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Asteriktos
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« on: January 03, 2014, 11:12:02 PM »

While in a relationship with a significant other, what would make you think it'll work out long term, and what would make you think it wouldn't work out long term?
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« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2014, 11:37:46 PM »

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Wink
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« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2014, 10:11:34 AM »

While in a relationship with a significant other, what would make you think it'll work out long term
Love

Quote
and what would make you think it wouldn't work out long term?
Hate
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« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2014, 10:14:48 AM »

While in a relationship with a significant other, what would make you think it'll work out long term, and what would make you think it wouldn't work out long term?

I suppose the very fact that you're in a relationship means that you'll think it will work out in the long term. If you wouldn't, why bother with it?
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« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2014, 10:29:09 AM »

While in a relationship with a significant other, what would make you think it'll work out long term
Love

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and what would make you think it wouldn't work out long term?
Hate

What are those?
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« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2014, 10:33:54 AM »

While in a relationship with a significant other, what would make you think it'll work out long term
Love

Quote
and what would make you think it wouldn't work out long term?
Hate

What are those?
Love: the willingness to give, to sacrifice, one's life (time, energy, actions)  for the beloved.

Hate: the inability to love
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« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2014, 10:34:13 AM »

While in a relationship with a significant other, what would make you think it'll work out long term, and what would make you think it wouldn't work out long term?

I suppose the very fact that you're in a relationship means that you'll think it will work out in the long term.

For most people I've met, sex, financial stability, companionship, entertainment, etc. are reason enough to get into a relationship with someone, and even stay in that relationship even if there is doubt as to it working out long term. Whether those things are good enough reasons to stay with someone for decades is another matter; It seems to me like they aren't, for the most part, but maybe they are? I guess that's what I'm asking about...

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« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2014, 10:35:42 AM »

While in a relationship with a significant other, what would make you think it'll work out long term, and what would make you think it wouldn't work out long term?

It will work out long term only if both sides are willing to put in the necessary work and commitment. If only one is willing to do that, the relationship will fail.
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« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2014, 01:07:33 PM »

I would say commitmet in the souls of him/her. Even in your faith towards God the relationship can sometimes seem dead. Still we commit ourselves to our Lord because we know that he stays true to his word and promises.

Long term - commitment in every way towards your partner.

Short term - more commitment to something else than your partner. Often towards a wrong concept of love.
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« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2014, 03:25:41 PM »

I would say commitmet in the souls of him/her. Even in your faith towards God the relationship can sometimes seem dead. Still we commit ourselves to our Lord because we know that he stays true to his word and promises.

Long term - commitment in every way towards your partner.

Short term - more commitment to something else than your partner. Often towards a wrong concept of love.

+1

Every marriage goes through stuff - it's the one's that are committed that decide to work through it instead of escape from it.

Kindness is important.  Giving the benefit of the doubt and the ability to trust for the best motives instead of accusing for the worst is also very important. 
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« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2014, 03:38:52 PM »

Similar kind of lifestyle, complete trust, being able to talk about everything and sex. Love is overrated. Kiss
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« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2014, 06:38:56 PM »

I don't know now but a Saint or Priest once said that a question that a couple always should live by is: Who can humble oneself more before the other?

I think it is a good advice Smiley

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« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2014, 09:22:43 PM »

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what would make you think it'll work out long term,
Unselfishness.

Quote
what would make you think it wouldn't work out long term?
 

Selfishness.

That's about it , really.
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« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2014, 09:31:37 PM »

People are speaking of love, unselfishness, etc. Here's the problem I'm having here: shouldn't these be universal? Shouldn't these be things you seek to have in every relationship?

Are you saying that we are selfish, or unloving, or whatever, for a while, and then suddenly we realize we are finally unselfish or loving, and that's how we know this is the one? But that seems like a rather unsatisfying to go through life, doesn't it? But perhaps this is human nature, fallen or otherwise?

Or, on the other hand, are you saying that we should always try to be unselfish, loving, etc.? But if that's the case, how does that help in determining whether someone we are with is "the one" and who we should intend to spend our lives with? How is the unselfishness or love we have in the significant-other/dating/etc. relationship currently in differ from the unselfishness, loving (sacrificial, etc.) way we relate to others?
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« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2014, 09:36:59 PM »

Tenacity.
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« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2014, 09:43:24 PM »

People are speaking of love, unselfishness, etc. Here's the problem I'm having here: shouldn't these be universal? Shouldn't these be things you seek to have in every relationship?

Are you saying that we are selfish, or unloving, or whatever, for a while, and then suddenly we realize we are finally unselfish or loving, and that's how we know this is the one? But that seems like a rather unsatisfying to go through life, doesn't it? But perhaps this is human nature, fallen or otherwise?

Or, on the other hand, are you saying that we should always try to be unselfish, loving, etc.? But if that's the case, how does that help in determining whether someone we are with is "the one" and who we should intend to spend our lives with? How is the unselfishness or love we have in the significant-other/dating/etc. relationship currently in differ from the unselfishness, loving (sacrificial, etc.) way we relate to others?
I might act unselfishly toward lots of people (theoretically), but that doesn't mean I would want to live, sleep, have children, etc., with them. If you're asking how does one know -- in the very earliest stages of a relationship -- if someone is 'the one', then I would have to say that if someone is 'the one', then you *might* know it the first time you see the person in person. It might be a flash of recognition, of 'coming home', so to speak. But that 'flash' is just the beginning; the rest of journey would (probably) require transcending one's 'normal' selfish tendencies that would inevitably re-assert themselves eventually.
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« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2014, 10:13:35 PM »

Conversation and comfort around each other; no need to put on a false facade and just a natural spark between us.

Clingy, thinks she's a queen, behaves like my mother, wants a huge amount of children.
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« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2014, 10:14:28 PM »

Conversation and comfort around each other; no need to put on a false facade and just a natural spark between us.

Clingy, thinks she's a queen, behaves like my mother, wants a huge amount of children.
At some point, the first one turns into the second one.
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« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2014, 10:58:18 PM »

Conversation and comfort around each other; no need to put on a false facade and just a natural spark between us.

Clingy, thinks she's a queen, behaves like my mother, wants a huge amount of children.
At some point, the first one turns into the second one.

You beat me to it, sir! 
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« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2014, 08:11:48 PM »

Conversation and comfort around each other; no need to put on a false facade and just a natural spark between us.

Clingy, thinks she's a queen, behaves like my mother, wants a huge amount of children.
At some point, the first one turns into the second one.

Hush, you.
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« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2014, 08:36:03 PM »

What the dickens is a "significant other"? This has to be the most ludicrous 'label' or euphemism I've come across in while.
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« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2014, 08:55:15 PM »

What the dickens is a "significant other"? This has to be the most ludicrous 'label' or euphemism I've come across in while.

It's a gender neutral term. I assume Asteriktos used it so his question could be directed to both men and women, instead of asking, "When in a relationship with a girl," or "man".
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« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2014, 09:08:28 PM »

What the dickens is a "significant other"? This has to be the most ludicrous 'label' or euphemism I've come across in while.

It's a gender neutral term. I assume Asteriktos used it so his question could be directed to both men and women, instead of asking, "When in a relationship with a girl," or "man".

My thanks for your explaining this clumsy and unattractive label. If people are so clever as to feel 'gender neutral' terms have a purpose, you might think they would come up with something that made the object of the term sound  special, valued or loved. My vacuum cleaner sounds more special than a 'significant other'.

Being so referred to would in itself be grounds for 'parting company', I venture.
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« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2014, 09:15:04 PM »

Significant other is a fairly common term nowadays, for better or worse. It perhaps could have been avoided in this particular thread, where the main reason for it's use is what ZZ mentioned. However, in other conversations it also helps avoid the usage of many other categories/terms: gay or straight, dating or engaged or married, male or female, etc. are all covered under the one term. I thought of using something along the lines of "an intimate relationship," but then that might be thought to require some sexual component, which I didn't intend to be necessary. Anyway... Smiley
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« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2014, 09:21:03 PM »

Significant other is a fairly common term nowadays, for better or worse. It perhaps could have been avoided in this particular thread, where the main reason for it's use is what ZZ mentioned. However, in other conversations it also helps avoid the usage of many other categories/terms: gay or straight, dating or engaged or married, male or female, etc. are all covered under the one term. I thought of using something along the lines of "an intimate relationship," but then that might be thought to require some sexual component, which I didn't intend to be necessary. Anyway... Smiley

Common, yes. Elegant, no. Gender neutral is a concept I'll skip. Life's too short to keep up with PC terminology. But thank you for your explanation and Happy New Year.
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« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2014, 09:32:19 PM »

I knew this one Asian girl named Naomi since 7th grade. Was absolutely perfect now that I think about it. On top of her physical beauty and extremely glamorous nature (she spends hours doing her makeup, very creative), she hated children just like me and didn't want any, was crazy obsessed with education, not like these traditional girls who want to trap you with children, we had a perfect spark between each other where we could literally spend hours upon hours every day just talking to each other and hanging out, laughing. Similar senses of humor, common values, perfect conversation etc. In retrospect, now that I think about it, she's one of the few females I really trust. She was quite the sophisticated character as well, being that she's an orphan from China that was adopted by a Japanese-American Protestant pastor who was actually my father's co-worker for a few years (which is how I met Naomi). We both know what it's like to experience pain.

Only problem was, her father absolutely hates me because him and my father had some workplace quarrels a few years back that haven't been resolved. I don't know if it's an Asian culture thing or something, but the girl Naomi won't date me because she doesn't want to disobey her father who disapproves of me, which, I find odd being that she's 18 already.
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« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2014, 09:48:01 PM »

On top of her physical beauty and extremely glamorous nature (she spends hours doing her makeup, very creative),

This should be a red flag for you.

these traditional girls who want to trap you with children

Stop.
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« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2014, 09:53:11 PM »

...where the main reason for it's use is...

No apostrophe, Justin. Learn up.

But happy new year to you as well, Santagranddad.   Hey, wait a second... Santa... ?  police  angel
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« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2014, 11:00:15 PM »

On top of her physical beauty and extremely glamorous nature (she spends hours doing her makeup, very creative),

This should be a red flag for you.

Why? I like a glamorous woman. She's rather cultured, always dressing formal, eating seafood, spent a semester as an exchange student in Japan.
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« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2014, 11:55:38 PM »

On top of her physical beauty and extremely glamorous nature (she spends hours doing her makeup, very creative),

This should be a red flag for you.

Why? I like a glamorous woman. She's rather cultured, always dressing formal, eating seafood, spent a semester as an exchange student in Japan.
Sounds expensive to me.  Never marry an expensive woman.  All that money is gonna come from somewhere and when you are married, that somewhere is you.
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« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2014, 11:57:49 PM »

On top of her physical beauty and extremely glamorous nature (she spends hours doing her makeup, very creative),

This should be a red flag for you.

Why? I like a glamorous woman. She's rather cultured, always dressing formal, eating seafood, spent a semester as an exchange student in Japan.
Sounds expensive to me.  Never marry an expensive woman.  All that money is gonna come from somewhere and when you are married, that somewhere is you.

To be fair, she's an only child (adopted from China) and her parents are pretty well-off and they're in their 60s. If we ever got married, we'd inherit a fortune when they died.
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« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2014, 12:30:21 AM »

On top of her physical beauty and extremely glamorous nature (she spends hours doing her makeup, very creative),

This should be a red flag for you.

Why? I like a glamorous woman. She's rather cultured, always dressing formal, eating seafood, spent a semester as an exchange student in Japan.

If it takes hours to do her makeup, then I wonder what she looks like without it. And with it, for that matter... And there's probably a good chance she's either vain or insecure, maybe both.
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« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2014, 01:55:59 AM »

I don't know if it's an Asian culture thing or something, but the girl Naomi won't date me because she doesn't want to disobey her father who disapproves of me, which, I find odd being that she's 18 already.

You've not worth being disowned for. Wink
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« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2014, 02:14:40 AM »

While in a relationship with a significant other, what would make you think it'll work out long term


That she would date me.

Quote
and what would make you think it wouldn't work out long term?

That should would date me.
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« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2014, 02:25:54 AM »

On top of her physical beauty and extremely glamorous nature (she spends hours doing her makeup, very creative),

This should be a red flag for you.

Why? I like a glamorous woman. She's rather cultured, always dressing formal, eating seafood, spent a semester as an exchange student in Japan.
Sounds expensive to me.  Never marry an expensive woman.  All that money is gonna come from somewhere and when you are married, that somewhere is you.

To be fair, she's an only child (adopted from China) and her parents are pretty well-off and they're in their 60s. If we ever got married, we'd inherit a fortune when they died.

 Another red flag.  This time though, it's for her.
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« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2014, 03:21:01 AM »

If the two truly like each other, it would probably help to determine their common goal and commit to it, instead of sort of expecting things to just work.
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« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2014, 03:25:32 AM »

On top of her physical beauty and extremely glamorous nature (she spends hours doing her makeup, very creative),

This should be a red flag for you.

Why? I like a glamorous woman. She's rather cultured, always dressing formal, eating seafood, spent a semester as an exchange student in Japan.
Sounds expensive to me.  Never marry an expensive woman.  All that money is gonna come from somewhere and when you are married, that somewhere is you.

To be fair, she's an only child (adopted from China) and her parents are pretty well-off and they're in their 60s. If we ever got married, we'd inherit a fortune when they died.

Is our James a gold digger? angel
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« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2014, 03:27:05 AM »

While in a relationship with a significant other, what would make you think it'll work out long term


That she would date me.

Quote
and what would make you think it wouldn't work out long term?

That should would date me.

I know what you mean...  Undecided
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« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2014, 03:52:23 AM »

Post edited on request.

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« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2014, 05:34:31 AM »

If the two truly like each other, it would probably help to determine their common goal and commit to it, instead of sort of expecting things to just work.

So, let me re-phrase to better address the topic. First condition is whether they truly like each other. It's the only condition that the relationship will last and even exist, even though couples do exist and last even if they don't like each other. That's insane.

Second condition would be to determine what they share in common and the goal of the relationship and commit to it together. It's fairly common that people sort of just go with the flow, but this can cause the relationship to be caught unprepared and challenged by various negative things that come up over time.
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« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2014, 06:35:23 AM »

On top of her physical beauty and extremely glamorous nature (she spends hours doing her makeup, very creative),

This should be a red flag for you.

Why? I like a glamorous woman. She's rather cultured, always dressing formal, eating seafood, spent a semester as an exchange student in Japan.

If it takes hours to do her makeup, then I wonder what she looks like without it. And with it, for that matter... And there's probably a good chance she's either vain or insecure, maybe both.
Post edited on request.

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Whenever she types her Facebook url into Google there'll be a link to this thread. It might take a few days for Google to index this thread.

On top of her physical beauty and extremely glamorous nature (she spends hours doing her makeup, very creative),

This should be a red flag for you.

+1
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« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2014, 06:40:50 AM »

While in a relationship with a significant other, what would make you think it'll work out long term


That she would date me.

Quote
and what would make you think it wouldn't work out long term?

That should would date me.

I know what you mean...  Undecided

You two make me sad  Sad
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« Reply #42 on: January 07, 2014, 06:42:45 AM »

Cyrillic: Sorry. If it makes you feel any better, my awful typo/brain lapse in that post makes me feel probably even sadder than you do.

JamesR: I know this isn't the "Share your racism" thread, and I'm not trying to be clever, but seriously...which one is she in her cover photo? Embarrassed
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« Reply #43 on: January 07, 2014, 11:03:30 AM »

Post edited on request.

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Why would you do this? 
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« Reply #44 on: January 07, 2014, 11:27:20 AM »

Post edited on request.

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Why would you do this? 
It's James.  Nuff said.
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« Reply #45 on: January 07, 2014, 11:44:32 AM »

I doubt that sharing her FB profile so that a bunch of Internet strangers can gawk at her and now know her full name is going to be appreciated. I feel bad that it was posted in response to me, but I honestly wasn't saying "I wonder" expecting an answer.
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« Reply #46 on: January 07, 2014, 11:48:16 AM »

I am wondering how soon it will be before this young lady realizes that James posted her profile and how soon after that will we find out that he no longer needs a vasectomy because he has been castrated.
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« Reply #47 on: January 07, 2014, 01:24:54 PM »

I am wondering how soon it will be before this young lady realizes that James posted her profile and how soon after that will we find out that he no longer needs a vasectomy because he has been castrated.

Hmmm, message her on Facebook and let's see what happens.
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« Reply #48 on: January 07, 2014, 02:48:15 PM »

I am wondering how soon it will be before this young lady realizes that James posted her profile and how soon after that will we find out that he no longer needs a vasectomy because he has been castrated.

That would surely solve at least another of his problems.  Cheesy
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« Reply #49 on: January 07, 2014, 04:13:44 PM »

If you're asking how does one know -- in the very earliest stages of a relationship -- if someone is 'the one', then I would have to say that if someone is 'the one', then you *might* know it the first time you see the person in person. It might be a flash of recognition, of 'coming home', so to speak. But that 'flash' is just the beginning; the rest of journey would (probably) require transcending one's 'normal' selfish tendencies that would inevitably re-assert themselves eventually.

Agreed. I blush to admit that I saw my future husband "across a crowded room" (okay, it was a college bar) and told my friends that I had met the man I was going to marry. I had nothing on which to base this, except how he looked (very attractive, I thought!) and that he listened to me seriously and attentively.
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« Reply #50 on: January 07, 2014, 04:59:59 PM »

If you're asking how does one know -- in the very earliest stages of a relationship -- if someone is 'the one', then I would have to say that if someone is 'the one', then you *might* know it the first time you see the person in person. It might be a flash of recognition, of 'coming home', so to speak. But that 'flash' is just the beginning; the rest of journey would (probably) require transcending one's 'normal' selfish tendencies that would inevitably re-assert themselves eventually.

Agreed. I blush to admit that I saw my future husband "across a crowded room" (okay, it was a college bar) and told my friends that I had met the man I was going to marry. I had nothing on which to base this, except how he looked (very attractive, I thought!) and that he listened to me seriously and attentively.

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« Reply #51 on: January 07, 2014, 05:16:52 PM »

I could write a book on how to screw relationships up, or how to run away when the going gets crappy.  As for making one work, I plan on writing that book right before I die, supposing I have enough data collected by that point.
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« Reply #52 on: January 07, 2014, 05:20:54 PM »

“Colpo di fulmine. The thunderbolt, as Italians call it. When love strikes someone like lightning, so powerful and intense it can’t be denied. It’s beautiful and messy,
cracking a chest open and spilling their soul out for the world to see. It turns a person inside out, and there’s no going back from it. Once the thunderbolt hits, your life is
irrevocably changed.”


― J.M. Darhower, Sempre


Ain't that the truth!  Wink
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« Reply #53 on: January 07, 2014, 05:21:42 PM »

I could write a book on how to screw relationships up, or how to run away when the going gets crappy.  As for making one work, I plan on writing that book right before I die, supposing I have enough data collected by that point.

One doesn't need a whole book on the first subject.  A sentence or two, or at the most  a short paragraph would be more than enough. Grin
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« Reply #54 on: January 07, 2014, 10:36:49 PM »

You two make me sad  Sad

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« Reply #55 on: January 07, 2014, 11:49:14 PM »

I think the problem in relationships is that everyone thinks they are entitled to something, when in reality, they are all disposable. Every man can be replaced with a wealthier, more desirable man and every woman can be replaced with a younger, more attractive woman. Humble thyself; you aren't worth crud. Once this is realized, then the relationship can go somewhere. When two people finally realize how desperate and disposable they really are, given that there is always someone better than them available somewhere else, then I imagine that there would be less pickiness, more humility, and a genuine desire to please each other.
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« Reply #56 on: January 08, 2014, 12:03:57 AM »

Sometimes James says outrageously stupid things.  Sometimes he says some really brilliant things, and sometimes he says things that I can't figure out which one of the two it is.
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« Reply #57 on: January 08, 2014, 12:51:46 AM »

Sometimes James says outrageously stupid things.  Sometimes he says some really brilliant things, and sometimes he says things that I can't figure out which one of the two it is.

Honestly, with this one, I'm thinking the first with an outer wrapping of the third.
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« Reply #58 on: January 08, 2014, 01:27:21 AM »

I could write a book on how to screw relationships up, or how to run away when the going gets crappy.  As for making one work, I plan on writing that book right before I die, supposing I have enough data collected by that point.

Oh, please don't wait that long. Start writing now. It would be a good alternative to Nicholas Sparks' "white people almost kissing" genre. Please, make it stop.
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« Reply #59 on: January 08, 2014, 01:30:00 AM »

While in a relationship with a significant other, what would make you think it'll work out long term
Love

Quote
and what would make you think it wouldn't work out long term?
Hate

What are those?

Well, love is an encochrine response according to one movie I've since forgotten. And hate is a corruption of love.
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« Reply #60 on: January 08, 2014, 01:32:00 AM »

While in a relationship with a significant other, what would make you think it'll work out long term
Love

Quote
and what would make you think it wouldn't work out long term?
Hate

What are those?
Love: the willingness to give, to sacrifice, one's life (time, energy, actions)  for the beloved.

Hate: the inability to love

In many cases, hate is not the inability to love, but actually has a lot to do with love itself. It could be unwillingness to give, to sacrifice, to put the other first--or it could be a reaction to the other in some way. In many ways, indifference is more "hateful."
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« Reply #61 on: January 08, 2014, 01:34:52 AM »

What the dickens is a "significant other"? This has to be the most ludicrous 'label' or euphemism I've come across in while.

Current love interest
special friend
prospective life partner

There have got to be other ludicrous terms.
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« Reply #62 on: January 08, 2014, 01:37:15 AM »

On top of her physical beauty and extremely glamorous nature (she spends hours doing her makeup, very creative),

This should be a red flag for you.

Why? I like a glamorous woman. She's rather cultured, always dressing formal, eating seafood, spent a semester as an exchange student in Japan.

If you like a glamorous woman, you may as well like paying for her upkeep, too.
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« Reply #63 on: January 08, 2014, 01:38:39 AM »

While in a relationship with a significant other, what would make you think it'll work out long term


That she would date me.

Quote
and what would make you think it wouldn't work out long term?

That should would date me.

Hahahahaha.
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« Reply #64 on: January 08, 2014, 01:39:42 AM »

If the two truly like each other, it would probably help to determine their common goal and commit to it, instead of sort of expecting things to just work.

Common goal? That sounds too logical for something that involves feelings and Byzantine intrigue.
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« Reply #65 on: January 08, 2014, 02:54:44 AM »

If a girl says verbatim she's looking for someone that would help her grow as a person and has life goals, what do you think, is it safe to assume she's an idiot on a certain level? I mean she almost speaks like a hr employee
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« Reply #66 on: January 08, 2014, 02:59:24 AM »

I think it'd be safe to assume that she uses different terminology than you.
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« Reply #67 on: January 08, 2014, 03:02:52 AM »

Well anyways fir me that terminology is a turnoff
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« Reply #68 on: January 08, 2014, 03:11:56 AM »

If the two truly like each other, it would probably help to determine their common goal and commit to it, instead of sort of expecting things to just work.

Common goal? That sounds too logical for something that involves feelings and Byzantine intrigue.

Even feelings need to be defined by logical language, just like you have to name the sin before you can repent of it. I agree, it's a bit too logical, an inferior step, but the absence of it will lead to a rather abstract experience even in the wonderful world of feelings.
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« Reply #69 on: January 08, 2014, 03:27:44 AM »

Well anyways fir me that terminology is a turnoff

Yeah, I guess it would be for me as well. Then again I use terms like "I really dig [such and such music]" or whatever else, which I'm sure would make some roll their eyes at me.  Cool
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« Reply #70 on: January 08, 2014, 04:09:53 AM »

Conversation and comfort around each other; no need to put on a false facade and just a natural spark between us.

Clingy, thinks she's a queen, behaves like my mother, wants a huge amount of children.

First part I agree with. I think we need to look at this simply, not in fancy words like we are giving a sermon. It's one of my faults. Really, simplicity and brevity are wiser than eloquence. I think the first sign of a good relationship is the conversation and comfort comes easily. You find the person agreeable to your own personality. You find their words comforting and their company joyful.

The second part I am afraid I agree with, too, but I know it's my cynical "Shakespearian" view of women speaking. I think there is truth to the this sadly, but we do not have to be cynical like I find myself being so often. Women are the way they are. I think we have to understand that each gender has its nature. I'd like to say more but brevity and simplicity is something to work on. Women today especially because of feminism tend to think they are queens and can because of the natural weakness of their feminine nature become clingy, I suppose. But if a woman is really clingy that is an excess of her nature and a fault. It is one thing for a woman to be so gentle that she relies on her man, but a truly humble woman has a real fortitude that does not require her to be clingy. A real woman can be sweet and dependent on her man but not clingy. And she can be strong without being a "queen". The golden mean....It's hard.

But to get back to speaking in simple terms without vanity: I want a woman first of all I find physically attractive and her personality so. I want as the relationship gets deeper not just to "feel" love, but for it to be the nature of our relationship. Her conversation is joy. Her company is joy and it's something better than I have had with any other woman. I think love like that cannot be explained but we have to try.
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« Reply #71 on: January 08, 2014, 04:28:02 AM »

Is this thread supposed to be what you want in a relationship, or what you think will make a relationship work? They're not the same thing. I mean, I would love to meet a lady who wants to watch Louie CK and Mike Birbiglia comedy specials with me, but I don't think that's necessarily the key to a lasting relationship... (can't hurt, though!)
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« Reply #72 on: January 08, 2014, 04:43:16 AM »

I knew this one Asian girl named Naomi since 7th grade. Was absolutely perfect now that I think about it. On top of her physical beauty and extremely glamorous nature (she spends hours doing her makeup, very creative), she hated children just like me and didn't want any, was crazy obsessed with education, not like these traditional girls who want to trap you with children, we had a perfect spark between each other where we could literally spend hours upon hours every day just talking to each other and hanging out, laughing. Similar senses of humor, common values, perfect conversation etc. In retrospect, now that I think about it, she's one of the few females I really trust. She was quite the sophisticated character as well, being that she's an orphan from China that was adopted by a Japanese-American Protestant pastor who was actually my father's co-worker for a few years (which is how I met Naomi). We both know what it's like to experience pain.

Only problem was, her father absolutely hates me because him and my father had some workplace quarrels a few years back that haven't been resolved. I don't know if it's an Asian culture thing or something, but the girl Naomi won't date me because she doesn't want to disobey her father who disapproves of me, which, I find odd being that she's 18 already.

I think JamesR and I are alike. Sorry I have to rant about this.  I do not share his dislike for children but I do have a thing for upper middle class or sophisticated girls. And I can't stand these crazy traditional girls who want all these children or who want to look like Amish. I want as many children as God gives but I had a problematic friendship that almost got serious with a traditional girl obsessed with children. She wanted like twenty or at least fourteen. I said, "Well if God gives that many, fine. You'll likely have five or six." Well she also could not understand why I liked all the girls at church who were what she considered vain. I told her I like a girl to wear some makeup at least and have care for her appearance. She just thought I was seeking a girl who was vain and not good for me. Glad that never turned into a dating relationship, let alone marriage. I just like a girl who likes to put on makeup and all that but I think brains are important.

I guess if I had to say what the ideal woman in terms of looks and personality that everyone knows it would be Emma Watson. She's smart, dresses well and has class, etc. But like JamesR I can think of a real girl I knew in high school that would make a great wife--but she's in a relationship now and we are just friends on Facebook. But I had a crush on her in high school and she knew it. She was a cheerleader and all. Beautiful, popular and everything but not at all ill-natured. My "friend" let it around I was "in love" with her. She did not try to avoid me but was even more friendly towards me. We were in different cliques and I was too shy and stupid anyway to come on to her in any way other than a friend. I don't know how to explain it but she is the best woman I have ever known other than one other perhaps. I don't think I am idealizing her. There was just something about her. She had the brains, class, and everything but without vanity, pride, etc. She was my first true love, and honesty, I love her still in a platonic way. Since it is very unlikely I will ever "have" her and because of the special admiration I have for her virtues, I love her and desire her happiness and the welfare of all those dear to her. I wish I could get to know her better so I could learn her faults. There's the sign: When you are willing to love them even for their faults and try your best to be patient to them.

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« Reply #73 on: January 08, 2014, 12:51:51 PM »

Is this thread supposed to be what you want in a relationship, or what you think will make a relationship work? They're not the same thing. I mean, I would love to meet a lady who wants to watch Louie CK and Mike Birbiglia comedy specials with me, but I don't think that's necessarily the key to a lasting relationship... (can't hurt, though!)

What will make a relationship work. Actually it is exactly the entertainment/past-time/hobby connections that I would like to have excluded from the discussion, but I figured, hey, if someone wants to defend that as a basis for a solid relationship, why stop them? But I recently mentioned to someone else something very similar to what you said about Louie CK and it not necessarily being, well, whatever, so... yeah. Smiley
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« Reply #74 on: January 08, 2014, 01:10:32 PM »

Actually it is exactly the entertainment/past-time/hobby connections that I would like to have excluded from the discussion

Then you will fail at relationships. They matter the most. Morals being second. And attractiveness mattering the mostest later on.
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« Reply #75 on: January 08, 2014, 01:13:46 PM »

Actually it is exactly the entertainment/past-time/hobby connections that I would like to have excluded from the discussion

Then you will fail at relationships. They matter the most.

The last time I tried that our interests changed over a relatively short time period, which led to the collapse of the relationship since common interests were what it had been built on.
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« Reply #76 on: January 08, 2014, 01:14:53 PM »

My wife and I have absolutely nothing in common other than our children. We have no hobbies we share, we don't like the same kind of movies, we go to two different churches, we have very different backgrounds, personalities and philosophical approaches to life. Having said that, we have been married for 10 years and I consider us to have a very strong marriage.  Neither one of us could ever imagine ending the relationship.

If someone wanted to know what the secret to our relationship is, I would just say tenacity.  Neither one of us is willing to give up on it. If we have problems, we talk about them as soon as they come up, but we don't expect the conversation to fix anything at that time.  We discuss it, then leave it for awhile so we can both think it over and consider the other person's position and whether we can find merit in it. For me, I knew from my wife's personality before we were even dating that she is a very persistent person.  She does not give up.  It can be aggravating as all heck when we are disagreeing about things or if she gets something in her mind that she wants to do, but I also know that she will go through hell and back before she would let our relationship fail. I trust her and she trusts me.

I think it is tough when you are starting a relationship to really identify objectively the traits in the other person that will work well with you. Likely you will come into it starry-eyed and emotional. It is useless trying to evaluate a relationship while you are in that stage.   It takes time to effectively evaluate someone.  I think it is very helpful to hold off for awhile before dating someone.  If you can hang out with someone as friends for a year or two before dating, you can see what that person is like outside of sexual attractivity.

Another thing is that you have to accept that people change.  Even if someone has every trait you could possibly want when you are dating, the likelyhood of them being the same person 5 or 10 years from now is nil.  My 24 year old self would probably not recognize my 34 year old self and I know my 14 yr old self would never recognize my 24 yr old self.  My wife went from wanting to be a working career woman to wanting to be a stay at home mom to wanting to find some employment that would be a hybrid of the two. At each stage, I never would have imagined that she would have wanted to do something different, she seemed so dead set on filling the role she was currently in. I went from protestant fundamentalist to protestant liberal to agnostic to orthodox. No one would have ever seen that in me 10 years ago. My wife stuck with me the whole way even if she disagrees with my conclusions.

I don't know if anyone is still reading or if this is tl/dr, but hopefully some of this is helpful to someone.
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« Reply #77 on: January 08, 2014, 01:15:32 PM »

Actually it is exactly the entertainment/past-time/hobby connections that I would like to have excluded from the discussion

Then you will fail at relationships. They matter the most. Morals being second. And attractiveness mattering the mostest later on.
No. Just no.
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« Reply #78 on: January 08, 2014, 01:26:50 PM »

Actually it is exactly the entertainment/past-time/hobby connections that I would like to have excluded from the discussion

Then you will fail at relationships. They matter the most.

The last time I tried that our interests changed over a relatively short time period, which led to the collapse of the relationship since common interests were what it had been built on.

People need space. It is absolutely imperative for each one to have at least a couple of interests that the other doesn't share.
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« Reply #79 on: January 08, 2014, 01:34:23 PM »

Actually it is exactly the entertainment/past-time/hobby connections that I would like to have excluded from the discussion

Then you will fail at relationships. They matter the most. Morals being second. And attractiveness mattering the mostest later on.
No. Just no.

Whatever dude. You are an N of 1. And really, I am not sure you have such a hot relationship or anyone here does who spends as much time here as you do when not working, unless your wife is oc.netting as well.

This stuff has been studied and it is pretty clear what drives long term relationships. Shared activities, values, attractiveness (which become more important over time not less).
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« Reply #80 on: January 08, 2014, 01:34:45 PM »

Actually it is exactly the entertainment/past-time/hobby connections that I would like to have excluded from the discussion

Then you will fail at relationships. They matter the most.

The last time I tried that our interests changed over a relatively short time period, which led to the collapse of the relationship since common interests were what it had been built on.

People need space. It is absolutely imperative for each one to have at least a couple of interests that the other doesn't share.

No it isn't.
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« Reply #81 on: January 08, 2014, 01:37:35 PM »

Oh and that noise Tri is talking about, people changing? They don't. Only people with a superficial view of others ever see much change.

We have things called personalities for a reason. They don't change outside of head trauma, psychological illness, or acute trauma.

People remain rather predictable. I know people who haven't changed since they were 6 months old. I knew they would be gay, straight, outgoing, pensive, etc.

Pay attention and you will get surprised a lot less by others. All that changes in others is our ability to lie to ourselves about who we wish they were.
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« Reply #82 on: January 08, 2014, 01:38:47 PM »

Actually it is exactly the entertainment/past-time/hobby connections that I would like to have excluded from the discussion

Then you will fail at relationships. They matter the most. Morals being second. And attractiveness mattering the mostest later on.
No. Just no.

Whatever dude. You are an N of 1. And really, I am not sure you have such a hot relationship or anyone here does who spends as much time here as you do when not working, unless your wife is oc.netting as well.

This stuff has been studied and it is pretty clear what drives long term relationships. Shared activities, values, attractiveness (which become more important over time not less).
lol, I await the posting of your "studies".  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #83 on: January 08, 2014, 01:40:09 PM »

Actually it is exactly the entertainment/past-time/hobby connections that I would like to have excluded from the discussion

Then you will fail at relationships. They matter the most. Morals being second. And attractiveness mattering the mostest later on.
No. Just no.

Whatever dude. You are an N of 1. And really, I am not sure you have such a hot relationship or anyone here does who spends as much time here as you do when not working, unless your wife is oc.netting as well.

This stuff has been studied and it is pretty clear what drives long term relationships. Shared activities, values, attractiveness (which become more important over time not less).
lol, I await the posting of your "studies".  Roll Eyes

I don't need to. Google. This is like talking about that water is wet.
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« Reply #84 on: January 08, 2014, 01:40:46 PM »

Actually it is exactly the entertainment/past-time/hobby connections that I would like to have excluded from the discussion

Then you will fail at relationships. They matter the most. Morals being second. And attractiveness mattering the mostest later on.
No. Just no.

Whatever dude. You are an N of 1. And really, I am not sure you have such a hot relationship or anyone here does who spends as much time here as you do when not working, unless your wife is oc.netting as well.

This stuff has been studied and it is pretty clear what drives long term relationships. Shared activities, values, attractiveness (which become more important over time not less).
lol, I await the posting of your "studies".  Roll Eyes

I don't need to. Google. This is like talking about that water is wet.
Just as I thought.
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« Reply #85 on: January 08, 2014, 01:47:48 PM »

Actually it is exactly the entertainment/past-time/hobby connections that I would like to have excluded from the discussion

Then you will fail at relationships. They matter the most.

The last time I tried that our interests changed over a relatively short time period, which led to the collapse of the relationship since common interests were what it had been built on.

People need space. It is absolutely imperative for each one to have at least a couple of interests that the other doesn't share.

No it isn't.

Yes it is.

This whole 'shared interests' thing is a creation of the last 4-5 decades, tops. Before then, a couple shared obligations, their time together was little more than mealtimes and bedtimes (unless they had to work together), and they wouldn't have it any other way.
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« Reply #86 on: January 08, 2014, 01:57:27 PM »

I got lost a while back, thankfully. Now "Oh, yes it is" and "Oh, no it isn't" makes it sound more like the script for a Pantomine.

Seriously, a serious point has been made. In times not that long gone, shared obligations and hard work cemented couples. The self indulgence of people today who talk endlessly of their busy lives in an age where we are warmer than ever before, exercise less than ever before and have - more often than not - more labour saving gadgets and shorter working hours than before. Shared hardships bound neighbours too.
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« Reply #87 on: January 08, 2014, 02:32:35 PM »

I don't know if anyone is still reading or if this is tl/dr, but hopefully some of this is helpful to someone.

Not tl;dr at all, thanks for sharing Smiley
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« Reply #88 on: January 08, 2014, 02:33:56 PM »

My husband and I don't have a lot in common either. Our hobbies are very different, we don't like the same kinds of movies either, etc. We do share a similar sense of humor, so that has been pretty solidifying I think. We've also gone through some pretty major life changes together, so we have common experiences that would be impossible to replicate with anyone else. If we had met each other in high school I doubt we would even have been friends, so I'm glad we didn't.  Wink
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« Reply #89 on: January 08, 2014, 05:36:25 PM »

You just have to like being around each other.  For today's Soul-Mate view of marriage.

 I don't think I'd want to share every interest and goal with my husband.  I can only take so much car stuff and auto racing and I don't quite see how he can listen to an engine and hear all sorts of things I can't hear.  I didn't quite get why there were car parts and tool boxes all over the house, including in the kitchen cabinets and under the bed and I'm doing my best to prevent more auto parts from being stockpiled.  But, I do like being able to stand back and admire him in his own element, such as when he's in his old clothes working on the cars and making things really hum.

Maybe that's the key, to find traits to admire in the other......

And, what ZealousZeal said about sharing a sense of humor.  It's no fun to be with someone who doesn't get your humor.
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« Reply #90 on: January 09, 2014, 04:28:42 AM »

James is my favorite poster in all of OCNetodoxy
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« Reply #91 on: January 09, 2014, 02:15:22 PM »

You just have to like being around each other.  For today's Soul-Mate view of marriage.

 I don't think I'd want to share every interest and goal with my husband.  I can only take so much car stuff and auto racing and I don't quite see how he can listen to an engine and hear all sorts of things I can't hear.  I didn't quite get why there were car parts and tool boxes all over the house, including in the kitchen cabinets and under the bed and I'm doing my best to prevent more auto parts from being stockpiled.  But, I do like being able to stand back and admire him in his own element, such as when he's in his old clothes working on the cars and making things really hum.

Maybe that's the key, to find traits to admire in the other......

And, what ZealousZeal said about sharing a sense of humor.  It's no fun to be with someone who doesn't get your humor.

Well then if you really get annoyed at your husband's car stuff you and I can always have an affair.  Wink Sorry. Bad humour but my dad is in to that and my mom and me cannot stand it either. I mean I do like some of the old cars, but I prefer planes since I have about 60 hours towards my private pilot. That and horses since I like horse racing. When I get back on my feet again I think I'll even bet on them again. Now horse racing and handicapping...that's a real art. And a beautiful sport. So many factors. The horse has intelligence and skill, but so does the jockey. Then there is position and weather factors and I suppose just plain luck. Car racing just ain't the same. But yeah, I think it's great not to be just alike or into the very same things. That'd be sort of boring in a relationship.

There is also an importance of having distance and privacy even when you live together. Like my friend was living with his girlfriend (he made a mistake, even as a good Christian he admits) and she had mental issues. But she was so need on affection that he could not come home from work and have five minutes to himself. She always wanted to be with him to the point of being a shadow. It really made him frustrated with her because while he liked her he said he needed some privacy in the home. I think being close and not spending any time together is important, but it's also important to give the other person distance, whether when dating or when you marry.
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« Reply #92 on: January 09, 2014, 07:05:15 PM »

I could write a book on how to screw relationships up, or how to run away when the going gets crappy.  As for making one work, I plan on writing that book right before I die, supposing I have enough data collected by that point.

Oh, please don't wait that long. Start writing now. It would be a good alternative to Nicholas Sparks' "white people almost kissing" genre. Please, make it stop.

Too late. Someone's done it already. For free.

http://www.danoah.com/2012/10/16-ways-i-blew-my-marriage.html
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« Reply #93 on: January 09, 2014, 07:11:42 PM »

Too late. Someone's done it already. For free.

http://www.danoah.com/2012/10/16-ways-i-blew-my-marriage.html

"DON’T POOP WITH THE BATHROOM DOOR OPEN."
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« Reply #94 on: January 09, 2014, 08:26:32 PM »

"DON’T POOP WITH THE BATHROOM DOOR OPEN."

Why would anyone do that?
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« Reply #95 on: January 09, 2014, 08:28:59 PM »

^I was going to do a play on the phrase "Mi casa es su casa," but thought better of it. How typically male of me though to even think it. I shame myself.
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« Reply #96 on: January 09, 2014, 08:31:26 PM »

Too late. Someone's done it already. For free.

http://www.danoah.com/2012/10/16-ways-i-blew-my-marriage.html

"DON’T POOP WITH THE BATHROOM DOOR OPEN."

A great way to turn off the German chicks, dude.
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« Reply #97 on: January 09, 2014, 08:32:07 PM »

"DON’T POOP WITH THE BATHROOM DOOR OPEN."

Why would anyone do that?

Cause they are not uptight?
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« Reply #98 on: January 09, 2014, 08:44:25 PM »

I suppose being uptight while on the toilet isn't exactly the best condition to be in...   
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« Reply #99 on: January 09, 2014, 08:50:51 PM »

I suppose being uptight while on the toilet isn't exactly the best condition to be in...   

Talk to the numerous women I know who can't break wind in mixed company. They suffer for it on the commode. I know some women who manage on average one bowel movement a week.

Bizarre.
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« Reply #100 on: January 09, 2014, 11:03:36 PM »

I suppose being uptight while on the toilet isn't exactly the best condition to be in...   

Talk to the numerous women I know who can't break wind in mixed company. They suffer for it on the commode. I know some women who manage on average one bowel movement a week.

Bizarre.

Except during their period a recent study from Harvard says when they suffer two bowel movements a week. It also seems according to the study that African American women suffer twice as many but the Southern Poverty Law Center is objecting to the study on grounds of racial prejudice. The Washington Post says President Obama has yet to comment on either his or his wife's bowel movements, though Rush Limbaugh made the statement that they are always putting out crap so it's really a constant thing.
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« Reply #101 on: January 10, 2014, 05:48:54 AM »

Toilet humour, ugh.

I used to visit a family were Mum used to sit on the wc, facing on to the front door, having left the toilet door wide open. This was a regular occurrence, ......wait for it......, the door being left open.
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« Reply #102 on: January 10, 2014, 10:47:35 AM »

Just when I thought I had seen the worst.... Shocked
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« Reply #103 on: January 10, 2014, 10:54:17 AM »

Just when I thought I had seen the worst.... Shocked

Yeah, on that observation I think I will do something else today rather than read this stuff. I used to moderate the Free-For-All boards. Glad I don't now, really glad.
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« Reply #104 on: January 10, 2014, 01:48:30 PM »

"DON’T POOP WITH THE BATHROOM DOOR OPEN."

Why would anyone do that?

Cause they are not uptight?

And here I thought it was courteous to close the door.
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« Reply #105 on: January 10, 2014, 02:15:50 PM »

Actually it is exactly the entertainment/past-time/hobby connections that I would like to have excluded from the discussion

Then you will fail at relationships. They matter the most. Morals being second. And attractiveness mattering the mostest later on.
No. Just no.

Whatever dude. You are an N of 1. And really, I am not sure you have such a hot relationship or anyone here does who spends as much time here as you do when not working, unless your wife is oc.netting as well.

This stuff has been studied and it is pretty clear what drives long term relationships. Shared activities, values, attractiveness (which become more important over time not less).
lol, I await the posting of your "studies".  Roll Eyes
Do you really need any though?

Best relationships I ever had always involved having the same interests and "hobbies". Then came what her values were, and I've already gone over this controversially here lol.

Now on attractiveness...I haven't lived long enough or had a partner last long enough (I'm thinking 5-10 years here) to where if her physical attractiveness degrades would that also negatively impact the relationship. Im sure it can, maybe sexually.

If I really love a woman, and I'm literally on fire burning with love, I can overlook it. Granted it is the physical attraction at first that grabs your attention after all.
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« Reply #106 on: January 10, 2014, 02:26:14 PM »

Best relationships I ever had always involved having the same interests and "hobbies". Then came what her values were, and I've already gone over this controversially here lol.

Now on attractiveness...I haven't lived long enough or had a partner last long enough (I'm thinking 5-10 years here) to where if her physical attractiveness degrades would that also negatively impact the relationship. Im sure it can, maybe sexually.

If I really love a woman, and I'm literally on fire burning with love, I can overlook it. Granted it is the physical attraction at first that grabs your attention after all.

Make sure you enjoy talking with her. If all goes well, a time will come when talking is all you'll be able to do together.
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« Reply #107 on: January 10, 2014, 02:28:07 PM »

Trisagion I should introduce you to my friend David and his fiancee.

Out of all the people I know, he has the best relationship I have seen by far. And it all started with the same interests and what they love to do (art and video games). It is crazy how much they like the same things and they are enormously happy because of it.

And she herself is pretty attractive for being a game nerd. They are on the same page with everything else too.

It would truly shock me if that relationship ended.
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« Reply #108 on: January 10, 2014, 02:30:43 PM »

Best relationships I ever had always involved having the same interests and "hobbies". Then came what her values were, and I've already gone over this controversially here lol.

Now on attractiveness...I haven't lived long enough or had a partner last long enough (I'm thinking 5-10 years here) to where if her physical attractiveness degrades would that also negatively impact the relationship. Im sure it can, maybe sexually.

If I really love a woman, and I'm literally on fire burning with love, I can overlook it. Granted it is the physical attraction at first that grabs your attention after all.

Make sure you enjoy talking with her. If all goes well, a time will come when talking is all you'll be able to do together.
Yes I agree. Someone who can carry a conversation outside of your normal chit chat banter is great and even better if both people can shut up and dont need to fill up the air with inanities.

That kind of silence where it ain't awkward.
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« Reply #109 on: January 10, 2014, 02:59:36 PM »

James is my favorite poster in all of OCNetodoxy
If we could fast forward 10 years, the only person I would be remotely interested in would be James. I love his honesty.

Now all I want to see is James pimpin'. Too young to stick to longterm monogamy.

Gotta get a feel of different kinds of women. Know what I'm saying?
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« Reply #110 on: January 10, 2014, 03:04:20 PM »

Trisagion I should introduce you to my friend David and his fiancee.

Out of all the people I know, he has the best relationship I have seen by far. And it all started with the same interests and what they love to do (art and video games). It is crazy how much they like the same things and they are enormously happy because of it.

And she herself is pretty attractive for being a game nerd. They are on the same page with everything else too.

It would truly shock me if that relationship ended.
I'm not saying that having similar interests are bad.  Far from it.  I would like it if my wife and I had more in common.  That being said, if your friend Dave and his fiancee have the same relationship in ten or twenty years that they do now, I would be shocked. People's interests change, their perspectives change. Hopes, dreams, ambitions all change. There needs to be something deeper that root the two of you together, and when both people are in their 70's, I seriously doubt that physical attractiveness is what held that relationship together for 50 years.
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« Reply #111 on: January 10, 2014, 03:14:27 PM »

Let me clarify, no I don't think interests should be the bedrock of any relationship, but as far as happiness is concerned it is near the top.

I've been in a relationship where we have nothing in common, and we couldn't even agree on what movie to see at a theater for example. It sucked and was frankly miserable.

You know how much joy it is to find someone who likes and does the same things you do? That atheist I was dating earlier in the year, folks around here said I should have broken it off, man we were just killing it. The fact we could share the same things and not even come up with a disagreement was wonderful.

But you think those commonalities are going to be the glue when life throws major curveballs to knock down the milk bottles? Nope, and that's where I'll agree.

The strength of the relationship through those struggles, comes down to communication, commitment and trust. Get rid of one of those and kiss it goodbye.

But see Tri this is why marriage is a crazy endeavor outside of Church atleast.

You are exactly right, what will happen in 10, 20 or 30 years? I have no idea, and neither do they. Are they going to be ready for the windfalls that can impact their relationship?

Then really nobody should get married with that kind of reasoning.
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« Reply #112 on: January 10, 2014, 03:22:56 PM »

I agree with most of what you say except for the last part. You don't need to be ready for the pitfalls, because you can't predict which pitfalls will occur. Thinking about pitfalls is reactive thinking.  Marriage requires proactive thinking.  The best you can do is both of you commit to the marriage and be willing to put all you can into it, come what may. If either person can't do that, the marriage fails.  It is just like our walk with God; it requires synergy for it to work.  God requires our participation.

The question is not, do you have a good time or do you have stuff in common or are they hawt.  The question is, do you trust that person enough to give them your heart and have faith that they will not destroy it?  Conversely, are you able to sacrifice of yourself enough so that you will put that other person before you and work for their benefit before your own?

If you cannot say yes to those two things after careful examination, you should not get married.  Do things come up?  Yes. We aren't God and we can't know the future, but we can prepare ourselves to be proactive in our marriages rather than reactive to whatever problem might come.
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« Reply #113 on: January 10, 2014, 03:33:18 PM »

Basically James if you decide to get married, make sure you have a pre-nup.

But yeah you should put everything of you, the good and bad, in it. I dunno there should be a lot fewer marriages when you really think about it atleast in America.

People don't want that cross that comes with marriage, and they don't realize it until they are deep in it.

Too caught up in the fantasy-land view of marriage.
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« Reply #114 on: January 10, 2014, 03:37:21 PM »

lol, James with a pre-nup.

Does James have a great amount of wealth that needs to be protected?  My impression was the girl was coming in with all the money.  If that's the case, you don't want a pre-nup. Get that split 50/50.  Cheesy
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« Reply #115 on: January 10, 2014, 03:43:33 PM »

Tri, really with how people talk about marriage on here and such, it sounds like the surefire way to be miserable.

Who wants all that crap you are talking about? All these sacrifices, suffering, etc.

Like I said not everyone should be married.
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« Reply #116 on: January 10, 2014, 03:45:26 PM »

Tri, really with how people talk about marriage on here and such, it sounds like the surefire way to be miserable.

Who wants all that crap you are talking about? All these sacrifices, suffering, etc.

Like I said not everyone should be married.
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« Reply #117 on: January 10, 2014, 03:51:26 PM »

Basically James if you decide to get married, make sure you have a pre-nup.

But yeah you should put everything of you, the good and bad, in it. I dunno there should be a lot fewer marriages when you really think about it atleast in America.

People don't want that cross that comes with marriage, and they don't realize it until they are deep in it.

Too caught up in the fantasy-land view of marriage.

And to think...this is supposed to be an Orthodox Christian forum.
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« Reply #118 on: January 10, 2014, 03:54:37 PM »

^ how is any of the above not "Orthodox".
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« Reply #119 on: January 10, 2014, 03:55:22 PM »

lol, James with a pre-nup.

Does James have a great amount of wealth that needs to be protected?  My impression was the girl was coming in with all the money.  If that's the case, you don't want a pre-nup. Get that split 50/50.  Cheesy
James has a heart of gold. So absolutely that needs to be on there.
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« Reply #120 on: January 10, 2014, 03:58:05 PM »

Tri, really with how people talk about marriage on here and such, it sounds like the surefire way to be miserable.

Who wants all that crap you are talking about? All these sacrifices, suffering, etc.

Like I said not everyone should be married.

I think even St. Paul said something to that effect.  But there are also plenty of crosses/sacrifices/suffering, etc. in remaining unmarried.  Marriage, the saying goes, is a "calling", and not everyone is called.

I'm married.  It's wonderful and it's painful (usually not simultaneously, though  Grin ).  Just like the rest of life.
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« Reply #121 on: January 10, 2014, 03:58:27 PM »

^ how is any of the above not "Orthodox".
You are right. This is your post to which I intended my response:
Quote
If we could fast forward 10 years, the only person I would be remotely interested in would be James. I love his honesty.

Now all I want to see is James pimpin'. Too young to stick to longterm monogamy.

Gotta get a feel of different kinds of women. Know what I'm saying?
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« Reply #122 on: January 10, 2014, 04:04:47 PM »

Because James should.

It would be tragic if he got married to his first real girlfriend outside of school.

And thats where I disagree with orthonorm here, at least in reflection of myself. I know my best friend since the 5th grade and he hasn't changed.

Me on the other hand, if I went back 5 years ago I would hardly recognize myself. Maybe its maturity, maybe its I did not get caught up in the religion thing but I am certain who I am today differs from myself in the past. Maybe I wasn't fully realized my potential until later or whatever.

I'm just saying James is too young.

He should be getting girls left and right. I would hate to see his heart broken over a relationship he shouldn't have been involved in.

Wish there was an age requirement for religion. Its a burden.

Not all girls are worthy of James IMO. Some will want to harm him.
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« Reply #123 on: January 10, 2014, 04:11:37 PM »

I would say that is quite a bit different than pimpin'

Although, maybe pimpin' has a different meaning now than what it did when I was a kid.
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« Reply #124 on: January 10, 2014, 04:15:49 PM »

I would say that is quite a bit different than pimpin'

Although, maybe pimpin' has a different meaning now than what it did when I was a kid.

My, how times and words do change  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes:
Quote
Pimpin
1) To work it with a member of the opposite sex
2) A compliment used when someone is wearing platinum chains, Fubu™ clothes, etc.
3) An object of high appeal

also see pimpette
1) Ricky is pimpin wit dem hoes
2) Damn dawg, your pimpin it with that chain
3) That Jaguar is pimpin

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pimpin

But...what on earth does "to work it..." mean?  Or, shouldn't I ask?
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« Reply #125 on: January 10, 2014, 04:16:21 PM »

My last post was projection, yes. If you go through some serious heart crushin it changes your perception on a lot of things.

For me I just got mad I wasted my time trying to be this husband like person.

Tri, I just want to see James happy and enjoying himself. Youth is a terrible thing to waste right.

Look at the regrets GiC has over getting his degree at a seminary or whatever. I would hate for regrets to befall James.

Hold off on the marrying and the monasticism. Be a normal 18 year old American male, then come back when you are older and take the Orthodox thing seriously.
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« Reply #126 on: January 10, 2014, 04:19:19 PM »

I don't know GiC, so I don't know what regrets those might be.  I've seen his name a couple of times, but that is it.

Actually, I agree with you.  There is really no reason anyone in their teens or even early 20s should be thinking about marriage.  Get to know (not in the Biblical sense) those of the opposite sex. As time goes on, you will get a better idea of who and what you want in life.
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« Reply #127 on: January 10, 2014, 04:20:21 PM »

I would say that is quite a bit different than pimpin'

Although, maybe pimpin' has a different meaning now than what it did when I was a kid.

My, how times and words do change  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes:
Quote
Pimpin
1) To work it with a member of the opposite sex
2) A compliment used when someone is wearing platinum chains, Fubu™ clothes, etc.
3) An object of high appeal

also see pimpette
1) Ricky is pimpin wit dem hoes
2) Damn dawg, your pimpin it with that chain
3) That Jaguar is pimpin

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pimpin

But...what on earth does "to work it..." mean?  Or, shouldn't I ask?
I think he is saying that he wants James to wear FUBU clothing.  I know I want that for James as well.  Cheesy
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« Reply #128 on: January 10, 2014, 04:20:34 PM »

I don't know GiC, so I don't know what regrets those might be.  I've seen his name a couple of times, but that is it.

Actually, I agree with you.  There is really no reason anyone in their teens or even early 20s should be thinking about marriage.  Get to know (not in the Biblical sense) those of the opposite sex. As time goes on, you will get a better idea of who and what you want in life.
Yup.

But dude people around here want the return to marriages at 18. In this day and age? Hilarious. Good luck.
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« Reply #129 on: January 10, 2014, 04:21:06 PM »

"DON’T POOP WITH THE BATHROOM DOOR OPEN."

Why would anyone do that?

Cause they are not uptight?

And here I thought it was courteous to close the door.

Pfft. Doors are for squares. Everyone who's really on the cutting edge of being edgy poops in a publicly-installed aquarium now.

I'll give you one guess as to what this is:



Hint: I took that photo from a website called "theportlandegotist", and in Portland they do not know the difference between edgy and...ahem...crappy.  Undecided
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« Reply #130 on: January 10, 2014, 04:25:01 PM »

My last post was projection, yes. If you go through some serious heart crushin it changes your perception on a lot of things.

For me I just got mad I wasted my time trying to be this husband like person.

Tri, I just want to see James happy and enjoying himself. Youth is a terrible thing to waste right.

Look at the regrets GiC has over getting his degree at a seminary or whatever. I would hate for regrets to befall James.

Hold off on the marrying and the monasticism. Be a normal 18 year old American male, then come back when you are older and take the Orthodox thing seriously.

JamesR can be a "normal 18 year old American male" (whatever THAT is) and still "take the Orthodox thing seriously."  Well, you know, on second thought, maybe not.  Perhaps he should scrap the "normal 18 year old American male" (whatever THAT is) schtick, and take the Orthodox thing seriously, as an 18 year old Orthodox American male.  But what do I know...I'm just an abnormal old American male....
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« Reply #131 on: January 10, 2014, 04:27:23 PM »

I would say that is quite a bit different than pimpin'

Although, maybe pimpin' has a different meaning now than what it did when I was a kid.

My, how times and words do change  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes:
Quote
Pimpin
1) To work it with a member of the opposite sex
2) A compliment used when someone is wearing platinum chains, Fubu™ clothes, etc.
3) An object of high appeal

also see pimpette
1) Ricky is pimpin wit dem hoes
2) Damn dawg, your pimpin it with that chain
3) That Jaguar is pimpin

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pimpin

But...what on earth does "to work it..." mean?  Or, shouldn't I ask?
I think he is saying that he wants James to wear FUBU clothing.  I know I want that for James as well.  Cheesy

Oh, okay...Thanks!  But, what's "FUBU clothing"?  Or, shouldn't I ask?
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« Reply #132 on: January 10, 2014, 04:29:17 PM »

"DON’T POOP WITH THE BATHROOM DOOR OPEN."

Why would anyone do that?

Cause they are not uptight?

And here I thought it was courteous to close the door.

Pfft. Doors are for squares. Everyone who's really on the cutting edge of being edgy poops in a publicly-installed aquarium now.

I'll give you one guess as to what this is:



Hint: I took that photo from a website called "theportlandegotist", and in Portland they do not know the difference between edgy and...ahem...crappy.  Undecided

I have a hard enough time in a stall!
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« Reply #133 on: January 10, 2014, 04:31:31 PM »

"DON’T POOP WITH THE BATHROOM DOOR OPEN."

Why would anyone do that?

Cause they are not uptight?

And here I thought it was courteous to close the door.

Pfft. Doors are for squares. Everyone who's really on the cutting edge of being edgy poops in a publicly-installed aquarium now.

I'll give you one guess as to what this is:



Hint: I took that photo from a website called "theportlandegotist", and in Portland they do not know the difference between edgy and...ahem...crappy.  Undecided

I have a hard enough time in a stall!

That picture is really an upgraded Tardis.  I'm sure you'd "do" just fine inside it's roomy self.
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« Reply #134 on: January 10, 2014, 04:36:18 PM »

Jeff, I don't think being Orthodox at 18 is healthy.
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« Reply #135 on: January 10, 2014, 04:37:36 PM »

Jeff, I don't think being Orthodox at 18 is healthy.

I don't think that damnation at 19 is any more.
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« Reply #136 on: January 10, 2014, 04:37:54 PM »

Jeff, I don't think being Orthodox at 18 is healthy.

Yeah, I got that, Alex.  I just happen to disagree.  Seems we have different ideas about what's "healthy"....
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« Reply #137 on: January 10, 2014, 04:45:25 PM »

Jeff, I don't think being Orthodox at 18 is healthy.
Eh?  That is just silly. You don't have to wait for a certain age before taking your faith seriously.
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« Reply #138 on: January 10, 2014, 04:46:19 PM »

Jeff, I don't think being Orthodox at 18 is healthy.

Millions have done it and turned out just fine.
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« Reply #139 on: January 10, 2014, 04:53:35 PM »

Jeff, I don't think being Orthodox at 18 is healthy.

Millions have done it and turned out just fine.

Yeah...you gotta wonder where a statement like his is coming from....
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« Reply #140 on: January 10, 2014, 04:54:55 PM »

Jeff, I don't think being Orthodox at 18 is healthy.

Millions have done it and turned out just fine.

Yeah...you gotta wonder where a statement like his is coming from....

Not sure I wanna touch that bit... Wink
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« Reply #141 on: January 10, 2014, 04:59:17 PM »

Jeff, I don't think being Orthodox at 18 is healthy.

Millions have done it and turned out just fine.

Yeah...you gotta wonder where a statement like his is coming from....

Not sure I wanna touch that bit... Wink

You're probably right.  Speculation about those kinds of things can get pretty, uh....what?....messy. Wink
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« Reply #142 on: January 10, 2014, 05:13:35 PM »

?

I wasn't Odox at 18. Nor even involved with religion.
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« Reply #143 on: January 10, 2014, 05:19:06 PM »

?

I wasn't Odox at 18. Nor even involved with religion.

So, is that the basis for your bad advice to JamesR??  That you weren't involved with religion, much less Orthodoxy, at 18? 
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« Reply #144 on: January 10, 2014, 05:22:30 PM »

I wish I could just take a break from this Orthodoxy and live with no rules for at least a couple days; that'd be nice. It's unfair that the cradles can break all the rules and sin, but we converts are expected to be perfect.
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« Reply #145 on: January 10, 2014, 05:26:05 PM »

Jeff, I don't think being Orthodox at 18 is healthy.

Millions have done it and turned out just fine.

Who? The cradle kind who only go to Church once a year?
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« Reply #146 on: January 10, 2014, 05:26:58 PM »

I wish I could just take a break from this Orthodoxy and live with no rules for at least a couple days; that'd be nice. It's unfair that the cradles can break all the rules and sin, but we converts are expected to be perfect.

Why can't you take a break?  Plenty of Orthodox, cradle and convert, do so, living with no rules for longer than one or two days (whether or not it's "nice").  Does your priest follow you around with a bamboo cane and beat you when you start breaking rules?  
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« Reply #147 on: January 10, 2014, 05:28:44 PM »

I wish I could just take a break from this Orthodoxy and live with no rules for at least a couple days; that'd be nice. It's unfair that the cradles can break all the rules and sin, but we converts are expected to be perfect.

"Who" expects you to be perfect?  "What" makes you think that cradles break all the rules and sin?  "Where" is this coming from, besides the hormones of an 18 year old?

"Why" haven't you discussed these concerns with your Priest?

"How" are you going to rectify this situation?
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« Reply #148 on: January 10, 2014, 05:28:49 PM »

?

I wasn't Odox at 18. Nor even involved with religion.

So, is that the basis for your bad advice to JamesR??  That you weren't involved with religion, much less Orthodoxy, at 18? 
Lol I may have dodged a few bullets at 18 if I was Orthodox.
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« Reply #149 on: January 10, 2014, 05:29:16 PM »

I wish I could just take a break from this Orthodoxy and live with no rules for at least a couple days; that'd be nice. It's unfair that the cradles can break all the rules and sin, but we converts are expected to be perfect.

Why can't you take a break?  Plenty of Orthodox, cradle and convert, do so, living with no rules for longer than one or two days (whether or not it's "nice").  Does your priest follow you around with a bamboo cane and beat you when you start breaking rules?  

Well he emails me whenever I miss Church
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« Reply #150 on: January 10, 2014, 05:30:48 PM »

But seriously.

Here's what doesn't make sense to me. JamesR unfourtantley found Orthodoxy at age 16 or 15...and some of us have had tons of fun during our late teens and twenties but we found religion later on.

But now its all honky dory cause we can just repent...well actually get baptized before that.
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« Reply #151 on: January 10, 2014, 05:31:05 PM »

Shiny has got a point here. Why should anyone be in a rush to convert to Orthodoxy?

If the parable of the Prodigal Son tells us anything, it's that people who work hard their entire life to do what's right are not going to get crap in the end--except maybe some vain existential promise or something--whereas the obstinate who return at the very last minute will get a huge banquet with everything.
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« Reply #152 on: January 10, 2014, 05:31:18 PM »

I wish I could just take a break from this Orthodoxy and live with no rules for at least a couple days; that'd be nice. It's unfair that the cradles can break all the rules and sin, but we converts are expected to be perfect.

You can.  The only one stopping you is you.  You know...that old "free will" and "choice" and "consequences" conundrum.  Did you know it is just as much an affront to God, if not more so, to consciously, purposely sin saying to yourself, "hey...it's okay, cuz I can go to confession and get absolved and not jeopardize my salvation" as it is to just sin in the "normal" course of events??  What if, God forbid, you died before you had a chance to contact your priest to say, "Break's over.  I'm ready now..."?

What makes you think it's "okay" for cradles to break rules and sin any more than converts?  Because, you know...it ain't.
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« Reply #153 on: January 10, 2014, 05:31:50 PM »

Jeff, I don't think being Orthodox at 18 is healthy.

Millions have done it and turned out just fine.

Who? The cradle kind who only go to Church once a year?

You don't know why those "cradle kind" go to Church once a year.
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« Reply #154 on: January 10, 2014, 05:35:45 PM »

Jeff, I don't think being Orthodox at 18 is healthy.

Millions have done it and turned out just fine.

Who? The cradle kind who only go to Church once a year?

No. The cradle kind who go to church at least once a week. My classes were full of that kind of teenagers. I don't call it Sunday school because it was actually held on Saturday morning after liturgy, but the fact remains that we turned up, week after week, and not five minutes in advance.

Your experiences are far from universal.
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« Reply #155 on: January 10, 2014, 05:35:56 PM »

Shiny has got a point here. Why should anyone be in a rush to convert to Orthodoxy?

If the parable of the Prodigal Son tells us anything, it's that people who work hard their entire life to do what's right are not going to get crap in the end--except maybe some vain existential promise or something--whereas the obstinate who return at the very last minute will get a huge banquet with everything.
Exactly.

It seems wholly unfair.
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« Reply #156 on: January 10, 2014, 05:36:41 PM »

Well he emails me whenever I miss Church

OK.  So when you miss church, he writes about how you were wrong not to show up, how you committed a sin, that God's going to punish you because his patience for converts is limited (unlike his patience with converts), that when he sees you next he's going to slap you and prohibit you from communing for a few weeks, etc., etc., right?  

Or could he just be concerned about you?  Perhaps he emails others too, or calls them, or otherwise reaches out to them, whether or not you know about it?  
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« Reply #157 on: January 10, 2014, 05:37:13 PM »

Shiny has got a point here. Why should anyone be in a rush to convert to Orthodoxy?

If the parable of the Prodigal Son tells us anything, it's that people who work hard their entire life to do what's right are not going to get crap in the end--except maybe some vain existential promise or something--whereas the obstinate who return at the very last minute will get a huge banquet with everything.
Exactly.

It seems wholly unfair.

Yeah...life's unfair.  Get over it.
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« Reply #158 on: January 10, 2014, 05:37:56 PM »

Jeff, I don't think being Orthodox at 18 is healthy.

Millions have done it and turned out just fine.

Who? The cradle kind who only go to Church once a year?

No. The cradle kind who go to church at least once a week. My classes were full of that kind of teenagers.

Okay, rephrase it this way: how many of them were there because they had an Orthodox family or grandma forcing them to?

I got no one to tell me to go to Church or fast with me or to remind me to pray the Hours. It's all on me. Take away those teenagers' Orthodox family and put them in my shoes and I guarantee you that you'll lose 90% of them.
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« Reply #159 on: January 10, 2014, 05:38:59 PM »

Shiny has got a point here. Why should anyone be in a rush to convert to Orthodoxy?

If the parable of the Prodigal Son tells us anything, it's that people who work hard their entire life to do what's right are not going to get crap in the end--except maybe some vain existential promise or something--whereas the obstinate who return at the very last minute will get a huge banquet with everything.
Exactly.

It seems wholly unfair.

Yeah...life's unfair.  Get over it.
Not for everyone though. Thats the point.

Why do certain people suffer more than others?
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« Reply #160 on: January 10, 2014, 05:39:30 PM »

Jeff, I don't think being Orthodox at 18 is healthy.

Millions have done it and turned out just fine.

Who? The cradle kind who only go to Church once a year?

No. The cradle kind who go to church at least once a week. My classes were full of that kind of teenagers.

Okay, rephrase it this way: how many of them were there because they had an Orthodox family or grandma forcing them to?

I got no one to tell me to go to Church or fast with me or to remind me to pray the Hours. It's all on me. Take away those teenagers' Orthodox family and put them in my shoes and I guarantee you that you'll lose 90% of them.
Or out of cultural/ethnic identification.
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« Reply #161 on: January 10, 2014, 05:39:57 PM »

Shiny has got a point here. Why should anyone be in a rush to convert to Orthodoxy?

If the parable of the Prodigal Son tells us anything, it's that people who work hard their entire life to do what's right are not going to get crap in the end--except maybe some vain existential promise or something--whereas the obstinate who return at the very last minute will get a huge banquet with everything.
Exactly.

It seems wholly unfair.

If you really believe that, why talk so much about how unfair it is and instead just give it up?  After all, it's Jesus' own story, with Jesus' own interpretation.  If it's unfair, then why waste time on Jesus?  
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« Reply #162 on: January 10, 2014, 05:44:24 PM »

Basically James if you decide to get married, make sure you have a pre-nup.

Definitely doing that.

It's not fair how a woman can marry a man, make him give her two or three children, then gain weight, complain, spend all his money, refuse to cook anymore, and then divorce him and take half his stuff.

I'm only giving her what she gives me. I'll give a woman my all only if she gives me her all.
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« Reply #163 on: January 10, 2014, 05:45:09 PM »

lol, James with a pre-nup.

Does James have a great amount of wealth that needs to be protected?  My impression was the girl was coming in with all the money.  If that's the case, you don't want a pre-nup. Get that split 50/50.  Cheesy
James has a heart of gold. So absolutely that needs to be on there.

That really means very much; thank you Shiny.
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« Reply #164 on: January 10, 2014, 05:46:19 PM »

Jeff, I don't think being Orthodox at 18 is healthy.

Millions have done it and turned out just fine.

Who? The cradle kind who only go to Church once a year?

No. The cradle kind who go to church at least once a week. My classes were full of that kind of teenagers.

Okay, rephrase it this way: how many of them were there because they had an Orthodox family or grandma forcing them to?

I got no one to tell me to go to Church or fast with me or to remind me to pray the Hours. It's all on me. Take away those teenagers' Orthodox family and put them in my shoes and I guarantee you that you'll lose 90% of them.

Do the best you can and don't worry about what other people are doing (or not doing). 
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« Reply #165 on: January 10, 2014, 05:47:38 PM »

It would be tragic if he got married to his first real girlfriend outside of school

Yeah that's something I have to be careful of. I've never been in a serious relationship so I don't want to take it too fast and somehow screw myself over the first time she says "I love you" and it toys with my bizarre, JamesR heart.

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« Reply #166 on: January 10, 2014, 05:50:08 PM »

Shiny has got a point here. Why should anyone be in a rush to convert to Orthodoxy?

If the parable of the Prodigal Son tells us anything, it's that people who work hard their entire life to do what's right are not going to get crap in the end--except maybe some vain existential promise or something--whereas the obstinate who return at the very last minute will get a huge banquet with everything.
Exactly.

It seems wholly unfair.

If you really believe that, why talk so much about how unfair it is and instead just give it up?  After all, it's Jesus' own story, with Jesus' own interpretation.  If it's unfair, then why waste time on Jesus?  

"Jesus is my hero but his rules are unfair."

I've heard that one too many times.
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« Reply #167 on: January 10, 2014, 05:50:49 PM »

Jeff, I don't think being Orthodox at 18 is healthy.

Millions have done it and turned out just fine.

Who? The cradle kind who only go to Church once a year?

No. The cradle kind who go to church at least once a week. My classes were full of that kind of teenagers.

Okay, rephrase it this way: how many of them were there because they had an Orthodox family or grandma forcing them to?

I got no one to tell me to go to Church or fast with me or to remind me to pray the Hours. It's all on me. Take away those teenagers' Orthodox family and put them in my shoes and I guarantee you that you'll lose 90% of them.

Finance 101: Don't give guarantees on things you don't have the foggiest idea about.

And please, stop embarrassing yourself with spouting stupidity. What non-Orthodox kid would attend Orthodox Sunday school? We all came from Orthodox families. You know, the cradles who attended church once a year. Tongue
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« Reply #168 on: January 10, 2014, 05:52:54 PM »

What non-Orthodox kid would attend Orthodox Sunday school?

I did as a catechumen

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We all came from Orthodox families. You know, the cradles who attended church once a year. Tongue

Sounds like you fellows had it pretty easy then.

But fellows like me and Shiny had to work to have what you have and we're still regarded as second-class by the Greek elitists and have to carry a heavier burden.
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« Reply #169 on: January 10, 2014, 05:53:18 PM »

Jeff, I don't think being Orthodox at 18 is healthy.

Millions have done it and turned out just fine.

Who? The cradle kind who only go to Church once a year?

No. The cradle kind who go to church at least once a week. My classes were full of that kind of teenagers.

Okay, rephrase it this way: how many of them were there because they had an Orthodox family or grandma forcing them to?

I got no one to tell me to go to Church or fast with me or to remind me to pray the Hours. It's all on me. Take away those teenagers' Orthodox family and put them in my shoes and I guarantee you that you'll lose 90% of them.
Has your priest advised to you do all that, or are you undertaking it all because you feel that you should? I'm not saying you should become an atheist or go crazy and sleep with a bunch of girls, but perhaps rest from some of your efforts could be beneficial.  I doubt being resentful while praying the hours or fasting provides much spiritual benefit. If anything, it just encourages legalism.  But then, I'm not a spiritual guide, so it would probably be best to discuss with your priest.
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« Reply #170 on: January 10, 2014, 05:54:30 PM »

But fellows like me and Shiny had to work to have what you have and we're still regarded as second-class by the Greek elitists and have to carry a heavier burden.

What exactly do we have that you don't?
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« Reply #171 on: January 10, 2014, 05:55:08 PM »

But seriously,

This thing about having fun at 18 and in your early 20s and college life and all, it's VERY foreign to me.

Where I come from, everyone was having kids and "growing up" (or at least trying to) at the age of 16-18. No one goes to college and there is no such thing as "having fun" and "being a kid" in your late teens/early twenties.

My mom herself had me at 15.

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« Reply #172 on: January 10, 2014, 05:58:20 PM »

But fellows like me and Shiny had to work to have what you have and we're still regarded as second-class by the Greek elitists and have to carry a heavier burden.

What exactly do we have that you don't?

How about an Orthodox family that helps you practice your faith and encourages you? Now compare this to me and Shiny where we come from non-Orthodox families who are often hostile, or at least virtually uninvolved, in our religious lives and thus we are left to do it all on our own. And oftentimes, doing it on our own also means doing it in a hostile environment.

But we're still treated like crap. The EP hates our guts.
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« Reply #173 on: January 10, 2014, 05:59:48 PM »

How about an Orthodox family that helps you practice your faith and encourages you?

The same one that breaks all the rules?
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« Reply #174 on: January 10, 2014, 06:00:10 PM »

If you really believe that, why talk so much about how unfair it is and instead just give it up?

Because then I'd be like the cradles.
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« Reply #175 on: January 10, 2014, 06:00:56 PM »

How about an Orthodox family that helps you practice your faith and encourages you?

The same one that breaks all the rules?

Yep; the one that, in the very least, isn't hostile toward your faith and is at least culturally Orthodox. Try living in the home of American Evangelicals and you'll get it.
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« Reply #176 on: January 10, 2014, 06:03:59 PM »

How about an Orthodox family that helps you practice your faith and encourages you?

The same one that breaks all the rules?

Or in the other case, many of you have a really strong Orthodox family and you're able to just ride on their prestige and not have to do anything on your own.
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« Reply #177 on: January 10, 2014, 06:05:02 PM »

If you really believe that, why talk so much about how unfair it is and instead just give it up?

Because then I'd be like the cradles.

But I thought you wanted to live like them.  Is it now beneath you to live like them?  
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« Reply #178 on: January 10, 2014, 06:06:02 PM »

Jeff, I don't think being Orthodox at 18 is healthy.

Millions have done it and turned out just fine.

Who? The cradle kind who only go to Church once a year?

No. The cradle kind who go to church at least once a week. My classes were full of that kind of teenagers.

Okay, rephrase it this way: how many of them were there because they had an Orthodox family or grandma forcing them to?

I got no one to tell me to go to Church or fast with me or to remind me to pray the Hours. It's all on me. Take away those teenagers' Orthodox family and put them in my shoes and I guarantee you that you'll lose 90% of them.

Finance 101: Don't give guarantees on things you don't have the foggiest idea about.

And please, stop embarrassing yourself with spouting stupidity. What non-Orthodox kid would attend Orthodox Sunday school? We all came from Orthodox families. You know, the cradles who attended church once a year. Tongue
What would you know about finance?
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« Reply #179 on: January 10, 2014, 06:06:28 PM »

But fellows like me and Shiny had to work to have what you have and we're still regarded as second-class by the Greek elitists and have to carry a heavier burden.

What exactly do we have that you don't?

How about an Orthodox family that helps you practice your faith and encourages you? Now compare this to me and Shiny where we come from non-Orthodox families who are often hostile, or at least virtually uninvolved, in our religious lives and thus we are left to do it all on our own. And oftentimes, doing it on our own also means doing it in a hostile environment.

But we're still treated like crap. The EP hates our guts.

Last I checked, you're not under the EP, so...

Look, James, this is not a more-downtrodden-than-thou contest. Straighten up and fly right, or give up and live without rules. Just quit whining and sniveling like a toddler who isn't getting his way.
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« Reply #180 on: January 10, 2014, 06:08:40 PM »

Look, James, this is not a more-downtrodden-than-thou contest. Straighten up and fly right, or give up and live without rules. Just quit whining and sniveling like a toddler who isn't getting his way.

Bingo.
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« Reply #181 on: January 10, 2014, 06:10:11 PM »

James, keep in mind it is fair.  You will not be called into account for their souls.  You will be judged for your own.  If you want to screw around I will be the last to judge you, if that.  And don't do good because you are afraid of God's judgement.  Think about Christ's sacrifices in this world and if you think they were worth while then do good out of love for Him.  If you are anything like me you'll probably not even scratch the surface of paying Him back, but who cares?  It was better to have fought and lost than not have fought at all.
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« Reply #182 on: January 10, 2014, 06:11:31 PM »

If you really believe that, why talk so much about how unfair it is and instead just give it up?

Because then I'd be like the cradles.

But I thought you wanted to live like them.  Is it now beneath you to live like them?  

In an odd way, yeah.

It's a strange thing.

I want the freedom and fun, but at the same time, I don't want the dishonor and lack of dignity that I ascribe to cradles, because then I'd be a hypocrite.
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« Reply #183 on: January 10, 2014, 06:12:29 PM »

James, keep in mind it is fair.  You will not be called into account for their souls.  You will be judged for your own.  If you want to screw around I will be the last to judge you, if that.  And don't do good because you are afraid of God's judgement.  Think about Christ's sacrifices in this world and if you think they were worth while then do good out of love for Him.  If you are anything like me you'll probably not even scratch the surface of paying Him back, but who cares?  It was better to have fought and lost than not have fought at all.

I suppose it is better to stick with what I started. I'm not a man that changes his mind much.
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« Reply #184 on: January 10, 2014, 06:29:29 PM »

I wish I could just take a break from this Orthodoxy and live with no rules for at least a couple days; that'd be nice. It's unfair that the cradles can break all the rules and sin, but we converts are expected to be perfect.

Why can't you take a break?  Plenty of Orthodox, cradle and convert, do so, living with no rules for longer than one or two days (whether or not it's "nice").  Does your priest follow you around with a bamboo cane and beat you when you start breaking rules?  

Well he emails me whenever I miss Church

And my priest sends me text messages saying "We haven't seen you in a long time. We hope you will be with us again soon." He knows that i, like you, have non-Orthodox family and sometimes I need to leave the state to go visit them (like around Western Christmas/now). Are you sure you're not reading something into his concern that is more judgmental than he may mean it? Perhaps there are communication problems due to differing backgrounds, e.g., him not being an American teenager? Smiley I think it's good to give priests, and everybody, the benefit of the doubt whenever possible.

I mean...no priest or parishioner is perfect, but I have always assumed that abouna leaves the judgment for when I get back, and I have yet to be proven wrong.
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« Reply #185 on: January 10, 2014, 07:19:31 PM »

If you really believe that, why talk so much about how unfair it is and instead just give it up?

Because then I'd be like the cradles.

But I thought you wanted to live like them.  Is it now beneath you to live like them?  

In an odd way, yeah.

It's a strange thing.

I want the freedom and fun, but at the same time, I don't want the dishonor and lack of dignity that I ascribe to cradles, because then I'd be a hypocrite.

It's not strange at all.  It's called pride. 
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« Reply #186 on: January 10, 2014, 07:23:44 PM »

If you really believe that, why talk so much about how unfair it is and instead just give it up?

Because then I'd be like the cradles.

But I thought you wanted to live like them.  Is it now beneath you to live like them?  

In an odd way, yeah.

It's a strange thing.

I want the freedom and fun, but at the same time, I don't want the dishonor and lack of dignity that I ascribe to cradles, because then I'd be a hypocrite.

It's not strange at all.  It's called pride. 
Or maybe just the struggle that all Christians deal with.
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« Reply #187 on: January 10, 2014, 07:25:25 PM »

Or maybe just the struggle that all Christians deal with.

Like I said, pride.  Smiley
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« Reply #188 on: January 10, 2014, 07:40:01 PM »

I'm not a man that changes his mind much.

Aren't you?
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« Reply #189 on: January 11, 2014, 10:04:16 AM »

I'm not a man.


Hmmmm.
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« Reply #190 on: January 11, 2014, 02:56:31 PM »

If you really believe that, why talk so much about how unfair it is and instead just give it up?

Because then I'd be like the cradles.

But I thought you wanted to live like them.  Is it now beneath you to live like them?  

In an odd way, yeah.

It's a strange thing.

I want the freedom and fun, but at the same time, I don't want the dishonor and lack of dignity that I ascribe to cradles, because then I'd be a hypocrite.

It's not strange at all.  It's called pride. 
^ This.
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« Reply #191 on: January 12, 2014, 05:44:27 PM »

Be a normal 18 year old American male, then come back when you are older and take the Orthodox thing seriously.

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« Reply #192 on: January 12, 2014, 05:46:31 PM »

LOL!
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« Reply #193 on: January 12, 2014, 11:00:44 PM »

Be a normal 18 year old American male, then come back when you are older and take the Orthodox thing seriously.



Hahahaha!  Had to show hubby! 
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