Author Topic: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me  (Read 94056 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,872
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #495 on: January 28, 2014, 01:16:45 AM »
Are they covering their head, cuz I can't see?

The one on the right in the second icon is wearing something on its head.  ;)

Each devil is also wearing a loincloth, which is more what I had in mind. 
I think you can say ~ In the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and post with charitable and prayerful intentions.

Offline ZealousZeal

  • Cosmic Knowledge Fish
  • Section Moderator
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,980
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #496 on: January 28, 2014, 01:18:24 AM »
Some of the attitudes towards breasts around here have crossed over from neurosis to psychosis.

It is for this reason that I recommend such men get fat.  Once you grow a set of your own, there's nothing sexual about them.  

You want your belt to buckle, not your chair.

Offline yeshuaisiam

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,695
  • A pulling horse cannot kick.
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #497 on: January 28, 2014, 01:18:32 AM »
I reiterate:

No, you are using posting here as an excuse to sin by your own admission. There is zero justification for that. You are simply WRONG and are in sin by seeking out photos that cause you to sin. There is no wiggle room out of this. You tied your own noose.

Your computer didn't spontaneously show you these photos. You sought them out when you did an internet search you knew would come up with the photos.

When I go to google, type in  --- Orthodox baptism
click images

And see a woman holding her naked breasts in a frozen body of water - NO I didn't expect that.  Nor the 7 or whatever year old naked child.

So naked children arouse you as well? I am getting confused.

Are we tweens or something? Grow up.  I was very offended.  Poor child.

Offended by what, a naked child? Don't you have kids? I lived with a kid for a long time. I had to touch his penis, anus, all sortsa stuff in order to properly care for him. We showered together when he was younger. It was NBD.

Who is the tween here? You mentioned falling because of women and then mention naked children in the same breath. It is confusing.

Blah, it's offensive.

Poor kid.

Quit twisting stuff up.   Text doesn't have breaths.  Poor kid getting held in front of this whole church butt naked.  I would have been mortified at that child's age.


Look bro, if you want to go to church naked, have naked women at church, and don't think a 7 or whatever year old naked child is wrong, that's your business.  Whatever.

My OP was the point of the thread - backed up with the same concerns of EO monks.
I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com

Offline ZealousZeal

  • Cosmic Knowledge Fish
  • Section Moderator
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,980
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #498 on: January 28, 2014, 01:20:30 AM »
nor the sisters to recognize that they can help their brothers not to fall.

For the millionth time: NO WE CAN'T.
You want your belt to buckle, not your chair.

Offline yeshuaisiam

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,695
  • A pulling horse cannot kick.
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #499 on: January 28, 2014, 01:21:02 AM »
Sin is anything that distracts you from Theosis. Technically I'm sinning by posting on this site when I should be praying or whatever.

By that logic sleeping is sinful. I think we've crossed the line into the ridiculous.

Well, it is Jamesology.  

"Pray without ceasing."

It's biblical.
I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,872
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #500 on: January 28, 2014, 01:21:43 AM »
My OP was the point of the thread - backed up with the same concerns of EO monks.

Reply #438.
I think you can say ~ In the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and post with charitable and prayerful intentions.

Offline ZealousZeal

  • Cosmic Knowledge Fish
  • Section Moderator
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,980
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #501 on: January 28, 2014, 01:21:57 AM »
Sin is anything that distracts you from Theosis. Technically I'm sinning by posting on this site when I should be praying or whatever.

By that logic sleeping is sinful. I think we've crossed the line into the ridiculous.

And yet read of the vigils held by the Saints. And about the prayer of the heart. JamesR isn't so ridiculous.

A topic for another thread, but I don't agree with his definition of sin.
You want your belt to buckle, not your chair.

Offline orthonorm

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,715
  • Ad Aluminum!
  • Faith: DSM 5
  • Jurisdiction: Apostle to the Church of ASD
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #502 on: January 28, 2014, 01:22:16 AM »
And hey, yesh did seek out mennonite counsel, perhaps everyone should back off him a little in light of what he said there:

http://mennodiscuss.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=13859

Offline yeshuaisiam

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,695
  • A pulling horse cannot kick.
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #503 on: January 28, 2014, 01:22:26 AM »
nor the sisters to recognize that they can help their brothers not to fall.

For the millionth time: NO WE CAN'T.

Well the EO monks ask you not to wear sheer veils....
 ::)

They don't want to be tempted.
I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com

Offline orthonorm

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,715
  • Ad Aluminum!
  • Faith: DSM 5
  • Jurisdiction: Apostle to the Church of ASD
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #504 on: January 28, 2014, 01:24:28 AM »
I reiterate:

No, you are using posting here as an excuse to sin by your own admission. There is zero justification for that. You are simply WRONG and are in sin by seeking out photos that cause you to sin. There is no wiggle room out of this. You tied your own noose.

Your computer didn't spontaneously show you these photos. You sought them out when you did an internet search you knew would come up with the photos.

When I go to google, type in  --- Orthodox baptism
click images

And see a woman holding her naked breasts in a frozen body of water - NO I didn't expect that.  Nor the 7 or whatever year old naked child.

So naked children arouse you as well? I am getting confused.

Are we tweens or something? Grow up.  I was very offended.  Poor child.

Offended by what, a naked child? Don't you have kids? I lived with a kid for a long time. I had to touch his penis, anus, all sortsa stuff in order to properly care for him. We showered together when he was younger. It was NBD.

Who is the tween here? You mentioned falling because of women and then mention naked children in the same breath. It is confusing.

Blah, it's offensive.

Poor kid.

So my catering to a child's care which means applying ointment and the like to his penis and anus is offensive? Bathing together is offensive?

Is this just women's work? Or do the kids just change their own diapers in your house?
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 01:26:22 AM by orthonorm »

Offline JamesR

  • The Second Coming of Jason
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,917
  • Remember me?
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #505 on: January 28, 2014, 01:24:50 AM »
Some of the attitudes towards breasts around here have crossed over from neurosis to psychosis.

It is for this reason that I recommend such men get fat.  Once you grow a set of your own, there's nothing sexual about them.  



That's a lot of neckline there  ;)

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,872
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #506 on: January 28, 2014, 01:25:53 AM »
Sin is anything that distracts you from Theosis. Technically I'm sinning by posting on this site when I should be praying or whatever.

By that logic sleeping is sinful. I think we've crossed the line into the ridiculous.

And yet read of the vigils held by the Saints. And about the prayer of the heart. JamesR isn't so ridiculous.

A topic for another thread, but I don't agree with his definition of sin.

James' definition, as it is in the quote above (and just there), isn't so bad.  It's the examples with which I take issue.  
I think you can say ~ In the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and post with charitable and prayerful intentions.

Offline Quinault

  • Did you drink water today?
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,977
  • Resident breeder-8 kids
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #507 on: January 28, 2014, 01:26:34 AM »
And hey, yesh did seek out mennonite counsel, perhaps everyone should back off him a little in light of what he said there:

http://mennodiscuss.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=13859


Why are you posting here YIM? Go post over there about how evil those Orthodox are. Oh wait, they would wonder why you are posting these photos for everyone else to see if you believe it will make them fall.

Offline ZealousZeal

  • Cosmic Knowledge Fish
  • Section Moderator
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,980
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #508 on: January 28, 2014, 01:26:46 AM »
That's a lot of neckline there  ;)

You're right. I apologize. I change my gif to this:

You want your belt to buckle, not your chair.

Offline yeshuaisiam

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,695
  • A pulling horse cannot kick.
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #509 on: January 28, 2014, 01:27:11 AM »
And hey, yesh did seek out mennonite counsel, perhaps everyone should back off him a little in light of what he said there:

http://mennodiscuss.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=13859

You're funny.

Trust me, I don't care about attempts at juvenile cyber bullying.

That's me, read all about it.

But I also found people using the same nickname I have here.  :)

Interesting others would see Yeshua as the son of God's name.

I hope you stay on that forum, and learn about the Mennonite faith.

I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com

Offline yeshuaisiam

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,695
  • A pulling horse cannot kick.
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #510 on: January 28, 2014, 01:28:05 AM »
Some of the attitudes towards breasts around here have crossed over from neurosis to psychosis.

It is for this reason that I recommend such men get fat.  Once you grow a set of your own, there's nothing sexual about them.  



That's a lot of neckline there  ;)

She would not be allowed in an EO monastery.
I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com

Offline JamesR

  • The Second Coming of Jason
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,917
  • Remember me?
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #511 on: January 28, 2014, 01:29:15 AM »
Poor kid getting held in front of this whole church butt naked. I would have been mortified at that child's age.

When I was 7 I used to tie the towel around my neck like a cape after a shower and run around saying I was Batman. I wouldn't have been too mortified. I see my little toddler sister naked all the time when I help her in the bathroom or change her clothing; when she was a baby I had to occasionally apply some type of ointment on her privates when changing her diapers. It's nbd really. Nudity is a daily part of life.

Offline Quinault

  • Did you drink water today?
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,977
  • Resident breeder-8 kids
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #512 on: January 28, 2014, 01:30:09 AM »
Actually, yes she would be allowed in a monastery. As I have stated several times, shirts with that type of neckline were worn by my daughter's godmother when she attended an Orthodox monastic boarding school. And my own children have attended a local monastery with similar shirts, with the addition of a head covering.

Offline orthonorm

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,715
  • Ad Aluminum!
  • Faith: DSM 5
  • Jurisdiction: Apostle to the Church of ASD
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #513 on: January 28, 2014, 01:30:17 AM »
And hey, yesh did seek out mennonite counsel, perhaps everyone should back off him a little in light of what he said there:

http://mennodiscuss.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=13859

You're funny.

Trust me, I don't care about attempts at juvenile cyber bullying.

That's me, read all about it.

But I also found people using the same nickname I have here.  :)

Interesting others would see Yeshua as the son of God's name.

I hope you stay on that forum, and learn about the Mennonite faith.



I was being serious. Cyberbullying? I was suggesting that perhaps your struggle with these issues are more serious and personal than polemical than we are treating them as and thus possibly alienating you further and harming you more than doing good by how this thread is going.

That was my point. Unlike your links, I was looking at the context of your quotes and I see a pained person who I can relate to and hope others do too and perhaps moderate a bit of the tone here even if we disagree as much as we do with you.

That is genuinely my reason for posting that.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 01:30:53 AM by orthonorm »

Offline yeshuaisiam

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,695
  • A pulling horse cannot kick.
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #514 on: January 28, 2014, 01:30:23 AM »
I reiterate:

No, you are using posting here as an excuse to sin by your own admission. There is zero justification for that. You are simply WRONG and are in sin by seeking out photos that cause you to sin. There is no wiggle room out of this. You tied your own noose.

Your computer didn't spontaneously show you these photos. You sought them out when you did an internet search you knew would come up with the photos.

When I go to google, type in  --- Orthodox baptism
click images

And see a woman holding her naked breasts in a frozen body of water - NO I didn't expect that.  Nor the 7 or whatever year old naked child.

So naked children arouse you as well? I am getting confused.

Are we tweens or something? Grow up.  I was very offended.  Poor child.

Offended by what, a naked child? Don't you have kids? I lived with a kid for a long time. I had to touch his penis, anus, all sortsa stuff in order to properly care for him. We showered together when he was younger. It was NBD.

Who is the tween here? You mentioned falling because of women and then mention naked children in the same breath. It is confusing.

Blah, it's offensive.

Poor kid.

So my catering to a child's care which means applying ointment and the like to his penis and anus is offensive? Bathing together is offensive?

Is this just women's work? Or do the kids just change their own diapers in your house?

Naked in church in front of everybody.....  Probably between the ages of 6-8....  Horrible.

Can you please stop.  Seriously grow up.

I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com

Offline ZealousZeal

  • Cosmic Knowledge Fish
  • Section Moderator
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,980
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #515 on: January 28, 2014, 01:30:39 AM »
She would not be allowed in an EO monastery.

So what? Why do you keep bringing that up as if it proves something? That doesn't mean she's immodest.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 01:32:00 AM by ZealousZeal »
You want your belt to buckle, not your chair.

Online Asteriktos

  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 38,110
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #516 on: January 28, 2014, 01:30:43 AM »
She would not be allowed in an EO monastery.

No woman would be allowed to stay with me (let alone sleep with me) at many Orthodox monasteries. That doesn't mean I would try to apply the same rule outside the monastery.

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,872
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #517 on: January 28, 2014, 01:31:46 AM »
She would not be allowed in an EO monastery.

I love how you take the rule for exactly one monastery and presume that everyone has the same exact rule.  I've been to a number of monasteries: each has its own rules, some are less strict than others, and in every one of them I've seen exceptions to their stated rules allowed by the monastery authorities.  
I think you can say ~ In the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and post with charitable and prayerful intentions.

Offline orthonorm

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,715
  • Ad Aluminum!
  • Faith: DSM 5
  • Jurisdiction: Apostle to the Church of ASD
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #518 on: January 28, 2014, 01:32:38 AM »
I reiterate:

No, you are using posting here as an excuse to sin by your own admission. There is zero justification for that. You are simply WRONG and are in sin by seeking out photos that cause you to sin. There is no wiggle room out of this. You tied your own noose.

Your computer didn't spontaneously show you these photos. You sought them out when you did an internet search you knew would come up with the photos.

When I go to google, type in  --- Orthodox baptism
click images

And see a woman holding her naked breasts in a frozen body of water - NO I didn't expect that.  Nor the 7 or whatever year old naked child.

So naked children arouse you as well? I am getting confused.

Are we tweens or something? Grow up.  I was very offended.  Poor child.

Offended by what, a naked child? Don't you have kids? I lived with a kid for a long time. I had to touch his penis, anus, all sortsa stuff in order to properly care for him. We showered together when he was younger. It was NBD.

Who is the tween here? You mentioned falling because of women and then mention naked children in the same breath. It is confusing.

Blah, it's offensive.

Poor kid.

So my catering to a child's care which means applying ointment and the like to his penis and anus is offensive? Bathing together is offensive?

Is this just women's work? Or do the kids just change their own diapers in your house?

Naked in church in front of everybody.....  Probably between the ages of 6-8....  Horrible.

Can you please stop.  Seriously grow up.



You are being unclear. If I talk about raising a kid, you respond with: offensive!

It is unclear.

Offline JamesR

  • The Second Coming of Jason
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,917
  • Remember me?
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #519 on: January 28, 2014, 01:33:22 AM »
She would not be allowed in an EO monastery.

Maybe not, but monks aren't the amazing beacons of the Orthodox faith that people often portray them as. In fact, I imagine that many of them would genuinely deny it as well and wouldn't approve of us using their standards to resolve these types of things.

Many people are monks because they're the weakest sinners and need more intensive care.

Offline LBK

  • No Reporting Allowed
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,603
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #520 on: January 28, 2014, 01:43:10 AM »

"Pray without ceasing."

It's biblical.

Titus 1:15. It's biblical:

To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline yeshuaisiam

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,695
  • A pulling horse cannot kick.
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #521 on: January 28, 2014, 01:43:51 AM »
And hey, yesh did seek out mennonite counsel, perhaps everyone should back off him a little in light of what he said there:

http://mennodiscuss.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=13859

You're funny.

Trust me, I don't care about attempts at juvenile cyber bullying.

That's me, read all about it.

But I also found people using the same nickname I have here.  :)

Interesting others would see Yeshua as the son of God's name.

I hope you stay on that forum, and learn about the Mennonite faith.



I was being serious. Cyberbullying? I was suggesting that perhaps your struggle with these issues are more serious and personal than polemical than we are treating them as and thus possibly alienating you further and harming.

That was my point. Unlike your links, I was looking at the context of your quotes and I see a pained person who I can relate to and hope others do too and perhaps moderate a bit of the tone here even if we disagree as much as we do with you.

That is genuinely my reason for posting that.

Well at the end of the day I'm known as Yeshuaisiam.

I do post things as genuine concerns, but also as side stepped questions to groups of people from positions that I am involved in.  It's complicated.  At times I may appear as a newbie, and other times versed.  I do this in basis to discern truthful and false statements in others in theology.  There have been a lot of mean men in charge, and mucking the muck to try to find truth is a difficult task.

Just like this thread, I completely knew I was going to post the monastery dress code links after being "torn apart", and knew after that that people would "ridicule" an avatar "me" on subjects not in conjunction with the op.  The point being to help people think as they ridicule their own monastics code of dress for the very reason I posted.  The irony runs wild.

I do the same with the Anabaptists, Messianic Jews, and Seventh Day Adventists.

But I'm glad you found it.  

Just like on Mennodiscuss, there are many Mennonites who do not even know their own faith.  Ironically the ones on the board vary, but most come from liberal groups who allow the internet.

I have found other Yeshuaisiam nicknames, which is interesting...

It makes no difference, for me I can vanish at the drop of a coin, pop a proxy, and I'm a new man.  

But I've been respectful to this forums rules to have one nickname.



I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com

Offline yeshuaisiam

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,695
  • A pulling horse cannot kick.
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #522 on: January 28, 2014, 01:45:29 AM »

"Pray without ceasing."

It's biblical.

Titus 1:15. It's biblical:

To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled.

Good point.   I guess let's all get naked and be pure, like Adam and Eve (forget God making them clothes) Let's go nudist, because the monks dress code matters not.
I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com

Offline PeterTheAleut

  • The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 37,280
  • Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #523 on: January 28, 2014, 01:46:12 AM »
if God is without sin and would not lust after his children, WHO is that dress code for and WHO does it protect, and why?

Talking about clothing women in various ways as a form of protection is disgusting.

Yeah it is. That's like cutting someone's ear off to "protect" them from an ear infection or circumcising your son to "protect" him from dirty foreskin when all it takes is 10 seconds in the shower every morning.

But yet nobody has any reason at all for the dress code of the monastery.

It's an argument ender.  It's because the scriptures speak of women being modest, the monastery wants women to be modest, and OC.net people, don't seem so much.

My argument has been twisted and contorted so much.   The women in my OP - I was just sharing my own personal weakness.   It's my own sin.

Sisters and brothers should protect each other though, and if women dress to make men fall that is wrong.  I am not accusing the women in my OP.

However, the bikini women, it goes against scripture.   I don't believe Christ intended his baptism to have women dressed in lewdness diving in after him. 
Nudity ≠ lewdness
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline LBK

  • No Reporting Allowed
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,603
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #524 on: January 28, 2014, 01:47:48 AM »

"Pray without ceasing."

It's biblical.

Titus 1:15. It's biblical:

To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled.

Good point.   I guess let's all get naked and be pure, like Adam and Eve (forget God making them clothes) Let's go nudist, because the monks dress code matters not.

God made clothes for Adam and Eve after they had sinned. Before that, they were pure. Just as a baby or little child is pure. The Orthodox funeral service for a deceased child is quite different from that for other laymen. It is full of references to the purity, blessedness and innocence of these little ones.

Yet you even have a problem with baptismal nakedness for children.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 01:50:33 AM by LBK »
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline PeterTheAleut

  • The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 37,280
  • Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #525 on: January 28, 2014, 01:48:21 AM »
No intent at all.  Even though women were told to dress modestly in the scriptures.

I think a problem here is that "modesty" is subjective and defined by society. People often think that modesty means 19th century or something when in reality what is modest depends on what culture deems modest at the time.
For once, James, I agree with you. :)
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline PeterTheAleut

  • The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 37,280
  • Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #526 on: January 28, 2014, 01:50:26 AM »
That makes perfect sense. They were probably going to immediately wrap her in warm blankets without wasting time to remove freezing water logged layers

And that's why sailors traditionally wore bell bottoms.  To be able to quickly take them off over boots if they fell in the water
And they can be used as a personal flotation device.
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline yeshuaisiam

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,695
  • A pulling horse cannot kick.
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #527 on: January 28, 2014, 01:51:25 AM »
She would not be allowed in an EO monastery.

Maybe not, but monks aren't the amazing beacons of the Orthodox faith that people often portray them as. In fact, I imagine that many of them would genuinely deny it as well and wouldn't approve of us using their standards to resolve these types of things.

Many people are monks because they're the weakest sinners and need more intensive care.

I use their standards because it shows the example of how weak some people are, even to a trivial think like a sheer veil.   Again James, trust me, I ain't drooling.  It's a notice.
I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com

Offline yeshuaisiam

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,695
  • A pulling horse cannot kick.
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #528 on: January 28, 2014, 01:53:12 AM »

"Pray without ceasing."

It's biblical.

Titus 1:15. It's biblical:

To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled.

Good point.   I guess let's all get naked and be pure, like Adam and Eve (forget God making them clothes) Let's go nudist, because the monks dress code matters not.

God made clothes for Adam and Eve after they had sinned. Before that, they were pure. Just as a baby or little child is pure. The Orthodox funeral service for a deceased child is quite different from that for other laymen. It is full of references to the purity, blessedness and innocence of these little ones.

Yet you even have a problem with baptismal nakedness for children.

More digression.

A baby is a baby and doesn't care.

That poor kid in the photo was old enough to be mortified....

Ah nevermind.
I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com

Offline yeshuaisiam

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,695
  • A pulling horse cannot kick.
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #529 on: January 28, 2014, 01:58:32 AM »
Poor kid getting held in front of this whole church butt naked. I would have been mortified at that child's age.

When I was 7 I used to tie the towel around my neck like a cape after a shower and run around saying I was Batman. I wouldn't have been too mortified. I see my little toddler sister naked all the time when I help her in the bathroom or change her clothing; when she was a baby I had to occasionally apply some type of ointment on her privates when changing her diapers. It's nbd really. Nudity is a daily part of life.

Hehe James,

Did you do that at school?

What about in front of your folks church?

As I said, poor kid.
I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com

Offline LBK

  • No Reporting Allowed
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,603
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #530 on: January 28, 2014, 02:01:11 AM »

"Pray without ceasing."

It's biblical.

Titus 1:15. It's biblical:

To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled.

Good point.   I guess let's all get naked and be pure, like Adam and Eve (forget God making them clothes) Let's go nudist, because the monks dress code matters not.

God made clothes for Adam and Eve after they had sinned. Before that, they were pure. Just as a baby or little child is pure. The Orthodox funeral service for a deceased child is quite different from that for other laymen. It is full of references to the purity, blessedness and innocence of these little ones.

Yet you even have a problem with baptismal nakedness for children.

More digression.

A baby is a baby and doesn't care.

That poor kid in the photo was old enough to be mortified....

Ah nevermind.

Deflection? You've been doing it throughout the thread, dumping the burden on women who don't dress to your impossibly scrupulous standards for your "failing".

I'll ask again: what effort are you making in overcoming this "weakness" of yours? Yet to hear an answer from you on that.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • A highly skilled and trained Freudian feminist slut
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,872
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Mercenary Freudianism
  • Jurisdiction: Texas Feminist Coptic
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #531 on: January 28, 2014, 02:06:31 AM »
I think you can say ~ In the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and post with charitable and prayerful intentions.

Offline orthonorm

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,715
  • Ad Aluminum!
  • Faith: DSM 5
  • Jurisdiction: Apostle to the Church of ASD

Offline yeshuaisiam

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,695
  • A pulling horse cannot kick.
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #533 on: January 28, 2014, 02:32:27 AM »
And hey, yesh did seek out mennonite counsel, perhaps everyone should back off him a little in light of what he said there:

http://mennodiscuss.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=13859

You're funny.

Trust me, I don't care about attempts at juvenile cyber bullying.

That's me, read all about it.

But I also found people using the same nickname I have here.  :)

Interesting others would see Yeshua as the son of God's name.

I hope you stay on that forum, and learn about the Mennonite faith.



I was being serious. Cyberbullying? I was suggesting that perhaps your struggle with these issues are more serious and personal than polemical than we are treating them as and thus possibly alienating you further and harming you more than doing good by how this thread is going.

That was my point. Unlike your links, I was looking at the context of your quotes and I see a pained person who I can relate to and hope others do too and perhaps moderate a bit of the tone here even if we disagree as much as we do with you.

That is genuinely my reason for posting that.

One other thing, what alienates me from Orthodox truly - isn't the behavior of others on this forum, nor is it the naked ladies in the Theophany, and it certainly isn't the veiled women in my OP.

It's that the EO will make any excuse to disobey God's commands and sometimes even their own faith if it serves "their purpose".  Somebody with a half a wit of intelligence will one day find these threads and see people compromising their own faith in order to disagree with some quasi Orthodox anomaly.   It's more about being a "part of the church" than any church standard or biblical standard.

This thread is a perfect example of this.  As the ridicule flies of how I know intent of women and how it's "my problem", you will find your own monks in admission to the same exact thing.   It is a slam dunk example of the oddities of the "faithful" not even understanding their own faith nor their brothers in Christ.  I call myself weak, as the EO monks show admission to weakness by their admission to not want to lust.  

So if my arguments are insulted, then you see EO slamming on the monk's own dress code.  Who is alienated from Orthodoxy after all - the one who promotes many monastery's dress codes and consideration of what can cause a man to fall into lust, or those who outright slam it and the concept behind it?

I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com

Offline yeshuaisiam

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,695
  • A pulling horse cannot kick.
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #534 on: January 28, 2014, 02:34:30 AM »

"Pray without ceasing."

It's biblical.

Titus 1:15. It's biblical:

To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled.

Good point.   I guess let's all get naked and be pure, like Adam and Eve (forget God making them clothes) Let's go nudist, because the monks dress code matters not.

God made clothes for Adam and Eve after they had sinned. Before that, they were pure. Just as a baby or little child is pure. The Orthodox funeral service for a deceased child is quite different from that for other laymen. It is full of references to the purity, blessedness and innocence of these little ones.

Yet you even have a problem with baptismal nakedness for children.

More digression.

A baby is a baby and doesn't care.

That poor kid in the photo was old enough to be mortified....

Ah nevermind.

Deflection? You've been doing it throughout the thread, dumping the burden on women who don't dress to your impossibly scrupulous standards for your "failing".

I'll ask again: what effort are you making in overcoming this "weakness" of yours? Yet to hear an answer from you on that.

So why do monks enforce the dress code?  Why do they dump the burden on women who don't dress to "their" impossibly scrupulous standards for them "falling"?

Interesting.
I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com

Offline Quinault

  • Did you drink water today?
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,977
  • Resident breeder-8 kids
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #535 on: January 28, 2014, 02:36:08 AM »
Actually, yes she would be allowed in a monastery. As I have stated several times, shirts with that type of neckline were worn by my daughter's godmother when she attended an Orthodox monastic boarding school. And my own children have attended a local monastery with similar shirts, with the addition of a head covering.

Offline yeshuaisiam

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,695
  • A pulling horse cannot kick.
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #536 on: January 28, 2014, 02:39:15 AM »
OMG what are they doing?!?!

Naked links lead me to fall.

They are humiliating a child.

How'd you like to sit in there with a bunch of guys looking at you?
I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com

Offline Quinault

  • Did you drink water today?
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,977
  • Resident breeder-8 kids
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #537 on: January 28, 2014, 02:43:16 AM »
I don't know how to run my daughter's PC very well. And I am trapped beneath a sleeping baby as well as a sleeping toddler. Otherwise I would go get on my Mac and provide links to pix etc. But if you do image searches for St. Paisius Serbian monastery school, you might be able to pull up some pix of what I have mentioned regarding dress at a monastery.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 02:54:32 AM by Quinault »

Offline Quinault

  • Did you drink water today?
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,977
  • Resident breeder-8 kids
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #538 on: January 28, 2014, 02:46:39 AM »
If you do some google searches for Goldendale Monastery, you might be able to find some more.

Offline yeshuaisiam

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,695
  • A pulling horse cannot kick.
Re: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me
« Reply #539 on: January 28, 2014, 02:50:13 AM »
I don't know how to run my daughter's PC very well. And I am trapped beneath a sleeping baby as well as a sleeping toddler. But if you do searches for St. Paisius Serbian monastery school, you might be able to pull up some pix of what I have mentioned regarding dress at a monastery.

Heh, I'm trapped in a barn with 3 goats in labor and its 29F at 1:07am in Texas.  At least it makes for good fun argument on OC.net.  I'm getting a whopping 10k a second via wifi on a 30dbi parabolic grid antenna shooting back to my house!  My screen has that dim hue to it because its so cold.  The heater is NOT helping!  But been there done that with the babies.  It does sort of stink, but as you know, time flies.... Children indeed are a heritage.... :)

Anyway,
I have dress codes from monasteries, what more can I say?  If they concur with sheer veils causing lust then hey I'm not alone.  Doesn't matter what other monasteries say.  I have 3 links, and can get you a lot more.  Other men suffer the same exact thing who are EO Christians.  Basically that was my point.  They ask sisters to help them not fall, and will refuse them at a monastery.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 02:52:11 AM by yeshuaisiam »
I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com