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Author Topic: The hate of the New Atheists  (Read 1230 times) Average Rating: 0
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lotharson
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« on: January 24, 2014, 02:02:22 PM »

The New Atheists (also called anti-theists or militant atheists) are a particular group of atheists who advocate the use of emotional bullying, mockery and ridicule towards every religious believer.

I think we have strong grounds for concluding they are a hate group with a far right ideology.


We also have good evidence that they are people who have had a very bad (often traumatic) experience with religious fundamentalists.

Did you yourself had interactions with them?

If so, do you have advice to share about the best way to handle these bigots?


Friendly greetings from Europe.
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« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2014, 02:11:30 PM »

I know a pretty vocal atheist-we used to hang out but never talked religion. Anyways he's also a pretty old fashioned leftist (communist) so that mitigates some of his atheistic  zeal a bit , as today people most likely to respond to socialist propaganda are also some sort of religious believers .
As for the new atheists yes, they are virtually all supporters of the most inhuman varieties of capitalism.
Engage them with mockery, pointing out to the ivory tower it takes to sustain those beliefs. poor people aren't paragons of virtue and ascesis (thank God) but they aren't atheists either, since atheism tends to be a luxury good.
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« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2014, 02:19:50 PM »

I've brought this up before, but you should really check out the findings in the book "Coming Apart" by Charles Murray. One really interesting finding is that church attendance has fallen most dramatically among the lower class in the US (he's looking only at whites). Now, church attendance is not the same as self-reported religious affiliation, but he does show that the stereotype of lower class people being more religious than upper class people is problematic.

EDIT: I should add that not only has lower class church attendance fallen more dramatically since the 1960s, but is also lower in absolute terms than middle or upper class attendance.

http://www.patheos.com/Resources/Additional-Resources/Not-Clinging-to-Religion-Thomas-Kidd-03-22-2012.html
« Last Edit: January 24, 2014, 02:22:57 PM by Jonathan Gress » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2014, 02:26:12 PM »

I've brought this up before, but you should really check out the findings in the book "Coming Apart" by Charles Murray. One really interesting finding is that church attendance has fallen most dramatically among the lower class in the US (he's looking only at whites). Now, church attendance is not the same as self-reported religious affiliation, but he does show that the stereotype of lower class people being more religious than upper class people is problematic.
Yes, going to church regularly has little to do with one's belief in God. I'd never buy books written by self-described libertarians, but I'd pick it up from the dumpster were I to find it there.
The point was that consistent and vocal  atheism is more likely among people that are economically secure/privileged.
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« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2014, 02:28:22 PM »

English is a second language for me, sorry for the misspellings.

Oh my, I had so much bad experience with Atheists, they mock you, insult you, think they are the only smart people on earth, and that you are stupid because you believe in God, and the list goes on and on. Their arrogance make me sick in the stomach. disgusting disgusting arrogance.

I gave up any discussions with Atheists, it is pointless, very pointless. Why talk to people think they are superior, why talk to people who are so hypocrite, mock you, insults you, and they expect you to shut up about it.

Also, they attack you because you use the Bible or Tradition to defend your faith, BUT hey, it is okay for them to use what Dawkins said in his The God Delusion book.

Okay, I better stop, because I have so much bad stories about discussions with Atheists, so I think you got my point.


« Last Edit: January 24, 2014, 02:29:53 PM by Raylight » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2014, 02:30:15 PM »

Remember that politics should only be posted in the Politics subforum.
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« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2014, 02:31:20 PM »

they mock you, insult you, think they are the only smart people on earth, and that you are stupid because you believe in [fill in any position]

Sounds like your average debate on just about everything.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2014, 02:32:06 PM by Cyrillic » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2014, 02:32:01 PM »

Remember that politics should only be posted in the Politics subforum.
I don't think we've veered into politics yet. Just discussing the demographics of atheism.
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« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2014, 02:33:15 PM »

Remember that politics should only be posted in the Politics subforum.
I don't think we've veered into politics yet. Just discussing the demographics of atheism.

It was just a friendly reminder.
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« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2014, 02:34:31 PM »

they mock you, insult you, think they are the only smart people on earth, and that you are stupid because you believe in [fill in any position

Sounds like your average debate on just about everything.

Yep, you got it  Wink
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« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2014, 02:35:12 PM »

I've brought this up before, but you should really check out the findings in the book "Coming Apart" by Charles Murray. One really interesting finding is that church attendance has fallen most dramatically among the lower class in the US (he's looking only at whites). Now, church attendance is not the same as self-reported religious affiliation, but he does show that the stereotype of lower class people being more religious than upper class people is problematic.
Yes, going to church regularly has little to do with one's belief in God. I'd never buy books written by self-described libertarians, but I'd pick it up from the dumpster were I to find it there.
The point was that consistent and vocal  atheism is more likely among people that are economically secure/privileged.

I'm glad that you are so open to reading about opposing viewpoints. Your education has served you well.

But I (partly) agree with the second part. We can distinguish between ideological atheism and practical atheism. Ideological atheism requires a lot of time committed to intellectual inquiry, which you generally only see among more privileged types. But really there is no reason to think of the poor as religious, when they don't attend church or even live by their faith's tenets. The statistics show how misleading self-reported affiliation can be with respect to actual religious behavior.
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« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2014, 03:13:17 PM »

Remember that politics should only be posted in the Politics subforum.

Why did you post this?
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« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2014, 03:14:03 PM »

I know a pretty vocal atheist-we used to hang out but never talked religion. Anyways he's also a pretty old fashioned leftist (communist) so that mitigates some of his atheistic  zeal a bit , as today people most likely to respond to socialist propaganda are also some sort of religious believers .
As for the new atheists yes, they are virtually all supporters of the most inhuman varieties of capitalism.
Engage them with mockery, pointing out to the ivory tower it takes to sustain those beliefs. poor people aren't paragons of virtue and ascesis (thank God) but they aren't atheists either, since atheism tends to be a luxury good.

That's really good stuff augustin.
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« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2014, 03:18:54 PM »

Remember that politics should only be posted in the Politics subforum.
I don't think we've veered into politics yet. Just discussing the demographics of atheism.

 As I said, and Shiny would rip me off, I find it odd that a place that so fetishizes the Greeks could imagine anything human without it.

I guess we remain barbarians in public.
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« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2014, 03:29:28 PM »

Remember that politics should only be posted in the Politics subforum.

Why did you post this?

Aren't you always complaining when threads get moved into Politics?
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« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2014, 03:46:04 PM »

Remember that politics should only be posted in the Politics subforum.

Why did you post this?

Aren't you always complaining when threads get moved into Politics?

I don't think so. If you look at my post history I would wager fewer than 0.001% of my posts are about "Politics" as you call it.

But every post of mine in fact political as is everyone else's here, but I asking why you were posting what you were. So I answered your question, now answer mine.
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« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2014, 04:50:58 PM »

The New Atheists (also called anti-theists or militant atheists) are a particular group of atheists who advocate the use of emotional bullying, mockery and ridicule towards every religious believer.

They do tend to go a bit overboard in their rhetoric... sort of like your own post Wink
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« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2014, 05:02:17 PM »

Atheists also try to tell you what you believe, because, you know, you don't really know what you believe, only unbelievers know.
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« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2014, 05:09:15 PM »

[fill in a random group] also try to tell you what you believe, because, you know, you don't really know what you believe

Sounds like your average debate on just about everything.
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« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2014, 06:07:12 PM »

Atheists also try to tell you what you believe, because, you know, you don't really know what you believe, only unbelievers know.
That is something that always peeves me. How much can somebody respect you as a thinking person if they act like they know what's going on in your own head better than you do? It's like they're calling you stupid and dishonest at the same time.
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« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2014, 06:13:53 PM »

I have a new atheist friend. She doesn't get too bad with me, but with everyone else she does xD I don't know if I am just 'dorable or what.
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« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2014, 06:41:00 PM »

I have a new atheist friend. She doesn't get too bad with me, but with everyone else she does xD I don't know if I am just 'dorable or what.

Lol, I guess so.
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« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2014, 06:47:39 PM »

OK, call me an idiot and keep me that way if you feel kind, but do people actually call themselves "new atheists"?

You got to be kidding.
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« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2014, 07:09:27 PM »

Do people actually call themselves "new atheists"?

It's an exonym, obviously.

In Romania (and only here, as far as I can tell) we call Baptists, Pentecostals and other American brands of Christianity "neoprotestants". They usually don't take kindly to it.
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« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2014, 07:10:11 PM »

OK, call me an idiot and keep me that way if you feel kind, but do people actually call themselves "new atheists"?

You got to be kidding.


In my experience, not really, no. Mostly because nobody's really sure what it means.
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« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2014, 07:45:35 PM »

OK, call me an idiot and keep me that way if you feel kind, but do people actually call themselves "new atheists"?

You got to be kidding.


Some of them call themselves Brights.
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« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2014, 07:59:04 PM »

Do people actually call themselves "new atheists"?

It's an exonym, obviously.

In this world of self branding nothing is obvious to me anymore.
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« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2014, 07:59:55 PM »

OK, call me an idiot and keep me that way if you feel kind, but do people actually call themselves "new atheists"?

You got to be kidding.


Some of them call themselves Brights.

Sounds gay.
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« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2014, 08:22:20 PM »

It's a shame that Hitchens' legacy was hijacked by the whole "New Atheist" thing.
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« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2014, 08:23:55 PM »

It's a shame that Hitchens' legacy was hijacked by the whole "New Atheist" thing.

He was the idiot who allowed it with all his stupid debates with his lessors. His pre-9/11 legacy be remembered.
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« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2014, 08:34:16 PM »

The New Atheists (also called anti-theists or militant atheists) are a particular group of atheists who advocate the use of emotional bullying, mockery and ridicule towards every religious believer.

 Alrighty, let's see just how tough they are;  I say they start the tour in Mecca.

 
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« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2014, 08:44:05 PM »

Except for the 40-odd people who attend St. Bishoy COC here, and one cousin who describes herself as Roman Catholic (I think mostly because she married a Polish guy), basically everyone I know is an atheist or agnostic. None of them describe themselves as "new atheists" (or "brights"...I'd never heard that before right now). These names sound like bad marketing campaigns for philosophical choices. I have to be honest and say I don't know any hateful atheists in real (read: non-internet) life, either. No doubt they're out there, but I must not be doing my job as a Christian from the internet, as I have yet to attract them. Meh. For most of the West, religion seems to be irrelevant no matter what your personal take on it is (to say nothing of the idea of either religion or irreligion as a communal identifier, which is fraught with problems in today's bright and shiny post-everything world). I wouldn't call any kind of atheists a "hate group" because I don't believe in giving people who may indeed wish to do harm to other people for their differing life choices (if this is what the "new atheists" are about; again, I doubt it, but I don't know anyone who describes themselves that way) any more free publicity than their own shouting can muster.

That said, I find people like Dawkins, Hitchens, et. al. (and most of the Christians on the other side of these debates, whose names I don't know because I try not to pay attention to these debates) to be insufferable and tiresome. They're all very smart and/or clever, but not terribly engaging or personable. If it is wrong, as many have said, to pick a president based on who you'd like to have a beer with, then I would have to guess that it's just a wrong to pick an (anti-)spiritual leader based on who has "owned" his opponent in a more consistently patronizing and arrogant fashion. Sadly, that is what passes for dialogue or debate in much of the Western world now, from both Christians and anti-religious people. It's a shame.
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« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2014, 08:48:00 PM »

Sadly, that is what passes for dialogue or debate in much of the Western world now, from both Christians and anti-religious people. It's a shame.

The ones mentioned in the thread so far happen to get the most attention, but I wouldn't say they are the best non-believers to go to for some kind of interesting discussion or understanding of what it's all about. Going to Dawkins and Hitchens to find out what atheists (new or otherwise) think would be like going to Brother Nathanael and F. Schaffer to find out what the Orthodox Church believes.
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« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2014, 08:53:39 PM »

I agree, Asterikos, but society as a whole seems to reward mediocrity with the most attention. I feel the same way whenever one of the infamous debates between Ahmed Deedat and Jimmy Swaggart (or was it Pat Robertson? I don't remember; I try to block them out of my mind) is suggested to me by Youtube after I watch anything Coptic-related...I dunno...perhaps these are the most-watched/listened to kinds of debates because they're the easiest to process, what with broad ideological strokes being drawn by both sides... Undecided
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« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2014, 09:20:57 PM »

Sadly, that is what passes for dialogue or debate in much of the Western world now, from both Christians and anti-religious people. It's a shame.

The ones mentioned in the thread so far happen to get the most attention, but I wouldn't say they are the best non-believers to go to for some kind of interesting discussion or understanding of what it's all about. Going to Dawkins and Hitchens to find out what atheists (new or otherwise) think would be like going to Brother Nathanael and F. Schaffer to find out what the Orthodox Church believes.

Atheism is not a system of dogma. Individual athiests have many different ideologies. What the individual atheist might believe personally on any number of topics is not necessarily indicative of atheism. I know of communist atheists, global warming denying/agreeing atheists, atheists who actually subscribe to homeopathy, ghosts, conspiracy theories and any number of things that one might be sceptical about.
One thing they are all united on is a rejection of belief in any deity. That and that alone is what makes them an atheist.
Some of them are quite aggressive in this denial - just as some theists are aggressive in their belief system. Those who are defensive or aggressive are usually those who have escaped from a bad religious situation and have had to defend their right to disbelief within a religious family setting. Others have taken personal offence at what religions have done throughout history and make it a crusade to convince others that religion is a bad thing. Even if one believes them to be wrong, one can't fault them on the personal convictions that brings them to the conclusion that religion is dangerous. Freedom of speech and all that.    
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« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2014, 09:29:41 PM »

but then again, plenty of x-ians deserve all hate they get. and many times it ain't hate, but a mild form of contempt.
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« Reply #36 on: January 24, 2014, 09:48:35 PM »

but then again, plenty of x-ians deserve all hate they get. and many times it ain't hate, but a mild form of contempt.

Yes, but I wasn't confining my comments to the rejection of the Christian faith. I guess a lot of x-<insert religion here> are particularly anti what they have left behind. Whenever one is converted to a new mindset, hating the previous one and becoming rather outspoken against it, seems to go with the territory. Such are the pitfalls of *enlightenment*. Smiley
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« Reply #37 on: January 24, 2014, 11:01:00 PM »

OK, call me an idiot and keep me that way if you feel kind, but do people actually call themselves "new atheists"?

You got to be kidding.


Some of them call themselves Brights.

They are the intellectuals, the free thinkers, the smarter, the defenders of human rights, and are they are the brights!! What is next ?
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« Reply #38 on: January 24, 2014, 11:58:44 PM »

I've paid less attention over the years to this stuff, but I think it was Daniel Dennett* who remarked that "brights" was supposed to be a positive label for people, not a negative shot at others. In other words, at least as he saw it, it was about embracing a label that could be associated with something positive (reason and learning), rather than a label focused on a negative or non-belief (a-theist, anti-religious, etc.), and it also was not meant to imply that those who disagreed with the brights were "dim".

*I didn't find Dennett's critique of religion and its origin especially helpful, but overall I like him the most of the four most prominent atheists around today. He seems to me, by far, to be the most thoughtful and amicable of the four horsemen of the atheist apocalypse.

...

Anyway, to repost my list...

Where the new non-religious rank on my all-time list of non-religious:

4) Neil deGrasse Tyson
147) Adam Savage
246) James Randi
271) Michael Shermer
294) Daniel Dennett
722) Lawrence Krauss
4532) Victor Stenger
4637) Richard Dawkins
4901) Christopher Hitchens
4987) Dan Barker
10302) Sam Harris

TBD) Stephen Pinker
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« Reply #39 on: January 24, 2014, 11:59:32 PM »

Atheism is not a system of dogma. Individual athiests have many different ideologies. What the individual atheist might believe personally on any number of topics is not necessarily indicative of atheism. I know of communist atheists, global warming denying/agreeing atheists, atheists who actually subscribe to homeopathy, ghosts, conspiracy theories and any number of things that one might be sceptical about. One thing they are all united on is a rejection of belief in any deity. That and that alone is what makes them an atheist.

Next time an argument erupts over this I'm PMing you for some support.  angel
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« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2014, 12:37:28 AM »

Atheism is not a system of dogma. Individual athiests have many different ideologies. What the individual atheist might believe personally on any number of topics is not necessarily indicative of atheism. I know of communist atheists, global warming denying/agreeing atheists, atheists who actually subscribe to homeopathy, ghosts, conspiracy theories and any number of things that one might be sceptical about. One thing they are all united on is a rejection of belief in any deity. That and that alone is what makes them an atheist.

Next time an argument erupts over this I'm PMing you for some support.  angel

 laugh I'm here to help!
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« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2014, 03:55:18 PM »



That said, I find people like Dawkins, Hitchens, et. al. (and most of the Christians on the other side of these debates, whose names I don't know because I try not to pay attention to these debates) to be insufferable and tiresome.
Agreed. They are either ignorant or intentionally dishonest. For example, Dawkins' understanding of Aquinas' Five Ways is entirely deficient. Now, either he just doesn't really know what the arguments are, or he is purposely misrepresenting them for the sake of his cause. In either case, Dawkins is severely undermining his own quest to make us all into "Brights."
There are other atheists who are much more interesting, such Nietzsche or Sartre. While I don't agree with their philosophical positions, I would take the arguments of thinkers such as these two over the New Atheists any day. At least Nietzsche and Sartre present real challenges worthy of response.
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« Reply #42 on: January 25, 2014, 03:57:11 PM »

Papist: I entirely agree.

As I pointed it out in posts (linked above), the New Atheists are a shame and an embarrassment for atheism which has a respectable intellectual tradition.
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« Reply #43 on: January 25, 2014, 04:19:22 PM »

OK, call me an idiot and keep me that way if you feel kind, but do people actually call themselves "new atheists"?

You got to be kidding.


Some of them call themselves Brights.

They are the intellectuals, the free thinkers, the smarter, the defenders of human rights, and are they are the brights!! What is next ?

Don't all adherents of any form of (ir)religion/ideology/whatever believe themselves to be just that?
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« Reply #44 on: January 25, 2014, 06:19:12 PM »

Cyriĺic: probably, but there are different degrees.

The New Atheists are convinced to be right and that they ought to ridicule everyone disagreeing.

It is fair to call them hateful extremists and anyone having interacted with them knows I am not exaggerating.
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« Reply #45 on: January 25, 2014, 06:44:32 PM »

Well the difference is that Christians acknowledge from the start that their dogmas ultimately rest on authority and tradition, which is manifestly not how atheists think of the sources of truth. These "brights" believe they are freethinkers and that they base their truth-claims on reasons and evidence, not authority and tradition. However, I'm sure orthonorm can provide you with the full post-modern, deconstructionist critique of reasons and evidence as guarantors of truth.
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« Reply #46 on: January 25, 2014, 06:49:08 PM »

Cyriĺic: probably, but there are different degrees.

The New Atheists are convinced to be right and that they ought to ridicule everyone disagreeing.

It is fair to call them hateful extremists and anyone having interacted with them knows I am not exaggerating.

If you think the milktoast crowd that are vocal atheists are hateful extremists, you have not yet known hate nor extremity.
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« Reply #47 on: January 25, 2014, 07:04:57 PM »

Cyriĺic: probably, but there are different degrees.

The New Atheists are convinced to be right and that they ought to ridicule everyone disagreeing.

It is fair to call them hateful extremists and anyone having interacted with them knows I am not exaggerating.

If you think the milktoast crowd that are vocal atheists are hateful extremists, you have not yet known hate nor extremity.
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« Reply #48 on: January 26, 2014, 02:28:02 AM »

OK, call me an idiot and keep me that way if you feel kind, but do people actually call themselves "new atheists"?

You got to be kidding.


Some of them call themselves Brights.

They are the intellectuals, the free thinkers, the smarter, the defenders of human rights, and are they are the brights!! What is next ?

Don't all adherents of any form of (ir)religion/ideology/whatever believe themselves to be just that?

I don't. I don't think that I'm smarter/ much better / more intellectual than any other person, I don't even think I'm more moral than other religious people. I think I'm like anyone else, a sinner, who have a battle everyday, to be the best version of myself, and to keep myself away from evil, however, there are day when I fail, and ask God for mercy and wisdom.
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« Reply #49 on: January 26, 2014, 06:37:52 PM »

...Dawkins' understanding of Aquinas' Five Ways is entirely deficient.

Doesn't make any difference either way. Each of these arguments are arguments from ignorance and do nothing to say whether or not Christianity is true. The message of Christianity, contrary to what these lousy apologists claim, is NOT "God created the world," rather, it's "God became man and shattered death."

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« Reply #50 on: January 26, 2014, 07:33:29 PM »

...Dawkins' understanding of Aquinas' Five Ways is entirely deficient.

Doesn't make any difference either way. Each of these arguments are arguments from ignorance and do nothing to say whether or not Christianity is true. The message of Christianity, contrary to what these lousy apologists claim, is NOT "God created the world," rather, it's "God became man and shattered death."


Did I ever claim that proofs for the existence of God would make people into Christians?
Even St. Thomas Aquinas believes that revelation is necessary to make Christians.
My only point is that whether or not one believes that the Five Ways are demonstrative, one should actually know what these proofs are arguing prior to critiquing them.
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« Reply #51 on: January 27, 2014, 12:25:09 AM »

The New Atheists (also called anti-theists or militant atheists) are a particular group of atheists who advocate the use of emotional bullying, mockery and ridicule towards every religious believer.

I think we have strong grounds for concluding they are a hate group with a far right ideology.


We also have good evidence that they are people who have had a very bad (often traumatic) experience with religious fundamentalists.

Did you yourself had interactions with them?

If so, do you have advice to share about the best way to handle these bigots?


Friendly greetings from Europe.

The Athiests have been around this whole time and are plentiful on this forum, and even in chuch. They were referred to in the bible as the Amalek. Thesre are people who believe everything is a coincidence and believe there is no God (an easy indicator is beleif in evolutuon as that throws out the bible and believes in the reasoning of coincidence). They are essentially communists/fascists which are actually of the extreme left not right. Right is free will, left is censorship and policing.

The Amalek are anti free will and as the bible says, enemy of the Jews. They are the eternal enemy of the Jews who will attack every genereation (as God says). For instance trying to get circumscision outlawed a couple years back are the Amalek.

The Amalek today are the Athiests which are essentially rebranded Secular Humanists who believe we are all out of control animals that need the blesseing of their authoritarianism. When religion gets in the way, their aim is to squash them out.

The Athiests can be compared to the SS Army in the Nazi's.

And yes the Rabbi's have identified them geographically where they stem from tribe wise and where they settled and I agree with those countires 100%. And no they arent the arabs. But I wont memtion those source countires because people will likely get angry at me.
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« Reply #52 on: January 27, 2014, 12:25:09 AM »

Papist: I entirely agree.

As I pointed it out in posts (linked above), the New Atheists are a shame and an embarrassment for atheism which has a respectable intellectual tradition.

No they don't. All intillectualist formulas of life are age old as the bible and dominate the worlds population. It's Idolatry no what you call it, no matter the system.

The majority of the earth is idolatrous. They believe in polytheism, inner self, or human logic in place of God. This goes for the majority on earth. Likely a large portion in the church. The bible points this out many times. There will always be a secular idolatrist society. The believers are few amongst many.

There is nothing to be gained from the teachings of athiests and other idolatrers... I spent most of my adult life hanging around them and I still have to fight the urge of self idolatry and continually re-submit to God and admit he only knows.

Actually the bible teaches early on in Genesis that one of Adams grandkids walked closely with God and just vanished. God took him away. Schollars say its because the world was already very corrupt. The early Genesis books were extremely sparse in their writting and need extra fill ins to get the whole picture. The men were grabbing any women they wanted. The more inbreeding leads to genetic mutations that carry on as life comtinually gets shorter.

Tribes seperate, certain features become desireable, and people mate in order to pass along those features which identify them. This can happen VERY quickly. Even those fundemental mormons now have their own traits. This creates a diversity in humans. Prince Charles and the royal family inbred quite a bit and ended up with long jaws, strange noses, tall figures, etc. The scottish have a 40% chance of recessive red hair gene that was desireable in their tribe. Also sun and climate play a huge role. The recently found lost tribes of Isreal in Afirca and they DNA tested the tribe back to the unique Kohanine DNA sequence. In our lives, you will be able to DNA test yourself and see if you are the son of Shem. Its coming day by day. And no Judaism has NOTHING to do with race and tribes. Its about God and his laws. Thats it. Tribal racial issues has been taken way out of context by certain people/groups.

So when man falls we mean this in every sense of the word. The we continually live shorter, we can not obey Gods laws, and we are prone to Idolatry most of all. The wish to be in control and be our own Gods. Why? Becayse we're made in his image and its what we're mandated to do! Orthodoxy promotes free will like Judaism. These are two pease of the same pod. It is also the truth.

Be proud to be Orthodox. Be a light onto the nations and maybe they will see the truth and want to convert.

(Btw the Torah or even Mishna says NOTHING about making Judaism difficult to enter. They are supposed to explain what its about, tell you amcouple of commandments, and then convert you on the spot and set up a date for your circumcision. This Judaism 'exclusivity' thing is recent. Actually, God favors converts more than his own people so converts should never feel unwelcome or we should never imply that we're exclusive or we turn sheeps away over to the wolves.. The Idoltarers.. God does not want this from us).
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« Reply #53 on: January 27, 2014, 12:25:09 AM »


 "God became man and shattered death."


Hmmmm.. I wonder if theres exactly 2 people that agree the same thing on this issue. It seems to be a Christian only problem. It does make us look bad in the eyes of other religions.
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« Reply #54 on: January 29, 2014, 11:30:47 PM »

The New Atheists (also called anti-theists or militant atheists) are a particular group of atheists who advocate the use of emotional bullying, mockery and ridicule towards every religious believer.

I think we have strong grounds for concluding they are a hate group with a far right ideology.


We also have good evidence that they are people who have had a very bad (often traumatic) experience with religious fundamentalists.

Did you yourself had interactions with them?

If so, do you have advice to share about the best way to handle these bigots?


Friendly greetings from Europe.

I believe they work for the anti-Christ mentality.

I have an uncle who is an atheist.  He simply doesn't believe in God and that's that.  But he leaves others alone and lets them believe as they believe - and respects them for their belief.

Then I come across ones who constantly attack Christianity, like some agenda.  It's a HATRED towards the faith.  One said "F_ _ _ Jesus" to me once, and I asked "What did Jesus do to you"?

He had a blank look.
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« Reply #55 on: January 29, 2014, 11:51:46 PM »

I have an uncle who is an atheist.  He simply doesn't believe in God and that's that.  But he leaves others alone and lets them believe as they believe - and respects them for their belief.

This sentiment is common on threads here, and I always find it odd. It's one of the reasons I laughed at the thread title, which can be taken in two different ways--is it speaking of atheists who have hate, or Christians hating the atheists? It's hard to tell, even after reading the entire thread (of course I do not mean "hate" in the strong sense, though apparently some others use it in that way).  But back to the sentiment expressed in the quote. If an atheist thinks that belief in a God, or gods in general, is harming society, why would it be disrespectful to speak up? And why is it wrong for an atheist to discuss a philosophical viewpoint or position that will undoubtedly have a significant impact on their life? If your uncle thought "that's that" and didn't bother people then that's fine--but why do you try to force the same approach onto everyone? Your uncle shows himself to be a better man than you in that regard, and better than me as well.
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« Reply #56 on: January 30, 2014, 12:30:08 AM »

I have an uncle who is an atheist.  He simply doesn't believe in God and that's that.  But he leaves others alone and lets them believe as they believe - and respects them for their belief.

This sentiment is common on threads here, and I always find it odd. It's one of the reasons I laughed at the thread title, which can be taken in two different ways--is it speaking of atheists who have hate, or Christians hating the atheists? It's hard to tell, even after reading the entire thread (of course I do not mean "hate" in the strong sense, though apparently some others use it in that way).  But back to the sentiment expressed in the quote. If an atheist thinks that belief in a God, or gods in general, is harming society, why would it be disrespectful to speak up? And why is it wrong for an atheist to discuss a philosophical viewpoint or position that will undoubtedly have a significant impact on their life? If your uncle thought "that's that" and didn't bother people then that's fine--but why do you try to force the same approach onto everyone? Your uncle shows himself to be a better man than you in that regard, and better than me as well.

Not forcing anybody, I hope that didn't convey.

When an atheists were to say F Jesus, they are insulting something that they believe you hold dear.  It is disrespectful completely.  Basically an Atheist doesn't have to burn a bible or cuss the Lord in order to open a dialog.  They do this to insult.

If they say it for the reasons you cited, such as having a bad impact on society and are open for dialog, then sure if you want to dialog with them, that's fine.   There are a lot of Christians willing to talk and converse with an atheist in a respectful environment.

For my uncle, he just doesn't believe and does not want to talk about it and is not disrespectful.  He merely is silent while others pray before meals at family gatherings etc.   I respect that and disagree with his decision and only pray that he finds his way to Christ.

I am seeing a lot of "hate" from Atheists today.  Many are still respectful, but many are also willing to call Mary a _____ to you face in utter disrespect.
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« Reply #57 on: January 30, 2014, 08:44:22 AM »

They are abusive since they think it makes them brave and rebellious, but they can only get away with it since Christians are so nice. I've not yet heard of one atheist who went up to a Muslim and said "Muhammad is a pig". If I did hear of that, I would respect them a lot more.
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« Reply #58 on: January 30, 2014, 11:33:05 AM »

They are abusive since they think it makes them brave and rebellious, but they can only get away with it since Christians are so nice. I've not yet heard of one atheist who went up to a Muslim and said "Muhammad is a pig". If I did hear of that, I would respect them a lot more.

I heard about one once.  His name was Turd McAtheiotard and he used to comment on I [Fornicating] Love Science on FB all the time.  One day he just disappeared.  Turns out, he went to a mosk and started making piggy noises.  They found his head in a dumpster around the corner.  No one's really sure what happened to his body.  I figure the mozzies fed it to their guard goats or something.
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« Reply #59 on: January 30, 2014, 11:56:33 AM »

Turd McAtheiotard

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« Reply #60 on: January 30, 2014, 06:31:05 PM »

I have an uncle who is an atheist.  He simply doesn't believe in God and that's that.  But he leaves others alone and lets them believe as they believe - and respects them for their belief.

This sentiment is common on threads here, and I always find it odd. It's one of the reasons I laughed at the thread title, which can be taken in two different ways--is it speaking of atheists who have hate, or Christians hating the atheists? It's hard to tell, even after reading the entire thread (of course I do not mean "hate" in the strong sense, though apparently some others use it in that way).  But back to the sentiment expressed in the quote. If an atheist thinks that belief in a God, or gods in general, is harming society, why would it be disrespectful to speak up? And why is it wrong for an atheist to discuss a philosophical viewpoint or position that will undoubtedly have a significant impact on their life? If your uncle thought "that's that" and didn't bother people then that's fine--but why do you try to force the same approach onto everyone? Your uncle shows himself to be a better man than you in that regard, and better than me as well.

I'm amazed youd ask why it's an issue if they voice their opinion against God. It wouldnt be an issue if we dodnt have a public sector and public schools. Then they can say what they want.

My issue is these people are tied to the hip of the goverment and convert our kids away from their faith. Tax dollars fund their 'preachers' and organizations.

You get half of your money taken away to fund their social agendas based on a Secular Humanist religion. These Athiest mouthpeices are like cheerleaders for a society wothout morals. No marriage, rigths for all humanity, death panels, child limits, abolition of family, and of course, govt assigned jobs. We've down this road over and over. Mans logic takes away our free will and makes us into slaves. Only God can take you out of bondage. If you disobey him, you will be back into slavery garunteed.

God does not want humanism, he wants us scatted and split into different tribes with our own rules and customs. The statement of you deciding to give him 'equality' of rights is a statement of Secular Humanism.

Let them have their own country where tolerance and equality prevale, and Christians can have their own country where we go back to biblical laws and courts and finally begin to build and innovate again with free will.
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