Author Topic: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing  (Read 6603 times)

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Offline PJ26

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Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« on: January 15, 2014, 07:51:10 PM »
I saw this story this evening about Cardinal O'Malley of Boston at his own request receiving a baptismal reaffirmation blessing from a female Methodist minister.

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/01/cardinal-omalleys-methodist.html

It reminded me a lot of when then Cardinal Bergoglio knelt to receive a blessing from a Lutheran minister.

I'm not an ecumenist and I find both highly inappropriate.  But I'm wondering if anything similar has ever happened with an Orthodox bishop requesting a Protestant blessing and if so, what was the reaction?

Thanks.

Offline LBK

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2014, 07:57:10 PM »
IIRC there was a recent case of a Romanian bishop who took communion at an Eastern Catholic church. He narrowly escaped being defrocked.
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Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2014, 08:08:03 PM »
It seems the most humble is what Jesus described as the greatest in his Kingdom, so that would include actions such as these.

Jesus said: He that would be greatest among you, let him become the servant of all (Mr 9:35), the rule of true greatness.

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary:

Mt 18:1-6 Christ spoke many words of his sufferings, but only one of his glory; yet the disciples fasten upon that, and overlook the others. Many love to hear and speak of privileges and glory, who are willing to pass by the thoughts of work and trouble. Our Lord set a little child before them, solemnly assuring them, that unless they were converted and made like little children, they could not enter his kingdom. Children, when very young, do not desire authority, do not regard outward distinctions, are free from malice, are teachable, and willingly dependent on their parents. It is true that they soon begin to show other dispositions, and other ideas are taught them at an early age; but these are marks of childhood, and render them proper emblems of the lowly minds of true Christians. Surely we need to be daily renewed in the spirit of our minds, that we may become simple and humble, as little children, and willing to be the least of all. Let us daily study this subject, and examine our own spirits.
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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2014, 08:13:34 PM »
It reminded me a lot of when then Cardinal Bergoglio knelt to receive a blessing from a Lutheran minister.

This is what happens when "orthodoxy" is defined in terms of the whims of the current man in white.  I realise the official texts of the Roman Catholic Church do not define it in this way on paper, but it is certainly how it plays out in real life.   

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2014, 08:20:01 PM »
It reminded me a lot of when then Cardinal Bergoglio knelt to receive a blessing from a Lutheran minister.

This is what happens when "orthodoxy" is defined in terms of the whims of the current man in white.  I realise the official texts of the Roman Catholic Church do not define it in this way on paper, but it is certainly how it plays out in real life.   

The lack of consistency from one RC Bishop to another and from one pope to another is one reason why I decided to look East. I was looking for the Holy Faith that was once delivered by Christ to His Apostles ... and that Holy Faith is preserved in Holy Orthodoxy.
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2014, 08:53:32 PM »
These are views of the this world, typical prejudiced views, he humbled himself and they laugh at him.

I say he had way more faith than most to do that.

Or he had a more evil intent, which only God can know.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 08:54:31 PM by Sinful Hypocrite »
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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2014, 08:59:59 PM »
Yeah, because Scripture and the constant witness of every form of ecclesiastical tradition considered individually and as a whole must be held hostage to an erroneous application of Matthew 7.1.   

Offline Regnare

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2014, 09:09:14 PM »
Even setting aside the ecumenical issue, since when does baptism need to be reaffirmed?
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Offline Antonis

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2014, 09:17:41 PM »
Even setting aside the ecumenical issue, since when does baptism need to be reaffirmed?
For the warm and fuzzy feeling.
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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2014, 09:30:00 PM »
Even setting aside the ecumenical issue, since when does baptism need to be reaffirmed?
For the warm and fuzzy feeling.

Not very sober either.

It is best to heed the advice of St. Peter: Be sober, be watchful, for the adversary, the devil roams about the world seeking whom he may devour; resist him firm in the faith.

The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2014, 12:40:42 AM »
Cardinal Bergoglio is pope francis.

Offline Auryn

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2014, 01:36:53 AM »
I saw this.  Ecumaniacs.  It is not Catholic to do stuff like this but since Vatican II it suddenly is.  Just more hypocrisy from these bishops, including Pope Francis.
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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2014, 02:27:17 AM »
And they wonder why people go to the SSPX.
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Offline Auryn

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2014, 02:41:18 AM »
And they wonder why people go to the SSPX.

I don't wonder heh ;)
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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2014, 04:37:33 AM »
IIRC, Metropolitan Augustin of Germany did something similar year (or two ago). And nothing happened.
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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2014, 11:31:32 AM »
This ecumenical stuff is garbage. I would never let a protestant minister bless me.

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2014, 11:45:40 AM »
I saw this story this evening about Cardinal O'Malley of Boston at his own request receiving a baptismal reaffirmation blessing from a female Methodist minister.

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/01/cardinal-omalleys-methodist.html

It reminded me a lot of when then Cardinal Bergoglio knelt to receive a blessing from a Lutheran minister.

I'm not an ecumenist and I find both highly inappropriate.  But I'm wondering if anything similar has ever happened with an Orthodox bishop requesting a Protestant blessing and if so, what was the reaction?

Thanks.

You are correct, it is highly inappropriate.  But, how do you convey this to the protestant side of the aisle without an embarrassment?
Was the blessing spontaneous or as you say requested?      If it was requested, ecumenists or not,  it is definitely out of order.   

Offline JoeS2

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2014, 11:47:17 AM »
I saw this.  Ecumaniacs.  It is not Catholic to do stuff like this but since Vatican II it suddenly is.  Just more hypocrisy from these bishops, including Pope Francis.

And yet it continues to happen.  Are bishops educating their parishes to stop this nonsense?

Offline PJ26

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2014, 02:27:59 PM »
@ JoeS2

The article indicates that he specifically asked her to bless him.  I could understand maybe if she did it on her own and he was caught off guard and not knowing what to do or not wanting to embarrass her he went along with it.  It's the fact he asked for it on his own that is most disturbing to me. 

It's also disturbing as the article states that last year when Benedict was pope, Cardinal O'Malley was attending Latin masses and giving eulogies for pro-lifers, but now that we have a pope telling us that we are "obsessed" with the issue of abortion and who himself as cardinal knelt for a Protestant blessing, O'Malley goes along.  Cardinal Burke seems to be the only member of the Catholic hierarchy who shows any kind of courage and consistency.

How do these men look themselves in the mirror?  Where is their sense of pride? Of doing what they should do regardless of who the current bishop of Rome is?  This is precisely the sort of thing that has me converting to either Orthodoxy or the SSPX.  It's just gotten to a point that I can't handle it any more... :(

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2014, 02:36:43 PM »
This ecumenical stuff is garbage. I would never let a protestant minister bless me.

It is difficult when relatives are protestant.

My mom likes to say prayers and bless me with her charismatic style of praying.
It is so awkward.

I know Orthodox Christians whose parents are protestant ministers.  ::)
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2014, 02:43:06 PM »
It reminded me a lot of when then Cardinal Bergoglio knelt to receive a blessing from a Lutheran minister.

This is what happens when "orthodoxy" is defined in terms of the whims of the current man in white.  I realise the official texts of the Roman Catholic Church do not define it in this way on paper, but it is certainly how it plays out in real life.   

The lack of consistency from one RC Bishop to another and from one pope to another is one reason why I decided to look East. I was looking for the Holy Faith that was once delivered by Christ to His Apostles ... and that Holy Faith is preserved in Holy Orthodoxy.

Don't look at the NT, it is going to show you that no one agreed from the beginning on a lot of things. Of course it gets a neat resolution winners writing history and all. If you are going to demand agreement among Bishops for a Church that is more than a small group of garage parishes that have little more in common than the rejection of the complexities of another Church, then you going to end up well, in the alphabet soup of the first true orthodoxy.

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2014, 02:45:18 PM »
Even setting aside the ecumenical issue, since when does baptism need to be reaffirmed?
For the warm and fuzzy feeling.

Not very sober either.

It is best to heed the advice of St. Peter: Be sober, be watchful, for the adversary, the devil roams about the world seeking whom he may devour; resist him firm in the faith.

Words from a man called Satan by Christ and for whom St. Paul was at least at one time such an adversary, to whom, according to St. Paul, he capitulated.

It's complicated as you noted about the having Protestant relatives who just might be ministers.

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2014, 02:46:59 PM »
This is precisely the sort of thing that has me converting to either Orthodoxy or the SSPX.

As I posted above one Orthodox bishop did exactly the same.
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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2014, 02:47:11 PM »
Behavior like this is depressing to see, but there really is nothing that a layman can do to stop it.
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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2014, 02:49:08 PM »
This is precisely the sort of thing that has me converting to either Orthodoxy or the SSPX.

As I posted above one Orthodox bishop did exactly the same.

And have done worse. People scrutinizing their Bishops to maintain the Church is good. In order to break it, bad. Or so you would think an earnest Christian would hold to.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 03:14:14 PM by orthonorm »

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2014, 02:53:20 PM »
I saw this.  Ecumaniacs.  It is not Catholic to do stuff like this but since Vatican II it suddenly is.  Just more hypocrisy from these bishops, including Pope Francis.

Ecumenism is probably one of the biggest barriers for me becoming RC. Especially in regards to how RCs view Judaism and Islam.
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Offline PJ26

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2014, 03:10:54 PM »
@ Michal Kalina

So are you suggesting that I join the SSPX?   ;)

I would expect to find that an Orthodox bishop somewhere might occasionally do something like this.  We are all human and as such we do stupid things.  But that's why I was curious to know if such a thing happened what was the result. 

From the outside looking in, it seems to me that the Orthodox take such things much more seriously.  I remember on another thread, Fr. Morris (?) talking about how in the rite of ordination the bishop tells the new priest to be cautious to whom he gives the Eucharist, because he will have to answer for it someday; that compared with Catholic bishops and priests who will give Communion to anyone these days. 

Is O'Malley a rogue bishop or part of a trend that started 50 years ago and is now coming to full flower in Francis?  I tend to think it is the latter which has me running for the exit...  :o

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2014, 03:11:22 PM »
This ecumenical stuff is garbage. I would never let a protestant minister bless me.

What would you do? Shout aloud "ANATHEMA"?
I just need to find out how to say it in Slavonic!

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2014, 03:16:01 PM »
This ecumenical stuff is garbage. I would never let a protestant minister bless me.

What would you do? Shout aloud "ANATHEMA"?

People bless me a lot. Especially, black women with very sunny dispositions. I am not going to argue with Tasha every morning about her ecclesial powers.

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2014, 03:54:05 PM »
This ecumenical stuff is garbage. I would never let a protestant minister bless me.

It is difficult when relatives are protestant.

My mom likes to say prayers and bless me with her charismatic style of praying.
It is so awkward.

I know Orthodox Christians whose parents are protestant ministers.  ::)

I would accept it in the spirit it was given.  It would be wrong to cause hard feelings over this.  Its like chicken soup, it couldn't hurt.  Smile and walk away.

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2014, 03:56:10 PM »
I know Orthodox Christians whose parents are protestant ministers.  ::)

We all know. Metropolitan Tikhon's MOTHER is an Anglian priest (or Methodist, Episcopalian, Lutheran, sort of, I do not undress in those all denominations).
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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #31 on: January 16, 2014, 04:14:21 PM »
I know Orthodox Christians whose parents are protestant ministers.  ::)

We all know. Metropolitan Tikhon's MOTHER is an Anglian priest (or Methodist, Episcopalian, Lutheran, sort of,I do not undress in those all denominations).

I should hope not.

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #32 on: January 16, 2014, 04:14:47 PM »
People bless me a lot. Especially, black women with very sunny dispositions. I am not going to argue with Tasha every morning about her ecclesial powers.

:)

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #33 on: January 16, 2014, 04:25:30 PM »
This ecumenical stuff is garbage. I would never let a protestant minister bless me.

What would you do? Shout aloud "ANATHEMA"?

People bless me a lot. Especially, black women with very sunny dispositions. I am not going to argue with Tasha every morning about her ecclesial powers.

"Ecclesial powers" sound fairly Star Wars-ish. I advise not to argue with her lest she'd find your lack of faith disturbing.
I just need to find out how to say it in Slavonic!

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #34 on: January 16, 2014, 04:26:40 PM »
I should hope not.

It's a Podlachian idiom. Funny to share with people that do not know it.
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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #35 on: January 16, 2014, 04:28:51 PM »
I know Orthodox Christians whose parents are protestant ministers.  ::)

We all know. Metropolitan Tikhon's MOTHER is an Anglian priest (or Methodist, Episcopalian, Lutheran, sort of, I do not undress in those all denominations).

They do odd things in those denominations, but I think you mean you don't distinguish between them?

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2014, 04:30:12 PM »
I should hope not.

It's a Podlachian idiom. Funny to share with people that do not know it.

I thought it was a typo.  Your answer is better.  :)

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #37 on: January 16, 2014, 04:40:37 PM »
I should hope not.

It's a Podlachian idiom. Funny to share with people that do not know it.

I thought it was a typo.  Your answer is better.  :)

As my dad used to say when I was a kid about certain sayings in 'ponashemu' (Rusyn) - ' They lose something in English....."   ;)

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2014, 06:51:34 PM »
I would not allow a Mormon "clergyman" to bless me. I would let them pray for me and even offer a prayer in my presence and would bow my head (muttering the Hail Mary to myself) but if I am on my deathbed I will trust myself to the mercy of God before the blessing of Satan. "The gods of the Gentiles are devils" Seriously, this is worse than some ignorant layman allowing some hospital clergyman to come in an pray over him. This is public scandal and it s not only widespread, but encouraged by Rome itself. Meanwhile, retard bloggers like Mark Shea dismiss the criticisms of certain trads as uncharitable. This seems typical of the high payed lay theologian market of EWTN and Catholic Answers. I blame them for a lot of the conservative nonsense among the American Catholic laity who will not get up and speak out. Those who do are silenced and have a small voice. They have no choice but to run off to the SSPX to find serious communion with Catholics who want to fight for their faith.

If I may say something, even if you are a Catholic who believes in the supreme authority of the Roman Pontiff, do you believe that the respect you we his office and authority is so absolute that you can not speak harshly of him and the bishops? I think, among American Catholics at least, there is the tendency to just follow authority because it has a hat and robe. I do not know about the pathological tendencies of European Catholics, however. I just remember always being told when speaking out against this that "He's a bishop, blah, blah, blah." I remember saying St. Paul criticized St. Peter once and a friend said, "But you're not St. Paul." Ha! No, but we should strive to be. Typical response when you make a rational point against public evil that these butt-kissers tell you something like that. To just be good. Being a goody-two shoe is not virtuous. It's worse than being rebellious in a way because the rebel has courage. The follower who is a goody two shoe is a coward.
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #39 on: January 16, 2014, 06:57:56 PM »
The orthodox nicely concelebrated with the Episcopalians at the former met. Jonah's father funeral. That's what it's said on Monomakhos.
"I saw a miracle where 2 people entered church one by baptism and one by chrismation. On pictures the one received by full baptism was shinning in light the one by chrismation no."

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #40 on: January 16, 2014, 07:00:46 PM »
Meanwhile, retard bloggers like Mark Shea dismiss the criticisms of certain trads as uncharitable.

Why, I wonder?

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #41 on: January 16, 2014, 07:01:02 PM »
Schori's mom converted to Orthodoxy. I wonder what happened at that funeral...
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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #42 on: January 16, 2014, 07:10:57 PM »
The orthodox nicely concelebrated with the Episcopalians at the former met. Jonah's father funeral. That's what it's said on Monomakhos.

Concelebrated with heretics?

 ::)

Met. Jonah lost his father recently?

His sister also died not too long ago.

May their memories be eternal.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 07:36:50 PM by Maria »
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #43 on: January 16, 2014, 07:22:20 PM »
I would not allow a Mormon "clergyman" to bless me. I would let them pray for me and even offer a prayer in my presence and would bow my head (muttering the Hail Mary to myself) but if I am on my deathbed I will trust myself to the mercy of God before the blessing of Satan. "The gods of the Gentiles are devils" Seriously, this is worse than some ignorant layman allowing some hospital clergyman to come in an pray over him. This is public scandal and it s not only widespread, but encouraged by Rome itself. Meanwhile, retard bloggers like Mark Shea dismiss the criticisms of certain trads as uncharitable. This seems typical of the high payed lay theologian market of EWTN and Catholic Answers. I blame them for a lot of the conservative nonsense among the American Catholic laity who will not get up and speak out. Those who do are silenced and have a small voice. They have no choice but to run off to the SSPX to find serious communion with Catholics who want to fight for their faith.

Blame Opus Dei!

The lay folk in Opus Dei are told to practice blind obedience and not criticize the Pope, Bishops, and Priests even if they are in heresy as only an Ecclesiastical trial can condemn someone of heresy. Those trials have not been held in how many years?

The smoke of Satan has entered the Catholic Church ... did not Pope Paul VI say this?
Quote
If I may say something, even if you are a Catholic who believes in the supreme authority of the Roman Pontiff, do you believe that the respect you we give his office and authority is so absolute that you can not speak harshly of him and the bishops? I think, among American Catholics at least, there is the tendency to just follow authority because it has a hat and robe. I do not know about the pathological tendencies of European Catholics, however. I just remember always being told when speaking out against this that "He's a bishop, blah, blah, blah." I remember saying St. Paul criticized St. Peter once and a friend said, "But you're not St. Paul." Ha! No, but we should strive to be. Typical response when you make a rational point against public evil that these butt-kissers tell you something like that. To just be good. Being a goody-two shoe is not virtuous. It's worse than being rebellious in a way because the rebel has courage. The follower who is a goody two shoe is a coward.

fify

« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 07:24:03 PM by Maria »
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2014, 08:16:47 PM »
Compared to this the stuff O'Malley is involved in pales in comparison.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 08:22:27 PM by Steponas »

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #45 on: January 16, 2014, 09:07:03 PM »
yes...Archbishop Nichols... :( And what do you do with a bishop who offers flowers to a Hindu god? You make him a cardinal of course...  ???

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #46 on: January 16, 2014, 09:22:22 PM »
Compared to this the stuff O'Malley is involved in pales in comparison.

I love how he attended in choir dress. 

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #47 on: January 16, 2014, 10:25:54 PM »
I was in the hospital recently. And not only was I asked by various hospital staff, if I had found Jesus Christ to be my personal savior (this is at a so-call den of atheism according to most of the folks here) but I couldn't avoid being prayed over by nearly all of them. A RC Priest was doing a horrible job of administering the last rites or whatever to the guy next to me and as he left, I said: "Have a nice day Father." And he replied: "Some of the magic and blessing came through the curtain to you too."

You really can't make this up.

But it makes these people feel better about their lack of control in the face of job which pretty much proves you have no control in life ultimately. So who am I to stop them? Their prayers while not helping me in anyway certainly were doing no more harm than the quality of care they were visiting upon me and harm they were causing me through the care they were withholding due to my social class. The prayer likely helps them assuage whatever guilt they still manage to have over that, which isn't good, but God will judge them accordingly for that sin.

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #48 on: January 17, 2014, 06:21:33 PM »
I was in the hospital recently. And not only was I asked by various hospital staff, if I had found Jesus Christ to be my personal savior (this is at a so-call den of atheism according to most of the folks here) but I couldn't avoid being prayed over by nearly all of them. A RC Priest was doing a horrible job of administering the last rites or whatever to the guy next to me and as he left, I said: "Have a nice day Father." And he replied: "Some of the magic and blessing came through the curtain to you too."

You really can't make this up.

But it makes these people feel better about their lack of control in the face of job which pretty much proves you have no control in life ultimately. So who am I to stop them? Their prayers while not helping me in anyway certainly were doing no more harm than the quality of care they were visiting upon me and harm they were causing me through the care they were withholding due to my social class. The prayer likely helps them assuage whatever guilt they still manage to have over that, which isn't good, but God will judge them accordingly for that sin.

He also judges according to our forgiving others, so that we can be forgiven for our sins.
The Lord gathers his sheep, I fear I am a goat. Lord have mercy.

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #49 on: January 17, 2014, 06:26:49 PM »
I was in the hospital recently. And not only was I asked by various hospital staff, if I had found Jesus Christ to be my personal savior (this is at a so-call den of atheism according to most of the folks here) but I couldn't avoid being prayed over by nearly all of them. A RC Priest was doing a horrible job of administering the last rites or whatever to the guy next to me and as he left, I said: "Have a nice day Father." And he replied: "Some of the magic and blessing came through the curtain to you too."

You really can't make this up.

But it makes these people feel better about their lack of control in the face of job which pretty much proves you have no control in life ultimately. So who am I to stop them? Their prayers while not helping me in anyway certainly were doing no more harm than the quality of care they were visiting upon me and harm they were causing me through the care they were withholding due to my social class. The prayer likely helps them assuage whatever guilt they still manage to have over that, which isn't good, but God will judge them accordingly for that sin.

He also judges according to our forgiving others, so that we can be forgiven for our sins.

What does that have to do with blessings? By the way, you are quite wrong. One could say even whatwordsareweallowedtousetodiscussthingswhereareagainstchurchteaching.

God forgives as he wills not according to some structural necessity.

Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #50 on: January 17, 2014, 07:43:56 PM »
I was in the hospital recently. And not only was I asked by various hospital staff, if I had found Jesus Christ to be my personal savior (this is at a so-call den of atheism according to most of the folks here) but I couldn't avoid being prayed over by nearly all of them. A RC Priest was doing a horrible job of administering the last rites or whatever to the guy next to me and as he left, I said: "Have a nice day Father." And he replied: "Some of the magic and blessing came through the curtain to you too."

You really can't make this up.

But it makes these people feel better about their lack of control in the face of job which pretty much proves you have no control in life ultimately. So who am I to stop them? Their prayers while not helping me in anyway certainly were doing no more harm than the quality of care they were visiting upon me and harm they were causing me through the care they were withholding due to my social class. The prayer likely helps them assuage whatever guilt they still manage to have over that, which isn't good, but God will judge them accordingly for that sin.

He also judges according to our forgiving others, so that we can be forgiven for our sins.

What does that have to do with blessings? By the way, you are quite wrong. One could say even whatwordsareweallowedtousetodiscussthingswhereareagainstchurchteaching.

God forgives as he wills not according to some structural necessity.

Clearly Jesus warned that we will not be forgiven, if we refuse to forgive others, it is part of the lords prayer.He also specifically  mentioned that part right after teaching us the Lords Prayer.

Matthew 6:13 ►


The Lord's Prayer
…13And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.' 14"For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15"But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

I simply was saying that you could have forgiven them, instead of saying God will Judge them, he wants us to forgive them, Otherwise, why should we be forgiven?

It does not mean they did nothing wrong, or that God needs us to tell him that.

It is similar to when we get mad we have no problem saying **** them, But most are unwilling to use the word , Love. Me too.

« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 08:09:51 PM by Sinful Hypocrite »
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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #51 on: January 17, 2014, 08:24:29 PM »
Recently someone stole my case containing the laptop I am using right now, and you would not know me at all if they did not feel guilty and return it, The night it happened , I prayed to God and said I forgive them, even thinking that I would never see it again at that point, And I had no other computer, and no way I could afforded one then, the next day someone turned it in at the place where it was taken from.

I feel blessed by the event, maybe similar to those who were there when Jesus said for the one without sin to throw the first stone, Because it could be said that I deserved to get it stolen, for past sins of mine, but by forgiving them immediately, something wonderful happened for me.

I get mad and yell out of anger, and I find it hard to control , but it is better to humble ourselves instead of passing judgement, especially when someone is humbling themselves as the Cardinal.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 08:27:48 PM by Sinful Hypocrite »
The Lord gathers his sheep, I fear I am a goat. Lord have mercy.

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Offline Antonis

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #52 on: January 17, 2014, 08:44:33 PM »
These expressions of "humility" almost always find themselves being directed towards those outside of the Church, wheres the renowned "humility" disappears when dealing with traditionalists WITHIN the Church.
"This is the one from the beginning, who seemed to be new, yet was found to be ancient and always young, being born in the hearts of the saints."
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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #53 on: January 17, 2014, 08:51:29 PM »
These expressions of "humility" almost always find themselves being directed towards those outside of the Church, wheres the renowned "humility" disappears when dealing with traditionalists WITHIN the Church.

True!

A truly humble person will not do things to attract attention.

The Pope is attracting the wrath of the Traditionalists.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 08:52:39 PM by Maria »
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #54 on: January 18, 2014, 03:21:39 PM »
Jesus told us to go out and spread the Gospel, He also warned that we would be persecuted for doing his work, and when they slapped him he asked what he had done to deserve that.

What has this Cardinal done to deserve criticism, but love others as himself?
The Lord gathers his sheep, I fear I am a goat. Lord have mercy.

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #55 on: January 18, 2014, 03:43:48 PM »
Jesus told us to go out and spread the Gospel, He also warned that we would be persecuted for doing his work, and when they slapped him he asked what he had done to deserve that.

What has this Cardinal done to deserve criticism, but love others as himself?

What has he done? I understand he requested a blessing from a protestant......

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #56 on: January 18, 2014, 04:11:53 PM »
Jesus told us to go out and spread the Gospel, He also warned that we would be persecuted for doing his work, and when they slapped him he asked what he had done to deserve that.

What has this Cardinal done to deserve criticism, but love others as himself?

What has he done? I understand he requested a blessing from a protestant......
96. According to the local situation and as occasion may arise, Catholics may, in common celebration with other Christians, commemorate the baptism which unites them, by renewing the engagement to undertake a full Christian life which they have assumed in the promises of their baptism, and by pledging to cooperate with the grace of the Holy Spirit in striving to heal the divisions which exist among Christians.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontif...rectory_en.html
My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #57 on: January 18, 2014, 04:51:13 PM »
Jesus told us to go out and spread the Gospel, He also warned that we would be persecuted for doing his work, and when they slapped him he asked what he had done to deserve that.

What has this Cardinal done to deserve criticism, but love others as himself?

What has he done? I understand he requested a blessing from a protestant......
96. According to the local situation and as occasion may arise, Catholics may, in common celebration with other Christians, commemorate the baptism which unites them, by renewing the engagement to undertake a full Christian life which they have assumed in the promises of their baptism, and by pledging to cooperate with the grace of the Holy Spirit in striving to heal the divisions which exist among Christians.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontif...rectory_en.html


That link is broken.

If this statement is now the policy at the Vatican for the entire Roman Catholic Church, then the Vatican is encouraging Catholics to pray with heretics. That is against the Holy Canons.

And of course, the Holy Canons were rewritten by the future Pope Pius XII when he was with the Curia and assigned to write the 1917 Code of Canon Law. Thus, Pope Pius XII incurred a lot of anathemas because these Holy Canons were not to be changed.

Reference: A college theology course taken at Dominican University in San Rafael, California.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2014, 04:52:54 PM by Maria »
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #59 on: January 18, 2014, 05:34:17 PM »
Cardinal O'Malley's action will make more sense when he begins to submit to blessings by the lay faithful during the liturgy.
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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #60 on: January 18, 2014, 06:04:35 PM »
Fixed link:

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/general-docs/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_19930325_directory_en.html

Quote
DIRECTORY FOR THE APPLICATION OF PRINCIPLES AND NORMS ON ECUMENISM ...

Reasons for this Revision

2. Besides the publication of the Directory, numerous other documents that have a bearing on ecumenism have been published by competent authorities.3

The promulgation of the new Code of Canon Law for the Latin Church (1983) and of the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches (1990) has created in ecumenical matters a disciplinary situation for the faithful of the Catholic Church which is partly new.

In the same way, "The Catechism of the Catholic Church" recently published (1992), includes the ecumenical dimension as part of the basic teaching for all the faithful of the Church. ...

4. The Directory is addressed to the Pastors of the Catholic Church, but it also concerns all the faithful, who are called to pray and work for the unity of Christians, under the direction of their Bishops. ...

It is the task of the local Ordinary and of the Episcopal Conferences and Synods of Eastern Catholic Churches to see to it that the principles and norms contained in the Ecumenical Directory are faithfully applied, and with pastoral concern to take care that all possible deviations from them are avoided. ...

The communion that exists with other Christians on the basis of the sacramental bond of Baptism, and the norms for sharing in prayer and other spiritual activities, including in particular cases sacramental sharing.

I have only posted a few pertinent excerpts from this vaguely worded Directory approved by Pope John Paul II on March 25th, 1993. Instead of preventing abuses, it most likely will encourage more abuses such as the ones where bishops of the Catholic Church have sought the blessing of Buddhists and even kissed the Koran.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2014, 06:06:52 PM by Maria »
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #61 on: January 18, 2014, 06:05:30 PM »
Do you think cardinal o malley will let me reaffirm.his confirmation? I'm as much of a lay person as that lutheran.priest is in the eyes of the Catholic church
« Last Edit: January 18, 2014, 06:06:39 PM by username! »

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #62 on: January 18, 2014, 06:12:02 PM »
Do you think cardinal o malley will let me reaffirm.his confirmation? I'm as much of a lay person as that lutheran.priest is in the eyes of the Catholic church

Heavens, no!

I am certain that Cardinal O'Malley would not want you to be excommunicated for acting like an Orthodox bishop/priest when you are not.

Isn't it strange how the Roman Catholic Church wants to prevent Orthodox Christians from being excommunicated or penanced by receiving communion in a Roman or Eastern Catholic Church? However, Catholic Cardinals will allow a Lutheran minister to anoint or bless themselves. Did not Pope Francis, when he was a Cardinal, allow Jewish rabbis to pray over him when he attended one of their liturgical feasts? I did see a picture of Protestant laymen praying over him at an ecumenical Charismatic function.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2014, 06:14:00 PM by Maria »
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline JoeS2

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #63 on: January 18, 2014, 09:03:16 PM »
Jesus told us to go out and spread the Gospel, He also warned that we would be persecuted for doing his work, and when they slapped him he asked what he had done to deserve that.

What has this Cardinal done to deserve criticism, but love others as himself?

What has he done? I understand he requested a blessing from a protestant......
96. According to the local situation and as occasion may arise, Catholics may, in common celebration with other Christians, commemorate the baptism which unites them, by renewing the engagement to undertake a full Christian life which they have assumed in the promises of their baptism, and by pledging to cooperate with the grace of the Holy Spirit in striving to heal the divisions which exist among Christians.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontif...rectory_en.html


Good enough for me to know that there should be no union.

Offline stanley123

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #64 on: January 18, 2014, 10:36:35 PM »
Jesus told us to go out and spread the Gospel, He also warned that we would be persecuted for doing his work, and when they slapped him he asked what he had done to deserve that.

What has this Cardinal done to deserve criticism, but love others as himself?

What has he done? I understand he requested a blessing from a protestant......
96. According to the local situation and as occasion may arise, Catholics may, in common celebration with other Christians, commemorate the baptism which unites them, by renewing the engagement to undertake a full Christian life which they have assumed in the promises of their baptism, and by pledging to cooperate with the grace of the Holy Spirit in striving to heal the divisions which exist among Christians.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontif...rectory_en.html

This seems to be a huge change in Catholic teaching. Basically, a flip flop because wasn't it a mortal sin before Vatican II,  for a Catholic to participate in a Protestant ritual?

Offline Apotheoun

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #65 on: January 18, 2014, 11:36:58 PM »
This kind of religious indifferentism has been going on in the Catholic Church for decades. Fr. John Whiteford has a brief article on the topic that focuses on Pope John Paul II:

Remembering the good and the bad about Pope John Paul II
« Last Edit: January 18, 2014, 11:37:22 PM by Apotheoun »
"All that the Father has belongs likewise to the Son, except Causality."
St. Gregory Nazianzen

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St. Theodore Studite

Offline Auryn

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #66 on: January 19, 2014, 05:02:28 AM »
Yes, it is a blatant flip flop.  It's called Vatican II.
If there is prayer, the soul lives; without prayer, there is no spiritual life. + St. Theophan the Recluse +

Offline Gunnarr

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #67 on: January 19, 2014, 05:35:43 AM »
Yes, hypocrisy

that is why I did not become Catholic, it is clear recently they are showing too many signs of looking at past beliefs held since the beginning to be wrong, they failed my search for the true church with the simple historical test. The excuse "A seed grows to a tree" makes no sense, and I am tired of hearing it. You can say that for literally any innovation possible, whether right or wrong

The Anglican Church no doubt uses the same exact excuse for female clergy

I am a demonic servant! Beware!

Offline Jetavan

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #68 on: January 19, 2014, 10:29:43 AM »
The Protestant  minister, Rev. Anne Robertson, wrote about the incident in her blog:

Quote
At the root of the word "significance" is the word "sign," and that is what occurred in that moment of anointing.  You don't get to be a Cardinal by being unaware of the significance of your public acts.  In a completely spontaneous moment, Cardinal O'Malley seized the opportunity of signifying the truth of Galatians 3:28, "There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus."  Which is, of course, also the truth of baptism.

In that moment of anointing--as he anointed me and I anointed him--we were not Protestant or Catholic, Scotch or Irish, male or female, cardinal or clergywoman.  We were Christians, babes in Christ, spiritually naked before the Lord who called us both to service.  Nothing could have better signified what everyone in that room had just reaffirmed.  In baptism, we are one.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline PJ26

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #69 on: January 19, 2014, 11:24:28 AM »
 ::)

Offline James2

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #70 on: January 19, 2014, 12:06:50 PM »
The Protestant  minister, Rev. Anne Robertson, wrote about the incident in her blog:

Quote
At the root of the word "significance" is the word "sign," and that is what occurred in that moment of anointing.  You don't get to be a Cardinal by being unaware of the significance of your public acts.  In a completely spontaneous moment, Cardinal O'Malley seized the opportunity of signifying the truth of Galatians 3:28, "There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus."  Which is, of course, also the truth of baptism.

In that moment of anointing--as he anointed me and I anointed him--we were not Protestant or Catholic, Scotch or Irish, male or female, cardinal or clergywoman.  We were Christians, babes in Christ, spiritually naked before the Lord who called us both to service.  Nothing could have better signified what everyone in that room had just reaffirmed.  In baptism, we are one.

So he also anointed her, eh?  He may have done a stealth confirmation.  She could be RC without even knowing it. ;)

Offline Jetavan

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #71 on: January 19, 2014, 12:25:20 PM »
  She could be RC without even knowing it. ;)
According to the CCC 838, all baptized persons indeed are. :o

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter." Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline Apotheoun

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Re: Cardinal O'Malley receiving Protestant blessing
« Reply #72 on: January 19, 2014, 01:14:06 PM »
The Protestant  minister, Rev. Anne Robertson, wrote about the incident in her blog:

Quote
At the root of the word "significance" is the word "sign," and that is what occurred in that moment of anointing.  You don't get to be a Cardinal by being unaware of the significance of your public acts.  In a completely spontaneous moment, Cardinal O'Malley seized the opportunity of signifying the truth of Galatians 3:28, "There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus."  Which is, of course, also the truth of baptism.

In that moment of anointing--as he anointed me and I anointed him--we were not Protestant or Catholic, Scotch or Irish, male or female, cardinal or clergywoman.  We were Christians, babes in Christ, spiritually naked before the Lord who called us both to service.  Nothing could have better signified what everyone in that room had just reaffirmed.  In baptism, we are one.
I think the portion of her blog post that you left out is more interesting:


Quote
The things that came to divide us after our baptism exist still.  There was a reason beyond the accident of the day that we celebrated a reaffirmation of our baptism together and not Holy Communion.  There are uncomfortable realities even in the world of Protestants, even in the world of United Methodists, that resulted in me being the only vested clergywoman of any kind in that service.  And there were other symbols of unity that it was not even possible to signify because those exclusions run too deep still.

It was imperfect.  In a perfect world this reflection would not exist because a United Methodist clergywoman anointing a Roman Catholic Cardinal would be routine and unremarkable.  In a perfect world Cardinal O'Malley and I would preside together at the Lord's Table.  In a perfect world I might preside with a Cardinal Brighid O'Malley.

But grace exists, even in our imperfections--perhaps especially because of our imperfections.  And yesterday afternoon, Jesus took the hands of his servants, Cardinal Sean O'Malley, and Rev. Anne Robertson, and had them anoint each other, thereby signifying to all of us what heaven will be like.

'Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.'

Amen.


Actions do speak louder than words.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2014, 01:19:12 PM by Apotheoun »
"All that the Father has belongs likewise to the Son, except Causality."
St. Gregory Nazianzen

"We should believe that divine grace is present in the icon of Christ and that it communicates sanctification to those who draw near with faith."
St. Theodore Studite