Author Topic: Racism against Christians in Russia?  (Read 6365 times)

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Offline Nektarios_In_E.S.

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Racism against Christians in Russia?
« on: November 15, 2013, 10:26:48 AM »
Hello everyone,

I was talking to a very good friend of mine from Latvia (or Russian descent) who was telling me that if ever I planned to visit Russia that I should be very careful because of the rise of racism -especially racist groups.  Now, me, being hispanic, she told me I would be confused (perhaps) with any of the asiatic peoples that surround Russia's borders.  I was surprised to say the least and I answered her: "but I'm Christian, what's more an Orthodox Christian!" She told me it would not matter.  I then posed: "what if I were to wear a t-shirt that has the Russian shield?" ( the two headed-eagle [ an old nike t-shirt for the soccer team]), I also have t-shirts that have crosses in them(from Church camp, for example).  She told me "still."  I was really let down.  In the end, I simply said to myself that I should just forget about ever wanting to visit Russia. 

I have wanted to find more information on the internet and, although I've read slightly different things, for the most part, I have found information that confirms my friend's warnings.

Perhaps one or many of your can enlighten me.  In particular, I am looking for good, informative answers from the following:
1. Russians
2. People of Russian descent who have seen this (or not)
3. Non-Russians who have visited Russia and seen the situation themselves (or not)
4. same as above applying to the neighboring countries like:
4a. Urkaine
4b. Byelorussia

Please, no emoticon, one-word answers or jokes.

Thank you kindly,
Nektarios

Offline mike

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Re: Racism against Christians in Russia?
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2013, 10:31:09 AM »
If you are an Arab visitting Russia might be not a wise idea indeed.

edit:

Oh, you are Hispanic.

Nevertheless, does not matter. There is still some possibility you will get confused by Russian patriotic Orthodox youth as Chechen or Ossetian or some other kind of "Black" and get beaten up.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 10:33:13 AM by Michał Kalina »
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Racism against Christians in Russia?
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2013, 10:33:59 AM »
Most of Russia is Atheist anyway. I wouldn't pay too much attention to that.
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Offline rakovsky

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Re: Racism against Christians in Russia?
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2013, 11:12:41 AM »
If you are going with a tour group it is unlikely you will have problems. If you wear an Orthodox shirt it will give you Holy Armor Protection +10. If you unleash the "Ya Pravoslavny" Warrior Cry you will defeat all enemies in the Russian level.

I think if you got through all the Hispanic levels you will find the Russian one pretty easy.

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« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 11:16:40 AM by rakovsky »
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Re: Racism against Christians in Russia?
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2013, 11:25:13 AM »
Are Russians smart enough to discern an Indian from any of these other groups?  No Indians I know in Russia have ever mentioned this problem.

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Re: Racism against Christians in Russia?
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2013, 11:40:18 AM »
I don't know where you are from. But all of Europe is more racist than anywhere I've lived in the States. And once you leave Europe for even more backward places like Russia, I dunno. Best of luck.

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Re: Racism against Christians in Russia?
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2013, 11:49:06 AM »
I don't know where you are from. But all of Europe is more racist than anywhere I've lived in the States. And once you leave Europe for even more backward places like Russia, I dunno. Best of luck.

That's what I've been told by every European I've ever known.  It's a different kind of racism than we have in the States, too, which makes it even more jarring.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 11:49:18 AM by Schultz »
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Re: Racism against Christians in Russia?
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2013, 12:07:24 PM »
I don't know where you are from. But all of Europe is more racist than anywhere I've lived in the States. And once you leave Europe for even more backward places like Russia, I dunno. Best of luck.

That's what I've been told by every European I've ever known.  It's a different kind of racism than we have in the States, too, which makes it even more jarring.

Romanians (as well as our Balcanic or Slavic neighbours, I believe) generally treat strangers better than they treat each other. Unless we're talking familiar "strangers" with whom we share common history - even with those there are degrees of sympathy and/or antipathy: Bulgarians or Serbs would be preferred to Hungarians, Gypsies or Russians, for instance. For Germans, there's a distant admiration. People from more exotic lands are usually welcome.     

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Re: Racism against Christians in Russia?
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2013, 01:20:16 PM »
I don't know where you are from. But all of Europe is more racist than anywhere I've lived in the States. And once you leave Europe for even more backward places like Russia, I dunno. Best of luck.

This is true.  I think the perception of racism is greater in the US.  Ethnic French and Italians are some of the most racist people I have met.  This is my experience, so apologies to non-racist French and Italians for being lumped into my stereotype. 
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Re: Racism against Christians in Russia?
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2013, 01:55:14 PM »
I don't know where you are from. But all of Europe is more racist than anywhere I've lived in the States. And once you leave Europe for even more backward places like Russia, I dunno. Best of luck.

That's what I've been told by every European I've ever known.  It's a different kind of racism than we have in the States, too, which makes it even more jarring.

In short Schultzie, I would say that most Western European countries have less institutional discrimination than we do (India is another excellent example of the disconnect between daily discrimination and radical institutional reform), but on the day to day basis, it is crazy.

And I grew up for a time where I kid you not, I lived in a de facto segregated area. My church would send blacks to the black church and vice versa.

In Europe, the open and vocal use of racist names and the like was bizarre. I think the situation in France is currently blowing up again.

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Racism against Christians in Russia?
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2013, 02:00:21 PM »
I don't know where you are from. But all of Europe is more racist than anywhere I've lived in the States. And once you leave Europe for even more backward places like Russia, I dunno. Best of luck.

That's what I've been told by every European I've ever known.  It's a different kind of racism than we have in the States, too, which makes it even more jarring.

Romanians (as well as our Balcanic or Slavic neighbours, I believe) generally treat strangers better than they treat each other. Unless we're talking familiar "strangers" with whom we share common history - even with those there are degrees of sympathy and/or antipathy: Bulgarians or Serbs would be preferred to Hungarians, Gypsies or Russians, for instance. For Germans, there's a distant admiration. People from more exotic lands are usually welcome.     

This is true and a cross cultural phenomena. But the open racial hostility in Europe was rather remarkable. Then again, unlike the US, most of Europe has been rather racial homogeneous. I mean you people thought Jews were not acceptable.

In Ohio, I would like to find someone who isn't a transplant from NYC, NJ, or Florida who has jewdar which is at all accurate. Jews here are "white". And we have "plenty" of them. Latinos, pretty much the same. It is quite different than what you find in the SW regarding attitudes toward Latinos. Again we have neighborhoods here which are Latino so much that the default language on the street signs and the like is Spanish.

Blacks, well, institutionally it is as if they are of another species.

Offline Schultz

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Re: Racism against Christians in Russia?
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2013, 02:13:50 PM »
I don't know where you are from. But all of Europe is more racist than anywhere I've lived in the States. And once you leave Europe for even more backward places like Russia, I dunno. Best of luck.

That's what I've been told by every European I've ever known.  It's a different kind of racism than we have in the States, too, which makes it even more jarring.

In short Schultzie, I would say that most Western European countries have less institutional discrimination than we do (India is another excellent example of the disconnect between daily discrimination and radical institutional reform), but on the day to day basis, it is crazy.

And I grew up for a time where I kid you not, I lived in a de facto segregated area. My church would send blacks to the black church and vice versa.

In Europe, the open and vocal use of racist names and the like was bizarre. I think the situation in France is currently blowing up again.

Yep, sounds about right.
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Racism against Christians in Russia?
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2013, 02:19:42 PM »
Are Russians smart enough to discern an Indian from any of these other groups?  No Indians I know in Russia have ever mentioned this problem.

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Offline Nektarios_In_E.S.

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« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2013, 03:05:48 PM »
Quote
If you are going with a tour group it is unlikely you will have problems. If you wear an Orthodox shirt it will give you Holy Armor Protection +10. If you unleash the "Ya Pravoslavny" Warrior Cry you will defeat all enemies in the Russian level.

he he he  :) thank you for the lighthearted answer.  I actually have a few "Orthodox" shirts -I have actually always loved symbols with crosses.  I also have a Serbian shirt with the two-headed eagle, the shield with the CCCC cross and a sword -I actually love this shirt as it was a gift from a family friend who is Serbian.  I also have my necklace with an Orthodox Cross so -like Henry V said before he was to go into the famous battle of Agincourt, "we're not in their hands, we're in God's hands."  I cannot see how the Lord God cannot protect me, especially if I would be going on good faith.  By the way, in sports, I also support Russia.  I was very happy when they won the beach football tournament in Tahiti.

Quote
I think if you got through all the Hispanic levels you will find the Russian one pretty easy

Can you please elaborate a bit more on this ( ? ), I did not quite understand you.  Also, I hear that Russians and other Eastern Europeans are really into the 'novelas' (the soap operas from Latin America).  If I were to visit, I would obviously speak spanish (though not loud so as to not bother people) whether it be my friends or family members -whomever I would go with.


Offline Yurysprudentsiya

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Re: Racism against Christians in Russia?
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2013, 03:35:29 PM »
I don't know where you are from. But all of Europe is more racist than anywhere I've lived in the States. And once you leave Europe for even more backward places like Russia, I dunno. Best of luck.

That's what I've been told by every European I've ever known.  It's a different kind of racism than we have in the States, too, which makes it even more jarring.

I think it is because they are so ethnically homogeneous in those parts.   People tell me that it is not uncommon to point and stare at an African person like an exhibit in a zoo, because Africans are not common in Eastern Europe.  When I was there, someone asked me what I thought about the fact that the president of the USA is black -- and I could tell he wasn't referring to the progress it shows in our nations history.   Kids in schools read translated versions of Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn but the issue of slavery isn't criticized, just presented as, in those times that what they did.  Or people say that a Jewish person smells different from a Slav.  It is ignorance more than anything.  But in some parts of Russia and Ukraine for sure you have xenophobia against Jews, Muslims, non Europeans to a great degree.  I've never seen anything personally beyond what would be insulting or stupid but which clearly comes from ignorance and is not meant to be hateful.   But I have heard of some brutal gangs of youths with a chip on their shoulder and something to prove. 

Offline rakovsky

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Re: rakovsky
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2013, 06:54:04 PM »
Quote
If you are going with a tour group it is unlikely you will have problems. If you wear an Orthodox shirt it will give you Holy Armor Protection +10. If you unleash the "Ya Pravoslavny" Warrior Cry you will defeat all enemies in the Russian level.

he he he  :) thank you for the lighthearted answer.  I actually have a few "Orthodox" shirts -I have actually always loved symbols with crosses.  I also have a Serbian shirt with the two-headed eagle, the shield with the CCCC cross and a sword -I actually love this shirt as it was a gift from a family friend who is Serbian.  I also have my necklace with an Orthodox Cross so -like Henry V said before he was to go into the famous battle of Agincourt, "we're not in their hands, we're in God's hands."  I cannot see how the Lord God cannot protect me, especially if I would be going on good faith.  By the way, in sports, I also support Russia.  I was very happy when they won the beach football tournament in Tahiti.

Quote
I think if you got through all the Hispanic levels you will find the Russian one pretty easy

Can you please elaborate a bit more on this ( ? ), I did not quite understand you.  Also, I hear that Russians and other Eastern Europeans are really into the 'novelas' (the soap operas from Latin America).  If I were to visit, I would obviously speak spanish (though not loud so as to not bother people) whether it be my friends or family members -whomever I would go with.
It is fun writing with you. It is OK to speak different languages. Probably some people will be interested in who you are.

What I meant is that if you can get by in Latin American countries, Russia will notbe that dangerous. I heard that in Latin American countries sometimes in you are in a bus in a rural area a gang will take the bus hostage and take everyone's money and then let the bus go on. Russia is not like that.
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Racism against Christians in Russia?
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2013, 08:14:11 PM »
Another interesting phenomenon that happens when Eastern Europeans get to say, the US, is that they tend to become whither than the local whites in a way. I mean the can be so obnoxiously and embarrassingly lout about their racial prejudices. I've tried to explain it to a few that if they were judged by the and yardstick they wouldn't fare so well. In general a translation process happens where all gypsy folklore and prejudices they carried over from back home is now applied to the darker people found here.
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Offline Romaios

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Re: Racism against Christians in Russia?
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2013, 04:12:54 PM »
I mean you people thought Jews were not acceptable.

In Ohio, I would like to find someone who isn't a transplant from NYC, NJ, or Florida who has jewdar which is at all accurate. Jews here are "white". 

Well, Jews sure did like us...

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« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 04:21:48 PM by Romaios »

Offline Nektarios_In_E.S.

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rakovsky
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2013, 04:27:51 PM »
Quote
It is fun writing with you. It is OK to speak different languages. Probably some people will be interested in who you are.

Oh thank you! It is actually nice to read all of the responses I've gotten from everyone, including yourself!  :)  Well, if people would be interested in who I am, even better!  I would be most glad to share with them.  If I were to visit, my purposes would definitely be cultural, learning and religious.  Aside from visiting Churches, I would also love to see the art museums, visit concert halls -as I'm also a big fan of classical music -and the Russian composers are obviously world-renown.  Taste the cuisine, etc. Overall, a real cultural experience.

Quote
What I meant is that if you can get by in Latin American countries, Russia will notbe that dangerous. I heard that in Latin American countries sometimes in you are in a bus in a rural area a gang will take the bus hostage and take everyone's money and then let the bus go on. Russia is not like that.

Yes, actually you are very close to the truth.  One does have to be a bit careful and look at all sides.  Of course, there are safe and dangerous places to go to but I definitely get your point.

Thank you again for the advise.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 04:31:23 PM by Nektarios_In_E.S. »

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Re: Racism against Christians in Russia?
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2013, 04:30:20 PM »
I mean you people thought Jews were not acceptable.

In Ohio, I would like to find someone who isn't a transplant from NYC, NJ, or Florida who has jewdar which is at all accurate. Jews here are "white". 

Well, Jews sure did like us...

Rumenye, Rumenye

Another version with targum (a karnatsele though is "sausage", not "a girl with a pug nose")

Yiddish lyrics

English accent is awful.
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Re: Racism against Christians in Russia?
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2013, 04:50:37 PM »
Don't Russians tan?
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Offline Alpo

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Re: Racism against Christians in Russia?
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2013, 05:13:22 PM »
I don't know where you are from. But all of Europe is more racist than anywhere I've lived in the States. And once you leave Europe for even more backward places like Russia, I dunno. Best of luck.

That's what I've been told by every European I've ever known.  It's a different kind of racism than we have in the States, too, which makes it even more jarring.

In short Schultzie, I would say that most Western European countries have less institutional discrimination than we do (India is another excellent example of the disconnect between daily discrimination and radical institutional reform), but on the day to day basis, it is crazy.

And I grew up for a time where I kid you not, I lived in a de facto segregated area. My church would send blacks to the black church and vice versa.

In Europe, the open and vocal use of racist names and the like was bizarre. I think the situation in France is currently blowing up again.

Yep, sounds about right.

Apparently you have lived in a very different Europe than I do.
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Offline Romaios

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Re: Racism against Christians in Russia?
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2013, 12:20:30 PM »
English accent is awful.

Well, Yiddish with a Polish accent is sort of extinct - with the notable exception of Chava Alberstein.

Offline FormerCalvinist

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Re: Racism against Christians in Russia?
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2013, 12:29:49 PM »
I watched a short documentary about this not too long ago. It detailed how certain skinhead groups will go around and assault foreigners, and not just Arabs either. They talked to a white Englishman who was attacked because he was not Slavic.

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Re: Racism against Christians in Russia?
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2013, 12:33:18 PM »
I don't know where you are from. But all of Europe is more racist than anywhere I've lived in the States. And once you leave Europe for even more backward places like Russia, I dunno. Best of luck.

That's what I've been told by every European I've ever known.  It's a different kind of racism than we have in the States, too, which makes it even more jarring.

In short Schultzie, I would say that most Western European countries have less institutional discrimination than we do (India is another excellent example of the disconnect between daily discrimination and radical institutional reform), but on the day to day basis, it is crazy.

And I grew up for a time where I kid you not, I lived in a de facto segregated area. My church would send blacks to the black church and vice versa.

In Europe, the open and vocal use of racist names and the like was bizarre. I think the situation in France is currently blowing up again.

Yep, sounds about right.

Apparently you have lived in a very different Europe than I do.

Yeah, places which are slightly less racial homogeneous than your nordic world.

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Re: Racism against Christians in Russia?
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2013, 12:38:12 PM »
Yeah, places which are slightly less racial homogeneous than your nordic world.
This made me laugh.

Finn 1:  "No one ever called me a [racial epithet]!"
Finn 2:  "Me neither!"
Finn 1:  "Hmm, racism doesn't exist."
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Re: Racism against Christians in Russia?
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2013, 12:40:55 PM »
Yeah, places which are slightly less racial homogeneous than your nordic world.

My nordic world is not so homogenous anymore due to influx of immigration. Not as much as some other countries but anyway those that I've interviewed had not encountered much racism here. And I'm not talking about Swedes, Russians and Estonians but Somalis, Kurds and Moroccons. We have our idiots but not massive daily discrimination.
I just need to find out how to say it in Slavonic!

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Re: Racism against Christians in Russia?
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2013, 12:45:31 PM »

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Re: Racism against Christians in Russia?
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2013, 12:53:14 PM »
Yeah, places which are slightly less racial homogeneous than your nordic world.
This made me laugh.

Finn 1:  "No one ever called me a [racial epithet]!"
Finn 2:  "Me neither!"
Finn 1:  "Hmm, racism doesn't exist."
(Begin liquor binge)

When I messing around in a NE very liberal college town, I would laugh when I saw the Fight Racism bumper stickers. And I was considered a racist often when I spoke about racial matters, cause I actually have lived as a racial minority and see no reason to pretend as though the color of our blood makes us all the same.

I had enough of mine spilled to prove my blood was red too, that didn't seem to redress the complex structure of racial relations and problems created over milennia for some reason.

Offline mike

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Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?
"No one is paying attention to your post reports"
Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

Offline Alpo

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Re: Racism against Christians in Russia?
« Reply #31 on: November 19, 2013, 01:03:50 PM »
Yeah, places which are slightly less racial homogeneous than your nordic world.
This made me laugh.

Finn 1:  "No one ever called me a [racial epithet]!"
Finn 2:  "Me neither!"
Finn 1:  "Hmm, racism doesn't exist."
(Begin liquor binge)

More like:

Finn: "Have you ever encountered racism?"
Somali: "No."
Moroccan: "No."
Bangladeshi: "No."
Kurd: "No."

etc.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2013, 01:05:05 PM by Alpo »
I just need to find out how to say it in Slavonic!

Offline brastaseptim

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Re: Racism against Christians in Russia?
« Reply #32 on: November 19, 2013, 01:19:32 PM »
I watched a short documentary about this not too long ago. It detailed how certain skinhead groups will go around and assault foreigners, and not just Arabs either. They talked to a white Englishman who was attacked because he was not Slavic.

I better not go to Russia then- with my obviously English accent, bad Ukrainian-sounding grasp of mangled Church Slavonic, and German looks, I'd be a sitting duck!
BBC news certified; The Guardian rejected; OC.net approved.

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Racism against Christians in Russia?
« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2013, 01:24:02 PM »
Other than rich white guys who want to purchase a wife, I am not sure of the attraction of Russia. Or rich white guys wanting to get richer of course.

Offline Romaios

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Re: Racism against Christians in Russia?
« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2013, 01:36:17 PM »
Other than rich white guys who want to purchase a wife, I am not sure of the attraction of Russia. Or rich white guys wanting to get richer of course.

Romanian pilgrims flock in their hundreds to Holy Russia each summer. Some spend months on buses to get there and back again and go as far as Solovetsky or the Trinity Lavra in Sergiyev Posad.

Offline augustin717

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Re: Racism against Christians in Russia?
« Reply #35 on: November 19, 2013, 02:03:25 PM »
I know an American guy that moved to Russia in order to marry a real Russian orthodox woman. He did it. Even before that though he had the allure of a nineteen century muzhik (beard and clothes and excessively humble humility). Those things happen.
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Offline mike

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Re: Racism against Christians in Russia?
« Reply #36 on: November 19, 2013, 02:44:09 PM »
I know an American guy that moved to Russia in order to marry a real Russian orthodox woman. He did it. Even before that though he had the allure of a nineteen century muzhik (beard and clothes and excessively humble humility). Those things happen.

I've read one article about similar issue on Pravmir. Extreme LARPing.
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Racism against Christians in Russia?
« Reply #37 on: November 19, 2013, 02:48:54 PM »
I think some posters here have gone native so to speak. They fit the socio-economic class I mentioned above.