gunfights to see how things really work out when the bullets really fly for blood.
...
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« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2014, 11:01:46 AM »

I found an article on stopping power a while back: http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/the-center-mass-myth-and-ending-a-gunfight-triggernometry/

Quote
...
There is a self styled self defense “expert” under every rock, and perhaps two behind every bush, these days. If you have a pet theory on what might work on the street then you can probably find a champion for that idea who actually charges people to teach them that skill. But few of the experts out there have ever been in gunfights, and even fewer have studied real gunfights to see how things really work out when the bullets really fly for blood.
...

That's a pretty good article, but I still like what Punch wrote: 
Quote
have the weapon on you.
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« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2014, 11:18:44 AM »

.32 is better than nothing.  Here's a story of a guy who lived a while longer with a .25 after being attacked in his pawn shop.
http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2012/03/on-25acp-and-stopping-power.html

The vast majority of times, you are on your own to defend yourself.

I didn't read the article but the general outlook of that site was fairly scary. Lips Sealed

The general outlook of life is pretty scary.

Not around here. I've never had any need for a gun. I remember one Mexican exchange student who was suprised that she didn't hear any shooting anywhere during her time here. Finland is fairly boring place to live.
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« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2014, 11:39:31 AM »

Not around here. I've never had any need for a gun. I remember one Mexican exchange student who was suprised that she didn't hear any shooting anywhere during her time here. Finland is fairly boring place to live.

What's the most common way of suicide or murder in Finland?  Considering it does not have the gun culture we have in the US, I'd be interested.

That being said, I'm glad I am armed.
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« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2014, 11:43:36 AM »

.32 is better than nothing.  Here's a story of a guy who lived a while longer with a .25 after being attacked in his pawn shop.
http://smallestminority.blogspot.com/2012/03/on-25acp-and-stopping-power.html

The vast majority of times, you are on your own to defend yourself.

I didn't read the article but the general outlook of that site was fairly scary. Lips Sealed

The general outlook of life is pretty scary.

Not around here. I've never had any need for a gun. I remember one Mexican exchange student who was suprised that she didn't hear any shooting anywhere during her time here. Finland is fairly boring place to live.

Because look what happened the last time the Russians tried doing a drive by on Finland!  Some hoodlum tries to mug someone in Finland, he's liable to find that it's the grandson of Simo Hayha who I heard killed seven Russians by farting lightening bolts but it was never added to his tally since they were unconfirmed kills (the bodies disintegrated). 
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« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2014, 11:50:03 AM »

I found an article on stopping power a while back: http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/the-center-mass-myth-and-ending-a-gunfight-triggernometry/

Quote
...
There is a self styled self defense “expert” under every rock, and perhaps two behind every bush, these days. If you have a pet theory on what might work on the street then you can probably find a champion for that idea who actually charges people to teach them that skill. But few of the experts out there have ever been in gunfights, and even fewer have studied real gunfights to see how things really work out when the bullets really fly for blood.
...

That's a pretty good article, but I still like what Punch wrote: 
Quote
have the weapon on you.

The article seems to take that as a granted.

Rule 1 of a gun fight: Have a gun.
Rule 2 of a gun fight: Have that gun be a rifle.
Rule 3 of a gun fight: Bring your friends.
Rule 4 of a gun fight: Have your friends bring rifles!

(As the article states, there is no guaranteed stopper, but multiple rifles seem to be the closest!)
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« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2014, 12:00:14 PM »

Not around here. I've never had any need for a gun. I remember one Mexican exchange student who was suprised that she didn't hear any shooting anywhere during her time here. Finland is fairly boring place to live.

What's the most common way of suicide or murder in Finland?  Considering it does not have the gun culture we have in the US, I'd be interested.

That being said, I'm glad I am armed.

AFAIK we actually have quite alot of weapons. They're just not for protections but for hunting. As for the most common method of suicide, according to Finnish Wikipedia it is hanging for men and poisoning for women. Guns are the second mosr common method.

I've never heard of Simo Häyhä in here. I think it was some American website where I first read of him.
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« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2014, 12:43:36 PM »

That's a pretty good article, but I still like what Punch wrote: 
Quote
have the weapon on you.
Rule 1 of a gun fight: Have a gun.
Rule 2 of a gun fight: Have that gun be a rifle.
Rule 3 of a gun fight: Bring your friends.
Rule 4 of a gun fight: Have your friends bring rifles!

Rules to live by!  Reach out and touch someone.
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« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2014, 12:47:14 PM »

Not around here. I've never had any need for a gun. I remember one Mexican exchange student who was suprised that she didn't hear any shooting anywhere during her time here. Finland is fairly boring place to live.

What's the most common way of suicide or murder in Finland?  Considering it does not have the gun culture we have in the US, I'd be interested.

That being said, I'm glad I am armed.

AFAIK we actually have quite alot of weapons. They're just not for protections but for hunting. As for the most common method of suicide, according to Finnish Wikipedia it is hanging for men and poisoning for women. Guns are the second mosr common method.

I've never heard of Simo Häyhä in here. I think it was some American website where I first read of him.

OUTRAGE!!!

Let me guess, most Finns are Audie Murphy fans, then?
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« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2014, 12:57:09 PM »



Bad-asses.
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