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Author Topic: Books on Metropolitan Philip  (Read 3069 times) Average Rating: 0
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Justin Kissel
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« on: October 09, 2002, 03:07:37 AM »

I read "Metropolitan Philip: His Life and His Dreams" by Peter Gillquist a few months back. If you're looking for a quick overview of Metro. Philip's life, this would be a good book. If you're looking for anything else (for example, a text that tries to look at Metro. Philip realistically), this book is to be avoided. When I'm reading about Father Arseny I don't mind reading page after page of goodness; but with some people, that kind of stuff just seems to be too much in conflict with reality. I know my Metropolitan isn't the most politically correct person alive, and I know he's used a lot of politics and participated in a fair share of tomfoolery during his time as Bishop. If anyone knows of a more realistic book about Metropolitan Philip, I'd love to hear about it.

A Servant of Metro. Philip,

Justin
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Dimitrius
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« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2002, 04:00:09 AM »

To all the Antiochian Orthodox out there;

God forgive me for saying this, but does it bother any one that Metropolitan Philip of the Antiochian Orthodox Church in North America is beardless and weras a suit instead of the traditional Cassock?

I have seen many pictures of him and it rubs me the wrong way when I see a suited Orthodox priest, let alone a Metropolitan. He looks no different than an Episcapalian or Catholic priest who wears the black jacket and pants - no beard.

I don't mean to judge, but in my opinion this is too much. Believe me when I tell you friends that the cassock alone is an excellent missionary tool on it's own. I can remember many times when our parish priest, who wears the traditional black robes ALL THE TIME when he is out of his house, has been stopped and asked if he was an Orthodox priest, and then the conversation usually leads to the person asking if he/she can come and visit the church.

Is it just me, or do others feel the same way about Metropolitan Philip Saliba??? I don't mean to offend anyone, but this is the way I feel.

Sinner,
Dimitrius
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SamB
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« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2002, 09:47:53 AM »

I agree very strongly.*

We both are familiar with how the metropolitan or Patriarch is treated like a king back home.  If he presents himself without the proper garb which is very much a sign of the office to which we owe reverence, it would be very unusual and a violation of our religious sensibilities.  Across the Atlantic, cultural protocol unfortunately is not strong enough to force the hierarchs to dress or necessarily act in the manner we are used to.

Dimitrius, you haven't replied back to my post.

*A hideous thought experiment: a clean shaven Pope Shnouda  in shorts and a t-shirt, clapping and dancing along to the tune of 'Amr Diab songs, high fiving the shabaab with youthful vigour and shouting, "Iz'zayak ya khooya!" behind shades.  Man, we're going to reel those young'uns into church, aren't we!

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« Last Edit: December 17, 2002, 12:27:58 PM by SamB » Logged
TonyS
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« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2002, 10:55:40 AM »

For those who are not quite clear what this looks like in practice, here is a link:

http://www.oca.org/pages/news/news.asp?ID=279

then "Click here for photos from the event." to see more pics.

He does seem to have a very small beard, while Bishop ANTOUN does not seem to have any.  

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« Last Edit: December 17, 2002, 10:58:33 AM by TonyS » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2002, 11:33:17 AM »

I think that Metropolitan Philip should be wearing a cassock since he is a Metropolitan and that is what they wear in the Orthodox church.  Perhaps I can see a priest who has a secular job to support his family not wearing a cassock all the time but I think that if one is a Metropolitan there is no excuse to not wear one.  Why is it that I get the feeling that some of our Hierarchs are ashamed to be Orthodox.  We as Orthodox have nothing to be ashamed of since we are the true church, so why does it seem then that  our hierarchs have an inferiority complex about Orthodoxy nowadays.
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Hypo-Ortho
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« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2002, 11:44:51 AM »

I agree very strongly.*

We both are familiar with how the metropolitan or Patriarch is treated like a king back home.  If he presents himself without the proper garb which is very much a sign of the office to which we owe reverence, it would be very unusual and a violation of our religious sensibilities.  Across the Atlantic, cultural protocol unfortunately is not strong enough to force the hierarchs to dress or necessarily act in the manner we are used to.
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Samer

I once watched a video wherein the Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Antioch, His Beatitude, IGNATIUS IV, arrived to serve the Patriarchal Divine Liturgy in a Montreal Antiochian Orthodox church.  The Patriarch entered the church wearing riassa and klobuk, as would any Orthodox hierarch.  His Eminence, Metropolitan PHILIP and His Grace, Bishop ANTOUN, his Auxiliary, however, entered the church--and even the Altar--in their business suits to vest for the Liturgy (they were even dressed in business suits for the procession with the Patriarch).  Meanwhile, some of the non-Orthodox guest clergy, such as the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Montreal, wore robes appropriate to their office in the entrance procession.  It just appeared so incongruous.

The pics of Metropolitan PHILIP and Bishop ANTOUN with His Beatitude, Metropolitan HERMAN and the staff of the OCA Chancery in Syosset appeared to be just as incongruous, especially in the St. Sergius Chapel in Syosset.  Metropolitan HERMAN wears riassa and klobuk and his clergy staff are robed in riassas, but Metropolitan PHILIP and Bishop ANTOUN are once again wearing their American business suits, giving themselves the outward appearance of non-Orthodox clerics.    Embarrassed

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« Last Edit: December 17, 2002, 11:54:46 AM by Hypo-Ortho » Logged
SamB
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« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2002, 11:55:29 AM »

Meanwhile, some of the non-Orthodox guest clergy, such as the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Montreal, wore robes appropriate to their office in the entrance procession.  It just appeared so incongruous.

Metropolitan Philip permitted himself to appear more liberal than Archbishop "call-me-Jean-Claude" Turcotte? He made the latter look traditional?!

Wait, I think I hear a howling blizzard down below us in Hell.

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Anastasios
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« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2002, 08:23:13 PM »

Here's my thought on the issue.

First of all, let's not attack Met. Phillip per se.  He is an excellent man personally and professionally has done a lot for this country's Orthodox Church.

As far as the mindset that causes him to dress the way he does (even to the extent that the last time he was in Syria, he was the ONLY Metropolitan wearing a business suit while the rest of them were vested in klobuks and riassas), I'd say it has to do with his immigrant past.  Such people wanted to make Orthodoxy American and wanted to bring America to Orthodoxy. A very noble goal that some should emulate who are content to never try and minister to people in the community.

I believe that America will either a) never be majority Orthodox so what's the point of trying to "fit in" or b) If America becomes Orthodox or Orthodoxy gains a strong foothold in America, then riassaed and klobuked clergy will be NORMAL.  Witness Hare Krishas who fit right in in contemporary America.

Also, the business suit thing just looks...cold.  We are not corporate America. We are not professionals.  We are Christians.  Some claim that the riassa is just "a garment from the Byzantine/Turkish/Greek past."  No, it's not.  It had its origins there, but so did vestments in the Roman Empire.  We didn't give those up, so why give up the riassa?  Business suits look cold.  I have seen priests in a line talking; people go to the riassaed priests first if they are in "mixed garb." People KNOW that a riassaed priest is "set aside."

I don't advocate that priests be OBLIGATED to wear riassas but I do not believe that some bishops should have outlawed their wearing on the street!  Let each do according to his conscience.

In Christ,

anastasios

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« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2002, 04:44:13 AM »

I think the whole discussion is silly.  I do not think St Paul wore a cassock, so what?  It is a cultural garment and nothing more.
Nilus
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« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2002, 08:14:14 AM »

I think the whole discussion is silly.  I do not think St Paul wore a cassock, so what?  It is a cultural garment and nothing more.
Nilus

A discussion is a discussion.  Who cares if it is about an "insignificant" issue like cassocks.  St. Paul didn't participate on internet forums, so what's your point?  The Church developed vestments and clergy garb, so it's a part of our small-t tradition and thus open for discussion as to whether it is relevant, should be modified, etc.  And I think it is important because I would not want to see all Orthodox priests looking like businessmen in their cold "uniforms"!

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« Last Edit: December 20, 2002, 08:15:54 AM by anastasios » Logged

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Hypo-Ortho
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« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2002, 10:07:52 AM »

I think the whole discussion is silly.  I do not think St Paul wore a cassock, so what?  It is a cultural garment and nothing more.
Nilus

Nilus, brother in Christ: Glory to Jesus Christ!

As Orthodox hierarchs are normally tonsured into the monastic order before their episcopal consecrations if they are not yet monks, they are then clothed in the "Angelic Habit" of monasticism after their election, most often immediately being elevated to the monastic rank of Archimandrite.  Orthodox bishops do not cease being monks after their elevation.  They should not, therefore, cease clothing themselves as monks daily and not in business suits.  The world, and they themselves, should see them and recognize them not only as Orthodox hierarchs but also as Orthodox monastics, IMHO.

Hypo-Ortho

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James the Just
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« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2002, 01:23:51 PM »

I thought Orthodoxy meant up holding tradition, I don't think the wearing of a business suit attracts people, it detracts from the message. The old ways is what attracted me, not the constant changing to the worldly ways and whims.

Peace in Christ,

James
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