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Author Topic: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?  (Read 2274 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: January 13, 2014, 03:51:38 PM »

I was reading a few posts today about those who have been married only once, how difficult the marriage is and they dispense advice. Problem is, you've only had one marriage, how is your advice going to apply to everyone elses?

I understand someone who has been married 3-5 times has no idea what marriage is, fine, but just one?

I hear about how people are miserable and suffer from being married. But what if I find a partner where I am not in pain? Am I doing the whole marriage thing wrong?

I'd rather have a marriage that contains joy, not one that creates a heavier cross to carry.

Maybe marriage just isn't for me. I'd rather have that option to leave the relationship if I wanted to, cause I will not divorce unless there is abuse/malice or infedility.

But anyway, I just have a hard time accepting the ancedotal marriage tips/advice from those only married once and it doesn't matter how long. Not everyones marriage is the same, I don't think there are universals either.
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« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2014, 03:59:55 PM »

In short, you want the answer to be very very qualitative through a method quantity, it does not work that way :S One marriage is enough to see what went right and wrong Tongue
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« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2014, 04:04:56 PM »

How about don't take advice from strangers on the internet?  That works, too.
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« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2014, 04:07:53 PM »

Many of us only married once have had previous relationships that weren't marriage material.  So that counts towards insight concerning discernment towards marriage.  I learned a lot from some bad and ill-advised relationships, such as what a great feeling it was to throw my wedding gown into a dumpster to burn all bridges to a controlling man I was about to marry. If that wedding took place I'd be on my 2nd marriage instead of the first.  (Looking back I should have taken it to Goodwill or Salvation Army but that's water under the bridge )
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« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2014, 04:08:24 PM »

This brings up an interesting point.  If you have two people who just work well together, are they necessarily doing things better than someone who just married a turd?  I guess they did better with the whole decision making thing than the turd-marrier, but there is also a matter of availability - sometimes you just gotta roll with what's in stock at the time.  

It seems that any marriage advice needs the caveat "your results might vary".  Any "universals" might just be a "works more often than not with relatively sane people".  I have seen happy marriages/relationships and miserable ones and often they had the same factors, it's just that one party got through them (or liked the factors, even) while others were torn apart by them.

In short, a relationship/marriage is two people chock full of neuroses and personality defects trying to coexist.  As my brother's friend told him, marry the crazy you can deal with.  (He's been married about 30 years...and somewhere between miserable and happy.)
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« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2014, 04:11:22 PM »

I was only married once, but my mom has been married five times and my father four times... so I have plenty of experience evaluating marital relationships. Tongue
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« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2014, 04:19:26 PM »

The thing is, marriage is not really rocket science.  Most people who have successful marriages pretty much agree on what makes it succeed. It is just plain hard work.  There are times when it is enjoyable and there are times when it isn't. Regardless of who you marry, you are going to have to figure out how to make sacrifices.

I don't need to try out a million shovels before figuring out how to dig a hole.  Sure you may have preferences in the shovel you pick, but a guy who has dug a 50 ft hole with one shovel is going to be better at it than a guy who owned 50 shovels but never started digging.
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« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2014, 04:26:33 PM »

The thing is, marriage is not really rocket science.  Most people who have successful marriages pretty much agree on what makes it succeed. It is just plain hard work.  There are times when it is enjoyable and there are times when it isn't. Regardless of who you marry, you are going to have to figure out how to make sacrifices.

I don't need to try out a million shovels before figuring out how to dig a hole.  Sure you may have preferences in the shovel you pick, but a guy who has dug a 50 ft hole with one shovel is going to be better at it than a guy who owned 50 shovels but never started digging.

Are you trying to imply that marriage is like digging yourself into a hole? Grin Grin
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« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2014, 04:30:00 PM »

The thing is, marriage is not really rocket science.  Most people who have successful marriages pretty much agree on what makes it succeed. It is just plain hard work.  There are times when it is enjoyable and there are times when it isn't. Regardless of who you marry, you are going to have to figure out how to make sacrifices.

I don't need to try out a million shovels before figuring out how to dig a hole.  Sure you may have preferences in the shovel you pick, but a guy who has dug a 50 ft hole with one shovel is going to be better at it than a guy who owned 50 shovels but never started digging.

Are you trying to imply that marriage is like digging yourself into a hole? Grin Grin
Take from it what you will.  Cheesy
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« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2014, 04:36:13 PM »

How about don't take advice from strangers on the internet?  That works, too.

Or...just ask orthonorm... laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh
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« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2014, 04:43:39 PM »

How about don't take advice from strangers on the internet?  That works, too.

Or...just ask orthonorm... laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh
"I ain't never been no married, and I can tell you that you're all wrong. Varsity interwebnetz and stuffs"

At least, that is what I think he would say.

I've only been married about 5 months and it is definitely hard work. Harder than I could have expected, but it's worth it. Humility, forgiveness and prayer are the tools to use. I don't think being married multiple times would be an asset in learning that. Breathing and being sober could tell you marriage takes work.

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« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2014, 04:46:21 PM »

How about don't take advice from strangers on the internet?  That works, too.

Or...just ask orthonorm... laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh
"I ain't never been no married, and I can tell you that you're all wrong. Varsity interwebnetz and stuffs"

At least, that is what I think he would say.

I've only been married about 5 months and it is definitely hard work. Harder than I could have expected, but it's worth it. Humility, forgiveness and prayer are the tools to use. I don't think being married multiple times would be an asset in learning that. Breathing and being sober could tell you marriage takes work.

In Christ,
Andrew
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« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2014, 04:54:12 PM »


"I ain't never been no married, and I can tell you that you're all wrong. Varsity interwebnetz and stuffs"

At least, that is what I think he would say.

I've only been married about 5 months and it is definitely hard work. Harder than I could have expected, but it's worth it. Humility, forgiveness and prayer are the tools to use. I don't think being married multiple times would be an asset in learning that. Breathing and being sober could tell you marriage takes work.

In Christ,
Andrew

So true!  The first year is rough.  Mainly because your are trying to mesh two points of view and approaches you've learned from your Family of Origin.  And there's no timeout because you are, well, married!  It's a bit of a shock.  Patience, perseverance and just constant remembering what you like about the other person.   
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« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2014, 04:59:30 PM »

I personally did not find the first year rough. I loved the first couple years of marriage. We both worked and brought in lots of money.  We had low expenses, so we did lots of traveling, having fun and blowing money on silly things.  I think it got tougher once we had kids (they are age 5 &7) and then it got pretty rocky when I decided to convert to Orthodoxy about 3 yrs ago.  Things have regained their equalibrium and I feel like things are pretty good now.  We are 11 years in at this point.
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« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2014, 05:24:30 PM »

The thing is, marriage is not really rocket science.  Most people who have successful marriages pretty much agree on what makes it succeed. It is just plain hard work.  There are times when it is enjoyable and there are times when it isn't. Regardless of who you marry, you are going to have to figure out how to make sacrifices.

I don't need to try out a million shovels before figuring out how to dig a hole.  Sure you may have preferences in the shovel you pick, but a guy who has dug a 50 ft hole with one shovel is going to be better at it than a guy who owned 50 shovels but never started digging.

Are you trying to imply that marriage is like digging yourself into a hole? Grin Grin
Take from it what you will.  Cheesy

But if your wife asks about this post, your account has been hacked.
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« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2014, 05:32:53 PM »

The thing is, marriage is not really rocket science.  Most people who have successful marriages pretty much agree on what makes it succeed. It is just plain hard work.  There are times when it is enjoyable and there are times when it isn't. Regardless of who you marry, you are going to have to figure out how to make sacrifices.

I don't need to try out a million shovels before figuring out how to dig a hole.  Sure you may have preferences in the shovel you pick, but a guy who has dug a 50 ft hole with one shovel is going to be better at it than a guy who owned 50 shovels but never started digging.

Are you trying to imply that marriage is like digging yourself into a hole? Grin Grin
Take from it what you will.  Cheesy

But if your wife asks about this post, your account has been hacked.
Yes. thank you.  I am shocked, SHOCKED at what someone has written using my account!  Shocked Cool
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« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2014, 11:04:39 PM »

I think there's a learning curve in the first year or so when you're learning how to actually like, live together. But I think it helps that you're pretty blissed out still so maybe you're just more amenable to over-looking a lot.  Cheesy I was just thinking earlier of how what I find to be romantic has changed after 5 years of marriage and life. Not in a bad way, just different.
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« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2014, 12:30:43 AM »

Marriage is awesome. I am very, very, happily married. The relationship certainly evolves and changes over time though.

When we were first married, a surprise bouquet of flowers and a love note was the ultimate romantic gesture to me.

17 years and six children later; getting up with the kids and letting me sleep in, while doing the dishes, and folding the laundry, is the ultimate romantic gesture to me. Wink
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« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2014, 12:40:08 AM »

I was reading a few posts today about those who have been married only once, how difficult the marriage is and they dispense advice.
I've never found it very difficult, but I don't hand out advice, either.
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« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2014, 12:49:16 AM »

Marriage is awesome. I am very, very, happily married. The relationship certainly evolves and changes over time though.

When we were first married, a surprise bouquet of flowers and a love note was the ultimate romantic gesture to me.

17 years and six children later; getting up with the kids and letting me sleep in, while doing the dishes, and folding the laundry, is the ultimate romantic gesture to me. Wink


That's pretty much exactly what I was thinking of as well. Cheesy At the beginning of our relationship, I perceived romance as the explicit, showy gestures like (as you said) bringing me flowers and the like. Now, I'm like, "He works really hard to support our family and never complains about it." Or, "He worked all day and still came home and took over the kids' chaos so I could shower." Or, "He grabbed bread before he left for work without me asking because he knew we were out." It's not that I didn't appreciate that he worked before, and it's not that I don't like getting surprise flowers now... but it's different. I just really appreciate and notice all the quiet ways that he shows us that he loves us by faithfully doing average, boring, everyday stuff so that we can have a nice life. He does it without fanfare day in and day out and never lords it over me or expects a parade in his honor. It's those kind of things that make me think I'm so lucky, I guess. I'll stop rambling, but obviously, I am a fan of my husband.  Tongue Kiss
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« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2014, 01:21:26 AM »

I find that most advice, in that it comes from another person's unique experience, rarely translates to me and my unique experience. So, in this case, someone married only once is no more likely to be right or wrong in his advice for me than someone married eight times.
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« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2014, 01:27:46 AM »

There's entirely too much happiness in this thread.  Where's all the spite, ennui, and jaded bitterness of those who know the truth?   
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« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2014, 01:34:59 AM »

There's entirely too much happiness in this thread.  Where's all the spite, ennui, and jaded bitterness of those who know the truth?   

All the spiteful, embittered, jaded, and bored married people are too busy working on their online dating profiles to worry about an Orthodox forum. So that just leaves spiteful, embittered, jaded, and bored SINGLE people to post here, along with the happily married.
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« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2014, 01:39:08 AM »

There's entirely too much happiness in this thread.  Where's all the spite, ennui, and jaded bitterness of those who know the truth?   

All the spiteful, embittered, jaded, and bored married people are too busy working on their online dating profiles to worry about an Orthodox forum. So that just leaves spiteful, embittered, jaded, and bored SINGLE people to post here, along with the happily married.

Who will respond with a heartfelt "Yo mama"? 
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« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2014, 04:53:45 AM »

There's entirely too much happiness in this thread.  Where's all the spite, ennui, and jaded bitterness of those who know the truth?   

Ssssshhhhh! Don't encourage them!!  Shocked laugh laugh
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« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2014, 08:13:00 AM »

There's entirely too much happiness in this thread.  Where's all the spite, ennui, and jaded bitterness of those who know the truth?   

All the spiteful, embittered, jaded, and bored married people are too busy working on their online dating profiles to worry about an Orthodox forum. So that just leaves spiteful, embittered, jaded, and bored SINGLE people to post here, along with the happily married.

Who will respond with a heartfelt "Yo mama"? 
Yo Yo Ma will respond.
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« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2014, 10:05:13 AM »

There's entirely too much happiness in this thread.  Where's all the spite, ennui, and jaded bitterness of those who know the truth?   

All the spiteful, embittered, jaded, and bored married people are too busy working on their online dating profiles to worry about an Orthodox forum. So that just leaves spiteful, embittered, jaded, and bored SINGLE people to post here, along with the happily married.

Who will respond with a heartfelt "Yo mama"? 
Yo Yo Ma will respond.


And quite beautifully, too!! 
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« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2014, 10:34:21 AM »

I hear about how people are miserable and suffer from being married. But what if I find a partner where I am not in pain?

The crazy and difficult thing about marriage is, IMHO of course, that these states of being/feeling coexist in the same marriage.
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« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2014, 10:41:46 AM »

Marriage is awesome. I am very, very, happily married. The relationship certainly evolves and changes over time though.

When we were first married, a surprise bouquet of flowers and a love note was the ultimate romantic gesture to me.

17 years and six children later; getting up with the kids and letting me sleep in, while doing the dishes, and folding the laundry, is the ultimate romantic gesture to me. Wink


That's pretty much exactly what I was thinking of as well. Cheesy At the beginning of our relationship, I perceived romance as the explicit, showy gestures like (as you said) bringing me flowers and the like. Now, I'm like, "He works really hard to support our family and never complains about it." Or, "He worked all day and still came home and took over the kids' chaos so I could shower." Or, "He grabbed bread before he left for work without me asking because he knew we were out." It's not that I didn't appreciate that he worked before, and it's not that I don't like getting surprise flowers now... but it's different. I just really appreciate and notice all the quiet ways that he shows us that he loves us by faithfully doing average, boring, everyday stuff so that we can have a nice life. He does it without fanfare day in and day out and never lords it over me or expects a parade in his honor. It's those kind of things that make me think I'm so lucky, I guess. I'll stop rambling, but obviously, I am a fan of my husband.  Tongue Kiss

Absolutely!
I'd rather have a man who disposes of a (very) dead rat behind the washer, and cleans everything up without even telling me about it. Even though he has practically a phobia about rats, like my husband did.
What a romantic guy!
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« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2014, 11:08:00 AM »

I don't know if I necessarily agree. I love to buy the girls in my life things, flowers, chocolates, purses, makeup, perfume, etc. Even just out of spotaneity.

That's not to say I'm buying stuff everyday, but a few times women really do appreciate it, they feel loved.

Women could use a lot more love, and I've noticed that for the majority of marriages much of the water runs dry.

That's great your husband can take out the trash or cleanup. But he should do more. To me, there needs to be a level of initimacy between both. I think this is also crucial that your children are aware of this to, otherwise they will have distorted views on what a marriage is.
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« Reply #30 on: January 14, 2014, 11:08:26 AM »

Why does Orthodoxy have such a fatalistic view of marriage? "You have DIE. IT's MARTYRDOM!!!!" "It's going to be sooo hard all the time and your kids will ascetically suck the life out of you and you will attain holy dispassion."

Many present it this way, but what about the romance and love? I love my wife and kids and they make me happy. I know that not everyone presents it this way, but sometimes it gets old. It's OK to be happy in your marriage.
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« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2014, 11:11:19 AM »

Why does Orthodoxy have such a fatalistic view of marriage? "You have DIE. IT's MARTYRDOM!!!!" "It's going to be sooo hard all the time and your kids will ascetically suck the life out of you and you will attain holy dispassion."

Many present it this way, but what about the romance and love? I love my wife and kids and they make me happy. I know that not everyone presents it this way, but sometimes it gets old. It's OK to be happy in your marriage.
As much as I agree with all of this, and I really do, I also like that the Church takes marriage as seriously as it does.

Granted the above is pretty scary stuff, and both people surely need to know what they are getting themselves into, but it should be presented in a different way. This whole "your life is over" upon being married is a real turn off.

But married couples I have seen at the parishes you can tell have a lot of joy. However I know of a priest's wife that wasn't so happy, but that's a different matter...
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« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2014, 11:52:44 AM »

Why does Orthodoxy have such a fatalistic view of marriage? "You have DIE. IT's MARTYRDOM!!!!" "It's going to be sooo hard all the time and your kids will ascetically suck the life out of you and you will attain holy dispassion."

Many present it this way, but what about the romance and love? I love my wife and kids and they make me happy. I know that not everyone presents it this way, but sometimes it gets old. It's OK to be happy in your marriage.
As much as I agree with all of this, and I really do, I also like that the Church takes marriage as seriously as it does.

Granted the above is pretty scary stuff, and both people surely need to know what they are getting themselves into, but it should be presented in a different way. This whole "your life is over" upon being married is a real turn off.

But married couples I have seen at the parishes you can tell have a lot of joy. However I know of a priest's wife that wasn't so happy, but that's a different matter...

Well, in a sense, when you get married YOUR life IS over--because it's no longer just about YOU and what you want and need and think is best, etc.  While of course you still maintain your individuality, you are now part of we/us and what you do and do not do must take that into consideration.  That is what, amongst other things, can be so very difficult and painful at times--surrendering YOUR will and wants, and fulfilling the will and wants and needs of your spouse and children should you be blessed with them.  (I'm sure someone can put that all into somewhat more elegant terms, or more comprehensively  Smiley .)

EDIT:  In your other thread here, Shiny, Fabio Leite has "coincidentally" posted this: "The world teaches "follow your heart".

God teaches:
He that trusts in his own heart is a fool: but he that walks wisely, he shall be delivered."

Proverbs 28:26
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,56000.msg1061969.html#msg1061969

I just thought that that was apropos  Wink.
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« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2014, 11:59:37 AM »


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« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2014, 12:08:48 PM »

I don't know if I necessarily agree. I love to buy the girls in my life things, flowers, chocolates, purses, makeup, perfume, etc. Even just out of spotaneity.

That's not to say I'm buying stuff everyday, but a few times women really do appreciate it, they feel loved.

Women could use a lot more love, and I've noticed that for the majority of marriages much of the water runs dry.

That's great your husband can take out the trash or cleanup. But he should do more. To me, there needs to be a level of initimacy between both. I think this is also crucial that your children are aware of this to, otherwise they will have distorted views on what a marriage is.

I feel way more loved and cherished by the ordinary, every-day stuff my husband takes care of than I do by the extras he bestows on me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-flowers or anti-candlelight dinners and anti-perfume, but if that's the metric you're* using to determine love, you're going to spend a lot of your life dissatisfied. Going to work to provide for us, taking the trash out so I don't have to, picking up milk on the way home... these things speak way louder to me because it's not exciting, totally average, and sacrificial. You get someone flowers because you generally want to do that, and you want their thrilled reaction because it makes you feel good. It's out of the ordinary. Again, it's nice to be the recipient of that kind of fun gesture. That is not what inspires deep wells of love in my heart though. I see him doing things he probably would rather not be doing for the ultimate good of our family and I think, "What a good man." I agree that kids should see spouses doing nice things for each other, but if my kids grow up thinking that this stereotypical romance = love, then I think that is a distorted view on what a marriage is. I would much rather have them grow up realizing that those things are awesome and fun and special occasions, but that love is better shown through actions, many of which seem mundane and unremarkable.

*All you's general
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« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2014, 12:13:24 PM »

It is the same way in my house.  My wife becomes irrisistably attracted to me when I clean the bathroom.  laugh

She could care less about flowers.  Our cats eat them and then vomits when flowers are in the house, so that kind of reduces the romance aspect.
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« Reply #36 on: January 14, 2014, 12:15:14 PM »

and anti-perfume

A man that uses perfume is no man.
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« Reply #37 on: January 14, 2014, 12:15:49 PM »

I don't know if I necessarily agree. I love to buy the girls in my life things, flowers, chocolates, purses, makeup, perfume, etc. Even just out of spotaneity.

That's not to say I'm buying stuff everyday, but a few times women really do appreciate it, they feel loved.

Women could use a lot more love, and I've noticed that for the majority of marriages much of the water runs dry.

That's great your husband can take out the trash or cleanup. But he should do more. To me, there needs to be a level of initimacy between both. I think this is also crucial that your children are aware of this to, otherwise they will have distorted views on what a marriage is.

I feel way more loved and cherished by the ordinary, every-day stuff my husband takes care of than I do by the extras he bestows on me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-flowers or anti-candlelight dinners and anti-perfume, but if that's the metric you're* using to determine love, you're going to spend a lot of your life dissatisfied. Going to work to provide for us, taking the trash out so I don't have to, picking up milk on the way home... these things speak way louder to me because it's not exciting, totally average, and sacrificial. You get someone flowers because you generally want to do that, and you want their thrilled reaction because it makes you feel good. It's out of the ordinary. Again, it's nice to be the recipient of that kind of fun gesture. That is not what inspires deep wells of love in my heart though. I see him doing things he probably would rather not be doing for the ultimate good of our family and I think, "What a good man." I agree that kids should see spouses doing nice things for each other, but if my kids grow up thinking that this stereotypical romance = love, then I think that is a distorted view on what a marriage is. I would much rather have them grow up realizing that those things are awesome and fun and special occasions, but that love is better shown through actions, many of which seem mundane and unremarkable.

*All you's general

Amen! Preach it, sister!

(Anyway, I'm probably atypical since I'd rather have books or cool electronics than flowers, candy and perfume.)
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« Reply #38 on: January 14, 2014, 12:16:38 PM »

Why does Orthodoxy have such a fatalistic view of marriage? "You have DIE. IT's MARTYRDOM!!!!" "It's going to be sooo hard all the time and your kids will ascetically suck the life out of you and you will attain holy dispassion."

Many present it this way, but what about the romance and love? I love my wife and kids and they make me happy. I know that not everyone presents it this way, but sometimes it gets old. It's OK to be happy in your marriage.
I think it is ascetical, but the joy of marriage is indescribable, to me at least. If I had to choose marriage to my wife or something else, I'd pick my wife. I don't know about children yet. We've got one on the way and I'm eager to hold the baby and be a dad. I'm sure it will be tough, but I think it will be worthwhile as you stated.

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« Reply #39 on: January 14, 2014, 12:17:21 PM »

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« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2014, 12:17:34 PM »

Nothing wrong in spending money on your lifemate. It had better be spent on the right things, though, and that's where knowing what makes the other one tick comes in handy. My husband knows that, for the price of a bottle of Chanel No.5, he can get a maid to come in and do my housework so I can have a carefree day in town, and have leftover pocket money to spend there. The choice wouldn't be hard at all. Wink
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« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2014, 12:19:07 PM »

It is the same way in my house.  My wife becomes irrisistably attracted to me when I clean the bathroom.  laugh

She could care less about flowers.  Our cats eat them and then vomits when flowers are in the house, so that kind of reduces the romance aspect.
When you buy flowers, and the cat eats them, and then vomits, does she become irresistibly attracted to you when you put on your VomitMan cape and tights and clean it up?
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« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2014, 12:21:37 PM »

It is the same way in my house.  My wife becomes irrisistably attracted to me when I clean the bathroom.  laugh

She could care less about flowers.  Our cats eat them and then vomits when flowers are in the house, so that kind of reduces the romance aspect.
When you buy flowers, and the cat eats them, and then vomits, does she become irresistibly attracted to you when you put on your VomitMan cape and tights and clean it up?
No.  That is usually when she is yelling about why I was so stupid as to bring flowers back in the house when I know full well that the cat will eat them.  Grin
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« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2014, 12:22:05 PM »

It is the same way in my house.  My wife becomes irrisistably attracted to me when I clean the bathroom.  laugh

She could care less about flowers.  Our cats eat them and then vomits when flowers are in the house, so that kind of reduces the romance aspect.
When you buy flowers, and the cat eats them, and then vomits, does she become irresistibly attracted to you when you put on your VomitMan cape and tights and clean it up?

I'm sure of it, but only if he wear underwear on the outside of his tights.
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« Reply #44 on: January 14, 2014, 12:22:52 PM »

It is the same way in my house.  My wife becomes irrisistably attracted to me when I clean the bathroom.  laugh

She could care less about flowers.  Our cats eat them and then vomits when flowers are in the house, so that kind of reduces the romance aspect.
When you buy flowers, and the cat eats them, and then vomits, does she become irresistibly attracted to you when you put on your VomitMan cape and tights and clean it up?

Brilliant. A cycle of win for you, Trisagion.
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« Reply #45 on: January 14, 2014, 12:24:40 PM »

Every time I read this topic's title I wonder if this is a generational thing. Does this mean some do not trust those of the generations before them who were not as likely to be divorced? Parents, grandparents?

Or does this mean Shiny is on the lookout for a nice, well experienced girl with a few kids?
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« Reply #46 on: January 14, 2014, 12:27:51 PM »

Amen! Preach it, sister!

(Anyway, I'm probably atypical since I'd rather have books or cool electronics than flowers, candy and perfume.)

I also like cool electronics.  Grin But I confess that I do love perfume and makeup. Flowers aren't really my thing after spending many moons as a florist. Just overexposure, I think. Fun fact: I sold my husband flowers (before I "met" him) that he was buying for another girl.
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« Reply #47 on: January 14, 2014, 12:32:05 PM »

I don't know if I necessarily agree. I love to buy the girls in my life things, flowers, chocolates, purses, makeup, perfume, etc. Even just out of spotaneity.

That's not to say I'm buying stuff everyday, but a few times women really do appreciate it, they feel loved.

Women could use a lot more love, and I've noticed that for the majority of marriages much of the water runs dry.

That's great your husband can take out the trash or cleanup. But he should do more. To me, there needs to be a level of initimacy between both. I think this is also crucial that your children are aware of this to, otherwise they will have distorted views on what a marriage is.

I feel way more loved and cherished by the ordinary, every-day stuff my husband takes care of than I do by the extras he bestows on me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-flowers or anti-candlelight dinners and anti-perfume, but if that's the metric you're* using to determine love, you're going to spend a lot of your life dissatisfied. Going to work to provide for us, taking the trash out so I don't have to, picking up milk on the way home... these things speak way louder to me because it's not exciting, totally average, and sacrificial. You get someone flowers because you generally want to do that, and you want their thrilled reaction because it makes you feel good. It's out of the ordinary. Again, it's nice to be the recipient of that kind of fun gesture. That is not what inspires deep wells of love in my heart though. I see him doing things he probably would rather not be doing for the ultimate good of our family and I think, "What a good man." I agree that kids should see spouses doing nice things for each other, but if my kids grow up thinking that this stereotypical romance = love, then I think that is a distorted view on what a marriage is. I would much rather have them grow up realizing that those things are awesome and fun and special occasions, but that love is better shown through actions, many of which seem mundane and unremarkable.

*All you's general
Oh because it sure sounded like you were rationalizing the mundanities within marriage.

I'm not saying I believe in that whole spice up your marriage garbage nor when it comes to sex. I want to strangle the rekindle the spark types.

But that doesn't mean all the romance ends in marriage.

If you're idea of romance from a man is him collecting the trash to take out, then I feel very sorry for you.

I'd rather take the thros of a passionate intitimate relationship with my significant other than her getting glazed eyes because I took some Ajax cleaner to the sink.
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« Reply #48 on: January 14, 2014, 12:36:50 PM »

I don't know if I necessarily agree. I love to buy the girls in my life things, flowers, chocolates, purses, makeup, perfume, etc. Even just out of spotaneity.

That's not to say I'm buying stuff everyday, but a few times women really do appreciate it, they feel loved.

Women could use a lot more love, and I've noticed that for the majority of marriages much of the water runs dry.

That's great your husband can take out the trash or cleanup. But he should do more. To me, there needs to be a level of initimacy between both. I think this is also crucial that your children are aware of this to, otherwise they will have distorted views on what a marriage is.

I feel way more loved and cherished by the ordinary, every-day stuff my husband takes care of than I do by the extras he bestows on me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-flowers or anti-candlelight dinners and anti-perfume, but if that's the metric you're* using to determine love, you're going to spend a lot of your life dissatisfied. Going to work to provide for us, taking the trash out so I don't have to, picking up milk on the way home... these things speak way louder to me because it's not exciting, totally average, and sacrificial. You get someone flowers because you generally want to do that, and you want their thrilled reaction because it makes you feel good. It's out of the ordinary. Again, it's nice to be the recipient of that kind of fun gesture. That is not what inspires deep wells of love in my heart though. I see him doing things he probably would rather not be doing for the ultimate good of our family and I think, "What a good man." I agree that kids should see spouses doing nice things for each other, but if my kids grow up thinking that this stereotypical romance = love, then I think that is a distorted view on what a marriage is. I would much rather have them grow up realizing that those things are awesome and fun and special occasions, but that love is better shown through actions, many of which seem mundane and unremarkable.

*All you's general
Oh because it sure sounded like you were rationalizing the mundanities within marriage.

I'm not saying I believe in that whole spice up your marriage garbage nor when it comes to sex. I want to strangle the rekindle the spark types.

But that doesn't mean all the romance ends in marriage.

If you're idea of romance from a man is him collecting the trash to take out, then I feel very sorry for you.

I'd rather take the thros of a passionate intitimate relationship with my significant other than her getting glazed eyes because I took some Ajax cleaner to the sink.

Because you've never been married..... Grin
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« Reply #49 on: January 14, 2014, 12:41:24 PM »

Why does Orthodoxy have such a fatalistic view of marriage? "You have DIE. IT's MARTYRDOM!!!!" "It's going to be sooo hard all the time and your kids will ascetically suck the life out of you and you will attain holy dispassion."

Many present it this way, but what about the romance and love? I love my wife and kids and they make me happy. I know that not everyone presents it this way, but sometimes it gets old. It's OK to be happy in your marriage.
As much as I agree with all of this, and I really do, I also like that the Church takes marriage as seriously as it does.

Granted the above is pretty scary stuff, and both people surely need to know what they are getting themselves into, but it should be presented in a different way. This whole "your life is over" upon being married is a real turn off.

But married couples I have seen at the parishes you can tell have a lot of joy. However I know of a priest's wife that wasn't so happy, but that's a different matter...

Well, in a sense, when you get married YOUR life IS over--because it's no longer just about YOU and what you want and need and think is best, etc.  While of course you still maintain your individuality, you are now part of we/us and what you do and do not do must take that into consideration. 
As unsexy as it sounds, the best marriage advice is basically an amplified version of the kind of advice you're going to get for living the Christian life — do unto others, consider yourself the worse sinner and it is more blessed to give than to receive. This all amounts to a death to self, but if you've got two people striving toward the same end, it's reciprocal and no one actually feels dead. It's not so much "my life is over" as it is "my better life has begun."
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« Reply #50 on: January 14, 2014, 12:41:34 PM »

And flowers, chocolate, whatever is an example. Of course with me it is a lot more personalized per girl. I approach my dates around the interests of her. I had one interested in marine biology, so I took her over to the aquarium and got to know her a lot better because of it. Another she loved butterflies, took her to a butterfly pavillion.

Just some examples, not going to broadcast my Greatest Hits.

But anyway, Jeff it doesn't matter if I have never been married. I have cohabited with women before to know what it is like. That's why I am against cohabitation, because the lines between marriage and a relationship are blurred. You gotta take up on more husband roles.

So when people would joke I'm a married man because a girl is living with me, they aren't so far off.
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« Reply #51 on: January 14, 2014, 12:43:18 PM »

I don't know if I necessarily agree. I love to buy the girls in my life things, flowers, chocolates, purses, makeup, perfume, etc. Even just out of spotaneity.

That's not to say I'm buying stuff everyday, but a few times women really do appreciate it, they feel loved.

Women could use a lot more love, and I've noticed that for the majority of marriages much of the water runs dry.

That's great your husband can take out the trash or cleanup. But he should do more. To me, there needs to be a level of initimacy between both. I think this is also crucial that your children are aware of this to, otherwise they will have distorted views on what a marriage is.

I feel way more loved and cherished by the ordinary, every-day stuff my husband takes care of than I do by the extras he bestows on me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-flowers or anti-candlelight dinners and anti-perfume, but if that's the metric you're* using to determine love, you're going to spend a lot of your life dissatisfied. Going to work to provide for us, taking the trash out so I don't have to, picking up milk on the way home... these things speak way louder to me because it's not exciting, totally average, and sacrificial. You get someone flowers because you generally want to do that, and you want their thrilled reaction because it makes you feel good. It's out of the ordinary. Again, it's nice to be the recipient of that kind of fun gesture. That is not what inspires deep wells of love in my heart though. I see him doing things he probably would rather not be doing for the ultimate good of our family and I think, "What a good man." I agree that kids should see spouses doing nice things for each other, but if my kids grow up thinking that this stereotypical romance = love, then I think that is a distorted view on what a marriage is. I would much rather have them grow up realizing that those things are awesome and fun and special occasions, but that love is better shown through actions, many of which seem mundane and unremarkable.

*All you's general
Oh because it sure sounded like you were rationalizing the mundanities within marriage.

I'm not saying I believe in that whole spice up your marriage garbage nor when it comes to sex. I want to strangle the rekindle the spark types.

But that doesn't mean all the romance ends in marriage.

If you're idea of romance from a man is him collecting the trash to take out, then I feel very sorry for you.

I'd rather take the thros of a passionate intitimate relationship with my significant other than her getting glazed eyes because I took some Ajax cleaner to the sink.
Let me know how that "passionate, intimate relationship" is going in 10 years with two kids.

I hope you think back to this thread then, because your older you will get much amusement from your younger you's posts.
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« Reply #52 on: January 14, 2014, 12:55:01 PM »

^ if that is true, and I don't think it is, then marriage most certainly isn't for me.

Marriage shouldn't rob the passion nor intimacy. That sounds crazy.
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« Reply #53 on: January 14, 2014, 12:58:45 PM »

blah blah blah

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« Reply #54 on: January 14, 2014, 12:58:56 PM »

And flowers, chocolate, whatever is an example. Of course with me it is a lot more personalized per girl. I approach my dates around the interests of her. I had one interested in marine biology, so I took her over to the aquarium and got to know her a lot better because of it. Another she loved butterflies, took her to a butterfly pavillion.

Just some examples, not going to broadcast my Greatest Hits.

But anyway, Jeff it doesn't matter if I have never been married. I have cohabited with women before to know what it is like. That's why I am against cohabitation, because the lines between marriage and a relationship are blurred. You gotta take up on more husband roles.

So when people would joke I'm a married man because a girl is living with me, they aren't so far off.

I, too, have "cohabited".  If and when you get married, and it lasts, you will see that there is a world of difference, and any similarities are, with rare exception, purely superficial.  
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« Reply #55 on: January 14, 2014, 12:59:34 PM »

^ if that is true, and I don't think it is, then marriage most certainly isn't for me.

Marriage shouldn't rob the passion nor intimacy. That sounds crazy.

It's called 'getting your priorities straight'.
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« Reply #56 on: January 14, 2014, 01:03:21 PM »

^ if that is true, and I don't think it is, then marriage most certainly isn't for me.

Marriage shouldn't rob the passion nor intimacy. That sounds crazy.

It's called 'getting your priorities straight'.
There's room for all of that too.

At least Isa was the most honest in this thread.
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« Reply #57 on: January 14, 2014, 01:05:09 PM »

^ if that is true, and I don't think it is, then marriage most certainly isn't for me.

Marriage shouldn't rob the passion nor intimacy. That sounds crazy.

It's called 'getting your priorities straight'.
There's room for all of that too.

At least Isa was the most honest in this thread.

Who has been dishonest, and in what way, pray tell?
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« Reply #58 on: January 14, 2014, 01:21:33 PM »

^ if that is true, and I don't think it is, then marriage most certainly isn't for me.

Marriage shouldn't rob the passion nor intimacy. That sounds crazy.

It's called 'getting your priorities straight'.
There's room for all of that too.

At least Isa was the most honest in this thread.

Who has been dishonest, and in what way, pray tell?
I said *most* honest, he isn't afraid to show off his failed marriage.
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« Reply #59 on: January 14, 2014, 01:25:12 PM »

^ if that is true, and I don't think it is, then marriage most certainly isn't for me.

Marriage shouldn't rob the passion nor intimacy. That sounds crazy.

It's called 'getting your priorities straight'.
There's room for all of that too.

At least Isa was the most honest in this thread.

Who has been dishonest, and in what way, pray tell?
I said *most* honest, he isn't afraid to show off his failed marriage.

We were just showing off our successful ones. Smiley
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« Reply #60 on: January 14, 2014, 01:27:50 PM »

^ if that is true, and I don't think it is, then marriage most certainly isn't for me.

Marriage shouldn't rob the passion nor intimacy. That sounds crazy.
How one measures passion and intimacy is a bit of a moving target when you're five, eight and I assume 15 and 30 years into a relationship. And that ain't a bad thing -- higher up and deeper in. Every night isn't day three of the honeymoon -- though you can still have plenty of those -- but if you both keep at it the connection of mutual joys and griefs and -- yes-- sexyness is much greater.

Sure life can have its mundane moments and two kids can put an occasional (or often) krimp in your swerve, but if you're actually committed to the relationship you don't have to worry.

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« Reply #61 on: January 14, 2014, 01:28:21 PM »

^ if that is true, and I don't think it is, then marriage most certainly isn't for me.

Marriage shouldn't rob the passion nor intimacy. That sounds crazy.

It's called 'getting your priorities straight'.
There's room for all of that too.

At least Isa was the most honest in this thread.

Who has been dishonest, and in what way, pray tell?
I said *most* honest, he isn't afraid to show off his failed marriage.
Is a failed marriage the only one worth showing?
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« Reply #62 on: January 14, 2014, 01:31:43 PM »

My parents have been married a gazillion years. So were my grandparents. That's only once each.

 Kiss
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« Reply #63 on: January 14, 2014, 01:33:01 PM »

^ if that is true, and I don't think it is, then marriage most certainly isn't for me.

Marriage shouldn't rob the passion nor intimacy. That sounds crazy.

It's called 'getting your priorities straight'.
There's room for all of that too.

At least Isa was the most honest in this thread.

Who has been dishonest, and in what way, pray tell?
I said *most* honest, he isn't afraid to show off his failed marriage.
Is a failed marriage the only one worth showing?
I'm just saying the degree of honesty isn't as high. I think there lies more behind the projections folks make from their marriages.

And really I wanted to avoid ancedotal experiences because obviously its going to be different.

It seems to me there are no universals. So this notion of "well wait til you get married" rings hollow.
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« Reply #64 on: January 14, 2014, 01:34:20 PM »

^ if that is true, and I don't think it is, then marriage most certainly isn't for me.

Marriage shouldn't rob the passion nor intimacy. That sounds crazy.

It's called 'getting your priorities straight'.
There's room for all of that too.

At least Isa was the most honest in this thread.

Who has been dishonest, and in what way, pray tell?
I said *most* honest, he isn't afraid to show off his failed marriage.
Is a failed marriage the only one worth showing?

Only if you're going to be "most" honest. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes  
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« Reply #65 on: January 14, 2014, 01:36:38 PM »

^ if that is true, and I don't think it is, then marriage most certainly isn't for me.

Marriage shouldn't rob the passion nor intimacy. That sounds crazy.

It's called 'getting your priorities straight'.
There's room for all of that too.

At least Isa was the most honest in this thread.

Who has been dishonest, and in what way, pray tell?
I said *most* honest, he isn't afraid to show off his failed marriage.

I've had a failed marriage, too.  Now...does that make me more "honest", or less, because I choose not to "show" it "off"?  Or will I only become REALLY "honest" when I reveal all the details of ALL my relationships?  FWIW, that ain't gonna happen, not here anyway. Grin
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« Reply #66 on: January 14, 2014, 01:40:18 PM »

Sorry Jeff but this thread I fear paints a bleak, somber and gloomy portrait of being married.

What I have gathered so far is that I should look forward to the routine banalities and love the other for it.

Sure there are going to be times of that, no doubt. But it shouldn't be the norm.
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« Reply #67 on: January 14, 2014, 01:41:30 PM »

^ if that is true, and I don't think it is, then marriage most certainly isn't for me.

Marriage shouldn't rob the passion nor intimacy. That sounds crazy.

It's called 'getting your priorities straight'.
There's room for all of that too.

At least Isa was the most honest in this thread.

Who has been dishonest, and in what way, pray tell?
I said *most* honest, he isn't afraid to show off his failed marriage.
Is a failed marriage the only one worth showing?
I'm just saying the degree of honesty isn't as high. I think there lies more behind the projections folks make from their marriages.
Who cares about their projections if they're happy? No relationship really works if you aren't willing to ignore the sins of the other to some degree.

Quote
And really I wanted to avoid ancedotal experiences because obviously its going to be different.
How is Isa's experience any different than being anecdotal?

Quote
It seems to me there are no universals.
Quite, which is why I would only speak in the broadest of terms. What works for me wouldn't work for you, because we ain't very much alike and from what I gather from your past posting you wouldn't settle with a woman like my beloved.

Quote
So this notion of "well wait til you get married" rings hollow.
Not really sure what you're getting at here.
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« Reply #68 on: January 14, 2014, 01:47:16 PM »

Sorry Jeff but this thread I fear paints a bleak, somber and gloomy portrait of being married.

What I have gathered so far is that I should look forward to the routine banalities and love the other for it.

Sure there are going to be times of that, no doubt. But it shouldn't be the norm.

Just make sure you're vastly rich and have a passionate wife that never ages/changes/matures.
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« Reply #69 on: January 14, 2014, 01:59:52 PM »

Who cares about their projections if they're happy? No relationship really works if you aren't willing to ignore the sins of the other to some degree.
But see that's what I want to get at. The blood, sweat and tears of a marriage.

I mean lets have both the worst and best brought forth.

If your marriage sucks or have regrets then speak up, and say explicitly why. Get rid of the forum vanity and be more honest.

Quote
How is Isa's experience any different than being anecdotal?
Well the interesting part is he is divorced.

My problem with trusting the experiences of those still married once is that they could very well be dragging out a terrible marriage for whatever reason that may be.

Love in virtue of doing chores raises an immediate red flag.

Quote
Quite, which is why I would only speak in the broadest of terms. What works for me wouldn't work for you, because we ain't very much alike and from what I gather from your past posting you wouldn't settle with a woman like my beloved.

Well dude I am the best and I want a woman of my equal. If I am getting married only once, I will have it no other way.

Quote
Not really sure what you're getting at here.
This whole reply about "well you arent married to know!" in regards to what actually goes on within it.
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« Reply #70 on: January 14, 2014, 02:09:27 PM »

Well dude I am the best and I want a woman of my equal. If I am getting married only once, I will have it no other way.

Two people who each think they're the best probably wouldn't get along.
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« Reply #71 on: January 14, 2014, 02:10:02 PM »

Who cares about their projections if they're happy? No relationship really works if you aren't willing to ignore the sins of the other to some degree.
But see that's what I want to get at. The blood, sweat and tears of a marriage.

I mean lets have both the worst and best brought forth.

If your marriage sucks or have regrets then speak up, and say explicitly why. Get rid of the forum vanity and be more honest...Love in virtue of doing chores raises an immediate red flag.

What's interesting is that those who talk about having someone take over the unpleasant chores as one of the benefits of marriage is they are women. I don't put 100 percent stock in the "love languages" psychology that gets bandied out every couple of years, but almost across the board women will complain or praise their marriage based in part on their husband's willingness to do chores. There's something about the human experience that speaks specifically to married women about someone who is willing to do something they do not want to do, especially when the motivation is the recipient's comfort.

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« Reply #72 on: January 14, 2014, 02:13:22 PM »

Who cares about their projections if they're happy? No relationship really works if you aren't willing to ignore the sins of the other to some degree.
But see that's what I want to get at. The blood, sweat and tears of a marriage.

I mean lets have both the worst and best brought forth.

If your marriage sucks or have regrets then speak up, and say explicitly why. Get rid of the forum vanity and be more honest.

Did it ever occur to you that people might not want to do so and/or that it might just be none of your business??  Has nothin' to do with being "honest" or some imagined "forum vanity".
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« Reply #73 on: January 14, 2014, 02:21:48 PM »

Sorry Jeff but this thread I fear paints a bleak, somber and gloomy portrait of being married.

What I have gathered so far is that I should look forward to the routine banalities and love the other for it.

Sure there are going to be times of that, no doubt. But it shouldn't be the norm.

Just make sure you're vastly rich and have a passionate wife that never ages/changes/matures.

And who will never tire of you in any way, shape, or form.  This kind of implies that you need to be both vastly rich AND almost perfect.  But, since you, Shiny, are "the best" (even if you do say so yourself  Roll Eyes ), you'll probably just need to work on that being vastly rich thing.  But, how would that then mesh with your "politics".   Grin
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« Reply #74 on: January 14, 2014, 02:29:02 PM »

Who cares about their projections if they're happy? No relationship really works if you aren't willing to ignore the sins of the other to some degree.
But see that's what I want to get at. The blood, sweat and tears of a marriage.

I mean lets have both the worst and best brought forth.

If your marriage sucks or have regrets then speak up, and say explicitly why. Get rid of the forum vanity and be more honest...Love in virtue of doing chores raises an immediate red flag.

What's interesting is that those who talk about having someone take over the unpleasant chores as one of the benefits of marriage is they are women. I don't put 100 percent stock in the "love languages" psychology that gets bandied out every couple of years, but almost across the board women will complain or praise their marriage based in part on their husband's willingness to do chores. There's something about the human experience that speaks specifically to married women about someone who is willing to do something they do not want to do, especially when the motivation is the recipient's comfort.



My wife is a big believer in the whole "love language" thing.  I'm not.  We've had some strong discussions.  We still love each other.
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« Reply #75 on: January 14, 2014, 02:34:26 PM »

^ is that the book on 5 different languages. I've heard of it off hand.

If that gets brought up late in a relationship...well you know the rest.
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« Reply #76 on: January 14, 2014, 02:35:14 PM »

Who cares about their projections if they're happy? No relationship really works if you aren't willing to ignore the sins of the other to some degree.
But see that's what I want to get at. The blood, sweat and tears of a marriage.

I mean lets have both the worst and best brought forth.

If your marriage sucks or have regrets then speak up, and say explicitly why. Get rid of the forum vanity and be more honest.

Did it ever occur to you that people might not want to do so and/or that it might just be none of your business??  Has nothin' to do with being "honest" or some imagined "forum vanity".
And people make it a point their successes be my business. Odd...
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« Reply #77 on: January 14, 2014, 02:36:58 PM »

^ is that the book on 5 different languages. I've heard of it off hand.

If that gets brought up late in a relationship...well you know the rest.
No, it was brought early on.  My Baptist sister gave it to us when we got married.  It's been a thorn in my side ever since. 

So, no, I don't know the rest. Wink
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« Reply #78 on: January 14, 2014, 02:41:35 PM »

I think I have been pretty honest about my relationship with my wife on here.  We have had good times, we have had bad times.  On the whole, I would say the good outweigh the bad; I'm sure for others it is reverse. Anyone that tells you that marriage is an unmitigated joy all the time has never been married or is just lying. Are there times when I would like to just hang it up?  Yes,  but there are also times when I wouldn't trade it for the world.
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« Reply #79 on: January 14, 2014, 02:42:23 PM »

Yeah you know how people rag on here about not marrying someone of a different faith? What you said above validates it.

How is that even still a thorn in your side? Man up.
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« Reply #80 on: January 14, 2014, 02:43:47 PM »

Who cares about their projections if they're happy? No relationship really works if you aren't willing to ignore the sins of the other to some degree.
But see that's what I want to get at. The blood, sweat and tears of a marriage.

I mean lets have both the worst and best brought forth.

If your marriage sucks or have regrets then speak up, and say explicitly why. Get rid of the forum vanity and be more honest.

Did it ever occur to you that people might not want to do so and/or that it might just be none of your business??  Has nothin' to do with being "honest" or some imagined "forum vanity".
And people make it a point their successes be my business. Odd...

But they are under no obligation to share or point out to you their failures if they don't want to.  It has nothing to do with "honesty".  Or is that something you think you "deserve" to know?
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« Reply #81 on: January 14, 2014, 02:44:48 PM »

Yeah you know how people rag on here about not marrying someone of a different faith? What you said above validates it.

How is that even still a thorn in your side? Man up.

Anyone ever tell you you're pushy?
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« Reply #82 on: January 14, 2014, 02:44:56 PM »

I think I have been pretty honest about my relationship with my wife on here.  We have had good times, we have had bad times.  On the whole, I would say the good outweigh the bad; I'm sure for others it is reverse. Anyone that tells you that marriage is an unmitigated joy all the time has never been married or is just lying. Are there times when I would like to just hang it up?  Yes,  but there are also times when I wouldn't trade it for the world.
But dude when someone is saying things have changed to where cleaning out the grime from a bathtub gets you sexually aroused...you just gotta think what he ain't doing in the marriage.

All I'm saying.
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« Reply #83 on: January 14, 2014, 02:45:50 PM »

I think I have been pretty honest about my relationship with my wife on here.  We have had good times, we have had bad times.  On the whole, I would say the good outweigh the bad; I'm sure for others it is reverse. Anyone that tells you that marriage is an unmitigated joy all the time has never been married or is just lying. Are there times when I would like to just hang it up?  Yes,  but there are also times when I wouldn't trade it for the world.
But dude when someone is saying things have changed to where cleaning out the grime from a bathtub gets you sexually aroused...you just gotta think what he ain't doing in the marriage.



ROTFL!!!!
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« Reply #84 on: January 14, 2014, 02:47:09 PM »

Yeah you know how people rag on here about not marrying someone of a different faith? What you said above validates it.

How is that even still a thorn in your side? Man up.

It's my thorn and I deal with it. Kiss  You should take your own advice to "Man up".
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« Reply #85 on: January 14, 2014, 02:50:48 PM »

But dude when someone is saying things have changed to where cleaning out the grime from a bathtub gets you sexually aroused...you just gotta think what he ain't doing in the marriage.

All I'm saying.

a) I get to ogle his rump as he goes about his business.
b) It's one less job for me to do, hence more energy saved to be frisky.

All I'm saying. angel
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« Reply #86 on: January 14, 2014, 02:52:44 PM »

I think I have been pretty honest about my relationship with my wife on here.  We have had good times, we have had bad times.  On the whole, I would say the good outweigh the bad; I'm sure for others it is reverse. Anyone that tells you that marriage is an unmitigated joy all the time has never been married or is just lying. Are there times when I would like to just hang it up?  Yes,  but there are also times when I wouldn't trade it for the world.
But dude when someone is saying things have changed to where cleaning out the grime from a bathtub gets you sexually aroused...you just gotta think what he ain't doing in the marriage.

All I'm saying.
Cheesy

Cute.

I'm sure you know that it isn't the act of cleaning out the bathtub that gets her off. If that were the case, I could hire a maid and have a three-way. It is the fact that I am doing something that is distasteful for her that makes it attractive. My wife makes my lunch which I hate doing.  The fact that she does it without complaining and knows that I don't like doing it makes it special.  Am I saying that I don't want to see her dressed up and looking sexy? No, I like that too.  It is just that your relationship goes deeper.  You see how the other person does things for you and even though they are little sacrifices, the more times it happens, the more the two of you are knit together and become one.
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« Reply #87 on: January 14, 2014, 02:54:46 PM »

But dude when someone is saying things have changed to where cleaning out the grime from a bathtub gets you sexually aroused...you just gotta think what he ain't doing in the marriage.

All I'm saying.

a) I get to ogle his rump as he goes about his business.
b) It's one less job for me to do, hence more energy saved to be frisky.

All I'm saying. angel
Are you saying the husband doing the laundry gets more sex. Wink

And what energy? There are different positions for women just to lie back you know...
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« Reply #88 on: January 14, 2014, 02:57:20 PM »

But dude when someone is saying things have changed to where cleaning out the grime from a bathtub gets you sexually aroused...you just gotta think what he ain't doing in the marriage.

All I'm saying.

a) I get to ogle his rump as he goes about his business.
b) It's one less job for me to do, hence more energy saved to be frisky.

All I'm saying. angel
Are you saying the husband doing the laundry gets more sex. Wink

And what energy? There are different positions for women just to lie back you know...
This has been my experience.  Wink
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« Reply #89 on: January 14, 2014, 03:03:39 PM »

But dude when someone is saying things have changed to where cleaning out the grime from a bathtub gets you sexually aroused...you just gotta think what he ain't doing in the marriage.

All I'm saying.

a) I get to ogle his rump as he goes about his business.
b) It's one less job for me to do, hence more energy saved to be frisky.

All I'm saying. angel
Are you saying the husband doing the laundry gets more sex. Wink

Bonus if he tackles the dishes and remembers to empty the vacuum drum as well. Wink

And what energy? There are different positions for women just to lie back you know...

Ideal for falling asleep in, natch.
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« Reply #90 on: January 14, 2014, 03:13:38 PM »

Oh and there are bonuses? I guess I can get onboard with that kind of a game.

And I was referencing a feminazi study about men who do household chores have more sex.

Frankly its woman's work, men got other things to do.
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« Reply #91 on: January 14, 2014, 03:14:50 PM »

Why do I get the feeling that Aposophet here really, desperately wants to settle down with a nice girl and raise a couple of Corgis they take along with them when they go antiquing on the weekend, and is trying to talk himself out of it?

Also, I have an alternate theory that he's JamesR from the future.
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« Reply #92 on: January 14, 2014, 03:19:30 PM »

Why do I get the feeling that Aposophet here really, desperately wants to settle down with a nice girl and raise a couple of Corgis they take along with them when they go antiquing on the weekend, and is trying to talk himself out of it?

Also, I have an alternate theory that he's JamesR from the future.
You should know that I am fond of teacup yorkies. Come on Agabus, if you are gonna remember all my usernames get my biography right.


Sheeeeeeeesh.
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« Reply #93 on: January 14, 2014, 03:21:11 PM »

Why do I get the feeling that Aposophet here really, desperately wants to settle down with a nice girl and raise a couple of Corgis they take along with them when they go antiquing on the weekend, and is trying to talk himself out of it?

Also, I have an alternate theory that he's JamesR from the future.

LOL!!

That should pretty much bring this thread to a screeching halt. 
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« Reply #94 on: January 14, 2014, 03:24:05 PM »

Why do I get the feeling that Aposophet here really, desperately wants to settle down with a nice girl and raise a couple of Corgis they take along with them when they go antiquing on the weekend, and is trying to talk himself out of it?

Also, I have an alternate theory that he's JamesR from the future.

That explains why people from the future don't use Twitter or Facebook.  It's better to be under the radar on OC.net.
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« Reply #95 on: January 14, 2014, 03:25:44 PM »

But dude when someone is saying things have changed to where cleaning out the grime from a bathtub gets you sexually aroused...you just gotta think what he ain't doing in the marriage.

All I'm saying.

 Roll Eyes

Sorry the honesty flowing forth from my keyboard isn't to your standard, but I was being honest about good aspects of my marriage. If you want me to tell you all about our fights and struggles and weak spots, you're out of luck. I don't tell those even to family or friends, so I'm certainly not going to spill it for internet strangers.  Wink
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« Reply #96 on: January 14, 2014, 03:27:02 PM »

Frankly its woman's work, men got other things to do.

Of course. Because nothing says True Manly ManTM like depending on one's wife for socks and long johns. Cheesy
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« Reply #97 on: January 14, 2014, 03:29:27 PM »

But dude when someone is saying things have changed to where cleaning out the grime from a bathtub gets you sexually aroused...you just gotta think what he ain't doing in the marriage.

All I'm saying.

a) I get to ogle his rump as he goes about his business.
b) It's one less job for me to do, hence more energy saved to be frisky.

All I'm saying. angel
Are you saying the husband doing the laundry gets more sex. Wink

And what energy? There are different positions for women just to lie back you know...
This has been my experience.  Wink

Lucky.  Never been mine.  Chicks under 30 just seem like they don't do any housework, and don't care if it doesn't get done.  No bonus points for a man who does it because it needs doing, she'll just expend energy on messing it all up again rather than rewarding the fruits of my labour.
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« Reply #98 on: January 14, 2014, 03:38:03 PM »

Why do I get the feeling that Aposophet here really, desperately wants to settle down with a nice girl and raise a couple of Corgis they take along with them when they go antiquing on the weekend, and is trying to talk himself out of it?

Also, I have an alternate theory that he's JamesR from the future.
You should know that I am fond of teacup yorkies. Come on Agabus, if you are gonna remember all my usernames get my biography right.


Sheeeeeeeesh.
LOL, FWIW I like you, but I skip about a third of your posts. I'm sure it was in there somewhere.

When I see your posts, even though my eyes read "Shiny" my mind reads "Achronos." That's actually how I started the post,  but I realized my mistake and decided to go the other way.

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« Reply #99 on: January 14, 2014, 03:42:38 PM »

Chicks under 30 just seem like they don't do any housework, and don't care if it doesn't get done.  No bonus points for a man who does it because it needs doing, she'll just expend energy on messing it all up again rather than rewarding the fruits of my labour.

+1
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« Reply #100 on: January 14, 2014, 03:43:56 PM »

But dude when someone is saying things have changed to where cleaning out the grime from a bathtub gets you sexually aroused...you just gotta think what he ain't doing in the marriage.

All I'm saying.

a) I get to ogle his rump as he goes about his business.
b) It's one less job for me to do, hence more energy saved to be frisky.

All I'm saying. angel
Are you saying the husband doing the laundry gets more sex. Wink

And what energy? There are different positions for women just to lie back you know...
This has been my experience.  Wink

Lucky.  Never been mine.  Chicks under 30 just seem like they don't do any housework, and don't care if it doesn't get done.  No bonus points for a man who does it because it needs doing, she'll just expend energy on messing it all up again rather than rewarding the fruits of my labour.
See that is why sluts around that age dont have any real life skills. They dont know how to cook nor clean.

Ain't no man gonna make an honest or real woman out of her.
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« Reply #101 on: January 14, 2014, 03:44:30 PM »

But dude when someone is saying things have changed to where cleaning out the grime from a bathtub gets you sexually aroused...you just gotta think what he ain't doing in the marriage.

All I'm saying.

a) I get to ogle his rump as he goes about his business.
b) It's one less job for me to do, hence more energy saved to be frisky.

All I'm saying. angel
Are you saying the husband doing the laundry gets more sex. Wink

And what energy? There are different positions for women just to lie back you know...
This has been my experience.  Wink

Lucky.  Never been mine.  Chicks under 30 just seem like they don't do any housework, and don't care if it doesn't get done.  No bonus points for a man who does it because it needs doing, she'll just expend energy on messing it all up again rather than rewarding the fruits of my labour.

Marry a 65 year old.  She'll be able to cook and bake and sew and she has a pension.
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« Reply #102 on: January 14, 2014, 03:48:23 PM »

Marry a 65 year old.  She'll be able to cook and bake and sew and she has a pension.

 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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« Reply #103 on: January 14, 2014, 03:53:24 PM »

Marry a 65 year old.  She'll be able to cook and bake and sew and she has a pension.

 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Laugh all you want, but when he gets a birthday card with five bucks, he'll thank me.

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« Reply #104 on: January 14, 2014, 03:55:17 PM »

But dude when someone is saying things have changed to where cleaning out the grime from a bathtub gets you sexually aroused...you just gotta think what he ain't doing in the marriage.

All I'm saying.

a) I get to ogle his rump as he goes about his business.
b) It's one less job for me to do, hence more energy saved to be frisky.

All I'm saying. angel
Are you saying the husband doing the laundry gets more sex. Wink

And what energy? There are different positions for women just to lie back you know...
This has been my experience.  Wink

Lucky.  Never been mine.  Chicks under 30 just seem like they don't do any housework, and don't care if it doesn't get done.  No bonus points for a man who does it because it needs doing, she'll just expend energy on messing it all up again rather than rewarding the fruits of my labour.
See that is why sluts around that age dont have any real life skills. They dont know how to cook nor clean.

Ain't no man gonna make an honest or real woman out of her.

There ya go with the "sluts" thing again.  Must you??  REALLY?!?  WHY?!?!? 
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« Reply #105 on: January 14, 2014, 03:58:03 PM »

There ya go with the "sluts" thing again.  Must you??  REALLY?!?  WHY?!?!? 

I was thinking the same thing.
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« Reply #106 on: January 14, 2014, 04:01:29 PM »

Marry a 65 year old.  She'll be able to cook and bake and sew and she has a pension.

 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

It would be funnier if I hadn't thought about it before.  Perhaps not as a wife, but I would definitely adopt an old widow who's natural children had abandoned her or something, supposing I had the g-money for any dependents.
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« Reply #107 on: January 14, 2014, 04:02:54 PM »

But dude when someone is saying things have changed to where cleaning out the grime from a bathtub gets you sexually aroused...you just gotta think what he ain't doing in the marriage.

All I'm saying.

a) I get to ogle his rump as he goes about his business.
b) It's one less job for me to do, hence more energy saved to be frisky.

All I'm saying. angel
Are you saying the husband doing the laundry gets more sex. Wink

And what energy? There are different positions for women just to lie back you know...
This has been my experience.  Wink

Lucky.  Never been mine.  Chicks under 30 just seem like they don't do any housework, and don't care if it doesn't get done.  No bonus points for a man who does it because it needs doing, she'll just expend energy on messing it all up again rather than rewarding the fruits of my labour.
See that is why sluts around that age dont have any real life skills. They dont know how to cook nor clean.

Ain't no man gonna make an honest or real woman out of her.
Solution: Stop dating sluts.
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« Reply #108 on: January 14, 2014, 04:03:58 PM »

Marry a 65 year old.  She'll be able to cook and bake and sew and she has a pension.

 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

It would be funnier if I hadn't thought about it before.  Perhaps not as a wife, but I would definitely adopt an old widow who's natural children had abandoned her or something, supposing I had the g-money for any dependents.

You don't even have to do that.  Just be kind and visit often.  Help her with yard work.  She may just put you in her will.  At the very least make you a nice lunch after mowing the lawn and pruning trees.
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« Reply #109 on: January 14, 2014, 04:04:52 PM »

But dude when someone is saying things have changed to where cleaning out the grime from a bathtub gets you sexually aroused...you just gotta think what he ain't doing in the marriage.

All I'm saying.

a) I get to ogle his rump as he goes about his business.
b) It's one less job for me to do, hence more energy saved to be frisky.

All I'm saying. angel
Are you saying the husband doing the laundry gets more sex. Wink

And what energy? There are different positions for women just to lie back you know...
This has been my experience.  Wink

Lucky.  Never been mine.  Chicks under 30 just seem like they don't do any housework, and don't care if it doesn't get done.  No bonus points for a man who does it because it needs doing, she'll just expend energy on messing it all up again rather than rewarding the fruits of my labour.
See that is why sluts around that age dont have any real life skills. They dont know how to cook nor clean.

Ain't no man gonna make an honest or real woman out of her.

There are legions of chumps out there plenty happy to be validated by the attraction of a good looking (if aged a bit) female.

Seriously chumps, find a young ugly chick who cleans and wants kids.  You'll make her day (year, life) and you might get something out of it.  You'll reap the rewards of superficiality to the tune of 50% divorce rape.
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« Reply #110 on: January 14, 2014, 04:29:32 PM »

I apologize for being so blunt (and late in joining this thread). If one asks the OP's question, one should not get married. Ever.
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« Reply #111 on: January 14, 2014, 04:37:55 PM »

I apologize for being so blunt (and late in joining this thread). If one asks the OP's question, one should not get married. Ever.
Please explain Carl.
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« Reply #112 on: January 14, 2014, 09:12:59 PM »

But dude when someone is saying things have changed to where cleaning out the grime from a bathtub gets you sexually aroused...you just gotta think what he ain't doing in the marriage.

All I'm saying.

a) I get to ogle his rump as he goes about his business.
b) It's one less job for me to do, hence more energy saved to be frisky.

All I'm saying. angel
Are you saying the husband doing the laundry gets more sex. Wink

And what energy? There are different positions for women just to lie back you know...
This has been my experience.  Wink

Lucky.  Never been mine.  Chicks under 30 just seem like they don't do any housework, and don't care if it doesn't get done.  No bonus points for a man who does it because it needs doing, she'll just expend energy on messing it all up again rather than rewarding the fruits of my labour.
See that is why sluts around that age dont have any real life skills. They dont know how to cook nor clean.

Ain't no man gonna make an honest or real woman out of her.

Yet again, you disgust me, Achronos.
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« Reply #113 on: January 14, 2014, 10:02:51 PM »

^ I agree. This is unseemly for a forum on Christ's Church.

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« Reply #114 on: January 14, 2014, 10:05:13 PM »

Why do I get the feeling that Aposophet here really, desperately wants to settle down with a nice girl and raise a couple of Corgis they take along with them when they go antiquing on the weekend, and is trying to talk himself out of it?

Also, I have an alternate theory that he's JamesR from the future.
You should know that I am fond of teacup yorkies. Come on Agabus, if you are gonna remember all my usernames get my biography right.


Sheeeeeeeesh.
LOL, FWIW I like you, but I skip about a third of your posts. I'm sure it was in there somewhere.

When I see your posts, even though my eyes read "Shiny" my mind reads "Achronos." That's actually how I started the post,  but I realized my mistake and decided to go the other way.



Aren't Shiny and Achronos the same?
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« Reply #115 on: January 14, 2014, 10:06:20 PM »

But dude when someone is saying things have changed to where cleaning out the grime from a bathtub gets you sexually aroused...you just gotta think what he ain't doing in the marriage.

All I'm saying.

a) I get to ogle his rump as he goes about his business.
b) It's one less job for me to do, hence more energy saved to be frisky.

All I'm saying. angel
Are you saying the husband doing the laundry gets more sex. Wink

And what energy? There are different positions for women just to lie back you know...
This has been my experience.  Wink

Lucky.  Never been mine.  Chicks under 30 just seem like they don't do any housework, and don't care if it doesn't get done.  No bonus points for a man who does it because it needs doing, she'll just expend energy on messing it all up again rather than rewarding the fruits of my labour.
See that is why sluts around that age dont have any real life skills. They dont know how to cook nor clean.

Ain't no man gonna make an honest or real woman out of her.

There ya go with the "sluts" thing again.  Must you??  REALLY?!?  WHY?!?!? 

He does it so that he'll never have to worry about getting married.
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« Reply #116 on: January 14, 2014, 10:13:37 PM »

Why do I get the feeling that Aposophet here really, desperately wants to settle down with a nice girl and raise a couple of Corgis they take along with them when they go antiquing on the weekend, and is trying to talk himself out of it?

Also, I have an alternate theory that he's JamesR from the future.
You should know that I am fond of teacup yorkies. Come on Agabus, if you are gonna remember all my usernames get my biography right.


Sheeeeeeeesh.
LOL, FWIW I like you, but I skip about a third of your posts. I'm sure it was in there somewhere.

When I see your posts, even though my eyes read "Shiny" my mind reads "Achronos." That's actually how I started the post,  but I realized my mistake and decided to go the other way.



Aren't Shiny and Achronos the same?

Yes, they are. As is Aposphet. My earlier post was intentionally worded.
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« Reply #117 on: January 14, 2014, 10:35:44 PM »

Aren't there rules about a single person having multiple accounts/usernames?
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« Reply #118 on: January 14, 2014, 10:39:07 PM »

That's great your husband can take out the trash or cleanup. But he should do more. To me, there needs to be a level of initimacy between both. I think this is also crucial that your children are aware of this to, otherwise they will have distorted views on what a marriage is.

Uh, like you have?

Sounds like someone has a presupposed concept of marriage and relationships.

I don't know if you are aware of this, but good research doesn't go backward just to back up your assumption.
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« Reply #119 on: January 14, 2014, 11:01:16 PM »

*** WARNING AVERT YOUR EYES IF YOU HAVE DELICATE SENSIBILITIES ***

Sex and passion have an entirely new meaning when you have been married, with children for some time. Once you have a certain number of kids, the phrase "The kids are asleep" can be an invitation if you catch my drift Wink I knew a young man that wanted to have hours long sexual escapades three times a day. And many a newly married couple can do precisely that. But there is a difference between those early escapades, and the sex later in marriage. After having the same partner for quite some time, things just get better.


I have met a lot of women though that have absolutely no skills in making a home. I blame in part the push for women to cast aside the skills of their grandmothers and "accomplish" something. The husbands will do much of the care of the home, the cooking, and work a full time job as well. I don't think that is right/fair to the husband.

My husband doesn't have a ton of time. He works full time, and he helps when he can. I stayed up until 7 AM with our 7 month old last night. When I woke to the dishes being clean, I was happy beyond belief. He knew that it would be hard to manage the 7 month old, make dinner from scratch, and everything else given how tired I was. Doing the dishes was the most loving thing he could have done. It meant far more to me than a bouquet of flowers on the counter. If I was incapable of keeping our home, we wouldn't have 6 children. But there are certainly times when I need help.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 11:05:06 PM by Quinault » Logged
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« Reply #120 on: January 14, 2014, 11:55:15 PM »

^ I agree. This is unseemly for a forum on Christ's Church.



Where is everyone's disdain when vamrat uses the same language and worse frankly? He is the one IIRC that first started writing slut here. Or I could be wrong. Let's see:

https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.orthodoxchristianity.net%2Fforum%2F+slut

Maybe Isa or Kerdy beat him to it. No idea why google loves to index the mobile version of this site.
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« Reply #121 on: January 14, 2014, 11:57:20 PM »

Just looked at this thread. It is rather unseemly. It would be great if certain users didn't broadcast their weird sexual proclivities every fourth post. Thanks.
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« Reply #122 on: January 14, 2014, 11:58:46 PM »

A lot of WIN though thanks to hecma925 and agabus. I am dying laughing. Future JamesR! Brilliant.
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« Reply #123 on: January 14, 2014, 11:59:35 PM »

^ I agree. This is unseemly for a forum on Christ's Church.



Where is everyone's disdain when vamrat uses the same language and worse frankly? He is the one IIRC that first started writing slut here. Or I could be wrong. Let's see:

https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.orthodoxchristianity.net%2Fforum%2F+slut

Maybe Isa or Kerdy beat him to it. No idea why google loves to index the mobile version of this site.

Some of us have been reporting such posts. What happens as a result is then out of our hands.
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« Reply #124 on: January 15, 2014, 12:08:54 AM »

^ I agree. This is unseemly for a forum on Christ's Church.



Where is everyone's disdain when vamrat uses the same language and worse frankly? He is the one IIRC that first started writing slut here. Or I could be wrong. Let's see:

https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.orthodoxchristianity.net%2Fforum%2F+slut

Maybe Isa or Kerdy beat him to it. No idea why google loves to index the mobile version of this site.

Some of us have been reporting such posts. What happens as a result is then out of our hands.

And if people can't see that whoever or whatever Achronos is today isn't satirizing that fact should read a little more closely.

Isa says worse about his own wife. vamrat, *, and company turned the relationship thread in a pit of misogyny. But hey posting hyperbole about the way many men, and women it seems, think around here is disgusting.

Really, this is one of the harshest places I've seen towards women and I've seen some pretty far out stuff on the internet. At least the other places don't dress up their hateful and resentful language in the language of religion and relationship pragmatics.

Really, this thread is nothing compared to the guy who used to post here who bragged about his foreign acquired bride and benefits of "having" one versus a Western woman. He would also go on about "beta" males.

Oh, one last thing, I would say that at least three posters in good faith in this thread revealed some concerning problems in their marriages. They should note those problems, which they think are strengths, and thank whoever started the thread for getting that stuff out into the air.
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« Reply #125 on: January 15, 2014, 12:09:32 AM »

Really,
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« Reply #126 on: January 15, 2014, 12:14:37 AM »

Quote
Isa says worse about his own wife.

Isa has been divorced for years now.  police
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« Reply #127 on: January 15, 2014, 12:26:50 AM »

Just looked at this thread. It is rather unseemly. It would be great if certain users didn't broadcast their weird sexual proclivities every fourth post. Thanks.

Did someone die recently and make you an arbiter of conduct on this forum before their untimely demise?
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« Reply #128 on: January 15, 2014, 12:30:38 AM »

Just looked at this thread. It is rather unseemly. It would be great if certain users didn't broadcast their weird sexual proclivities every fourth post. Thanks.

Did someone die recently and make you an arbiter of conduct on this forum before their untimely demise?

Should this post of yours be seen as condoning the language and behavior on this thread which have been found objectionable by some who have voiced their objection? I might add that there are likely others who also feel things have gone too far.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 12:32:27 AM by LBK » Logged
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« Reply #129 on: January 15, 2014, 12:34:11 AM »

Just looked at this thread. It is rather unseemly. It would be great if certain users didn't broadcast their weird sexual proclivities every fourth post. Thanks.

Did someone die recently and make you an arbiter of conduct on this forum before their untimely demise?

Should this post of yours be seen as condoning the language and behavior on this thread which have been found objectionable by some who have voiced their objection? I might add that there are likely others who also feel things have gone too far.

No, it should not be seen that way.
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« Reply #130 on: January 15, 2014, 12:40:46 AM »

Just looked at this thread. It is rather unseemly. It would be great if certain users didn't broadcast their weird sexual proclivities every fourth post. Thanks.

Did someone die recently and make you an arbiter of conduct on this forum before their untimely demise?

Should this post of yours be seen as condoning the language and behavior on this thread which have been found objectionable by some who have voiced their objection? I might add that there are likely others who also feel things have gone too far.

No, it should not be seen that way.

Then what were you trying to say?
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« Reply #131 on: January 15, 2014, 12:51:25 AM »

I'm probably sociopathic, but none of this romanticized misery about bathtubs and suffering together really appeases me at all. Quite frankly, I don't see what is so joyous about a "loving relationship" or whatever it is that so many people desire. My ideal life would be being a single man forever with no kids or family, only coming out of my solitude every once in a while to satisfy my carnal desires. I don't care about the emotion or "intimacy" or "love" stuff that people talk about.

People around me often can't imagine living life alone, whereas I can't imagine living life a social creature with a family and all that other stuff. My solitude in a way almost makes me feel godlike--like I'm the master of my own destiny or something. My only desire for human interaction would be to satisfy my carnal desires; otherwise, I think I'd enjoy solitude very much.

This will be interesting to bring up at therapy.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 12:52:34 AM by JamesR » Logged

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« Reply #132 on: January 15, 2014, 12:53:29 AM »

Just looked at this thread. It is rather unseemly. It would be great if certain users didn't broadcast their weird sexual proclivities every fourth post. Thanks.

Did someone die recently and make you an arbiter of conduct on this forum before their untimely demise?

Should this post of yours be seen as condoning the language and behavior on this thread which have been found objectionable by some who have voiced their objection? I might add that there are likely others who also feel things have gone too far.

No, it should not be seen that way.

Then what were you trying to say?

I think It's pretty self-evident.
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« Reply #133 on: January 15, 2014, 05:25:50 AM »

Aren't there rules about a single person having multiple accounts/usernames?

It was a special case. He did a public apology and all that stuff. Not that given time I treat it seriously.
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« Reply #134 on: January 15, 2014, 05:32:06 AM »

I'm probably sociopathic, but none of this romanticized misery about bathtubs and suffering together really appeases me at all. Quite frankly, I don't see what is so joyous about a "loving relationship" or whatever it is that so many people desire. My ideal life would be being a single man forever with no kids or family, only coming out of my solitude every once in a while to satisfy my carnal desires. I don't care about the emotion or "intimacy" or "love" stuff that people talk about.

People around me often can't imagine living life alone, whereas I can't imagine living life a social creature with a family and all that other stuff. My solitude in a way almost makes me feel godlike--like I'm the master of my own destiny or something. My only desire for human interaction would be to satisfy my carnal desires; otherwise, I think I'd enjoy solitude very much.

This will be interesting to bring up at therapy.

That's because you're still young enough to believe the world revolves around you. It's just a phase, it will pass.
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« Reply #135 on: January 15, 2014, 06:10:26 AM »

Aren't there rules about a single person having multiple accounts/usernames?

It was a special case. He did a public apology and all that stuff. Not that given time I treat it seriously.

I hope the admin and mods are taking his recent behavior into account as to whether their continued leniency is wise. I haven't been on this site in months. But the difference in his posting is striking to say the least.
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« Reply #136 on: January 15, 2014, 06:34:48 AM »

I see nothing in his current posting style that breaks the rules. Wrong, gross, misguided, appalling, immature, controversial, backward... sure. Not rule-breaking however. He testifies about himself with such posts.  I think this is the severest punishment one could imagine.

If there are posts you think break the rules, report them or something.
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« Reply #137 on: January 15, 2014, 06:39:21 AM »

There ya go with the "sluts" thing again.  Must you??  REALLY?!?  WHY?!?!? 

Why are people so upset every time Achronos uses that word?
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« Reply #138 on: January 15, 2014, 06:42:17 AM »

There ya go with the "sluts" thing again.  Must you??  REALLY?!?  WHY?!?!? 

Why are people so upset every time Achronos uses that word?

Are you unaware as to why many people find this word offensive?
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« Reply #139 on: January 15, 2014, 06:44:40 AM »

Why are people so upset every time Achronos uses that word?

I'm not upset. I feel sorry because it's him that epithet fits most if one starts to treat his posting seriously.

I'm probably sociopathic, but none of this romanticized misery about bathtubs and suffering together really appeases me at all. Quite frankly, I don't see what is so joyous about a "loving relationship" or whatever it is that so many people desire. My ideal life would be being a single man forever with no kids or family, only coming out of my solitude every once in a while to satisfy my carnal desires. I don't care about the emotion or "intimacy" or "love" stuff that people talk about.

People around me often can't imagine living life alone, whereas I can't imagine living life a social creature with a family and all that other stuff. My solitude in a way almost makes me feel godlike--like I'm the master of my own destiny or something. My only desire for human interaction would be to satisfy my carnal desires; otherwise, I think I'd enjoy solitude very much.

Dude, make up your mind. At least for a week straight.

Damn. I promised to myself never to open threads about relationships and women started by Achronos or JamesR.
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« Reply #140 on: January 15, 2014, 06:45:07 AM »

There ya go with the "sluts" thing again.  Must you??  REALLY?!?  WHY?!?!? 

Why are people so upset every time Achronos uses that word?

Are you unaware as to why many people find this word offensive?

Yes. Perhaps it would be offensive if the word was directly adressed at a specific person, but I don't understand why it's offensive in this particular context. That's the bane of being a non-native speaker, I suppose.

I feel sorry because it's him that epithet fits most if one starts to treat his posting seriously.

That's probably true.
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« Reply #141 on: January 15, 2014, 06:49:38 AM »

There ya go with the "sluts" thing again.  Must you??  REALLY?!?  WHY?!?!? 

Why are people so upset every time Achronos uses that word?

Are you unaware as to why many people find this word offensive?

Yes. Perhaps it would be offensive if the word was directly adressed at a specific person, but I don't understand why it's offensive in this particular context. That's the bane of being a non-native speaker, I suppose.


Shiny/Achronos used the word to refer to a whole class of women, namely the under-30s of marriageable age. Its use is just as offensive in this context as if it were used for a specific individual. Moreover, other grossly derogatory comments about these women were made.
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« Reply #142 on: January 15, 2014, 06:52:48 AM »

Ah, I see. But, to be honest, he said "sluts around that age". He didn't say that every women aged 30 was a slut and I suppose that wasn't what he meant either. I could be wrong, though.
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« Reply #143 on: January 15, 2014, 06:55:52 AM »

Shiny/Achronos used the word to refer to a whole class of women, namely the under-30s of marriageable age. Its use is just as offensive in this context as if it were used for a specific individual. Moreover, other grossly derogatory comments about these women were made.

He makes derogatory comments about women. You make derogatory comments about people who paint bad (according to your personal standards) icons. The difference is what exactly?

Why do you want him banned from stating up his mind while you (and everyone else) could be allowed it? If the rule was implemented that only nice things can be written here, your presence on the forum would be limited because of all those posts in the icon threads.
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« Reply #144 on: January 15, 2014, 06:59:20 AM »

Ah, I see. But, to be honest, he said "sluts around that age". He didn't say that every women aged 30 was a slut and I suppose that wasn't what he meant either. I could be wrong, though.

Here is what vamrat wrote:

Lucky.  Never been mine.  Chicks under 30 just seem like they don't do any housework, and don't care if it doesn't get done.  No bonus points for a man who does it because it needs doing, she'll just expend energy on messing it all up again rather than rewarding the fruits of my labour.

Shiny's reply:

See that is why sluts around that age dont have any real life skills. They dont know how to cook nor clean. Ain't no man gonna make an honest or real woman out of her.

Vamrat made a generalization. Shiny made that generalization undeniably offensive by labeling these women as sluts and dishonorable.
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« Reply #145 on: January 15, 2014, 07:01:32 AM »

Vamrat made a generalization. Shiny made that generalization undeniably offensive by labeling these women as sluts and dishonorable.

Not quite. Achronos wrote that sluts that are 30 do this and that. He did not mention (at least in the posts you quoted) all women uner 30 are sluts.
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« Reply #146 on: January 15, 2014, 07:12:14 AM »

Shiny/Achronos used the word to refer to a whole class of women, namely the under-30s of marriageable age. Its use is just as offensive in this context as if it were used for a specific individual. Moreover, other grossly derogatory comments about these women were made.

He makes derogatory comments about women. You make derogatory comments about people who paint bad (according to your personal standards) icons. The difference is what exactly?


I base my criticism of individuals who paint uncanonical icons on sound and verifiable Orthodox tradition.  I have distinguished between honest ignorance, and willful disregard of tradition in the painting of images unsuitable for veneration. I criticize their works, not their person, and I have certainly never called anyone anything remotely resembling what Achronos/Shiny has called those women.

Quote
Why do you want him banned from stating up his mind while you (and everyone else) could be allowed it? If the rule was implemented that only nice things can be written here, your presence on the forum would be limited because of all those posts in the icon threads.

Putting words in other people's mouths is bad form, Michal. Show me where I have demanded for Achronos/Shiny to be banned.

As for my posts criticizing certain people who call themselves iconographers, show me where I have used smear or bad language in any of them. I also stand by my criticism of their work, including if I were in their presence.
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« Reply #147 on: January 15, 2014, 07:27:31 AM »

I see nothing in his current posting style that breaks the rules. Wrong, gross, misguided, appalling, immature, controversial, backward... sure. Not rule-breaking however. He testifies about himself with such posts.  I think this is the severest punishment one could imagine.

If there are posts you think break the rules, report them or something.

My point isn't that he is breaking rules or needs to be banned.

My point is that if someone does something offensive in my home, apologizes, then proceeds to be rude/offensive, I get the impression that the apology wasn't sincere.

To be more crass; You don't take a dump on someone's living-room floor, apologize, then do it again.

I would hope that this behavior would be taken into consideration should he decide to escalate his behavior.
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« Reply #148 on: January 15, 2014, 07:32:49 AM »

I base my criticism of individuals who paint uncanonical icons on sound and verifiable Orthodox tradition. I have distinguished between honest ignorance, and willful disregard of tradition in the painting of images unsuitable for veneration.

Yeah, right.

Quote
I criticize their works, not their person, and I have certainly never called anyone anything remotely resembling what Achronos/Shiny has called those women.

Yeah, right.

Ah, one of my "favourite" recent additions to my schlock file. The Mother of God is showing the way to the soccer pitch of salvation, and Christ is the Holy Goalie. It's so absurd and stupid that I'd normally be laughing my socks off at it. But I can't - not when this travesty was blessed by an Orthodox priest .... WHAT POSSESSED HIM??

Apparently accusing priests of being possessed is OK.

Quote
Putting words in other people's mouths is bad form, Michal. Show me where I have demanded for Achronos/Shiny to be banned.

I meant you wanted mods to stop him posting his opinion about women.

I would hope that this behavior would be taken into consideration should he decide to escalate his behavior.

If you say you do not want him warned why his behaviour should be a concern of moderators? Either he breaks the rules or he doesn't. If he breaks, then report the posts and mods will do something about it (or won't). If they do not, there is nothing for mods to do with him and "take into consideration".
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« Reply #149 on: January 15, 2014, 07:33:58 AM »

Obviously *something* was taken into consideration since he wasn't banned for the multiple accounts in the past.
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« Reply #150 on: January 15, 2014, 07:37:20 AM »

Obviously *something* was taken into consideration since he wasn't banned for the multiple accounts in the past.

But AFAIK he does not have them now. And he was punished for that (not as severely as he could be but he was - IIRC he was moderated for the longest time possible). Do you want him to be punished for multiple accounts he had 2 years ago or so again or what?
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« Reply #151 on: January 15, 2014, 07:41:09 AM »

Forgive me, I have just caught the last few posts. As an old fart I might have all sorts of unfashionable notions but they do not include the righting off of young women and girls automatically as "sluts", or completely lacking in domestic skills. If youngsters do lack domestic skills it may be that they were never taught them. Should we then blame the youngster?

An elderly neighbour, now sadly dead, was so ill with COPD that he could do little for himself. The lady across the road did his shopping and the 15 year old daughter his cleaning. Their commitment was humbling.

As for virtue or its' lack, some may behave badly in an obvious way while others may hide behind a veneer of piety. Only God really knows what is in our hearts.
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« Reply #152 on: January 15, 2014, 07:45:23 AM »

Quote
Yeah, right.

If my criticism of their "icons" is not based on a proper Orthodox foundation, then you'll need to come up with your own cogent evidence and reasoning from Orthodox tradition as to why I am wrong in my conclusions. To date, you have not done so. All you do is clutch at straws and throw out useless one-liners.

Quote
Quote
Quote
I criticize their works, not their person, and I have certainly never called anyone anything remotely resembling what Achronos/Shiny has called those women.

Yeah, right.

You made an allegation against me, you're obliged to back it up.

Quote
Apparently accusing priests of being possessed is OK.

I'm aware that English is not your first language. "What possessed him?" means the same as "what got into him?", or "what made him do such a thing?". It does not mean that he is demon-possessed.

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« Reply #153 on: January 15, 2014, 07:49:23 AM »

Obviously *something* was taken into consideration since he wasn't banned for the multiple accounts in the past.

But AFAIK he does not have them now. And he was punished for that (not as severely as he could be but he was - IIRC he was moderated for the longest time possible). Do you want him to be punished for multiple accounts he had 2 years ago or so again or what?

Not my point, nor my goal Michal. It is altogether interesting how much caustic and rude behavior is more acceptable now that it was in the past. Shocking really. This certainly isn't the same site it was when I joined back in 2007. I can't say the change is altogether for the better.
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« Reply #154 on: January 15, 2014, 07:59:17 AM »

You made an allegation against me, you're obliged to back it up.

I did.  Another ones: accusing a priest of egotism:

Quote
But what makes the icon holy, the person who makes it or the one who uses it for fervent prayer?

The spiritual condition and intent of the painter forms a great part of the holiness or otherwise of the icon. An artist who does not submit to what the Church teaches and espouses cannot paint a worthy icon, no matter how "beautiful" the end result might be. Orthodox iconographers are not immune from the egotism of self-expression overriding church teachings, of the subjective overtaking the objective. The image known as The Ark of Salvation, discussed elsewhere on this forum, is a case in point, a propaganda piece painted by a skilled hand. Another example is Fr Stamatios Skliris, an Orthodox priest who has painted some truly execrable images he calls icons. His St Nicholas the Helmsman and St Andrew Just Prior to His Martyrdom are typical examples of this willful approach.

Not my point, nor my goal Michal.

So what do you want exactly? Can't you ignore him?

Quote
It is altogether interesting how much caustic and rude behavior is more acceptable now that it was in the past. Shocking really. This certainly isn't the same site it was when I joined back in 2007. I can't say the change is altogether for the better.

Not my observation.
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« Reply #155 on: January 15, 2014, 08:05:25 AM »

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I did.  Another ones: accusing a priest of egotism:

Then do you have a better word to describe someone who is willfully disobedient to Church traditions and canons on iconography, yet continues to promote himself as an "authority on iconography"?
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« Reply #156 on: January 15, 2014, 08:07:22 AM »

Quote
I did.  Another ones: accusing a priest of egotism:

Then do you have a better word to describe someone who is willfully disobedient to Church traditions and canons on iconography, yet continues to promote himself as an "authority on iconography"?

LBK?

Fine enough. I've proved you criticize specified persons here with not nice language (which is even worse that what you accuse Achronos of). Why won't you start to care about your posts more than about his then? Why won't you suggest you should be stopped from doing so?
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« Reply #157 on: January 15, 2014, 08:07:36 AM »

Quinault are you going to let me clarify or bring up this dead horse of multiple accounts?

I appreciate Michal responding, and thanks.

LBK is wrong. I'll reply more in depth later.
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« Reply #158 on: January 15, 2014, 08:13:10 AM »

Quote
I did.  Another ones: accusing a priest of egotism:

Then do you have a better word to describe someone who is willfully disobedient to Church traditions and canons on iconography, yet continues to promote himself as an "authority on iconography"?

LBK?

Fine enough. I've proved you criticize specified persons here with not nice language (which is even worse that what you accuse Achronos of). Why won't you start to care about your posts more than about his then? Why won't you suggest you should be stopped from doing so?

I can back up what I have said about the errant iconographers, and I would not hesitate to repeat such statements in a public lecture, a book, or in the presence of the people I have criticized.

OTOH, Achronos smears and insults an entire age group of women, calling them lazy and immoral, and without foundation. If you can't see the difference between the two, Michal ....
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« Reply #159 on: January 15, 2014, 08:15:37 AM »

Ah, I see. But, to be honest, he said "sluts around that age". He didn't say that every women aged 30 was a slut and I suppose that wasn't what he meant either. I could be wrong, though.

Exactly but I am being even more specific.

I have to charge my phone before it dies to respond further.
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« Reply #160 on: January 15, 2014, 08:18:43 AM »

OTOH, Achronos smears and insults an entire age group of women, calling them lazy and immoral, and without foundation.

"Sluts under 30" is an entire group of woman. Same as "Fr. Skliris" is a group of people too (consisting of one). He calls the former " lazy and immoral, and without foundation". You call the latter "egoistic".

Quote
If you can't see the difference between the two, Michal ....

The only one difference I see is that it's you not him. You believe that everything you do is right even despite sometimes calling it wrong when done by another one person. This is the biggest problem with you.
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« Reply #161 on: January 15, 2014, 08:24:17 AM »

Regarding the question of this threads title...

Who better to trust than someone in a successful marriage?  Let me ask you, would you take career advice from someone who has been fired multiple times or the guy who has been with the company for years and promoted?  The successful guy, right!  Same thing.
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« Reply #162 on: January 15, 2014, 08:25:49 AM »

Quote
Same as "Fr. Skliris" is a group of people too (consisting of one)

Since when is a single individual a group of people, Michal? Clutching at straws ....
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« Reply #163 on: January 15, 2014, 08:27:59 AM »

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Same as "Fr. Skliris" is a group of people too (consisting of one)

Since when is a single individual a group of people, Michal?

Since Mathematics was invented.

Quote
Clutching at straws ....

Oh, so your bad behaviour is "straws" now.
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« Reply #164 on: January 15, 2014, 08:32:52 AM »

Quote
Same as "Fr. Skliris" is a group of people too (consisting of one)

Since when is a single individual a group of people, Michal?

Since Mathematics was invented.

Quote
Clutching at straws ....

Oh, so your bad behaviour is "straws" now.

You're only embarrassing yourself further with what you have said. Not that you're likely to take advice from anyone, least of all from me.
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« Reply #165 on: January 15, 2014, 08:42:28 AM »

Quote
Same as "Fr. Skliris" is a group of people too (consisting of one)

Since when is a single individual a group of people, Michal?

Since Mathematics was invented.

Quote
Clutching at straws ....

Oh, so your bad behaviour is "straws" now.

You're only embarrassing yourself further with what you have said. Not that you're likely to take advice from anyone, least of all from me.
Singular plus nothing is plural.  Makes sense to me. Undecided
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« Reply #166 on: January 15, 2014, 08:47:15 AM »

Quote
Same as "Fr. Skliris" is a group of people too (consisting of one)

Since when is a single individual a group of people, Michal?

Since Mathematics was invented.

Quote
Clutching at straws ....

Oh, so your bad behaviour is "straws" now.

You're only embarrassing yourself further with what you have said. Not that you're likely to take advice from anyone, least of all from me.
Singular plus nothing is plural.  Makes sense to me. Undecided
1+0=10 when I was three years old.
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« Reply #167 on: January 15, 2014, 09:22:30 AM »

There ya go with the "sluts" thing again.  Must you??  REALLY?!?  WHY?!?!? 

Why are people so upset every time Achronos uses that word?

Are you unaware as to why many people find this word offensive?

Yes. Perhaps it would be offensive if the word was directly adressed at a specific person, but I don't understand why it's offensive in this particular context. That's the bane of being a non-native speaker, I suppose.

I feel sorry because it's him that epithet fits most if one starts to treat his posting seriously.

That's probably true.
We Americans take offense to everything.  It is a national past time.   
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« Reply #168 on: January 15, 2014, 09:23:48 AM »

*bleep*



« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 09:46:55 AM by Cyrillic » Logged

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« Reply #169 on: January 15, 2014, 09:39:14 AM »

*bleep*

Yet one more prove you do it just for seeking attention and not for any serious reason whatsoever.

And this time you did not keep the rules.

Can't we just ignore his trolling and wish he would leave as no one would be taking care of and feeding him?

As Quinalt noted while some (a few but there were) of his posts used to be merithoric and serious in the past for last several months none was.

edit:

I appreciate Michal responding, and thanks.

It was my pleasure.

I see nothing in his current* posting style that breaks the rules. Wrong, gross, misguided, appalling, immature, controversial, backward... sure. Not rule-breaking however. He testifies about himself with such posts.  I think this is the severest punishment one could imagine.

I'm not upset. I feel sorry because it's him that epithet fits most if one starts to treat his posting seriously.

*Not counting the last one.
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« Reply #170 on: January 15, 2014, 09:45:00 AM »

*bleep*

Yet one more prove you do it just for seeking attention and not for any serious reason whatsoever.

And this time you did not keep the rules.

Can't we just ignore his trolling and wish he would go as no one would be taking care of him?

As Quinalt noted while some (a few but there were) of his posts used to be merithoric and serious in the past for last several months none was.
Sorry, it was more of a question for LBK.

Where I come from, someone who has a lot of promiscious sex is a slut and I'll explain further why this matters when it comes to dating and relationships.

Unlike the desperate men on this board who will take any woman he can, I have certain criteria and standards that very few women can measure up to.

That the men here who get defensive and play the white knight, are only doing so to rationalize their own worth and their partner's.

If you actually read what I write here and in the other thread, I was quite clear where I stood and that it's not something you can argue with.
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« Reply #171 on: January 15, 2014, 09:50:54 AM »

Good heavens.
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« Reply #172 on: January 15, 2014, 09:55:58 AM »

Where I come from, someone who has a lot of promiscious sex is a slut and I'll explain further why this matters when it comes to dating and relationships.

Nice.

Not sure if this goes here or Family forum, but incase this gets political I'm posting it here.

Can I get some statistics/information on why cohabiting before marriage is bad. Or why it's bad in your opinion?

I know it's the Church's position to frown on such but I'd like to back that up with some data.

Anyone want to debunk (if its possible) that adage "Well we want to live together first to see how it goes" or my favorite "Well why is marriage any different from a relationship of bf and gf"

EDIT: To add a little more content to that second question. I think marriage is alot different than a relationship because you have to handle it on its great and worst, and you are one person. From my own experience, that distinguishing line between married and not married was blurred anytime I cohabited with another person. You have to take up more "husbandry" roles.

I've had girls move in with me that never worked out because honestly we were never married! There were things that I had to do which stepped right into the husband domain, something I did not want. Saying "Well we aren't even married!" to certain things ended relationships pretty quick. I was pretty sucked into that idea that couples should move in together before getting married to "try it out" but what ends up happening is neither party is really all that "obligated" to one another the way a married couple is. Or atleast I ain't.

Remember it's not premarital sex if you don't plan on getting married.

I'm having a difficult time with this one, everytime I want to get away from the temptation I fall for it with my girlfriend. It's hard a "habit" to break because I hold sex as an act of love (I guess that's another notion I need to get rid of) and I do partake of it on a regular, if not daily, basis.

Just not sure what I can do to get out of it. I know by God's grace but the connection with my girlfriend and I is so much more immmediate than it is with God.

But anyway, Jeff it doesn't matter if I have never been married. I have cohabited with women before to know what it is like. That's why I am against cohabitation, because the lines between marriage and a relationship are blurred. You gotta take up on more husband roles.

So when people would joke I'm a married man because a girl is living with me, they aren't so far off.

So how are you being called, hmm?

Quote
If you actually read what I write here and in the other thread, I was quite clear where I stood and that it's not something you can argue with.

Indeed. So why do you argue with yourself?
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« Reply #173 on: January 15, 2014, 09:56:03 AM »

There are legions of chumps out there plenty happy to be validated by the attraction of a good looking (if aged a bit) female.

Seriously chumps, find a young ugly chick who cleans and wants kids.  You'll make her day (year, life) and you might get something out of it.  You'll reap the rewards of superficiality to the tune of 50% divorce rape.
Or you can have a wife that is both attractive and all of the other great qualities in a woman.

What the women on here make the mistake of when I say "slut" is I am not degrading women or finding them lesser than men.

If they actually read instead of being appalled, they will know I elevate women higher than men. But just like men, women in my eyes have to meet certain requirements to be on the "pedastal".

A woman that is chaste and maintaining her virginity until marriage or until she meets me, but also exhibiting all the wonderful feminie qualities of a woman will evoke nothing but awe and respect from me.

Those are the women we need to bring forth to the center and give them the attention they rightfully deserve. As a society, we make an example out of the women that have no disregard for their bodies and themselves, but wrongly think this is how it should be...or atleast what the male wants.

We need to change that, and go back to when being a virgin was much much more valued.

Now people will argue, well wait a second Shiny couldn't a woman have a lot of sex then decide to have serious monogamous relationships that last a long time? Sure, but at that point it is too late. Your late teens and early twenties are really the prime time to developing real interests that last over the long term let alone developing adult skills such as cooking, have a decent taste in music, cultivating class, engaging in more fortituious intellectual pursuits, cleaning, etc.

And most of those sluts that are reformed to be in relationships now, don't have the skills above. All they can really do is certain things in the bedroom and talk insistantly.

We need to back to really valuing the best qualities of a woman because after all they can be the most beautiful thing God has ever created.
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« Reply #174 on: January 15, 2014, 09:58:00 AM »

Why can't my question to LBK stand? I am asking if having promiscious sex makes that woman a slut. It's a yes or no answer.
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« Reply #175 on: January 15, 2014, 09:59:36 AM »

Why can't my question to LBK stand? I am asking if having promiscious sex makes that woman a slut. It's a yes or no answer.

Several people read it as a gross insult instead of a question and were disgusted by it. It was very poorly phrased at best.
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« Reply #176 on: January 15, 2014, 10:00:34 AM »

Why can't my question to LBK stand? I am asking if having promiscious sex makes that woman a slut. It's a yes or no answer.

Several people read it as a gross insult instead of a question and were disgusted by it. It was very poorly phrased at best.
I think it is important that I make clear exactly what I mean by it.
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« Reply #177 on: January 15, 2014, 10:01:02 AM »

Two non-native speakers of English obviously misread Shiny's censored quote. I was going to point it out to Michal but it seem as though a non-native speaker who is a mod read it the same way. It wasn't calling LBK something, it was asking her whether a statement were true. There was a comma dropped, that's all.

Quote
Cyrrilic, Greek is a hard language.

Yes or no.

I am not calling you a hard language or Greek here. FWIW.
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« Reply #178 on: January 15, 2014, 10:01:41 AM »

Also this is for EVERYONE:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,55990.msg1062775.html#msg1062775

If you have any problems with the above and my views on women, please quote and respond.

Really the above should cause no offense or insult. I hope I have been clear and not as disgusting as few make me out to be.
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« Reply #179 on: January 15, 2014, 10:01:59 AM »

Why can't my question to LBK stand? I am asking if having promiscious sex makes that woman a slut. It's a yes or no answer.

Several people read it as a gross insult instead of a question and were disgusted by it. It was very poorly phrased at best.
I think it is important that I make clear exactly what I mean by it.

Just ask the question and phrase it in such a way that it doesn't look like an insult to LBK. Several persons read it as an insult to LBK.
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« Reply #180 on: January 15, 2014, 10:02:56 AM »

Why can't my question to LBK stand? I am asking if having promiscious sex makes that woman a slut. It's a yes or no answer.

Several people read it as a gross insult instead of a question and were disgusted by it. It was very poorly phrased at best.

It was pretty basic English. I can't remember even if the comma was dropped or not. I really don't care about the question, but thought you and Michal would be interested in this English usage.
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« Reply #181 on: January 15, 2014, 10:03:50 AM »

Or you can have a wife that is both attractive and all of the other great qualities in a woman.

What the women on here make the mistake of when I say "slut" is I am not degrading women or finding them lesser than men.

If they actually read instead of being appalled, they will know I elevate women higher than men. But just like men, women in my eyes have to meet certain requirements to be on the "pedastal".

A woman that is chaste and maintaining her virginity until marriage or until she meets me, but also exhibiting all the wonderful feminie qualities of a woman will evoke nothing but awe and respect from me.

Those are the women we need to bring forth to the center and give them the attention they rightfully deserve. As a society, we make an example out of the women that have no disregard for their bodies and themselves, but wrongly think this is how it should be...or atleast what the male wants.

We need to change that, and go back to when being a virgin was much much more valued.

Now people will argue, well wait a second Shiny couldn't a woman have a lot of sex then decide to have serious monogamous relationships that last a long time? Sure, but at that point it is too late. Your late teens and early twenties are really the prime time to developing real interests that last over the long term let alone developing adult skills such as cooking, have a decent taste in music, cultivating class, engaging in more fortituious intellectual pursuits, cleaning, etc.

And most of those sluts that are reformed to be in relationships now, don't have the skills above. All they can really do is certain things in the bedroom and talk insistantly.

We need to back to really valuing the best qualities of a woman because after all they can be the most beautiful thing God has ever created.

As you have been boasting about several times here about your premarital sex, why won't YOU start to require some standards from yourself first? Since you fit nothing you expect from others.
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« Reply #182 on: January 15, 2014, 10:04:33 AM »

Michal and me weren't the only ones who complained. We were the only ones to do so in this thread.
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« Reply #183 on: January 15, 2014, 10:05:43 AM »

Why can't my question to LBK stand? I am asking if having promiscious sex makes that woman a slut. It's a yes or no answer.

Several people read it as a gross insult instead of a question and were disgusted by it. It was very poorly phrased at best.
I think it is important that I make clear exactly what I mean by it.

Just ask the question and phrase it in such a way that it doesn't look like an insult to LBK. Several persons read it as an insult to LBK.
Read orthonorm's post.

Why would I ever think about insulting LBK?

She is cool with me and I actually do like talking to her outside of the board once and awhile.
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« Reply #184 on: January 15, 2014, 10:06:33 AM »

I'm not saying you did that, I'm only saying that it was very poorly phrased and that several people read it as an insult and took great offence with it.

What orthonorm says does make sense.
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« Reply #185 on: January 15, 2014, 10:08:27 AM »

Michal and me weren't the only ones who complained. We were the only ones to do so in this thread.

Oh, well at least you two now understand one English construction better than native speakers do evidently.
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« Reply #186 on: January 15, 2014, 10:09:05 AM »

I actually do like talking to her outside of the board once and awhile.

No idea whom should I sympathize more.
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« Reply #187 on: January 15, 2014, 10:09:58 AM »

As you have been boasting about several times here about your premarital sex, why won't YOU start to require some standards from yourself first? Since you fit nothing you expect from others.
LOL, I just read my quote: "It ain't premarital sex if you aren't getting married". Awesome.

I dunno Michal, it is difficult to respond to someone where English isn't their primary language. Something I could say may be misconstrued.

To be frank, there's a few things nearly all women go after. I will say that there is nothing stopping another woman from having ridicously high standards either.

How is it my problem if I have a mate that meets everything I am looking for, yet she doesn't have the same standards in return?
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« Reply #188 on: January 15, 2014, 10:12:12 AM »

*bleep*

Yet one more prove you do it just for seeking attention and not for any serious reason whatsoever.

And this time you did not keep the rules.

Can't we just ignore his trolling and wish he would go as no one would be taking care of him?

As Quinalt noted while some (a few but there were) of his posts used to be merithoric and serious in the past for last several months none was.
Sorry, it was more of a question for LBK.

Where I come from, someone who has a lot of promiscious sex is a slut and I'll explain further why this matters when it comes to dating and relationships.

Unlike the desperate men on this board who will take any woman he can, I have certain criteria and standards that very few women can measure up to.

That the men here who get defensive and play the white knight, are only doing so to rationalize their own worth and their partner's.

If you actually read what I write here and in the other thread, I was quite clear where I stood and that it's not something you can argue with.
Shiny, how dare you judge the men on here and why the choose the spouses that they do! I'm not quite sure you specifically you are refering to, but by the phrase "men on this board", I can only imagine it was a blanket statement directed towards every male here engaged in a serious relationship. That is extremely demeaning to the wives and relationships of the people here all because you have some strange inferiority complex about your penis. You can say I'm being defensive or a white knight and maybe I am, but I will always stick up for my wife and damn the consequences. I did not "settle", I pursued my wife for 4 years before she agreed to a date with me. I was not interested in anyone else, and I'll be damned if anyone is going to come along and generalize my relationship as a "desperate guy settling".

That is all I'm going to say, and probably for awhile because I'm guessing I will be put on mute for my language, but idc, because your statement was the most offensive, insulting piece of jackassery that I have ever read on this board.



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« Reply #189 on: January 15, 2014, 10:13:37 AM »

LOL, I just read my quote: "It ain't premarital sex if you aren't getting married". Awesome.

What about remaining 4 quotes?

Quote
I dunno Michal, it is difficult to respond to someone where English isn't their primary language. Something I could say may be misconstrued.

Does it mean your boasting about premarital sex was not true? And all of that was just your fantasies you considered to be real? Damn, I am lost again.
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« Reply #190 on: January 15, 2014, 10:15:02 AM »

If they actually read instead of being appalled, they will know I elevate women higher than men. But just like men, women in my eyes have to meet certain requirements to be on the "pedastal".

No sensible woman would ever want to be on a pedestal. It's cold, hard, lonely, and covered in bird droppings.
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« Reply #191 on: January 15, 2014, 10:17:57 AM »

Also this is for EVERYONE:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,55990.msg1062775.html#msg1062775

If you have any problems with the above and my views on women, please quote and respond.

Really the above should cause no offense or insult. I hope I have been clear and not as disgusting as few make me out to be.


I'll go on record to say I find this use very offensive.   For one thing, being up on a pedestal is a bit of a trap if the men doing the admiring of the pure woman up on the pedestal act contrary to the ideal the woman must be held to.

I grew up after the women's movement, but still had to deal with a lot of the misogyny left over from earlier days.    There's a movie by  Martin Scorsese that really shows the double standard, it's called Who's That Knocking At My Door.   He did it in film school, and to get it shown in a theater, he could only find a Porno Theater to show it so he had to put in one scene to make it Porno-Theater acceptable.  This scene is so tame by today's standards, you see much worse in a Heavy Metal music video.   But, anyway, back to this movie, the story is of a guy played by a young Harvey Keitel, wo meets a beautiful woman on a subway.  He idealizes her, and she is definately a quality girl. Smart, educated, beautiful.    While he is pursuing her, he is acting like a sophmoric idiot with the neighborhood guys who just want to get laid.   At the end of the movie, she finally reveals she is not a virgin because she had been raped.  Harvy's character erupts with such rage at her, because she could no longer be idealized.  This double standard is so degrading and insulting.

There's a recent book out called "The Girls WHo Went Away" about the girls that had to leave town to have babies out of wedlock prior to Roe V Wade.   The stories are heart breaking.  It also shows how the guys were slapped on the back and had great reputations by their fraternity buddies, etc, and how callous they were to the girls whose bodies they were using for amusement.   What would be a good name to call these type of guys?

Anyway,  I really don't like the slut word and how it is being used.
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« Reply #192 on: January 15, 2014, 10:18:46 AM »

Oh dear, time to withdraw.
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« Reply #193 on: January 15, 2014, 10:25:33 AM »

This scene is so tame by today's standards, you see much worse in a Heavy Metal music video.

Don't you mean hip hop or rap? Heavy metal doesn't show a lot of nudity, except possibly the tattoed chests of hairy wannabe-viking males.
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« Reply #194 on: January 15, 2014, 10:26:56 AM »

Quote
Why would I ever think about insulting LBK?

Achronos/Shiny, you just did. And in the vilest way anyone could towards a woman. English is my first language, and I don't buy your attempt to spin your quote onto something it's not.

Quote
She is cool with me and I actually do like talking to her outside of the board once and awhile.

I will not have words put into by mouth, least of all you.  Angry Angry Angry Angry

I am not "cool with you", I am disgusted with you, as I said earlier on this thread. And it's not the first time in recent months, either.



   
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« Reply #195 on: January 15, 2014, 10:32:16 AM »

Why can't my question to LBK stand? I am asking if having promiscious sex makes that woman a slut. It's a yes or no answer.

Several people read it as a gross insult instead of a question and were disgusted by it. It was very poorly phrased at best.

It was pretty basic English. I can't remember even if the comma was dropped or not. I really don't care about the question, but thought you and Michal would be interested in this English usage.

I just love this image!
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« Reply #196 on: January 15, 2014, 10:33:55 AM »

*bleep*

Yet one more prove you do it just for seeking attention and not for any serious reason whatsoever.

And this time you did not keep the rules.

Can't we just ignore his trolling and wish he would go as no one would be taking care of him?

As Quinalt noted while some (a few but there were) of his posts used to be merithoric and serious in the past for last several months none was.
Sorry, it was more of a question for LBK.

Where I come from, someone who has a lot of promiscious sex is a slut and I'll explain further why this matter