Deaconess in Coptic and other oriental churches

[HabteSelassie]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Thank you.

I see it is just this term "ordained" which is being thrown around a bit to freely in the community and literature then which adds to the confusion.  Again, in the Ethiopian tradition our lesser orders or not "ordained" but are indeed set aside, but ordination is reserved solely for the clergies, be they Deacons, Priests, or Bishops, and all ordained clergy are given the due respect and reverence, hence why this confusion is important.  I wouldn't want to over-revere a non-ordained yet special laity, and further I wouldn't want to disrespect an ordained and rightfully reverend clergy

stay blessed,
habte selassie

[Ortho_cat]

i've got nothing against that...

[Hiwot]

Johnatan thank you for that post, I really enjoyed reading this thread.

[witega]

Nuns stay in the convent and are devoted to prayer, while deaconesses (and consecrated servants), live in the world, usually communally, and serve socially (more like post-vatican II RC nuns). This is a recent development. The order of deaconess had fallen into disuse and was revived.

Approximately when did this revival occur? Curious because when the subject of reviving 'deaconesses' comes up in EO circles, one of the points that regularly gets brought up is that St. Nectarios of Aegina ordained several deaconesses at the monastery he was spiritual father too. This was in 1911 or so. And as we have recently been informed, St. Nectarios was on very good terms with the Coptic Chuch while he was Metropolitan of Pentapolis.

[countertenor]

The order of deaconesses (ordained) exists in Syriac Orthodox Church. We have TKSO (Liturgy) for it. But it is no longer practiced even in Malankara.

My son's godmother is Malankara Orthodox, and while she was living somewhere with only a Syriac Orthodox parish, she was ordained a deaconess, by the Syriac Bishop, with the permission of the Malankara bishop, who said to keep it quiet, because the bishops were still trying to figure out how to reintroduce Deaconesses to the Malankara faithful in India.

[Jonathan]

Nuns stay in the convent and are devoted to prayer, while deaconesses (and consecrated servants), live in the world, usually communally, and serve socially (more like post-vatican II RC nuns). This is a recent development. The order of deaconess had fallen into disuse and was revived.

Approximately when did this revival occur? Curious because when the subject of reviving 'deaconesses' comes up in EO circles, one of the points that regularly gets brought up is that St. Nectarios of Aegina ordained several deaconesses at the monastery he was spiritual father too. This was in 1911 or so. And as we have recently been informed, St. Nectarios was on very good terms with the Coptic Chuch while he was Metropolitan of Pentapolis.

I believe much more recently than that.

http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2000/479/spec1.htm

"Such regulations are enshrined in the Code for Consecrated Deaconesses, which was drawn up in 1992 by the Holy Synod, headed by Pope Shenouda III"

"a doctor who became a consecrated deaconess in 1980,"

Found it, http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/subdivisions/coptic_1.shtml

"The early Church had women deacons but abandoned this in the 13th century. The Church resumed the ordination of women as deaconesses in 1981 and there are now at least 400 consecrated deaconesses in the Coptic church. Traditionally, a deaconess is either a virgin or a widow."

[witega]

"The early Church had women deacons but abandoned this in the 13th century. The Church resumed the ordination of women as deaconesses in 1981 and there are now at least 400 consecrated deaconesses in the Coptic church. Traditionally, a deaconess is either a virgin or a widow."

That certainly seems to preclude Coptic influence on St. Nectarios action, but it introduces a new question to me. 1981 (which is in living memory for a lot of us) and already up to 400+? That seems surprisingly fast, at least for any change among Orthoeox. Was there any particular impetus that anyone's aware not only for the Copts to revive the order but seemingly to do with such enthusiasm?

[Jonathan]

400 doesn't seem that fast among 10 000 000. There are thousands of monks and nuns, some of whom do end up serving in the world even though that isn't their role, and probably more living ascetic lives in the world who are called to celibacy, but do not wish to leave the world. I would think there would be enough pressure from these two sides.

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