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Author Topic: "I deserve to be happy" "I deserve..."  (Read 1066 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: January 13, 2014, 10:35:00 PM »

Where does that crap come from anyway? Seriously.
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« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2014, 10:37:18 PM »

Where does that crap come from anyway? Seriously.

Selfishness and immaturity.
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« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2014, 10:40:27 PM »

You'll have to be more specific about the context or intended target if you want me to pontificate and make sweeping generalizations.
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« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2014, 10:43:03 PM »

It seems to be a cultural thing - I hear so often, "You deserve to have a good marriage, good life, rest from all this trauma, etc etc. . ."  I always ask them, Why?  What have I done to save humanity?  That's like saying I don't deserve anything of the above - when life just isn't like that.

They then often tell me that I have a self hate complex. . .  Grin
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« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2014, 11:07:45 PM »

There are 3 forumers that when I see they have created a thread, I always enter regardless of the topic.  Shiny, JamesR & Asteriktos.

I must say that this one was a disappointment.  I expected so much more, Shiny, I really did.  Step up your game, man!
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« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2014, 11:10:19 PM »

Where does that crap come from anyway? Seriously.
It comes from the fact that you can't become happy.
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« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2014, 11:22:41 PM »

There are 3 forumers that when I see they have created a thread, I always enter regardless of the topic.  Shiny, JamesR & Asteriktos.

I must say that this one was a disappointment.  I expected so much more, Shiny, I really did.  Step up your game, man!

Read: "I deserve a thread that matches my expectations!" Tongue
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« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2014, 11:29:44 PM »

Everybody -barring clinical cases - feels they're entitled to some measure of happiness. On he other hand that particular phrasing is probably popularized by the self help industry.
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« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2014, 11:31:48 PM »

There are 3 forumers that when I see they have created a thread, I always enter regardless of the topic.  Shiny, JamesR & Asteriktos.

I must say that this one was a disappointment.  I expected so much more, Shiny, I really did.  Step up your game, man!

Read: "I deserve a thread that matches my expectations!" Tongue
Thank you.  Someone understands me at least.  I also deserve sufficient entertainment when I click on a thread in oc.net.  Grin
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« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2014, 11:56:29 PM »

I don't deserve much. But I receive much, which I why I need little. lol
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« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2014, 12:50:14 AM »

You'll have to be more specific about the context or intended target if you want me to pontificate and make sweeping generalizations.

I'm glad someone here has standards regarding his pontifications and sweeping generalizations. Smiley
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« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2014, 12:53:54 AM »

We're supposed to share our surplus with others. This is why I always try and share my excess suffering with others. Some people don't like it, but they're just ungrateful.
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« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2014, 01:00:07 AM »

One time back in my college days, one of my classmates made some comment about how we "deserve this good thing and that good thing". I retorted with, "The Bible says we deserve hell." I'm not sure how truly insightful it was, but it did get some of the kind of laughs that someone will get for saying something witty yet profound. (I was still Protestant at the time.)
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« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2014, 01:11:11 AM »

One time back in my college days, one of my classmates made some comment about how we "deserve this good thing and that good thing". I retorted with, "The Bible says we deserve hell." I'm not sure how truly insightful it was, but it did get some of the kind of laughs that someone will get for saying something witty yet profound. (I was still Protestant at the time.)

Were you trying to be witty as a Protestant?
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« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2014, 01:50:53 AM »

Where does that crap come from anyway? Seriously.

Baby boomer parents who then passed it on to this generation of self-entitled brats.
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« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2014, 01:51:39 AM »

One time back in my college days, one of my classmates made some comment about how we "deserve this good thing and that good thing". I retorted with, "The Bible says we deserve hell." I'm not sure how truly insightful it was, but it did get some of the kind of laughs that someone will get for saying something witty yet profound. (I was still Protestant at the time.)

Were you trying to be witty as a Protestant?
No.
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« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2014, 01:55:50 AM »

It comes from heaven.
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« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2014, 03:24:49 AM »

Where does that crap come from anyway? Seriously.

Sin
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« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2014, 04:51:14 AM »

Where does that crap come from anyway? Seriously.

Baby boomer parents who then passed it on to this generation of self-entitled brats.

And scamandrius wins the thread. Well done, sir!  laugh
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« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2014, 05:07:01 AM »

I'm even more bothered by the "everyone's special" rhetoric. Most people seem to buy into that nonsense.

Where does that crap come from anyway? Seriously.

Baby boomer parents who then passed it on to this generation of self-entitled brats.

That's pretty much it.

Everybody -barring clinical cases - feels they're entitled to some measure of happiness.

Who to sue when I don't get what I'm "entitled to"?
« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 05:18:50 AM by Cyrillic » Logged

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« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2014, 05:38:14 AM »

It's a mentality that leads to abortion, divorce, rape, war, and many other evils. And yet I think Adam and Eve were happy in the Garden, so the pursuit of happiness is not necessarily wrong. I think the problem is in the definition of happiness. We confuse happiness with pleasure, comfort, and security rather than understanding happiness as nearness to God. God wants us to be happy in Him, and He has provided all we need to find that happiness. But too often we seek happiness in ourselves, in others, or in circumstances. And when we do that, we usually just make ourselves and others miserable in the end.

Just my thoughts.


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« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2014, 06:26:49 AM »

Where does that crap come from anyway? Seriously.

Baby boomer parents who then passed it on to this generation of self-entitled brats.

Wow....guys in thier 20's and 30's still blaming thier parents for everything.
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« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2014, 07:20:28 AM »

You'll have to be more specific about the context or intended target if you want me to pontificate and make sweeping generalizations.
Sorry I was on the john when I made the thread.

But the context is in relationships/dating. Just watched a terrible movie last night, and the woman was going on about how she deserved to be happy and deserved to be with this great guy, eventhough she didn't do anything to deserve it.
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« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2014, 07:22:27 AM »

Where does that crap come from anyway? Seriously.

Baby boomer parents who then passed it on to this generation of self-entitled brats.

Wow....guys in thier 20's and 30's still blaming thier parents for everything.

I've seen exactly that many a time in my life.
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« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2014, 09:56:35 AM »

Where does that crap come from anyway? Seriously.

Baby boomer parents who then passed it on to this generation of self-entitled brats.

Wow....guys in thier 20's and 30's still blaming thier parents for everything.
There's always someone to blame except for the person in the mirror.

PP
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« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2014, 10:02:13 AM »

Well, we can hardly blame scamandrius for this.
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« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2014, 10:11:40 AM »

Where does that crap come from anyway? Seriously.

Baby boomer parents who then passed it on to this generation of self-entitled brats.

Wow....guys in thier 20's and 30's still blaming thier parents for everything.
There's always someone to blame except for the person in the mirror.

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« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2014, 10:19:22 AM »

Well, we can hardly blame scamandrius for this.

Why you pickin' on scamandrius?  Grin Grin
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« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2014, 10:20:54 AM »

Where does that crap come from anyway? Seriously.

Baby boomer parents who then passed it on to this generation of self-entitled brats.

Wow....guys in thier 20's and 30's still blaming thier parents for everything.

I've seen exactly that many a time in my life.

Heck, I've people in their 70's and 80's blaming virtually everything "bad" that happens to them on anyone but themselves.  Sad, really.
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« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2014, 10:31:37 AM »

Huh...how oddly fortuitous. I was just lecturing the tiny people on the tv about this subject earlier this morning: "Shut up, quit whining, be grateful for what you've got, get on with it and do something for someone else for a change."

Of course, they didn't respond and the dog left the room.
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« Reply #30 on: January 14, 2014, 10:39:56 AM »

Huh...how oddly fortuitous. I was just lecturing the tiny people on the tv about this subject earlier this morning: "Shut up, quit whining, be grateful for what you've got, get on with it and do something for someone else for a change."

Of course, they didn't respond and the dog left the room.

I've encountered exactly the same reaction (except there was no dog to leave the room, unfortunately) when saying almost those identical words to a certain 87 year old.  Interesting....
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« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2014, 10:41:09 AM »

Curiously, I was reading about the harm that happiness can bring, just before checking the forum...

http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/four_ways_happiness_can_hurt_you
http://yalepeplab.com/pdf/GruberMaussTamir_2011_DarkSideHappiness.pdf

Quote
Four Ways Happiness Can Hurt You

1. Too much happiness can make you less creative—and less safe.
 Imagine someone who has an overpowering drive to attend only to the positive things around them and take risks of enormous proportions. They might tend to overlook or neglect warning signs in their environment, or take bold leaps and risky steps even when outward signs suggest gains are unlikely.

2. Happiness is not suited to every situation.
we’ve found that individuals who experience happiness in inappropriate contexts—such as watching a film of a young child crying or that scene from Trainspotting when Ewan McGregor digs through a disgusting feces-covered toilet—were at greater risk for developing the emotional disorder of mania.

3. Not all types of happiness are good for you.
Work underway in my laboratory, led by graduate student Hillary Devlin, supports the tantalizing notion that self-focused positive emotions like pride may actually hinder our ability to empathize, or take another person’s perspective during difficult emotional times.

4. Pursuing happiness may actually make you unhappy.
Groundbreaking work by Iris Mauss has recently supported the counterintuitive idea that striving for happiness may actually cause more harm than good. In fact, at times, the more people pursue happiness the less they seem able to obtain it.
My colleagues and I are are building on this research, which suggests that the pursuit of happiness is also associated with serious mental health problems, such as depression and bipolar disorder.
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« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2014, 10:43:19 AM »

Huh...how oddly fortuitous. I was just lecturing the tiny people on the tv about this subject earlier this morning: "Shut up, quit whining, be grateful for what you've got, get on with it and do something for someone else for a change."

Of course, they didn't respond and the dog left the room.
Just curious, but under what conditions do we not deserve better? All of us in general.

I dont want to turn this into a self-hate fest.
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« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2014, 10:46:15 AM »

Huh...how oddly fortuitous. I was just lecturing the tiny people on the tv about this subject earlier this morning: "Shut up, quit whining, be grateful for what you've got, get on with it and do something for someone else for a change."

Of course, they didn't respond and the dog left the room.
Just curious, but under what conditions do we not deserve better? All of us in general.

I dont want to turn this into a self-hate fest.

Now, that's kind of an interesting way to word the question...Not sure I have a good answer to that.  But.....you could always ask orthonorm.......... Grin Grin laugh laugh
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« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2014, 10:48:03 AM »

Huh...how oddly fortuitous. I was just lecturing the tiny people on the tv about this subject earlier this morning: "Shut up, quit whining, be grateful for what you've got, get on with it and do something for someone else for a change."

Of course, they didn't respond and the dog left the room.
Just curious, but under what conditions do we not deserve better? All of us in general.

I dont want to turn this into a self-hate fest.

I think it's the "deserve" I mostly have a problem with. Is happiness really the goal or purpose? YMMV of course, but happiness always seemed more of a choice to me.
I'd be interested to hear why you think it's "self-hate" to recognize that we shouldn't be dedicated to receiving happiness?
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« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2014, 10:59:50 AM »

Noone deserves happiness.

Don't we all pray stuff to the point of "I, the unworthy"? Are we serious when we say that or something to that effect?

The very concept of Grace is that we are given something that we do not deserve, that we are unworthy to receive.

But, alas, happiness feels so very good. And there are two approaches to it "Pursue or conquer it", and "choose it". The first is still in the concept we can do something to deserve it, the second acknowledges noone can merit it, but it goes to the opposite extreme and the "catch" is that it makes us believe *we* can choose it. It's ok when someone faces a serious limitation like Nick Vujicic. But when people simply decide to do nothing and that yet they will feel happy nevertheless, it's just self-delusion.

All virtues and good things can turn into "temptations of the right" as Elder Arsenie put it: www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZqCFu2ejoc
Happiness is just another good thing that our culture has perverted. When more happiness leads us away from God, when we feel happy in doing ungodly things, then "more" is "worse".
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« Reply #36 on: January 14, 2014, 11:00:59 AM »

I think it's the "deserve" I mostly have a problem with. Is happiness really the goal or purpose? YMMV of course, but happiness always seemed more of a choice to me.
I'd be interested to hear why you think it's "self-hate" to recognize that we shouldn't be dedicated to receiving happiness?
I don't think happiness should be the goal or puporse, it sure is a fleeting feeling IMO. I would rather be satifised wholly, my intellect, heart, soul, mind, body etc.

But I think we should atleast allow the oppurtunity for people to be happy, but I guess we need to go further back and ask what constitutes happiness. Just to be quick and not nuanced, some it could be not being around people others it can be around many. Or engaging in their favorite activities more often than not. And so on.

I also suggest we need to be careful on what consider to be entitlements. And that's where I think some of the self-hate comes out of. If you view yourself as worthless, insgifnicant, inferior then of course you are going to say nobody is entitled to anything. But more than projecting that onto others, I think we need to take others as icons of Christ more seriously. What we do unto others we do unto Him, which has always struck me as sobering.

I believe that if we can change or alter the quality of life to where it is better for all, then why not? Regardless of whether or not we are entitled to it, it doesn't make much sense to argue against it.
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« Reply #37 on: January 14, 2014, 11:05:58 AM »

I'm even more bothered by the "everyone's special" rhetoric. Most people seem to buy into that nonsense.
Since I've gotten married I've become a little spacial. :p

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« Reply #38 on: January 14, 2014, 11:07:58 AM »

Here's a radical case where happiness, in being anchored on a illusion, will be bad and reinforce self-harm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_integrity_identity_disorder
Body integrity identity disorder (BIID, also referred to as amputee identity disorder[1]) is a psychological disorder wherein sufferers feel they would be happier living as an amputee. It is related to xenomelia, "the oppressive feeling that one or more limbs of one's body do not belong to one's self".[2]

Much of what Christian morality is repudiated for today is because it has always acknowledged that we can feel happy in being evil or self-destructive, and contemporary morality simply cannot grasp that, believing that anything that makes you happy is worth it.
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« Reply #39 on: January 14, 2014, 11:20:35 AM »

I'd say that happiness is a human need and right; a gift of heaven. However, it's true that it can mean different things to different people. Some people think that happiness is self-centered, that it means having people/things for oneself. I believe true happiness is found in experiencing the others and experiencing things with others.
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« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2014, 11:27:41 AM »

The world teaches "follow your heart".

God teaches:
He that trusts in his own heart is a fool: but he that walks wisely, he shall be delivered.
Proverbs 28:26

I believe the danger is that the feeling of happiness is the same whether we are feeling happy for being in the Church or for doing something perverted.

The etymology of "perversion" is based on exactly that per (by means of, as in) verter (turn), to turn something from where it should have turned to. When something good is used to an end that is not good, that is a perversion. So the feeling of happiness which is itself good, can be felt in non-good, perverted ways.

But if one exalts happiness as an end in itself, then whatever makes you feel that way is beyond discernement. If, worse, the fact that something makes you happy *is in itself* the measure of goodness then even perverted acts become praiseworthy.

The great scandal for this age, the stumbling rock, is the teaching that "no, it's not good or right just because it makes you happy and harms noone. Actually, you have to repent *even* from feeling happy about some things that you should not love or feel good about, if you want salvation."
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« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2014, 11:33:52 AM »

The world teaches "follow your heart".

God teaches:
He that trusts in his own heart is a fool: but he that walks wisely, he shall be delivered.
Proverbs 28:26

I believe the danger is that the feeling of happiness is the same whether we are feeling happy for being in the Church or for doing something perverted.

The etymology of "perversion" is based on exactly that per (by means of, as in) verter (turn), to turn something from where it should have turned to. When something good is used to an end that is not good, that is a perversion. So the feeling of happiness which is itself good, can be felt in non-good, perverted ways.

But if one exalts happiness as an end in itself, then whatever makes you feel that way is beyond discernement. If, worse, the fact that something makes you happy *is in itself* the measure of goodness then even perverted acts become praiseworthy.

The great scandal for this age, the stumbling rock, is the teaching that "no, it's not good or right just because it makes you happy and harms noone. Actually, you have to repent *even* from feeling happy about some things that you should not love or feel good about, if you want salvation."


I totally agree. If you seek happiness in itself, then you are missing the point of it. Happiness is not something that can be achieved, but a state of being when things are the way they should (which is a different discussion).
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« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2014, 12:02:56 PM »

Happiness includes, even in its etymology, an element of luck. It just 'happens'. It is by definition random and transient. I wouldn't rely on it.

Contentment, on the other hand, is something that everyone can work on and achieve, regardless of their actual circumstances.
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« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2014, 02:48:43 PM »

Where does that crap come from anyway? Seriously.

In the opening paragraphs of "We" they said that it was now required for everyone to be happy,
and if anyone wasn't perfectly happy, then they would "force" them to be happy.

The best form of happiness is when you are forced to be happy, at the point of a gun,
with the threat of imprisonment, forced drugging, electroshock therapy, and insulin coma;
if you ever fail to adequately demonstrate upon examination that you are
absolutely 100% perfectly happy with everything going on in your life.

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« Reply #44 on: January 15, 2014, 04:07:20 PM »

You'll have to be more specific about the context or intended target if you want me to pontificate and make sweeping generalizations.
Sorry I was on the john when I made the thread.
Oy, more crap to come from you as you're sitting on the crapper. laugh
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« Reply #45 on: January 15, 2014, 05:15:06 PM »

You'll have to be more specific about the context or intended target if you want me to pontificate and make sweeping generalizations.
Sorry I was on the john when I made the thread.
Oy, more crap to come from you as you're sitting on the crapper. laugh
Ha!  And he criticizes me for my posting habits.....LOLOLOL

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« Reply #46 on: January 15, 2014, 05:55:36 PM »

Where does that crap come from anyway? Seriously.

 I heard an Englishman on a radio program stating that Americans are eternal optimists and I think he's probably on to something.  I think it's in our cultural DNA beginning with the Declaration of Independence; "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness."  on into the Manifest Destiniy, the Industrial Revolution and the "Shining City on a Hill" defining American exceptionalism.  I think we run into trouble by listening to the pharmaceutical companies package "happiness" in pill form.
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« Reply #47 on: March 23, 2014, 02:13:46 PM »

Huh...how oddly fortuitous. I was just lecturing the tiny people on the tv about this subject earlier this morning: "Shut up, quit whining, be grateful for what you've got, get on with it and do something for someone else for a change."

Of course, they didn't respond and the dog left the room.

Even the dog disagrees  Smiley
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« Reply #48 on: March 23, 2014, 02:17:54 PM »

Happiness includes, even in its etymology, an element of luck. It just 'happens'. It is by definition random and transient. I wouldn't rely on it.

I've once heard someone say that you're happy the moment you choose to be. I thought there was some merit in that statement.
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« Reply #49 on: March 23, 2014, 02:18:30 PM »

Noone deserves happiness.

Don't we all pray stuff to the point of "I, the unworthy"? Are we serious when we say that or something to that effect?

The very concept of Grace is that we are given something that we do not deserve, that we are unworthy to receive.

But, alas, happiness feels so very good. And there are two approaches to it "Pursue or conquer it", and "choose it". The first is still in the concept we can do something to deserve it, the second acknowledges noone can merit it, but it goes to the opposite extreme and the "catch" is that it makes us believe *we* can choose it. It's ok when someone faces a serious limitation like Nick Vujicic. But when people simply decide to do nothing and that yet they will feel happy nevertheless, it's just self-delusion.

All virtues and good things can turn into "temptations of the right" as Elder Arsenie put it: www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZqCFu2ejoc
Happiness is just another good thing that our culture has perverted. When more happiness leads us away from God, when we feel happy in doing ungodly things, then "more" is "worse".

What do you mean by "choosing your happiness" ?
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« Reply #50 on: March 23, 2014, 02:19:37 PM »

Happiness includes, even in its etymology, an element of luck. It just 'happens'. It is by definition random and transient. I wouldn't rely on it.

I've once heard someone say that you're happy the moment you choose to be. I thought there was some merit in that statement.

What do you mean? How is happiness a choice? If everything in your life is upside down how can you be happy?   Roll Eyes
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« Reply #51 on: March 23, 2014, 02:30:08 PM »

Happiness includes, even in its etymology, an element of luck. It just 'happens'. It is by definition random and transient. I wouldn't rely on it.

Contentment, on the other hand, is something that everyone can work on and achieve, regardless of their actual circumstances.

I think happiness trumps contentment any time.
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« Reply #52 on: March 23, 2014, 02:41:54 PM »

Happiness includes, even in its etymology, an element of luck. It just 'happens'. It is by definition random and transient. I wouldn't rely on it.

I've once heard someone say that you're happy the moment you choose to be. I thought there was some merit in that statement.

What do you mean? How is happiness a choice? If everything in your life is upside down how can you be happy?   Roll Eyes

Haven't you ever wondered why happiness and the greatest joy can be found among the most hopeless of people and the greatest sadness and depression among those who are universally considered to be protégées of fortune and who appear to possess everything one could desire?

Happiness, I think, is not the absence of hardships or setback, but the way you handle them. Were the absence of hardships the requirement for happiness nobody alive would be happy, since hardships are unavoidable and indeed a fact of life. To a great extent happiness and equanimity are synonyms.

At least, that's what I believe.
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« Reply #53 on: March 23, 2014, 02:54:21 PM »

"hopeless" people are usually less intelligent than "protégées of fortune" . I would say the answer to that is just ignorance. One who is more ignorant has inferior expectations than one who is less ignorant. I also think it is a matter of IQ.
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« Reply #54 on: March 23, 2014, 03:03:56 PM »

One who is more ignorant has inferior expectations than one who is less ignorant.

The amount of happiness and the amount of money on your bank account don't correlate.
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« Reply #55 on: March 23, 2014, 03:06:29 PM »

One who is more ignorant has inferior expectations than one who is less ignorant.

The amount of happiness and the amount of money on your bank account don't correlate.

Because happiness is not objective.
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