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Author Topic: Lack of Intimacy in Families Today  (Read 495 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: January 21, 2014, 11:54:54 AM »

Thought of putting this elsewhere, maybe the family forum but this seemed the best place.

So it is 2014 and the memories of my childhood are very special. I do not wish to romanticize the intimacy of family but there is no doubt in my mind that after the 1950s and because of the Baby Boomers the idea of family before friends, blood before friendship has died. I do not mean this in a silly way of blindly loving your family before your neigbour, but there used to be an idea that you put your family before your friends. Friends are important, but they change. Family, even if there is a feud, does not. They still share the same blood.

After my gradmothers died, both on my mother's and father's side, it seemed we spent less time with family. My parents were children of the 1960s and 1970s, born in the mid to late 1950s. It was an age of rebellion against the old rules and ways. I do not blame my parents or the Baby Boomer adults completely, but I remember my paternal grandmother, when we visited her, made sure my sister and I played with our second cousins, her great grandaughters. There were no kids in the neigbourhood my grandma live in so you could say it was that, but I think it was also her wanting us to play with our kin. My maternal grandmother was born in 1925 and was no conservative or even religious, like hermother was her mother, born about 1904 or so. She did not even go to church, my maternal grandmother, but though born in the Roaring Twenties she still was raised with a sense of the importance of family. I don't think it is that my parents do not care about family but for them their age was a confusing age of rebellion and dying tradition. I think The Wonder Years shows this perfectly as an example in dramatic art. I think it was my grandmothers and the older generation that really kept the family intimate and I think there are various reasons that intimacy became less frequent on both sides of the family. There are reasons for distance on my mother's side that are deep and go back but on my father's side there is less reason. When my maternal grandmother died we moved into her house and strangely enough, though close to his maternal family, we spend less time with the family even though with lived in the same county now within minutes of each other.

Now fifteen years later I hardly know those cousins I played with. The one I had a crush on has grown and is pretty, but her sister is the more beautiful one. But I hardly know them. Over those years we hardly saw each other, though we lived within driving distance. My sister went to school with them but I was always about five to seven years older so I was always in middle or high school when they were still back in the earlier schools. It has nothing to do with my childhood crush of my two younger second cousins. I am not ashamed of it and think it is even normal for a cousin to have romantic affections for another, especially in childhood. The idea of kissing cousins arises from this and it is not just a Kentucky stereotype. It has nothing to do with crushes. It has to do that we played together and are of the same generation. But we hardly know each other. The same with my second cousins on the maternal side. We played together as kids but in the teenage years we did not see each other as much. I was just thinking how unnatural and modern this is. The was no feud or any reason to justify not seeing each other.

I know I've made this personal but finally added these cousins on Facebook and realize how little we know each other. It's like we know we are bonded by blood and seed, but we do not know each other like we should. Maybe it is because I was Mormon and am now Catholic and have this ideal of family being intimate--the Irish or Italian stereotype, or I suppose for you Orthodox the stereotype of Greeks. I've made this personal to make a point. I just think the Baby Boomer generation has led to a certain distancing of familial bonds because the generation had an egalitarian idea, I think of a a human family and peace among all. For them the bonds of family were not sacred like they were in the past. And their children, my generation, often spend more time with their friends than family. We see all the problems this creates.

Anyway, my thoughts. Forgive the length and intimacy. I figured I would say this here because saying it to my family would be imprudent. They would think this was about being in love with my two pretty cousins or something. The is about what is right and wrong, proper and improper for society. It is important I think to understand these things from a cultural standpoint. I do not romanticize the pre-1960s by any means but I would say things really went down for traditional society after World War I. My great gradmother I mentioned, born around 1904, was the last of that generation. She was pious and maternal in the traditional way, a simple and humble church going Baptist. Alas how times have changed. The old south has finally died at the hands of the Yankees.
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« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2014, 02:05:55 AM »

This is an excellent post.

Frankly I blame Facebook, technology, and narcissism that is induced by technology.   I believe it's making people meaner and more calloused to say things on their mind that they would not say in person.   We don't respond to people with emotion or see the person we are hurting online.

Google "facebook is evil" "facebook hurt me", etc., you'll find countless stories of how facebook destroys lives.

Consider:
Tina has 2 brothers.
Tina is married to Bob for 10 years.
2 brothers are friends with Bob on Facebook and sometimes hang out.
Tina and Bob get a nasty divorce.
Several years later Tina remarries.
Her 2 brothers think they have the right to remain friends with Bob on facebook.

In the 1950's often the 2 brothers and Bob would just naturally grow estranged.... Apart... then non-existant.  Today people think they have "the right" to stay friends, rather than to accept the people their sister presents to the family.... Tina has to live forever with her brothers talking to her ex.  Tina never gets a new start with a new husband without her brothers talking with her ex.  It's a mess.  Her brothers would have to un-friend her ex, which could be considered hostile.  Let your imagination run wild on the complexities that could ensue - ALL over digital.

Another example would be the infidelity of people finding old flings / boyfriends / girlfriends on facebook.  Infidelity, adultery, fornication, etc.

Another example is people's digital representation of themselves (yes quasi avatar) do not represent the person.  We aren't always happy (which facebook shows), and we aren't always on vacation.  This incites jealousy and all kinds of oddities on how we perceive others.

An odd example would be how we can find childhood friends on Facebook.  Just a short while ago before Facebook, they were "legends in our minds", just how it has been since the beginning of humanity.   Today, look em up, friend em, talk to them again.  What harm?  I don't know.  It's just I'm one who believes to let sleeping dogs sleep and get on with life.  I find this to be awkwardly dangerous as uncharted waters.

Technology and email... Just odd....  Do you find yourself sometimes hanging on every word so that it won't be perceived wrong?  Do you find yourself spell checking so you don't appear stupid or erroneous?  It gives us mistrust in others as we must appear "more" perfect.  Thus we begin to reject others as the reality of who we are comes crashing down in person.  Same as Facebook.

Think about people "not wanting to talk to somebody" on caller ID.  What does this do to our psychological make up?  "I don't have time or want to talk to so and so"="My time is more precious and I'm too good to talk with so and so".    I think Caller ID at first was a novelty, and later became a mega tool to fuel narcissism.   I get more calls when people are driving because they are bored rather than taking precious time out of their busy schedule to talk.

Family also is broken by the brainwashing of TV and media.   Family dinners in front of the TV often happen.  Our lives "become" the lives on the tube. Mistrust, uncontented, cheating, lying, violent loving, etc.

I believe the family break down and sincere love between family was destroyed through technology and media.

The big argument exists because technology is also an amazing tool.   I believe most of it (including myself) may have dived in too far.   Did you know that 60% of all divorces are irreconcilable differences (no paperwork citing fault).  Then 33% of all divorces contain the word Facebook!!!!!   This means that of the 40% left (after 60% of no paperwork), that 33% of 40% = 83% of all divorces with paperwork contain the word facebook!   (google it!!!)

Any of you remember the 1970's or 1980's?  Remember running to the phone when it rang excited to see who it was and not avoiding calls?

Anyway to the OP, I blame a HUGE amount of this family bond breaking on technology.   There are HUGE uses for technology, but I am really begin to question "is it worth it?".

Life seemed much more simple and wholesome in the 1970's / 1980's.   Family often liked each other too.

Anyway, that's my opinion on the matter.
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« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2014, 02:37:35 AM »

Every time seems a lot better about 30 years later.

The 70s and 80s were horrible.
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« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2014, 11:11:24 AM »

Reminds me of Roberto Goizueta's Caminemos con Jesus, in which he critiques American culture in contrast to Latino/America-Hispanic culture. The former he decries as having become so individualistic that all sense of real community has been lost (though he over-generalizes Americans, as not all groups have broken even if most have). It seems to have been a long-time-coming, the result of Western cultural development over the past few centuries. The West's development of individualism, rejection of the past/ancestors, etc. Coming out of this individualism and rejection of inherited communities, he also commented on American views of voluntary association, in terms of family, community, religion, and so on. One only associates with those whom they voluntarily choose to, just like one only associates with a religion they voluntarily choose to. There were more observations he made, but I can't remember off the top of my head.

In short, I don't blame it solely on any one generation. It's the culmination of centuries of cultural and intellectual development.
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« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2014, 02:14:33 PM »

Yeah, I've been thinking about this a lot lately in my melancholic brood. I try to remember the past is not to be romanticized but I agree Facebook, TV and the whole modern culture has made things worse.

I have my paternal family and my maternal family. My mother's father drowned when she was twelve and they grew up poor with a widowed mother. She was raised by her older sister in many ways because her mother had to work so I think that is what gives my mother such a strong work ethic. That sister died last year, God rest her soul, and her brother died a few years ago of cancer. Her other brothers are somewhat estranged but my mom told me they talk more because of Facebook. I asked if she talked to them on the phone. She said not often and I left it at that but I was thinking how though I am glad she is talking to her brothers more on Facebook she should call them, too. Facebook is not the same--leaving comments is not real conversation. She is planning to go see them this spring though which is good and we all went to see them back in 2008 down in Georgia--well the two that live in Georgia. I remember how glad her late brother, who had cancer at the time, was to see us. He knew he was dying and I remember, thin from alcoholism and the chemo, he was on the verge of tears when he told us he was so glad to see us and loved us. I have tears in my eyes writing this. I think he knew this is the last time he would see his sister.

The reason for their growing distant has deep reasons. The family had problems--my grandfather, the one who died when my mother was twelve was an alcoholic though I think a god man. He just had his demons and died fishing on a cold November day--my mother's twelfth birthday. We went to the small lake in front of their old house in Macon where they drowned because my mom wanted to see it and I remember the brother who had to identify the body when they pulled it out saying he hated coming to the place. I think they were glad to see each other though because I think the last time they had seen each other was in over ten years ago when their mother died. She only saw her late sister on a regular basis, who lived in Kentucky. There are just a lot of reasons even I do not understand for why they have not talked over the years. The early death of their father perhaps, the poverty and the distance, and I think that the family going back was never very close. They were hillbillies from Eastern Kentucky with Anglo-Irish roots.

Oddly enough the first inbreeding I saw in the family was among some Irish nobility, an Elizabethan era Irish countess who married her first cousin who was half her age--but the two had long been in love. Still I gather that there was not the same closeness that I noticed in my father's ancestors, at least on his maternal side. So even in the past there were families that were not close, but it was not for the same reasons as today. Oddly enough in studying family history, because my mom is Mormon, we learned one of her hillbilly ancestors was an outlaw who was the last hanging in Kentucky I believe. He was a robber and murderer or something. There are likely even ties to the whole Hatfield-McCoy thing since that is where my mother's family is originally from after the Anglo-Irish immigration.

Point is there have always been families that grow apart, but not for the cultural reasons of today but because families sometimes have deep rooted troubles. No family is perfect even in the so called golden days of old. But we are living in a very anti-family era.
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« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2014, 02:40:15 PM »

Without this American individuality, how many of us would have broken with the churches of our families and ancestors to become Orthodox? How many of us would have even been afforded the opportunity outside such a pluralistic society? If the United States was still a British colony, for example, and the crown decreed only the Anglican church in our lands, how could we have even been Orthodox? So many ironies...
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« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2014, 03:58:10 PM »

Without this American individuality, how many of us would have broken with the churches of our families and ancestors to become Orthodox? How many of us would have even been afforded the opportunity outside such a pluralistic society? If the United States was still a British colony, for example, and the crown decreed only the Anglican church in our lands, how could we have even been Orthodox? So many ironies...

I was thinking of the religious or church aspect and how religion properly holds a people together. In Western Europe, Catholicism held people together before the Protestant Reformation. Protestant Christians are rightly called the sectarians because unlike the unity that the Catholic and Orthodox Churches, Protestantism could not help to break into sects. My great grand mother (father's mother) was a pious Southern Baptist, a simple and good woman. That side of the family still goes to to that Baptist church if they live close. My uncle is the drummer (since the modernization) and his wife (my aunt) is the secretary of the church. If my mom had not already taken my sister and me into Mormonism when we moved to the town after my grandmother (father's mother) died I would likely have gone there for church. I wish we had not become Mormon in many ways because I think it drew us from the family since we left Christianity for psuedo-Christian cult. In fact my mother did not come to my baptism into the Catholic Church, but my two aunts did. One aunt said she was glad I was leaving Mormonism for Catholicism, even with her Baptist prejudices against Catholcism because at least Catholicism was Trinitarian or truly Christian. Religion, the Baptist religion, held my paternal line together in the past. But my father's mother did not go to church like her mother, who went piously until she died. Still even most of my local relatives still go there and I think in a since that Baptist "parish" binds them. I think, even without Mormonism I would have left for Catholicism, but I sometimes think being Baptist would have made us closer to our family than being Mormon church. Sometimes I regret my sister went off to Utah for college and ended up marrying a Mormon. He is a great guy and they have a great marriage, but she is so far away and part of that cult. Those people way out there have become her family and I sometimes think she does not have the care for her blood that she should--her relatives by blood and seed. I do not tell her this, but in a way I hate Mormonism for reasons like this. But I am grateful that she had a serious religion because most of her school friends ended up pregnant out of wedlock. Religion, even my families Protestantism, is what held us together in the past. But after the 1950s that slowly started to fade. The aunt and uncle who work at the Baptist church, their daughter did not get married in the church of our ancestors or any church, but got married in some meeting hall. Religion is an important means of binding family. Catholicism and Orthodox are better at that which is why Hispanic and Italian families have stronger familial ties--the church is single and universal. They have a common faith, not individual. Individualism is the daughter of Protestantism.
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« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2014, 05:11:17 PM »

...but there used to be an idea that you put your family before your friends. Friends are important, but they change. Family, even if there is a feud, does not. They still share the same blood.

No offense, but this is one of the most illogical things (save maybe the Cosmological Principle thread) I've read on here in quite a while.

Blood means absolutely nothing. Maybe it's because folks like me and Jason come from different backgrounds than most people on here, but, IME, family will always be the very first ones to stab you in the back. They expect you to give and give, and to sacrifice everything for them, only for them to continually screw you over all on the basis of "blood."

Family does change btw. There are people in my family who haven't spoken to each other in close to 20 years.

The whole caveman "blood" us/them mentality is kinda frightening.
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« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2014, 06:06:06 PM »

...but there used to be an idea that you put your family before your friends. Friends are important, but they change. Family, even if there is a feud, does not. They still share the same blood.

No offense, but this is one of the most illogical things (save maybe the Cosmological Principle thread) I've read on here in quite a while.

Blood means absolutely nothing. Maybe it's because folks like me and Jason come from different backgrounds than most people on here, but, IME, family will always be the very first ones to stab you in the back. They expect you to give and give, and to sacrifice everything for them, only for them to continually screw you over all on the basis of "blood."

Family does change btw. There are people in my family who haven't spoken to each other in close to 20 years.

The whole caveman "blood" us/them mentality is kinda frightening.


I admit it can be taken to extremes, but to say blood means absolutely nothing is not Christian. I am not taking about Michael Corleone's, "Never go against the family." He ends up having his own brother killed. A movie but is shows how some people justify their actions by saying family first. The importance of family values more for different cultures. It is more important to Latin cultures than to Germanic cultures. There are a lot of things that hold people together, but by nature Aristotle tells us man is meant to live in society. We have the greatest duty, next to God, to our family and our country--the two most important human societies in which we live. But ideally what ties the family together is the community of the town or place where they live, I think, and then the Church. That is why the Church must be one, holy, catholic, and apostolic. It can't be sectarian like the Protestants because that leads to division. But as ideal as living in a polis with familial and political duties might be, because man is fallen we sometimes have to put our duties to family or the body politic after God. It's not black and white but I do not think that was what I was pointing out and sorry if it sounded that way. I just find myself at a loss without the ideal connection to my family because of modern society. I know nothing is perfectly ideal in fallen nature, but there was, historically, an importance of family that is lacking today. It has to do with many things, including the mindset of egotism. I myself fail very much at my duties to family because my father has lacked in the proper duties he should have, but I also must remember his office and that he has never done a grave evil in which I must cut him off like scandal must always. 

A certain set of idealism, at long as it is rational, is healthy. We live in a world of extreme rationalism that makes people apathetic to look to a higher state. Was the Republic of Plato idealistic? Yes, as was what the more realistic Aristotle spoke of regarding community. But we can't just go about with, "That's how it is. Not going to change is." Philosophy allows us to question the proper and improper nature of the world. We must just remember that unlike the pagans we do not put tribe or race before God. That is why the stupid white nationalists and racialists are pagan in their mindset, though they try to pretend it is Christian sometimes. The universal church of Christ being Catholic knows neither Jew nor gentile, black or white, king or beggar, rich or poor, only the heart. Maybe it seems I am contradicting myself, but I think the subject at hand is difficult. We by nature love our families. Even the family I hardly know I would die for and protect before because of our tie of blood, but I would not murder for them or do evil. I might in my passion get in a fight like a brother sometimes does (when I should not), but I hope that would not extend to murder.
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« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2014, 06:07:51 PM »

Was the Republic of Plato idealistic?

Great, another person who doesn't understand Plato's Republic. Don't worry, you're in good company with folks like Karl Popper.
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« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2014, 06:29:10 PM »

Was the Republic of Plato idealistic?

Great, another person who doesn't understand Plato's Republic. Don't worry, you're in good company with folks like Karl Popper.

I don't know Karl Popper, but I don't really know how it can be considered idealistic either considering his view that almost all forms of government, even his own hypothetical Republic, would decay and corrupt eventually. My professor taught it that way, and what I thought when I read it. He was pretty pessimistic about the state, and understandably considering his context.
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« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2014, 07:22:56 PM »

Was the Republic of Plato idealistic?

Great, another person who doesn't understand Plato's Republic. Don't worry, you're in good company with folks like Karl Popper.

I admit it. I admit I only read parts and then the unjust "summary" of it. Forgive me for doing any injustice to it. But we must look to the ideal sort of thing we seek, whether in government or family. The ideal mother. No mother is perfect, but she who is closer to what is perfect or ideal is what every mother should look towards. The idea nature of a family and how each member should love one another, first the immediate family and then the extended family. This extension of uncles, aunts, cousins, and in-laws directs us to the perfect earthly society, the body politic or nation. I would avoid using the state here for various reasons. A nation is united under a common cause in the love called philia. But this love we begin to have for our fellow man and our nation in the virtue of patriotism begins in the family. It is not normal to love a queen before a mother of a king before a father. We love our brother and sister before we love our neigbour. Why because of the familiarity and natural affection that Nature plants in us. There are certain people, cultural Marxist or statist some call them, who wish to deny this type of love and would undermine it for the sake of the "common good", as we see in Ender's Game. I am not fond of libertarianism at all because it seems to be a means to anarchy (though maybe I misunderstand them) but there is just as much danger in tyranny of an unlawed people or self-lawed people as there is in a tyrannical monarch. I don't know why I love my family despite so many differences we have in religion and so forth. The love seems simply planted in my heart by familiarity and Nature and I understand it better than I understand patriotism. Agape, or charity, given to us by the Holy Wisdom, teaches us that if family and nation fail us, we have the unity of saints in the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church. Thus even a Russian under the Soviets could love Soviet Russia because he loves God. He could oppose the evils of communism without hating his country as a people who are children of God by the seed of Adam. Christ came to save all, though some or many not wish to be saved. Love is a complicated thing. It is not an emotion and yet there is plenty of emotion involved.
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« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2014, 07:26:46 PM »

Without this American individuality, how many of us would have broken with the churches of our families and ancestors to become Orthodox? How many of us would have even been afforded the opportunity outside such a pluralistic society? If the United States was still a British colony, for example, and the crown decreed only the Anglican church in our lands, how could we have even been Orthodox? So many ironies...

That's a pretty good point.
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« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2014, 09:06:10 PM »

Yes, breaking with a false religion is more important than keeping to it to remain with family or some local identity. But most families, extended, at least do not have a religious identity, unless they are traditional Catholic maybe or Mormon. Or Orthodox from an Orthodox culture like Armenia or Greece. And maybe in mainstream Catholicism, to a degree, Hispanics, though most Hispanics are Catholic for their culture rather than for pious reasons. But maybe I've spent to much time with the trads. I tend to be more fond of Mexican Catholics and Catholics form South America than Catholics who are more WASPish than Catholic. Leaving a trad Catholic family or culturally Catholic family for Eastern Orthodoxy, like Polish, Irish, or Hispanic might be hard. Most white American Catholics could not care less. I think Polish families might have the biggest problem with it because they are so proud to be Polish Roman Catholic and they are, historically, from the part of Europe right on the East/West boarder. Thing is I am still deciding on Orthodoxy though I must lean towards Orthodoxy. Catholicism looks great from a Protestant viewpoint, but a look into the schism shows it is much more complicated than the Catholic apologists make it out to be. The papal issue is just very unclear, especially after Vatican II. I am actually glad I did not find a Catholic wife, especially a trad. I cannot imagine the problems the marriage would have if I was married to some pretty SSPX girl or pious Mexican or Irish Catholic.
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« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2014, 09:53:42 AM »

Was the Republic of Plato idealistic?

Great, another person who doesn't understand Plato's Republic. Don't worry, you're in good company with folks like Karl Popper.

I don't know Karl Popper, but I don't really know how it can be considered idealistic either considering his view that almost all forms of government, even his own hypothetical Republic, would decay and corrupt eventually. My professor taught it that way, and what I thought when I read it. He was pretty pessimistic about the state, and understandably considering his context.

In the Republic Plato isn't trying to give a blueprint for the ideal state; he's trying to prove that justice does exist and is always beneficial. It's the Laws/Nomoi you should be looking at if you want some of Plato's political opinions.
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« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2014, 10:02:40 AM »

I am not fond of libertarianism at all because it seems to be a means to anarchy (though maybe I misunderstand them)

I won't say too much about it lest it ends up in politics, but families wouldn't be any closer if the state legislated in favour of one set of morals. What do you want to do, fine families that don't play board games together? that do  It's more about the culture and people's hearts and minds than the law.
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« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2014, 11:22:23 AM »

Was the Republic of Plato idealistic?

Great, another person who doesn't understand Plato's Republic. Don't worry, you're in good company with folks like Karl Popper.

I don't know Karl Popper, but I don't really know how it can be considered idealistic either considering his view that almost all forms of government, even his own hypothetical Republic, would decay and corrupt eventually. My professor taught it that way, and what I thought when I read it. He was pretty pessimistic about the state, and understandably considering his context.

I read Plato's description of this government as a thought-experiment which is really about getting to the root of the best way to order one's life, in accordance with justice, wisdom, etc. I don't think he expected this government to be realized in a literal sense. I think a lot of discussions about it lose track of the flow of the discussion, with starts with some basic questions about morality (e.g. the Ring of Gyges problem).
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« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2014, 12:26:03 PM »

This is an excellent post.

Frankly I blame Facebook, technology, and narcissism that is induced by technology.  

That already happened in the 80s, when I was a kid.

See the amount of movies, books and cultural production even from that time that goes round the theme "families are disfunctional or hypocrite but your clique of friends is your true family".
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« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2014, 02:18:26 PM »

This is an excellent post.

Frankly I blame Facebook, technology, and narcissism that is induced by technology.  

That already happened in the 80s, when I was a kid.

See the amount of movies, books and cultural production even from that time that goes round the theme "families are disfunctional or hypocrite but your clique of friends is your true family".


Forgive me for citing film/TV again, but true film and TV can be an art, dramatic art. The Breakfast Club shows this perfectly. But there is some truth to that movie, one of my favourites. Why? Their families love them, with the exception of the "bad boy"'s perhaps, but they think that making their kids Harvard bound, pretty and popular, great atheletes makes them somehow great parents. It's great to want you children to go to Harvard and get good grades, but if that is the greatest thing you want for your children it creates distance. This leads to mental illness and suicide. I thought one of the saddest but greatest lessons of the 1980s movie Dead Poet's Society was the suicide of the young man who wanted to be an actor, but whose father completely rejected it on grounds of his needing to go to Harvard and become a doctor. He had to learn the lesson the hard way, finding his son dead. And still he and the superficially conservative school leadership wanted to blame the teacher for the death, when the real cause was a broken family. This broken family has slowly been the result of a lack of religion to hold them together. Religion is very important. It gives the culture a real depth. Think how Christianity perfected Roman and Hellenic culture and built Christendom. Christendom was like a phoenix rising up one the ashes of the dead Rome.
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« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2014, 02:23:33 PM »

I say what I say because @JamesR had a point. The tie of blood is important I think, but often people, like him (as his posts in the past show) have problems within their families. Sometimes friends becomes ones family because mother and father are not providing the proper affection that they should. A dysfunctional family makes people want to look elsewhere. I know that there was a girl I liked that came from a big 14 family trad Catholic family. I liked her because she was beautiful and principled, but she never knew one real reason I desired her is because I hoped, that if things got serious and we married, I could find happiness in her traditional Catholic family, a sense of belonging that I have not known in my own for various reasons. And I think that is the mark of true love. In fact, even now, after we have had a hard parting, I do not wish her ill for the wrong she did me. I wish God to lay the blame on my wrongs against her and hope she can find happiness in some other man. Still though, I think she cannot understand the sense of belonging I wished to find in her and her family in becoming part of them. God can though because He knows and understand all things.
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« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2014, 02:33:19 PM »

Friends are important, but they change. Family, even if there is a feud, does not.

This is basically why I tend to prefer friends over family. Children are growing, getting different education, different career, different salary, different social class, different religion but the family stays the same. At least friends might be changing to the same direction that you do.
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« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2014, 05:44:48 PM »

Friends are important, but they change. Family, even if there is a feud, does not.

This is basically why I tend to prefer friends over family. Children are growing, getting different education, different career, different salary, different social class, different religion but the family stays the same. At least friends might be changing to the same direction that you do.

Yes, which is a good point, but I think there is an importance in ties to blood and seed, at least that is the proper way. It does not always work out because of various faults of family, but we cannot change them. It is the first thing we know, the first society we know. Friends can change as we change but family cannot--they are still family. I think this thought is drawing me too much towards the importance of family in relation to the body politic as a whole and so I think my reasons for entering into this matter of the importance of family are for this. But politics can only be talked about in the part of the forum. In fact simple ties to blood and seed are impossible for humans because we are meant for a larger society. Only libertarians, from what I can tell, and barbarians believe in some importance of liberty and family above nation and law. But I am going to take that to the political part of the forum because I think I have gone too far already but can be excused by the organic nature of the subject.
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« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2014, 12:20:36 AM »

I can tell right away from reading your post that you seem to be under 'cult' mind control and have lost your faith.

Never go back to childhood and equate what happened then to your life now. This is a COMMON tactic of almost all cults. Cults will encourage this use to publically shame you which allows you to surrender to the cult group. They also use this as a way to give you 'answers' to your life. I'm aware of the monthly mormon meetings where they get you to go on stage, without food and tell everyone how God has helped (with person stories mixed in) infront of everyon. This is nothing more than a cult tactic.

This is not a psycological practice either and going back to childhood can often lead a loss of license these days. They also now how limits on how long a patient can even see a psychologist fot this very reason. It's not a beneficial tactic to help someone.

Your chilhood cousin story is VERY similar to a lor of us. But theres no need to go into the past because it doesnt effect today or tomorrow. It's in the past.

Only God knows why these things happened. You'll never use your own logic to figure anything out in your life trust me. Faith is about being comfortable with not knowing the future or why things are how they are. When you lose this, you begin to try to use mans logic to explain life which leads to depression, anxiety, OCD and essentially a curse that effects your life.

There will always be a snake telling you to eat the fruit which gives the knowledge but they are snakes amd liars. Then theres autistics ALL OVER the internet who have no choice but to be confused over life and rationally try figure out with their superior logic. Stay away from them also because they arent good for you in this mindset.
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The above post is intended for discussion purposes and is comprised of my personal opinion.
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