Author Topic: 4 reasons not to become Orthodox  (Read 2446 times)

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Online Arachne

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Re: 4 reasons not to become Orthodox
« Reply #45 on: November 27, 2013, 03:27:58 PM »
LOL. No hipsters in Catholicism, you say?

So tempted to drop a link to Death to the World in there and watch the shrapnel fly...
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: 4 reasons not to become Orthodox
« Reply #46 on: November 27, 2013, 03:50:47 PM »
LOL. No hipsters in Catholicism, you say?

So tempted to drop a link to Death to the World in there and watch the shrapnel fly...

Death to the World is pretty silly but I wouldn't call them hipsters... they chiefly emerged from the metal/ punk scenes. One of the founders, Justin Marler, was a guitarist in the doom/ stoner metal band Sleep before he became a monk.

Offline Robotron 2084

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Re: 4 reasons not to become Orthodox
« Reply #47 on: November 27, 2013, 04:01:39 PM »
I can sympathize/empathize with you. I won't go into details, but I am sincere when I say that.

One way of looking at salvation is as a form of healing. Generally we have different things that we need healed of. Some people don't think they need to be healed of anything in particular. If it helps you could think of your current struggles, confusion to understand/find answers etc. as the sickness. Even if you don't believe it entirely, let's say you go along with it and are willing to give a proposed cure a shot just to see how it goes. Now, I guess the question is, are you willing to take the medicine. For example, you said:

I'm surprised but thankful to hear you say that.  It is very hard to know what is going on, or what is expected of you.
The last time I changed religions (I wanted to study the bible) they were very aggressive, had it all planned out etc.
It was very easy to convert.  Perhaps I'm unfairly comparing that to Orthodox, which seems very different (difficult to convert to).

Thanks for trying to define salvation for me, as well.  I'm thinking that is something to be worked on after you have been around for awhile,
but I'm not sure about using it as a reason to convert, because you can almost never get there.  It seems a bit abstract.

I did do some research and found something saying: "Christianity is a life-long pursuit of virtue."
http://www.stjohndc.org/Russian/what/WhatE/e_WayApart.htm

That's the first thing I ever found, to be something I can grasp on to. 
That's actually a goal, not a negation; but it's the first and only one I've ever found so far.
It is strange, because this article talks about undoing a lot of RC thinking.
That may be the real problem. 
Looking at an Orthodox reality on top of RC assumptions is truly horrifying, sometimes.
I just don't know how to fix all that, yet.
But, at least I'm starting to figure out what the real problem might be.

to be continued......
The human race is inefficient, and therefore must be destroyed.

Offline Robotron 2084

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Re: 4 reasons not to become Orthodox
« Reply #48 on: November 27, 2013, 04:15:57 PM »
I'm not really interested in being pious at all.  I'm just looking for the bare minimum.  

If you want to be healed, piety is a key element. Not a false piety where you trumpet how great your are or your church is or whatever. Real piety, involving the virtues like faith and love and humility. Doing the bare minimum to treat a sickness, at least of this kind, will usually leave you continuing to be sick.

This way of putting things is clumsy, but people seem to like that language. Maybe I do as well, I dunno. Anyway, my point is, I can give more thoughts on this, but I don't think I can give you an answer that will just make everything "click". I can point in a direction, tell you how you might be able to get there, maybe, but I can't guarantee anything. If you want me to go on I certainly will.
I'm sorry about that old quote, but it needs to be put into context somehow.
I once joined a bible study group that were complete zealots, and every part of their lives revolved around religion
I want to be a part of a church, but I don't want to be a zealot.
I'd like to have a life in the secular world as well.
In that sense, I can say that most RC's purposely avoid the bible; and I'm not sure how much the Orthodox study it, either.

To me, "piety" seems like putting on a display in church.  "Virtue" sounds better to me.
I'm not really interested in putting on a display (of piety), but I do want to have real virtue.
Sometimes people appear to be overly judgmental, when you don't do the rituals properly.

However, I really do like the idea of "pursuing Virtue" as a goal.
Thank you though, your comments here were very helpful to me.
The human race is inefficient, and therefore must be destroyed.

Offline Robotron 2084

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Re: 4 reasons not to become Orthodox
« Reply #49 on: November 27, 2013, 04:27:26 PM »
I stepped away from both Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy to evaluate each.
I took the red pill and ended up back in Roman Catholicism.
It aint pretty like the 'reality' Neo went back to. But its real. No hipsters.

Thanks for your understanding, earlier.
This is a difficult comparison for me, because Roman Catholicism seems irrelevant to the issue.
If I go to the Orthodox Church for 3-6 hrs, and then go to RC for 45 minutes;
going to the Orthodox Church makes the RC Mass seem much more interesting to me.

I had a friend drag me back to the RC church a few weeks ago (for 45 minutes), but it just left total emptiness.
Nothing can fill that, like the Orthodox Church can; but it is just way too scary for me, sometimes.
I just with I could go there without feeling negatively "judged" all the time.
I want to be invisible in church.
The human race is inefficient, and therefore must be destroyed.

Offline mike

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Re: 4 reasons not to become Orthodox
« Reply #50 on: November 27, 2013, 04:51:34 PM »
What do you do in the Orthodox Church for 6 hours?

Offline Robotron 2084

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Re: 4 reasons not to become Orthodox
« Reply #51 on: November 27, 2013, 05:03:05 PM »
What do you do in the Orthodox Church for 6 hours?

I meant for a weekend.  You have 3 hours on Saturday night 6pm-9pm.
and then 3 hours on Sunday Morning 9am-12pm.

Sometimes I also go the the Roman Catholic church, either from 4-5pm on Saturday
or also they have one from 5-6pm on Sunday if I miss that one.

The human race is inefficient, and therefore must be destroyed.

Offline Martyr Eugenia

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Re: 4 reasons not to become Orthodox
« Reply #52 on: November 27, 2013, 05:04:15 PM »
 
What do you do in the Orthodox Church for 6 hours?

 :o

Orthros, wait through confessions, Divine Liturgy, announcements, name day/anniversaries/saint day celebration, coffee hour(s).

Offline Robotron 2084

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Re: 4 reasons not to become Orthodox
« Reply #53 on: November 27, 2013, 06:21:26 PM »
Robo, the "fear and trembling" is our choice....out of the huge respect and awe we have for God....not because He is a terrorizing and angry God, as you put it.

Often times, people lose that "fear and trembling"....and that's when you start seeing the callousness towards God, the joking around, the silliness, and the disrespect starts crawling in.

Therefore, if you notice you no longer fear God, or are no longer trembling when contemplating His awesome nature, than you need to stop and re-evaluate yourself and see what is lacking.

Society today teaches us that everything and everyone is our equal.  Nobody is greater than "me".  However, God will always be greater and we often forget that.

Dear Lisa,
Thanks for clarifying that.  I'd like to hope that "fear and trembling" would be voluntary, and it is good to know it was meant that way.
But, sometimes is appears like they try to induce that in you on purpose, you know?
Next time they try that, I will lecture the priest; and tell him that the fear he just struck in me was "supposed" to be voluntary.
That means I will have to recharge my batteries (do some more cardio workouts),
before I go back to church, though.
Because the last time I tried that, he ran out of the church, chasing after me,
yelling and screaming at me, and I have to make sure I can outrun him,
before I ever think about trying something like that, again.  :o ??? ::)


 >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Excuse me, but isn't the Fear of God supposed to be voluntary?
 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
Oops, I'd better get out of here, bye bye.
 :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The human race is inefficient, and therefore must be destroyed.

Offline Maria

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Re: 4 reasons not to become Orthodox
« Reply #54 on: November 27, 2013, 06:24:11 PM »

Robo, the "fear and trembling" is our choice....out of the huge respect and awe we have for God....not because He is a terrorizing and angry God, as you put it.

Often times, people lose that "fear and trembling"....and that's when you start seeing the callousness towards God, the joking around, the silliness, and the disrespect starts crawling in.

Therefore, if you notice you no longer fear God, or are no longer trembling when contemplating His awesome nature, than you need to stop and re-evaluate yourself and see what is lacking.

Society today teaches us that everything and everyone is our equal.  Nobody is greater than "me".  However, God will always be greater and we often forget that.


Excellent points.
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Offline Clemente

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Re: 4 reasons not to become Orthodox
« Reply #55 on: December 03, 2013, 05:18:22 PM »
That was boring. I wish part of the chatechumenal period would include lessons on why converts shouldn't write about their experience. Just because Peter Gilquist did it doesn't mean you should. I mean, Anne Frank got her diary published after she died, but to the dismay of 12 year old girls everywhere, theirs never will be because society will never care about how much they <333333 Justin Beiber. Orthodox converts should learn from Anne Frank: You have to be in some interesting circumstances to make your life worth reading about if you're a nobody. Having been Protestant or Catholic is not interesting. Becoming Orthodox is not interesting. Step away from the blog.
Great advice.

I fear, however, that such lessons would be entirely futile. Speaking from personal experience, there is a almost irresistible desire for the convert to expatiate on his conversion experience. After all, it is a big decision and sharing about life-changing experiences is a fairly human desire. Perhaps by writing about the experience, it makes the conversion more genuine and the de conversion less tempting.

I find sharing my experience helps to reduce the likelihood of "buyer's remorse".

Offline Misplaced Book

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Re: 4 reasons not to become Orthodox
« Reply #56 on: December 04, 2013, 06:52:33 AM »

I am here to explain it is not easy becoming Orthodox, I didnt reject it so much as it was not very welcoming. There were a few hipsters, but not THE reason. I've been a Christian all my life, wandering in and out of several denoms and non-denoms. I've seen, heard, read about almost every variation. Orthodoxy has some nice looking bait they dangle before you, but you can only suffer the teasing for so long before you are a dead fish. I am resuscitating nicely at my Catholic parish. I want to be honest in that I am not that smart, I do not know how many more years of studying it would have taken me to be acceptable to become Orthodox. The catechism is vague, seemingly unending, going nowhere very slowly. 90% was review. I also had trouble dealing with foreign nomenclature.

The Christian life isn't easy, period.   Your posts have a hint of bitterness.  I don't say this to judge you or condemn you, but merely to point out that you were hurt by your experience obviously. 

The Catechumenate varies in length, depending on the person, the priest and a whole host of factors.  It is about Unlearning things, as well as learning them.  God knows when we are ready, and he tells us.   I truly am sorry that you had a bad experience.

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: 4 reasons not to become Orthodox
« Reply #57 on: December 04, 2013, 08:27:18 AM »
What do you do in the Orthodox Church for 6 hours?

I meant for a weekend.  You have 3 hours on Saturday night 6pm-9pm.
and then 3 hours on Sunday Morning 9am-12pm.

Sometimes I also go the the Roman Catholic church, either from 4-5pm on Saturday
or also they have one from 5-6pm on Sunday if I miss that one.



I'm sorry about your bad experience, but we have a fairly large congregation and the priest is the only person spending six hours in church as you describe. That is the typical reality.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 08:27:49 AM by podkarpatska »

Offline Robotron 2084

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Re: 4 reasons not to become Orthodox
« Reply #58 on: December 04, 2013, 10:23:45 PM »
I'm sorry about your bad experience, but we have a fairly large congregation and the priest is the only person spending six hours in church as you describe. That is the typical reality.

I wish it was merely about a bad experience.  It would be nice to know how to have a good experience or even a tolerable one. 
I originally wanted to do everything possible to convert.  But, now I feel like I've been driven out of there.
I guess I'm not qualified to join the church, and people seem to get upset at me just for trying to go there as an observer.
I wish I knew how to fix it, but I'm terrified about merely walking in the door.
I was about to say that I'd be better off walking in there with a bag over my head,
but then it could be mistaken as a balaclava, and things would get even worse.

I just don't understand or cannot understand WHY this happened?
How come so many people on here have easy or positive experiences in the church
and I'm forced to have one so negative, that I'm traumatized even about the idea of ever going back;
and yet I still want to, and wish there was a way to make everything right, again.
The human race is inefficient, and therefore must be destroyed.

Offline mike

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Re: 4 reasons not to become Orthodox
« Reply #59 on: January 29, 2014, 12:52:10 PM »