Author Topic: Headscarves - Revisiting an Old Topic  (Read 14599 times)

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Offline Silouan

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Re: Headscarves - Revisiting an Old Topic
« Reply #90 on: July 05, 2005, 11:09:00 AM »
Not to pick on Greeks in particular, but what I said of any Orthodox nation is true - without Orthodoxy they would be nothing special.  Since Greeks don't find their own history offensive, I don't see how showing their pre Orthodoxy days is offensive.  Ethnically I am a Slav and I am not afraid to admit that without Orthodoxy we would be pagans as well. 

Offline sin_vladimirov

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Re: Headscarves - Revisiting an Old Topic
« Reply #91 on: July 05, 2005, 11:28:05 AM »
I don't know many things. One thing that I know is that as the prayer says O' Lord it is better to not to live than live without You.

Orthodox Nations without Orthodoxy aren't nations. Just look are what Serbs did. Suddenly we became "Yugoslav" and pissed up everthing that we as Serbs gained. I am disgusted by atheist Serbs, as much as I am disgusted by Muslim Serbs (Bosniaks) and sectarian Serbs (Baptists and other heretics in Serbia). Utterly disgusted. Without those three fingers on our head and our chest we have no head nor chest.

THESE THREE FINGERS!
« Last Edit: July 05, 2005, 11:32:25 AM by sin_vladimirov »
Lord have mercy.

Offline Elisha

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Re: Headscarves - Revisiting an Old Topic
« Reply #92 on: July 05, 2005, 11:45:28 AM »
At the GOC parish I attend sometimes, headscarves are encouraged but not required (except when going to communion) while pants are forbidden (there are wrapparound skirts for anyone showing up not in the know); the sign on the door says though that men are not allowed to dress immodestly either.

Anastasios

But what's the fascination with skirts?  What's wrong with wearing a pants suit?  My mom (one of 3 - long story), hardly ever wears dresses, but wears dress pants all the time.  How is this "less conservative" than someone wearing a knee length skirt that may be long enough, but still shows a little leg?  It's like certain traditionalists refuse to accept ANY modern dress styles (clothing) at all! 

Offline Keble

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Re: Headscarves - Revisiting an Old Topic
« Reply #93 on: July 05, 2005, 01:21:01 PM »
[T]he sign on the door says though that men are not allowed to dress immodestly either.

The problem is that in practice men don't want to dress "immodestly"-- they want to dress like slobs. Or to approach it from another direction: there isn't any immodest formal wear for men, but for women it ranges all over the map.

Offline observer

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Re: Headscarves - Revisiting an Old Topic
« Reply #94 on: July 05, 2005, 04:51:46 PM »
I have always understood that you dress not to be noticed in Church
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Offline Anna

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Re: Headscarves - Revisiting an Old Topic
« Reply #95 on: July 05, 2005, 07:26:45 PM »
So if you cover, do you do so when you pray at home, as well?

Since 1 Corinthians 11:5 says, "But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying, disgraces her head..." (NASB); and since verse 10 (NASB) says "Therefore the woman ought to have a symbol fo authority on her head, because of the angels," is it the view of Orthodox women who do cover their heads that they should also do so when praying privately?

Offline Elisha

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Re: Headscarves - Revisiting an Old Topic
« Reply #96 on: July 05, 2005, 07:41:59 PM »
I have always understood that you dress not to be noticed in Church

...which is a reason why I wonder about so many (especially older types) wearing these attention getting hats - they're much more distracting than a veil/scarf.

Offline Nigula Qian Zishi

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Re: Headscarves - Revisiting an Old Topic
« Reply #97 on: July 05, 2005, 08:36:58 PM »
So if you cover, do you do so when you pray at home, as well?

Since 1 Corinthians 11:5 says, "But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying, disgraces her head..." (NASB); and since verse 10 (NASB) says "Therefore the woman ought to have a symbol fo authority on her head, because of the angels," is it the view of Orthodox women who do cover their heads that they should also do so when praying privately?

Traditionally women wear a head covering whenever they pray, whether it be in church or at home.
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Offline GiC

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Re: Headscarves - Revisiting an Old Topic
« Reply #98 on: July 06, 2005, 02:25:38 AM »
This discussion brings to mind the 12th Canon of the Synod of Gangra which, if not applicable to the letter, is certainly applicable in principle:

'If any one, under pretence of asceticism, should wear a periboloeum [a rugged overcoat work by ascetics] and, as if this gave him righteousness, shall despise those who with piety wear the berus [a robe which constituted the common dress of the day] and use other common and customary dress, let him be anathema.'
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Offline Anna

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Re: Headscarves - Revisiting an Old Topic
« Reply #99 on: July 06, 2005, 10:08:02 AM »
[quote author=Νικολάος Διάκονος link=topic=5594.msg85991#msg85991 date=1120610218]
Traditionally women wear a head covering whenever they pray, whether it be in church or at home.
[/quote]

So then if a woman were to attempt to pray without ceasing (as instructed by St. Paul), she would basically have to keep her head covered at all times?
« Last Edit: July 06, 2005, 10:10:54 AM by Anna »

Offline jlerms

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Re: Headscarves - Revisiting an Old Topic
« Reply #100 on: July 06, 2005, 10:21:18 AM »
I thought that women should cover their heads in church for modesty reasons...so as not to be noticed.  Therefore when the woman is at home praying behind closed doors she can have her head uncovered.
I could be wrong though.     Juliana

Offline Nigula Qian Zishi

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Re: Headscarves - Revisiting an Old Topic
« Reply #101 on: July 06, 2005, 10:59:07 AM »
So then if a woman were to attempt to pray without ceasing (as instructed by St. Paul), she would basically have to keep her head covered at all times?

Right. Many traditional babas and yayas do this since it has been a tradition for ages, and in traditional churches one may find many (but not all) younger women that do the same.
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Offline Elisha

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Re: Headscarves - Revisiting an Old Topic
« Reply #102 on: July 06, 2005, 11:14:12 AM »
So then if a woman were to attempt to pray without ceasing (as instructed by St. Paul), she would basically have to keep her head covered at all times?

Remember  also, that those (women in this case) that best live up to that high standard are usually, ahem, in a monastery (i.e. nuns).

Offline suzannes

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Re: Headscarves - Revisiting an Old Topic
« Reply #103 on: July 06, 2005, 09:53:27 PM »
Oh, as to pants-not encouraged at my parish.  Which is fine with me.  What confuses me, are all the websites that say things like "my priest says no bright colors, no pants ever."  Or the stranger stuff, "Orthodox women should not cut their hair, no jewelry except a cross and a wedding ring, no Orthodox Christian should EVER be seen in shorts."  That sort of stuff.  It's not ROCOR, at least as I've experienced it.  Modesty seems to be "indefinable" these days.  I'd hate to think on a hot summer day at a picnic, I look evil in a loose t-shirt and knee-length shorts!
Now, on the ooooooother hand...Recently, sadly, a young man from my area was killed in Irag.  The local paper showed a photo of his flag-covered coffin.  Obviously, the photo should be respectful, both to the man who died as well as his family.  However, the coffin was not in focus, BUT a woman in a black, strapless dress was totally in focus.  I mean, this poor girl didn't know any better than to wear a strapless dress to a funeral!  I think it's this  the sort of thing that fuels all the Orthodoxy/modesty debates online. 
I certainly support modest dress in church, it's the idea that you can't be a "good" Orthodox Christian without wearing an ankle-length skirt 24/7/.  On the head cover question: when I was at our priest's house, we faced the icons to pray, but most of the women were not wearing hats/scarves.  Matushka took her's off after the prayer was over.