Author Topic: Capital punishment of heretics?  (Read 3551 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Shanghaiski

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,980
  • Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia
Re: Capital punishment of heretics?
« Reply #45 on: December 07, 2013, 01:23:36 AM »
I understand nowadays pretty much everyone supports religious tolerance and most Orthodox are against capital punishment for any crime but I'm confused by the fact that historically the Orthodox of the Byzantine Empire executed people for heresy.

This is what has always deeply disturbed me about the Orthodox and Catholics. Why in the world would the Church execute heretics and burn them at the stake?!? Didn't Jesus tell us to love our enemies (and heretics)? I find this inconceivable. Why would Christians who were burned at the stake and executed then turn around and do the same thing to heretics? I just don't understand. Can someone educate me please?

Though I think I've heard an explanation before. First off, the culture was different then in the 21st century, and also that when Christianity was legalized heresy became illegal?

Also, YiM, you are going over the top. Mor is right about St. Constantine and St. Paul. I think he converted to Christianity at his deathbed, if I remember correctly.

The Church did not execute anyone. That state did, often over the express objection of the Church.
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline Shanghaiski

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,980
  • Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia
Re: Capital punishment of heretics?
« Reply #46 on: December 07, 2013, 01:25:52 AM »
Quod nomen est tibi?

Legio nomen mihi est, quia multi sumus. 

This is getting to be like the ending of "A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man."
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline mike

  • A sexual pervert with limited English reading comprehension
  • Protostrator
  • ***************
  • Posts: 24,872
  • Polish Laser Jesus shooting down schismatics
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of Białystok and Gdańsk
Re: Capital punishment of heretics?
« Reply #47 on: December 07, 2013, 10:18:04 AM »
Unless somebody wants to declare that Constantine wasn't a Christian during the Nicea.

He wasn't.
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?
"No one is paying attention to your post reports"
Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

Online Asteriktos

  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 37,240
Re: Capital punishment of heretics?
« Reply #48 on: December 07, 2013, 10:55:37 AM »
Unless somebody wants to declare that Constantine wasn't a Christian during the Nicea.

He wasn't.

Depends on what people mean by these terms. At that point in time being baptized did not have the same meaning, role, or weight that many assign it today (neither did communion, marriage, episcopacy, etc.) For example, up through the end of the fourth century some people were even chosen to become bishops before they were baptized, including at least two people who were eventually declared a saint (St. Nektarios of Constantinople and, more famously, St. Ambrose of Milan). Some people at the time objected regarding the lack of experience of these candidates (having been only catechumens and never fully participating in things like the sacraments to that point), but no one said that they weren't Christians. For another example, pious Christian families would often not baptize their children while young, even though the practice of infant baptism was an option, but rather let the children get to adulthood and decide for themselves when they thought it best to be baptized. When St. Nonna and St. (Bishop) Gregory raised their children, such as St. Gregory the Theologian, and did not baptized them, but let them grow up, go off to college, etc., and only get baptized as adults, it had not been done with the idea that they weren't Christians.

Offline Fr. George

  • formerly "Cleveland"
  • Administrator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,227
  • May the Lord bless you and keep you always!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Re: Capital punishment of heretics?
« Reply #49 on: December 07, 2013, 11:46:48 AM »
Hey Latininsts and everyone else, this last exchange makes me believe it's not just me, is there more whitespace than normal at the end of each post now?

Not complaining, just wondering. 

Is it just a phenomenon related to the avatar and custom title size - i.e. very short posts will have white space because of the post's need to conform to the size of the info at left?  Or is it something else?
How in Mor's good name
one hundred fifty four posts
No Rachel Weisz pic

Selam

Offline orthonorm

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,715
  • Ad Aluminum!
  • Faith: DSM 5
  • Jurisdiction: Apostle to the Church of ASD
Re: Capital punishment of heretics?
« Reply #50 on: December 07, 2013, 01:07:15 PM »
Hey Latininsts and everyone else, this last exchange makes me believe it's not just me, is there more whitespace than normal at the end of each post now?

Not complaining, just wondering. 

Is it just a phenomenon related to the avatar and custom title size - i.e. very short posts will have white space because of the post's need to conform to the size of the info at left?  Or is it something else?

Father,

I must have been more tired than I thought when I mentioned that, because what you say seems rather obvious now.

Maybe it just the change back from the less compact manner of showing profile info.

Thank you.

Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

  • "SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,346
  • Trolling Babylon 24/7, without apology!
    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=profile&id=1456515775
  • Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo
Re: Capital punishment of heretics?
« Reply #51 on: December 07, 2013, 01:23:25 PM »
Oh, YiM, you're just looking for reasons to defend your own departure from the Church.  By the standards you apply to Constantine, you'd also have to reject St Paul.  Have fun with that.

Not exactly, be fair.

Constantine was a Christian when hit lit other Christians on fire, and murdered hundreds of thousands in battle.   Paul on the other hand, became a Christian and did not murder thereafter.... Unless somebody wants to declare that Constantine wasn't a Christian during the Nicea.

Look, if pagan Paul burned somebody or stoned somebody, saw the error of his ways, and came to Christ that is one thing.  We are talking about bishops who have succession LIGHTING ON FIRE other Orthodox Christians (old believers)...  

Once again, in contrast to the Canon of the Holy Apostles, they should have never murdered or killed.... Easily overlooked.

The scrutiny applies both ways.   Look at me for example.  I don't make a lot of friends here because I believe in Yeshua, the son of God as my savior.  I am a Christian believer.  I scrutinize Orthodoxy with at least a novice level of understanding in the Orthodox faith.   I grew up in the church, have known bishops (personally), known lots of clergy, and have even been to Mt. Athos.   From this ground I PECK at Orthodox traditions that I believe are heretical.   This doesn't make me a lot of friends around here on the theological level.... "I left the church" in the EO's eyes, yet I'm "Discovering the church" in my own eyes.   It brings scrutiny of harsher levels against me.  So I don't like icons right?  I find them to be idols of sorts.... I get attacked on this level.

There is a small problem.   I didn't light up other Christians.   You know, grab em', tie them to a stake, pile wood around them & under them..... Get a fire started (without matches)... And apply the fire to the kindling.  Sit around as the dull heat begins to grow, and the heretic tied.... Watch as they begin to scream in agony.... Watch as the flesh boils, fats seep fueling the flame, as they writhe in pain.... Let them scream until their miserable end, as they give up their spirit.

But lest I address the Eastern Orthodox for doing this to Old believers, who didn't want to change the long standing traditions....

I mean, I criticize icons on an internet forum.  It doesn't make me friends.  Long ago, it may have gotten my throat slit by Eastern Orthodox iconodules, or perhaps burned too.  

History stinks, but it stinks worse at the smell of burning human flesh of Christians, caused by others that Eastern Orthodox Christians call "brothers".

It's a reality and though its not popular to say it around here - it's the truth.  We don't have to like the truth.  Actions like this are undoubtedly actions of the maintainers of the antichrist.   I don't even agree with all old believer practices, but I agree with them WAY WAY more than a Muslim.  But I would never even consider for a second lighting another human being that is a Muslim (or anything else) on fire.  I wouldn't even light a satanist on fire.   Fire is for God's judgment.

I know NONE of you on this board approve of such a thing.  That's some sick stuff.

I apologize if it seems harsh.  There has never been an Eastern Orthodox Christian that I have known of that would EVER do any such a thing.  It's sad it's part of EO.   I've known some of the most kind and gentle brothers and sisters imaginable in the church.

The problem that exists is within the succession, as murder deposes and excommunicates.  Why is it that Christians can be so cruel to other Christians?  (Not just EO) I'd see any EO Christian as my brother or sister that I just disagree with on some things.  But somebody who would torch another human, the buck stops there.  Perhaps it's my own faith issue.

Sorry, but I've watched living things burn (goats), when a grass field (tall grass & small tree mix last June in Texas) caught on fire.  The screaming was something that I can't "unhear".  It was a situation where my good friend and I just started shooting them to put them out of their misery as they darted past the flame line and their fur went up in a blaze.... (my friend lost 14 of 94 goats he had) On this account, burning at the stake another human.... BEYOND words.  It's a VERY sensitive subject for me.   Believe it when I say, I shoot lots of wildlife (boars, razorbacks, coyotes, snakes) and I've also slaughtered full cows.   The goats burning alive...   I can't imagine a person.

In good news though, he is expecting an awesome freshening this year as he has 50 does pregnant.  God is good.

Anyway, I just don't know why or how Christians can be so cruel to other Christians and still consider themselves Christian.  How could one ever approach the Eucharist after burning another Christian alive?

I guess evil can exist anywhere.  The EO I have known never would have done such a thing.



I'm with you brother.

Selam
"Whether it’s the guillotine, the hangman’s noose, or reciprocal endeavors of militaristic horror, radical evil will never be recompensed with radical punishment. The only answer, the only remedy, and the only truly effective response to radical evil is radical love."
+ Gebre Menfes Kidus +
http://bookstore.authorhouse.com/Products/SKU-000984270/Rebel-Song.aspx

Offline podkarpatska

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,732
  • Pokrov
    • ACROD (home)
Re: Capital punishment of heretics?
« Reply #52 on: December 07, 2013, 01:25:31 PM »
Quod nomen est tibi?

Legio nomen mihi est, quia multi sumus. 

Tu autem effugare, diabole; appropinquabit enim judicium Dei.

Offline Rufus

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,337
  • Nafpliotis with sunglasses and a cigar.
Re: Capital punishment of heretics?
« Reply #53 on: December 07, 2013, 03:37:11 PM »

By the way, I'm merely asking questions here, not making statements, I'm confused.

Related to the topic, how am I even supposed to respond if someone is making very vulgar insults against God with the intention to hurt me and I'm unable to walk away? Do I stay silent? Respond with violence?

I depends on if you want to be a martyr or if you want to stop the blasphemy.

No, it depends on whether you want to give satisfaction to someone who's trying to get a rise out of you or not.

Wow, have you ever been picked on?

You sound like a teacher.

Jesus says to turn the other cheek, but I can tell you from experience the chances of achieving a positive outcome in this life by doing so are very low.

I've been picked on. I've picked on others. I am a teacher. And that's exactly why I know there isn't just a bottomless pit of nothingness between silence and fisticuffs.

IMUE teachers tend to effectively punish the victim by telling him/her that if they are being mistreated, it is because they are not quite ignoring it the right way or something. They are wrong. A fairer course of action would be for the teacher to punish the aggressor. Otherwise, you are teaching the kids the necessity of retaliation and the impotence of authority figures, the latter of which is an important lesson anyway.

Nothing goes away by being ignored. Teachers, on the other hand, can be quite hamstrung by the rules of the system they work in. (Guess who'll find themselves out of a job if the school gets sued by some Veruca's equally entitled parent?)

On the other other hand, I see no reason to deck someone before they (attempt to) deck me.

Yeah, I hear you about the rules/lawsuit thing, even in different countries. I have a very depressing personal anecdote about this that I can't tell here.

However, people who get picked on are usually weaker, so punching isn't really a good strategy. I found banging the other boy's head into the wall most effective.

Arachne's obviously never been in a fight. You have. I remember the first brick I bash a kid's skull with. Innocence unfortunately is lost very early on.

I tried turning my other cheek to the menaces. Really, I was a super Christian kid. But when they were holding my brother down and ill attempting to pull out his recent stitches, what are you going to do? Well, a brick adds about 3 years and a lot of weight to small kid.

Nearly killing someone, depending on the environment, does tend to send a message about the price of violence. Too bad I had to move a lot. Sending the message starting happening earlier and earlier. Eventually, verbal threats were enough.

Chip chap and "fair fights" are just so boring and ineffectual

Rufus, to your point about teachers and fighting, at my school, no matter what happened, if you were in a fight, literally if a teacher saw a kid clobber you from behind, you both got the same punishment. Well, this gave incentive to certain kids to act out and punished many kids with suspensions and stuff who never merited it.

Oh, and Arachne, ignoring many things makes them go away.

I've always avoided fighting and never got into a pitched fight, just a series of one-sided encounters, and usually nothing serious.

However, the suspensions were hilarious. Hey, take a day off. I had quite a few.

I did really mash a kid's head once though, and the kicker is that it was right in front of a teacher, and he said it was OK. I still have ambivalent feelings about that incident.

gotta go.

Offline minasoliman

  • Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
  • Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 20,189
  • Pray for me St. Severus
  • Faith: Oriental Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Coptic
Re: Capital punishment of heretics?
« Reply #54 on: December 08, 2013, 07:53:08 PM »
Quod nomen est tibi?

Legio nomen mihi est, quia multi sumus. 

Tu autem effugare, diabole; appropinquabit enim judicium Dei.

OK people, let's not get out of hand.  I ask you all to provide a translation please next time. That's not just for pod, but anyone else who's been writing in Latin.

Thank you.

Mina
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline biro

  • Site Supporter
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 20,672
  • Excelsior
    • Archive of Our Own works
  • Faith: GOAA
  • Jurisdiction: Antonis said I'm not Christian, so...
Re: Capital punishment of heretics?
« Reply #55 on: December 08, 2013, 08:19:38 PM »
If college memories serve me, that's from the Gospel passage - 'Who are you?' 'My name is Legion, for we are many.' Jesus drives the demons out of the man and into the pigs.
My only weakness is, well, never mind

And you'll sleep, but they'll find you

Come back my dream into my arms, into my arms

London is drowning, and I live by the river

https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • Ο προκαθήμενος της Ορθοδοξίας - The President of Orthodoxy
  • Section Moderator
  • Hypatos
  • *****
  • Posts: 33,696
  • Two half-eggs
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: The Ancienter Faith
  • Jurisdiction: Yekmalian Monoculture
Re: Capital punishment of heretics?
« Reply #56 on: December 08, 2013, 08:25:17 PM »
If college memories serve me, that's from the Gospel passage - 'Who are you?' 'My name is Legion, for we are many.' Jesus drives the demons out of the man and into the pigs.

Wow, what college did you go to?  ;)

BTW, you are right.
Mor Ephrem is a nice guy.  Just say sorry and it will all be ok. Say I had things that were inside troubling me but I didn't know how to express appropriately. I will not behave that way again but I am seeking help.

thank you so much Mor ephrem you are a hero!

Offline biro

  • Site Supporter
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 20,672
  • Excelsior
    • Archive of Our Own works
  • Faith: GOAA
  • Jurisdiction: Antonis said I'm not Christian, so...
Re: Capital punishment of heretics?
« Reply #57 on: December 08, 2013, 09:05:46 PM »
Thanks.
My only weakness is, well, never mind

And you'll sleep, but they'll find you

Come back my dream into my arms, into my arms

London is drowning, and I live by the river

https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist

Offline Gunnarr

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,105
Re: Capital punishment of heretics?
« Reply #58 on: December 10, 2013, 01:14:54 AM »
Oh, YiM, you're just looking for reasons to defend your own departure from the Church.  By the standards you apply to Constantine, you'd also have to reject St Paul.  Have fun with that.

Not exactly, be fair.

Constantine was a Christian when hit lit other Christians on fire, and murdered hundreds of thousands in battle.   Paul on the other hand, became a Christian and did not murder thereafter.... Unless somebody wants to declare that Constantine wasn't a Christian during the Nicea.

YiM,

St Paul was baptised by Ananias, and did not murder thereafter.  St Constantine was baptised on his deathbed, and did not murder thereafter.  But if you're going to criticise St Constantine for his past life, why not criticise St Paul?  Or that murderous adulterer David, whose son is "Yeshua, the son of God"?  Or just about every major figure in the Scriptures?   

Quote
Look, if pagan Paul burned somebody or stoned somebody, saw the error of his ways, and came to Christ that is one thing.  We are talking about bishops who have succession LIGHTING ON FIRE other Orthodox Christians (old believers)...  

Once again, in contrast to the Canon of the Holy Apostles, they should have never murdered or killed.... Easily overlooked.

The scrutiny applies both ways.   Look at me for example.  I don't make a lot of friends here because I believe in Yeshua, the son of God as my savior.  I am a Christian believer.  I scrutinize Orthodoxy with at least a novice level of understanding in the Orthodox faith.   I grew up in the church, have known bishops (personally), known lots of clergy, and have even been to Mt. Athos.   From this ground I PECK at Orthodox traditions that I believe are heretical.   This doesn't make me a lot of friends around here on the theological level.... "I left the church" in the EO's eyes, yet I'm "Discovering the church" in my own eyes.   It brings scrutiny of harsher levels against me.  So I don't like icons right?  I find them to be idols of sorts.... I get attacked on this level.

There is a small problem.   I didn't light up other Christians.   You know, grab em', tie them to a stake, pile wood around them & under them..... Get a fire started (without matches)... And apply the fire to the kindling.  Sit around as the dull heat begins to grow, and the heretic tied.... Watch as they begin to scream in agony.... Watch as the flesh boils, fats seep fueling the flame, as they writhe in pain.... Let them scream until their miserable end, as they give up their spirit.

But lest I address the Eastern Orthodox for doing this to Old believers, who didn't want to change the long standing traditions....

I mean, I criticize icons on an internet forum.  It doesn't make me friends.  Long ago, it may have gotten my throat slit by Eastern Orthodox iconodules, or perhaps burned too.  

History stinks, but it stinks worse at the smell of burning human flesh of Christians, caused by others that Eastern Orthodox Christians call "brothers".

It's a reality and though its not popular to say it around here - it's the truth.  We don't have to like the truth.  Actions like this are undoubtedly actions of the maintainers of the antichrist.   I don't even agree with all old believer practices, but I agree with them WAY WAY more than a Muslim.  But I would never even consider for a second lighting another human being that is a Muslim (or anything else) on fire.  I wouldn't even light a satanist on fire.   Fire is for God's judgment.

I know NONE of you on this board approve of such a thing.  That's some sick stuff.

I apologize if it seems harsh.  There has never been an Eastern Orthodox Christian that I have known of that would EVER do any such a thing.  It's sad it's part of EO.   I've known some of the most kind and gentle brothers and sisters imaginable in the church.

The problem that exists is within the succession, as murder deposes and excommunicates.  Why is it that Christians can be so cruel to other Christians?  (Not just EO) I'd see any EO Christian as my brother or sister that I just disagree with on some things.  But somebody who would torch another human, the buck stops there.  Perhaps it's my own faith issue.

Sorry, but I've watched living things burn (goats), when a grass field (tall grass & small tree mix last June in Texas) caught on fire.  The screaming was something that I can't "unhear".  It was a situation where my good friend and I just started shooting them to put them out of their misery as they darted past the flame line and their fur went up in a blaze.... (my friend lost 14 of 94 goats he had) On this account, burning at the stake another human.... BEYOND words.  It's a VERY sensitive subject for me.   Believe it when I say, I shoot lots of wildlife (boars, razorbacks, coyotes, snakes) and I've also slaughtered full cows.   The goats burning alive...   I can't imagine a person.

In good news though, he is expecting an awesome freshening this year as he has 50 does pregnant.  God is good.

Anyway, I just don't know why or how Christians can be so cruel to other Christians and still consider themselves Christian.  How could one ever approach the Eucharist after burning another Christian alive?

I guess evil can exist anywhere.  The EO I have known never would have done such a thing.

In other words:

Oh, YiM, you're just looking for reasons to defend your own departure from the Church.  

Perhaps it's my own faith issue.

+1

You can't use that excuse for St. Justinian!
I am a demonic servant! Beware!

Offline Shanghaiski

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,980
  • Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia
Re: Capital punishment of heretics?
« Reply #59 on: December 10, 2013, 08:43:41 PM »
Oh, YiM, you're just looking for reasons to defend your own departure from the Church.  By the standards you apply to Constantine, you'd also have to reject St Paul.  Have fun with that.

Not exactly, be fair.

Constantine was a Christian when hit lit other Christians on fire, and murdered hundreds of thousands in battle.   Paul on the other hand, became a Christian and did not murder thereafter.... Unless somebody wants to declare that Constantine wasn't a Christian during the Nicea.

YiM,

St Paul was baptised by Ananias, and did not murder thereafter.  St Constantine was baptised on his deathbed, and did not murder thereafter.  But if you're going to criticise St Constantine for his past life, why not criticise St Paul?  Or that murderous adulterer David, whose son is "Yeshua, the son of God"?  Or just about every major figure in the Scriptures?   

Quote
Look, if pagan Paul burned somebody or stoned somebody, saw the error of his ways, and came to Christ that is one thing.  We are talking about bishops who have succession LIGHTING ON FIRE other Orthodox Christians (old believers)...  

Once again, in contrast to the Canon of the Holy Apostles, they should have never murdered or killed.... Easily overlooked.

The scrutiny applies both ways.   Look at me for example.  I don't make a lot of friends here because I believe in Yeshua, the son of God as my savior.  I am a Christian believer.  I scrutinize Orthodoxy with at least a novice level of understanding in the Orthodox faith.   I grew up in the church, have known bishops (personally), known lots of clergy, and have even been to Mt. Athos.   From this ground I PECK at Orthodox traditions that I believe are heretical.   This doesn't make me a lot of friends around here on the theological level.... "I left the church" in the EO's eyes, yet I'm "Discovering the church" in my own eyes.   It brings scrutiny of harsher levels against me.  So I don't like icons right?  I find them to be idols of sorts.... I get attacked on this level.

There is a small problem.   I didn't light up other Christians.   You know, grab em', tie them to a stake, pile wood around them & under them..... Get a fire started (without matches)... And apply the fire to the kindling.  Sit around as the dull heat begins to grow, and the heretic tied.... Watch as they begin to scream in agony.... Watch as the flesh boils, fats seep fueling the flame, as they writhe in pain.... Let them scream until their miserable end, as they give up their spirit.

But lest I address the Eastern Orthodox for doing this to Old believers, who didn't want to change the long standing traditions....

I mean, I criticize icons on an internet forum.  It doesn't make me friends.  Long ago, it may have gotten my throat slit by Eastern Orthodox iconodules, or perhaps burned too.  

History stinks, but it stinks worse at the smell of burning human flesh of Christians, caused by others that Eastern Orthodox Christians call "brothers".

It's a reality and though its not popular to say it around here - it's the truth.  We don't have to like the truth.  Actions like this are undoubtedly actions of the maintainers of the antichrist.   I don't even agree with all old believer practices, but I agree with them WAY WAY more than a Muslim.  But I would never even consider for a second lighting another human being that is a Muslim (or anything else) on fire.  I wouldn't even light a satanist on fire.   Fire is for God's judgment.

I know NONE of you on this board approve of such a thing.  That's some sick stuff.

I apologize if it seems harsh.  There has never been an Eastern Orthodox Christian that I have known of that would EVER do any such a thing.  It's sad it's part of EO.   I've known some of the most kind and gentle brothers and sisters imaginable in the church.

The problem that exists is within the succession, as murder deposes and excommunicates.  Why is it that Christians can be so cruel to other Christians?  (Not just EO) I'd see any EO Christian as my brother or sister that I just disagree with on some things.  But somebody who would torch another human, the buck stops there.  Perhaps it's my own faith issue.

Sorry, but I've watched living things burn (goats), when a grass field (tall grass & small tree mix last June in Texas) caught on fire.  The screaming was something that I can't "unhear".  It was a situation where my good friend and I just started shooting them to put them out of their misery as they darted past the flame line and their fur went up in a blaze.... (my friend lost 14 of 94 goats he had) On this account, burning at the stake another human.... BEYOND words.  It's a VERY sensitive subject for me.   Believe it when I say, I shoot lots of wildlife (boars, razorbacks, coyotes, snakes) and I've also slaughtered full cows.   The goats burning alive...   I can't imagine a person.

In good news though, he is expecting an awesome freshening this year as he has 50 does pregnant.  God is good.

Anyway, I just don't know why or how Christians can be so cruel to other Christians and still consider themselves Christian.  How could one ever approach the Eucharist after burning another Christian alive?

I guess evil can exist anywhere.  The EO I have known never would have done such a thing.

In other words:

Oh, YiM, you're just looking for reasons to defend your own departure from the Church.  

Perhaps it's my own faith issue.

+1

You can't use that excuse for St. Justinian!

What?
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.