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Author Topic: The Bible explains itself.  (Read 361 times) Average Rating: 0
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Raylight
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« on: January 18, 2014, 05:41:56 PM »

English is not my native language, sorry for the misspellings.

When I was Protestant, I found out that there are plenty of interpretation of the Bible. so many of them. And when I wanted to know which Church I should go to , there wes a Church that doesn't care about Baptism. A Church doesn't even care about the communion " the breaking of bread " and doesn't believe in the presence of the Lord in the communion. another does believe in it. A Church that believes in women becoming leaders in the Church, another doesn't. a Church believes in Trinity, another doesn't. A Church believes that the dead are sleeping until the Judgment day, another that believes they are already in Heaven. and the list goes on and on.

I ended up with the Evangelical Church because of my understanding at that time.

If the " Bible only " dogma works, and the Bible explains itself, or that the Holy Spirit guides all people to interpret the scripture, Why do we have all these denominations inside the Protestant Church ?! Sometimes I think if Luther come back to life and saw what is happening today, I'm really sure he would go and kiss the feet of the Pope to forgive him and allow him back to the Church.  Grin  

So, can a Protestant tell me what he/she thinks ?

Peace.

« Last Edit: January 18, 2014, 05:44:33 PM by Raylight » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2014, 08:18:56 PM »


..there wes a Church that doesn't care about Baptism. A Church doesn't even care about the communion " the breaking of bread " and doesn't believe in the presence of the Lord in the communion. another does believe in it...


Well I'm not a Protestant but I've grown up with it and around me my whole life and would like to chime in if that's ok.

Try to look at it another way - if the Protestants became so big, maybe it means God allowed it to happen in his divine nature (as he has a history of creating religions and moving factions around the earth). Now if God allows all these denominations to happen, what message could that be sending to us or the religious/church world?

Maybe God is saying that denominations are good and that we should have free will when it comes to our faith?

Maybe he found wrong doing in the Catholic Church and created them as a punishment.. an 'overseer' almost. A third party that will carefully watch them (as Protestants are always watching the Vatican very closely). Kind of like a moderator on a forum. If God loves the Catholic Church, he can certainly send people to 'keep them in line.' in order to repair the church and keep it Holy from here on after. This reformation may have be good for them in the long run, as well as the rest of the world.

Quote
If the " Bible only " dogma works, and the Bible explains itself, or that the Holy Spirit guides all people to interpret the scripture, Why do we have all these denominations inside the Protestant Church ?!

Nothing 'works perfectly' in religion because we as flesh/humans rely on interpretation of scripture to create the theology of the church. The people who work on theology must work from their spirit alone to connect with the inspired word of God (scriptures). They need to do the best they can to understand what God/Christ was trying to tell us, or what something ultimately means. This is not an easy task and will continue until end times. For instance, since the Internet, there has been many interpretations of the Bible. The newer interpretations are much better than the old in my opinion. New ways of looking at the standard scriptures, in different context has the ability to change theology. This is one reason why 'bible only' 'doesn't work'.

But the big reason why 'Bible only' does't work is because the theology is not democratic or voted on. Often the theology of these Churches come from a single person who have a pre-determined notion, and then will hunt around the scripture to find evidence of their fleshly desires.

So suppose a theologian has issues with sexual addiction which causes him to sin and repent. He may try to claim that sex is bad and releases the devil in people. Or demons posses you during the action. But to gain validity, they will search scripture to agree with their flesh, NOT the spirit of God. What they'll do is claim that Jesus was born to virgin therefore his mother was free of demons and so was he (it's thought that demons get passed down through generations). Then pull up more evidence to make it make sense. For example Adam and Even did it, their son was a killer. They will then claim that their denomination discourages sex.

The problem with this is like digging a hole. With each new rule, a problem pops up and they need to keep digging themselves deeper. So if sex is bad, then women need to cut their hair short and dress and look like men (often a signature of many cults). Women are not allowed to leave the houses. Wives will be chosen for you by the church leader in order to procreate due to the will of the Church leader. And now it starts to become something that isn't really what Christianity is about.

Or you can say 'ah ha!' Sex is bad, but that's ok because we're all born sinners and as long as you repent you're going to heaven. Well there's a lot of evidence to suggest that. But it has societal ramifications once even those rules get too strict for some people. Then there's a problem. 

Quote
Sometimes I think if Luther come back to life and saw what is happening today, I'm really sure he would go and kiss the feet of the Pope to forgive him and allow him back to the Church.  Grin  

Well here's a deep question, if Catholicism was the one and only Christianity this whole time until now with no denominations, how true to traditional Christianity do you think they would be today? Would they be issuing us 'birth passes' to have kids? Would they be telling us where to work? Would they be playing God and taking away our free will? After all, there's lots of Biblical scripture they can use to back anything they want to do. What we have today is Free Will to chose. Possibly thanks to the reformation which may have been divine and the will of God.

Also here's another note - the US is the most successful country in modern times. Yet, it's a country that has the highest population who believe that the world is only 6000 years old and God created us. A tax-payer funded evolution scientist said - "We are the most industrialized, innovative and rich country in the world, yet almost half of us believe that we were created by God. Why are we so dumb?" -- he didn't realize what he had just said. He proved that belief in God results in success.

A whole country can belong to a church, but if the common person doesn't believe God created us, then at that point you have lost faith in God. The evangelicals can have all the theology they like, but if they follow the 7 laws of Noah and, most importantly, keep the first:

1. Do Not Deny God

Then everything else should hopefully fall in place. My issue with evangelicals is thinking they will not be judged and are guaranteed heaven. Regardless, they hold the torch when it comes to a basic, raw acceptance of YHWY God our creator. However, people in other countries may be told by their Church that science comes first, and then twist around doctrine to make it comply with evolution (although they have not researched into why it's NOT possible). This means they have placed a 'blind faith' in 'science' and their teachings. This causes 'doubt' in the wider public and distrust of religion.  If that's the case world wide, then this first commandment has been broken:

1. “You shall have no other gods before Me."

This is why evolution is so important. YWHY is God the creator. Our God. He told us countless times he created us. If you doubt this and believe in mans version of why we are here, then it is a form of Idol worship which cancels everything else out because you no longer believe in what God is telling your, thus you don't have faith in him. You are automatically excluded from heaven. Yet in America, the faith is strongest from evangelicles (if you use this as a raw measurement).

Using this benchmark to measure raw faith in YHWY God as a basic starting point, lets see how many Americans believe in mans explanation of why we are. Lets see how many American Christians believe in the unproven Darwin theory of evolution (which cancels out our bible and raises doubt in God):

2009 Harris Poll - Believe in Darwins Theory of Evolution:

51% of Catholics
32% of Protestants
80% of Jews*
16% of born-again Christians ('Evangelicals') (Born again is a phrase used by many Protestants to describe the phenomenon of gaining faith in Jesus Christ. It is an experience when everything they have been taught as Christians becomes real, and they develop a direct and personal relationship with God)

So we see that the Evangelical community has the highest faith using this benchmark. There are no other Gods before them telling them how we got here. And get this, there are about 100 million born again in the US! WOW!

So the point of this long post is to reserve judgement and look at both sides of the issue when things have stood the test of time and are part of Gods plan. They may not be Orthodox or Catholic and have different theology, but they still obviously pass certain tests that maybe we can even learn from. Maybe when something seemingly illogical happens, it may be for the good and the will of God.

(*please note that only 20% of Jews in America are Orthodox Jews. it's odd how close it aligns with the stats. You can say that maybe evolution was a way for God to gather stats on how he's doing with them lol.. just kidding.)
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The above post is intended for discussion purposes and is comprised of my personal opinion.
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« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2014, 08:24:37 PM »

I used to be Protestant.  The scripture only and scripture interprets itself ideas are very wrong.  Even scripture shows this.  This belief is the very reason there are thousands of denominations.  I believe a person who is looking for truth had only two choices.  Orthodoxy or Catholicism.  These are the only two Churches who can claim it's origins with the original Church.
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« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2014, 10:20:22 PM »

I used to be Protestant.  The scripture only and scripture interprets itself ideas are very wrong.  Even scripture shows this.  This belief is the very reason there are thousands of denominations.  I believe a person who is looking for truth had only two choices.  Orthodoxy or Catholicism.  These are the only two Churches who can claim it's origins with the original Church.

As well as Oriental Orthodoxy and the Assyrian Church of the East.
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"Do not deceive yourself with idle hopes that in the world to come you will find life if you have not tried to find it in this present world." - Theophanis the Monk

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