Author Topic: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me  (Read 89411 times)

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Offline SolEX01

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #900 on: June 04, 2014, 12:43:51 AM »
I'll be honest, I find attractive women attractive and unattractive women unattractive.  I don't care what they are wearing. It could be burlap sacks or bikinis, if I see Charlize Theron in a mennonite dress, you can bet my eyes will glance her way well before they look at Rosie O'Donell in a thong.

And you'd see no real figure, no leg shapes, no low neck lines, her hair covered, no jewelry, and no make up.   We can still glance sure - and that is the weakness I spoke of... But as St. Clement of Alexandria stated plainly women can invite men to fall.  I believe they can do it knowingly and unknowingly.  When a man falls, it's his fault.

Though the thread generated a ton of heat and debate (and mostly ridicule), I find it ironic that I'm teaching Eastern Orthodox Christians about their own saints, traditions, and understandings - and they still argued and laughed at what I was typing!  :-[   It's there written in plain history and on monastery "walls".

But TheTrisagion made an interesting point.  We tend to look anyway.   But when is the last time you drooled over a nun vs. Charlize Theoron in a thong?  What would you stare at more?   A nun in her typical clothes she wears in a convent (even a younger adult with a pretty face) or Charlize Theoron (or insert who you are heavily attracted to here)?  

Which would remind you of your faith more?

I for some reason just noticed this thread, so forgive me if I am rehashing what others have said.

I'm not sure your are teaching anyone here about their saints, traditions or understandings.  Modesty is not a novel concept in Christianity.  I think the jarring dissonance here is the fact that it is a man doing the lecturing on it. I was not Mennonite, but I did grow up in a very conservative fundamentalist environment and it would have been unthinkable for a man to lecture a woman on dress.  An older woman would take a younger woman aside and discuss such things, but it would have been very inappropriate for the pastor, or a deacon or elder in the church to tell a woman that she is dressing immodestly. Perhaps in your faith system, such conversations are acceptable, but I've never experienced that personally.  I couldn't imagine my priest taking women aside to discuss such things.  Maybe the presbytera would, but never the priest.

I would probably end up drooling over Charlize Theron because I think she is smoking hot.  If the nun was smoking hot, perhaps I would drool over her, I don't know.  I've never seen a smoking hot nun. In either event, I would try to keep my drooling to a minimum.

In post above though, it was a male EO saint telling women how to dress. 

(by the way this isn't about the Mennonite faith)

If Charlize Theron was a sister in your church, you would hope that a sister would do whatever is in her power to help keep you from drooling.   As Saint Clement stated "invite"...

That's the entire basis of this thread.  Sisters hopefully can be considerate and know the depths of how certain men "glance" or drool.   Sisters in Christ can help their brothers.

How's that Back Flesh support group coming along?  If I could, I'd post Rihanna's fishnet dress - someone else can do that for me.   :angel:

Offline Quinault

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #901 on: June 04, 2014, 04:58:10 AM »
You spoke about back flesh under buttons, not about revealing clothing. You didn't set an amount that was OK under buttons, or an amount that was too much. Sorry, women aren't going to excise their flesh for your comfort. We have flesh under our clothing, deal with it. If you can see that I have skin and are somehow surprised, you have a problem. In case you hadn't noticed, women have flesh on their entire bodies!

Admit it; you look ridiculous for mentioning back flesh, then we can all move on from this thread.

I have never heard of an Orthodox monastery having rules about back-flesh and buttons.

You need to read their rules then.   If you are looking for it to specifically say "back-flesh", you probably won't find it.  But back flesh is revealing, and I doubt the monks would really appreciate a woman coming in with plenty of back flesh showing.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 05:00:22 AM by Quinault »

Offline Quinault

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #902 on: June 04, 2014, 05:13:34 AM »
Can you please explain what you mean by falling in small ways? I honestly don't know what you mean.

Hard to articulate in text.    My opinion on the matter:

My best shot:
You catch yourself looking and being physically attracted and stop.   
You notice some back flesh under the buttons on her dress -----get back to focus.
Fast glances that "just happen".

Falling heavier would be staring and continue to not correct yourself and letting your mind wander a lot, and it goes downhill from there.


Offline LBK

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #903 on: June 04, 2014, 05:44:42 AM »
21 pages later, and Yesh still don't get it .....
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #904 on: June 04, 2014, 08:42:18 AM »
Clearly the best way to resolve this pressing issue is to just skin and flay women.  Without skin, no one will be tempted.  Problem solved.
God bless!

Offline Theophania

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #905 on: June 04, 2014, 08:58:40 AM »
It's common knowledge that you secretly want to be born in early 17th century Russia.  As a serf or a royal, I know not.  Chances are serf.

Offline hecma925

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #906 on: June 04, 2014, 08:59:53 AM »

Men, too, I guess.  All are equal before God's eyes.
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Offline Theophania

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #907 on: June 04, 2014, 09:01:48 AM »
Yesh, I honestly think you hypersexualize everything. How can a tiny bit of flesh that peeks through a buttonhole (really, how big is the buttonhole?) set you off? I think everything must turn you on.
It's common knowledge that you secretly want to be born in early 17th century Russia.  As a serf or a royal, I know not.  Chances are serf.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #908 on: June 04, 2014, 09:11:49 AM »

Men, too, I guess.  All are equal before God's eyes.
Please hecma, if you are going to do a proper skinning, you need to take off the face and feet flesh.  Now you have caused me to stumble. Please be considerate to those of us who have foot fetishes.
God bless!

Offline Theophania

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #909 on: June 04, 2014, 09:18:20 AM »

Men, too, I guess.  All are equal before God's eyes.
Please hecma, if you are going to do a proper skinning, you need to take off the face and feet flesh.  Now you have caused me to stumble. Please be considerate to those of us who have foot fetishes.

That just proves our point even more - anything can be a turn-on. Are women supposed to always have their feet covered as well so their foot fetish brothers in Christ don't stumble? There are people who are attracted to eyes. Godly blindfolds? He just doesn't get. it.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 09:19:00 AM by kelly »
It's common knowledge that you secretly want to be born in early 17th century Russia.  As a serf or a royal, I know not.  Chances are serf.

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #910 on: June 04, 2014, 09:41:16 AM »
Please hecma, if you are going to do a proper skinning, you need to take off the face and feet flesh.  Now you have caused me to stumble. Please be considerate to those of us who have foot fetishes.

Not just faces and feet... but high heels! It's like he's trying to tempt the freaks or something...
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Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #911 on: June 04, 2014, 10:09:52 AM »
And she is -touching- the skinless man, the hussy.

Skinless men everywhere can now imagine themselves in his shoes feet!
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Offline Theophania

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #912 on: June 04, 2014, 10:10:44 AM »
I'm upset that my veiled St. Rachel got no love.
It's common knowledge that you secretly want to be born in early 17th century Russia.  As a serf or a royal, I know not.  Chances are serf.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #913 on: June 04, 2014, 10:11:46 AM »
the internet filter at work blocked your pic. I will have to wait to see it at home.
God bless!

Offline Theophania

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #914 on: June 04, 2014, 10:15:14 AM »
the internet filter at work blocked your pic. I will have to wait to see it at home.

blocked it? she's modestly veiled!
It's common knowledge that you secretly want to be born in early 17th century Russia.  As a serf or a royal, I know not.  Chances are serf.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #915 on: June 04, 2014, 10:23:01 AM »
the internet filter at work blocked your pic. I will have to wait to see it at home.

blocked it? she's modestly veiled!
Tell that to the IT dept.  :-\
God bless!

Offline hecma925

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #916 on: June 04, 2014, 10:38:53 AM »


Wow, gorgeous eyes.  That just...oh, my. ::)

BTW, I was looking at pictures from the "Bodies" exhibit and that stuff freaks me out.
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Offline Theophania

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #917 on: June 04, 2014, 10:42:35 AM »


Wow, gorgeous eyes.  That just...oh, my. ::)

BTW, I was looking at pictures from the "Bodies" exhibit and that stuff freaks me out.

The human body is both fascinating and awful. I would go see that exhibit, but I'm also the type who would enjoy the Mutter Museum, so...
It's common knowledge that you secretly want to be born in early 17th century Russia.  As a serf or a royal, I know not.  Chances are serf.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #918 on: June 04, 2014, 10:43:25 AM »
Hey baby, I like your musculature. What say you to taking this to the next level and get our hypertrophy on?  :-*
God bless!

Offline Theophania

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #919 on: June 04, 2014, 10:49:04 AM »
Hey baby, I like your musculature. What say you to taking this to the next level and get our hypertrophy on?  :-*

I'll have to ask my spiritual father first.
It's common knowledge that you secretly want to be born in early 17th century Russia.  As a serf or a royal, I know not.  Chances are serf.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #920 on: June 04, 2014, 10:51:54 AM »
Hey baby, I like your musculature. What say you to taking this to the next level and get our hypertrophy on?  :-*

I'll have to ask my spiritual father first.
Sorry, you have too much skin.  I saw your picture in the other thread.  There wasn't a piece of exposed muscle on you.  I'm trying to hit on that foxy lady that hecma posted.
God bless!

Offline hecma925

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #921 on: June 04, 2014, 10:59:23 AM »
Hey baby, I like your musculature. What say you to taking this to the next level and get our hypertrophy on?  :-*

I'll have to ask my spiritual father first.
Sorry, you have too much skin.  I saw your picture in the other thread.  There wasn't a piece of exposed muscle on you.  I'm trying to hit on that foxy lady that hecma posted.

She was last seen at the Bodies exhibit hugging on some skinless dude.  Sorry, man.
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Offline Theophania

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #922 on: June 04, 2014, 11:01:28 AM »
Hey baby, I like your musculature. What say you to taking this to the next level and get our hypertrophy on?  :-*

I'll have to ask my spiritual father first.
Sorry, you have too much skin.  I saw your picture in the other thread.  There wasn't a piece of exposed muscle on you.  I'm trying to hit on that foxy lady that hecma posted.

It's common knowledge that you secretly want to be born in early 17th century Russia.  As a serf or a royal, I know not.  Chances are serf.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #923 on: June 04, 2014, 11:10:23 AM »
Sorry, it's not you, it's me.  I mean, it actually is you, or more accurately your skin and all the immodesty that surrounds it.  I guess what I'm saying is... it is all your fault.
God bless!

Offline Theophania

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #924 on: June 04, 2014, 11:12:18 AM »
Sorry, it's not you, it's me.  I mean, it actually is you, or more accurately your skin and all the immodesty that surrounds it.  I guess what I'm saying is... it is all your fault.

I'm a female poster on OC.net. I'm used to being blamed for all men's troubles.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 11:12:27 AM by kelly »
It's common knowledge that you secretly want to be born in early 17th century Russia.  As a serf or a royal, I know not.  Chances are serf.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #925 on: June 04, 2014, 11:17:40 AM »
Sorry, it's not you, it's me.  I mean, it actually is you, or more accurately your skin and all the immodesty that surrounds it.  I guess what I'm saying is... it is all your fault.

I'm a female poster on OC.net. I'm used to being blamed for all men's troubles.
Oh good!  I was afraid that that was going to be awkward.  Thank you for being so understanding. Now that we got that out of the way, lets start thinking about ways that we can encourage fashionable clothing that does NOT have button holes or backflesh.

God bless!

Offline Adela

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #926 on: June 04, 2014, 07:05:46 PM »

Offline Maria

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #927 on: June 04, 2014, 07:10:43 PM »


Smoke mustache and beard.

How unattractive!
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #928 on: June 04, 2014, 11:24:16 PM »
Sorry, it's not you, it's me.  I mean, it actually is you, or more accurately your skin and all the immodesty that surrounds it.  I guess what I'm saying is... it is all your fault.

I'm a female poster on OC.net. I'm used to being blamed for all men's troubles.
Oh good!  I was afraid that that was going to be awkward.  Thank you for being so understanding. Now that we got that out of the way, lets start thinking about ways that we can encourage fashionable clothing that does NOT have button holes or backflesh.



You are basically mocking what EO Saint Clement of Alexandria wrote about.  I mean, if you argue, you are arguing with him.  The dress he cited was not in the exact style, but the same concept as the photo you posted.
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #929 on: June 04, 2014, 11:27:16 PM »

Men, too, I guess.  All are equal before God's eyes.
Please hecma, if you are going to do a proper skinning, you need to take off the face and feet flesh.  Now you have caused me to stumble. Please be considerate to those of us who have foot fetishes.

That just proves our point even more - anything can be a turn-on. Are women supposed to always have their feet covered as well so their foot fetish brothers in Christ don't stumble? There are people who are attracted to eyes. Godly blindfolds? He just doesn't get. it.

Who just doesn't get it, me or St. Clement of Alexandria.  I quoted him to prove a point.  I don't think a lot of you know of the EO faith.  You are arguing the very points the monasteries make that I posted and your own saint!

Every single argument you are making against me on this thread I'm backing up with VERY CREDIBLE sources that EO Christians should respect. 

I am not attacking anybody, but it is mind boggling that somebody would think I am the source of all this after I've posted so many sources.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #930 on: June 04, 2014, 11:29:56 PM »
Sorry, it's not you, it's me.  I mean, it actually is you, or more accurately your skin and all the immodesty that surrounds it.  I guess what I'm saying is... it is all your fault.

I'm a female poster on OC.net. I'm used to being blamed for all men's troubles.
Oh good!  I was afraid that that was going to be awkward.  Thank you for being so understanding. Now that we got that out of the way, lets start thinking about ways that we can encourage fashionable clothing that does NOT have button holes or backflesh.



You are basically mocking what EO Saint Clement of Alexandria wrote about.  I mean, if you argue, you are arguing with him.  The dress he cited was not in the exact style, but the same concept as the photo you posted.

Just to be clear, YiM, your claim is that Clement of Alexandria argued for a form of women's dress which left no part of their bodies exposed at all? 

Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #931 on: June 04, 2014, 11:31:07 PM »
Yesh, I honestly think you hypersexualize everything. How can a tiny bit of flesh that peeks through a buttonhole (really, how big is the buttonhole?) set you off? I think everything must turn you on.

Did you read the quote of the EO saint I put up, or the monastery rules that cite the EXACT type of things I was speaking of?

A glance is far more than a "turn on", and that's what the monasteries and St. Clement of Alexandria wrote about.

I have not seen one contrary EO source that mentions that women are free to dress in low-cut shirts, lots of back flesh & leg showing.

But I've posted many sources now of EO sources stating many of the things I have.  The sad part is - It's like watching EO Christians shoot themselves in the foot while trying to run forward.  It's your own monasteries and saint speaking the same thing I did.

I'm sure I can find many more sources if you guys need it. It's your church and saints!  It's good to know right?
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #932 on: June 04, 2014, 11:34:39 PM »
Sorry, it's not you, it's me.  I mean, it actually is you, or more accurately your skin and all the immodesty that surrounds it.  I guess what I'm saying is... it is all your fault.

I'm a female poster on OC.net. I'm used to being blamed for all men's troubles.
Oh good!  I was afraid that that was going to be awkward.  Thank you for being so understanding. Now that we got that out of the way, lets start thinking about ways that we can encourage fashionable clothing that does NOT have button holes or backflesh.



You are basically mocking what EO Saint Clement of Alexandria wrote about.  I mean, if you argue, you are arguing with him.  The dress he cited was not in the exact style, but the same concept as the photo you posted.

Just to be clear, YiM, your claim is that Clement of Alexandria argued for a form of women's dress which left no part of their bodies exposed at all? 

Mor Ephrem,

To be clear, my claim is that the work of ST. Clement of Alexandria of whom the Eastern Orthodox church reveres as a saint, said the following -

"Woman and man are to go to church decently attired, with natural step, embracing silence, possessing unfeigned love, pure in body, pure in heart, fit to pray to God. Let the woman observe this, further. Let her be entirely covered, unless she happen to be at home. For that style of dress is grave, and protects from being gazed at. And she will never fall, who puts before her eyes modesty, and her shawl; nor will she invite another to fall into sin by uncovering her face. For this is the wish of the Word, since it is becoming for her to pray veiled."

Mor, I'm not trying to argue with anybody, but people are not accepting this is a revered saint considered a "church father" to the Eastern Orthodox.  It is in his own words.  I don't know what else it could mean.  ???
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #933 on: June 04, 2014, 11:37:40 PM »
I have not seen one contrary EO source that mentions that women are free to dress in low-cut shirts, lots of back flesh & leg showing.

I keep reading this and thinking of this:



Quote
But I've posted many sources now of EO sources stating many of the things I have.  The sad part is - It's like watching EO Christians shoot themselves in the foot while trying to run forward.  It's your own monasteries and saint speaking the same thing I did.

I'm sure I can find many more sources if you guys need it. It's your church and saints!  It's good to know right?

It's good to know if you know it well.  You have yet to demonstrate that.  The same EO saints and monasteries which you think support you on this oppose you on much else.  Why cite them as an authority only to reject them as an authority when it suits you? 

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #934 on: June 04, 2014, 11:39:43 PM »
To be clear, my claim is that the work of ST. Clement of Alexandria of whom the Eastern Orthodox church reveres as a saint, said the following -

"Woman and man are to go to church decently attired, with natural step, embracing silence, possessing unfeigned love, pure in body, pure in heart, fit to pray to God. Let the woman observe this, further. Let her be entirely covered, unless she happen to be at home. For that style of dress is grave, and protects from being gazed at. And she will never fall, who puts before her eyes modesty, and her shawl; nor will she invite another to fall into sin by uncovering her face. For this is the wish of the Word, since it is becoming for her to pray veiled."

Provide the citation, please. 

Quote
Mor, I'm not trying to argue with anybody, but people are not accepting this is a revered saint considered a "church father" to the Eastern Orthodox.  It is in his own words.  I don't know what else it could mean.  ???

You are assuming that "entirely covered" means what you think it means.  You have no idea what he's comparing it to, what people wore back then, etc.  You do that a lot. 

Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #935 on: June 04, 2014, 11:49:44 PM »
I have not seen one contrary EO source that mentions that women are free to dress in low-cut shirts, lots of back flesh & leg showing.

I keep reading this and thinking of this:



Quote
But I've posted many sources now of EO sources stating many of the things I have.  The sad part is - It's like watching EO Christians shoot themselves in the foot while trying to run forward.  It's your own monasteries and saint speaking the same thing I did.

I'm sure I can find many more sources if you guys need it. It's your church and saints!  It's good to know right?

It's good to know if you know it well.  You have yet to demonstrate that.  The same EO saints and monasteries which you think support you on this oppose you on much else.  Why cite them as an authority only to reject them as an authority when it suits you? 

Whoa, that digresses the argument at hand.

I also believe the Lord Jesus Christ is my savior and the son of God.  I also believe that St. Clement of Alexandria is a saint, but didn't practice as the Eastern Orthodox Christians.

But it's not me that needs a source.  This is an Orthodox forum generally arguing against its own saint and monasteries.  While they basically "trash" the points I was making as ridiculous, their own church apparently supports it.

It's just ironic to me that while many of my arguments here on the forum come from the scriptures I present to back my argument -(father/master/icons/etc.), tradition is used to counter them.... And when I show tradition, ridicule (basically) is used to counter that.   Since St. Clement of Alexandria should follow in the footsteps of "tradition" (not scripture), and monastery rules follow in "tradition" (monks make the same arguments I did), it's just strange.

So by biblical definition -
A woman is dressed modestly and covers her hair (modest by the author's intent).  Does not wear costly array, braid her hair, etc.

By church tradition -
Quote from St. Clement and Monastery rules "to help men not to fall".

Hopefully I've covered myself and original post(s).
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #936 on: June 04, 2014, 11:56:24 PM »
To be clear, my claim is that the work of ST. Clement of Alexandria of whom the Eastern Orthodox church reveres as a saint, said the following -

"Woman and man are to go to church decently attired, with natural step, embracing silence, possessing unfeigned love, pure in body, pure in heart, fit to pray to God. Let the woman observe this, further. Let her be entirely covered, unless she happen to be at home. For that style of dress is grave, and protects from being gazed at. And she will never fall, who puts before her eyes modesty, and her shawl; nor will she invite another to fall into sin by uncovering her face. For this is the wish of the Word, since it is becoming for her to pray veiled."

Provide the citation, please. 

Quote
Mor, I'm not trying to argue with anybody, but people are not accepting this is a revered saint considered a "church father" to the Eastern Orthodox.  It is in his own words.  I don't know what else it could mean.  ???

You are assuming that "entirely covered" means what you think it means.  You have no idea what he's comparing it to, what people wore back then, etc.  You do that a lot. 

Sure, I used tinyurl to save a long one :)
http://tinyurl.com/lq594zv

You are right that I'm assuming that he mean "entirely covered" meant "entirely covered".  When he speaks of men being invited to fall into sin when a woman uncovers it.

It's an awesome writing, and awesome understanding to read the entire book.

On a personal note, it is not a biblical writing either, but it holds a lot of weight in my opinion.  I do not believe that a woman should cover her face.  It was more of a point that he believed women can invite men to fall into sin.
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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #937 on: June 05, 2014, 12:00:30 AM »
I don't concern myself with what women wear.  That is their business.  I have enough things to worry about without putting that on my plate.
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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #938 on: June 05, 2014, 12:05:02 AM »
Yesh, in the early pages of this thread you posted numerous pictures of young women with hair completely covered, and modestly dressed which would easily pass muster in any Orthodox church. Yet you posted them not as examples of proper modest appearance, but you took issue with such things as "small holes in the sleeves" and lacy headcoverings:


Also, I am going to be fair and NOT post photos of "super models in coverings slothered in make up", but "real women".


For me this would represent young women dressed fairly conservatively.  The one on the left and center seem to be attempting modesty.  The one on the right, covers her head and neck, but leaves a low cut shirt exposed.   Does this make sense?   The other two however, appear to have rather tight clothing, would this cause distraction to any other guys here?   The color of head covering can even cause distraction.   Would these girls compete with head coverings, clothes, etc., with their sisters in Christ?  Do they want to stand out?

Next:


Would this outfit cause you distraction men?  Semi-tight and see through holes on the sleeves?  Though conservative, there is a lot of neck showing.  NO not low cut.  But would it cause you to be distracted in church?

Next:

Is a black lace veil that matches an outfit and worn this way being used to "enhance" her beauty?  Note the "bling" on the veil, and that it matches the lace on the low cut bust area.  Would this be distracting for you men?  Women do you see this as a submission to God and for modesty, or to give an accessory to an outfit?  (Not judging to young lady, I respect she even covers)


In later posts, you spoke of "glimpses of back flesh under buttons".

Face it, Yesh. More than twenty-one pages later, you still are putting all the burden on women, blaming them for your inability and unwillingness to control your thoughts in their presence.
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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #939 on: June 05, 2014, 12:05:24 AM »
Quoting St. Clement (who some argue is not a saint, though I think he is) and referencing monasteries does not establish what you think it does. One writer does not equate to tradition, and monasteries have lots of rules that don't apply in regular parish settings.
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Offline Maria

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #940 on: June 05, 2014, 12:06:52 AM »
Also, I am going to be fair ...


Not fair.
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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #941 on: June 05, 2014, 12:08:31 AM »
Also, I am going to be fair ...


Not fair.

Maria, those words are not mine, but Yesh's.  :police:
« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 12:08:46 AM by LBK »
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #942 on: June 05, 2014, 12:10:27 AM »
Quoting St. Clement (who some argue is not a saint, though I think he is) and referencing monasteries does not establish what you think it does. One writer does not equate to tradition, and monasteries have lots of rules that don't apply in regular parish settings.

I know a lot of young guys who do not like the bossy moms who insist that the young men keep their eyes closed and/or wear horse blinders so that they will not see the short mini dresses, low cleavage, and abundant skin on teenagers who go up to receive Communion dressed like a whore.

It is a shame.

Does anyone know where a young man can obtain HORSE BLINDERS to wear at the Divine liturgy. Maybe we can start a fashion statement.  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #943 on: June 05, 2014, 12:11:18 AM »

Maria, those words are not mine, but Yesh's.  :police:

If you quoted them, they become yours!
« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 12:11:45 AM by Maria »
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

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Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #944 on: June 05, 2014, 12:14:41 AM »
Here are some HORSE BLINDERS for men.
https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=Horse+blinders+for+men&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8



Here is another human blinder:

« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 12:29:12 AM by Maria »
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.