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Author Topic: Santa Clause  (Read 1919 times) Average Rating: 0
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Mamizous
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« Reply #45 on: December 17, 2013, 02:18:50 PM »

Never went through the princess phase, but I was crushed when I realised telekinesis wasn't real and that I could never learn to manipulate things with my mind. Sad
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« Reply #46 on: December 17, 2013, 02:25:02 PM »

Matilda?  Smiley
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« Reply #47 on: December 17, 2013, 02:29:44 PM »

Nostalgia overload, haven't seen that movie in quite a while... but actually, it was all due to video games...
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« Reply #48 on: December 17, 2013, 02:57:33 PM »


I think I like your nephew!  What type of helmet did you get him?



BudK Russian WWII M52 Steel Helmet    The German ones I could find were just too expensive.  I couldn't find any American ones.

He also got:



and



and

Ukrainian 95th Airbourne Medal
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« Reply #49 on: December 17, 2013, 02:58:32 PM »

You're a cool aunt. Smiley
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« Reply #50 on: December 17, 2013, 03:02:18 PM »

Matilda?  Smiley

Or Jean Grey. Wink
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« Reply #51 on: December 17, 2013, 03:33:22 PM »

With American and German helmets you kind of have to look for copies.  The US M1 pot was copied by all kinds of places.  I thinkt he Dutch, French, Israelis, South Vietnamese, South Koreans, Belgians...etc all used a copy at some point or another.  With German helmets the Spanish copy of the (M36?) is pretty close.  Otherwise, they are all reproductions...which is where the expense comes in. 
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« Reply #52 on: December 17, 2013, 04:41:07 PM »

I don't do Santa in my house.  I might've believed in him for about a year, 3-4 years old, but after I started asking questions, the answers didn't suffice.  I wanted to know why he never brought me what I asked for.  Turns out I told my mom and grandma certain things but told Santa something else (why duplicate the list, am I right?!).  We didn't have a chimney, so my mom said he had a magic key that unlocks doors of houses with no chimney.  Seemed kind of silly to use the chimney at all if you had a key the whole time.  When I was finally able to stay awake until I caught my parents, I couldn't understand why they persisted in making up ridiculous lies, saying Santa left the presents on the porch and that they were just putting them under the tree for him.  Umm...what about the magic key?  Seriously?  How stupid do I look?  Then we started going to church, and I had to wonder if Jesus is the reason for the season why all the hype about an imaginary man?

I guess since I never really appreciated the whole Santa thing I didn't do it with my son, but when he started school, I did tell him not to tell the other children it was just a made-up story.  I also don't do the Easter bunny or the tooth fairy.  I just don't see the fun in lying to my son and being the cause of his disappointment when he figures it out.
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« Reply #53 on: December 17, 2013, 05:30:53 PM »

I don't do Santa in my house.  I might've believed in him for about a year, 3-4 years old, but after I started asking questions, the answers didn't suffice.  I wanted to know why he never brought me what I asked for.  Turns out I told my mom and grandma certain things but told Santa something else (why duplicate the list, am I right?!).  We didn't have a chimney, so my mom said he had a magic key that unlocks doors of houses with no chimney.  Seemed kind of silly to use the chimney at all if you had a key the whole time.  When I was finally able to stay awake until I caught my parents, I couldn't understand why they persisted in making up ridiculous lies, saying Santa left the presents on the porch and that they were just putting them under the tree for him.  Umm...what about the magic key?  Seriously?  How stupid do I look?  Then we started going to church, and I had to wonder if Jesus is the reason for the season why all the hype about an imaginary man?

I guess since I never really appreciated the whole Santa thing I didn't do it with my son, but when he started school, I did tell him not to tell the other children it was just a made-up story.  I also don't do the Easter bunny or the tooth fairy.  I just don't see the fun in lying to my son and being the cause of his disappointment when he figures it out.
I'm sorry you didn't have wonder.
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« Reply #54 on: December 17, 2013, 06:01:57 PM »

I wondered why my mom kept lying to me.  Doesn't that count?  My mom said I was too smart for my own good.  lol

Actually, I'm glad I always thought it was bunk because I know people who have said Christmas was never the same for them after they found out.  For me, there's plenty of "magic" in the Nativity.  Angels appear to multiple people.  A virgin gets pregnant with the Son of God.  St. John the Baptist leaped in the womb, and Elizabeth is filled with the Holy Spirit.  A new star appears that no one else but the wise men notice and interpret correctly, who then are able to follow it for a very great distance.  Etc.
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« Reply #55 on: December 17, 2013, 06:12:45 PM »

Santa Clause? Does that have something to do with a contract?
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« Reply #56 on: December 17, 2013, 06:17:32 PM »

I went though the phase of believing in Santa Claus and then finding out it is not so; however, it did later make me want to learn about the true St. Nicholas, so it had a happy ending.
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« Reply #57 on: December 17, 2013, 08:35:04 PM »

Maybe I will try something more Christian when I have kids. Like some saint or something gives presents. I like what some families I know do is open gifts after Midnight Mass. I always liked the idea, as a Catholic, when traditionally Christmas Eve is a fast day with no meat allowed to come home from midnight mass, open a bottle of  wine, have the first Christmas feast--say something put in the crock pot before Mass, and then open one present each and wait until morning to open the rest. Seems a good Christian way to end a night out at church and the day before fasting and abstaining. Maybe sing a few Christmas carols before bed and pray to St. Nicholas (or whoever you like in your tradition) for all the poor children that they will be granted a happy Christmas and then go to bed. Maybe you can pray to the Baby Jesus. Which reminds me on a more comical note of how it's done, you backwards fools:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5A0-u85aAYg
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« Reply #58 on: December 17, 2013, 09:12:50 PM »

Santa is based on a real person, who did good things for children, so it is not all make believe.

Also we as christians have to believe in what we cannot see, and we are blessed by God for doing that.

◄ John 20:29 ►

Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
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« Reply #59 on: December 18, 2013, 12:02:56 AM »

Here is Santa:

A guy that is "immortal"
He knows if you are good or bad.
He rewards good deeds and through history punished bad deeds with a beating from a krampus (which became elves later)
He works in the night/darkness.
Later children find out he is FAKE.

Here is God:
He is immortal.
He knows if you are good or bad.
He rewards good deeds and punishes for bad ones.
He works in the "light".
-- Will children later think he's a fake as Santa as they have once been told?

I think the lie of Santa is actually spiritually harmful.
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« Reply #60 on: December 18, 2013, 12:14:49 AM »

Here is Santa:

Or St. Nicholas

Quote
A guy that is "immortal"

A guy that is alive in Heaven with God

Quote
He knows if you are good or bad.

As I imagine anyone in the great "cloud of witnesses" does

Quote
He rewards good deeds and through history punished bad deeds with a beating from a krampus (which became elves later)

Rewarding good deeds isn't a bad thing, and I don't know anyone who tells their kids to be good or else they'll get beaten by elves. I've never even heard of a krampus.

Quote
He works in the night/darkness.

Why is night bad, exactly?

Quote
Later children find out he is FAKE.

Or they find out that their parents have been giving them the gifts that St. Nicholas gets the credit for.

Quote
Here is God:
He is immortal.
He knows if you are good or bad.
He rewards good deeds and punishes for bad ones.
He works in the "light".
-- Will children later think he's a fake as Santa as they have once been told?

I think the lie of Santa is actually spiritually harmful.

I don't think it's spiritually harmful at all. I understand why not everyone participates in the Santa tradition and I respect that, but I think it's pretty benign.
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« Reply #61 on: December 18, 2013, 07:12:44 AM »

He rewards good deeds and through history punished bad deeds with a beating from a krampus (which became elves later)

Rewarding good deeds isn't a bad thing, and I don't know anyone who tells their kids to be good or else they'll get beaten by elves. I've never even heard of a krampus.

The Krampus is a German thing. No one without German roots has it as part of their tradition. On the other hand, the theme of mischievous beings out and about around this time of year seems quite widespread, like the kallikantzaroi of Greek folklore.

Yesh is (again) generalising something local. It is traditional in most cultures to exchange presents around the change of the year, but who brings them and exactly when varies, a lot. It would be a pity if the American idea (as opposed to just the imagery) of Santa supplanted everything local.
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« Reply #62 on: December 18, 2013, 09:22:13 AM »

By that logic wouldn't any and all fairy tales by spiritually harmful? Do you scold your kids for playing dress up, or other pretend games? For using their imagination? Why are you comparing a faith to a fairy story?

Yeah for some reason quote isn't working for me.
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« Reply #63 on: December 18, 2013, 09:39:43 AM »

By that logic wouldn't any and all fairy tales by spiritually harmful? Do you scold your kids for playing dress up, or other pretend games? For using their imagination? Why are you comparing a faith to a fairy story?

Yeah for some reason quote isn't working for me.

How isn't it working?
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« Reply #64 on: December 18, 2013, 09:45:19 AM »

I'll press quote and nothing will happen. Not sure if it's quick reply, or quote that's messing up. Or my browser. Either way, it's pretty obvious what I'm responding in relation to.
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« Reply #65 on: December 18, 2013, 10:40:56 AM »

I'll press quote and nothing will happen. Not sure if it's quick reply, or quote that's messing up. Or my browser. Either way, it's pretty obvious what I'm responding in relation to.

Problems' fixed now. Can't seem to modify my posts on this thread, but maybe there's some rule I'm unaware of. Anyway, yeah. What I said before.
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« Reply #66 on: December 18, 2013, 10:42:17 AM »

Quick reply can be buggy; it has been on so many different places that by now I disable it from the get-go. The full editor is more reliable. Wink

You can modify only for a few minutes after the original post, so the ones you can't do have probably timed out.
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« Reply #67 on: December 18, 2013, 10:43:59 AM »

Quick reply can be buggy; it has been on so many different places that by now I disable it from the get-go. The full editor is more reliable. Wink

You can modify only for a few minutes after the original post, so the ones you can't do have probably timed out.

Nah, after a couple of refreshes, the modify button has now appeared.  Huh
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 10:44:31 AM by Mamizous » Logged
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« Reply #68 on: December 18, 2013, 11:33:12 AM »


You should only have a 20 minute window to modify your posts.

Afterwards, they are their until the End of Time...or the server dies...whichever comes first.  Wink
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« Reply #69 on: December 18, 2013, 11:36:32 AM »


You should only have a 20 minute window to modify your posts.

Afterwards, they are their until the End of Time...or the server dies...whichever comes first.  Wink

I did know of this... but I attempted to modify one of my posts within perhaps 5 minutes of the original post.
The modify button was not there, and I wondered why. After a few refreshes, it was back!
Of course now, it is gone, and my posts are concrete, now and forever.
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« Reply #70 on: December 18, 2013, 11:40:32 AM »


Now and forever, amen!
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« Reply #71 on: December 18, 2013, 11:41:42 AM »

I should have said, to the ages of ages.
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« Reply #72 on: December 18, 2013, 11:42:13 AM »


LOL!  That's what I was thinking!!!   laugh
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« Reply #73 on: December 18, 2013, 06:49:07 PM »

Here is Santa:

A guy that is "immortal"
He knows if you are good or bad.
He rewards good deeds and through history punished bad deeds with a beating from a krampus (which became elves later)
He works in the night/darkness.
Later children find out he is FAKE.

Here is God:
He is immortal.
He knows if you are good or bad.
He rewards good deeds and punishes for bad ones.
He works in the "light".
-- Will children later think he's a fake as Santa as they have once been told?

I think the lie of Santa is actually spiritually harmful.

Dont read your children any fairy tales either, they might be harmed if they find out about fiction. One eventually learns there are subtle but important lessons that can benefit us all from these tales we tell, the only real bad side of santa clause is the retail frenzy that most get out of it, but not all children end up that way, it depends on the parents to guide them.
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« Reply #74 on: December 18, 2013, 08:23:35 PM »


Wow....such disrespect towards such a wonderful saint.

Calling him names, comparing him to Putin (who is far from being a saint), to having him punch kids in the face if they are naughty.....and maybe giving kids gifts...at maybe Christmas time, or something.

He's popular enough of a saint that you could easily Google him and find out who he was.

Born to wealthy elderly parents, from infancy the young Nicholas kept the W/F fast - all on his own.  Growing up he would sneak out at night to lay gifts of food and other items by the doors of people whom he knew needed help....every night....not just Christmas.

When his parents died, he gave away everything to the poor....to the point that sometimes he had nothing to eat, himself.  He went to live with his uncle who was a bishop....and studied to be a priest.

He traveled to Jerusalem on a pilgrimage and loved it so much he decided to stay there....but, God came to him in a vision and told him he needed him elsewhere and he must go back....and he did.

There's a great story of how he was elected to be the next Metropolitan of Myra, how he calmed the storms at sea (numerous times), how he saved the three daughters from being sold, the three children from being eaten, the prisoner from being executed, etc.

There's way more to his life than slapping Arias....and even that God worked a miracle by showing Himself to others in defense of St. Nicholas.

...not to mention all the miracles wrought by the saint after his passing from this life.

If you wish to make fun of Santa Claus, Santa Clause, Kris Kringle, Father Noel, etc...go ahead....but, show a bit of respect to one of God's saints.


I think the comparison to Putin was meant to be positive.
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« Reply #75 on: December 18, 2013, 08:39:56 PM »


Wow....such disrespect towards such a wonderful saint.

Calling him names, comparing him to Putin (who is far from being a saint), to having him punch kids in the face if they are naughty.....and maybe giving kids gifts...at maybe Christmas time, or something.

He's popular enough of a saint that you could easily Google him and find out who he was.

Born to wealthy elderly parents, from infancy the young Nicholas kept the W/F fast - all on his own.  Growing up he would sneak out at night to lay gifts of food and other items by the doors of people whom he knew needed help....every night....not just Christmas.

When his parents died, he gave away everything to the poor....to the point that sometimes he had nothing to eat, himself.  He went to live with his uncle who was a bishop....and studied to be a priest.

He traveled to Jerusalem on a pilgrimage and loved it so much he decided to stay there....but, God came to him in a vision and told him he needed him elsewhere and he must go back....and he did.

There's a great story of how he was elected to be the next Metropolitan of Myra, how he calmed the storms at sea (numerous times), how he saved the three daughters from being sold, the three children from being eaten, the prisoner from being executed, etc.

There's way more to his life than slapping Arias....and even that God worked a miracle by showing Himself to others in defense of St. Nicholas.

...not to mention all the miracles wrought by the saint after his passing from this life.

If you wish to make fun of Santa Claus, Santa Clause, Kris Kringle, Father Noel, etc...go ahead....but, show a bit of respect to one of God's saints.


I think the comparison to Putin was meant to be positive.

What would it take for Liza to see it that way?
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« Reply #76 on: December 18, 2013, 09:53:37 PM »


Wow....such disrespect towards such a wonderful saint.

Calling him names, comparing him to Putin (who is far from being a saint), to having him punch kids in the face if they are naughty.....and maybe giving kids gifts...at maybe Christmas time, or something.

He's popular enough of a saint that you could easily Google him and find out who he was.

Born to wealthy elderly parents, from infancy the young Nicholas kept the W/F fast - all on his own.  Growing up he would sneak out at night to lay gifts of food and other items by the doors of people whom he knew needed help....every night....not just Christmas.

When his parents died, he gave away everything to the poor....to the point that sometimes he had nothing to eat, himself.  He went to live with his uncle who was a bishop....and studied to be a priest.

He traveled to Jerusalem on a pilgrimage and loved it so much he decided to stay there....but, God came to him in a vision and told him he needed him elsewhere and he must go back....and he did.

There's a great story of how he was elected to be the next Metropolitan of Myra, how he calmed the storms at sea (numerous times), how he saved the three daughters from being sold, the three children from being eaten, the prisoner from being executed, etc.

There's way more to his life than slapping Arias....and even that God worked a miracle by showing Himself to others in defense of St. Nicholas.

...not to mention all the miracles wrought by the saint after his passing from this life.

If you wish to make fun of Santa Claus, Santa Clause, Kris Kringle, Father Noel, etc...go ahead....but, show a bit of respect to one of God's saints.


I think the comparison to Putin was meant to be positive.

What would it take for Liza to see it that way?

Nothing short of a miracle from God.
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« Reply #77 on: December 18, 2013, 10:51:21 PM »

Here is Santa:

A guy that is "immortal"
He knows if you are good or bad.
He rewards good deeds and through history punished bad deeds with a beating from a krampus (which became elves later)
He works in the night/darkness.
Later children find out he is FAKE.

Here is God:
He is immortal.
He knows if you are good or bad.
He rewards good deeds and punishes for bad ones.
He works in the "light".
-- Will children later think he's a fake as Santa as they have once been told?

I think the lie of Santa is actually spiritually harmful.

Dont read your children any fairy tales either, they might be harmed if they find out about fiction. One eventually learns there are subtle but important lessons that can benefit us all from these tales we tell, the only real bad side of santa clause is the retail frenzy that most get out of it, but not all children end up that way, it depends on the parents to guide them.

We honestly don't read them fairy tales.    There is too much real tales to be learned from.

My main issue with Santa is that in ways he can be compared with God, which is what I was posting above.  The knowledge of your good and bad deeds.  He makes a list (compare book of life) of those who are good/bad etc.  It's a very strange comparison indeed yet makes sense.

Later they find out he is fake, and they were lied to all through childhood about him.  I am afraid this could be a small crack in the dam of faith.


Also - (not my issue) doesn't "Santa" mean "holy" in Spanish?
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« Reply #78 on: December 19, 2013, 05:10:55 AM »

we could easily tell what was real between fairy tales and stories from the Bible.
here's how you tell stories to children (it's easy!)
1. this is a story about a little girl and a little boy in a far away land...
2. this is a true story that really happened. it's in the Bible. there was a little boy who went to see Jesus and he was carrying some bread and fish...

from about the age of 4, the difference between 'real life' stories and 'pretend' stories is obvious, and both are very valuable in developing a child's imagination.

it is so easy to tell children the true tale of saint nicholas, and then say that we remember him by putting presents by the tree and some grown ups dress up like him so they can be nice to little children.
but telling a child that a fairy tale is a true story is very confusing for them. it certainly was for me, before i figured it out.
after i realised what was true, i was just as happy to play 'pretend' with mummy and daddy (the first Christmas when i was 7 they didn't know that i 'knew'!) before and after they admitted what was true.
so, why not just tell the children, 'here in (name of country or town) we all play 'make believe' at Christmas and have a lot of fun'?

you, know, plenty of children will read this thread after putting 'santa claus' in an internet search engine, so you might as well tell them the truth before they find out from someone else.

'santa claus' comes from saying 'sant niclaus' (saint nicholas) quickly in some european language (i forget which, we have so many languages in my continent!)
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« Reply #79 on: December 19, 2013, 05:31:08 AM »

Also - (not my issue) doesn't "Santa" mean "holy" in Spanish?

San/Sant/Santo-a (and other variants) means 'saint' in all Romance languages.
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« Reply #80 on: December 19, 2013, 08:27:17 AM »

Also - (not my issue) doesn't "Santa" mean "holy" in Spanish?

San/Sant/Santo-a (and other variants) means 'saint' in all Romance languages.

And holy Smiley.  Kind of like in Greek "Agios" is both "holy" or "saint" depending on context.

Examples:
San Pedro -  St. Peter
Santa Thecla - St. Thecla
Santa Biblia - Holy Bible
El Santo nombre de Dios - The holy name of God
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« Reply #81 on: December 19, 2013, 11:00:02 AM »

Here is Santa:

A guy that is "immortal"
He knows if you are good or bad.
He rewards good deeds and through history punished bad deeds with a beating from a krampus (which became elves later)
He works in the night/darkness.
Later children find out he is FAKE.

Here is God:
He is immortal.
He knows if you are good or bad.
He rewards good deeds and punishes for bad ones.
He works in the "light".
-- Will children later think he's a fake as Santa as they have once been told?

I think the lie of Santa is actually spiritually harmful.

Dont read your children any fairy tales either, they might be harmed if they find out about fiction. One eventually learns there are subtle but important lessons that can benefit us all from these tales we tell, the only real bad side of santa clause is the retail frenzy that most get out of it, but not all children end up that way, it depends on the parents to guide them.

We honestly don't read them fairy tales.    There is too much real tales to be learned from.

My main issue with Santa is that in ways he can be compared with God, which is what I was posting above.  The knowledge of your good and bad deeds.  He makes a list (compare book of life) of those who are good/bad etc.  It's a very strange comparison indeed yet makes sense.

Later they find out he is fake, and they were lied to all through childhood about him.  I am afraid this could be a small crack in the dam of faith.


Also - (not my issue) doesn't "Santa" mean "holy" in Spanish?

IMHO, you guys are seriously overthinking this. I didn't confuse Santa with God, nor did I think my parents had lied to me throughout my childhood and destroy my faith. (Ok, they did lie about kissing boys, but that's an entirely different story and I'm sure they had my best interests at heart!)

And....

You can learn some really good lessons from fairy tales.
http://www.thebookrat.com/2012/04/all-i-really-need-to-know-i-learned.html
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« Reply #82 on: December 19, 2013, 12:19:20 PM »

(Ok, they did lie about kissing boys, but that's an entirely different story and I'm sure they had my best interests at heart!)

I can't resist asking what they told you.  Tongue
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« Reply #83 on: December 19, 2013, 12:43:54 PM »

we could easily tell what was real between fairy tales and stories from the Bible.
here's how you tell stories to children (it's easy!)
1. this is a story about a little girl and a little boy in a far away land...
2. this is a true story that really happened. it's in the Bible. there was a little boy who went to see Jesus and he was carrying some bread and fish...

from about the age of 4, the difference between 'real life' stories and 'pretend' stories is obvious, and both are very valuable in developing a child's imagination.

it is so easy to tell children the true tale of saint nicholas, and then say that we remember him by putting presents by the tree and some grown ups dress up like him so they can be nice to little children.
but telling a child that a fairy tale is a true story is very confusing for them. it certainly was for me, before i figured it out.
after i realised what was true, i was just as happy to play 'pretend' with mummy and daddy (the first Christmas when i was 7 they didn't know that i 'knew'!) before and after they admitted what was true.
so, why not just tell the children, 'here in (name of country or town) we all play 'make believe' at Christmas and have a lot of fun'?



Exactly!

I think children are pretty clear about the difference between real and pretend much earlier than we think, and like mabsoota says, mostly they are delighted to play pretend with their parents.
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« Reply #84 on: December 19, 2013, 12:45:14 PM »

(Ok, they did lie about kissing boys, but that's an entirely different story and I'm sure they had my best interests at heart!)

I can't resist asking what they told you.  Tongue

That you could get pregnant from it, of course!

Later on, I realized that it was a little more nuanced than that, but the main principle was still sound.  Wink
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« Reply #85 on: December 19, 2013, 02:24:50 PM »

That you could get pregnant from it, of course!

Later on, I realized that it was a little more nuanced than that, but the main principle was still sound.  Wink

Ah.  I'll share a story in exchange. 

When I was in high school, I was very much a homebody.  I'd go to school and do what I had to, but then I'd go home.  School was the only place I would see my friends: I didn't visit them after school, on weekends, during vacations, not ever.  When I went away to college, however, that changed.  When visiting home, I'd look up my friends and we'd make plans to hang out and do stuff on the weekends.  Our group of friends, of course, included girls. 

Once, we made plans to go out to a pool bar, and they swung by my place to pick me up.  One of the girls rang the bell and I needed a minute, so I invited her in (it was cold).  So she walks in and says hello to my mom.  Now, this girl was beautiful.  She practiced ballet since the age of five, so she had a beautiful figure, walked gracefully, all around awesome.  And she walks in wearing tight black leather pants and something that I hesitate to call a spaghetti strap tank top because it seemed to cover even less than what that would describe.  She was very nice to my mom (and vice versa), but in keeping with her general personality, she was calling me sweetie and what not.  All this made my mother rather uncomfortable, but she kept her peace. 

About a week later, she asked to speak with me before going out with my friends agian.  We sat down, and she started rambling on about the morals of youth in America and then she arrived at her main point: "If those girls offer you candy or something like that, don't eat it."  It caught me off guard, and I didn't know what to make of it, so I asked her what she meant.  Apparently, young people in America are full of raging hormones and like to use drugs and alcohol to enable their sexual promiscuity.  I, being a good Christian boy, might innocently take the candy they offer, which may be laced with something, and find myself unable to resist a temptation that ought to be resisted.  So I told her very plainly: "If those girls have anything like that in mind, I promise you they won't need to offer me candy."  Upon hearing this, she began to curse me in three languages.   
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« Reply #86 on: December 19, 2013, 02:38:50 PM »

Candy from pretty girls is dangerous.  My then-girlfriend at the time gave me Reese's Peanut Butter Cups (my favorite candy of all time that I will not refuse, ever) quite often.  She's my wife now, for almost 7 years.
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« Reply #87 on: December 19, 2013, 02:46:14 PM »

This particular situation didn't work out in that way.  Whether or not that is a good thing only God knows.  Tongue
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« Reply #88 on: December 19, 2013, 02:56:32 PM »

Notes taken. Will bribe future husband with candy.
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« Reply #89 on: December 19, 2013, 03:06:48 PM »

Notes taken. Will bribe future husband with candy.

Include girl scout uniform for instant success. Tongue
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