Mennonites don't have priests and even some Mennonite ministers would state he has internal issues that are his own responsibility.
Then by all means PLEASE trust the scriptures, not me.
Like Galatians 5.12? ISTM that would kill two birds with one stone.
So you want Matthew and God to castrate themselves? Those authors which would be the agitators of the two scriptures I cited. Are those the "two birds"?
On a serious note, those *really do* exist in the scriptures, and I know everybody knows it. I cite them because there is no way out of it for Eastern Orthodox Christians other than to outright reject them and call on tradition. But they were commands of God.
There are wonderful and beautiful things in Orthodoxy, but there are some wrong things too. If you skip the fact that there were powerful and manipulative men in charge at times and go directly to the commands from God, you can see the errors in practice. It's a dead horse here I know. We'll probably never agree. But who knows?
On to the thread, I think I've made my point. I have weaknesses in glances and small lusts and I hope that some sisters in Christ who find this thread will consider there are probably others like me who would appreciate them helping me not to struggle by being modest. It's their choice though, and my sin is before me.
Can you confess your back flesh fascination to a Mennonite priest given that you're so willing to share this with an Internet forum?
Other Mennonite males may share the same problem with yeshuaisiam. If back flesh fascinations are too powerful to deal with alone, having the support of others is crucial.
A bigger issue is a twisted and unhealthy view of sex and people's bodies. If they were raised to have a healthy view of these things, even with women dressing modestly, they would have fewer issues in this area.
Amen to that.
Following goat kidding season, if I have time, I'm will unearth some Orthodox books and writings on some of you that will show how un-Eastern Orthodox your arguments and beliefs are.
But for now, I'll leave it with scripture (even though I know from users here, that scriptures themselves aren't respected much).
1 Timothy 2:9
Likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire, but with what is proper for women who profess godliness—with good works.
(I don't know the intent of bikini clad women.... oh no I don't. LOL)
Or the women in completely see through clothings and breasts hanging out in the Theophany.http://www.demotix.com/photo/561183/orthodox-epiphany-celebrations-ukraine
Excuses.... Reasons... Yeah I know, keep making them up folks.
No intent at all. Even though women were told to dress modestly in the scriptures.
Oh wait, so many of you say "it is my own sin" and did not even recognize that people can cause others to sin. 1 Corinthians 8: 9But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. 10For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols; 11And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? 12But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. http://www.stanthonysmonastery.org/visitorguide.php
* Orthodox clergy must wear a cassock (raso) in the Monastery and an outer cassock (exoraso) in the services.
* Men must wear long pants and long-sleeved shirts
*Women must wear long skirts, long-sleeved blouses, and scarves. (Please, no pants/slacks (unless worn under skirt), no tight-fitting clothing, no skirts with slits, hats, low-cut blouses, or sheer or small scarves
* Shoes/sandals must be worn with socks at all times. Please do not wear sheer stockings. Please wear practical and comfortable flat shoes while at the Monastery as it is desert terrain and the pathways are of rough flagstone. Please wear flat shoes— No high heels, platform shoes or open-toed sandals.
Okay, so they have this dress code because of _______? Typical thread answer "They don't know her intent". LOL
Loose fitting clothing because of..... ?
Low-cut blouses because of...... ?
NO TIGHT FITTING CLOTHING because of...... ?
You guys need to learn Orthodoxy 101, seriously. Your own monasteries speak to my argument, while some of you try to rip me apart for the very reasons monks post these rules.
Not Isolated, let's try Mt. Athos:
Quote from: http://theorthodoxchurch.info/blog/news/2011/07/should-women-be-allowed-on-holy-mount-athos/
Throughout Christian history, many religious communities of men and women have chosen to live apart to focus their lives on their spiritual mission. The monks’ lives of devotion to God include the practices of scarcity and asceticism as well as virginity, seeking to remove any barriers, including sexual desire
, to their pursuit of spiritual peace and holiness.
So they don't want women to cause them to fall into sexual desire. But the consensus of this thread is "That's not her fault it's your fault and you don't know her intent." So part of the monks banning women, INCLUDES sexual desire on part of the monks!
Do some of you still want to argue?http://www.panagiaprousiotissa.org/dresscode.html
Men are asked to wear long pants and long-sleeved shirts. Women are asked
to wear ankle-length skirts
, long-sleeved shirts, and are to have their heads covered with a veil or scarf. Please DO NOT wear hats (unless over a scarf), shear scarves
, pants (unless under a skirt), shorts, pant-skirts, mini-skirts, sleeveless blouses, short-sleeved shirts, etc. Everyone is asked to wear socks (especially when wearing sandals).
Ah HA, there is a shear scarf mentioned
as I did in my OP.
Here's another link talking about women being turned away from church because of dress codes.... "The monks are only human..." "Chose a life of celibacy..." (Of course it's not her fault or intent right?)http://www.kurskroot.com/orthodox_dress_code.html
So here we have your Eastern Orthdox Brothers in Christ turning away women from their monastery because they don't dress right - because they don't want to LUST for them. Even down to sheer scarves. In the dress codes posted, "sheer" was spelled differently, thus most likely typed out and not a simple copy/paste.
So tell me if I'm so wrong in my argument, why is it that the well versed Eastern Orthodoxy Christians somewhat side with what I'm saying? If I'm wrong then why do the scriptures say we can cause each other to stumble? If I'm wrong why do monks see sheer scarves outside of their dress code? If I'm wrong why do monks see tight clothes (in my OP) as a no-no. If I'm wrong why don't pants conform? If I'm wrong why does a slit in the back of a dress not work for an Orthodox environment in the eyes of Orthodox Christians?
The point is, men stumble, and women can cause them to stumble both with intent or not. A sister in Christ should be concerned about this for her brothers, OR be turned away (as the monasteries do) in the Eastern Orthodox church.
So please, the arguments I'm hearing from many of you are against the scriptures and your own Eastern Orthodox brothers/clergy.
If a woman can be called out and turned back at a monastery (despite HER INTENT) then certainly any man can recognize the depths of his own lust and small things that make him fall. She shows up in a sheer scarf, the monks know they may gawk at it and fall into lust, despite her intent.