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Author Topic: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me  (Read 9733 times) Average Rating: 0
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Mor Ephrem
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« Reply #270 on: January 26, 2014, 12:36:54 AM »

I don't know if there is a difference between arousal and lust.  

Well, here's the problem...

I was wondering when Mor was going to show up.  Cheesy

Now it's a party. Tongue

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« Reply #271 on: January 26, 2014, 12:37:25 AM »

Quote
I'm not blaming the female population either,

WHAT?? So what on earth have you been doing over six pages of thread, Yesh?? Playing hopscotch?

^^ Read above.
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« Reply #272 on: January 26, 2014, 12:39:21 AM »

^^ Read above.

I agree, I think we could all use a drink.  Wink

Too bad it's Saturday night...
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« Reply #273 on: January 26, 2014, 12:39:53 AM »

The problem is that over and over you assert that *all* women wear make-up to get the attention of men, they don't. You also assert that anything short of monastic apparel is dressing for the attention of men, which again is not true.
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« Reply #274 on: January 26, 2014, 12:40:43 AM »

Why are none of your examples ever:


Anya goes to church, dressed nicely, because others will question her if she doesn't dress her best for God.
She has some makeup on, to even her blotchy skin, and to make her look a bit more awake. No lipstick because the deacon will get after anyone who kisses icons with lipstick.

In the process of doing a bow, her skirt pulls tight.

Someone gets distracted by this, despite the fact that once she stands up, her skirt is loose and modest.



I find it -very- telling that ALL of your examples feature the woman doing something wrong first....if its really just about men lusting after anything...
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« Reply #275 on: January 26, 2014, 12:40:58 AM »

Quote
If the glimpse of "back skin under the buttons of a dress" sets you off, then God help you. Truly, God help you, because no-one else will.

What is your answer to this, yesh? You keep ignoring it.
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« Reply #276 on: January 26, 2014, 12:41:45 AM »

I don't know if there is a difference between arousal and lust.  

Well, here's the problem...

I was wondering when Mor was going to show up.  Cheesy

Now it's a party. Tongue



Oh, Mor, you disappoint me. Bacardi??  Tongue
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« Reply #277 on: January 26, 2014, 12:42:30 AM »

Well sexual arousal and lust are both of the flesh and are often stimulated between (or singular) of the fleshy senses.   Huh

But some people are aroused by some very non sexual stuff which wouldn't fall under the sexual definition of lust.

YiM,

There's a difference between lust and arousal.  You could argue that there is some "overlap", but there absolutely is a difference between the two.  The inability to discern this difference is a serious problem because it leads to distortions in our understanding of love, the human person, sex, marriage, sin, ascetic struggle, modesty, and a host of other matters.  It may even warp your understanding of God.    

It's the overlap for sure.  Probably just speaking in definition.   Porn = lust, arousal = aroused by spouse but both can be lust and arousal.  I agree there is a difference in ways, but overlapping as well.   There are EO writings on this, and it may have been covered some earlier in the thread.  (babies born in lust, etc.).   I say "don't know" tongue and cheek.
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« Reply #278 on: January 26, 2014, 12:43:17 AM »

I think all the women you use an example of being inappropriate are dressed just fine.




For me this would represent young women dressed fairly conservatively.  The one on the left and center seem to be attempting modesty.  The one on the right, covers her head and neck, but leaves a low cut shirt exposed.   Does this make sense?   The other two however, appear to have rather tight clothing, would this cause distraction to any other guys here?   The color of head covering can even cause distraction.   Would these girls compete with head coverings, clothes, etc., with their sisters in Christ?  Do they want to stand out?

Next:


Would this outfit cause you distraction men?  Semi-tight and see through holes on the sleeves?  Though conservative, there is a lot of neck showing.  NO not low cut.  But would it cause you to be distracted in church?

Next:

Would this nun cause you to fall like any of the others?  She is younger, yet her garments would remind me of her place.  She isn't in stylish clothes for distraction and modestly dressed.   Even if you began to slightly fall and just her face causes you to lust, would you not get a "spiritual smack" upside the head by her garments?  She's not competing with her sisters either in clothes.  She's not trying to stand out either.


Next:

Is a black lace veil that matches an outfit and worn this way being used to "enhance" her beauty?  Note the "bling" on the veil, and that it matches the lace on the low cut bust area.  Would this be distracting for you men?  Women do you see this as a submission to God and for modesty, or to give an accessory to an outfit?  (Not judging to young lady, I respect she even covers)


All I can observe from all of this is that if a standard head covering and conservative clothing (similar to nun), that much distraction and competition can occur.

These are some of the arguments I've made in the past on the way Mennonites dress, as it is not for self gain, is not worldly, is not fashionable.  However, most grow to be "family women".


Old order Orthodox are fairly similar.   THERE WERE NOT ANY GOOD PHOTO EXAMPLES.  This is the best I could find.


The way they wear their veils is not for self gain.  The dress seems plain enough.

I do not judge these women.  I believe they are trying.  But I do not think that many women understand how much they can make a brother fall, even if in small ways.  I absolutely can't believe the bikini girls next to the bishops though DURING services (probably Theophany).  I'll spare you those photos.  Every man in that church was probably falling, including the clergy.

So that's my opinion on the matter.  I believe women should consider that men fall on very little things and also that the scriptures AND in most of the tradition of the EO church is about covering and modesty.




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« Reply #279 on: January 26, 2014, 12:46:03 AM »

I don't agree that distraction = sin, to be honest.

Sin is broken communion with God and neighbor. So distraction is sin.  

Pretty much everything is sin, so just go with x is sinful, if you are unsure.
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« Reply #280 on: January 26, 2014, 12:48:57 AM »

Quote
If the glimpse of "back skin under the buttons of a dress" sets you off, then God help you. Truly, God help you, because no-one else will.

What is your answer to this, yesh? You keep ignoring it.

"Sets me off" was their words.  

Which saint was it that said that our sins are greater than all the sands of the ocean and stars of the sky?  Of course this is impossible, but we do have a lot of sins.

See this thread has turned into:

I say = Small glances, small sins, falls into lust & corrects quickly
Most see = Sets you off, heart beating out of chest, sweat pouring out, staring, etc.

"He that looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart".  

There is a man who said that line above.  One that SHOULD be worshiped in Eastern Orthodoxy, or at least the Eastern Orthodox church I was a part of at one time.

If we consider a sneak peak at cleavage to be nothing, then we need to consider why we looked.  It was because we lusted for that sneak peak.
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« Reply #281 on: January 26, 2014, 12:56:03 AM »

Oh, Mor, you disappoint me. Bacardi??  Tongue

We have a history.  Tongue
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« Reply #282 on: January 26, 2014, 12:56:19 AM »

I think all the women you use an example of being inappropriate are dressed just fine.

I think you need to re-read what I posted, you are demonizing what I said totally.  I said that "It is my weakness" and I do not judge them.  I was hoping to make some women aware at how easily weak men like myself can fall.

Typical OC.net, the thread turned into bikinis, LGBT, and masturbation.

I was hoping to shed light on my struggle, and the fact that many men may struggle with the same thing.

If a woman however INTENDS to draw attention to herself (to cause lust) for a man, then she is also guilty of causing one to fall.

Women most often KNOW how to dress in attractive manners that will draw attraction.  It is not for me to judge their intent but to recognize my own weakness.

All I was trying to do was shed light on the subject.  

So should a woman dress in a quilt because of me?  No.  
Should a sister in Christ be concerned for weak brothers?  I hope so.



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« Reply #283 on: January 26, 2014, 12:56:31 AM »

Here are your words, as posted in reply #187 on page 5:
Quote
You catch yourself looking and being physically attracted and stop.  
You notice some back flesh under the buttons on her dress -----get back to focus.
Fast glances that "just happen".

What on earth are you doing, noticing things like this? I'll say it again: You need help, yesh. Lots of it.
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« Reply #284 on: January 26, 2014, 12:56:59 AM »

Quote
If the glimpse of "back skin under the buttons of a dress" sets you off, then God help you. Truly, God help you, because no-one else will.

What is your answer to this, yesh? You keep ignoring it.

"Sets me off" was their words.  

Which saint was it that said that our sins are greater than all the sands of the ocean and stars of the sky?  Of course this is impossible, but we do have a lot of sins.

See this thread has turned into:

I say = Small glances, small sins, falls into lust & corrects quickly
Most see = Sets you off, heart beating out of chest, sweat pouring out, staring, etc.

"He that looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart".  

There is a man who said that line above.  One that SHOULD be worshiped in Eastern Orthodoxy, or at least the Eastern Orthodox church I was a part of at one time.

If we consider a sneak peak at cleavage to be nothing, then we need to consider why we looked.  It was because we lusted for that sneak peak.

Maybe because not every single man is seeing things as the same 'sneak peek' that you are.  Maybe they just see their friend's sister, who is late for church and he then smiles at her when she looks around embarrassed to be late, without registering that her blouse isn't a turtleneck.

I find it interesting that you admit you have a problem in this area....but you can't  then take it to the logical step that

'Perhaps almost none of these women are intending or out to tempt me, since I know I have this issue'
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« Reply #285 on: January 26, 2014, 12:58:22 AM »

Quote
Typical OC.net, the thread turned into bikinis,

Ahem. It was you, yesh, who brought up the matter of women in bikinis at Theophany celebrations, complete with links to pictures.  

Spare us your hypocrisy. Angry
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« Reply #286 on: January 26, 2014, 12:58:34 AM »

Could you explain why it is OK in your view that the Mennonite women aren't covering their necks, but it is a bad thing when the non-Mennonites do it? The one woman in the white long sleeve shirt is dressed very conservatively. She is also really very beautiful. I think her beauty is far more distracting than the tiny holes in her sleeves.
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« Reply #287 on: January 26, 2014, 01:00:12 AM »

Why are none of your examples ever:


Anya goes to church, dressed nicely, because others will question her if she doesn't dress her best for God.
She has some makeup on, to even her blotchy skin, and to make her look a bit more awake. No lipstick because the deacon will get after anyone who kisses icons with lipstick.

In the process of doing a bow, her skirt pulls tight.

Someone gets distracted by this, despite the fact that once she stands up, her skirt is loose and modest.
I find it -very- telling that ALL of your examples feature the woman doing something wrong first....if its really just about men lusting after anything...

Because what did Anya really do wrong if a man looked at her when she didn't intend on causing lust?  

There are many women that don't try to draw attention to themselves or cause man to lust for her and get lusted after anyway.  That's not her fault.
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« Reply #288 on: January 26, 2014, 01:01:26 AM »

Quote
Typical OC.net, the thread turned into bikinis,

Ahem. It was you, yesh, who brought up the matter of women in bikinis at Theophany celebrations, complete with links to pictures.  

Spare us your hypocrisy. Angry

I spared the pictures until requested by Mor, and linked by Maria.
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« Reply #289 on: January 26, 2014, 01:02:34 AM »

The one woman in the white long sleeve shirt is dressed very conservatively. She is also really very beautiful. I think her beauty is far more distracting than the tiny holes in her sleeves.

I agree! 

If church looked more like this, things would be better:

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« Reply #290 on: January 26, 2014, 01:02:54 AM »

Quote
Typical OC.net, the thread turned into bikinis,

Ahem. It was you, yesh, who brought up the matter of women in bikinis at Theophany celebrations, complete with links to pictures.  

Spare us your hypocrisy. Angry

I spared the pictures until requested by Mor, and linked by Maria.

You were still the one who first raised the matter. You can't wriggle your way out of it.
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« Reply #291 on: January 26, 2014, 01:03:01 AM »

Quote
If the glimpse of "back skin under the buttons of a dress" sets you off, then God help you. Truly, God help you, because no-one else will.

What is your answer to this, yesh? You keep ignoring it.

"Sets me off" was their words.  

Which saint was it that said that our sins are greater than all the sands of the ocean and stars of the sky?  Of course this is impossible, but we do have a lot of sins.

See this thread has turned into:

I say = Small glances, small sins, falls into lust & corrects quickly
Most see = Sets you off, heart beating out of chest, sweat pouring out, staring, etc.

"He that looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart".  

There is a man who said that line above.  One that SHOULD be worshiped in Eastern Orthodoxy, or at least the Eastern Orthodox church I was a part of at one time.

If we consider a sneak peak at cleavage to be nothing, then we need to consider why we looked.  It was because we lusted for that sneak peak.

Maybe because not every single man is seeing things as the same 'sneak peek' that you are.  Maybe they just see their friend's sister, who is late for church and he then smiles at her when she looks around embarrassed to be late, without registering that her blouse isn't a turtleneck.

I find it interesting that you admit you have a problem in this area....but you can't  then take it to the logical step that

'Perhaps almost none of these women are intending or out to tempt me, since I know I have this issue'

It's my weakness.

I find it's interesting that you don't believe women try to draw attention to themselves either, even at church.
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« Reply #292 on: January 26, 2014, 01:03:45 AM »

Quote
Typical OC.net, the thread turned into bikinis,

Ahem. It was you, yesh, who brought up the matter of women in bikinis at Theophany celebrations, complete with links to pictures.  

Spare us your hypocrisy. Angry

I spared the pictures until requested by Mor, and linked by Maria.

You were still the one who first raised the matter. You can't wriggle your way out of it.

Actually I can.

I said it was a spinoff of the Faith issues thread to begin with, and started with a quote from there. Tongue  bikinis mentioned there.

Yes, it's a wriggle.  LOL
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« Reply #293 on: January 26, 2014, 01:05:54 AM »

Quote
If the glimpse of "back skin under the buttons of a dress" sets you off, then God help you. Truly, God help you, because no-one else will.

What is your answer to this, yesh? You keep ignoring it.

"Sets me off" was their words.  

Which saint was it that said that our sins are greater than all the sands of the ocean and stars of the sky?  Of course this is impossible, but we do have a lot of sins.

See this thread has turned into:

I say = Small glances, small sins, falls into lust & corrects quickly
Most see = Sets you off, heart beating out of chest, sweat pouring out, staring, etc.

"He that looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart".  

There is a man who said that line above.  One that SHOULD be worshiped in Eastern Orthodoxy, or at least the Eastern Orthodox church I was a part of at one time.

If we consider a sneak peak at cleavage to be nothing, then we need to consider why we looked.  It was because we lusted for that sneak peak.

Maybe because not every single man is seeing things as the same 'sneak peek' that you are.  Maybe they just see their friend's sister, who is late for church and he then smiles at her when she looks around embarrassed to be late, without registering that her blouse isn't a turtleneck.

I find it interesting that you admit you have a problem in this area....but you can't  then take it to the logical step that

'Perhaps almost none of these women are intending or out to tempt me, since I know I have this issue'

It's my weakness.

I find it's interesting that you don't believe women try to draw attention to themselves either, even at church.

Now now...I never said that.  You are assuming that I mean to imply that. 

My point is that is that if it 'your weakness', then quit giving examples of all the ways the women are 'drawing attention' and instead just admit that no matter what they do, your attention is drawn.

You admit this 'weakness' and then proceed to shift a good portion of the blame onto others.

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« Reply #294 on: January 26, 2014, 01:06:12 AM »

Here are your words, as posted in reply #187 on page 5:
Quote
You catch yourself looking and being physically attracted and stop.  
You notice some back flesh under the buttons on her dress -----get back to focus.
Fast glances that "just happen".

What on earth are you doing, noticing things like this? I'll say it again: You need help, yesh. Lots of it.

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« Reply #295 on: January 26, 2014, 01:06:41 AM »

The one woman in the white long sleeve shirt is dressed very conservatively. She is also really very beautiful. I think her beauty is far more distracting than the tiny holes in her sleeves.

I agree!  

If church looked more like this, things would be better:



But we would have to outlaw embellishing or blinging out those paper bags. Wink And of course only brown would be allowed. And we would have to have a length requirement.
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« Reply #296 on: January 26, 2014, 01:08:19 AM »

The one woman in the white long sleeve shirt is dressed very conservatively. She is also really very beautiful. I think her beauty is far more distracting than the tiny holes in her sleeves.

I agree!  

If church looked more like this, things would be better:



But we would have to outlaw embellishing or blinging out those paper bags. Wink And of course only brown would be allowed. And we would have to have a length requirement.

Seconded. And no skin of any sort showing, not even hands. Crossing oneself would need to be done under the bag, so as not to inflame the passions.  Tongue
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« Reply #297 on: January 26, 2014, 01:08:33 AM »

I find it's interesting that you don't believe women try to draw attention to themselves either, even at church.

YiM,  

There are women who do this, and women who don't.  There are men who do this, and men who don't.  But how do you judge the intent of someone's heart based purely on observing their exterior with your eyes and your heart?  Why isn't it better to presume that others are better than you?  Your much-boasted "EO monastics" would tell you this before ever getting into the nitty-gritty of fabric and buttons.    
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« Reply #298 on: January 26, 2014, 01:08:51 AM »

Quote
If the glimpse of "back skin under the buttons of a dress" sets you off, then God help you. Truly, God help you, because no-one else will.

What is your answer to this, yesh? You keep ignoring it.

"Sets me off" was their words.  

Which saint was it that said that our sins are greater than all the sands of the ocean and stars of the sky?  Of course this is impossible, but we do have a lot of sins.

See this thread has turned into:

I say = Small glances, small sins, falls into lust & corrects quickly
Most see = Sets you off, heart beating out of chest, sweat pouring out, staring, etc.

"He that looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart".  

There is a man who said that line above.  One that SHOULD be worshiped in Eastern Orthodoxy, or at least the Eastern Orthodox church I was a part of at one time.

If we consider a sneak peak at cleavage to be nothing, then we need to consider why we looked.  It was because we lusted for that sneak peak.

Maybe because not every single man is seeing things as the same 'sneak peek' that you are.  Maybe they just see their friend's sister, who is late for church and he then smiles at her when she looks around embarrassed to be late, without registering that her blouse isn't a turtleneck.

I find it interesting that you admit you have a problem in this area....but you can't  then take it to the logical step that

'Perhaps almost none of these women are intending or out to tempt me, since I know I have this issue'

It's my weakness.

I find it's interesting that you don't believe women try to draw attention to themselves either, even at church.

Now now...I never said that.  You are assuming that I mean to imply that. 

My point is that is that if it 'your weakness', then quit giving examples of all the ways the women are 'drawing attention' and instead just admit that no matter what they do, your attention is drawn.

You admit this 'weakness' and then proceed to shift a good portion of the blame onto others.



No I was baited into that.

It is my weakness on how I would see these women, except for the nun.

I hope this helps you see how some men may look at women.
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« Reply #299 on: January 26, 2014, 01:10:07 AM »

The one woman in the white long sleeve shirt is dressed very conservatively. She is also really very beautiful. I think her beauty is far more distracting than the tiny holes in her sleeves.

I agree!  

If church looked more like this, things would be better:



But we would have to outlaw embellishing or blinging out those paper bags. Wink And of course only brown would be allowed. And we would have to have a length requirement.

Seconded. And no skin of any sort showing, not even hands. Crossing oneself would need to be done under the bag, so as not to inflame the passions.  Tongue

But think of the time saved on dressing for Liturgy....this -could- have the positive side effect of making people a bit earlier....some might even arrive for the Gospel reading!!!!!  Wink
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« Reply #300 on: January 26, 2014, 01:10:42 AM »

Quote
No I was baited into that.

Ever heard of "responsibility for your own actions"?  Angry
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« Reply #301 on: January 26, 2014, 01:10:50 AM »

But we would have to outlaw embellishing or blinging out those paper bags. Wink And of course only brown would be allowed. And we would have to have a length requirement.

I picked that photo because even the bags looked dispassionately grumpy.  There is some really good hesychia going on under those bags.  Trust me.  
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« Reply #302 on: January 26, 2014, 01:11:19 AM »

I find it's interesting that you don't believe women try to draw attention to themselves either, even at church.

YiM,  

There are women who do this, and women who don't.  There are men who do this, and men who don't.  But how do you judge the intent of someone's heart based purely on observing their exterior with your eyes and your heart?  Why isn't it better to presume that others are better than you?  Your much-boasted "EO monastics" would tell you this before ever getting into the nitty-gritty of fabric and buttons.    

You don't judge their intent at all.  That's exactly why in my OP I said "I'm not judging these women, it is my own weakness".

I'm hoping other women will see how weak some men are.   I'm not advocating a mandate or anything. It's my weakness all together.  I hope that sisters in Christ will realize how weak some men are and take that into consideration of their dress.

 Of course threads digress into all the other mumbo jumbo.  Tongue
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« Reply #303 on: January 26, 2014, 01:12:07 AM »

But we would have to outlaw embellishing or blinging out those paper bags. Wink And of course only brown would be allowed. And we would have to have a length requirement.

I picked that photo because even the bags looked dispassionately grumpy.  There is some really good hesychia going on under those bags.  Trust me.  

 laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh (help! was all that laughter a sign of passion?)
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« Reply #304 on: January 26, 2014, 01:12:36 AM »

Of course, we'd need to have some sort of double bagging going on in case one rips. And we would need a dress code underneath too.
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« Reply #305 on: January 26, 2014, 01:13:15 AM »

Yesh- if the entire point of this thread was for you to say "Some ladies intend to dress in a way to provoke men's lust", then I think you went about it terribly. If you had said, "It doesn't take a lot for me to notice, and it's something that I'm working on." I bet no one would have batted an eye. Your OP was extremely critical of modest women, which really gives your whole thread the tone that it is the responsibility of women to dress in burqas lest any man stumble even in "small ways". If this was not your intent, then you didn't communicate it very effectively. It's not fair to say "Typical OC.net" when literally everyone on this thread is apparently misunderstanding you.
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« Reply #306 on: January 26, 2014, 01:14:15 AM »

I find it's interesting that you don't believe women try to draw attention to themselves either, even at church.

YiM,  

There are women who do this, and women who don't.  There are men who do this, and men who don't.  But how do you judge the intent of someone's heart based purely on observing their exterior with your eyes and your heart?  Why isn't it better to presume that others are better than you?  Your much-boasted "EO monastics" would tell you this before ever getting into the nitty-gritty of fabric and buttons.    

You don't judge their intent at all.  That's exactly why in my OP I said "I'm not judging these women, it is my own weakness".

I'm hoping other women will see how weak some men are.   I'm not advocating a mandate or anything. It's my weakness all together.  I hope that sisters in Christ will realize how weak some men are and take that into consideration of their dress.

 Of course threads digress into all the other mumbo jumbo.  Tongue



'I'm not judging, but I think makeup is wrong'

'I'm not judging but look at all those holes in the lacy sleeves!'


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« Reply #307 on: January 26, 2014, 01:15:34 AM »

I find it's interesting that you don't believe women try to draw attention to themselves either, even at church.

YiM,  

There are women who do this, and women who don't.  There are men who do this, and men who don't.  But how do you judge the intent of someone's heart based purely on observing their exterior with your eyes and your heart?  Why isn't it better to presume that others are better than you?  Your much-boasted "EO monastics" would tell you this before ever getting into the nitty-gritty of fabric and buttons.    

You don't judge their intent at all.  That's exactly why in my OP I said "I'm not judging these women, it is my own weakness".

I'm hoping other women will see how weak some men are.   I'm not advocating a mandate or anything. It's my weakness all together.  I hope that sisters in Christ will realize how weak some men are and take that into consideration of their dress.

 Of course threads digress into all the other mumbo jumbo.  Tongue

Nonsense. Throughout this thread you've gone on about knowing the intent of women in how they dress, and you have made no attempt to show any inclination to overcome your "weakness", instead, dumping that responsibility at the feet of the women who "cause" your "failing".

Sorry, it won't wash.
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« Reply #308 on: January 26, 2014, 01:15:48 AM »

You don't judge their intent at all.  That's exactly why in my OP I said "I'm not judging these women, it is my own weakness".

I'm hoping other women will see how weak some men are.   I'm not advocating a mandate or anything. It's my weakness all together.  I hope that sisters in Christ will realize how weak some men are and take that into consideration of their dress.

You could've talked about your own weakness without posting photos of random girls and explaining in painstaking detail how they all were (un)intentionally finding ways of turning you on.  There's a difference between admitting your weakness and putting it on display for all the world to see while you wallow in its filth.  

I'm not judging.  
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« Reply #309 on: January 26, 2014, 01:17:39 AM »

I find it's interesting that you don't believe women try to draw attention to themselves either, even at church.

YiM,  

There are women who do this, and women who don't.  There are men who do this, and men who don't.  But how do you judge the intent of someone's heart based purely on observing their exterior with your eyes and your heart?  Why isn't it better to presume that others are better than you?  Your much-boasted "EO monastics" would tell you this before ever getting into the nitty-gritty of fabric and buttons.    

You don't judge their intent at all.  That's exactly why in my OP I said "I'm not judging these women, it is my own weakness".

I'm hoping other women will see how weak some men are.   I'm not advocating a mandate or anything. It's my weakness all together.  I hope that sisters in Christ will realize how weak some men are and take that into consideration of their dress.

 Of course threads digress into all the other mumbo jumbo.  Tongue


I used to attend beauty school with a woman that worked in a local mental hospital. She cared for a patient literally got drunk off water, and had a compulsion to drink water wherever she could get it. Her temptation to drink water was so strong, that she had to have her access to water limited, and was committed to the asylum. But I don't think all people should bear in mind how tempted that ONE person is by water.

You are posting about tiny holes in sleeves, glimpses of skin under buttons, and seeing neck skin. You are losing most people on this issue.
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« Reply #310 on: January 26, 2014, 01:17:45 AM »

Quote
No I was baited into that.

Ever heard of "responsibility for your own actions"?  Angry

Yes.  

But let's see:
http://www.stnektariosmonastery.org/visitinghours.php

Monastery Dress code:

Visitors must be dressed modestly.
Women must wear long skirts, long-sleeved blouses, and cover their head with a scarf.
Pants, mini-skirts, skin-tight clothing, short sleeves, and low-cut blouses
are unacceptable.
Men must wear long pants and long-sleeved shirts.
Shoes or sandals must be worn with socks at all times - no bare feet permitted.
Orthodox Clergy must wear a Cassock (raso) while at the Monastery.

Okay and there is a specific dress code citing MODESTY first.

So if God is without sin and would not lust after his children, WHO is that dress code for and WHO does it protect, and why?
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« Reply #311 on: January 26, 2014, 01:20:22 AM »

Quote
No I was baited into that.

Ever heard of "responsibility for your own actions"?  Angry

Yes.  

But let's see:
http://www.stnektariosmonastery.org/visitinghours.php

Monastery Dress code:

Visitors must be dressed modestly.
Women must wear long skirts, long-sleeved blouses, and cover their head with a scarf.
Pants, mini-skirts, skin-tight clothing, short sleeves, and low-cut blouses
are unacceptable.
Men must wear long pants and long-sleeved shirts.
Shoes or sandals must be worn with socks at all times - no bare feet permitted.
Orthodox Clergy must wear a Cassock (raso) while at the Monastery.

Okay and there is a specific dress code citing MODESTY first.

So if God is without sin and would not lust after his children, WHO is that dress code for and WHO does it protect, and why?

well except for the fact that pretty much every single one of the pictures you posted WOULD be allowed into in, per those rules....

No one has ever said we shouldn't dress modestly....you keep trying to change your argument back to the 'but they are not dressing how they should'

Quit blaming the 'victims' of your lust issue......

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« Reply #312 on: January 26, 2014, 01:20:43 AM »

You don't judge their intent at all.  That's exactly why in my OP I said "I'm not judging these women, it is my own weakness".

I'm hoping other women will see how weak some men are.   I'm not advocating a mandate or anything. It's my weakness all together.  I hope that sisters in Christ will realize how weak some men are and take that into consideration of their dress.

You could've talked about your own weakness without posting photos of random girls and explaining in painstaking detail how they all were (un)intentionally finding ways of turning you on.  There's a difference between admitting your weakness and putting it on display for all the world to see while you wallow in its filth.  

I'm not judging.  

The world to see... The world doesn't care.  

And if you understood even a concept of ancient Christianity at all, confessing to one another, even in specific detail was a part of it.

Thank you for not judging.
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« Reply #313 on: January 26, 2014, 01:20:49 AM »

That shirt on the woman wearing white, and the three girls with candles you claim are showing too much skin? They are dressed PRECISELY as my daughter's godmother was dressed when she attended boarding school at a monastery.
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« Reply #314 on: January 26, 2014, 01:22:12 AM »

Quote
No I was baited into that.

Ever heard of "responsibility for your own actions"?  Angry

Yes.  

But let's see:
http://www.stnektariosmonastery.org/visitinghours.php

Monastery Dress code:

Visitors must be dressed modestly.
Women must wear long skirts, long-sleeved blouses, and cover their head with a scarf.
Pants, mini-skirts, skin-tight clothing, short sleeves, and low-cut blouses
are unacceptable.
Men must wear long pants and long-sleeved shirts.
Shoes or sandals must be worn with socks at all times - no bare feet permitted.
Orthodox Clergy must wear a Cassock (raso) while at the Monastery.

Okay and there is a specific dress code citing MODESTY first.

So if God is without sin and would not lust after his children, WHO is that dress code for and WHO does it protect, and why?

well except for the fact that pretty much every single one of the pictures you posted WOULD be allowed into in, per those rules....

No one has ever said we shouldn't dress modestly....you keep trying to change your argument back to the 'but they are not dressing how they should'

Quit blaming the 'victims' of your lust issue......


Yes, including the ones with skin tight clothes and pants.   Huh Huh
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