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Author Topic: Alternative Families: Polyamory, polygyny, polygamy, polyanythinggoes....  (Read 834 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: January 16, 2014, 01:06:38 PM »

Quote
Janet W. Hardy, a writer, editor and consultant, has published 11 books, including the best-selling, "The Ethical Slut: A Practical Guide to Polyamory, Open Relationships and Other Adventures." She has taught workshops about alternative sexualities and relationships all over the world.

Hmm, how interesting. So what does a baby boomer like Janet think a family unit should/could be? Why, she is happy to give some suggestions based on her experiences....

Quote
Among my own circle of acquaintances, I hold many "alternative families" close to my heart:

-- A man and two women who have been raising their two children together from infancy through high school.

-- Three men who have shared a loving household for nearly 20 years.

-- A "core couple," married for many decades, who have consistently surrounded themselves with long-term, live-in lovers.

-- Two couples who share a duplex and a busy and intermingled sex life.

-- A long-partnered gay man and lesbian woman who together brought a third, lesbian woman into their household because the female half of the pair missed that part of her life.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/01/15/opinion/hardy-plural-marriage/

Lord have mercy to your Church. I can only imagine what it'll be like in 30-40 years when the children of these 'happy/loving' alternative families start demanding their own changes to law & public life to accommodate them!
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« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2014, 01:14:59 PM »

Quote
Janet W. Hardy, a writer, editor and consultant, has published 11 books, including the best-selling, "The Ethical Slut: A Practical Guide to Polyamory, Open Relationships and Other Adventures." She has taught workshops about alternative sexualities and relationships all over the world.

Hmm, how interesting. So what does a baby boomer like Janet think a family unit should/could be? Why, she is happy to give some suggestions based on her experiences....

Quote
Among my own circle of acquaintances, I hold many "alternative families" close to my heart:

-- A man and two women who have been raising their two children together from infancy through high school.

-- Three men who have shared a loving household for nearly 20 years.

-- A "core couple," married for many decades, who have consistently surrounded themselves with long-term, live-in lovers.

-- Two couples who share a duplex and a busy and intermingled sex life.

-- A long-partnered gay man and lesbian woman who together brought a third, lesbian woman into their household because the female half of the pair missed that part of her life.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/01/15/opinion/hardy-plural-marriage/

Lord have mercy to your Church. I can only imagine what it'll be like in 30-40 years when the children of these 'happy/loving' alternative families start demanding their own changes to law & public life to accommodate them!

Trust me, not all baby-boomers share her warped views.
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« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2014, 01:19:14 PM »

The good part is that I always hear those baby boomers complain about the youth.

The generation of '68 must be the worst generation since the time of Noah.
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« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2014, 01:22:53 PM »

The good part is that I always hear those baby boomers complain about the youth.

The generation of '68 must be the worst generation since the time of Noah.

My-my, it's always amusing to see twenty-something Dutch to type something conservative. You people confuse me. Please stick with stereotypes.
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« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2014, 01:30:10 PM »

Almost nobody cares what this person has to say.
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« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2014, 01:37:20 PM »

The good part is that I always hear those baby boomers complain about the youth.

The generation of '68 must be the worst generation since the time of Noah.

My-my, it's always amusing to see twenty-something Dutch to type something conservative. You people confuse me. Please stick with stereotypes.

LOL!  Our dearest Cyrillic is not even a twenty-something yet. Wink

And, I think probably EVERY generation is the worst generation since the time of Noah.  Not a lot changes, really...
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« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2014, 01:47:02 PM »

The good part is that I always hear those baby boomers complain about the youth.

The generation of '68 must be the worst generation since the time of Noah.

My-my, it's always amusing to see twenty-something Dutch to type something conservative. You people confuse me. Please stick with stereotypes.

LOL!  Our dearest Cyrillic is not even a twenty-something yet. Wink

And, I think probably EVERY generation is the worst generation since the time of Noah.  Not a lot changes, really...

The 'previous generations' haven't destroyed the pension system, afaik. If I ever get to retire (thanks for that one, boomers!) there probably won't be much of a system left.

I should keep a list of all the reasons why I dislike the generation that's now keeping the viagra industry running.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 01:48:40 PM by Cyrillic » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2014, 01:53:36 PM »

Almost nobody cares what this person has to say.

And those who do, certainly would engineer her, if she didn't exist.
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« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2014, 01:56:02 PM »

The good part is that I always hear those baby boomers complain about the youth.

The generation of '68 must be the worst generation since the time of Noah.

My-my, it's always amusing to see twenty-something Dutch to type something conservative. You people confuse me. Please stick with stereotypes.

Reactionary is the word you are looking for. The "reactionary as rebel" has a long history and usually populated with the least imaginative of persons. See this site to find many current so called rebels:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 02:09:58 PM by orthonorm » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2014, 02:03:51 PM »

Haha my brother used to give out copies of that "Ethical Slut" book like a gospel.
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« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2014, 02:09:31 PM »

Haha my brother used to give out copies of that "Ethical Slut" book like a gospel.

Is slut the new black?
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« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2014, 02:15:22 PM »

You might be excused for thinking so, given how popular this dumb "reclamation" of the term and concept is with a certain type of (generally younger, but obviously not always) woman these days. Everyone wants to be on the cutting edge of something, I suppose.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2014, 02:17:45 PM »

The good part is that I always hear those baby boomers complain about the youth.

The generation of '68 must be the worst generation since the time of Noah.

My-my, it's always amusing to see twenty-something Dutch to type something conservative. You people confuse me. Please stick with stereotypes.

LOL!  Our dearest Cyrillic is not even a twenty-something yet. Wink

And, I think probably EVERY generation is the worst generation since the time of Noah.  Not a lot changes, really...

The 'previous generations' haven't destroyed the pension system, afaik. If I ever get to retire (thanks for that one, boomers!) there probably won't be much of a system left.

I should keep a list of all the reasons why I dislike the generation that's now keeping the viagra industry running.

And you think I will ever be able to "retire"?  LOL!!!!

The "generation" that's keeping the viagra industry running is Big Pharma with their need to part all those boomers and non-boomers from their $$ who are delusionally  desperate to continue to have wild twenty-something-like sex well into their 80's and 90's with the made up epidemic of erectile dysfunction.


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« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2014, 02:20:50 PM »

You might be excused for thinking so, given how popular this dumb "reclamation" of the term and concept is with a certain type of (generally younger, but obviously not always) woman these days. Everyone wants to be on the cutting edge of something, I suppose.  Roll Eyes

Dude, my neighbors who included some wymyn at the time, were out on their deck. A gaggle of other wymyn were coming up the sidewalk forever dragging their flip-flops and smacking their gum with eyes behind oversized sunglasses.

Anyway, I am out for sec to grab some smog or something, and one of the wymyn in the approaching gaggle calls to the wymyn above me:

Sup, sluts?

After nearly vomiting, I found my way back inside.
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« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2014, 11:01:33 AM »

Quote
Janet W. Hardy, a writer, editor and consultant, has published 11 books, including the best-selling, "The Ethical Slut: A Practical Guide to Polyamory, Open Relationships and Other Adventures." She has taught workshops about alternative sexualities and relationships all over the world.

Hmm, how interesting. So what does a baby boomer like Janet think a family unit should/could be? Why, she is happy to give some suggestions based on her experiences....

Quote
Among my own circle of acquaintances, I hold many "alternative families" close to my heart:

-- A man and two women who have been raising their two children together from infancy through high school.

-- Three men who have shared a loving household for nearly 20 years.

-- A "core couple," married for many decades, who have consistently surrounded themselves with long-term, live-in lovers.

-- Two couples who share a duplex and a busy and intermingled sex life.

-- A long-partnered gay man and lesbian woman who together brought a third, lesbian woman into their household because the female half of the pair missed that part of her life.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/01/15/opinion/hardy-plural-marriage/

Lord have mercy to your Church. I can only imagine what it'll be like in 30-40 years when the children of these 'happy/loving' alternative families start demanding their own changes to law & public life to accommodate them!

Trust me, not all baby-boomers share her warped views.
Unfortunately just enough to turn a once great culture upside-down. Angry
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« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2014, 11:03:16 AM »

The good part is that I always hear those baby boomers complain about the youth.

The generation of '68 must be the worst generation since the time of Noah.
Or perhaps since the time of Lot at least.
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« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2014, 11:07:46 AM »

The good part is that I always hear those baby boomers complain about the youth.

The generation of '68 must be the worst generation since the time of Noah.

My-my, it's always amusing to see twenty-something Dutch to type something conservative. You people confuse me. Please stick with stereotypes.

LOL!  Our dearest Cyrillic is not even a twenty-something yet. Wink

And, I think probably EVERY generation is the worst generation since the time of Noah.  Not a lot changes, really...
I have to disagree with you here JM, there have clearly been more contemptible generations than others throughout the ages.

We just happen to be living in one at an all-time low, soon hitting it's peak.(if that even makes sense)
« Last Edit: January 18, 2014, 11:08:23 AM by Charles Martel » Logged

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« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2014, 11:13:58 AM »

It's one of those situations when you realize that no matter how seductive sexual sin may appear, it ultimately boils down to insanity. At least, that's what it does for me.
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« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2014, 10:16:59 AM »

I get the feeling this sort of thing isn't new and that its been happening all throughout history secretely. That said, polygamy is gonna be the next "Give us our rights movement" after homosexuality has been more or less settled.
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« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2014, 10:51:45 AM »

I get the feeling this sort of thing isn't new and that its been happening all throughout history secretely. That said, polygamy is gonna be the next "Give us our rights movement" after homosexuality has been more or less settled.
The polygamists aren't waiting: they just won in Utah.
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« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2014, 01:06:31 PM »

I get the feeling this sort of thing isn't new and that its been happening all throughout history secretely. That said, polygamy is gonna be the next "Give us our rights movement" after homosexuality has been more or less settled.
The polygamists aren't waiting: they just won in Utah.
I think that's because most other states had never made non-state recognized polygamy illegal. Utah went overboard in trying to stamp out Mormon-inspired polygamy. (And by 'polygamy' I mean any sort of sexual/committed relationship with multiple partners, whether such relationships are recognized by the state or not.)
« Last Edit: January 19, 2014, 01:07:33 PM by Jetavan » Logged

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« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2014, 04:27:32 PM »

That said, polygamy is gonna be the next "Give us our rights movement" after homosexuality has been more or less settled.

+true
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« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2014, 08:46:39 PM »

That said, polygamy is gonna be the next "Give us our rights movement" after homosexuality has been more or less settled.

+true

I believe polygamy is not even an issue biblically.   It was never cited as sinful in our scriptures.  It was practiced by many early Christians as well.  Many people from our Bible were polygamists.

Just for clarification, this is not a wife with multiple husbands.  This is a husband with more than one wife.  (As you would know who the parents were of any children).   I know it's not popular, but it is biblical.  Later church canon is what forbid it.  For what reason I do not know.

I think most men who are happily married, have no need for more wives.  It would be very confusing who to cuddle with - amongst other things.   I also can't imagine the honey-do list.... Plus you'd be in the dog house twice as much and get away with way less mischief around the house. Smiley

But biblically, I don't see the crime, unless you are a bishop.
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« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2014, 08:54:50 PM »

Fwiw I was just saying that I agreed that once homosexuals are not longer discriminated against, we would indeed move on to the next battle against prejudice. I wasn't +truthing what I assume is his/her opinion on whether that's good or bad.  angel
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« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2014, 08:57:24 PM »

Fwiw I was just saying that I agreed that once homosexuals are not longer discriminated against, we would indeed move on to the next battle against prejudice. I wasn't +truthing what I assume is his/her opinion on whether that's good or bad.  angel
Oh, thanks for the clarification. Shocked
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« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2014, 09:02:33 PM »

Fwiw I was just saying that I agreed that once homosexuals are not longer discriminated against, we would indeed move on to the next battle against prejudice. I wasn't +truthing what I assume is his/her opinion on whether that's good or bad.  angel
Oh, thanks for the clarification. Shocked

Yes, forgive if it seems I twisted it that way.  I understood. Smiley

I was just implying that homosexuals are doing sinful acts, whereas polygamy is biblically different.  Don't understand the discrimination against polygamists.
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« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2014, 09:10:59 PM »


Just for clarification, this is not a wife with multiple husbands. 
...which would be polyandry, which, if I'm not mistaken, is not explicitly condemned in the Torah.
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« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2014, 09:18:04 PM »

It was practiced by many early Christians as well.

Only in your imagination. You never produced any proof for this. 

Many people from our Bible were polygamists.

Just for clarification, this is not a wife with multiple husbands.  This is a husband with more than one wife.

Remember the Samaritan woman? She wasn't practicing polyandry (being married to more than one man at the same time), but even so Christ told her the man she was with wasn't hers. The biblical definition of what a relationship between man and wife ought to be is this: Ani ledodi vedodi li = 'I am my beloved's and my beloved is mine.' (Song of Songs 6:3), which is also the mystery of Christ and His Church (Ephesians 5:32). This is absolutely reciprocal - no double standard for men and women.   

But biblically, I don't see the crime, unless you are a bishop.

The priesthood was always held to a higher moral standard, but Christians are supposed to be a "kingdom of priests":

Quote from: Leviticus 21
They must not marry women defiled by prostitution or divorced from their husbands, because priests are holy to their God. Regard them as holy, because they offer up the food of your God. Consider them holy, because I the Lord am holy—I who make you holy.

The woman he (the High Priest) marries must be a virgin. He must not marry a widow, a divorced woman, or a woman defiled by prostitution, but only a virgin from his own people, so that he will not defile his offspring among his people. I am the Lord, who makes him holy.

Also:

Quote from: Malachy 2:13-16
And this you do as well: You cover the Lord’s altar with tears, with weeping and groaning because he no longer regards the offering or accepts it with favor at your hand. You ask, “Why does he not?” Because the Lord was a witness between you and the wife of your youth [SINGULAR, mind you!], to whom you have been faithless, though she is your companion and your wife by covenant. Did not one God make her? Both flesh and spirit are his. And what does the one God desire? Godly offspring. So look to yourselves, and do not let anyone be faithless to the wife of his youth. For I hate divorce, says the Lord, the God of Israel, and covering one’s garment with violence, says the Lord of hosts. So take heed to yourselves and do not be faithless.

I wonder how you understand this passage: is a man bound by covenant only to "the wife of his youth" whom he may not divorce, but he should pass for faithful if he takes as many women as he can support beside her?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 09:25:23 PM by Romaios » Logged
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« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2014, 12:13:24 PM »

It was practiced by many early Christians as well.

Only in your imagination. You never produced any proof for this. 

Many people from our Bible were polygamists.

Just for clarification, this is not a wife with multiple husbands.  This is a husband with more than one wife.

Remember the Samaritan woman? She wasn't practicing polyandry (being married to more than one man at the same time), but even so Christ told her the man she was with wasn't hers. The biblical definition of what a relationship between man and wife ought to be is this: Ani ledodi vedodi li = 'I am my beloved's and my beloved is mine.' (Song of Songs 6:3), which is also the mystery of Christ and His Church (Ephesians 5:32). This is absolutely reciprocal - no double standard for men and women.   

But biblically, I don't see the crime, unless you are a bishop.

The priesthood was always held to a higher moral standard, but Christians are supposed to be a "kingdom of priests":

Quote from: Leviticus 21
They must not marry women defiled by prostitution or divorced from their husbands, because priests are holy to their God. Regard them as holy, because they offer up the food of your God. Consider them holy, because I the Lord am holy—I who make you holy.

The woman he (the High Priest) marries must be a virgin. He must not marry a widow, a divorced woman, or a woman defiled by prostitution, but only a virgin from his own people, so that he will not defile his offspring among his people. I am the Lord, who makes him holy.

Also:

Quote from: Malachy 2:13-16
And this you do as well: You cover the Lord’s altar with tears, with weeping and groaning because he no longer regards the offering or accepts it with favor at your hand. You ask, “Why does he not?” Because the Lord was a witness between you and the wife of your youth [SINGULAR, mind you!], to whom you have been faithless, though she is your companion and your wife by covenant. Did not one God make her? Both flesh and spirit are his. And what does the one God desire? Godly offspring. So look to yourselves, and do not let anyone be faithless to the wife of his youth. For I hate divorce, says the Lord, the God of Israel, and covering one’s garment with violence, says the Lord of hosts. So take heed to yourselves and do not be faithless.

I wonder how you understand this passage: is a man bound by covenant only to "the wife of his youth" whom he may not divorce, but he should pass for faithful if he takes as many women as he can support beside her?

Why do I have to prove history to you?

Google out "Early Christian Polygamy", or read Eusebius's lost work.  This is historically common knowledge.

You quote song of songs, which is often attributed to Solomon.  He had many wives.   This is not in context with the mindset of polygamy.  The wife is his, he is is wife's, but he has several wives.  - This is a Polygamy mindset.

I don't see how discussing women's virginity has anything to do with polygamy.  If she is a virgin he can marry her.   If later he finds another virgin and wants to marry, he can marry her. 

You quote "The wife of your youth" noting it is singular.   You need to research polygamy better, as men who marry multiple wives typically don't marry all of them at once.  The wife of somebody's youth very well could support polygamy, as more wives come later in life.

On a side note, in today's world, I totally see there may be a need for polygamy again, especially amongst Christians.   I am seeing in almost every church the female body of the church being about 33% larger in attendance than males.   Many women come and say "I wish my husband would".   It's sad.    Lots of single mothers that are Christians looking for a good man who is a Christian.   If there is an 18 year old girl with a child, and a married couple with children who would accept her as a sister-wife, and give her a stable Christian life, supper at the table, a home, and love, I guess I would support it.   And why not, many 18 year old men (or close in age) don't want to marry an 18 year old girl with a child already.

Usually those types of girls have to "settle" for a 40 year old perv that wants to boss her around who has already had a divorce.  I'd say it's better she marry into a stable family with good support an values.

Sorry my friend, but Polygamy is part of early Christianity no matter how much you want to cover it up.  I do not see it as a sin.  Canon (men's canon) states otherwise.   This is a subject I've done a very in depth study on as we knew Mormons who practiced it.  The conclusion from the study is that it was practiced by some (moderate) early Christians, but not everybody.   
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« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2014, 12:23:51 PM »

   If there is an 18 year old girl with a child, and a married couple with children who would accept her as a sister-wife, and give her a stable Christian life, supper at the table, a home, and love, I guess I would support it.   And why not, many 18 year old men (or close in age) don't want to marry an 18 year old girl with a child already.

What the heck am I reading?

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« Reply #30 on: January 21, 2014, 12:57:01 PM »

   If there is an 18 year old girl with a child, and a married couple with children who would accept her as a sister-wife, and give her a stable Christian life, supper at the table, a home, and love, I guess I would support it.   And why not, many 18 year old men (or close in age) don't want to marry an 18 year old girl with a child already.

What the heck am I reading?

High fantasy. Watch for the dragons. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2014, 01:07:16 PM »

I'm sitting here looking at my OSB and can't find any instances of polygamy in the NT.

Nor have I noticed a preponderance of females in the Orthodox Church. More a bunch of 20-30 y.o. guys griping about the dearth of Orthodox young women.

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« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2014, 01:24:11 PM »

Thanks to the OP. This article is funny nonsense but it shows something. She's so into her relativism that she cannot imagine that there is a proper type of family, the nuclear family as she calls it--with a mom, a dad, and kids. These liberals are like the conservative libertarians and often have many of the same principles of an excessive liberty where rule of law over life is thrown away for personal liberty. Because this woman takes the ideas of the Enlightenment to their logical conclusion she thinks that marital union is subject to the opinions of those who love--whether homosexuals or those who wish to take more than one wife. The libertarians tend to be conservative, but they, too think that liberty is above certain natural or divine laws. The natural and divine law must be written in the human laws, forbidding sodomy and polygamy because they are forbidden by God. Yes, God forbids them and that is what matters. You do not have to be argue for theocracy to argue this. In fact Christianity is not theocratic like Islam tends to be because Christ said, "Give to Caesar what is Cesar and to God what is God's." But the long rule of Christendom, both East and West, shows that laws should be Christian.

Let's look to something before the liberal revolution of the 18th century if we wish to understand proper Christian government. My own knowledge of this tends to be more Western and Catholic, but I know for a fact that the East, especially Russia, was very Christian in its government. There was something very sacred in the office of the Russian tsar, and even in the smaller Orthodox kingdoms this idea of false liberty was not known, even in republics. Maybe we see a more strong idea of Christian law in the West because of the papal authority, but with Constantine there was a trump of God's law over man's law. The law of the pagans fell as kings converted. But to tell this to this woman would be casting pearls before swine. I guess now we have to live like early Christians, knowing we live under something worse than the pagan Romans who at least had a sense of certain natural law, even in their hedonism. I think we all know that sinful unions should not be allowed by law and that our progression towards legal homosexual and marriage of multiple spouses is a decline into a sin that will call for the wrath of God like upon Sodomy. In Catholicism there is a call for the Kingship of Christ in the world, that is the union of the Christian faith and secular rule. The two are upon the whole opposed St. John tells us in his Apocalypse, so this should really not surprise us, but Constantine is a saint in the Eastern Church for a reason. Rulers in Europe became Christian for a reason.
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« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2014, 01:26:29 PM »

Well, well... lookie here...

http://www.elizabethesther.com/2011/04/polygamy-a-new-trend-for-christians.html
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« Reply #34 on: January 21, 2014, 01:41:25 PM »

If there is an 18 year old girl with a child, and a married couple with children who would accept her as a sister-wife, and give her a stable Christian life, supper at the table, a home, and love, I guess I would support it.   And why not, many 18 year old men (or close in age) don't want to marry an 18 year old girl with a child already.

+

Quote
Usually those types of girls have to "settle" for a 40 year old perv that wants to boss her around who has already had a divorce.  I'd say it's better she marry into a stable family with good support an values.

Wink

Quote
Canon (men's canon) states otherwise. 

I love how you invoke "canon" when it comes to condemning the Ecumenical Patriarchate for its involvement in the ecumenical movement, but when it comes to polygamy, suddenly "canon" is "men's canon", of little value in determining normative Christian practice.   
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« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2014, 02:52:27 PM »


More right wing Catholic scribbling of the mainstream Catholic blogsphere. I mean Shea is bad enough and here she goes quoting him and thanking him for inspiration, writing just like him with that way of condemning something without condemning something. I mean she attempts to make an argument  against sola scriptura but the whole piece is an emotional and incoherent piece that proves nothing.

P1: Martin Luther approved of polygamy based on personal interpretation of Scripture
P2: Protestants believe in personal interpretation of Scripture over Church interpretation
THEREFORE, Protestants approve of polygamy, at least in theory.

I mean am I really being unfair and summing up her argument. And she never answers her question but ends with another fallacy of quoting something but not even really giving support to the quote to give context to those might disagree with her. I mean even if this was not supposed ot be a formal argument her rhetoric is pathetic and childish, just like Shea's.
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« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2014, 03:21:58 PM »

I'm sitting here looking at my OSB and can't find any instances of polygamy in the NT.

Nor have I noticed a preponderance of females in the Orthodox Church. More a bunch of 20-30 y.o. guys griping about the dearth of Orthodox young women.


Y. Is right there .  The phenomenon you describe only exists in American convert enclaves, otherwise women are way more likely to come to church in larger numbers than men.
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« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2014, 05:13:44 PM »

I'm sitting here looking at my OSB and can't find any instances of polygamy in the NT.

Nor have I noticed a preponderance of females in the Orthodox Church. More a bunch of 20-30 y.o. guys griping about the dearth of Orthodox young women.


Y. Is right there .  The phenomenon you describe only exists in American convert enclaves, otherwise women are way more likely to come to church in larger numbers than men.

Perhaps so, or it may be a regional thing, since I haven't noticed it in either the Greek or Antiochian parishes that I've attended.
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« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2014, 05:25:36 PM »

I'm sitting here looking at my OSB and can't find any instances of polygamy in the NT.

Nor have I noticed a preponderance of females in the Orthodox Church. More a bunch of 20-30 y.o. guys griping about the dearth of Orthodox young women.


Y. Is right there .  The phenomenon you describe only exists in American convert enclaves, otherwise women are way more likely to come to church in larger numbers than men.

Perhaps so, or it may be a regional thing, since I haven't noticed it in either the Greek or Antiochian parishes that I've attended.

Up here in old rust belt ethnic land, north of the Mason Dixon line, the babas and yiayias have always outnumbered the men by far. Good thing because they work harder to keep things going for the most part! The men just complain more. (I'm kidding, I'm kidding....)  Wink Wink
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« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2014, 08:19:48 PM »

Why do I have to prove history to you?

Google out "Early Christian Polygamy", or read Eusebius's lost work.  This is historically common knowledge.

I'm talking mainstream apostolic Christianity (the Great Church), not the fringe sectarian and often heretical groups you are so fond of. Those I am weary of even calling Christians, since most of them didn't believe Christ was God incarnate. 

You quote song of songs, which is often attributed to Solomon.  He had many wives.   This is not in context with the mindset of polygamy.  The wife is his, he is is wife's, but he has several wives.  - This is a Polygamy mindset.

Hardly. Truly I say to you - the Song of Songs has little (if anything) to do with the historical Solomon. It's much, much later. It has Persian loan words (pardes - "paradise" in 4:13) and its language is influenced by Aramaic, all of which clearly points to a post-exilic date of composition. In the time of Rabbi Akiva, it was still being sung in the taverns... It was probably the very last book to make it into the OT canon, despite being rejected by many as impious erotic chansonette or not containing the name of God at all.

I don't see how discussing women's virginity has anything to do with polygamy.  If she is a virgin he can marry her.   If later he finds another virgin and wants to marry, he can marry her.

Right - can you point out one example of Levitic priest from the OT who had more than one wife?   

On a side note, in today's world, I totally see there may be a need for polygamy again, especially amongst Christians.   I am seeing in almost every church the female body of the church being about 33% larger in attendance than males.   Many women come and say "I wish my husband would".   It's sad.    Lots of single mothers that are Christians looking for a good man who is a Christian.   If there is an 18 year old girl with a child, and a married couple with children who would accept her as a sister-wife, and give her a stable Christian life, supper at the table, a home, and love, I guess I would support it.   And why not, many 18 year old men (or close in age) don't want to marry an 18 year old girl with a child already.

It's hilarious how one can come up with such preposterous solutions for "worrisome" church demographics.

BTW "sister-wife" is not what you think it is. Not even in the polygamist Ancient Near East. It's a nobility title that men of higher extraction gave their consorts - see Abraham calling Sarah his "sister" (a name he would never have called Hagar or Keturah) or the Pharaos who bore the title of philadelphoi. Or Song of Songs 4:10 - "How delightful is your love, my sister, my bride!" 

Sorry my friend, but Polygamy is part of early Christianity no matter how much you want to cover it up.

Again - only in your imagination. And among the Nicolaites.
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