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Peter89
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« on: November 16, 2013, 10:22:39 AM »

I have a friend who goes to a protestant church.

I mean, he’s a nice guy, he really believes in God, goes to church every Sunday, seriously thinks that he’s serving Jesus, prays every day.
But he’s a protestant, right?

So it means that he doesn’t make confessions to a priest, when protestants confess they just go on stage and pray, they don’t name their sins just raise they hands and pray. They gather in their church, some of them go on stage and preach about experiences they had, share their own view, give their interpretation on how to believe in God, a group of young people plays different Jesus-songs, they make marriages in this church, build families, they literally dedicate their lives to this faith, when I think about all this it seems to me like a total craziness, why are they doing this??

What does their dedication worth in the eyes of God? Will he say to them “I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!”?
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« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2013, 10:49:56 AM »

I have a friend who goes to a protestant church.

I mean, he’s a nice guy, he really believes in God, goes to church every Sunday, seriously thinks that he’s serving Jesus, prays every day.
But he’s a protestant, right?

So it means that he doesn’t make confessions to a priest, when protestants confess they just go on stage and pray, they don’t name their sins just raise they hands and pray. They gather in their church, some of them go on stage and preach about experiences they had, share their own view, give their interpretation on how to believe in God, a group of young people plays different Jesus-songs, they make marriages in this church, build families, they literally dedicate their lives to this faith, when I think about all this it seems to me like a total craziness, why are they doing this??

What does their dedication worth in the eyes of God? Will he say to them “I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!”?


Don't even try to figure it out.  The Bible says that God puts knowledge of himself in every heart.  What people do with what they are given (see the parable of the talents) cannot be judged by you or me.  The fullness of the faith resides in the Church, so follow what you have been given, work out your own salvation, and share the gospel through love whenever and wherever you can.  "To whom much is given, much shall be required."  Remember that God makes saints, not us.  
« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 10:52:27 AM by Yurysprudentsiya » Logged
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« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2013, 11:18:02 AM »

We have cooties and believe in the bogeyman - some of us even pick our noses.
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« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2013, 12:20:38 PM »

I have a friend who goes to a protestant church.

I mean, he’s a nice guy, he really believes in God, goes to church every Sunday, seriously thinks that he’s serving Jesus, prays every day.
But he’s a protestant, right?

So it means that he doesn’t make confessions to a priest, when protestants confess they just go on stage and pray, they don’t name their sins just raise they hands and pray. They gather in their church, some of them go on stage and preach about experiences they had, share their own view, give their interpretation on how to believe in God, a group of young people plays different Jesus-songs, they make marriages in this church, build families, they literally dedicate their lives to this faith, when I think about all this it seems to me like a total craziness, why are they doing this??

What does their dedication worth in the eyes of God? Will he say to them “I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!”?


Hi, Peter.  It's good that you're concerned for the soul of your friend.  I can relate, because I have many dear friends and family members who are still in heterodox churches.  It's important to remember that God loves them and desires their salvation.  It's also important to remember that they probably don't know anything about the Orthodox Church and are unaware that what they're doing has nothing to do with the Church Christ established.  This places them in a different category than those who have been deceived by the devil and have left the Orthodox Church for heterodoxy and heresy.  Pray for your friend and perhaps if it is God's will He will use you to introduce your friend to Orthodoxy.  It's not our place to say who will stand or fall before God when they are judged, but you are correct in identifying the deficiencies of the sort of church you have described.  Always remember the words of St. Theophan the Recluse, who has the answer to your question:

Quote
"You ask, will the heterodox be saved... Why do you worry about them? They have a Saviour Who desires the salvation of every human being. He will take care of them. You and I should not be burdened with such a concern. Study yourself and your own sins... I will tell you one thing, however: should you, being Orthodox and possessing the Truth in its fullness, betray Orthodoxy, and enter a different faith, you will lose your soul forever."
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« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2013, 12:54:23 PM »

Quote
Don't even try to figure it out.  The Bible says that God puts knowledge of himself in every heart.  What people do with what they are given (see the parable of the talents) cannot be judged by you or me.  The fullness of the faith resides in the Church, so follow what you have been given, work out your own salvation, and share the gospel through love whenever and wherever you can.  "To whom much is given, much shall be required."  Remember that God makes saints, not us.

Well said and agreed.
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« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2013, 01:00:03 PM »

What does their dedication worth in the eyes of God? Will he say to them “I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!”?


I think more people will hear this who thought about whether others would hear this than those who had read this and who didn't think about whether others would hear this

It's sorta the point of the passage, I think.
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« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2013, 02:27:02 PM »

I have a friend who goes to a protestant church.

I mean, he’s a nice guy, he really believes in God, goes to church every Sunday, seriously thinks that he’s serving Jesus, prays every day.
But he’s a protestant, right?

So it means that he doesn’t make confessions to a priest, when protestants confess they just go on stage and pray, they don’t name their sins just raise they hands and pray. They gather in their church, some of them go on stage and preach about experiences they had, share their own view, give their interpretation on how to believe in God, a group of young people plays different Jesus-songs, they make marriages in this church, build families, they literally dedicate their lives to this faith, when I think about all this it seems to me like a total craziness, why are they doing this??

What does their dedication worth in the eyes of God? Will he say to them “I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!”?


Remember, the Church is Israel. But Christ didn't find any faith in Israel whatsoever, when He arrived the first time. Only in the pagan Centurion did he find the greatest faith in Israel. Remember, Christ said: "When the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?" Luke 18:8 The Church has forsaken them, not God. And in many ways, they forsook the Church as well. Remember, among the elect of Israel, most rejected Christ.

St. Augustine said:  "How many sheep there are without, how many wolves within!"

As an example, I'll just cite Russia. I think I needn't say more.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 02:28:35 PM by xOrthodox4Christx » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2013, 03:24:37 PM »

I have a friend who goes to a protestant church.

I mean, he’s a nice guy, he really believes in God, goes to church every Sunday, seriously thinks that he’s serving Jesus, prays every day.
But he’s a protestant, right?

So it means that he doesn’t make confessions to a priest, when protestants confess they just go on stage and pray, they don’t name their sins just raise they hands and pray. They gather in their church, some of them go on stage and preach about experiences they had, share their own view, give their interpretation on how to believe in God, a group of young people plays different Jesus-songs, they make marriages in this church, build families, they literally dedicate their lives to this faith, when I think about all this it seems to me like a total craziness, why are they doing this??

What does their dedication worth in the eyes of God? Will he say to them “I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!”?


Remember, the Church is Israel. But Christ didn't find any faith in Israel whatsoever, when He arrived the first time. Only in the pagan Centurion did he find the greatest faith in Israel.

What?
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« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2013, 05:24:21 PM »


St. Augustine said:  "How many sheep there are without, how many wolves within!"


+1.  St Augustine knew what he was talking about.
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« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2013, 05:27:24 PM »

I have a friend who goes to a protestant church.

I mean, he’s a nice guy, he really believes in God, goes to church every Sunday, seriously thinks that he’s serving Jesus, prays every day.
But he’s a protestant, right?

So it means that he doesn’t make confessions to a priest, when protestants confess they just go on stage and pray, they don’t name their sins just raise they hands and pray. They gather in their church, some of them go on stage and preach about experiences they had, share their own view, give their interpretation on how to believe in God, a group of young people plays different Jesus-songs, they make marriages in this church, build families, they literally dedicate their lives to this faith, when I think about all this it seems to me like a total craziness, why are they doing this??

What does their dedication worth in the eyes of God? Will he say to them “I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!”?


Remember, the Church is Israel. But Christ didn't find any faith in Israel whatsoever, when He arrived the first time. Only in the pagan Centurion did he find the greatest faith in Israel. Remember, Christ said: "When the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?" Luke 18:8 The Church has forsaken them, not God. And in many ways, they forsook the Church as well. Remember, among the elect of Israel, most rejected Christ.

St. Augustine said:  "How many sheep there are without, how many wolves within!"

As an example, I'll just cite Russia. I think I needn't say more.
I think you need to say a lot more, since many here will likely have no idea what you're talking about regarding Russia. I have no idea what you're talking about. Huh
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« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2013, 06:33:07 PM »

I have a friend who goes to a protestant church.

I mean, he’s a nice guy, he really believes in God, goes to church every Sunday, seriously thinks that he’s serving Jesus, prays every day.
But he’s a protestant, right?

So it means that he doesn’t make confessions to a priest, when protestants confess they just go on stage and pray, they don’t name their sins just raise they hands and pray. They gather in their church, some of them go on stage and preach about experiences they had, share their own view, give their interpretation on how to believe in God, a group of young people plays different Jesus-songs, they make marriages in this church, build families, they literally dedicate their lives to this faith, when I think about all this it seems to me like a total craziness, why are they doing this??

What does their dedication worth in the eyes of God? Will he say to them “I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!”?


Hello Peter89. Welcome to OC.net  Smiley

May one ask what sort of Protestant Church in particular that it is that your friend attends?  Would you also be willing to expand on how you personally know what happens on Sundays there? 

I am rather puzzled by your idea of what "Protestants" do if they are confessing and the use of the word "stage".  Perhaps what you are describing is what some call a "mega-church" or some form of non-denominational one.  But that is not the extent of Churches that may be called Protestant in some way by a long chalk.

I would suggest that the people who attend this particular congregation are doing so to follow Jesus and walk in the way of God as they believe He is directing. 

Ebor
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« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2013, 02:31:51 AM »

I have a friend who goes to a protestant church.

I mean, he’s a nice guy, he really believes in God, goes to church every Sunday, seriously thinks that he’s serving Jesus, prays every day.
But he’s a protestant, right?

So it means that he doesn’t make confessions to a priest, when protestants confess they just go on stage and pray, they don’t name their sins just raise they hands and pray. They gather in their church, some of them go on stage and preach about experiences they had, share their own view, give their interpretation on how to believe in God, a group of young people plays different Jesus-songs, they make marriages in this church, build families, they literally dedicate their lives to this faith, when I think about all this it seems to me like a total craziness, why are they doing this??

What does their dedication worth in the eyes of God? Will he say to them “I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!”?


This is extremely judgmental and downright nasty.  How do you know The Lord won't say to you "I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!”?  Being Orthodox is NOT a "get into heaven free" card just as being Protestant is not automatic condemnation.  If this were the actual teaching of the Church, do you really think any of us Orthodox would be complacent to just sit by and let condemnation if them happen?  I think not.

You need to work out your salvation right now and worry less about the impending doom of your Protestant friend.
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« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2013, 11:05:49 PM »

Quote
Don't even try to figure it out.  The Bible says that God puts knowledge of himself in every heart.  What people do with what they are given (see the parable of the talents) cannot be judged by you or me.  The fullness of the faith resides in the Church, so follow what you have been given, work out your own salvation, and share the gospel through love whenever and wherever you can.  "To whom much is given, much shall be required."  Remember that God makes saints, not us. 

When I first became Orthodox, my first concern was my protestant friends and family.  The quote above is really spot on when they're talking about "What people do with what they are given cannot be judged by you or me."

That said, the best way someone will leave the faith they're familiar with to come to Orthodoxy is by our example in how we live our lives.
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« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2013, 06:04:04 PM »

when protestants confess they just go on stage and pray, they don’t name their sins just raise they hands and pray.

We do not normally name our sins publicly, and it would be very distasteful to do so. Our public prayers acknowledge our unworthiness and need of forgiveness, but in private we confess our sins specifically to the Lord and ask his personal forgiveness for them. If a person had somehow sinned against the church, and brought it into public disgrace, he or she might be expected to make a public confession and seek the church's forgiveness and restoration to fellowship, but that must be rather rare, and does not fall within the normal confessional prayers in a public service.

The raising of hands, though commended in Old and New Testaments, is not universally practised, and where it is, is not specifically associated with prayers of confession - more, usually, or adoration.
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