Author Topic: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?  (Read 2819 times)

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Offline Shiny

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Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« on: January 13, 2014, 03:51:38 PM »
I was reading a few posts today about those who have been married only once, how difficult the marriage is and they dispense advice. Problem is, you've only had one marriage, how is your advice going to apply to everyone elses?

I understand someone who has been married 3-5 times has no idea what marriage is, fine, but just one?

I hear about how people are miserable and suffer from being married. But what if I find a partner where I am not in pain? Am I doing the whole marriage thing wrong?

I'd rather have a marriage that contains joy, not one that creates a heavier cross to carry.

Maybe marriage just isn't for me. I'd rather have that option to leave the relationship if I wanted to, cause I will not divorce unless there is abuse/malice or infedility.

But anyway, I just have a hard time accepting the ancedotal marriage tips/advice from those only married once and it doesn't matter how long. Not everyones marriage is the same, I don't think there are universals either.
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Offline Jovan

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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2014, 03:59:55 PM »
In short, you want the answer to be very very qualitative through a method quantity, it does not work that way :S One marriage is enough to see what went right and wrong :P
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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2014, 04:04:56 PM »
How about don't take advice from strangers on the internet?  That works, too.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 04:08:10 PM by hecma925 »
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Offline Adela

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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2014, 04:07:53 PM »
Many of us only married once have had previous relationships that weren't marriage material.  So that counts towards insight concerning discernment towards marriage.  I learned a lot from some bad and ill-advised relationships, such as what a great feeling it was to throw my wedding gown into a dumpster to burn all bridges to a controlling man I was about to marry. If that wedding took place I'd be on my 2nd marriage instead of the first.  (Looking back I should have taken it to Goodwill or Salvation Army but that's water under the bridge )

Offline vamrat

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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2014, 04:08:24 PM »
This brings up an interesting point.  If you have two people who just work well together, are they necessarily doing things better than someone who just married a turd?  I guess they did better with the whole decision making thing than the turd-marrier, but there is also a matter of availability - sometimes you just gotta roll with what's in stock at the time.  

It seems that any marriage advice needs the caveat "your results might vary".  Any "universals" might just be a "works more often than not with relatively sane people".  I have seen happy marriages/relationships and miserable ones and often they had the same factors, it's just that one party got through them (or liked the factors, even) while others were torn apart by them.

In short, a relationship/marriage is two people chock full of neuroses and personality defects trying to coexist.  As my brother's friend told him, marry the crazy you can deal with.  (He's been married about 30 years...and somewhere between miserable and happy.)
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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2014, 04:11:22 PM »
I was only married once, but my mom has been married five times and my father four times... so I have plenty of experience evaluating marital relationships. :P
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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2014, 04:19:26 PM »
The thing is, marriage is not really rocket science.  Most people who have successful marriages pretty much agree on what makes it succeed. It is just plain hard work.  There are times when it is enjoyable and there are times when it isn't. Regardless of who you marry, you are going to have to figure out how to make sacrifices.

I don't need to try out a million shovels before figuring out how to dig a hole.  Sure you may have preferences in the shovel you pick, but a guy who has dug a 50 ft hole with one shovel is going to be better at it than a guy who owned 50 shovels but never started digging.
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Offline J Michael

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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2014, 04:26:33 PM »
The thing is, marriage is not really rocket science.  Most people who have successful marriages pretty much agree on what makes it succeed. It is just plain hard work.  There are times when it is enjoyable and there are times when it isn't. Regardless of who you marry, you are going to have to figure out how to make sacrifices.

I don't need to try out a million shovels before figuring out how to dig a hole.  Sure you may have preferences in the shovel you pick, but a guy who has dug a 50 ft hole with one shovel is going to be better at it than a guy who owned 50 shovels but never started digging.

Are you trying to imply that marriage is like digging yourself into a hole? ;D ;D
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2014, 04:30:00 PM »
The thing is, marriage is not really rocket science.  Most people who have successful marriages pretty much agree on what makes it succeed. It is just plain hard work.  There are times when it is enjoyable and there are times when it isn't. Regardless of who you marry, you are going to have to figure out how to make sacrifices.

I don't need to try out a million shovels before figuring out how to dig a hole.  Sure you may have preferences in the shovel you pick, but a guy who has dug a 50 ft hole with one shovel is going to be better at it than a guy who owned 50 shovels but never started digging.

Are you trying to imply that marriage is like digging yourself into a hole? ;D ;D
Take from it what you will.  :D
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Offline J Michael

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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2014, 04:36:13 PM »
How about don't take advice from strangers on the internet?  That works, too.

Or...just ask orthonorm... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Offline Shlomlokh

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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2014, 04:43:39 PM »
How about don't take advice from strangers on the internet?  That works, too.

Or...just ask orthonorm... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
"I ain't never been no married, and I can tell you that you're all wrong. Varsity interwebnetz and stuffs"

At least, that is what I think he would say.

I've only been married about 5 months and it is definitely hard work. Harder than I could have expected, but it's worth it. Humility, forgiveness and prayer are the tools to use. I don't think being married multiple times would be an asset in learning that. Breathing and being sober could tell you marriage takes work.

In Christ,
Andrew
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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2014, 04:46:21 PM »
How about don't take advice from strangers on the internet?  That works, too.

Or...just ask orthonorm... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
"I ain't never been no married, and I can tell you that you're all wrong. Varsity interwebnetz and stuffs"

At least, that is what I think he would say.

I've only been married about 5 months and it is definitely hard work. Harder than I could have expected, but it's worth it. Humility, forgiveness and prayer are the tools to use. I don't think being married multiple times would be an asset in learning that. Breathing and being sober could tell you marriage takes work.

In Christ,
Andrew
:laugh:
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Offline Adela

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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2014, 04:54:12 PM »

"I ain't never been no married, and I can tell you that you're all wrong. Varsity interwebnetz and stuffs"

At least, that is what I think he would say.

I've only been married about 5 months and it is definitely hard work. Harder than I could have expected, but it's worth it. Humility, forgiveness and prayer are the tools to use. I don't think being married multiple times would be an asset in learning that. Breathing and being sober could tell you marriage takes work.

In Christ,
Andrew

So true!  The first year is rough.  Mainly because your are trying to mesh two points of view and approaches you've learned from your Family of Origin.  And there's no timeout because you are, well, married!  It's a bit of a shock.  Patience, perseverance and just constant remembering what you like about the other person.   

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2014, 04:59:30 PM »
I personally did not find the first year rough. I loved the first couple years of marriage. We both worked and brought in lots of money.  We had low expenses, so we did lots of traveling, having fun and blowing money on silly things.  I think it got tougher once we had kids (they are age 5 &7) and then it got pretty rocky when I decided to convert to Orthodoxy about 3 yrs ago.  Things have regained their equalibrium and I feel like things are pretty good now.  We are 11 years in at this point.
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2014, 05:24:30 PM »
The thing is, marriage is not really rocket science.  Most people who have successful marriages pretty much agree on what makes it succeed. It is just plain hard work.  There are times when it is enjoyable and there are times when it isn't. Regardless of who you marry, you are going to have to figure out how to make sacrifices.

I don't need to try out a million shovels before figuring out how to dig a hole.  Sure you may have preferences in the shovel you pick, but a guy who has dug a 50 ft hole with one shovel is going to be better at it than a guy who owned 50 shovels but never started digging.

Are you trying to imply that marriage is like digging yourself into a hole? ;D ;D
Take from it what you will.  :D

But if your wife asks about this post, your account has been hacked.
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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2014, 05:32:53 PM »
The thing is, marriage is not really rocket science.  Most people who have successful marriages pretty much agree on what makes it succeed. It is just plain hard work.  There are times when it is enjoyable and there are times when it isn't. Regardless of who you marry, you are going to have to figure out how to make sacrifices.

I don't need to try out a million shovels before figuring out how to dig a hole.  Sure you may have preferences in the shovel you pick, but a guy who has dug a 50 ft hole with one shovel is going to be better at it than a guy who owned 50 shovels but never started digging.

Are you trying to imply that marriage is like digging yourself into a hole? ;D ;D
Take from it what you will.  :D

But if your wife asks about this post, your account has been hacked.
Yes. thank you.  I am shocked, SHOCKED at what someone has written using my account!  :o 8)
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Offline ZealousZeal

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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2014, 11:04:39 PM »
I think there's a learning curve in the first year or so when you're learning how to actually like, live together. But I think it helps that you're pretty blissed out still so maybe you're just more amenable to over-looking a lot.  :D I was just thinking earlier of how what I find to be romantic has changed after 5 years of marriage and life. Not in a bad way, just different.
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Offline Quinault

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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2014, 12:30:43 AM »
Marriage is awesome. I am very, very, happily married. The relationship certainly evolves and changes over time though.

When we were first married, a surprise bouquet of flowers and a love note was the ultimate romantic gesture to me.

17 years and six children later; getting up with the kids and letting me sleep in, while doing the dishes, and folding the laundry, is the ultimate romantic gesture to me. ;)
« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 12:33:57 AM by Quinault »

Offline Agabus

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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2014, 12:40:08 AM »
I was reading a few posts today about those who have been married only once, how difficult the marriage is and they dispense advice.
I've never found it very difficult, but I don't hand out advice, either.
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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2014, 12:49:16 AM »
Marriage is awesome. I am very, very, happily married. The relationship certainly evolves and changes over time though.

When we were first married, a surprise bouquet of flowers and a love note was the ultimate romantic gesture to me.

17 years and six children later; getting up with the kids and letting me sleep in, while doing the dishes, and folding the laundry, is the ultimate romantic gesture to me. ;)


That's pretty much exactly what I was thinking of as well. :D At the beginning of our relationship, I perceived romance as the explicit, showy gestures like (as you said) bringing me flowers and the like. Now, I'm like, "He works really hard to support our family and never complains about it." Or, "He worked all day and still came home and took over the kids' chaos so I could shower." Or, "He grabbed bread before he left for work without me asking because he knew we were out." It's not that I didn't appreciate that he worked before, and it's not that I don't like getting surprise flowers now... but it's different. I just really appreciate and notice all the quiet ways that he shows us that he loves us by faithfully doing average, boring, everyday stuff so that we can have a nice life. He does it without fanfare day in and day out and never lords it over me or expects a parade in his honor. It's those kind of things that make me think I'm so lucky, I guess. I'll stop rambling, but obviously, I am a fan of my husband.  :P :-*
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2014, 01:21:26 AM »
I find that most advice, in that it comes from another person's unique experience, rarely translates to me and my unique experience. So, in this case, someone married only once is no more likely to be right or wrong in his advice for me than someone married eight times.
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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2014, 01:27:46 AM »
There's entirely too much happiness in this thread.  Where's all the spite, ennui, and jaded bitterness of those who know the truth?   
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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2014, 01:34:59 AM »
There's entirely too much happiness in this thread.  Where's all the spite, ennui, and jaded bitterness of those who know the truth?   

All the spiteful, embittered, jaded, and bored married people are too busy working on their online dating profiles to worry about an Orthodox forum. So that just leaves spiteful, embittered, jaded, and bored SINGLE people to post here, along with the happily married.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 01:35:31 AM by Shanghaiski »
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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2014, 01:39:08 AM »
There's entirely too much happiness in this thread.  Where's all the spite, ennui, and jaded bitterness of those who know the truth?   

All the spiteful, embittered, jaded, and bored married people are too busy working on their online dating profiles to worry about an Orthodox forum. So that just leaves spiteful, embittered, jaded, and bored SINGLE people to post here, along with the happily married.

Who will respond with a heartfelt "Yo mama"? 
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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2014, 04:53:45 AM »
There's entirely too much happiness in this thread.  Where's all the spite, ennui, and jaded bitterness of those who know the truth?   

Ssssshhhhh! Don't encourage them!!  :o :laugh: :laugh:
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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2014, 08:13:00 AM »
There's entirely too much happiness in this thread.  Where's all the spite, ennui, and jaded bitterness of those who know the truth?   

All the spiteful, embittered, jaded, and bored married people are too busy working on their online dating profiles to worry about an Orthodox forum. So that just leaves spiteful, embittered, jaded, and bored SINGLE people to post here, along with the happily married.

Who will respond with a heartfelt "Yo mama"? 
Yo Yo Ma will respond.
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Offline J Michael

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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2014, 10:05:13 AM »
There's entirely too much happiness in this thread.  Where's all the spite, ennui, and jaded bitterness of those who know the truth?   

All the spiteful, embittered, jaded, and bored married people are too busy working on their online dating profiles to worry about an Orthodox forum. So that just leaves spiteful, embittered, jaded, and bored SINGLE people to post here, along with the happily married.

Who will respond with a heartfelt "Yo mama"? 
Yo Yo Ma will respond.


And quite beautifully, too!! 
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Offline katherineofdixie

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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2014, 10:34:21 AM »
I hear about how people are miserable and suffer from being married. But what if I find a partner where I am not in pain?

The crazy and difficult thing about marriage is, IMHO of course, that these states of being/feeling coexist in the same marriage.
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Offline katherineofdixie

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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2014, 10:41:46 AM »
Marriage is awesome. I am very, very, happily married. The relationship certainly evolves and changes over time though.

When we were first married, a surprise bouquet of flowers and a love note was the ultimate romantic gesture to me.

17 years and six children later; getting up with the kids and letting me sleep in, while doing the dishes, and folding the laundry, is the ultimate romantic gesture to me. ;)


That's pretty much exactly what I was thinking of as well. :D At the beginning of our relationship, I perceived romance as the explicit, showy gestures like (as you said) bringing me flowers and the like. Now, I'm like, "He works really hard to support our family and never complains about it." Or, "He worked all day and still came home and took over the kids' chaos so I could shower." Or, "He grabbed bread before he left for work without me asking because he knew we were out." It's not that I didn't appreciate that he worked before, and it's not that I don't like getting surprise flowers now... but it's different. I just really appreciate and notice all the quiet ways that he shows us that he loves us by faithfully doing average, boring, everyday stuff so that we can have a nice life. He does it without fanfare day in and day out and never lords it over me or expects a parade in his honor. It's those kind of things that make me think I'm so lucky, I guess. I'll stop rambling, but obviously, I am a fan of my husband.  :P :-*

Absolutely!
I'd rather have a man who disposes of a (very) dead rat behind the washer, and cleans everything up without even telling me about it. Even though he has practically a phobia about rats, like my husband did.
What a romantic guy!
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Offline Shiny

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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2014, 11:08:00 AM »
I don't know if I necessarily agree. I love to buy the girls in my life things, flowers, chocolates, purses, makeup, perfume, etc. Even just out of spotaneity.

That's not to say I'm buying stuff everyday, but a few times women really do appreciate it, they feel loved.

Women could use a lot more love, and I've noticed that for the majority of marriages much of the water runs dry.

That's great your husband can take out the trash or cleanup. But he should do more. To me, there needs to be a level of initimacy between both. I think this is also crucial that your children are aware of this to, otherwise they will have distorted views on what a marriage is.
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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #30 on: January 14, 2014, 11:08:26 AM »
Why does Orthodoxy have such a fatalistic view of marriage? "You have DIE. IT's MARTYRDOM!!!!" "It's going to be sooo hard all the time and your kids will ascetically suck the life out of you and you will attain holy dispassion."

Many present it this way, but what about the romance and love? I love my wife and kids and they make me happy. I know that not everyone presents it this way, but sometimes it gets old. It's OK to be happy in your marriage.

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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2014, 11:11:19 AM »
Why does Orthodoxy have such a fatalistic view of marriage? "You have DIE. IT's MARTYRDOM!!!!" "It's going to be sooo hard all the time and your kids will ascetically suck the life out of you and you will attain holy dispassion."

Many present it this way, but what about the romance and love? I love my wife and kids and they make me happy. I know that not everyone presents it this way, but sometimes it gets old. It's OK to be happy in your marriage.
As much as I agree with all of this, and I really do, I also like that the Church takes marriage as seriously as it does.

Granted the above is pretty scary stuff, and both people surely need to know what they are getting themselves into, but it should be presented in a different way. This whole "your life is over" upon being married is a real turn off.

But married couples I have seen at the parishes you can tell have a lot of joy. However I know of a priest's wife that wasn't so happy, but that's a different matter...
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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2014, 11:52:44 AM »
Why does Orthodoxy have such a fatalistic view of marriage? "You have DIE. IT's MARTYRDOM!!!!" "It's going to be sooo hard all the time and your kids will ascetically suck the life out of you and you will attain holy dispassion."

Many present it this way, but what about the romance and love? I love my wife and kids and they make me happy. I know that not everyone presents it this way, but sometimes it gets old. It's OK to be happy in your marriage.
As much as I agree with all of this, and I really do, I also like that the Church takes marriage as seriously as it does.

Granted the above is pretty scary stuff, and both people surely need to know what they are getting themselves into, but it should be presented in a different way. This whole "your life is over" upon being married is a real turn off.

But married couples I have seen at the parishes you can tell have a lot of joy. However I know of a priest's wife that wasn't so happy, but that's a different matter...

Well, in a sense, when you get married YOUR life IS over--because it's no longer just about YOU and what you want and need and think is best, etc.  While of course you still maintain your individuality, you are now part of we/us and what you do and do not do must take that into consideration.  That is what, amongst other things, can be so very difficult and painful at times--surrendering YOUR will and wants, and fulfilling the will and wants and needs of your spouse and children should you be blessed with them.  (I'm sure someone can put that all into somewhat more elegant terms, or more comprehensively  :) .)

EDIT:  In your other thread here, Shiny, Fabio Leite has "coincidentally" posted this: "The world teaches "follow your heart".

God teaches:
He that trusts in his own heart is a fool: but he that walks wisely, he shall be delivered."

Proverbs 28:26
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,56000.msg1061969.html#msg1061969

I just thought that that was apropos  ;).
« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 11:58:37 AM by J Michael »
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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2014, 11:59:37 AM »

« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 12:00:00 PM by ialmisry »
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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2014, 12:08:48 PM »
I don't know if I necessarily agree. I love to buy the girls in my life things, flowers, chocolates, purses, makeup, perfume, etc. Even just out of spotaneity.

That's not to say I'm buying stuff everyday, but a few times women really do appreciate it, they feel loved.

Women could use a lot more love, and I've noticed that for the majority of marriages much of the water runs dry.

That's great your husband can take out the trash or cleanup. But he should do more. To me, there needs to be a level of initimacy between both. I think this is also crucial that your children are aware of this to, otherwise they will have distorted views on what a marriage is.

I feel way more loved and cherished by the ordinary, every-day stuff my husband takes care of than I do by the extras he bestows on me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-flowers or anti-candlelight dinners and anti-perfume, but if that's the metric you're* using to determine love, you're going to spend a lot of your life dissatisfied. Going to work to provide for us, taking the trash out so I don't have to, picking up milk on the way home... these things speak way louder to me because it's not exciting, totally average, and sacrificial. You get someone flowers because you generally want to do that, and you want their thrilled reaction because it makes you feel good. It's out of the ordinary. Again, it's nice to be the recipient of that kind of fun gesture. That is not what inspires deep wells of love in my heart though. I see him doing things he probably would rather not be doing for the ultimate good of our family and I think, "What a good man." I agree that kids should see spouses doing nice things for each other, but if my kids grow up thinking that this stereotypical romance = love, then I think that is a distorted view on what a marriage is. I would much rather have them grow up realizing that those things are awesome and fun and special occasions, but that love is better shown through actions, many of which seem mundane and unremarkable.

*All you's general
« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 12:10:47 PM by ZealousZeal »
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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2014, 12:13:24 PM »
It is the same way in my house.  My wife becomes irrisistably attracted to me when I clean the bathroom.  :laugh:

She could care less about flowers.  Our cats eat them and then vomits when flowers are in the house, so that kind of reduces the romance aspect.
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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #36 on: January 14, 2014, 12:15:14 PM »
and anti-perfume

A man that uses perfume is no man.
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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #37 on: January 14, 2014, 12:15:49 PM »
I don't know if I necessarily agree. I love to buy the girls in my life things, flowers, chocolates, purses, makeup, perfume, etc. Even just out of spotaneity.

That's not to say I'm buying stuff everyday, but a few times women really do appreciate it, they feel loved.

Women could use a lot more love, and I've noticed that for the majority of marriages much of the water runs dry.

That's great your husband can take out the trash or cleanup. But he should do more. To me, there needs to be a level of initimacy between both. I think this is also crucial that your children are aware of this to, otherwise they will have distorted views on what a marriage is.

I feel way more loved and cherished by the ordinary, every-day stuff my husband takes care of than I do by the extras he bestows on me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-flowers or anti-candlelight dinners and anti-perfume, but if that's the metric you're* using to determine love, you're going to spend a lot of your life dissatisfied. Going to work to provide for us, taking the trash out so I don't have to, picking up milk on the way home... these things speak way louder to me because it's not exciting, totally average, and sacrificial. You get someone flowers because you generally want to do that, and you want their thrilled reaction because it makes you feel good. It's out of the ordinary. Again, it's nice to be the recipient of that kind of fun gesture. That is not what inspires deep wells of love in my heart though. I see him doing things he probably would rather not be doing for the ultimate good of our family and I think, "What a good man." I agree that kids should see spouses doing nice things for each other, but if my kids grow up thinking that this stereotypical romance = love, then I think that is a distorted view on what a marriage is. I would much rather have them grow up realizing that those things are awesome and fun and special occasions, but that love is better shown through actions, many of which seem mundane and unremarkable.

*All you's general

Amen! Preach it, sister!

(Anyway, I'm probably atypical since I'd rather have books or cool electronics than flowers, candy and perfume.)
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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #38 on: January 14, 2014, 12:16:38 PM »
Why does Orthodoxy have such a fatalistic view of marriage? "You have DIE. IT's MARTYRDOM!!!!" "It's going to be sooo hard all the time and your kids will ascetically suck the life out of you and you will attain holy dispassion."

Many present it this way, but what about the romance and love? I love my wife and kids and they make me happy. I know that not everyone presents it this way, but sometimes it gets old. It's OK to be happy in your marriage.
I think it is ascetical, but the joy of marriage is indescribable, to me at least. If I had to choose marriage to my wife or something else, I'd pick my wife. I don't know about children yet. We've got one on the way and I'm eager to hold the baby and be a dad. I'm sure it will be tough, but I think it will be worthwhile as you stated.

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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #39 on: January 14, 2014, 12:17:21 PM »
Quote from: Mor Ephrem
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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2014, 12:17:34 PM »
Nothing wrong in spending money on your lifemate. It had better be spent on the right things, though, and that's where knowing what makes the other one tick comes in handy. My husband knows that, for the price of a bottle of Chanel No.5, he can get a maid to come in and do my housework so I can have a carefree day in town, and have leftover pocket money to spend there. The choice wouldn't be hard at all. ;)
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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2014, 12:19:07 PM »
It is the same way in my house.  My wife becomes irrisistably attracted to me when I clean the bathroom.  :laugh:

She could care less about flowers.  Our cats eat them and then vomits when flowers are in the house, so that kind of reduces the romance aspect.
When you buy flowers, and the cat eats them, and then vomits, does she become irresistibly attracted to you when you put on your VomitMan cape and tights and clean it up?
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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2014, 12:21:37 PM »
It is the same way in my house.  My wife becomes irrisistably attracted to me when I clean the bathroom.  :laugh:

She could care less about flowers.  Our cats eat them and then vomits when flowers are in the house, so that kind of reduces the romance aspect.
When you buy flowers, and the cat eats them, and then vomits, does she become irresistibly attracted to you when you put on your VomitMan cape and tights and clean it up?
No.  That is usually when she is yelling about why I was so stupid as to bring flowers back in the house when I know full well that the cat will eat them.  ;D
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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2014, 12:22:05 PM »
It is the same way in my house.  My wife becomes irrisistably attracted to me when I clean the bathroom.  :laugh:

She could care less about flowers.  Our cats eat them and then vomits when flowers are in the house, so that kind of reduces the romance aspect.
When you buy flowers, and the cat eats them, and then vomits, does she become irresistibly attracted to you when you put on your VomitMan cape and tights and clean it up?

I'm sure of it, but only if he wear underwear on the outside of his tights.
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Re: Can I even trust the experience of people only married once?
« Reply #44 on: January 14, 2014, 12:22:52 PM »
It is the same way in my house.  My wife becomes irrisistably attracted to me when I clean the bathroom.  :laugh:

She could care less about flowers.  Our cats eat them and then vomits when flowers are in the house, so that kind of reduces the romance aspect.
When you buy flowers, and the cat eats them, and then vomits, does she become irresistibly attracted to you when you put on your VomitMan cape and tights and clean it up?

Brilliant. A cycle of win for you, Trisagion.
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