Author Topic: What was the Western Rite done on Mt. Athos?  (Read 2455 times)

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Offline Joseph Hazen

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What was the Western Rite done on Mt. Athos?
« on: January 26, 2014, 02:09:40 AM »
I've heard repeatedly that there was a Western monastery on Mt. Athos for much longer than any other Orthodox land. I was curious - do we not have the texts from the monastery describing the liturgy and other mysteries? If so, did these in any way influence the current Western Rite practices?

Offline Hinterlander

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Re: What was the Western Rite done on Mt. Athos?
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2014, 08:05:12 AM »
Are you referring to Morphonou Monastery?  I saw it listed as a "western monastery" on a map but don't know anything about it.  Good question.

Offline Hinterlander

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Re: What was the Western Rite done on Mt. Athos?
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2014, 08:13:52 AM »
So I did a google books search and found references to this monastery in Mount Athos: Renewal in Paradise by Graham Speake on page 58.

It was established by Benedictine monks from Amalfi in 985 and endured into 1287.  It even survived the Great Schism.  

My assumption is that because the monastery was founded by Benedictines from Italy that it followed rites and rules of that house.  Of course, I'm no expert.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2014, 08:16:16 AM by Hinterlander »

Offline Alpo

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Re: What was the Western Rite done on Mt. Athos?
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2014, 08:24:38 AM »
Fr. Aidan has wrote sort of history of that monastery. I haven't read it myself though but anyway, here you are:

http://www.allmercifulsavior.com/Liturgy/Amalfion%20Oct%202002.pdf
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Offline Joseph Hazen

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Re: What was the Western Rite done on Mt. Athos?
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2014, 02:58:20 PM »
Thank you both! I hadn't considered it being Benedictine and so probably following the Benedictine use, and the history was very interesting.

Offline Ekdikos

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Re: What was the Western Rite done on Mt. Athos?
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2014, 03:26:40 AM »
Honestly dont know in details. But manuscripts of Liturgy of Saint Peter show hybrid of Byzantine and Roman Liturgies. Taxis (leatnies, readings, censings, enterings) corespond to Liturgies of Chrysostome and St. Basil, but Anaphora and other prayers are that of Roman Liturgy..
They probably used such mixed liturgical type.

Offline Alpo

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Re: What was the Western Rite done on Mt. Athos?
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2014, 08:21:31 AM »
They probably used such mixed liturgical type.

How so? Is there any historical reference about Benedictines using hybrid/Eastern rite?
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Offline Ekdikos

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Re: What was the Western Rite done on Mt. Athos?
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2014, 08:24:39 AM »
They probably used such mixed liturgical type.

How so? Is there any historical reference about Benedictines using hybrid/Eastern rite?
Not, but monks of Amalfion did. There are MSS of Liturgy of Saint Peter.

 http://www.allmercifulsavior.com/Liturgy/Liturgy-Peter.html
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014, 08:32:20 AM by Ekdikos »

Offline Alpo

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Re: What was the Western Rite done on Mt. Athos?
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2014, 08:38:53 AM »
Monk of Amalfion weren't Benedictines?
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Offline Ekdikos

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Re: What was the Western Rite done on Mt. Athos?
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2014, 08:45:29 AM »
Monk of Amalfion weren't Benedictines?
They probably were following rule of St. Benedict, yet, Benedictines had not have their own rite... they used Roman, Ambrosian, Mozarabic and Sarum rites, depending of location. Living side by side with rest of Athonite monks who used Sabaite Typicon of Byzantine rite, such mixture was natural... especialy since monks of Amalfion came to be religiously separated from rest of Benedictines.

Offline Alpo

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Re: What was the Western Rite done on Mt. Athos?
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2014, 09:01:53 AM »
The article contained zero reference to Amalfion. They might have used a hybrid/Western rite but that's just a guess without any historical reference.
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Offline Ekdikos

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Re: What was the Western Rite done on Mt. Athos?
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2014, 09:20:40 AM »
The article contained zero reference to Amalfion. They might have used a hybrid/Western rite but that's just a guess without any historical reference.

Article is translation of text, not study. And what do you think who could brought Roman Canon of Mass on Athos? Serbs, Bulgarians, Georgians? Or Italian monks?

Offline Alpo

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Re: What was the Western Rite done on Mt. Athos?
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2014, 09:46:13 AM »
Yes, it was probably Italians who brought Italian rite to the Holy Mountain. However it doesn't mean that they started incorporating Byzntine elements to their services. It might have been other way around i.e. some monastery adopted Italian elements. Without any historical reference that's as good guess as any.
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Offline Ekdikos

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Re: What was the Western Rite done on Mt. Athos?
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2014, 11:06:43 AM »
Yes, it was probably Italians who brought Italian rite to the Holy Mountain. However it doesn't mean that they started incorporating Byzntine elements to their services. It might have been other way around i.e. some monastery adopted Italian elements. Without any historical reference that's as good guess as any.
Well, it is actually more likely to be like you explained, Canon of Roman Mass is incorporated into taxis shared by two Byzantine Liturgies.
As far as I know, there are sources confirming this Liturgy was used:
 http://books.google.com/books?id=JmFetR5Wqd8C&pg=PA270&dq=st.+euthymios+liturgy+st.+peter&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Av4PUrWtBNPeyQHQwIA4&redir_esc=y

Fact it was translated by Serbian Monks in Old ChurchSlavonic also testify it was used. As Bishop Jerome notes, text even reached Russia. I dont see what missionaries would use it nor where.

Online podkarpatska

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Re: What was the Western Rite done on Mt. Athos?
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2014, 12:56:24 PM »
Yes, it was probably Italians who brought Italian rite to the Holy Mountain. However it doesn't mean that they started incorporating Byzntine elements to their services. It might have been other way around i.e. some monastery adopted Italian elements. Without any historical reference that's as good guess as any.
Well, it is actually more likely to be like you explained, Canon of Roman Mass is incorporated into taxis shared by two Byzantine Liturgies.
As far as I know, there are sources confirming this Liturgy was used:
 http://books.google.com/books?id=JmFetR5Wqd8C&pg=PA270&dq=st.+euthymios+liturgy+st.+peter&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Av4PUrWtBNPeyQHQwIA4&redir_esc=y

Fact it was translated by Serbian Monks in Old ChurchSlavonic also testify it was used. As Bishop Jerome notes, text even reached Russia. I dont see what missionaries would use it nor where.

It should be noted that in the 10th and 11th centuries different understandings of terms used today applied..like "Benedictines" for one.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: What was the Western Rite done on Mt. Athos?
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2014, 01:25:14 PM »
Yes, it was probably Italians who brought Italian rite to the Holy Mountain. However it doesn't mean that they started incorporating Byzntine elements to their services. It might have been other way around i.e. some monastery adopted Italian elements. Without any historical reference that's as good guess as any.

I'm going to side with Ekdikos on this because what he writes matches my own limited reading on the subject. 
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Offline Maria

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Re: What was the Western Rite done on Mt. Athos?
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2014, 01:30:00 PM »
They probably used such mixed liturgical type.

How so? Is there any historical reference about Benedictines using hybrid/Eastern rite?
Not, but monks of Amalfion did. There are MSS of Liturgy of Saint Peter.

 http://www.allmercifulsavior.com/Liturgy/Liturgy-Peter.html


This Liturgy of St. Peter is a beautiful liturgy. Thanks for sharing it.
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Offline Prufrock

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Re: What was the Western Rite done on Mt. Athos?
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2014, 05:18:03 AM »
The link to the Liturgy of St Peter given above doesn't seem to work any more. Here's another link.

http://rwrv.org/files/The-Liturgy-of-St.-Peter-from-Greco-Slavonic-Sources.pdf