Author Topic: About receiving the Lord  (Read 1125 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 21,226
  • Christ is risen!
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #45 on: January 17, 2014, 05:44:04 PM »
Well this individual appears to have some irrational fear of germs, but it could be that individuals like this have a canonical impediment to receiving communion. Ultimately, it shouldn't be any one else's business.

My suggestion to him: try receiving the kinonia on occasions other than the DL or when there is no one else to receive kinonia at the DL.

What a bizarre recommendation.  All it does is create unnecessary work and hardship for the priest without ever getting to the root of the individual's problem.  
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Mor no longer posts on OCNet.  He follows threads, posts his responses daily, occasionally starts threads, and responds to private messages when and as he wants.  But he really isn't around anymore.


Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 21,226
  • Christ is risen!
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #46 on: January 17, 2014, 05:45:46 PM »
Some teacher of the faith somewhere states that a faithful who spurns the holy gifts excommunicates himself.   But I'm really lacking on the specifics there.  Anyone?   

The teaching is correct, obviously, but the description is not enough for me to place it.  Maybe someone else knows. 
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Mor no longer posts on OCNet.  He follows threads, posts his responses daily, occasionally starts threads, and responds to private messages when and as he wants.  But he really isn't around anymore.


Offline orthonorm

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,275
Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #47 on: January 17, 2014, 05:46:56 PM »
I have a simple question:

WHAT HAPPENS IF a baptized Orthodox Christian who fasts and prays often, attends the DL every week and on feasts, and confesses his sins often never receives kinonia?

Why does he do all of this and refrain from receiving Communion? 

He's Greek

LOL!

LOL seconded!

Your story of your first Eucharist in a Cathedral (IIRC) came to mind.
If you have PMed me, the mods have taken my ability to PM away. Please see my email if you wish to contact me during my time of trial.

Offline orthonorm

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,275
Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #48 on: January 17, 2014, 05:50:00 PM »
I know someone just like that. He has a theory that the communicant should not be called the "servant of God" but the "friend of God" and for this reason the way communion is given is doctrinally incorrect.

He also believes that he was secretly and miraculously made a priest after seeing a vision of the Cross and has been known to give people blessings when the real priests aren't looking. He also wears a monastic skoufa (along with a dark suit and turtle neck) and never eats meat.

Are we talking about the same person?

Is he GOC or in another "True Orthodox" group?

Does it matter?

Yes, because people of the bent who are willing to (Mods what word am I allowed to use? The stated rules no longer seem expansive enough given recent moderatorial action) over something a silly as "ecumenism" or a calendar, will likely find something "wrong" wherever they go and keep trying to find that first real church of the genuine Orthodox.
If you have PMed me, the mods have taken my ability to PM away. Please see my email if you wish to contact me during my time of trial.

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,134
  • Scarecrow is watching you
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #49 on: January 17, 2014, 05:51:38 PM »
Well, yeah, but someone with more authority than you or me said it.  That's what I'd like to know. 

Well... If you don't take Communion, you don't take Communion.

Offline jah777

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,066
Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #50 on: January 17, 2014, 05:55:35 PM »
I know someone just like that. He has a theory that the communicant should not be called the "servant of God" but the "friend of God" and for this reason the way communion is given is doctrinally incorrect.

He also believes that he was secretly and miraculously made a priest after seeing a vision of the Cross and has been known to give people blessings when the real priests aren't looking. He also wears a monastic skoufa (along with a dark suit and turtle neck) and never eats meat.

Are we talking about the same person?

Is he GOC or in another "True Orthodox" group?

Does it matter?

well, if I were a better I would bet money on it.  From my experience, such delusion seems epidemic in such groups.

Offline Theophilos78

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,043
Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #51 on: January 17, 2014, 06:11:00 PM »
Well this individual appears to have some irrational fear of germs, but it could be that individuals like this have a canonical impediment to receiving communion. Ultimately, it shouldn't be any one else's business.

My suggestion to him: try receiving the kinonia on occasions other than the DL or when there is no one else to receive kinonia at the DL.

What a bizarre recommendation.  All it does is create unnecessary work and hardship for the priest without ever getting to the root of the individual's problem.  

better than never receiving kinonia.
Longing for Heavenly Jerusalem

Offline minasoliman

  • Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
  • Moderator
  • Toumarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,587
  • Strengthen O Lord the work of Your hands(Is 19:25)
Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #52 on: January 17, 2014, 06:21:01 PM »
Isn't kinonia "economy"? I never heard of the body and blood of Christ as "economy".  He receives Jesus, or Yeshua if you want to maintain some sort of linguistic preference.  He receives Yeshua, not kinonia.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 06:22:53 PM by minasoliman »
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline Theophilos78

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,043
Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #53 on: January 17, 2014, 06:40:10 PM »
Isn't kinonia "economy"? I never heard of the body and blood of Christ as "economy".  He receives Jesus, or Yeshua if you want to maintain some sort of linguistic preference.  He receives Yeshua, not kinonia.

kinonia means communion meal = Lord's supper = Yeshua
Longing for Heavenly Jerusalem

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 21,226
  • Christ is risen!
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #54 on: January 17, 2014, 07:10:43 PM »
What a bizarre recommendation.  All it does is create unnecessary work and hardship for the priest without ever getting to the root of the individual's problem.  

better than never receiving kinonia.

But the only thing preventing him from receiving Communion is himself. 
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Mor no longer posts on OCNet.  He follows threads, posts his responses daily, occasionally starts threads, and responds to private messages when and as he wants.  But he really isn't around anymore.


Offline minasoliman

  • Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
  • Moderator
  • Toumarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,587
  • Strengthen O Lord the work of Your hands(Is 19:25)
Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #55 on: January 17, 2014, 07:15:13 PM »
Isn't kinonia "economy"? I never heard of the body and blood of Christ as "economy".  He receives Jesus, or Yeshua if you want to maintain some sort of linguistic preference.  He receives Yeshua, not kinonia.

kinonia means communion meal = Lord's supper = Yeshua

My mistake...

Next question...why mix Greek with Hebrew?
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 21,226
  • Christ is risen!
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #56 on: January 17, 2014, 07:22:39 PM »
Next question...why mix Greek with Hebrew?

ABA: Anything But Allah
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Mor no longer posts on OCNet.  He follows threads, posts his responses daily, occasionally starts threads, and responds to private messages when and as he wants.  But he really isn't around anymore.


Offline Eastern Mind

  • Hi! I'm Olaf and I like warm hugs!
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 713
Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #57 on: January 17, 2014, 07:23:32 PM »
Next question...why mix Greek with Hebrew?

ABA: Anything But Allah

xD That sounds like an evangelical slogan!
"ALL THE GODS OF THE HINDUS ARE DEMONS HAHAHAHAHA!!"

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 21,226
  • Christ is risen!
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #58 on: January 17, 2014, 07:25:58 PM »
Next question...why mix Greek with Hebrew?

ABA: Anything But Allah

xD That sounds like an evangelical slogan!

You can create an appropriate line of merchandise, but I want a cut of the profits. 
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Mor no longer posts on OCNet.  He follows threads, posts his responses daily, occasionally starts threads, and responds to private messages when and as he wants.  But he really isn't around anymore.


Offline Eastern Mind

  • Hi! I'm Olaf and I like warm hugs!
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 713
Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #59 on: January 17, 2014, 07:28:38 PM »
Next question...why mix Greek with Hebrew?

ABA: Anything But Allah

xD That sounds like an evangelical slogan!

You can create an appropriate line of merchandise, but I want a cut of the profits. 

We could seriously do this, and people would buy it xD Until our priests find out, but it'd be fun while it lasted.
"ALL THE GODS OF THE HINDUS ARE DEMONS HAHAHAHAHA!!"

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,134
  • Scarecrow is watching you
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #60 on: January 17, 2014, 07:45:04 PM »
Next question...why mix Greek with Hebrew?

ABA: Anything But Allah

АББА
Аб’яднанне Бацькоў Беларускасцю Апантаных
Association of Parents Possessed with Belarusianess

Sorry, it's taken.

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 21,226
  • Christ is risen!
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #61 on: January 17, 2014, 08:03:26 PM »
Next question...why mix Greek with Hebrew?

ABA: Anything But Allah

АББА
Аб’яднанне Бацькоў Беларускасцю Апантаных
Association of Parents Possessed with Belarusianess

Sorry, it's taken.

But I didn't stutter. 
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Mor no longer posts on OCNet.  He follows threads, posts his responses daily, occasionally starts threads, and responds to private messages when and as he wants.  But he really isn't around anymore.


Offline Jonathan Gress

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,989
Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #62 on: January 17, 2014, 10:04:00 PM »
I know someone just like that. He has a theory that the communicant should not be called the "servant of God" but the "friend of God" and for this reason the way communion is given is doctrinally incorrect.

He also believes that he was secretly and miraculously made a priest after seeing a vision of the Cross and has been known to give people blessings when the real priests aren't looking. He also wears a monastic skoufa (along with a dark suit and turtle neck) and never eats meat.

Are we talking about the same person?

Is he GOC or in another "True Orthodox" group?

Does it matter?

well, if I were a better I would bet money on it.  From my experience, such delusion seems epidemic in such groups.

What if he were a member of your jurisdiction? What conclusions would you draw from it?

Offline Jonathan Gress

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,989
Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #63 on: January 17, 2014, 10:09:11 PM »
I know someone just like that. He has a theory that the communicant should not be called the "servant of God" but the "friend of God" and for this reason the way communion is given is doctrinally incorrect.

He also believes that he was secretly and miraculously made a priest after seeing a vision of the Cross and has been known to give people blessings when the real priests aren't looking. He also wears a monastic skoufa (along with a dark suit and turtle neck) and never eats meat.

Are we talking about the same person?

Is he GOC or in another "True Orthodox" group?

Does it matter?

Yes, because people of the bent who are willing to (Mods what word am I allowed to use? The stated rules no longer seem expansive enough given recent moderatorial action) over something a silly as "ecumenism" or a calendar, will likely find something "wrong" wherever they go and keep trying to find that first real church of the genuine Orthodox.

Except that if he were, say, in the OCA, hacks like jah777 would dismiss his example as unrepresentative. Somehow freaks and weirdos only count for something if they show up your opposition.

Offline jah777

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,066
Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #64 on: January 21, 2014, 10:35:30 PM »
I know someone just like that. He has a theory that the communicant should not be called the "servant of God" but the "friend of God" and for this reason the way communion is given is doctrinally incorrect.

He also believes that he was secretly and miraculously made a priest after seeing a vision of the Cross and has been known to give people blessings when the real priests aren't looking. He also wears a monastic skoufa (along with a dark suit and turtle neck) and never eats meat.

Are we talking about the same person?

Is he GOC or in another "True Orthodox" group?

Does it matter?

Yes, because people of the bent who are willing to (Mods what word am I allowed to use? The stated rules no longer seem expansive enough given recent moderatorial action) over something a silly as "ecumenism" or a calendar, will likely find something "wrong" wherever they go and keep trying to find that first real church of the genuine Orthodox.

Except that if he were, say, in the OCA, hacks like jah777 would dismiss his example as unrepresentative. Somehow freaks and weirdos only count for something if they show up your opposition.

I can tell by your response that my assumption is probably correct.  I only have seen such severe examples of delusion in various "True Orthodox" groups, and this is easily understandable if one considers the kind of thinking and the particular passions that lead many to join such groups.  Such examples may very well exist in the Orthodox Church as well, I just haven't observed this phenomenon there as I have seen it among the groups that have broken away for one reason or another.

Offline minasoliman

  • Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
  • Moderator
  • Toumarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,587
  • Strengthen O Lord the work of Your hands(Is 19:25)
Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #65 on: January 22, 2014, 01:21:06 AM »
In anticipation that this is going to turn into an ugly debate about Traditionalist vs. Canonical Orthodoxy, I want to remind you all to stay on topic please.  If you like, start a new thread.

Thank you!

Mina
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline yeshuaisiam

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,697
  • A pulling horse cannot kick.
Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #66 on: January 22, 2014, 02:12:52 AM »
I have a simple question:

WHAT HAPPENS IF a baptized Orthodox Christian who fasts and prays often, attends the DL every week and on feasts, and confesses his sins often never receives kinonia?

Why does he do all of this and refrain from receiving Communion? 

because he does not like the way the communion is served in the Orthodox Church.

What about it does he not like?

that everyone takes kinonia from the same spoon

If its about germs, he should just be up front, and plow over anybody who gets in his way!
I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,134
  • Scarecrow is watching you
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #67 on: January 22, 2014, 06:53:43 AM »
If its about germs, he should just be up front, and plow over anybody who gets in his way!

Even before the priest? That would be hard.

Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,195
  • Pray for me, a sinner.
    • Blog
  • Faith: OO - Occidental Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Puerto Rican Orthodox Sobor
Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #68 on: January 22, 2014, 08:29:17 AM »
If its about germs, he should just be up front, and plow over anybody who gets in his way!

Even before the priest? That would be hard.

First person to the spoon wins.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Another blog - http://literarydiktator.blogspot.com/

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,134
  • Scarecrow is watching you
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #69 on: January 22, 2014, 08:40:45 AM »
Well, priests drink directly from the cup. Cannot get before that.