Author Topic: Split-off from Orthodoxy and Polygamy  (Read 1253 times)

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Offline Punch

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« on: December 05, 2013, 02:50:29 PM »
How come I haven't seen a woman with multiple husbands?

Some women get paid by the hour, and some under a long term contract.  The former are called prostitutes and the latter are called wives.  I believe that are referring to the former.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline orthonorm

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« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2013, 03:03:42 PM »
How come I haven't seen a woman with multiple husbands?

Some women get paid by the hour, and some under a long term contract.  The former are called prostitutes and the latter are called wives.  I believe that are referring to the former.

And with that . . .

Punch
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Online Justin Kissel

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« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2013, 03:04:58 PM »
How come I haven't seen a woman with multiple husbands?

If you want some links to sites where such relationships are discussed (and sometimes pursued) PM me.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2013, 03:07:03 PM »
Let's return to the topic. 

Thanks,

Mor

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New thread topic.  Rate the sexual attractiveness of members of OC.net on a scale of 1-10.

Mor Ephrem: 11/10

Online Justin Kissel

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« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2013, 03:30:46 PM »
I thought that's what we were talking about.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2013, 03:55:25 PM »
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

New thread topic.  Rate the sexual attractiveness of members of OC.net on a scale of 1-10.

Mor Ephrem: 11/10

Offline Punch

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« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2013, 04:06:15 PM »
I thought that's what we were talking about.

Just to refresh everyone's memory...

Well, since this is not green, I will comment.  I think that we understand the topic.  Not sure you do.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

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« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2013, 07:06:20 PM »
How come I haven't seen a woman with multiple husbands?

Some women get paid by the hour, and some under a long term contract.  The former are called prostitutes and the latter are called wives.  I believe that are referring to the former.

At least with the former, you get what you pay for with no strings attached (unless you like it that way), whereas in the case of the latter, you are paying more than you ought to pay for way less than you ought to be getting in return.

Like I said earlier,

I can see the institution of marriage breaking down in the West in favor of a looser form of extended prostitution or "temporary marriage" (apparently the P-word offends many people) where people legally hook up for a period ranging from a few months to a few years. Let's face it: marriage is expensive & tough in this world. And most men--contrary to what some may think--can't stay 100% celibate until they are almost 30. At least in the case of temporary marriage, both parties get what they want at an affordable rate and they don't have to deal with bad break-ups and emotional heartbreaks.

That being said, if most people can't afford even one wife, I'm not sure if polygamy would even be a problem for the Orthodox Church anymore today, save maybe in a few societies. A bigger problem is how the Church wants to deal with the growing difficulty of getting married nowadays if it still expects its parishioners to wait until marriage. One thing is going to budge; I just don't know which. Either the Church's morality on sex is going to budge and change (even more so than it already has) or Western society is going to change.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 07:09:23 PM by JamesR »
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
In the infinite wisdom of God, James can be all three.

Offline ZealousZeal

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« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2013, 07:45:16 PM »
How come I haven't seen a woman with multiple husbands?

Some women get paid by the hour, and some under a long term contract.  The former are called prostitutes and the latter are called wives.  I believe that are referring to the former.

At least with the former, you get what you pay for with no strings attached (unless you like it that way), whereas in the case of the latter, you are paying more than you ought to pay for way less than you ought to be getting in return.

A 17 year old's exposition on the value of wives. What a treat for everyone!
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Offline orthonorm

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« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2013, 07:48:43 PM »
How come I haven't seen a woman with multiple husbands?

Some women get paid by the hour, and some under a long term contract.  The former are called prostitutes and the latter are called wives.  I believe that are referring to the former.

At least with the former, you get what you pay for with no strings attached (unless you like it that way), whereas in the case of the latter, you are paying more than you ought to pay for way less than you ought to be getting in return.

A 17 year old's exposition on the value of wives. What a treat for everyone!

Who is the 17 year old?
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Offline biro

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« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2013, 08:55:10 PM »
How come I haven't seen a woman with multiple husbands?

Some women get paid by the hour, and some under a long term contract.  The former are called prostitutes and the latter are called wives.  I believe that are referring to the former.

At least with the former, you get what you pay for with no strings attached (unless you like it that way), whereas in the case of the latter, you are paying more than you ought to pay for way less than you ought to be getting in return.

A 17 year old's exposition on the value of wives. What a treat for everyone!

Who is the 17 year old?

James.

Offline orthonorm

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« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2013, 09:20:37 PM »
How come I haven't seen a woman with multiple husbands?

Some women get paid by the hour, and some under a long term contract.  The former are called prostitutes and the latter are called wives.  I believe that are referring to the former.

At least with the former, you get what you pay for with no strings attached (unless you like it that way), whereas in the case of the latter, you are paying more than you ought to pay for way less than you ought to be getting in return.

A 17 year old's exposition on the value of wives. What a treat for everyone!

Who is the 17 year old?

James.

OK. So he has an excuse. And you women are going to let Punch walk away with that misogynist tripe? I really can't keep sticking up for women around here without looking patronizing, if you all are going to single out JamesR for some odd reason when he post and Punch and Son get away with well . . . all have read it.
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Offline orthonorm

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« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2013, 09:22:42 PM »
A hard penis has no conscience, and it never has.  


You know you sorta redeemed yourself yet again. I shouldn't be so quick to judge. Your representation of men is nearly as sick as that of women.

Congrats on that.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 09:22:57 PM by orthonorm »
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Offline Ebor

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« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2013, 09:27:56 PM »
JamesR - your knowledge of marriage is limited and not from a personal experience. 

And would you apply the "P-word" to the males who engage in such behaviour?  Or is that just for females?

 
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 09:31:45 PM by Ebor »
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2013, 09:28:10 PM »
How come I haven't seen a woman with multiple husbands?

Some women get paid by the hour, and some under a long term contract.  The former are called prostitutes and the latter are called wives.  I believe that are referring to the former.

At least with the former, you get what you pay for with no strings attached (unless you like it that way), whereas in the case of the latter, you are paying more than you ought to pay for way less than you ought to be getting in return.

Like I said earlier,

I can see the institution of marriage breaking down in the West in favor of a looser form of extended prostitution or "temporary marriage" (apparently the P-word offends many people) where people legally hook up for a period ranging from a few months to a few years. Let's face it: marriage is expensive & tough in this world. And most men--contrary to what some may think--can't stay 100% celibate until they are almost 30. At least in the case of temporary marriage, both parties get what they want at an affordable rate and they don't have to deal with bad break-ups and emotional heartbreaks.

That being said, if most people can't afford even one wife, I'm not sure if polygamy would even be a problem for the Orthodox Church anymore today, save maybe in a few societies. A bigger problem is how the Church wants to deal with the growing difficulty of getting married nowadays if it still expects its parishioners to wait until marriage. One thing is going to budge; I just don't know which. Either the Church's morality on sex is going to budge and change (even more so than it already has) or Western society is going to change.

James, I can't really speak in authority on marrying an Eastern Orthodox Christian, but only the experience with my wife.  My wife was raised in a conservative Mennonite church.... However, despite the theological differences, I do believe that many Eastern Orthodox Christian women have very good conservative values.

See, I'm reading the word "afford" and a lot of talk about money in what you are saying.  I believe that you are seeing too many non-content women as examples.  Not being content, IS a sin...

Believe it or not, there are women in this world that will be very content in what you provide them.  Even simplicity.  Some would be happy to shop at Thrift stores, or sew for their children.  Some are happy to be frugal, and don't want a large expensive home or vehicle.   Some don't want to compete with other women.  Some don't expect you to work till you are beat to death, and still complain for more.

I'm serious when I say, some women really just want to be loved and cared for, and don't expect for you to give them a luxury life.

I personally experience this with my wife.   I provide, but she is happy with what she gets, nor does she want more.  We try to teach these values to our children as well.   We even joke about it when we pass by jewelry in the store - "Hey, you want me to buy you a $1500 ring?".... Her reply looking at me crazy "umm, they can keep it".  

Marriage is not over-rated.  It is a sacrament in the EO church, and loved by many Eastern Orthodox Christians worldwide.  

Marriage can be an absolute blessing James.  

In context of Polygamy (more than one spouse at once), I can't imagine something like that in my life, because honestly, I am content with my wife and don't want any more.

Adultery/fornication, are all sins that lead to destruction.

I wonder if the quote from St. Basil was not speaking against Polygamy (more than one spouse at once), then where are the Canons of the EO church forbidding it?  Surely there must be right?

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Offline biro

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« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2013, 09:30:27 PM »
Most of these threads I don't even check into anymore, because I can tell how bad they're going to be. Punch is pretty much the same anywhere, as is James, as was Stashko except for the prayer forum. My Mom once told me that when you see dog poop in the street, you don't talk to it and tell it not to be dog poop. You step over it.

Besides, didn't you, orthonorm, tell us not too long ago to ignore bad posts? And when I complained about the rudeness on the board, I was told off over the course of several posts. And you, orthonorm, keep defending James and saying he is 'awesome.'

Do you understand what the problem was? Do you get it now?

Offline orthonorm

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« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2013, 11:01:34 PM »
Most of these threads I don't even check into anymore, because I can tell how bad they're going to be. Punch is pretty much the same anywhere, as is James, as was Stashko except for the prayer forum. My Mom once told me that when you see dog poop in the street, you don't talk to it and tell it not to be dog poop. You step over it.

Besides, didn't you, orthonorm, tell us not too long ago to ignore bad posts? And when I complained about the rudeness on the board, I was told off over the course of several posts. And you, orthonorm, keep defending James and saying he is 'awesome.'

Do you understand what the problem was? Do you get it now?

JamesR is awesome. And you should likely ignore him. And Shiny. Any well, I'll not go on.

Punch doesn't hover posting hundreds of posts per week. His post is hardly "rude" in any sense as I understand it. It is just simply distasteful to women in my opinion and I would most women. And someone ought to offer another POV, cause you gotta remember other people read these threads as well. And if a thread seems univocally patronizing to women, well you can figure what conclusions might be drawn.

IOW, Punch is not an attention seeking poster here. I like a lot of what he posts. Heck, I love what he posts and think he has an excellent voice. His views on women, not so much.
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Offline ZealousZeal

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« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2013, 12:19:08 AM »
All this talk about the proper way to treat women is bringing me back to the Sauron days. /nostalgia
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« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2013, 02:07:20 AM »
And would you apply the "P-word" to the males who engage in such behaviour?  Or is that just for females?

It goes for males as well; except, I'd take the P-word as a compliment. Have you ever hung out around prostitutes? When you get past the disease-ridenness and promiscuity, many of them are pretty nice people once they open up. They're the realest women I know. Hell, I wouldn't mind marrying one, provided she wasn't disease-risen and missing an eye. The stigma against prostitutes is something that bothers me heavily, as most of the people that criticize prostitutes seem to be other promiscuous people. Only difference is, many prostitutes I imagine do it for survival, so they have an excuse, whereas other folks do it just for fun, yet they criticize those who do it out of necessity.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 02:09:46 AM by JamesR »
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
In the infinite wisdom of God, James can be all three.

Offline orthonorm

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« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2013, 02:15:23 AM »
And would you apply the "P-word" to the males who engage in such behaviour?  Or is that just for females?

It goes for males as well; except, I'd take the P-word as a compliment. Have you ever hung out around prostitutes? When you get past the disease-ridenness and promiscuity, many of them are pretty nice people once they open up. They're the realest women I know. Hell, I wouldn't mind marrying one, provided she wasn't disease-risen and missing an eye. The stigma against prostitutes is something that bothers me heavily, as most of the people that criticize prostitutes seem to be other promiscuous people. Only difference is, many prostitutes I imagine do it for survival, so they have an excuse, whereas other folks do it just for fun, yet they criticize those who do it out of necessity.

Gold. I hate to dissect perfection as it is a fool's errand, but let me highlight where I lost it.
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Offline Punch

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« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2013, 11:49:44 AM »
A hard penis has no conscience, and it never has.  


You know you sorta redeemed yourself yet again. I shouldn't be so quick to judge. Your representation of men is nearly as sick as that of women.

Congrats on that.

You know how I love humanity.  I fully realize that I am fully endowed with all of these failures myself, so what is written is a statement and not a judgment.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline orthonorm

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« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2013, 11:58:28 AM »
A hard penis has no conscience, and it never has.  


You know you sorta redeemed yourself yet again. I shouldn't be so quick to judge. Your representation of men is nearly as sick as that of women.

Congrats on that.

You know how I love humanity.  I fully realize that I am fully endowed with all of these failures myself, so what is written is a statement and not a judgment.

Punch, I truly and wholeheartedly believe you have the best intentions in your heart, whether we agree or not, whether I find your posts edifying or repulsive. Lest PtA psychically grok that I am attacking you in some underhanded way, I well, I guess my word doesn't matter.

Anyway, cheers to you and yours. And really, you should find sometime to write that book some day.

Based on posts here, I would like to someday read a book penned by:

Punch
opus
JamesR

Three of the strongest and most intersting voices I've read in my too long time in the internetz.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 11:58:54 AM by orthonorm »
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Offline Punch

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« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2013, 12:00:33 PM »
IOW, Punch is not an attention seeking poster here. I like a lot of what he posts. Heck, I love what he posts and think he has an excellent voice. His views on women, not so much.

My views on women would probably surprise you.  I actually believe that they are the pinnacle of God's creation.  However, like other things that I admire greatly such as Holly carburetors and the Prophet 5 synthesizer, you have to endure a lot of problems and trouble with them in order to enjoy (and in the end appreciate) their fine points, which surpass those of most men.  Speaking of men, I find most to be vile.  However, they are consistently so which makes it easier to deal with them.

That being said, I do have a high degree of respect for you.  There are exceptions to everything, and some say they prove the rule.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Punch

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« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2013, 12:16:44 PM »
My Mom once told me that when you see dog poop in the street, you don't talk to it and tell it not to be dog poop. You step over it.

Ah yes, one of my favorite subjects - poop.  Yes, there are those that step over it and attempt to avoid it.  However, some realize the benefits of poop.  While some step over it, other use it to fertilize and make things grow.  Others use it to build vessles that will keep vermin away from their food.  Even others use it to warm themselves on cold nights.  And for those that do handle, use and benefit from poop, there is a distinct advantage.  I will let the words of Winston Churchill, when confronted by a woman complaining about the smell of his cigars, speak for those of us who love poop:

"That is why I smoke them.  It keeps away harpies like you."



« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 12:46:04 PM by Punch »
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

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« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2013, 12:23:38 PM »
IOW, Punch is not an attention seeking poster here. I like a lot of what he posts. Heck, I love what he posts and think he has an excellent voice. His views on women, not so much.

My views on women would probably surprise you.  I actually believe that they are the pinnacle of God's creation.  However, like other things that I admire greatly such as Holly carburetors and the Prophet 5 synthesizer, you have to endure a lot of problems and trouble with them in order to enjoy (and in the end appreciate) their fine points, which surpass those of most men.  Speaking of men, I find most to be vile.  However, they are consistently so which makes it easier to deal with them.

That being said, I do have a high degree of respect for you.  There are exceptions to everything, and some say they prove the rule.
You. I like you.
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Offline vamrat

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« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2013, 01:55:29 PM »
IOW, Punch is not an attention seeking poster here. I like a lot of what he posts. Heck, I love what he posts and think he has an excellent voice. His views on women, not so much.

My views on women would probably surprise you.  I actually believe that they are the pinnacle of God's creation.  However, like other things that I admire greatly such as Holly carburetors and the Prophet 5 synthesizer, you have to endure a lot of problems and trouble with them in order to enjoy (and in the end appreciate) their fine points, which surpass those of most men.  Speaking of men, I find most to be vile.  However, they are consistently so which makes it easier to deal with them.

That being said, I do have a high degree of respect for you.  There are exceptions to everything, and some say they prove the rule.
You. I like you.

And I like you Shiny.  Your pics have been really hot so far.  Please send me your IM address and I'll send my credit card number over.


As for polygamy, I don't see the problem so long as their father's are ok with it and you have enough livestock to make him that way.  True story, a real dear friend of mine's father once told me that the reason they invented was the 12 gauge shotgun was in case someone showed up on your porch and said, "Hello sir, my name is [Vamrat] and I want to date your daughter."  I never did ask her out.  She told me once that at the time she kinda wished that I'd had some balls and had asked her.  I never told her that this statement from her father was one of the reasons I did not(1).  Henceforth, it has been my policy to only date women with single mothers or who's fathers do not own guns. 

(1)Actually, it wasn't.  I think he was teasing.  I was just being nutless.  And anyways, if I'd had enough money to be dating in those days I would have had enough to pay for decent Class III body armour. 
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

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« Reply #26 on: December 06, 2013, 02:11:40 PM »
You. I like you.

Judging by the colored meatballs over your name, I think that you and I would get along very well in person.  I never made it above green, not that I was ever trying.  However, frequency has been a problem of late.  I addressed my answer to a PM informing me that I had been meatballed to the wrong moderator because his PM informing me that I had been meatballed was just below the current PM.  I asked myself "is this trying to tell me something"?  I answered "indeed", but I am sure that what I thought it was trying to tell me would not at all have pleased the moderators  ;)
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

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« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2013, 04:59:01 PM »
IOW, Punch is not an attention seeking poster here. I like a lot of what he posts. Heck, I love what he posts and think he has an excellent voice. His views on women, not so much.

My views on women would probably surprise you.  I actually believe that they are the pinnacle of God's creation.  However, like other things that I admire greatly such as Holly carburetors and the Prophet 5 synthesizer, you have to endure a lot of problems and trouble with them in order to enjoy (and in the end appreciate) their fine points, which surpass those of most men.  Speaking of men, I find most to be vile.  However, they are consistently so which makes it easier to deal with them.

That's why Eve was made after Adam. She's Human 2.0.
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Offline vamrat

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Split-off from Orthodoxy and Polygamy
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2013, 05:27:15 PM »
IOW, Punch is not an attention seeking poster here. I like a lot of what he posts. Heck, I love what he posts and think he has an excellent voice. His views on women, not so much.

My views on women would probably surprise you.  I actually believe that they are the pinnacle of God's creation.  However, like other things that I admire greatly such as Holly carburetors and the Prophet 5 synthesizer, you have to endure a lot of problems and trouble with them in order to enjoy (and in the end appreciate) their fine points, which surpass those of most men.  Speaking of men, I find most to be vile.  However, they are consistently so which makes it easier to deal with them.

That's why Eve was made after Adam. She's Human 2.0.

Humans 1.0 - Humans sans Sins
Humans 2.0 - Humans w/ Sins
Humans 3.0 - Humans w/ Sins but at least Death is defeated
Humans 4.0 - Humans Resurrected/Damned
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline orthonorm

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« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2013, 05:42:27 PM »
IOW, Punch is not an attention seeking poster here. I like a lot of what he posts. Heck, I love what he posts and think he has an excellent voice. His views on women, not so much.

My views on women would probably surprise you.  I actually believe that they are the pinnacle of God's creation.  However, like other things that I admire greatly such as Holly carburetors and the Prophet 5 synthesizer, you have to endure a lot of problems and trouble with them in order to enjoy (and in the end appreciate) their fine points, which surpass those of most men.  Speaking of men, I find most to be vile.  However, they are consistently so which makes it easier to deal with them.

That's why Eve was made after Adam. She's Human 2.0.

Punch's stance is very Islamic. This is pretty much nearly verbatim the sense I get from what I read and certainly from what the men I knew who Islamic teachers would say.

One could argue this is one of the faultlines between Judaism and Christianity on the one side and Islam on the other, where the greater moral agency is placed between the sexes.

Anyway, I am snowed in officially. My street is closed by some "Good Samaritans" who need to hit or something.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 05:42:47 PM by orthonorm »
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Offline Punch

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« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2013, 06:41:11 PM »

Punch's stance is very Islamic. This is pretty much nearly verbatim the sense I get from what I read and certainly from what the men I knew who Islamic teachers would say.

One could argue this is one of the faultlines between Judaism and Christianity on the one side and Islam on the other, where the greater moral agency is placed between the sexes.


Interesting.  Yet they treat their women so poorly. 
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline orthonorm

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« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2013, 06:57:05 PM »

Punch's stance is very Islamic. This is pretty much nearly verbatim the sense I get from what I read and certainly from what the men I knew who Islamic teachers would say.

One could argue this is one of the faultlines between Judaism and Christianity on the one side and Islam on the other, where the greater moral agency is placed between the sexes.


Interesting.  Yet they treat their women so poorly. 

That is the thing, they would argue they don't. This is complicated thing and I again, I know you don't get upset easily, I wasn't attempting to slight you when I said what I did.

I am just saying that placing more moral power in women or esteeming the moral agency of women and disparaging that agency of men seems very Muslim to me rather than typically Christian or Judaic. Of course the outcomes might seem odd.

Muslims think they are protecting women from men at every turn and that men are at the same time more predictable do to their rather base nature vis-a-vis women.

Maybe Isa and others who have lived more among Muslims and have had longer talks with them have different views, but even when the Quran alters certain aspects of the Judeo-Christian tradition, women usually make out better in the story.

Anyway, I am snowed in and musing more than anything. But yeah in short, me saying you sound sorta like a Muslim isn't an insult or an attempt at one.

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Offline Shiny

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Split-off from Orthodoxy and Polygamy
« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2013, 08:25:42 PM »
When I think of polygamy, I think of JamesR's brilliant post on rape and naturalism. I need to sig it if I find it.
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Offline Punch

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« Reply #33 on: December 06, 2013, 08:50:15 PM »

That is the thing, they would argue they don't. This is complicated thing and I again, I know you don't get upset easily, I wasn't attempting to slight you when I said what I did.

I did not take it as such.  A comparison is not an insult, particularly if it is a reasonable comparison.

Quote
I am just saying that placing more moral power in women or esteeming the moral agency of women and disparaging that agency of men seems very Muslim to me rather than typically Christian or Judaic. Of course the outcomes might seem odd.

Now that is the problem with people like you and me that are capable of seeing things in more than one color.  You were seeing my comments on women as applying to different characteristics than I was.  Morals of women were not what I was considering.  However, where they do shine in morals, they shine.  A "moral" man will sit in a rough gown on a hard floor and pray for you.  A "moral" woman will more likely get off her butt and actually feed you.  It is that tender care that I find more satisfying than most contact that I have with men.  Also, the beauty of a woman, to me, surpasses most of that of nature.  In general, I prefer the company of women to that of men, even for conversation and such. 

Quote
Muslims think they are protecting women from men at every turn and that men are at the same time more predictable do to their rather base nature vis-a-vis women.

They and I probably see eye to eye here.

Quote
Maybe Isa and others who have lived more among Muslims and have had longer talks with them have different views, but even when the Quran alters certain aspects of the Judeo-Christian tradition, women usually make out better in the story.

I have probably moved this way in my later years, perhaps due to contact with good women (including the one I married).   

Quote
Anyway, I am snowed in and musing more than anything. But yeah in short, me saying you sound sorta like a Muslim isn't an insult or an attempt at one.

I do not dislike everything about them, even if I do lean a bit toward ethnically cleansing them.  Here it is just cold.  It is supposed to drop to -3 F by morning.  It was only +1 this morning.

I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Punch

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« Reply #34 on: December 06, 2013, 08:53:01 PM »
When I think of polygamy, I think of JamesR's brilliant post on rape and naturalism. I need to sig it if I find it.

"Rape is natural yet, it is immoral."

I do not find rape to be natural.  It seems like far to much work.  What would be natural to me is to have women throwing themselves at me.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Jetavan

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Split-off from Orthodoxy and Polygamy
« Reply #35 on: December 06, 2013, 10:47:15 PM »

I do not dislike everything about them, even if I do lean a bit toward ethnically cleansing them.

:o
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 10:47:52 PM by Jetavan »
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Offline Shiny

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Split-off from Orthodoxy and Polygamy
« Reply #36 on: December 07, 2013, 10:21:30 AM »
What would be natural to me is to have women throwing themselves at me.
Well that would be a one up over our orthonormie who breaks the hearts of every woman that catches a fleeting second in his presence.
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Split-off from Orthodoxy and Polygamy
« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2013, 12:35:34 AM »

I do not find rape to be natural.  It seems like far to much work.  What would be natural to me is to have women throwing themselves at me.

Shiny needs to use this as a second sig.
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Offline Maria

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Re: Split-off from Orthodoxy and Polygamy
« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2013, 01:12:50 AM »
How come I haven't seen a woman with multiple husbands?

Some women get paid by the hour, and some under a long term contract.  The former are called prostitutes and the latter are called wives.  I believe that are referring to the former.

At least with the former, you get what you pay for with no strings attached (unless you like it that way), whereas in the case of the latter, you are paying more than you ought to pay for way less than you ought to be getting in return.

Like I said earlier,

I can see the institution of marriage breaking down in the West in favor of a looser form of extended prostitution or "temporary marriage" (apparently the P-word offends many people) where people legally hook up for a period ranging from a few months to a few years. Let's face it: marriage is expensive & tough in this world. And most men--contrary to what some may think--can't stay 100% celibate until they are almost 30. At least in the case of temporary marriage, both parties get what they want at an affordable rate and they don't have to deal with bad break-ups and emotional heartbreaks.

That being said, if most people can't afford even one wife, I'm not sure if polygamy would even be a problem for the Orthodox Church anymore today, save maybe in a few societies. A bigger problem is how the Church wants to deal with the growing difficulty of getting married nowadays if it still expects its parishioners to wait until marriage. One thing is going to budge; I just don't know which. Either the Church's morality on sex is going to budge and change (even more so than it already has) or Western society is going to change.

Most likely, society will get worse and leave the Holy Church, then Christ's Second Coming put a stop to all this immorality.

Come Lord Jesus!
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Split-off from Orthodoxy and Polygamy
« Reply #39 on: December 08, 2013, 11:32:31 PM »
My Mom once told me that when you see dog poop in the street, you don't talk to it and tell it not to be dog poop. You step over it.

Ah yes, one of my favorite subjects - poop.  Yes, there are those that step over it and attempt to avoid it.  However, some realize the benefits of poop.  While some step over it, other use it to fertilize and make things grow.  Others use it to build vessles that will keep vermin away from their food.  Even others use it to warm themselves on cold nights.  And for those that do handle, use and benefit from poop, there is a distinct advantage.  I will let the words of Winston Churchill, when confronted by a woman complaining about the smell of his cigars, speak for those of us who love poop:

"That is why I smoke them.  It keeps away harpies like you."





We love poop on our farm.  LOVE IT!  I deal with poop every single day of my life.  We shovel it all the time... Makes great compost... Keeps the animals warm as warm bacteria grow on it on their stall floors.

Poop is spoken too little about.

But poop and polygamy is probably not a good thing.
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Split-off from Orthodoxy and Polygamy
« Reply #40 on: December 08, 2013, 11:35:42 PM »
How come I haven't seen a woman with multiple husbands?

Some women get paid by the hour, and some under a long term contract.  The former are called prostitutes and the latter are called wives.  I believe that are referring to the former.

At least with the former, you get what you pay for with no strings attached (unless you like it that way), whereas in the case of the latter, you are paying more than you ought to pay for way less than you ought to be getting in return.

Like I said earlier,

I can see the institution of marriage breaking down in the West in favor of a looser form of extended prostitution or "temporary marriage" (apparently the P-word offends many people) where people legally hook up for a period ranging from a few months to a few years. Let's face it: marriage is expensive & tough in this world. And most men--contrary to what some may think--can't stay 100% celibate until they are almost 30. At least in the case of temporary marriage, both parties get what they want at an affordable rate and they don't have to deal with bad break-ups and emotional heartbreaks.

That being said, if most people can't afford even one wife, I'm not sure if polygamy would even be a problem for the Orthodox Church anymore today, save maybe in a few societies. A bigger problem is how the Church wants to deal with the growing difficulty of getting married nowadays if it still expects its parishioners to wait until marriage. One thing is going to budge; I just don't know which. Either the Church's morality on sex is going to budge and change (even more so than it already has) or Western society is going to change.

Most likely, society will get worse and leave the Holy Church, then Christ's Second Coming put a stop to all this immorality.

Come Lord Jesus!

It will only get worse and worse.  We are preparing for that day.  One of the many reasons we moved to the farm.  We are going 100% organic and raising our livestock off the land.  It's very hard to do.  Next year all hay will be cut by the scythe.... Don't want power equipment that I can't power myself in the event fuel is gone.  Our god warned us about the end times, and many do not see it around the corner.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Split-off from Orthodoxy and Polygamy
« Reply #41 on: December 08, 2013, 11:45:27 PM »
Next year all hay will be cut by the scythe.... Don't want power equipment that I can't power myself in the event fuel is gone. 

That's hardcore.  Respect. 
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

New thread topic.  Rate the sexual attractiveness of members of OC.net on a scale of 1-10.

Mor Ephrem: 11/10

Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Split-off from Orthodoxy and Polygamy
« Reply #42 on: December 09, 2013, 12:42:18 AM »
Next year all hay will be cut by the scythe.... Don't want power equipment that I can't power myself in the event fuel is gone. 

That's hardcore.  Respect. 

It will be interesting to say the least.  I'm kind of getting old for it, but probably need to work out the "old rust" :) , but my son will soon be old enough to help out.   We eventually want the experience to go a full year, 100% off the land.   We may try this and go 100% off the grid at the same time.  Right now I have a 30dbi 2.4 GHz parabolic grid antenna on 3 watts going to a hotspot several miles out.  We have solar power but I'm not on that breaker box right now, otherwise I'd be writing this off the grid. 

We had huge ice storms here in Texas.  I built a barrel stove, but don't trust it indoors.  So I installed it in a small enclosed trailer with the front of the barrel sticking out (and chimney through the top).  The inner part of the trailer gets super hot, so I installed a blower system to push air into the trailer, and have a pipe coming out.  I need to post a pic.  :)  (All sealed in heat tape & heat silicone)

Well the blower is on the solar battery bank right now.  It uses 70 watts of power.  (compare to an old school 100 watt bulb).   My home is fully being heated off this system right now (and of course burning wood).   I don't want to clog the solar with my computer gear right now... Arg, need to expand.

Anyway, yeah the scything technique I actually learned years ago from a Greek Orthodox monk.  This guy was insanely strong, and ironically on a vegetarian diet.  He'd take bales and chunk them to a 10ft loft. (80 pounders)  I was like 15 at the time and helping stack some hay.  I was up in the loft and would soon enough lift a bale to place and I'd hear "THUD" - well there's another one.  LOL.

Also there were some monks (I don't know if they are still there) in Hiram, OH who had a neat setup, candle factory, guest house, and land.  I believe they did some scything too.
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Offline Maria

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Re: Split-off from Orthodoxy and Polygamy
« Reply #43 on: December 09, 2013, 01:32:32 AM »
Next year all hay will be cut by the scythe.... Don't want power equipment that I can't power myself in the event fuel is gone. 

That's hardcore.  Respect. 

It will be interesting to say the least.  I'm kind of getting old for it, but probably need to work out the "old rust" :) , but my son will soon be old enough to help out.   We eventually want the experience to go a full year, 100% off the land.   We may try this and go 100% off the grid at the same time.  Right now I have a 30dbi 2.4 GHz parabolic grid antenna on 3 watts going to a hotspot several miles out.  We have solar power but I'm not on that breaker box right now, otherwise I'd be writing this off the grid. 

We had huge ice storms here in Texas.  I built a barrel stove, but don't trust it indoors.  So I installed it in a small enclosed trailer with the front of the barrel sticking out (and chimney through the top).  The inner part of the trailer gets super hot, so I installed a blower system to push air into the trailer, and have a pipe coming out.  I need to post a pic.  :)  (All sealed in heat tape & heat silicone)

Well the blower is on the solar battery bank right now.  It uses 70 watts of power.  (compare to an old school 100 watt bulb).   My home is fully being heated off this system right now (and of course burning wood).   I don't want to clog the solar with my computer gear right now... Arg, need to expand.

Anyway, yeah the scything technique I actually learned years ago from a Greek Orthodox monk.  This guy was insanely strong, and ironically on a vegetarian diet.  He'd take bales and chunk them to a 10ft loft. (80 pounders)  I was like 15 at the time and helping stack some hay.  I was up in the loft and would soon enough lift a bale to place and I'd hear "THUD" - well there's another one.  LOL.

Also there were some monks (I don't know if they are still there) in Hiram, OH who had a neat setup, candle factory, guest house, and land.  I believe they did some scything too.

Wow! I am going to send you a PM.
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Split-off from Orthodoxy and Polygamy
« Reply #44 on: December 11, 2013, 11:03:47 PM »
How come I haven't seen a woman with multiple husbands?

Some women get paid by the hour, and some under a long term contract.  The former are called prostitutes and the latter are called wives.  I believe that are referring to the former.

I apologize, I sort of threw the thread off...

From what I have heard from a couple of FLDS (in so many words), "a woman can't marry multiple men.  She would never know who the father of her children are.   If a man has multiple wives, they all know who the parents are."

LOL, it makes sense I guess.   ::)

I don't know where I stand on a theological level with polygamy.  I know the wife that I have is all that I want... I just don't see anything wrong with that.  And though we may never pull off a Duggar run, we have 5 children and I'm blessed by that!

I can't imagine how polygamy actually "works".  I've seen it work, which makes it all more confusing.  I've asked and it is explained out.... It just doesn't "click" in my brain I guess.


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