Author Topic: About receiving the Lord  (Read 2034 times)

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Offline Theophilos78

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About receiving the Lord
« on: January 16, 2014, 07:55:01 PM »
I have a simple question:

WHAT HAPPENS IF a baptized Orthodox Christian who fasts and prays often, attends the DL every week and on feasts, and confesses his sins often never receives kinonia?
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Offline Asteriktos

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2014, 08:51:33 PM »
If he is attending liturgy is he not experiencing communion with the body of Christ? Or are you speaking of the Eucharist?

Offline Theophilos78

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2014, 08:53:36 PM »
If he is attending liturgy is he not experiencing communion with the body of Christ? Or are you speaking of the Eucharist?

Yes, if he attends the liturgy from the start to the dismissal but never partakes of Yeshua's Body and Blood...
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Offline Cavaradossi

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2014, 09:03:41 PM »
If he is attending liturgy is he not experiencing communion with the body of Christ? Or are you speaking of the Eucharist?

Yes, if he attends the liturgy from the start to the dismissal but never partakes of Yeshua's Body and Blood...

Then in accordance with the words of Christ, he shall have no life in him.
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2014, 09:05:24 PM »
If he is attending liturgy is he not experiencing communion with the body of Christ? Or are you speaking of the Eucharist?

Yes, if he attends the liturgy from the start to the dismissal but never partakes of Yeshua's Body and Blood...

Then in accordance with the words of Christ, he shall have no life in him.

What about spiritual communion? That would not save that person?
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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2014, 11:36:21 PM »
I have a simple question:

WHAT HAPPENS IF a baptized Orthodox Christian who fasts and prays often, attends the DL every week and on feasts, and confesses his sins often never receives kinonia?

Why does he do all of this and refrain from receiving Communion? 
Quote from: Fr Alexander Schmemann
The Gospel is quite clear: both saints and sinners love God. "Religious" people do not love him, and whenever they can, they crucify him.

Of course, OC.net is not reflective of the Church, but is rather a surreal bubble. I have visited a lot of different parishes around the world and have listened to many hours of AFR...

Offline LBK

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2014, 11:37:45 PM »
I have a simple question:

WHAT HAPPENS IF a baptized Orthodox Christian who fasts and prays often, attends the DL every week and on feasts, and confesses his sins often never receives kinonia?

Why does he do all of this and refrain from receiving Communion? 

You beat me to it ....
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2014, 11:52:14 PM »
Why does he do all of this and refrain from receiving Communion? 

You beat me to it ....

That's because we're awesome! 
Quote from: Fr Alexander Schmemann
The Gospel is quite clear: both saints and sinners love God. "Religious" people do not love him, and whenever they can, they crucify him.

Of course, OC.net is not reflective of the Church, but is rather a surreal bubble. I have visited a lot of different parishes around the world and have listened to many hours of AFR...

Offline JamesR

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2014, 11:54:04 PM »
I have a simple question:

WHAT HAPPENS IF a baptized Orthodox Christian who fasts and prays often, attends the DL every week and on feasts, and confesses his sins often never receives kinonia?

Why does he do all of this and refrain from receiving Communion? 

He's Greek
Until I see the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come, I will not believe.

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2014, 11:58:46 PM »
Why does he do all of this and refrain from receiving Communion? 

He's Greek

That only demonstrates that he's not Mexican, which is an absolute plus, but still irrelevant: I'd still want to receive Communion if I was as prepared as the hypothetical person in the OP, so I'm curious as to what else is going on. 
Quote from: Fr Alexander Schmemann
The Gospel is quite clear: both saints and sinners love God. "Religious" people do not love him, and whenever they can, they crucify him.

Of course, OC.net is not reflective of the Church, but is rather a surreal bubble. I have visited a lot of different parishes around the world and have listened to many hours of AFR...

Offline LBK

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2014, 12:00:26 AM »
Why does he do all of this and refrain from receiving Communion? 

He's Greek

 I'd still want to receive Communion if I was as prepared as the hypothetical person in the OP, so I'm curious as to what else is going on. 

Seconded.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline minasoliman

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2014, 12:03:18 AM »
Why would one get married and have a beautiful banquet with your beloved, only not to embrace Him?
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2014, 08:56:44 AM »
I have a simple question:

WHAT HAPPENS IF a baptized Orthodox Christian who fasts and prays often, attends the DL every week and on feasts, and confesses his sins often never receives kinonia?

Why does he do all of this and refrain from receiving Communion? 

He's Greek

No, not a correct guess. He is neither Greek nor Mexican.  ;D
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2014, 08:58:35 AM »
Why would one get married and have a beautiful banquet with your beloved, only not to embrace Him?

maybe because he would not want others around him at the banquet and would like to be the only person to embrace the beloved ;)
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2014, 08:59:19 AM »
I have a simple question:

WHAT HAPPENS IF a baptized Orthodox Christian who fasts and prays often, attends the DL every week and on feasts, and confesses his sins often never receives kinonia?

Why does he do all of this and refrain from receiving Communion? 

because he does not like the way the communion is served in the Orthodox Church.
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Offline Jonathan Gress

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2014, 09:03:50 AM »
I know someone just like that. He has a theory that the communicant should not be called the "servant of God" but the "friend of God" and for this reason the way communion is given is doctrinally incorrect.

He also believes that he was secretly and miraculously made a priest after seeing a vision of the Cross and has been known to give people blessings when the real priests aren't looking. He also wears a monastic skoufa (along with a dark suit and turtle neck) and never eats meat.

Are we talking about the same person?

Offline Theophilos78

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2014, 09:08:49 AM »
I know someone just like that. He has a theory that the communicant should not be called the "servant of God" but the "friend of God" and for this reason the way communion is given is doctrinally incorrect.

He also believes that he was secretly and miraculously made a priest after seeing a vision of the Cross and has been known to give people blessings when the real priests aren't looking. He also wears a monastic skoufa (along with a dark suit and turtle neck) and never eats meat.

Are we talking about the same person?

Absolutely not.

"the way the kinonia is served" refers to the use of the same spoon for the whole parish.
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2014, 09:11:58 AM »
I have a simple question:

WHAT HAPPENS IF a baptized Orthodox Christian who fasts and prays often, attends the DL every week and on feasts, and confesses his sins often never receives kinonia?

Why does he do all of this and refrain from receiving Communion? 

He's Greek

LOL!
January 23, 2016, 03:47:17 PM   Ad Hominem - "mere foil"   +45

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foil_(literature)

Offline hecma925

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2014, 09:44:15 AM »
I know someone just like that. He has a theory that the communicant should not be called the "servant of God" but the "friend of God" and for this reason the way communion is given is doctrinally incorrect.

He also believes that he was secretly and miraculously made a priest after seeing a vision of the Cross and has been known to give people blessings when the real priests aren't looking. He also wears a monastic skoufa (along with a dark suit and turtle neck) and never eats meat.

Are we talking about the same person?

I think that guy called my office phone a few times.
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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2014, 10:16:12 AM »
Why would one get married and have a beautiful banquet with your beloved, only not to embrace Him?

Because they speak Arabic on the banquet.
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2014, 10:37:35 AM »
Why would one get married and have a beautiful banquet with your beloved, only not to embrace Him?

Because they speak Arabic on the banquet.

ahahahahahaha....  :D ;D :D  NOT funny though  ::)
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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2014, 10:47:51 AM »
I know someone just like that. He has a theory that the communicant should not be called the "servant of God" but the "friend of God" and for this reason the way communion is given is doctrinally incorrect.

He also believes that he was secretly and miraculously made a priest after seeing a vision of the Cross and has been known to give people blessings when the real priests aren't looking. He also wears a monastic skoufa (along with a dark suit and turtle neck) and never eats meat.

Are we talking about the same person?

Is this who I think it is?
Quote from: Fr Alexander Schmemann
The Gospel is quite clear: both saints and sinners love God. "Religious" people do not love him, and whenever they can, they crucify him.

Of course, OC.net is not reflective of the Church, but is rather a surreal bubble. I have visited a lot of different parishes around the world and have listened to many hours of AFR...

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2014, 10:48:26 AM »
I have a simple question:

WHAT HAPPENS IF a baptized Orthodox Christian who fasts and prays often, attends the DL every week and on feasts, and confesses his sins often never receives kinonia?

Why does he do all of this and refrain from receiving Communion? 

because he does not like the way the communion is served in the Orthodox Church.

What about it does he not like?
Quote from: Fr Alexander Schmemann
The Gospel is quite clear: both saints and sinners love God. "Religious" people do not love him, and whenever they can, they crucify him.

Of course, OC.net is not reflective of the Church, but is rather a surreal bubble. I have visited a lot of different parishes around the world and have listened to many hours of AFR...

Offline Theophilos78

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2014, 10:59:16 AM »
I have a simple question:

WHAT HAPPENS IF a baptized Orthodox Christian who fasts and prays often, attends the DL every week and on feasts, and confesses his sins often never receives kinonia?

Why does he do all of this and refrain from receiving Communion? 

because he does not like the way the communion is served in the Orthodox Church.

What about it does he not like?

that everyone takes kinonia from the same spoon
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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2014, 11:04:34 AM »
I have a simple question:

WHAT HAPPENS IF a baptized Orthodox Christian who fasts and prays often, attends the DL every week and on feasts, and confesses his sins often never receives kinonia?

I have a simple answer:

The thing that happens is that such a person does not take communion.

Offline minasoliman

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2014, 11:07:32 AM »
Why would one get married and have a beautiful banquet with your beloved, only not to embrace Him?

maybe because he would not want others around him at the banquet and would like to be the only person to embrace the beloved ;)
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2014, 11:11:18 AM »
I have a simple question:

WHAT HAPPENS IF a baptized Orthodox Christian who fasts and prays often, attends the DL every week and on feasts, and confesses his sins often never receives kinonia?

I have a simple answer:

The thing that happens is that such a person does not take communion.

Simple and true! Thanks!

 ;D :D ;D
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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2014, 02:01:32 PM »
What about it does he not like?

that everyone takes kinonia from the same spoon

What is his objection to that?  How would he prefer it be done? 
Quote from: Fr Alexander Schmemann
The Gospel is quite clear: both saints and sinners love God. "Religious" people do not love him, and whenever they can, they crucify him.

Of course, OC.net is not reflective of the Church, but is rather a surreal bubble. I have visited a lot of different parishes around the world and have listened to many hours of AFR...

Offline Theophilos78

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2014, 02:38:12 PM »
What about it does he not like?

that everyone takes kinonia from the same spoon

What is his objection to that?  How would he prefer it be done? 

old style, similar to the way Roman Catholics receive communion these days
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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2014, 03:13:50 PM »
What is his objection to that?  How would he prefer it be done? 

old style, similar to the way Roman Catholics receive communion these days

I could keep asking questions, but I suspect it doesn't make much difference.  If this person "fasts and prays often, attends the DL every week and on feasts, and confesses his sins often" but is able to consistently refuse to receive Communion over such a small matter, he needs to discuss this with his confessor.  Since all of the things he supposedly does find their fulfillment in the Eucharist, there is a fundamental problem if a spoon presents such an obstacle to union with God, and I'm not sure that the problem is with God or the spoon.     
Quote from: Fr Alexander Schmemann
The Gospel is quite clear: both saints and sinners love God. "Religious" people do not love him, and whenever they can, they crucify him.

Of course, OC.net is not reflective of the Church, but is rather a surreal bubble. I have visited a lot of different parishes around the world and have listened to many hours of AFR...

Offline Iconodule

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #30 on: January 17, 2014, 03:20:05 PM »
Some guy left my parish and started a whole new one because he didn't like the deacon distributing communion.
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But it had not been in Tess's power - nor is it in anybody's power - to feel the whole truth of golden opinions while it is possible to profit by them. She - and how many more - might have ironically said to God with Saint Augustine, "Thou hast counselled a better course than thou hast permitted."
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #31 on: January 17, 2014, 03:25:28 PM »
Some guy left my parish and started a whole new one because he didn't like the deacon distributing communion.

You know what they say about the requirements for a new AA meeting:

You just need two drunks, a coffee pot, and a resentment.

When you apply this seemingly applicable logic to the the advent and growth of the USA, its history and present state aren't so bewildering.
January 23, 2016, 03:47:17 PM   Ad Hominem - "mere foil"   +45

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foil_(literature)

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #32 on: January 17, 2014, 04:09:07 PM »
Some guy left my parish and started a whole new one because he didn't like the deacon distributing communion.

Impressive!

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2014, 04:21:04 PM »
I have a simple question:

WHAT HAPPENS IF a baptized Orthodox Christian who fasts and prays often, attends the DL every week and on feasts, and confesses his sins often never receives kinonia?

Wouldn't he be considered a deviant/innovator, by others in the faith?


Offline orthonorm

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #34 on: January 17, 2014, 04:31:50 PM »
I have a simple question:

WHAT HAPPENS IF a baptized Orthodox Christian who fasts and prays often, attends the DL every week and on feasts, and confesses his sins often never receives kinonia?

Wouldn't he be considered a deviant/innovator, by others in the faith?



He would likely be joined by most others in his behavior or at least it would go unnoticed in all but the most hyperdox of OCA / Evochian parishes.
January 23, 2016, 03:47:17 PM   Ad Hominem - "mere foil"   +45

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foil_(literature)

Offline Theophilos78

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #35 on: January 17, 2014, 04:33:02 PM »
I have a simple question:

WHAT HAPPENS IF a baptized Orthodox Christian who fasts and prays often, attends the DL every week and on feasts, and confesses his sins often never receives kinonia?

Wouldn't he be considered a deviant/innovator, by others in the faith?



Some would do that too!
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #36 on: January 17, 2014, 04:34:26 PM »
I have a simple question:

WHAT HAPPENS IF a baptized Orthodox Christian who fasts and prays often, attends the DL every week and on feasts, and confesses his sins often never receives kinonia?

Wouldn't he be considered a deviant/innovator, by others in the faith?



BTW Poppy, as glad as I am that you are bringing yourself to use English to speak English, you do know these words aren't the typical ones used in this context? I've yet to hear a Christian IRL call anyone a deviant or innovator for some break in faith or practice.
January 23, 2016, 03:47:17 PM   Ad Hominem - "mere foil"   +45

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foil_(literature)

Offline Jonathan Gress

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #37 on: January 17, 2014, 04:45:28 PM »
Well this individual appears to have some irrational fear of germs, but it could be that individuals like this have a canonical impediment to receiving communion. Ultimately, it shouldn't be any one else's business.

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #38 on: January 17, 2014, 04:52:09 PM »
I have a simple question:

WHAT HAPPENS IF a baptized Orthodox Christian who fasts and prays often, attends the DL every week and on feasts, and confesses his sins often never receives kinonia?

Why does he do all of this and refrain from receiving Communion? 

He's Greek

LOL!

LOL seconded!

Offline Theophilos78

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #39 on: January 17, 2014, 05:01:15 PM »
Well this individual appears to have some irrational fear of germs, but it could be that individuals like this have a canonical impediment to receiving communion. Ultimately, it shouldn't be any one else's business.

My suggestion to him: try receiving the kinonia on occasions other than the DL or when there is no one else to receive kinonia at the DL.
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Offline jah777

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #40 on: January 17, 2014, 05:07:59 PM »
I know someone just like that. He has a theory that the communicant should not be called the "servant of God" but the "friend of God" and for this reason the way communion is given is doctrinally incorrect.

He also believes that he was secretly and miraculously made a priest after seeing a vision of the Cross and has been known to give people blessings when the real priests aren't looking. He also wears a monastic skoufa (along with a dark suit and turtle neck) and never eats meat.

Are we talking about the same person?

Is he GOC or in another "True Orthodox" group?

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #41 on: January 17, 2014, 05:16:35 PM »
What is his objection to that?  How would he prefer it be done? 

old style, similar to the way Roman Catholics receive communion these days

I could keep asking questions, but I suspect it doesn't make much difference.  If this person "fasts and prays often, attends the DL every week and on feasts, and confesses his sins often" but is able to consistently refuse to receive Communion over such a small matter, he needs to discuss this with his confessor.  Since all of the things he supposedly does find their fulfillment in the Eucharist, there is a fundamental problem if a spoon presents such an obstacle to union with God, and I'm not sure that the problem is with God or the spoon.     

Some teacher of the faith somewhere states that a faithful who spurns the holy gifts excommunicates himself.   But I'm really lacking on the specifics there.  Anyone?   

Offline Jonathan Gress

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #42 on: January 17, 2014, 05:18:09 PM »
I know someone just like that. He has a theory that the communicant should not be called the "servant of God" but the "friend of God" and for this reason the way communion is given is doctrinally incorrect.

He also believes that he was secretly and miraculously made a priest after seeing a vision of the Cross and has been known to give people blessings when the real priests aren't looking. He also wears a monastic skoufa (along with a dark suit and turtle neck) and never eats meat.

Are we talking about the same person?

Is he GOC or in another "True Orthodox" group?

Does it matter?

Offline mike

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #43 on: January 17, 2014, 05:36:00 PM »
Some teacher of the faith somewhere states that a faithful who spurns the holy gifts excommunicates himself.   But I'm really lacking on the specifics there.  Anyone?   

It's kinda selfexplanatory, isn't it?

I know someone just like that. He has a theory that the communicant should not be called the "servant of God" but the "friend of God" and for this reason the way communion is given is doctrinally incorrect.

He also believes that he was secretly and miraculously made a priest after seeing a vision of the Cross and has been known to give people blessings when the real priests aren't looking. He also wears a monastic skoufa (along with a dark suit and turtle neck) and never eats meat.

Are we talking about the same person?

Is he GOC or in another "True Orthodox" group?

Does it matter?

That would explain stuff.
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Offline Yurysprudentsiya

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Re: About receiving the Lord
« Reply #44 on: January 17, 2014, 05:43:46 PM »
Some teacher of the faith somewhere states that a faithful who spurns the holy gifts excommunicates himself.   But I'm really lacking on the specifics there.  Anyone?   

It's kinda selfexplanatory, isn't it?


Well, yeah, but someone with more authority than you or me said it.  That's what I'd like to know.