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Author Topic: Imperial Palace in Constaninople and the Tombs of the Emperors  (Read 420 times) Average Rating: 0
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Alveus Lacuna
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« on: January 27, 2014, 03:48:47 PM »

I have been doing some reading about Istanbul and noticed that I think the Blue Mosque was built on the site of the palace where the Byzantine Emperors lived. Other sites I have read mentioned that there used to be an elaborate labyrinth of the tombs of the old emperors. Are there any archeological remains of the imperial palace or the old tombs? This all sounds really awesome and I can only imagine how glorious it must have been given the Greek love for splendor.

Are there any pictures anyone can post of surviving artifacts? Did the Turks destroy everything, or are some of these things currently in museums?

Also, if you history buffs can point me to good primary sources or newer histories that describe this side of Byzantium I would love to know about those resources.
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« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2014, 04:45:04 PM »

The emperors were buried in the Church of the Holy Apostles. It was demolished to build the Fatih mosque.
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« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2014, 04:50:19 PM »

There is little official archaeological excavation of Roman Constantinople because the Turks built on top of the ruins. To excavate, one would need to dig under the foundations. I've heard rumors of secret tunnels known to the public works people in Istanbul, but AFAIK, those things are off limits to the public.
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« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2014, 04:52:52 PM »

There is little official archaeological excavation of Roman Constantinople because the Turks built on top of the ruins. To excavate, one would need to dig under the foundations. I've heard rumors of secret tunnels known to the public works people in Istanbul, but AFAIK, those things are off limits to the public.

The Israelis and Italians regularly do such digs. What are the Turks afraid of? Perhaps they fear historical truth??
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« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2014, 05:21:12 PM »

There is little official archaeological excavation of Roman Constantinople because the Turks built on top of the ruins. To excavate, one would need to dig under the foundations. I've heard rumors of secret tunnels known to the public works people in Istanbul, but AFAIK, those things are off limits to the public.

The Israelis and Italians regularly do such digs. What are the Turks afraid of? Perhaps they fear historical truth??
Yes, but then in Palestine the digs only dig as far to find Hebrew and Israelite occupation, at which point it stops (so an archaelogist there said).  And of course the Italians want to find Romans.
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« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2014, 05:23:07 PM »

The emperors were buried in the Church of the Holy Apostles. It was demolished to build the Fatih mosque.
What was left of it: the Fourth Crusade carried off a lot.
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« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2014, 06:26:49 PM »

There is little official archaeological excavation of Roman Constantinople because the Turks built on top of the ruins. To excavate, one would need to dig under the foundations. I've heard rumors of secret tunnels known to the public works people in Istanbul, but AFAIK, those things are off limits to the public.

The Israelis and Italians regularly do such digs. What are the Turks afraid of? Perhaps they fear historical truth??

What are you talking about?
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« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2014, 06:32:10 PM »

There is little official archaeological excavation of Roman Constantinople because the Turks built on top of the ruins. To excavate, one would need to dig under the foundations. I've heard rumors of secret tunnels known to the public works people in Istanbul, but AFAIK, those things are off limits to the public.

The Israelis and Italians regularly do such digs. What are the Turks afraid of? Perhaps they fear historical truth??
Yes, but then in Palestine the digs only dig as far to find Hebrew and Israelite occupation, at which point it stops (so an archaelogist there said).  And of course the Italians want to find Romans.

I thought of you this weekend when I watching some Daystar. They had this whole program about why Israel had a historical and legal mandate to exist. This is the evo TV channel in my market btw. The "documentary" was nothing but interviews with Conservative and Orthodox Zionist Jews. It was bizarre. I knew Christian Zionism existed and have heard some of the arguments before of course, but I never saw so much energy given to proving this fact to other Christians.

Anyway, they had all these maps documenting the claims from the Torah on along with some 19th century on legal claims. I just really wished you could've run counterpoint. I know what you look like, but do you have a voice for broadcasting?
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« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2014, 08:24:50 PM »

On History Channel's Cities of the Underworlds the first episode was Istanbul.  They rerun every week, maybe on demand as well.
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« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2014, 04:25:09 AM »

Some of the Emperors were buried in the Church of the Apostles.

The Church of the Apostles was built for the objective, to hold relics of all the apostles in that church, and to also hold the remains of Emperor Constantine (likewise known as "Equal to the Apostles) If I can remember, they could only get three Apostles, and later on other Emperors were also buried there.


I do not believe one can find many remains of any Emperors or Patriarchs in Constantinople. First, there are mentions of looting the tombs of both Emperor and Patriarch in the fourth crusade (among other things, many ancient sculptures of bronze ect melted down to make coins). I do not know where the remains of Emperor Constantine went through history But it is clear, that the remains of Emperor Justinian was included in the looting in the fourth crusade as his tomb was mentioned specifically.

By then, I do not believe many remains were left. Next, there was the Fall of Constantinople, where again anything remaining were looted, and later those churches destroyed and mosques built on top of them.

I feel sorry for any Christian buried in Constantinople. Then again I feel sorry for anyone buried in any, now major, city. (such as Paris for example...)


here are some pictures of results of excavations in Turkey

http://www.haber365.com/Galeri/Marmarayda_Bulunan_Tarihi_Eserler/1/

Notice all those skeletons... I feel very bad for those people buried there. I wish I knew who they were. They were people

This is the one that strikes me the most:






About the Church of the Apostles, there have been some excavations around the mosque, but they have ceased. It is known, that there is a Byzantine Chamber found under the mosque over the old site found during renovations. It was boarded up, and allowance to get in was not granted to archeologists.

I read that archaeology in Turkey is priced so only really Turks can conduct excavation. Foreign archaeological teams are put for such a price no one can pay for it. It is very unfortunate, as also the government does not seem to have much care for the archaeological value in Constantinople.
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« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2014, 04:31:55 AM »

There is little official archaeological excavation of Roman Constantinople because the Turks built on top of the ruins. To excavate, one would need to dig under the foundations. I've heard rumors of secret tunnels known to the public works people in Istanbul, but AFAIK, those things are off limits to the public.

The Israelis and Italians regularly do such digs. What are the Turks afraid of? Perhaps they fear historical truth??

No, they simply do not care. The government wants to modernise turkey, and especially Istanbul. More roads, more large buildings, more tubes.

The Turkish Prime minister called the findings of local archeologists "knick knacks"

These are knick knacks according to the PM:

http://www.nautarch.org/cms/archaeological-sites
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« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2014, 02:17:19 PM »

If you go to Istanbul looking for Byzantine ruins, you will come away pretty disappointed or depressed, apart from some churches and of course the Theodosian walls. The old palaces are mostly rubble now, having been taken apart over the centuries to make new houses, or just built over. When I walked by the old Blachernae palace it was basically some fairly featureless rubble with graffiti. There were signs marking it off as an archaeological site, hinting that there might be some restoration, but it seemed like there wasn't much to be done.
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« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2014, 10:57:46 AM »

Porphyry sarcophagi of Byzantine emperors on display outside the Istanbul Archaeology Museums:

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« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2014, 01:11:00 PM »

There is little official archaeological excavation of Roman Constantinople because the Turks built on top of the ruins. To excavate, one would need to dig under the foundations. I've heard rumors of secret tunnels known to the public works people in Istanbul, but AFAIK, those things are off limits to the public.

The Israelis and Italians regularly do such digs. What are the Turks afraid of? Perhaps they fear historical truth??

This reminded me of some Turks I've heard from, who really had no idea that Turkey hadn't always existed there and that there was once some thing called the "Roman/Byzantine Empire."
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