Author Topic: Help Translating St. Augustine  (Read 2642 times)

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Offline JamesR

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Help Translating St. Augustine
« on: November 23, 2013, 10:39:12 PM »
Hello friends, I was studying some of St. Augustine's writings--in particular, On the Literal Interpretation of Genesis, and I was wondering if someone could translate this bit for me into English, as accurately as possible.

Quote
Quid coniugium in paradiso fuisset, si progenitores non peccassent.

3. 6. Quamquam enim iam emissi de paradiso convenisse et genuisse commemorantur; tamen non video quid prohibere potuerit, ut essent eis etiam in paradiso honorabiles nuptiae, et torus immaculatus 11: hoc Deo praestante fideliter iusteque viventibus, eique obedienter sancteque servientibus, ut sine ullo inquieto ardore libidinis, sine ullo labore ac dolore pariendi, fetus ex eorum semine gigneretur; non ut morientibus parentibus filii succederent, sed ut illis qui genuissent in aliquo formae statu manentibus, et ex ligno vitae, quod ibi plantatum erat, corporalem vigorem sumentibus, et illi qui gignerentur ad eumdem perducerentur statum, donec certo numero impleto, si iuste omnes obedienterque viverent, tunc fieret illa commutatio, ut sine ulla morte animalia corpora conversa in aliam qualitatem, eo quod ad omnem nutum regenti se spiritui deservirent, et solo spiritu vivificante sine ullis alimentorum corporalibus sustentaculis viverent, spiritalia vocarentur. Potuit hoc fieri, si non praecepti transgressio mortis supplicium mereretur.

Again, for you moderators, the source is St. Augustine's On the Literal Interpretation of Genesis.

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Help Translating St. Augustine
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2013, 11:09:08 PM »
Quote
I was wondering if someone could translate this bit for me into English, as accurately as possible.

So, Google Translate isn't going to work for you? It doesn't work very good with Greek either.
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”- St. Ambrose of Milan

"Now one cannot be a half-hearted Christian, but only entirely or not at all." -Fr. Seraphim Rose

"He who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen." (1 John 4:20)

Offline augustin717

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Re: Help Translating St. Augustine
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2013, 11:11:34 PM »
Quote
Quid coniugium in paradiso fuisset, si progenitores non peccassent.

3. 6. Quamquam enim iam emissi de paradiso convenisse et genuisse commemorantur; tamen non video quid prohibere potuerit, ut essent eis etiam in paradiso honorabiles nuptiae, et torus immaculatus 11: hoc Deo praestante fideliter iusteque viventibus, eique obedienter sancteque servientibus, ut sine ullo inquieto ardore libidinis, sine ullo labore ac dolore pariendi, fetus ex eorum semine gigneretur; non ut morientibus parentibus filii succederent, sed ut illis qui genuissent in aliquo formae statu manentibus, et ex ligno vitae, quod ibi plantatum erat, corporalem vigorem sumentibus, et illi qui gignerentur ad eumdem perducerentur statum, donec certo numero impleto, si iuste omnes obedienterque viverent, tunc fieret illa commutatio, ut sine ulla morte animalia corpora conversa in aliam qualitatem, eo quod ad omnem nutum regenti se spiritui deservirent, et solo spiritu vivificante sine ullis alimentorum corporalibus sustentaculis viverent, spiritalia vocarentur. Potuit hoc fieri, si non praecepti transgressio mortis supplicium mereretur.

On what marriage would have been in paradise, if the ancestors had not sinned

Although they (forefathers) are remembered (in the scriptures) to have come together and to have given birth after being expelled from Paradise, I still can't see what could have hindered that even in Paradise marriage should have been honourable to them, and the bed undefiled.
This, God would grant to those living faithfully and justly, serving him in obedience and holiness, that without any troubling ardor of lust, without any labor or pain of birth-giving, offspring should be born from their seed. Not as sons succeed to mortal parents, but just as to those giving  birth, remaining in another form /appearance, and receiving corporeal strength from the tree of life planted there, so those that being born should be brought to the same estate, until, a certain number  be completed-if all lived justly and obediently- so that, that change should happen, that without any death, the animal bodies should be turned into another quality/estate, that in which they should serve to every command of the spirit and, solely through the life giving operation of the spirit, and without any corporeal food, they should live, so they (the bodies) should be called spiritual. This could have happened if  we hadn't incurred the penalty of death through the commandment's trespassing.
I did it in 10 min so i'm sure it can be improved at least as far as the english syntax goes. It should be broken into shorter sentences too.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2013, 11:14:27 PM by augustin717 »
She hears, upon that water without sound,
A voice that cries, “The tomb in Palestine
Is not the porch of spirits lingering.
It is the grave of Jesus, where he lay.”
We live in an old chaos of the sun,
Or old dependency of day and night,
Or island solitude, unsponsored, free,
Of that wide water, inescapable.

Offline JamesR

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Re: Help Translating St. Augustine
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2013, 11:16:50 PM »
Quote
Quid coniugium in paradiso fuisset, si progenitores non peccassent.

3. 6. Quamquam enim iam emissi de paradiso convenisse et genuisse commemorantur; tamen non video quid prohibere potuerit, ut essent eis etiam in paradiso honorabiles nuptiae, et torus immaculatus 11: hoc Deo praestante fideliter iusteque viventibus, eique obedienter sancteque servientibus, ut sine ullo inquieto ardore libidinis, sine ullo labore ac dolore pariendi, fetus ex eorum semine gigneretur; non ut morientibus parentibus filii succederent, sed ut illis qui genuissent in aliquo formae statu manentibus, et ex ligno vitae, quod ibi plantatum erat, corporalem vigorem sumentibus, et illi qui gignerentur ad eumdem perducerentur statum, donec certo numero impleto, si iuste omnes obedienterque viverent, tunc fieret illa commutatio, ut sine ulla morte animalia corpora conversa in aliam qualitatem, eo quod ad omnem nutum regenti se spiritui deservirent, et solo spiritu vivificante sine ullis alimentorum corporalibus sustentaculis viverent, spiritalia vocarentur. Potuit hoc fieri, si non praecepti transgressio mortis supplicium mereretur.

On what marriage would have been in paradise, if the ancestors had not sinned

Although they (forefathers) are remembered (in the scriptures) to have come together and to have given birth after being expelled from Paradise, I still can't see what could have hindered that even in Paradise marriage should have been honourable to them, and the bed undefiled.
This, God would grant to those living faithfully and justly, serving him in obedience and holiness, that without any troubling ardor of lust, without any labor or pain of birth-giving, offspring should be born from their seed. Not as sons succeed to mortal parents, but just as to those giving  birth, remaining in another form /appearance, and receiving corporeal strength from the tree of life planted there, so those that being born should be brought to the same estate, until, a certain number  be completed-if all lived justly and obediently- so that, that change should happen, that without any death, the animal bodies should be turned into another quality/estate, that in which they should serve to every command of the spirit and, solely through the life giving operation of the spirit, and without any corporeal food, they should live, so they (the bodies) should be called spiritual. This could have happened if  we hadn't incurred the penalty of death through the commandment's trespassing.
I did it in 10 min so i'm sure it can be improved at least as far as the english syntax goes. It should be broken into shorter sentences too.

Thanks Augustine; this works just fine :)