Author Topic: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed  (Read 6649 times)

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Offline dzheremi

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #45 on: December 15, 2013, 07:49:54 PM »
I don't care enough and don't know enough about Islam to comment on this although most Muslim I met were really decent fellows. I'll just comment on the exoticism snide comment which is rich coming from someone that joined the Copts in California. Come on now, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Awww, Augustin...how sweet of you to care enough to follow me around the board to remind me of your opinion. Am I developing a Marxist shadow? :-*

Also "what's good for the geese is good for the gander" doesn't work here, as we're not talking about gender relations. Please learn what words mean before you use them.

And I did not join the Copts in California, and at any rate our liturgies are in English in this country (quite on purpose, too). Believe me, if we knew each other in person you'd know how little of that characterization fits my situation. I'm pretty sure my Arabic has actually gotten worse since becoming Coptic Orthodox, since I almost never use it (I learned it to whatever extent that I did in order to fulfill requirements for my degree; as a language, it's nice but nothing I felt particularly drawn to beyond the fact that it was offered and I've always wanted to learn a language with a right-to-left script to avoid some of the handwriting smudge problems that I encounter as a left-handed person). No, rather, the charge of exoticism can and is laid at the feet of the Islamic neophyte due to the tendency of such people, including Poppy, to pepper their otherwise English speech with Arabic-language Islamic honorifics, a steadfast refusal to use perfectly good English cognates for theological terms and labels (it's like it would take an act of GOD Himself to get such people to say GOD instead of Allah), etc. I believe someone else pointed this out in the last thread that Poppy made about her new religious choice (the "HRMMM HAR" one or whatever it was called), stating what most of us who have had any occasion to be among "reverts" (more Islamo-speak that we're just all just supposed to accept as not ridiculous) have also noticed, and I certainly noticed long before I ever knew what the Coptic Orthodox Church was (or is it also "exotic" for a person from a Catholic family to be Roman Catholic?): That newly-minted Muslims really take the LARPing thing to entirely new level when it comes to their use of language.

Ana Sahiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiih?

(or I guess I wanted to really LARP out, Sa7iiiiiiiiiii7)
« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 07:50:51 PM by dzheremi »

Offline minasoliman

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #46 on: December 15, 2013, 07:50:55 PM »
The reason why I'm downplaying contemplation, while it can be a good tool, it is not as important as prayer and communion with God.

Think of it this way:  there is more value in a poor and ignorant man (or as St. Paul says, foolish and weak) who spends his lifetime with God than a great scholar (strong and wise) who memorizes the whole Bible but has no room in His heart for God.
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Offline Mamizous

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #47 on: December 15, 2013, 07:54:57 PM »
The reason why I'm downplaying contemplation, while it can be a good tool, it is not as important as prayer and communion with God.

Think of it this way:  there is more value in a poor and ignorant man (or as St. Paul says, foolish and weak) who spends his lifetime with God than a great scholar (strong and wise) who memorizes the whole Bible but has no room in His heart for God.

True.
But I do not think contemplation itself is a direct distraction from prayer.

Offline biro

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #48 on: December 15, 2013, 07:58:59 PM »
Poppy, no offense but this is an Orthodox Christian site and I'm curious as to why you would expect us to go by Muslim standards here.
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Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #49 on: December 15, 2013, 08:19:47 PM »
Peace and blessings of Allah (swt) to all who are on the straight path.

Such as the nature and attributes of All Mighty Allah. They should just be accepted and thought upon with a lot of contemplation and gratitude. Not pulled apart and examined in the same way that people talk about common things.

Remember it is All Mighty The One Who Is Our Only Source of Everything In Life.

Sometimes people discuss things too flippant and common.

naouzobilah mn zalik (may Mighty Allah save us from doing that!)

 Of allah things to get worked up over, you picked this?   :-* 
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Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #50 on: December 15, 2013, 08:33:26 PM »
Poppy, no offense but this is an Orthodox Christian site and I'm curious as to why you would expect us to go by Muslim standards here.

  That's what they do.  They're not very inventive.  I mean, you'd think a Taliban would come up with a nom de guerre a little more original than "poppy".   ;)
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Offline dzheremi

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #51 on: December 15, 2013, 08:37:21 PM »
Careful with the kissy face, Gabriel...you don't want to Qu'ran a foul of Allah for breaking his strict rules against the mixing of the sexes...

(Dag-nabi-t, that was awful. I'm sorry.)

Edit: I change my mind from earlier; Arabic is pretty fun.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 08:38:15 PM by dzheremi »

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #52 on: December 15, 2013, 09:16:27 PM »
I don't care enough and don't know enough about Islam to comment on this although most Muslim I met were really decent fellows. I'll just comment on the exoticism snide comment which is rich coming from someone that joined the Copts in California. Come on now, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Awww, Augustin...how sweet of you to care enough to follow me around the board to remind me of your opinion. Am I developing a Marxist shadow? :-*

Also "what's good for the geese is good for the gander" doesn't work here, as we're not talking about gender relations. Please learn what words mean before you use them.

And I did not join the Copts in California, and at any rate our liturgies are in English in this country (quite on purpose, too). Believe me, if we knew each other in person you'd know how little of that characterization fits my situation. I'm pretty sure my Arabic has actually gotten worse since becoming Coptic Orthodox, since I almost never use it (I learned it to whatever extent that I did in order to fulfill requirements for my degree; as a language, it's nice but nothing I felt particularly drawn to beyond the fact that it was offered and I've always wanted to learn a language with a right-to-left script to avoid some of the handwriting smudge problems that I encounter as a left-handed person). No, rather, the charge of exoticism can and is laid at the feet of the Islamic neophyte due to the tendency of such people, including Poppy, to pepper their otherwise English speech with Arabic-language Islamic honorifics, a steadfast refusal to use perfectly good English cognates for theological terms and labels (it's like it would take an act of GOD Himself to get such people to say GOD instead of Allah), etc. I believe someone else pointed this out in the last thread that Poppy made about her new religious choice (the "HRMMM HAR" one or whatever it was called), stating what most of us who have had any occasion to be among "reverts" (more Islamo-speak that we're just all just supposed to accept as not ridiculous) have also noticed, and I certainly noticed long before I ever knew what the Coptic Orthodox Church was (or is it also "exotic" for a person from a Catholic family to be Roman Catholic?): That newly-minted Muslims really take the LARPing thing to entirely new level when it comes to their use of language.

Ana Sahiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiih?

(or I guess I wanted to really LARP out, Sa7iiiiiiiiiii7)
You're left handed too?

btw, there is something to compare this strange English with: in Persian, 90% Muslim, they call "God" "God" ("khoda" to be specific).

Yes, there is a lot of Arabic borrowing, but that's because Arabic plays the role that Latin and Greek does in English.  So all this tossing about of Arabic just results in jargon.  It doesn't Islamicize the language, just makes it incomprehensible to non-Muslims.

As for augustine's swipe at the Copts, most of them don't call DL "Divine Liturghy."  They say "Mass."
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Offline dzheremi

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #53 on: December 15, 2013, 09:46:05 PM »
True on all counts, Isa. There was a Persian guy who used to live in my apartment building back in Oregon. Everything was "Khoda hafez" this, "khoda hafez" that... :) I like Persians. From my limited experience, they and Somalis tend(ed) to be much more pragmatic about their religion...not sure how much that has changed in the intervening years, what with the Somalis in MN getting mixed up with Al-Shabab...

Anyway, I'm fine with Arabic being (in) anybody's language, obviously. It's just funny to read and hear from self-described "reverts" all this Arabish nonsense and then to have them turn around and say that their religion is for all mankind or that they're not putting on airs...it's more than I could even manage in Coptic or Egyptian Arabic (predictably, my year of classes was in MSA), even if the people at church had ever put any pressure on me to do so, which they haven't. One of them asked me to teach him how to read Coptic once, but that's about it. Usually it's the other way around and one of the aunties will corner me after the Agape meal and ask me for the millionth time if I'm really, really okay with everyone speaking Arabic around me. I always say yes, since what else would I expect Egyptians to speak with one another? It's enough that they have adopted English for ~80% of the liturgy (a percentage they basically don't tamper with, even though I'm the only native English-speaker who regularly attends), in an effort to bring the faith to all nations, including their adopted homeland. Geez...you'd think we were Christians or something... ::)

Offline RehamG

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #54 on: December 16, 2013, 12:29:39 AM »
Gonna watch and see if this thread metastasizes like the other one did.....
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Offline primuspilus

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #55 on: December 16, 2013, 09:14:37 AM »
This thread is fantastic. I should really heat up some bacon and watch this trainwreck.

PP
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 09:17:36 AM by primuspilus »
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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #56 on: December 16, 2013, 09:25:40 AM »
This thread is fantastic. I should really heat up some bacon and watch this trainwreck.

PP

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Offline primuspilus

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #57 on: December 16, 2013, 09:28:49 AM »
This thread is fantastic. I should really heat up some bacon and watch this trainwreck.

PP

In times like these, ready-to-eat bacon is essential.
I would snag some in all of its instant salty goodness, but Advent and all......(WRO)

PP
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 09:29:09 AM by primuspilus »
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Offline Schultz

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #58 on: December 16, 2013, 09:35:51 AM »
I don't care enough and don't know enough about Islam to comment on this although most Muslim I met were really decent fellows. I'll just comment on the exoticism snide comment which is rich coming from someone that joined the Copts in California. Come on now, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Also "what's good for the geese is good for the gander" doesn't work here, as we're not talking about gender relations. Please learn what words mean before you use them.


PErhaps you should look up the term "idiom."
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 09:36:55 AM by Schultz »
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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #59 on: December 16, 2013, 10:56:30 AM »
No, rather, the charge of exoticism can and is laid at the feet of the Islamic neophyte due to the tendency of such people, including Poppy, to pepper their otherwise English speech with Arabic-language Islamic honorifics, a steadfast refusal to use perfectly good English cognates for theological terms and labels (it's like it would take an act of GOD Himself to get such people to say GOD instead of Allah), etc. I believe someone else pointed this out in the last thread that Poppy made about her new religious choice (the "HRMMM HAR" one or whatever it was called), stating what most of us who have had any occasion to be among "reverts" (more Islamo-speak that we're just all just supposed to accept as not ridiculous) have also noticed, and I certainly noticed long before I ever knew what the Coptic Orthodox Church was (or is it also "exotic" for a person from a Catholic family to be Roman Catholic?): That newly-minted Muslims really take the LARPing thing to entirely new level when it comes to their use of language.

Matushka trisagion hesychast proskemedia theotokos akathist apophatic orarion theosis. Endless insider jargon in Orthodoxy.

Offline Altar Server

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #60 on: December 16, 2013, 11:08:01 AM »
This thread is fantastic. I should really heat up some bacon and watch this trainwreck.

PP
Bacon sounds really good all of a sudden.....darn Nativity fast  :P
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 11:09:30 AM by Altar Server »
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Offline Mamizous

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #61 on: December 16, 2013, 11:10:11 AM »
I consider it a blessing that I dislike bacon. :)

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #62 on: December 16, 2013, 11:29:07 AM »
I consider it a blessing that I dislike bacon. :)

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Offline augustin717

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #63 on: December 16, 2013, 03:35:59 PM »
I bet, it's a bit more common, from a cultural point of view/frequency/ people being somehow aware of it-in the west for folks to "revert" to islam than to a middle eastern confession. just saying.
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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #64 on: December 16, 2013, 03:44:05 PM »
No, rather, the charge of exoticism can and is laid at the feet of the Islamic neophyte due to the tendency of such people, including Poppy, to pepper their otherwise English speech with Arabic-language Islamic honorifics, a steadfast refusal to use perfectly good English cognates for theological terms and labels (it's like it would take an act of GOD Himself to get such people to say GOD instead of Allah), etc. I believe someone else pointed this out in the last thread that Poppy made about her new religious choice (the "HRMMM HAR" one or whatever it was called), stating what most of us who have had any occasion to be among "reverts" (more Islamo-speak that we're just all just supposed to accept as not ridiculous) have also noticed, and I certainly noticed long before I ever knew what the Coptic Orthodox Church was (or is it also "exotic" for a person from a Catholic family to be Roman Catholic?): That newly-minted Muslims really take the LARPing thing to entirely new level when it comes to their use of language.

Matushka trisagion hesychast proskemedia theotokos akathist apophatic orarion theosis. Endless insider jargon in Orthodoxy.

The funny thing is that most of these are Finnish words too. Welcome to Orthodoxy.
I just need to find out how to say it in Slavonic!

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #65 on: December 16, 2013, 04:08:44 PM »
The reason why I'm downplaying contemplation, while it can be a good tool, it is not as important as prayer and communion with God.

Think of it this way:  there is more value in a poor and ignorant man (or as St. Paul says, foolish and weak) who spends his lifetime with God than a great scholar (strong and wise) who memorizes the whole Bible but has no room in His heart for God.

You do appreciate the Pauline irony though? I am not sure Paul is properly understood till his irony is understood.

Offline dzheremi

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #66 on: December 16, 2013, 04:15:46 PM »
No, rather, the charge of exoticism can and is laid at the feet of the Islamic neophyte due to the tendency of such people, including Poppy, to pepper their otherwise English speech with Arabic-language Islamic honorifics, a steadfast refusal to use perfectly good English cognates for theological terms and labels (it's like it would take an act of GOD Himself to get such people to say GOD instead of Allah), etc. I believe someone else pointed this out in the last thread that Poppy made about her new religious choice (the "HRMMM HAR" one or whatever it was called), stating what most of us who have had any occasion to be among "reverts" (more Islamo-speak that we're just all just supposed to accept as not ridiculous) have also noticed, and I certainly noticed long before I ever knew what the Coptic Orthodox Church was (or is it also "exotic" for a person from a Catholic family to be Roman Catholic?): That newly-minted Muslims really take the LARPing thing to entirely new level when it comes to their use of language.

Matushka trisagion hesychast proskemedia theotokos akathist apophatic orarion theosis. Endless insider jargon in Orthodoxy.

Yes, and people who make a point of overusing those words in mixed company without explaining them or who get defensive when this tendency to "Orthodoxize" their vocabulary is pointed out as being harmful to their spreading the message of Orthodox Christianity in an effective way are essentially just as bad as new Muslims who suddenly adopt Arab ways and language because they think it makes them better practitioners of their religion or gets them closer to God (er, pardon, ALLAH AL-WAHID, AL-SAMAD, PBUH SWT SAWS OPEC UIC ATM EIEIO QED ET AL ETC) or whatever. I have no trouble calling my priest Fr. Marcus or Abouna Marcos, depending on context, but remember where we are: An Orthodox Christian message board, where our Ortho-babble at least has a context. There is no context for Islamic nonsense here, and Poppy did not bother to provide a context.  If I went to an Islamic message board, even one in Arabic, and started topics by writing "Bismil Ab wel Ibn wel Ruh al-Quddus, al-Ilahu il-Wahid" and then proceeded to fill my posts with declarative statements regarding what Christianity says we are and are not to do, I would be fully expect to be taken to task for at least not having fully thought out the repercussions of what I posted. I might even be banned. I don't think Poppy should be banned at all, but come on...it is fully understandable that other people here would see this as part of a recurring pattern whereby she posts Islamic nonsense and the rest of us say "Nah...that's not what we're about; you're being silly and look like a A+ LARPer with this sort of thing." That's not ignoring the reality of Christian or Islam-specific lingo at all. That's telling a person they're being ridiculous when they post things that are pointless in the context of this message board.

Offline minasoliman

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #67 on: December 16, 2013, 04:25:00 PM »
The reason why I'm downplaying contemplation, while it can be a good tool, it is not as important as prayer and communion with God.

Think of it this way:  there is more value in a poor and ignorant man (or as St. Paul says, foolish and weak) who spends his lifetime with God than a great scholar (strong and wise) who memorizes the whole Bible but has no room in His heart for God.

You do appreciate the Pauline irony though? I am not sure Paul is properly understood till his irony is understood.

I appreciate it in my own way, sort of humbling for me.  But when it comes to Paul, I could contemplate (uh oh...lol) and think of his Damascus experience and realize how his conversion was because of those who were of a much more humbling level than he is and because of a Christ who he previously saw as a weakness, foolishness, and stumbling block before his conversion.
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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #68 on: December 16, 2013, 05:01:49 PM »
There are some Russian words that my droogs and I use in regular conversation.  One of them sounds kinda like the acronym for Sturzkampfflugzeug. 

I would like to say it is an Orthodox LARPing thing, but it is probably a bit more Clockwork than that.  Except for the Sturzkampfflugzeug one.  That one is just because it is funner than even our English work for it. 
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Offline Poppy

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #69 on: December 16, 2013, 06:18:38 PM »
Poppy, why are you here?

I have been here a long time, before I was reverted. If you actual read my posts you would know the answer to that. I'm not repeating it every time some lazyass asks me.

And it's not like I am interrupting some amazing thread discussions on oc is it? Like really! have you looked at most of the new threads on here? Hardly blow you away uh?

I have read your posts, and you frequently dodge that question, as you have now.  If you would read my replies to your previous posts, you would know that.

And I would appreciate it if you did not insinuate that I was lazy.

I ask again, why are you here?  I have my suspicions, but I would rather hear why you think you are here.

If you're just here to lecture us on how we should do things, bring us to the "straight path," or show off your awesome new Arab terms, then I'll mind my own business and skip your threads.  But I happen to know a good bit about Islam, albeit not the extremely narrow version you have chosen to be exposed to, and I generally find topics you've brought up interesting.  

But if you would like to be defensive and hostile while illuminating us with your wisdom on this Orthodox Christian board, expect some pushback.  

Look, I never claimed that I know a lot about Islam as I am only a new revert a few months. Before that, I did learn some Arabic to be able to read the Qur'an and since mixing with people at masjid, I have got way better at general Arabic communication as most there speak it and only a few speak other languages. Also, in our classes for women, we are encouraged to use the correct terms in the Qur'an because in English, they don't mean the same.

I posted a thread about the incarnation and some questions that were unanswered in my mind. I didn't feel comfortable asking my teacher at my classes and so I asked here. I remembered here from a couple years ago when I was on here looking into Christianity.

idc whether you believe me or not or even what your suspicions are about my motives, it's irrelevant.

Sorry about the lazyass thing, that was lame of me.

Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #70 on: December 16, 2013, 06:25:51 PM »
Also, in our classes for women, we are encouraged to use the correct terms in the Qur'an because in English, they don't mean the same.


For instance?
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #71 on: December 16, 2013, 06:34:11 PM »
masjid

Do you mean a mosque?

Poppy I listen to and read a ton of stuff about Islam and have lived in Muslim majority populations.

Only reverts go on like this.

The word is mosque, why do you use masjid? Perhaps in England this is know an "English" word but it still grates at least on American ears.

The goofy would be Greeks, and Slavs, and Copts around here are just as annoying, but I am directing to you.

Why not mosque?

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #72 on: December 16, 2013, 06:35:50 PM »
There are some Russian words that my droogs and I use in regular conversation.  One of them sounds kinda like the acronym for Sturzkampfflugzeug.  

I would like to say it is an Orthodox LARPing thing, but it is probably a bit more Clockwork than that.  Except for the Sturzkampfflugzeug one.  That one is just because it is funner than even our English work for it.  

Trust me, go with larping. It fits most of your posts here.  
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 06:36:03 PM by orthonorm »

Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #73 on: December 16, 2013, 06:40:46 PM »
masjid

Do you mean a mosque?

Poppy I listen to and read a ton of stuff about Islam and have lived in Muslim majority populations.

Only reverts go on like this.

The word is mosque, why do you use masjid? Perhaps in England this is know an "English" word but it still grates at least on American ears.

The goofy would be Greeks, and Slavs, and Copts around here are just as annoying, but I am directing to you.

Why not mosque?

Basically, masjid means place of worship (where people do homage/sajda). However, in some countries masjid is an Islamic place of worship without minarets, thus different from a mosque.
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Offline Poppy

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #74 on: December 16, 2013, 06:58:02 PM »
Poppy, no offense but this is an Orthodox Christian site and I'm curious as to why you would expect us to go by Muslim standards here.

Biro, this isn't a Muslim thing which is why I brought it up. It's a problem with Christian and Muslim religions as I said before. I posted this thread more to get agreement on the issue than to preach at Christians. That wasn't where I was coming from at all.

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #75 on: December 16, 2013, 07:20:01 PM »
masjid

Do you mean a mosque?

Poppy I listen to and read a ton of stuff about Islam and have lived in Muslim majority populations.

Only reverts go on like this.

The word is mosque, why do you use masjid? Perhaps in England this is know an "English" word but it still grates at least on American ears.

The goofy would be Greeks, and Slavs, and Copts around here are just as annoying, but I am directing to you.

Why not mosque?

Basically, masjid means place of worship (where people do homage/sajda). However, in some countries masjid is an Islamic place of worship without minarets, thus different from a mosque.

I wasn't asking you. And if I were, this is about as incoherent a response as I could hope to get. Thanks for not disappointing me.

Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #76 on: December 16, 2013, 07:27:45 PM »
masjid

Do you mean a mosque?

Poppy I listen to and read a ton of stuff about Islam and have lived in Muslim majority populations.

Only reverts go on like this.

The word is mosque, why do you use masjid? Perhaps in England this is know an "English" word but it still grates at least on American ears.

The goofy would be Greeks, and Slavs, and Copts around here are just as annoying, but I am directing to you.

Why not mosque?

Basically, masjid means place of worship (where people do homage/sajda). However, in some countries masjid is an Islamic place of worship without minarets, thus different from a mosque.

I wasn't asking you. And if I were, this is about as incoherent a response as I could hope to get. Thanks for not disappointing me.

Sorry, I had forgotten that ignorance and arrogance sounded similar.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #77 on: December 16, 2013, 07:31:55 PM »
No, rather, the charge of exoticism can and is laid at the feet of the Islamic neophyte due to the tendency of such people, including Poppy, to pepper their otherwise English speech with Arabic-language Islamic honorifics, a steadfast refusal to use perfectly good English cognates for theological terms and labels (it's like it would take an act of GOD Himself to get such people to say GOD instead of Allah), etc. I believe someone else pointed this out in the last thread that Poppy made about her new religious choice (the "HRMMM HAR" one or whatever it was called), stating what most of us who have had any occasion to be among "reverts" (more Islamo-speak that we're just all just supposed to accept as not ridiculous) have also noticed, and I certainly noticed long before I ever knew what the Coptic Orthodox Church was (or is it also "exotic" for a person from a Catholic family to be Roman Catholic?): That newly-minted Muslims really take the LARPing thing to entirely new level when it comes to their use of language.

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Offline RehamG

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #78 on: December 16, 2013, 08:20:36 PM »
Look, I never claimed that I know a lot about Islam as I am only a new revert a few months.
[/quote]

But yet you think know enough to tout that some topics about Allah shouldn't be discussed....

(Why is my quote thingy not working for me today at all....sigh.)
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 08:23:39 PM by RehamG »
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Offline biro

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #79 on: December 16, 2013, 09:40:13 PM »
Poppy, no offense but this is an Orthodox Christian site and I'm curious as to why you would expect us to go by Muslim standards here.

Biro, this isn't a Muslim thing which is why I brought it up. It's a problem with Christian and Muslim religions as I said before. I posted this thread more to get agreement on the issue than to preach at Christians. That wasn't where I was coming from at all.

Okay. :)
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #80 on: December 17, 2013, 01:26:37 AM »
masjid

Do you mean a mosque?

Poppy I listen to and read a ton of stuff about Islam and have lived in Muslim majority populations.

Only reverts go on like this.

The word is mosque, why do you use masjid? Perhaps in England this is know an "English" word but it still grates at least on American ears.

The goofy would be Greeks, and Slavs, and Copts around here are just as annoying, but I am directing to you.

Why not mosque?

Basically, masjid means place of worship (where people do homage/sajda). However, in some countries masjid is an Islamic place of worship without minarets, thus different from a mosque.

I wasn't asking you. And if I were, this is about as incoherent a response as I could hope to get. Thanks for not disappointing me.

Sorry, I had forgotten that ignorance and arrogance sounded similar.

+1
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Offline Poppy

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #81 on: December 17, 2013, 10:33:48 AM »
Quote from: Poppy
Look, I never claimed that I know a lot about Islam as I am only a new revert a few months.

But yet you think know enough to tout that some topics about Allah shouldn't be discussed....

(Why is my quote thingy not working for me today at all....sigh.)
(answer = because you don't know "enough" about quote thingy's

Sure. I know enough to know that the fear/respect of Allah, subhana wa ta ala,  is paramount and only a fool would speak about the nature of The All Mighty in a common and casual a way as we talk about anything else in this world. As if absolutely everything in this life can come under our scrutiny and understanding, even that which is holy.

The bible says it is the beginning of wisdom. I am at the beginning of knowledge so, it's really appropriate that I know at least that much isn't it? I would consider at least that much to be "enough" yea.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 10:36:27 AM by Poppy »

Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #82 on: December 17, 2013, 10:54:35 AM »

 of Allah, subhana wa ta ala,  

 English, please.
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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #83 on: December 17, 2013, 11:22:04 AM »
Quote from: Poppy
Look, I never claimed that I know a lot about Islam as I am only a new revert a few months.

But yet you think know enough to tout that some topics about Allah shouldn't be discussed....

(Why is my quote thingy not working for me today at all....sigh.)
(answer = because you don't know "enough" about quote thingy's

Sure. I know enough to know that the fear/respect of Allah, subhana wa ta ala,  is paramount and only a fool would speak about the nature of The All Mighty in a common and casual a way as we talk about anything else in this world. As if absolutely everything in this life can come under our scrutiny and understanding, even that which is holy.

The bible says it is the beginning of wisdom. I am at the beginning of knowledge so, it's really appropriate that I know at least that much isn't it? I would consider at least that much to be "enough" yea.

There is a difference between fearing a God that demands submission and fearing a God who invites you to know Him.
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Offline Altar Server

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #84 on: December 17, 2013, 11:49:38 AM »
Quote from: Poppy
Look, I never claimed that I know a lot about Islam as I am only a new revert a few months.

But yet you think know enough to tout that some topics about Allah shouldn't be discussed....

(Why is my quote thingy not working for me today at all....sigh.)
(answer = because you don't know "enough" about quote thingy's

Sure. I know enough to know that the fear/respect of Allah, subhana wa ta ala,  is paramount and only a fool would speak about the nature of The All Mighty in a common and casual a way as we talk about anything else in this world. As if absolutely everything in this life can come under our scrutiny and understanding, even that which is holy.

The bible says it is the beginning of wisdom. I am at the beginning of knowledge so, it's really appropriate that I know at least that much isn't it? I would consider at least that much to be "enough" yea.

"This is the way we should see Christ. He is our friend, our brother; He is whatever is good and beautiful. He is everything. Yet, He is still a friend and He shouts it out, “You’re my friends, don’t you understand that? We’re brothers. I’m not…I don’t hold hell in my hands. I am not threatening you. I love you. I want you to enjoy life together with me.”-St. Porphyrios

To me this quote says volumes. Yes fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, and we as Christians should fear God because He is the creator and judge of all things. That being said however in the Christian tradition God became a man and assumed our nature in every way but sin, so He is our brother and He called us His friends. God calls us into a relationship with Himself and loves us  more than we can fathom, so at some level Christians can show a familiarity with God because they are in a relationship with Him, they know Him, they are His friends, His brothers and sisters, we can know God, we can talk about God because He became a man in the person of Jesus Christ, yes we should speak about Him with respect, but I don't think there is anything about him we shouldn't talk about.
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Offline Poppy

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #85 on: December 17, 2013, 02:03:27 PM »

 of Allah, subhana wa ta ala,  

 English, please.

I put a explanation earlier already.

You all post axios and other such words so, you need to first check out your own eyeball.

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #86 on: December 17, 2013, 02:12:00 PM »
So what are the topics you want people to feel that shouldn't be discussed about Allah, Poppy?  "Nature and attributes" is a vague phrase.  Or are you not allowed to discuss it?
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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #87 on: December 17, 2013, 02:13:40 PM »

 of Allah, subhana wa ta ala,  

 English, please.

I put a explanation earlier already.

You all post axios and other such words so, you need to first check out your own eyeball.

As this is an Orthodox board and axios is used across a variety of jurisdictions its meaning is well known(and there have been times when people have asked for the meaning and have been given it) The majority of posters here do not speak Arabic nor are they muslims so subhana wa ta ala  is not a well known phrase....instead of getting defensive it might be easier to re explain the meaning for those of us who did not see your original post about it
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Offline Poppy

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #88 on: December 17, 2013, 02:18:09 PM »
No, rather, the charge of exoticism can and is laid at the feet of the Islamic neophyte due to the tendency of such people, including Poppy, to pepper their otherwise English speech with Arabic-language Islamic honorifics, a steadfast refusal to use perfectly good English cognates for theological terms and labels (it's like it would take an act of GOD Himself to get such people to say GOD instead of Allah), etc. I believe someone else pointed this out in the last thread that Poppy made about her new religious choice (the "HRMMM HAR" one or whatever it was called), stating what most of us who have had any occasion to be among "reverts" (more Islamo-speak that we're just all just supposed to accept as not ridiculous) have also noticed, and I certainly noticed long before I ever knew what the Coptic Orthodox Church was (or is it also "exotic" for a person from a Catholic family to be Roman Catholic?): That newly-minted Muslims really take the LARPing thing to entirely new level when it comes to their use of language.

Matushka trisagion hesychast proskemedia theotokos akathist apophatic orarion theosis. Endless insider jargon in Orthodoxy.

Yes, and people who make a point of overusing those words in mixed company without explaining them or who get defensive when this tendency to "Orthodoxize" their vocabulary is pointed out as being harmful to their spreading the message of Orthodox Christianity in an effective way are essentially just as bad as new Muslims who suddenly adopt Arab ways and language because they think it makes them better practitioners of their religion or gets them closer to God (er, pardon, ALLAH AL-WAHID, AL-SAMAD, PBUH SWT SAWS OPEC UIC ATM EIEIO QED ET AL ETC) or whatever. I have no trouble calling my priest Fr. Marcus or Abouna Marcos, depending on context, but remember where we are: An Orthodox Christian message board, where our Ortho-babble at least has a context. There is no context for Islamic nonsense here, and Poppy did not bother to provide a context.  If I went to an Islamic message board, even one in Arabic, and started topics by writing "Bismil Ab wel Ibn wel Ruh al-Quddus, al-Ilahu il-Wahid" and then proceeded to fill my posts with declarative statements regarding what Christianity says we are and are not to do, I would be fully expect to be taken to task for at least not having fully thought out the repercussions of what I posted. I might even be banned. I don't think Poppy should be banned at all, but come on...it is fully understandable that other people here would see this as part of a recurring pattern whereby she posts Islamic nonsense and the rest of us say "Nah...that's not what we're about; you're being silly and look like a A+ LARPer with this sort of thing." That's not ignoring the reality of Christian or Islam-specific lingo at all. That's telling a person they're being ridiculous when they post things that are pointless in the context of this message board.

Please don't assume you know why I use certain words. It's not a closer to God thing or a cool thing or any other thing you have supposed. We are instructed this as reverts to be seriously important.

Maybe (and it's just a educated guess), why cradle Muslims don't do this is because they are brought up mostly total relaxed about their religion as it is completely a part of their whole life structure. But reverts are instructed by the most fervent, serious-minded Muslims who are quite often soely interested in turning people towards Islam and they tell you EVERYTHING that is important, to the smallest intention in your heart and the way in which you should show the greatest respect to Allah in your speech.

It is only for my benefit that I do as instructed, I need to always do what I know the Qur'an, ahadith and also sunnah gives me guidance to do - no matter how badly others think of (or talk about) me for doing so.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 02:18:43 PM by Poppy »

Offline Mamizous

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Re: Some topics about Allah (swt) should not be pulled apart and discussed
« Reply #89 on: December 17, 2013, 02:30:05 PM »
Back on the main topic and original post, though, which topics pertaining to Allah shouldn't be discussed, or 'pulled apart'? Regardless of any terminology you use, for whatever reason you use it.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 02:30:39 PM by Mamizous »