OrthodoxChristianity.net
July 22, 2014, 07:18:34 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 »   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Head coverings, modesty, and the weakness of me  (Read 9632 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Etsi
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek
Posts: 155


Always reflecting and reforming.


« Reply #45 on: January 23, 2014, 06:57:57 PM »

Kids are having sex at church camps. At least that's what a Serbian friend was saying they were doing.

I can assure you they aren't at Camp Nazareth. At least not while mine were there. What an accusation to make!
« Last Edit: January 23, 2014, 06:59:02 PM by Etsi » Logged
augustin717
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: The other ROC
Posts: 5,618


Teaching on the mountain


« Reply #46 on: January 23, 2014, 07:03:25 PM »

Kids are having sex at church camps. At least that's what a Serbian friend was saying they were doing.

I can assure you they aren't at Camp Nazareth. At least not while mine were there. What an accusation to make!
peace. if it happens, it's not all that bad. i'm not accusing, just reporting what a friend of mine, serbian orthodox, was telling me. i have no reason to question the tales he was humorously telling.  i've never been to a church camp.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2014, 07:03:48 PM by augustin717 » Logged
Etsi
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek
Posts: 155


Always reflecting and reforming.


« Reply #47 on: January 23, 2014, 07:07:09 PM »

Kids are having sex at church camps. At least that's what a Serbian friend was saying they were doing.

I can assure you they aren't at Camp Nazareth. At least not while mine were there. What an accusation to make!
peace. if it happens, it's not all that bad. i'm not accusing, just reporting what a friend of mine, serbian orthodox, was telling me. i have no reason to question the tales he was humorously telling.  i've never been to a church camp.

How is it "not all bad"?  Huh

I've been to church camp (baptist ones) and the most trouble we got up to was sneak out to toss rocks at another cabin, then suffered with nasty head colds the following night due to night air.
Logged
Cognomen
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Phyletism Rules, OK
Posts: 1,968


Ungrateful Biped


« Reply #48 on: January 23, 2014, 07:11:09 PM »


Did you notice the very unhappy, not too sober, expressions on many of Mennonite women in that picture?
What was going on? Have they just finished quarreling? The woman standing in the front (far right side) wearing the very light print dress in turquoise looks like she is being pushed as she is preventing the woman behind her from being seen. Notice the hand touching her on her left arm.


It strikes me as very strange how thoroughly you analyzed this picture and everyone in it, determining levels of happiness, speculating on quarrels, reading into body language, etc.  I think if someone were to scrutinize your comments, they might pass similar judgment about your level of Christian serenity.

Sorry to frequently pick on you, Maria.  I find a great deal in this thread odd.  
Logged

North American Eastern Orthodox Parish Council Delegate for the Canonization of Saints Twin Towers and Pentagon, as well as the Propagation of the Doctrine of the Assumption of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 (NAEOPCDCSTTPPDAMAFM®).
augustin717
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: The other ROC
Posts: 5,618


Teaching on the mountain


« Reply #49 on: January 23, 2014, 07:12:28 PM »

Quote
How is it "not all bad"?

kids have been having sex early for a while now. just statistics. assuming the stuff happens between peers, yes, it's nothing remarkably bad.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2014, 07:12:54 PM by augustin717 » Logged
Etsi
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek
Posts: 155


Always reflecting and reforming.


« Reply #50 on: January 23, 2014, 07:14:28 PM »

Quote
How is it "not all bad"?

kids have been having sex early for a while now. just statistics. assuming the stuff happens between peers, yes, it's nothing remarkably bad.

So you approve? You'd be fine with your thirteen year old daughter having sex with another random kid from thirteen to sixteen at church camp?
Logged
augustin717
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: The other ROC
Posts: 5,618


Teaching on the mountain


« Reply #51 on: January 23, 2014, 07:16:30 PM »

Quote
How is it "not all bad"?

kids have been having sex early for a while now. just statistics. assuming the stuff happens between peers, yes, it's nothing remarkably bad.

So you approve? You'd be fine with your thirteen year old daughter having sex with another random kid from thirteen to sixteen at church camp?
as i see things, i don't think i'd do my utmost to find out.
Logged
Etsi
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek
Posts: 155


Always reflecting and reforming.


« Reply #52 on: January 23, 2014, 07:17:36 PM »

Quote
How is it "not all bad"?

kids have been having sex early for a while now. just statistics. assuming the stuff happens between peers, yes, it's nothing remarkably bad.

So you approve? You'd be fine with your thirteen year old daughter having sex with another random kid from thirteen to sixteen at church camp?
as i see things, i don't think i'd do my utmost to find out.

So you're a pretty hands off parent, eh? Whatever the kid does, the kid can do. Great parenting.
Logged
Maria
Orthodox Christian
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 7,761


O most Holy Theotokos, save us.


« Reply #53 on: January 23, 2014, 07:29:06 PM »


Did you notice the very unhappy, not too sober, expressions on many of Mennonite women in that picture?
What was going on? Have they just finished quarreling? The woman standing in the front (far right side) wearing the very light print dress in turquoise looks like she is being pushed as she is preventing the woman behind her from being seen. Notice the hand touching her on her left arm.


It strikes me as very strange how thoroughly you analyzed this picture and everyone in it, determining levels of happiness, speculating on quarrels, reading into body language, etc.  I think if someone were to scrutinize your comments, they might pass similar judgment about your level of Christian serenity.

Sorry to frequently pick on you, Maria.  I find a great deal in this thread odd.  

If you are truly sorry, why post at all?

Body language, hand gestures, and eye, and head movements were part of my linguistic studies leading to my M.A. I found it fascinating that what we write only communicates part of the message.

If a person were to tell me that they were happy, but their eyes were doing  Roll Eyes and their head was shaking "no" and they had daggers in their eyes along with an unhappy face  Angry, then I would have to assume that they were in fact NOT very happy but for some reason,  they could not truthfully express the full message perhaps because of peer pressure or whatever.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2014, 07:58:29 PM by Maria » Logged

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory to Him forever!
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Online Online

Posts: 15,179


In solidarity with Iraqi and Syrian Nazarenes


WWW
« Reply #54 on: January 23, 2014, 08:20:16 PM »

I can sympathize with the women on this thread.  I have been treated as a sexual object my entire life by women and men alike.  I am just so goshdarn sexy that women swoon and men stare on in jealousy.  I am followed day and night by women who want to stroke my muscles and have even been hit on by President Obama (ew!).  One time I merely mentioned that I wanted to go to the gun show and three women (I think one might have been a ladyboy...he/she/it had that look about him/her/it) ran up and tore my shirt off.  One of them was an octogenarian and died of a heart attack.  The paramedics tried to revive her but then saw my glistening abs and couldn't help but oggle them.  How would you like that on your conscience?  Not only did I cause my brothers, sisters, and that lady boy to stumble, but it even ended up costing one of them their life?  One time I was at the club dancing to some wikked dubstep and a couple who had just gotten married promptly filed for divorce so they could both pursue my affections.  I have tried dressing more modestly but my muscles and gender-designating features are so large they tear through normal fabric so I have had to switch over to wearing full chain mail at church just to get the women folk not to notice me...but now they all ask if I will be their knight in shining armour?

Seriously, what am I to do?  I really wish these people would overcome their temptations and just let me live my life.

Siggy gold!

Sorry, Mor. You've been replaced.  Cheesy

No worries.  I read vamrat's post and wanted to confess publicly that I was attracted back to OCNet from my years' long absence by the scent of his pheromones wafting through the internet.  Truly, who can resist?   
Logged

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


"Mor is a jerk." - kelly
ZealousZeal
Gainsaying Helpmeet
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: ✔
Posts: 2,617



« Reply #55 on: January 23, 2014, 08:34:41 PM »

No worries.  I read vamrat's post and wanted to confess publicly that I was attracted back to OCNet from my years' long absence by the scent of his pheromones wafting through the internet.  Truly, who can resist?   

None, evidently. Tongue
Logged

"For this God is our God forever and ever; He will be our guide, even to the end." Psalm 48:14
yeshuaisiam
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox, Anabaptist, Other Early Christianity kind of jumbled together
Posts: 4,086


A pulling horse cannot kick.


« Reply #56 on: January 23, 2014, 09:14:36 PM »

The American diet has managed to rid me of my weakness.

Anyway, I just gotta say how Islamic of you YiM, placing the moral agency of men on the bodies of women.

Really, your libido ain't that big of a deal.

According to Christ it is. 

It's not a mandate that I'm suggesting, it would be a courtesy for sisters of the church for their brothers.
Logged

I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com
yeshuaisiam
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox, Anabaptist, Other Early Christianity kind of jumbled together
Posts: 4,086


A pulling horse cannot kick.


« Reply #57 on: January 23, 2014, 09:16:26 PM »

I'm sorry, but the pictures here are ridiculous to me. As long as the girl doesn't have really tight clothing or too much skin showing, I'm probably not going to notice. Teenage boys will find a way to be attracted to some bizzare things either way, and I don't think that the women need to be disrespected by scrutinizing every thread of every outfit.

To me this thread makes you come off as having an unhealthy obsession with the women around you.

Mor covered this so to speak before and I added to it, but really the solution to pathological male libidinal issues isn't the removal of women and covering them as much as possible when they are around, but rather in the inclusion of women as much as possible in all aspects of life and allowing them to enjoy whatever modesty they wish.

Otherwise, men go a bit crazy, see boys' locker rooms, construction sites, various religious groups, the 50s, etc.

Then why was this the tradition of the church for so long, and why are almost all women in icons, including the Theotokos shown this way?
Logged

I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com
yeshuaisiam
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox, Anabaptist, Other Early Christianity kind of jumbled together
Posts: 4,086


A pulling horse cannot kick.


« Reply #58 on: January 23, 2014, 09:19:09 PM »

LOL! Take it from someone that has been in a Mennonite community EXACTLY like the ones you posted a picture of (EPMC...it's a particular denomination of Mennonites...one I am VERY familiar with and not looked highly upon, even by other Mennonites). They LOVE fashion! They compete amoungst themselves with their own particular kind of fashion. They rip each other apart over who has too many gathers in their sleeves or kapps and who has few to none. The great debate is skirt length...should it be mid calf or so many inches from the floor? Calf length is high for a tall woman and so many inches from the floor is high for a short woman. Oh, don't forget the hussy that wears a print that is bigger than a quarter and please degrade the person that wears no print as being legalistic.

Sorry, but you are picking apart all the other pictures as much as those Mennonite women pick each other apart.

And I find a major problem with blaming girls for your own failings. You can find someone attractive without stumbling. Any stumbling is your problem. Should Men and Women both dress modestly? Sure. Should either blame the other for any personal stumblings over a person's attire? No. Otherwise, one should lock oneself up.

I am not blaming them.  I think everybody does not understand what I am saying.

It is not something that I believe should be enforced, but something that a sister should voluntarily do for her brother's spiritual struggles.  There are many men who "struggle".

I am not talking about major struggles, but little things that cause the mind to wander.
Logged

I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com
yeshuaisiam
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox, Anabaptist, Other Early Christianity kind of jumbled together
Posts: 4,086


A pulling horse cannot kick.


« Reply #59 on: January 23, 2014, 09:23:36 PM »

Shiny has nothing on you.

Vile.

I really agree. The whole OP is pretty much asking you to judge these girls' lust-inducement factor and whether or not they are too sexual, and it was pretty uncomfortable to read.

It is also insulting to men.

What Yesh has posted does nothing to defend the integrity of the male sex. It only reinforces the idea that males are beholden to what their eyes see, and to the passions that this sight may arouse; therefore, the answer, according to this idea, is that women cover themselves to reduce or eliminate being a temptation to men. Yet, does the covering of the female form truly prevent such temptation? Innumerable cultures, western and eastern, ancient and modern, insisted on modest dress for women. Yet, men have continued to lust after women, and even commit sexual assaults and rape on them, even in cultures where the burkha and niqab is mandatory.

Yesh's argument fails in another regard as well: Men and boys are entirely capable of interacting with, and living with, and working with, women and girls, with no shred of sexual distraction. Fathers, brothers and male relatives see their familial females as sexually neutral: anything else has, since time immemorial, been regarded as a monstrous aberration (apart from, perhaps, Egyptian Pharaonic royalty). Therefore, if males are capable, not out of primeval biological instinct (which demeans the male sex as slaves to their eyes and hormones), but out of rational action, of not regarding their female family as sexually distracting, what's to stop them from doing so with other females to whom they are not related?

If my sister was 20-30 and would generally be found attractive, you are right, I would not be attracted to her.

If there was an attractive 20-30 year old nearby, I do have to will not to glance.

Guys please understand, I'm not talking about salivating and drooling on the floor.  I'm talking about glances, observances, and small split second thoughts of where the mind can wander.
Logged

I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com
yeshuaisiam
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox, Anabaptist, Other Early Christianity kind of jumbled together
Posts: 4,086


A pulling horse cannot kick.


« Reply #60 on: January 23, 2014, 09:25:00 PM »

Shiny has nothing on you.

Vile.

I really agree. The whole OP is pretty much asking you to judge these girls' lust-inducement factor and whether or not they are too sexual, and it was pretty uncomfortable to read.

Welcome to being a man. TBF to YIM and a point Shiny was trying to make is how sick most guys are really here and pretty much everywhere.

Being a man who isn't sick in this manner, I have to listen to such stuff a lot, especially when I was younger and didn't know how to steer out of such talk. I don't care for girl talk much, whether it be from straight guys, gay guys, or women. For better and worse I had childhood that predisposed me to protecting the intimacy of others, so locker room talk or its inverse, the moralizing talk about women, has never sat well with me.

Then I'm glad you don't struggle with it.  But your brothers in Christ may.
Logged

I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Online Online

Posts: 15,179


In solidarity with Iraqi and Syrian Nazarenes


WWW
« Reply #61 on: January 23, 2014, 09:28:08 PM »

Guys please understand, I'm not talking about salivating and drooling on the floor.  I'm talking about glances, observances, and small split second thoughts of where the mind can wander.

OK, but where do you get the idea that this is what Christ is targeting in his preaching?  "Split second thoughts" where the mind "can wander" but doesn't have to? 
Logged

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


"Mor is a jerk." - kelly
Maria
Orthodox Christian
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 7,761


O most Holy Theotokos, save us.


« Reply #62 on: January 23, 2014, 09:29:04 PM »

Shiny has nothing on you.

Vile.

I really agree. The whole OP is pretty much asking you to judge these girls' lust-inducement factor and whether or not they are too sexual, and it was pretty uncomfortable to read.

It is also insulting to men.

What Yesh has posted does nothing to defend the integrity of the male sex. It only reinforces the idea that males are beholden to what their eyes see, and to the passions that this sight may arouse; therefore, the answer, according to this idea, is that women cover themselves to reduce or eliminate being a temptation to men. Yet, does the covering of the female form truly prevent such temptation? Innumerable cultures, western and eastern, ancient and modern, insisted on modest dress for women. Yet, men have continued to lust after women, and even commit sexual assaults and rape on them, even in cultures where the burkha and niqab is mandatory.

Yesh's argument fails in another regard as well: Men and boys are entirely capable of interacting with, and living with, and working with, women and girls, with no shred of sexual distraction. Fathers, brothers and male relatives see their familial females as sexually neutral: anything else has, since time immemorial, been regarded as a monstrous aberration (apart from, perhaps, Egyptian Pharaonic royalty). Therefore, if males are capable, not out of primeval biological instinct (which demeans the male sex as slaves to their eyes and hormones), but out of rational action, of not regarding their female family as sexually distracting, what's to stop them from doing so with other females to whom they are not related?

If my sister was 20-30 and would generally be found attractive, you are right, I would not be attracted to her.

If there was an attractive 20-30 year old nearby, I do have to will not to glance.

Guys please understand, I'm not talking about salivating and drooling on the floor.  I'm talking about glances, observances, and small split second thoughts of where the mind can wander.

We are told to guard all our senses. Driving around town with large billboard containing Las Vegas models with almost nothing on leaves little to the imagination. With all the accidents that Los Angeles has, I wonder if anyone has done a study to see if there is a correlation between those billboards and all the horrific accidents.
Logged

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory to Him forever!
yeshuaisiam
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox, Anabaptist, Other Early Christianity kind of jumbled together
Posts: 4,086


A pulling horse cannot kick.


« Reply #63 on: January 23, 2014, 09:29:41 PM »

LOL! Take it from someone that has been in a Mennonite community EXACTLY like the ones you posted a picture of (EPMC...it's a particular denomination of Mennonites...one I am VERY familiar with and not looked highly upon, even by other Mennonites). They LOVE fashion! They compete amoungst themselves with their own particular kind of fashion. They rip each other apart over who has too many gathers in their sleeves or kapps and who has few to none. The great debate is skirt length...should it be mid calf or so many inches from the floor? Calf length is high for a tall woman and so many inches from the floor is high for a short woman. Oh, don't forget the hussy that wears a print that is bigger than a quarter and please degrade the person that wears no print as being legalistic.

Sorry, but you are picking apart all the other pictures as much as those Mennonite women pick each other apart.

And I find a major problem with blaming girls for your own failings. You can find someone attractive without stumbling. Any stumbling is your problem. Should Men and Women both dress modestly? Sure. Should either blame the other for any personal stumblings over a person's attire? No. Otherwise, one should lock oneself up.

Did you notice the very unhappy, not too sober, expressions on many of Mennonite women in that picture?
What was going on? Have they just finished quarreling? The woman standing in the front (far right side) wearing the very light print dress in turquoise looks like she is being pushed as she is preventing the woman behind her from being seen. Notice the hand touching her on her left arm.



Looks to me like they were singing and not posing.  Many of the EO women did not seem too happy either.  Also many Mennonites consider photography a graven image.

Here's youthful mennonites that allow photography.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FGhZ6HIRWo

Their smiles seem very genuine.
Logged

I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com
Maria
Orthodox Christian
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 7,761


O most Holy Theotokos, save us.


« Reply #64 on: January 23, 2014, 09:31:27 PM »

LOL! Take it from someone that has been in a Mennonite community EXACTLY like the ones you posted a picture of (EPMC...it's a particular denomination of Mennonites...one I am VERY familiar with and not looked highly upon, even by other Mennonites). They LOVE fashion! They compete amoungst themselves with their own particular kind of fashion. They rip each other apart over who has too many gathers in their sleeves or kapps and who has few to none. The great debate is skirt length...should it be mid calf or so many inches from the floor? Calf length is high for a tall woman and so many inches from the floor is high for a short woman. Oh, don't forget the hussy that wears a print that is bigger than a quarter and please degrade the person that wears no print as being legalistic.

Sorry, but you are picking apart all the other pictures as much as those Mennonite women pick each other apart.

And I find a major problem with blaming girls for your own failings. You can find someone attractive without stumbling. Any stumbling is your problem. Should Men and Women both dress modestly? Sure. Should either blame the other for any personal stumblings over a person's attire? No. Otherwise, one should lock oneself up.

Did you notice the very unhappy, not too sober, expressions on many of Mennonite women in that picture?
What was going on? Have they just finished quarreling? The woman standing in the front (far right side) wearing the very light print dress in turquoise looks like she is being pushed as she is preventing the woman behind her from being seen. Notice the hand touching her on her left arm.



Looks to me like they were singing and not posing.  Many of the EO women did not seem too happy either.  Also many Mennonites consider photography a graven image.

Here's youthful mennonites that allow photography.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FGhZ6HIRWo

Their smiles seem very genuine.

Singing with mouths closed?
Logged

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory to Him forever!
ZealousZeal
Gainsaying Helpmeet
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: ✔
Posts: 2,617



« Reply #65 on: January 23, 2014, 09:34:22 PM »

If my sister was 20-30 and would generally be found attractive, you are right, I would not be attracted to her.

If there was an attractive 20-30 year old nearby, I do have to will not to glance.

Guys please understand, I'm not talking about salivating and drooling on the floor.  I'm talking about glances, observances, and small split second thoughts of where the mind can wander.

Your OP had a lot of nit-picking for only talking about glances, observances, and small split-second thoughts. I'll be honest, I thought all of the pictures were pictures of very modest women.

Edited to fix my crazy sentence that was needlessly repetitive.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2014, 09:44:57 PM by ZealousZeal » Logged

"For this God is our God forever and ever; He will be our guide, even to the end." Psalm 48:14
yeshuaisiam
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox, Anabaptist, Other Early Christianity kind of jumbled together
Posts: 4,086


A pulling horse cannot kick.


« Reply #66 on: January 23, 2014, 09:39:17 PM »

LOL! Take it from someone that has been in a Mennonite community EXACTLY like the ones you posted a picture of (EPMC...it's a particular denomination of Mennonites...one I am VERY familiar with and not looked highly upon, even by other Mennonites). They LOVE fashion! They compete amoungst themselves with their own particular kind of fashion. They rip each other apart over who has too many gathers in their sleeves or kapps and who has few to none. The great debate is skirt length...should it be mid calf or so many inches from the floor? Calf length is high for a tall woman and so many inches from the floor is high for a short woman. Oh, don't forget the hussy that wears a print that is bigger than a quarter and please degrade the person that wears no print as being legalistic.

Sorry, but you are picking apart all the other pictures as much as those Mennonite women pick each other apart.

And I find a major problem with blaming girls for your own failings. You can find someone attractive without stumbling. Any stumbling is your problem. Should Men and Women both dress modestly? Sure. Should either blame the other for any personal stumblings over a person's attire? No. Otherwise, one should lock oneself up.

Exactly my feelings. Granted that a short skirt or a decollete catches my eye, in church as well as anywhere else, I have nobody to blame but myself. God made us so that we would be attracted to each other. He also gave us the Rules of Engagement, which are basically about what each individual should and should not do. Blaming others or things are not part of the divine ROE.

Carl, at least you admit to something, unlike several others who I guess think they belong on the iconostasis.

You are right, I am not blaming others either, as stated in my OP.   It's my weakness, as stated in the subject.  What I am speaking of is the sisters who don't want to cause others to fall.  There are some more courteous than others.  I was giving examples of the small ways women can cause men to fall.  We are all weak in different ways.

Logged

I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Online Online

Posts: 15,179


In solidarity with Iraqi and Syrian Nazarenes


WWW
« Reply #67 on: January 23, 2014, 09:42:22 PM »

We are all weak in different ways.

Is one of yours "rash judgement"? 

...unlike several others who I guess think they belong on the iconostasis.
Logged

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


"Mor is a jerk." - kelly
katherine 2001
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 884


Eastern Orthodox Church--Established in 33 A.D.


« Reply #68 on: January 23, 2014, 09:50:16 PM »

I just know, I don't want to see through YiM's eyes.

I'm with you.

Okay, here are some pictures of the Theophany complete with fat biki clad women and good looking ones too. It is not X-rated, but close to it, so beware. And all this happens with clergy present? Those polar bears!

http://russkij-sever.livejournal.com/1808038.html


p.s. I would certainly not participate in jumping into that ice hole, especially with a biki.

How come it is okay for the men at the Theophany service to be wearing speedos that leave very little to the imagination and nothing gets said about how tempting that is to women?  How are men getting away with dressing like that?  Jump into the water clothed guys, or wear swimming trunks that are a lot looser and leave something to the imagination!
Logged
JamesR
Virginal Chicano Blood
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: On-n-Off
Jurisdiction: OCA (the only truly Canonical American Orthodox Church)
Posts: 5,202


St. Augustine of Hippo pray for me!


« Reply #69 on: January 23, 2014, 09:56:23 PM »

Quote
How is it "not all bad"?

kids have been having sex early for a while now. just statistics. assuming the stuff happens between peers, yes, it's nothing remarkably bad.

So you approve? You'd be fine with your thirteen year old daughter having sex with another random kid from thirteen to sixteen at church camp?

No but I certainly wouldn't make it such a big deal as some make it.

The fact that so many fathers obsess solely over their daughters' virginity is sickening. You reduce her value as an individual down to an unbroken layer of skin. I'd be more concerned that my daughter is intelligent, getting an education, knows her values, and is doing something productive and good. THIS is what makes a good, valuable daughter in my eyes; not the unbrokenness of her hymen. You reduce her sole value down to what a man will think of her rather than what she thinks of herself.

Is it bad that kids are having sex at thirteen? Yeah. Most thirteen year olds are idiots and shouldn't be having sex (same goes for most adults tbh). But, it's not the worst thing that they could be doing and I wouldn't revolve my entire fatherhood around preserving their virginity. If my mom never had sex at fifteen she'd never have had me.
Logged

Quote
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
Quote
James, you have problemz.
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Online Online

Posts: 15,179


In solidarity with Iraqi and Syrian Nazarenes


WWW
« Reply #70 on: January 23, 2014, 10:01:57 PM »

The fact that so many fathers obsess solely over their daughters' virginity is sickening. You reduce her value as an individual down to an unbroken layer of skin. I'd be more concerned that my daughter is intelligent, getting an education, knows her values, and is doing something productive and good. THIS is what makes a good, valuable daughter in my eyes; not the unbrokenness of her hymen. You reduce her sole value down to what a man will think of her rather than what she thinks of herself.

I suppose those fathers couldn't possibly be worrying about their daughters' values and whether or not they are living up to them.  They are clearly worried about anatomy. 

Quote
Is it bad that kids are having sex at thirteen? Yeah. Most thirteen year olds are idiots and shouldn't be having sex (same goes for most adults tbh). But, it's not the worst thing that they could be doing and I wouldn't revolve my entire fatherhood around preserving their virginity. If my mom never had sex at fifteen she'd never have had me.

You would've been better off omitting this.
Logged

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


"Mor is a jerk." - kelly
Quinault
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 4,443


What about frogs? I like frogs!


« Reply #71 on: January 23, 2014, 10:02:39 PM »

Men and women have sexual drives outside of the opposite sex. Just ask people that have been in prison  Tongue
« Last Edit: January 23, 2014, 10:03:13 PM by Quinault » Logged
JamesR
Virginal Chicano Blood
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: On-n-Off
Jurisdiction: OCA (the only truly Canonical American Orthodox Church)
Posts: 5,202


St. Augustine of Hippo pray for me!


« Reply #72 on: January 23, 2014, 10:02:44 PM »

How come it is okay for the men at the Theophany service to be wearing speedos that leave very little to the imagination and nothing gets said about how tempting that is to women?  How are men getting away with dressing like that?  Jump into the water clothed guys, or wear swimming trunks that are a lot looser and leave something to the imagination!

Well, to be fair, I don't think that most women would want to see a bunch of overweight, 40-50 something year old men in speedos, hairy chests and all. One may consider it a form of penance  Wink
Logged

Quote
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
Quote
James, you have problemz.
Agabus
The user formerly known as Agabus.
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Pan-American Colloquial Convert Hybrid Orthodoxy.
Jurisdiction: We are all uncanonical now.
Posts: 2,095



« Reply #73 on: January 23, 2014, 10:04:16 PM »

Even with all of the discussions of headcovering and how hot and bothered a woman's hair can make some people, I never guessed I'd see a post here analyzing how much neck is too much neck.

I just know, I don't want to see through YiM's eyes.

I'm with you.

Okay, here are some pictures of the Theophany complete with fat biki clad women and good looking ones too. It is not X-rated, but close to it, so beware. And all this happens with clergy present? Those polar bears!

http://russkij-sever.livejournal.com/1808038.html


p.s. I would certainly not participate in jumping into that ice hole, especially with a biki.

LOL, I'm pretty sure those pictures are 10 times the equivalent of taking a cold shower. If anyone was thinking of their genitals there, it was only about how they were so cold they might fall off.

Logged

Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL ORTHODOX CHURCH
yeshuaisiam
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox, Anabaptist, Other Early Christianity kind of jumbled together
Posts: 4,086


A pulling horse cannot kick.


« Reply #74 on: January 23, 2014, 10:05:58 PM »

I just know, I don't want to see through YiM's eyes.

I'm with you.

Okay, here are some pictures of the Theophany complete with fat biki clad women and good looking ones too. It is not X-rated, but close to it, so beware. And all this happens with clergy present? Those polar bears!

http://russkij-sever.livejournal.com/1808038.html


p.s. I would certainly not participate in jumping into that ice hole, especially with a biki.

To add, and to Mor's request:    Also a WARNING as it is swim wear type stuff in the links (all EO)
http://www.goggleblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/epiphany.jpg
http://cdn4.pix.avaxnews.com/avaxnews/82/b1/0000b182_medium.jpeg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/01/19/article-2088794-0F86613900000578-386_470x423.jpg
http://www.anorak.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/PA-18724922.jpg
http://mynorthwest.com/emedia/apimage/76bc7253-f922-43b8-8b75-8c9597e86238.jpg

Much more graphic, WARNING
http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/files/2010/01/dip-8.jpg

The oddest part is, they are swimming in ICE WATER.  What does it matter if they wear clothes rather than skimpies?  Think about it.
Logged

I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com
ZealousZeal
Gainsaying Helpmeet
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: ✔
Posts: 2,617



« Reply #75 on: January 23, 2014, 10:06:26 PM »

The fact that so many fathers obsess solely over their daughters' virginity is sickening. You reduce her value as an individual down to an unbroken layer of skin. I'd be more concerned that my daughter is intelligent, getting an education, knows her values, and is doing something productive and good. THIS is what makes a good, valuable daughter in my eyes; not the unbrokenness of her hymen. You reduce her sole value down to what a man will think of her rather than what she thinks of herself.

I suppose those fathers couldn't possibly be worrying about their daughters' values and whether or not they are living up to them.  They are clearly worried about anatomy. 

Or perhaps the emotional fall-out from making such a choice at too young an age, or when the relationship inevitably goes awry and he doesn't want to see her hurt, or any other out of the plethora of reasons a father might not want his teenage daughter to be sexually active.

Some fathers do obsess over their daughters' virginity. I recall a documentary I watched semi-recently that was pretty creepy about it, but "so many"? I don't think so.
Logged

"For this God is our God forever and ever; He will be our guide, even to the end." Psalm 48:14
yeshuaisiam
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox, Anabaptist, Other Early Christianity kind of jumbled together
Posts: 4,086


A pulling horse cannot kick.


« Reply #76 on: January 23, 2014, 10:08:21 PM »

I just know, I don't want to see through YiM's eyes.

I'm with you.

Okay, here are some pictures of the Theophany complete with fat biki clad women and good looking ones too. It is not X-rated, but close to it, so beware. And all this happens with clergy present? Those polar bears!

http://russkij-sever.livejournal.com/1808038.html


p.s. I would certainly not participate in jumping into that ice hole, especially with a biki.

How come it is okay for the men at the Theophany service to be wearing speedos that leave very little to the imagination and nothing gets said about how tempting that is to women?  How are men getting away with dressing like that?  Jump into the water clothed guys, or wear swimming trunks that are a lot looser and leave something to the imagination!


I don't think it is!

But to be honest, go on any site and look at men asking "what do women find attractive in a man" the answer "depends on personality".  Just about everything deals with a personality THEN to looks....

Men, looks.  Period.... Later personality.

But anyway, not my point.  The links above are NOT appropriate for a Christians setting.  The sisters can cause men to commit adultery in their heart.
Logged

I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com
ZealousZeal
Gainsaying Helpmeet
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: ✔
Posts: 2,617



« Reply #77 on: January 23, 2014, 10:08:52 PM »

Even with all of the discussions of headcovering and how hot and bothered a woman's hair can make some people, I never guessed I'd see a post here analyzing how much neck is too much neck.

The neck thing threw me too, but I had no idea a woman's hair was such a big deal to guys.  Cheesy Or some of them.
Logged

"For this God is our God forever and ever; He will be our guide, even to the end." Psalm 48:14
Xenia
Harmless Little Fuzzball
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Posts: 122



« Reply #78 on: January 23, 2014, 10:08:58 PM »

What bothers me about this whole thread is that we are  speculating as to their ability to induce lustful thoughts girls who are somebody's daughters, that is, real people, who do not deserve to be the topic of this kind of conversation.  They probably never asked to have their photos put on the Internet and they certainly didn't ask to have their photos submitted to us for our approval of their apparel.  

Sometimes we get so used to the Internet that we lose all sense of appropriateness.
Logged
ZealousZeal
Gainsaying Helpmeet
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: ✔
Posts: 2,617



« Reply #79 on: January 23, 2014, 10:10:41 PM »

What bothers me about this whole thread is that we are  speculating as to their ability to induce lustful thoughts girls who are somebody's daughters, that is, real people, who do not deserve to be the topic of this kind of conversation.  They probably never asked to have their photos put on the Internet and they certainly didn't ask to have their photos submitted to us for our approval of their apparel.  

Sometimes we get so used to the Internet that we lose all sense of appropriateness.

I agree! That's what I was trying to say earlier when I said it was uncomfortable to read, but you said it much better.
Logged

"For this God is our God forever and ever; He will be our guide, even to the end." Psalm 48:14
Quinault
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 4,443


What about frogs? I like frogs!


« Reply #80 on: January 23, 2014, 10:12:54 PM »

How popular is internet dating? How many people "fall in love" with someone online and lust after that person? It doesn't take the physical presence of an attractive person to incite desire.
Logged
Agabus
The user formerly known as Agabus.
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Pan-American Colloquial Convert Hybrid Orthodoxy.
Jurisdiction: We are all uncanonical now.
Posts: 2,095



« Reply #81 on: January 23, 2014, 10:13:41 PM »

Even with all of the discussions of headcovering and how hot and bothered a woman's hair can make some people, I never guessed I'd see a post here analyzing how much neck is too much neck.

The neck thing threw me too, but I had no idea a woman's hair was such a big deal to guys.  Cheesy Or some of them.
Hah, different strokes for different folks.

As a living adult man, nothing in this thread has stirred me beyond amusement.

There's ridiculous, and then there's ridiculous. This is clearly the second.

What bothers me about this whole thread is that we are  speculating as to their ability to induce lustful thoughts girls who are somebody's daughters, that is, real people, who do not deserve to be the topic of this kind of conversation.  They probably never asked to have their photos put on the Internet and they certainly didn't ask to have their photos submitted to us for our approval of their apparel.  

Sometimes we get so used to the Internet that we lose all sense of appropriateness.

I agree! That's what I was trying to say earlier when I said it was uncomfortable to read, but you said it much better.
Pharisees gotta pharisee.
Logged

Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL ORTHODOX CHURCH
LBK
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 10,144


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #82 on: January 23, 2014, 10:15:48 PM »

Kids are having sex at church camps. At least that's what a Serbian friend was saying they were doing.

Was that comment really necessary? Honestly to what purpose?

Yes, over the course of the thirty five years of our camp, and I am sure at Antiochian Village as well, kids have been caught behaving inappropriately and have been sent home. Not many, but a few. So what? This proves exactly what I might ask?

You beat me to it.  Angry

Really, augustin's irreverent jaded cynic shtick does wear thin after a while.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2014, 10:23:05 PM by LBK » Logged
augustin717
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: The other ROC
Posts: 5,618


Teaching on the mountain


« Reply #83 on: January 23, 2014, 10:16:04 PM »

What I got from this thread is that mennonite men are  particularly sex crazed and their sisters (yuck) have to take extraordinary precautions as not to incite their uncontrollable lust.
Logged
JamesR
Virginal Chicano Blood
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: On-n-Off
Jurisdiction: OCA (the only truly Canonical American Orthodox Church)
Posts: 5,202


St. Augustine of Hippo pray for me!


« Reply #84 on: January 23, 2014, 10:20:33 PM »

Or perhaps the emotional fall-out from making such a choice at too young an age

There's nothing emotional about sex. It's no different than eating or drinking coffee. I could have sex with ten women and I wouldn't feel anything. Why do you think most of the world was polygamous prior to Christianity?

Quote
...or when the relationship inevitably goes awry and he doesn't want to see her hurt

She would be hurt regardless of whether or not she had sex

Quote
...or any other out of the plethora of reasons a father might not want his teenage daughter to be sexually active.

Like what men think of her?

Quote
Some fathers do obsess over their daughters' virginity. I recall a documentary I watched semi-recently that was pretty creepy about it, but "so many"? I don't think so.

My grandmother told me a story about a friend she had who got pregnant at 14. Her parents made her strip nude and show her where she was touched and "penetrated." Her father also used to inspect her undergarments for semen and/or blood.

Some people take this way too seriously.
Logged

Quote
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
Quote
James, you have problemz.
augustin717
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: The other ROC
Posts: 5,618


Teaching on the mountain


« Reply #85 on: January 23, 2014, 10:22:49 PM »

Kids are having sex at church camps. At least that's what a Serbian friend was saying they were doing.

Was that comment really necessary? Honestly to what purpose?

Yes, over the course of the thirty five years of our camp, and I am sure at Antiochian Village as well, kids have been caught behaving inappropriately and have been sent home. Not many, but a few. So what? This proves exactly what I might ask?

You beat me to it.  Angry

Really, the irreverent jaded cynic shtick does wear thin after a while.
u r right lbk. i was actually wondering as to more creative ways of offending a larger number of people. i think i'll post pictures of me climbing up iconostases in order to venerate "old man" icons of the Trinity.
Logged
JamesR
Virginal Chicano Blood
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: On-n-Off
Jurisdiction: OCA (the only truly Canonical American Orthodox Church)
Posts: 5,202


St. Augustine of Hippo pray for me!


« Reply #86 on: January 23, 2014, 10:23:42 PM »

Really, the irreverent jaded cynic shtick does wear thin after a while.
u r right lbk. i was actually wondering as to more creative ways of offending a larger number of people. i think i'll post pictures of me climbing up iconostases in order to venerate "old man" icons of the Trinity.

POTM material right here folks.
Logged

Quote
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
Quote
James, you have problemz.
Agabus
The user formerly known as Agabus.
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Pan-American Colloquial Convert Hybrid Orthodoxy.
Jurisdiction: We are all uncanonical now.
Posts: 2,095



« Reply #87 on: January 23, 2014, 10:24:00 PM »

There's nothing emotional about sex. It's no different than eating or drinking coffee. I could have sex with ten women and I wouldn't feel anything.
Aren't you a virgin?

And while I'll pass the chance for a glib comment about eating, how the heck are you drinking coffee?
Logged

Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL ORTHODOX CHURCH
Quinault
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 4,443


What about frogs? I like frogs!


« Reply #88 on: January 23, 2014, 10:27:20 PM »

"There is nothing emotional about sex."

You forgot the rest of your statement:

I've watched my dog have sex in the yard for years, he never calls those b!@#$% back afterward.

(Although the word in context is not a curse word, I figured that I better not use the real term lest I end up with a green dot.)

For your reference: sex≠masturbation
« Last Edit: January 23, 2014, 10:33:43 PM by Quinault » Logged
Etsi
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek
Posts: 155


Always reflecting and reforming.


« Reply #89 on: January 23, 2014, 10:27:59 PM »

LOL! Take it from someone that has been in a Mennonite community EXACTLY like the ones you posted a picture of (EPMC...it's a particular denomination of Mennonites...one I am VERY familiar with and not looked highly upon, even by other Mennonites). They LOVE fashion! They compete amoungst themselves with their own particular kind of fashion. They rip each other apart over who has too many gathers in their sleeves or kapps and who has few to none. The great debate is skirt length...should it be mid calf or so many inches from the floor? Calf length is high for a tall woman and so many inches from the floor is high for a short woman. Oh, don't forget the hussy that wears a print that is bigger than a quarter and please degrade the person that wears no print as being legalistic.

Sorry, but you are picking apart all the other pictures as much as those Mennonite women pick each other apart.

And I find a major problem with blaming girls for your own failings. You can find someone attractive without stumbling. Any stumbling is your problem. Should Men and Women both dress modestly? Sure. Should either blame the other for any personal stumblings over a person's attire? No. Otherwise, one should lock oneself up.

Did you notice the very unhappy, not too sober, expressions on many of Mennonite women in that picture?
What was going on? Have they just finished quarreling? The woman standing in the front (far right side) wearing the very light print dress in turquoise looks like she is being pushed as she is preventing the woman behind her from being seen. Notice the hand touching her on her left arm.



Looks to me like they were singing and not posing.  Many of the EO women did not seem too happy either.  Also many Mennonites consider photography a graven image.

Here's youthful mennonites that allow photography.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FGhZ6HIRWo

Their smiles seem very genuine.

Charity is a not a Mennonite group. They are an anabaptist offshoot...and I'll be so bold as to call them a cult. Trust me, Charity members "look happy". It's because if the wife isn't "glowing" then she's in spiritual danger and might be going to hell unless she confesses whatever her secret sin is. Let me tell you just how many women within Charity and EPMC use anti-depressants to keep them "in form" (looking happy when they aren't or to "help them conform"...exact words, mind you). Charity is a nasty, nasty group that I do not encourage anyone to ever go near. I know ONE person in it that I could call somewhat real. Get invited to an event and not be part of their group, expect the cold shoulder. Their biggest things are sheep stealing from other anabaptist groups and adopting children of other ethnicities so they can save the "heathen", but never really accept them within their communities wholly as adults (and one that I know is a different ethnicity works hard to stay out of the sun so her skin stays as light as possible, so she'll be more acceptable).

Amish disagree with photos. Mennonites do not...even old order Jo Wengers are fine with photos. They don't indulge in them very much, but they aren't against them per se either.
Logged
Tags: st. rachel ephrem wtfbbq backflesh burqini mennonite fashion cancer Dr. Maria 
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 »   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.167 seconds with 72 queries.