Author Topic: Louisiana forests being sacrificed to fuel Europe's biomass boom  (Read 719 times)

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Offline Jetavan

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In 2007, the European Union set an ambitious goal to reduce emissions of greenhouse gases to 20 percent below their 1990 levels by 2020. That, in effect, required power plants across the continent to quickly find new ways to make energy. Some turned to wind and solar. But for coal-fired power plants it was much cheaper to convert their facilities to burn wood. The conundrum for those companies is that much of western Europe doesn’t have sufficiently large forests left to meet the demand, and the remaining woodland is heavily regulated. So corporations turned to the Southeastern U.S., where wood is plentiful, and regulations about what can be done on private land are lax.
....
“It’s ludicrous that we’re chopping down our forests and shipping them to Europe to help meet their energy goals,” said Scot Quaranda, the campaign director for the Dogwood Alliance, a forest watchdog group. “But in the South, on private land, you can basically get away with anything.”

Quaranda said his group has documented several cases of forests clear-cut for biomass fuel. A Wall Street Journal report also found clear-cutting in North Carolina.

Seth Ginther, a lawyer with the U.S. Industrial Pellet Association, insists the pellet industry is not responsible for environmental damage. But he acknowledged that private landowners are free to do what they wish, including cut down whole trees on their land.

And in the South, where nearly 90 percent of land is privately owned, there is no law on the books requiring landowners to grow those trees back.

Dozens of biomass facilities have been built in the South. There are currently two in Louisiana, with eight more planned, according to Quaranda.
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Offline vamrat

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Re: Louisiana forests being sacrificed to fuel Europe's biomass boom
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2014, 11:56:04 AM »
Green Energy is the result of the NIMBY crowd.  They like electricity but gripe about Nuclear.  There are very few forms of "Green" Energy that are not harming the environment somewhere else.  "Windpower is free energy!"  Except for all the energy it took to smelt the metal for those turbines, and the oil burned to ship each vane on a semi, not to mention the masts.  Here they are using trees for biomass because...IDK, rotting garbage and poo are stinky so let's just chop down trees instead?  Let's just do it somewhere else. 

Nuclear power is not "safe", especially if you keep running ancient reactors and/or have retards operating them.  Nuclear power still requires energy to build the things and you still have to mine uranium and store the spent fuel for ages.  But at least you are getting high output of electricity compared to the supposedly clean alternatives.
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Louisiana forests being sacrificed to fuel Europe's biomass boom
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2014, 12:17:40 PM »
Green Energy is the result of the NIMBY crowd.  They like electricity but gripe about Nuclear.  There are very few forms of "Green" Energy that are not harming the environment somewhere else.  "Windpower is free energy!"  Except for all the energy it took to smelt the metal for those turbines, and the oil burned to ship each vane on a semi, not to mention the masts.  Here they are using trees for biomass because...IDK, rotting garbage and poo are stinky so let's just chop down trees instead?  Let's just do it somewhere else. 

Nuclear power is not "safe", especially if you keep running ancient reactors and/or have retards operating them.  Nuclear power still requires energy to build the things and you still have to mine uranium and store the spent fuel for ages.  But at least you are getting high output of electricity compared to the supposedly clean alternatives.

Not that this has anything to do with your post, but I was shocked at the fact KY sealed an large deal with India to ship COAL to them. COAL.

Do you know how much a ton of coal costs? I've always wanted to get someone a ton of coal for xmas and have it dropped off in their front yard. It would cost 20x more to have it transported than the cost of the coal and it would still be a cheap prank.

I remember spending a few hours looking over the deal and running some numbers and being incredibly perplexed about the feasibility of sending coal over the ocean and being able to turn a profit.
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Offline vamrat

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Re: Louisiana forests being sacrificed to fuel Europe's biomass boom
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2014, 12:37:29 PM »
Green Energy is the result of the NIMBY crowd.  They like electricity but gripe about Nuclear.  There are very few forms of "Green" Energy that are not harming the environment somewhere else.  "Windpower is free energy!"  Except for all the energy it took to smelt the metal for those turbines, and the oil burned to ship each vane on a semi, not to mention the masts.  Here they are using trees for biomass because...IDK, rotting garbage and poo are stinky so let's just chop down trees instead?  Let's just do it somewhere else. 

Nuclear power is not "safe", especially if you keep running ancient reactors and/or have retards operating them.  Nuclear power still requires energy to build the things and you still have to mine uranium and store the spent fuel for ages.  But at least you are getting high output of electricity compared to the supposedly clean alternatives.

Not that this has anything to do with your post, but I was shocked at the fact KY sealed an large deal with India to ship COAL to them. COAL.

Do you know how much a ton of coal costs? I've always wanted to get someone a ton of coal for xmas and have it dropped off in their front yard. It would cost 20x more to have it transported than the cost of the coal and it would still be a cheap prank.

I remember spending a few hours looking over the deal and running some numbers and being incredibly perplexed about the feasibility of sending coal over the ocean and being able to turn a profit.

I don't have a dollar figure, but it's pretty cheap.  We were talking about putting a coal stove insert into the fireplace, and it looks like the biggest expense for this application would be building a coal locker!  The main thing that turned us off is buying it by the ton as a minimum increment.  I think the coal fire plant north of town burns through a train per day and this is still relatively cheap.
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline Alpo

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Re: Louisiana forests being sacrificed to fuel Europe's biomass boom
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2014, 12:41:44 PM »
We're just doing what you should do. :angel:

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Louisiana forests being sacrificed to fuel Europe's biomass boom
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2014, 12:42:08 PM »
Green Energy is the result of the NIMBY crowd.  They like electricity but gripe about Nuclear.  There are very few forms of "Green" Energy that are not harming the environment somewhere else.  "Windpower is free energy!"  Except for all the energy it took to smelt the metal for those turbines, and the oil burned to ship each vane on a semi, not to mention the masts.  Here they are using trees for biomass because...IDK, rotting garbage and poo are stinky so let's just chop down trees instead?  Let's just do it somewhere else. 

Nuclear power is not "safe", especially if you keep running ancient reactors and/or have retards operating them.  Nuclear power still requires energy to build the things and you still have to mine uranium and store the spent fuel for ages.  But at least you are getting high output of electricity compared to the supposedly clean alternatives.

Not that this has anything to do with your post, but I was shocked at the fact KY sealed an large deal with India to ship COAL to them. COAL.

Do you know how much a ton of coal costs? I've always wanted to get someone a ton of coal for xmas and have it dropped off in their front yard. It would cost 20x more to have it transported than the cost of the coal and it would still be a cheap prank.

I remember spending a few hours looking over the deal and running some numbers and being incredibly perplexed about the feasibility of sending coal over the ocean and being able to turn a profit.

I don't have a dollar figure, but it's pretty cheap.  We were talking about putting a coal stove insert into the fireplace, and it looks like the biggest expense for this application would be building a coal locker!  The main thing that turned us off is buying it by the ton as a minimum increment.  I think the coal fire plant north of town burns through a train per day and this is still relatively cheap.

Dude, I am guessing you have been around coal? It's the worst. My grandfather used it. Maybe some of the higher quality coal is "cleaner" but it was a mess and an pain to haul.

But it does have a certain quality to its heat that is nice. This old timer I knew from the cold crack in NY where it is basically Canada grew up with their beds on "stilts" for the winter. We discussed the how coal some how felt "moister" than wood or gas, if that makes any sense, but the mess was just awful.
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Offline vamrat

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Re: Louisiana forests being sacrificed to fuel Europe's biomass boom
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2014, 12:49:58 PM »
Green Energy is the result of the NIMBY crowd.  They like electricity but gripe about Nuclear.  There are very few forms of "Green" Energy that are not harming the environment somewhere else.  "Windpower is free energy!"  Except for all the energy it took to smelt the metal for those turbines, and the oil burned to ship each vane on a semi, not to mention the masts.  Here they are using trees for biomass because...IDK, rotting garbage and poo are stinky so let's just chop down trees instead?  Let's just do it somewhere else. 

Nuclear power is not "safe", especially if you keep running ancient reactors and/or have retards operating them.  Nuclear power still requires energy to build the things and you still have to mine uranium and store the spent fuel for ages.  But at least you are getting high output of electricity compared to the supposedly clean alternatives.

Not that this has anything to do with your post, but I was shocked at the fact KY sealed an large deal with India to ship COAL to them. COAL.

Do you know how much a ton of coal costs? I've always wanted to get someone a ton of coal for xmas and have it dropped off in their front yard. It would cost 20x more to have it transported than the cost of the coal and it would still be a cheap prank.

I remember spending a few hours looking over the deal and running some numbers and being incredibly perplexed about the feasibility of sending coal over the ocean and being able to turn a profit.

I don't have a dollar figure, but it's pretty cheap.  We were talking about putting a coal stove insert into the fireplace, and it looks like the biggest expense for this application would be building a coal locker!  The main thing that turned us off is buying it by the ton as a minimum increment.  I think the coal fire plant north of town burns through a train per day and this is still relatively cheap.

Dude, I am guessing you have been around coal? It's the worst. My grandfather used it. Maybe some of the higher quality coal is "cleaner" but it was a mess and an pain to haul.

But it does have a certain quality to its heat that is nice. This old timer I knew from the cold crack in NY where it is basically Canada grew up with their beds on "stilts" for the winter. We discussed the how coal some how felt "moister" than wood or gas, if that makes any sense, but the mess was just awful.

Neither of us really have, we were just looking at it as an option in case the wood supply dried up.  Right now we have a good supply.  There is a guy who does tree removal after a storm, and he calls people to 'dispose' of the wood for him.  A tree will usually get you through a winter, you just need to dry it for a year first.  We also have friends with land and my brother goes out and chops up trees that fall down.  There's almost always a year old one or two down that can be gathered.
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline Jetavan

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Re: Louisiana forests being sacrificed to fuel Europe's biomass boom
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2014, 03:39:53 PM »
We're just doing what you should do. :angel:
Doesn't Finland have some trees? or Russia?
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Offline hecma925

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Re: Louisiana forests being sacrificed to fuel Europe's biomass boom
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2014, 03:41:14 PM »
Burning wood is cool again?
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Louisiana forests being sacrificed to fuel Europe's biomass boom
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2014, 03:50:40 PM »
We're just doing what you should do. :angel:

No, Alpo, not you too  :-\

I guess it was only a matter of time with all those calypso caps.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 03:52:11 PM by Cyrillic »
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Offline Alpo

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Re: Louisiana forests being sacrificed to fuel Europe's biomass boom
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2014, 03:54:20 PM »
I've been somewhat green-ish for years. Lately I've been feeling a bit guilty for eating meat too. :police:

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Louisiana forests being sacrificed to fuel Europe's biomass boom
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2014, 03:57:00 PM »
I've been somewhat green-ish for years. Lately I've been feeling a bit guilty for eating meat too. :police:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!
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Offline Alpo

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Re: Louisiana forests being sacrificed to fuel Europe's biomass boom
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2014, 04:03:04 PM »
I'm going to move to the Netherlands and smoke all your weed.

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Re: Louisiana forests being sacrificed to fuel Europe's biomass boom
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2014, 04:05:03 PM »
I'm going to move to the Netherlands and smoke all your weed.

I'm going to move to Finland and eat all your mooses.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 04:05:18 PM by Cyrillic »
"April is the cruellest month, breeding
lilacs out of the dead land, mixing
memory and desire, stirring
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-T.S. Eliot

Offline Alpo

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Re: Louisiana forests being sacrificed to fuel Europe's biomass boom
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2014, 04:07:51 PM »
Drugs for moose? Sounds like a nice bargain to me.

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Louisiana forests being sacrificed to fuel Europe's biomass boom
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2014, 04:09:41 PM »
Drugs for moose? Sounds like a nice bargain to me.

Smoking pot will make you hungry, so you'll need my moose eventually. We should run the international Alpo-Cyrillic cartel, selling moose and pot all over the world. We'll be rich and have plenty of mooses and pot.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 04:10:56 PM by Cyrillic »
"April is the cruellest month, breeding
lilacs out of the dead land, mixing
memory and desire, stirring
dull roots with spring rain."
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Offline vamrat

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Re: Louisiana forests being sacrificed to fuel Europe's biomass boom
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2014, 04:11:37 PM »
Burning wood is cool again?

No, it's warm.
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline vamrat

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Re: Louisiana forests being sacrificed to fuel Europe's biomass boom
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2014, 04:13:15 PM »
Drugs for moose? Sounds like a nice bargain to me.

Smoking pot will make you hungry, so you'll need my moose eventually. We should run the international Alpo-Cyrillic cartel, selling moose and pot all over the world. We'll be rich and have plenty of mooses and pot.

There is a market glut of pot peddlers these days, but moose merchants?  It may be a niche market but I think you would have high market share if you were to open shop in somewhere trendy, like New York or Mogadishu. 
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline Alpo

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Re: Louisiana forests being sacrificed to fuel Europe's biomass boom
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2014, 04:19:19 PM »
Drugs for moose? Sounds like a nice bargain to me.

Smoking pot will make you hungry, so you'll need my moose eventually. We should run the international Alpo-Cyrillic cartel, selling moose and pot all over the world. We'll be rich and have plenty of mooses and pot.

What's the price over there? It's probably a lot cheaper over there than here. I could start importing it to here. I'm fairly sure I can sell everything you can provide. My uncle is hunting so I think he could provide some moose for hungry Dutch. I bet there's loads of Dutch hipsters who would like to have some along with their pot.

Offline Eastern Mind

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Re: Louisiana forests being sacrificed to fuel Europe's biomass boom
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2014, 04:20:44 PM »
Sooooo if I just admitted I was green... :P
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Offline Alpo

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Re: Louisiana forests being sacrificed to fuel Europe's biomass boom
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2014, 04:24:41 PM »
Sooooo if I just admitted I was green... :P

Join the club. I believe Cyrillic can provide some pot for you too.

Offline Eastern Mind

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Re: Louisiana forests being sacrificed to fuel Europe's biomass boom
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2014, 04:27:14 PM »
Sooooo if I just admitted I was green... :P

Join the club. I believe Cyrillic can provide some pot for you too.

:D
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Louisiana forests being sacrificed to fuel Europe's biomass boom
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2014, 04:28:27 PM »
Sooooo if I just admitted I was green... :P

Join the club. I believe Cyrillic can provide some pot for you too.

I don't do international shipping. The FBI might find out and that might lead them directly to my illegal moose colony.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 04:29:18 PM by Cyrillic »
"April is the cruellest month, breeding
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Offline Hinterlander

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Re: Louisiana forests being sacrificed to fuel Europe's biomass boom
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2014, 05:02:39 PM »
Where I live, near the Navajo Nation, I see people selling coal out of pickup trucks all the time.

A couple years ago I was bemoaning habitat loss for Orangutans only to later put together my new affordable kitchen table made with "wood from Malaysia".  Much of the clear cutting in SE Asia is making way for palm oil - another example of "green energy"




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Re: Louisiana forests being sacrificed to fuel Europe's biomass boom
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2014, 05:05:22 PM »
Sooooo if I just admitted I was green... :P

Join the club. I believe Cyrillic can provide some pot for you too.

I don't do international shipping. The FBI might find out and that might lead them directly to my illegal moose colony.

Where do you have the room to keep a moose colony in the Netherlands? Have you been secretly reclaiming land from the sea? :P
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Re: Louisiana forests being sacrificed to fuel Europe's biomass boom
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2014, 05:10:17 PM »
Drugs for moose? Sounds like a nice bargain to me.

Smoking pot will make you hungry, so you'll need my moose eventually. We should run the international Alpo-Cyrillic cartel, selling moose and pot all over the world. We'll be rich and have plenty of mooses and pot.

There is a market glut of pot peddlers these days, but moose merchants?  It may be a niche market but I think you would have high market share if you were to open shop in somewhere trendy, like New York or Mogadishu. 

I hear Ulan Bator is becoming a hipster hot spot.  They could sell their potted or stoned moose along with some of the finest NW Mongolian virgin ear wax.  They'd make a killing.  (Or become one... ;D)
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Offline J Michael

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Re: Louisiana forests being sacrificed to fuel Europe's biomass boom
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2014, 05:10:49 PM »
Sooooo if I just admitted I was green... :P

Join the club. I believe Cyrillic can provide some pot for you too.

I don't do international shipping. The FBI might find out and that might lead them directly to my illegal moose colony.

Where do you have the room to keep a moose colony in the Netherlands? Have you been secretly reclaiming land from the sea? :P

Nah...they hide them in the tulips.  ;D
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Offline hecma925

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Re: Louisiana forests being sacrificed to fuel Europe's biomass boom
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2014, 07:51:10 AM »
Burning wood is cool again?

No, it's warm.

Ha!  I was waiting for that one.
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Offline hecma925

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Re: Louisiana forests being sacrificed to fuel Europe's biomass boom
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2014, 07:53:12 AM »
I hear Ulan Bator is becoming a hipster hot spot.  They could sell their potted or stoned moose along with some of the finest NW Mongolian virgin ear wax.  They'd make a killing.  (Or become one... ;D)
There has been a lot of fighting between the wax and powdered fermented milk cartels.  I would advise caution.

Nah...they hide them in the tulips.  ;D
[/quote]

Now the secret's out! >:(
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Offline converted viking

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Re: Louisiana forests being sacrificed to fuel Europe's biomass boom
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2014, 09:01:40 AM »
I'm going to move to the Netherlands and smoke all your weed.

I'm going to move to Finland and eat all your mooses.


Wait.  They have moose is Finland?  I thought they have reindeer in Finland and do they not glow green in the dark due to the Chernobyle melt down?   The elf Mafia might have something about you eating their moose/reindeer whatever they are.

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