Author Topic: Why do these people sound so convincing?  (Read 705 times)

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Offline Anastasia1

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Why do these people sound so convincing?
« on: December 16, 2013, 12:45:07 AM »
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Believer%27s%20Corner/dangers_of_church.htm

I stumbled on to this article earlier. This type of writer that would make me worry that I wasn't do things right or am I really knowing or following God and what not. I want to understand that better.
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Offline LBK

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Re: Why do these people sound so convincing?
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2013, 12:57:41 AM »
Avoid that site like the plague! Seriously, the writer is a fruitcake, to put it mildly. His take on Orthodoxy alone is riddled with serious errors.
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Offline Anastasia1

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Re: Why do these people sound so convincing?
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2013, 01:43:05 AM »
Avoid that site like the plague! Seriously, the writer is a fruitcake, to put it mildly. His take on Orthodoxy alone is riddled with serious errors.
Oh yes, I did not finish reading the article. But what is it about this type of writing? us v. them style?
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Offline LBK

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Re: Why do these people sound so convincing?
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2013, 01:46:23 AM »
Avoid that site like the plague! Seriously, the writer is a fruitcake, to put it mildly. His take on Orthodoxy alone is riddled with serious errors.
Oh yes, I did not finish reading the article. But what is it about this type of writing? us v. them style?

It's not the "us v them" that's the real problem - the real problem is the multiple and pervasive errors he makes, coupled with a delusional take on Christianity. He's as bad, if not worse, than Jack Chick.
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Offline OrthoNoob

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Re: Why do these people sound so convincing?
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2013, 01:59:50 AM »
'Let me share with you the official dogma (doctrine) of the Catholic Church, which was completed on December 8, 1965 by Pope Paul VI in a declaration titled VATICAN II.'

'What a bunch of lies! No priest can forgive anyone's sins. He can't even forgive his own sins! Come to think of it, who does forgive the priests sins? Does he go to confession too? If the priest goes directly to God, then why can't you?'

'The Seven Sacraments of the Catholic religion were first affirmed in 1439 A.D.'

'The belief is that the flesh and blood of Christ digest into the human body; thus, giving it's recipient spiritual strength and renewal. The logical conclusion then must be that one passes Jesus out in their feces as well. What blasphemy!!!'

'Last Rights[sic] Exposed (also called "Extreme Unction")'

Consider those quotes, and then ask yourself: Is this something I should take seriously?
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Offline Salpy

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Re: Why do these people sound so convincing?
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2013, 02:05:02 AM »
What happened to the scary music?  Didn't there used to be scary music on that site?

Offline FormerCalvinist

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Re: Why do these people sound so convincing?
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2013, 02:10:11 AM »
Oh yes, I did not finish reading the article. But what is it about this type of writing? us v. them style?

I think that's part of it. Another issue is that the author mixes in legitimate points of concern with his nonsense. He complains about Jehovah's Witnesses, Unitarian Universalism, Scientology, people who deny the divinity of Jesus, etc. He points out things that the reader will agree are wrong, so he can build a sort of trust with the reader that he will be reliable in his other points.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 02:10:57 AM by FormerCalvinist »

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Re: Why do these people sound so convincing?
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2013, 02:10:59 AM »
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Believer%27s%20Corner/dangers_of_church.htm

I stumbled on to this article earlier. This type of writer that would make me worry that I wasn't do things right or am I really knowing or following God and what not. I want to understand that better.

Yeah, this site can't get basic facts right (or web design circa this millennium for that matter). I wouldn't trust what they have to say on pretty much any topic, much less religion. The only redeemable part of this site is the fact that it reduces me to hysterics every time I see the picture of my bishop on there.

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Re: Why do these people sound so convincing?
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2013, 02:15:16 AM »
I enjoy visiting that website when I am in the mood for a good laugh. I would love to see the webmaster debate a real Orthodox apologist and get humiliated.
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Offline Irish Melkite

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Re: Why do these people sound so convincing?
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2013, 02:21:02 AM »
Anastasia,

Take a glance at the front page of Stewart's site, it will help to dissuade you from believing that anything he writes is rational. The man has such an overwhelming reservoir of hatred within him that it's scary. LBK compared him to Jack Chick - not a bad comparison - but he even hates Jack Chick (see link well down on the left side of the front page).

His only real heroes are the King James Bible and Billy Sunday, a turn of the 20th century preacher who was very well-known in his day. The funny thing about it is that, though Sunday was an evangelical who subscribed to a number of fundamentalist beliefs, he'd have been horrified by Stewart's website and likely by Stewart using him as support for his extreme beliefs.

Although, unlike the Reverend Billy Graham, Sunday was much more a fundamentalist, he routinely exhibited some of the same characteristics for which Dr Graham is notable and which were rare among the many hard-line Protestant preachers of his era. He declined to denounce other faiths (including Catholicism, which was the favorite target of Protestant preachers of that time) and he sent interest cards filled out by attendees at his revivals to the church with which they indicated themselves to be already affiliated (contrary to the usual practice of such preachers to use the contact info to create a faith community of their own). All in all, though a character and someone whose theology we'd find wrong-headed in most respects, Sunday stands out, in many ways, as a religious moderate among the circuit preachers of his time - a far cry from Mr Stewart, an extremist of the nth degree - who I think professes to be a non-denominational Baptist of some ilk - though it's been hard to tell over the years.  

Bottom line, the whole focus of his writing style is to delude one into thinking that they are wrong in what they believe versus what he believes. Sprinkle a bit of what seems like reasonable theological thought among the extremist points of view and, pretty soon, you start to focus on the former and your eyes glide over the latter. Walk away and don't look back.

Many years,

Neil
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 02:22:47 AM by Irish Melkite »
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Why do these people sound so convincing?
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2013, 02:23:06 AM »
Anastasia,

Take a glance at the front page of Stewart's site, it will help to dissuade you from believing that anything he writes is rational. The man has such an overwhelming reservoir of hatred within him that it's scary. LBK compared him to Jack Chick - not a bad comparison - but he even hates Jack Chick (see link well down on the left side of the front page).

His only real heroes are the King James Bible and Billy Sunday, a turn of the 20th century preacher who was very well-known in his day. The funny thing about it is that though Sunday was an evangelical who subscribed to a number of fundamentalist beliefs, he'd have been horrified by Stewart's website and likely by Stewart using him as support for his extreme beliefs.

Although, unlike the Reverend Billy Graham, Sunday was much more a fundamentalist, he routinely exhibited some of the same characteristics for which Dr Graham is notable and which were rare among the many hard-line Protestant preachers of his era. He declined to denounce other faiths (including Catholicism, which was the favorite target of Protestant preachers of that time) and he sent interest cards filled out by attendees at his revivals to the church with which they indicated themselves to be already affiliated (contrary to the usual practice of such preachers to use the contact info to create a faith community of their own). All in all, though a character and someone whose theology we'd find wrong-headed in most respects, Sunday stands out, in many ways, as a religious moderate among the circuit preachers of his time - a far cry from Mr Stewart, an extremist of the nth degree - who I think professes to be a non-denominational Baptist of some ilk - though it's been hard to tell over the years.  

Bottom line, the whole focus of his writing style is to delude one into thinking that they are wrong in what they believe versus what he believes. Sprinkle a bit of what seems like reasonable theological thought among the extremist points of view and, pretty soon, you start to focus on the former and your eyes glide over the latter. Walk away and don't look back.

Many years,

Neil
From the site:
Quote
King James Bible 1611
Orthodoxy 33
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Hawkeye

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Re: Why do these people sound so convincing?
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2013, 02:30:04 AM »
Take a glance at the front page of Stewart's site, it will help to dissuade you from believing that anything he writes is rational. The man has such an overwhelming reservoir of hatred within him that it's scary. LBK compared him to Jack Chick - not a bad comparison - but he even hates Jack Chick (see link well down on the left side of the front page).

Jack Chick is apparently preaching a different Gospel because he suggests that we turn from our sins. Oh the horror!

Every once in a while I stumble onto this site and then laugh my way out.
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Offline Anastasia1

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Re: Why do these people sound so convincing?
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2013, 03:05:31 AM »
Take a glance at the front page of Stewart's site, it will help to dissuade you from believing that anything he writes is rational. The man has such an overwhelming reservoir of hatred within him that it's scary. LBK compared him to Jack Chick - not a bad comparison - but he even hates Jack Chick (see link well down on the left side of the front page).

Jack Chick is apparently preaching a different Gospel because he suggests that we turn from our sins. Oh the horror!

Every once in a while I stumble onto this site and then laugh my way out.
My understanding is 1. that he says turn from our sins as in repent from them, and 2, that repenting is right and good for Christians to do.
Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation. (2 Cor 2:6)

Offline Anastasia1

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Re: Why do these people sound so convincing?
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2013, 03:07:23 AM »
Oh yes, I did not finish reading the article. But what is it about this type of writing? us v. them style?

I think that's part of it. Another issue is that the author mixes in legitimate points of concern with his nonsense. He complains about Jehovah's Witnesses, Unitarian Universalism, Scientology, people who deny the divinity of Jesus, etc. He points out things that the reader will agree are wrong, so he can build a sort of trust with the reader that he will be reliable in his other points.
Ah, thank you. I think you may be right about what is so seductive about such crazy articles.
Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation. (2 Cor 2:6)

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Re: Why do these people sound so convincing?
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2013, 09:03:34 AM »
Its good that they say to repent and turn to Christ. They should stop there though. The rest is silliness.

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Offline Anastasia1

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Re: Why do these people sound so convincing?
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2013, 02:00:21 PM »
Its good that they say to repent and turn to Christ. They should stop there though. The rest is silliness.

PP
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Re: Why do these people sound so convincing?
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2013, 02:37:11 PM »
I am reminded of the kerfuffle that came from that wretched "I love Jesus, but hate religion" video on Youtube that was a sensation among the simple some months ago, to which HG Bishop Youssef of the Southern United States Diocese of the Coptic Orthodox Church had a very good reply. Of course, in their misinformed zeal such people will probably not listen to anything anyone in the Orthodox Church has to say (or in any other church, from the looks of that guy's website), but it's the truth whether they want to hear it or not.

Offline Mamizous

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Re: Why do these people sound so convincing?
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2013, 02:41:47 PM »
I am reminded of the kerfuffle that came from that wretched "I love Jesus, but hate religion" video on Youtube that was a sensation among the simple some months ago, to which HG Bishop Youssef of the Southern United States Diocese of the Coptic Orthodox Church had a very good reply. Of course, in their misinformed zeal such people will probably not listen to anything anyone in the Orthodox Church has to say (or in any other church, from the looks of that guy's website), but it's the truth whether they want to hear it or not.

That video was incredibly painful for me to watch, to be honest.

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Re: Why do these people sound so convincing?
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2013, 03:24:08 PM »
I am reminded of the kerfuffle that came from that wretched "I love Jesus, but hate religion" video on Youtube that was a sensation among the simple some months ago, to which HG Bishop Youssef of the Southern United States Diocese of the Coptic Orthodox Church had a very good reply. Of course, in their misinformed zeal such people will probably not listen to anything anyone in the Orthodox Church has to say (or in any other church, from the looks of that guy's website), but it's the truth whether they want to hear it or not.

That video was incredibly painful for me to watch, to be honest.
The moment I watched it, I knew I was going to hate it.  I still don't know why some of my friends went crazy over it.
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Offline Mamizous

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Re: Why do these people sound so convincing?
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2013, 03:34:00 PM »
I am reminded of the kerfuffle that came from that wretched "I love Jesus, but hate religion" video on Youtube that was a sensation among the simple some months ago, to which HG Bishop Youssef of the Southern United States Diocese of the Coptic Orthodox Church had a very good reply. Of course, in their misinformed zeal such people will probably not listen to anything anyone in the Orthodox Church has to say (or in any other church, from the looks of that guy's website), but it's the truth whether they want to hear it or not.

That video was incredibly painful for me to watch, to be honest.
The moment I watched it, I knew I was going to hate it.  I still don't know why some of my friends went crazy over it.

Only reason I knew it existed was because of the Amazing Atheist's commentary on it.
Who is also rather cringe worthy to watch. Yet I can't help myself. Some sort of masochism.