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Author Topic: 4 reasons not to become Orthodox  (Read 2057 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: November 15, 2013, 10:14:16 AM »

There is perhaps nothing which is more painful, and obnoxious, than someone believing that they understand why you believe something that you do.  For anyone who believes anything, this is an understandable problem.  If you believe in God (or god, or spirits, or even just an afterlife) you’re used to the annoying commentary from the proverbial peanut-gallery remarking on how foolish your fear and superstition is.  However, it doesn’t just stop there.  Even someone who simply believes that they and those around them really exist is open to the irritating voice from the crowd proclaiming their foolish fear of the reality of the nothing which sits beyond their happy fiction of reality...
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« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2013, 10:18:37 AM »

I liked it more than I thought I would  angel
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« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2013, 10:25:21 AM »

Christians must have a serious peanut allergy to be bothered by the Planter's snack pack scattered across the world that makes this so-called gallery. Having a very serious allergy I can certainly relate to the misery of what a few ppms of substance can do.

Perhaps an epipen should be mandatory.
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« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2013, 10:26:27 AM »

Hipsterdom is something I struggle with. lol Becoming Orthodox means 'becoming' a minority, at least in the US; which would be an interesting experience.

I certainly like the Divine Liturgy, but it only falls into the mix when I compare practice, doctrine, and ecclesiology, as well as history to other Christian denominations.
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« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2013, 10:58:26 AM »

Quote
Hipsterdom is something I struggle with. lol Becoming Orthodox means 'becoming' a minority, at least in the US; which would be an interesting experience.

So joining a minority church that most americans have no knowledge of isn't hipster?
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« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2013, 11:07:47 AM »

Hipsterdom is something I struggle with. lol Becoming Orthodox means 'becoming' a minority, at least in the US; which would be an interesting experience.

Being a minority in the US is an interesting experience.  You'll have to do a lot more than convert to Orthodoxy in order to become a minority, though. 

Quote
I certainly like the Divine Liturgy, but it only falls into the mix when I compare practice, doctrine, and ecclesiology, as well as history to other Christian denominations.

What does this mean?
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« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2013, 11:27:12 AM »

Hipsterdom is something I struggle with. lol Becoming Orthodox means 'becoming' a minority, at least in the US; which would be an interesting experience.

Being a minority in the US is an interesting experience.  You'll have to do a lot more than convert to Orthodoxy in order to become a minority, though. 

Quote
I certainly like the Divine Liturgy, but it only falls into the mix when I compare practice, doctrine, and ecclesiology, as well as history to other Christian denominations.

What does this mean?

I consider those primary considerations, not the liturgy.
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« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2013, 12:57:55 PM »

That was boring. I wish part of the chatechumenal period would include lessons on why converts shouldn't write about their experience. Just because Peter Gilquist did it doesn't mean you should. I mean, Anne Frank got her diary published after she died, but to the dismay of 12 year old girls everywhere, theirs never will be because society will never care about how much they <333333 Justin Beiber. Orthodox converts should learn from Anne Frank: You have to be in some interesting circumstances to make your life worth reading about if you're a nobody. Having been Protestant or Catholic is not interesting. Becoming Orthodox is not interesting. Step away from the blog.
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« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2013, 01:33:55 PM »

None of these reasons apply.  To me, anyway.  I have yet to be accused of being a hipster that likes pomp and cirscumstance, as well as pretending to be a Russian ex-Anglican.
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« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2013, 02:01:54 PM »

That was boring. I wish part of the chatechumenal period would include lessons on why converts shouldn't write about their experience. Just because Peter Gilquist did it doesn't mean you should. I mean, Anne Frank got her diary published after she died, but to the dismay of 12 year old girls everywhere, theirs never will be because society will never care about how much they <333333 Justin Beiber. Orthodox converts should learn from Anne Frank: You have to be in some interesting circumstances to make your life worth reading about if you're a nobody. Having been Protestant or Catholic is not interesting. Becoming Orthodox is not interesting. Step away from the blog.

Werd.
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« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2013, 02:33:27 PM »

That was boring. I wish part of the chatechumenal period would include lessons on why converts shouldn't write about their experience. Just because Peter Gilquist did it doesn't mean you should. I mean, Anne Frank got her diary published after she died, but to the dismay of 12 year old girls everywhere, theirs never will be because society will never care about how much they <333333 Justin Beiber. Orthodox converts should learn from Anne Frank: You have to be in some interesting circumstances to make your life worth reading about if you're a nobody. Having been Protestant or Catholic is not interesting. Becoming Orthodox is not interesting. Step away from the blog.

Amen.
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« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2013, 02:41:58 PM »

Christians must have a serious peanut allergy to be bothered by the Planter's snack pack scattered across the world that makes this so-called gallery. Having a very serious allergy I can certainly relate to the misery of what a few ppms of substance can do.

Perhaps an epipen should be mandatory.


for the full story (not as unrelated as one might think, given dzheremi's accurate description of this auto-gratification)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCDm_kI9p_g
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« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2013, 02:48:44 PM »

This is why I don't have a blog anymore. It was too self-indulgent, and really I didn't have a sufficient grasp of the things I was writing about. Now I just post here.
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« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2013, 04:19:01 PM »

I liked it, except I am not sure what the blogger meant by "hipsterdom."
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« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2013, 06:08:49 PM »

I liked it as well.
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« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2013, 06:40:47 PM »

Here are reasons I didn't become Orthodox for:
So I could hang blessed Icons around my house.
So I would have a better reason to skip meat more often.
So I could go to Easter service before sunrise.
So I would have a reason to burn incense.
Oh what's the point, there are so many.
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« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2013, 09:25:34 PM »

It is probably best to lie about the real reason you want to convert,
and try to come up with something that sounds legitimate to them.

The only problem is that there is no reason that will ever sound legitimate to them.

If you say you want to convert because you want to get married, well that's wrong.
If you say you want to convert because you have that ancestry, they will deny that's a valid reason,
denounce you as a Nationalist, and say the Orthodox Church is Universal, somehow.
Now we affirm that you cannot convert because you like the liturgy or because you don't like your old church.

It seems that Orthodoxy is a constant denial of everything.
Nobody is nothing, everything is not this, not that.

You can have a personal relationship with Jesus without leaving your home.
This person cannot give any legitimate explanation of why they wanted to convert.

I'm sorry this is true, I'm sure people won't like me saying it.
But how is it possible to find any grain of truth in a flood of constant denials?
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« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2013, 09:35:56 PM »

I don't think many would have a problem if you said: "I thought it was where I could best work out my salvation with fear and trembling."
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« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2013, 09:47:36 PM »

I never want to associate the Faith with the troll face superimposed on a snorlax ever again...
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« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2013, 10:01:52 PM »

That was boring. I wish part of the chatechumenal period would include lessons on why converts shouldn't write about their experience. Just because Peter Gilquist did it doesn't mean you should. I mean, Anne Frank got her diary published after she died, but to the dismay of 12 year old girls everywhere, theirs never will be because society will never care about how much they <333333 Justin Beiber. Orthodox converts should learn from Anne Frank: You have to be in some interesting circumstances to make your life worth reading about if you're a nobody. Having been Protestant or Catholic is not interesting. Becoming Orthodox is not interesting. Step away from the blog.
PotM!!
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« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2013, 10:05:16 PM »

This is why I don't have a blog anymore. It was too self-indulgent, and really I didn't have a sufficient grasp of the things I was writing about. Now I just post here.
I really do not have anything interesting to write about in a single paragraph, I can't imagine a daily blog of ruminating. I can summarize my daily routine quickly, and the weekends is where I break it a bit.

That being said I do think there are a few good Orthodox blogs out there that aren't really confessional or diary-esque.
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« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2013, 10:05:54 PM »

That was boring. I wish part of the chatechumenal period would include lessons on why converts shouldn't write about their experience. Just because Peter Gilquist did it doesn't mean you should. I mean, Anne Frank got her diary published after she died, but to the dismay of 12 year old girls everywhere, theirs never will be because society will never care about how much they <333333 Justin Beiber. Orthodox converts should learn from Anne Frank: You have to be in some interesting circumstances to make your life worth reading about if you're a nobody. Having been Protestant or Catholic is not interesting. Becoming Orthodox is not interesting. Step away from the blog.
PotM!!

Not to be too insistent on "following protocol," but isn't it proper to ask your spiritual father's permission before you publicly represent Orthodoxy? Blogs aren't the same thing as books, it's true, but when you claim to be a representative of the Church and begin weighing in on issues... I dunno.
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« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2013, 11:01:46 PM »

I don't think many would have a problem if you said: "I thought it was where I could best work out my salvation with fear and trembling."

I agree.

I was ready to convert after reading one book and before I ever attended the Divine Liturgy.
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« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2013, 11:44:53 PM »

That was boring. I wish part of the chatechumenal period would include lessons on why converts shouldn't write about their experience. Just because Peter Gilquist did it doesn't mean you should. I mean, Anne Frank got her diary published after she died, but to the dismay of 12 year old girls everywhere, theirs never will be because society will never care about how much they <333333 Justin Beiber. Orthodox converts should learn from Anne Frank: You have to be in some interesting circumstances to make your life worth reading about if you're a nobody. Having been Protestant or Catholic is not interesting. Becoming Orthodox is not interesting. Step away from the blog.
PotM!!

Not to be too insistent on "following protocol," but isn't it proper to ask your spiritual father's permission before you publicly represent Orthodoxy? Blogs aren't the same thing as books, it's true, but when you claim to be a representative of the Church and begin weighing in on issues... I dunno.
I have seen some *ahem* zealous bloggers out there who have posted on their site that everything is done under the approval of their starets.

I'm not sure where this idea I keep seeing on here that everyone has a geron-style spiritual director, but I've never heard anyone IRL actually use the phrase "spiritual father." Lots of folks have priests, pastors and even confessors, but not anyone who vets their every Internet posting for crypto-monophysitism or whatever.

If you're going to represent Orthodoxy, stick to what you're sure of, don't be overconfident and for pete's sake don't be a jerk. Be ready — if nothing else —  to say, "I might be wrong, but this is my understanding..."

And last of all have the humility to admit  your story of finding Christ is not as interesting as Christ Himself.
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« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2013, 01:40:52 AM »

The only problem is that there is no reason that will ever sound legitimate to them.

I'm sorry this is true, I'm sure people won't like me saying it.
But how is it possible to find any grain of truth in a flood of constant denials?

So a thread titled "Four reasons not to become Orthodox" is filled with too many negative statements for you, huh? Yeah, what's the deal with that...
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« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2013, 09:13:17 PM »

I don't think many would have a problem if you said: "I thought it was where I could best work out my salvation with fear and trembling."

Thanks for legitimating my emotional outburst with your rational response.
Sorry, that I mostly tend to post here when I get emotional about something.

But, how many people on here thought that was an obvious response?  Like I should have known that?
There is no possible way I ever would have been creative enough to guess that in a million years!

One time I announced I was totally confused and couldn't see a reason to come back
and a lady came up to me and said, "...but, You have to save your soul...!!!"

And I'm totally baffled, like RC's don't have a soul, they just follow rules; and I'm a robot anyways?
So the next time I went up to the front after liturgy I asked the Priest and the Bishop: "Can you help me save my soul?"

And they busted out laughing at me and said, "We'll do our best, but there's no guarantees..."
and I'm thinking, you guys are just up here in Halloween Costume, aren't you?
I don't even know what a soul is, and you both treat it like a business transaction.

Fear and trembling? 

Why does it have to be fear and trembling?  Why is it okay for the priests to constantly terrorize you?
Why can't it just be about education & learning and obtaining knowledge, understanding & wisdom?
Why all the suffering and emotional devastation?

When did God go from being a loving and caring--protective God, to a terrorizing mean angry God?
What if I find working out my salvation to be irrelevant, and I just want to get married, or be with my own kind, ancestrally?
Like did all the cradle Orthodox go through these endless questions before they were allowed to join the church?

Why do you have to bother working out your salvation, anyways? 
What does that even mean?  Sorry, but you lost me on that one.

Aren't you just supposed to follow the rules? 
Are there even any rules to follow in Orthodoxy?
It appears to be all chaos and randomness to me,
with no central rudder or factual basis holding anything together.
Like infinite negation in an endless hall of mirrors.

When I first entered the Church I knew zero about it,
and now I know like -50 about it. 

My reality is coming apart at the seams by attending there.
Where am I going wrong?  Any helpful advice would be appreciated, thanks.
(And for those who say don't listen to those on discussion boards, perhaps
I'm hoping for experienced based replies, instead of quotations out of books.)

What on earth is a soul?
Why do you have to "work out" your salvation?
What is salvation anyways?

I don't know any RC's "working out their salvation".
They just care about football, bingo, or whatever other secular activities are going on around them.
No deep thinkers there.

Why do I have to lie to everyone and pretend to be working out my salvation
to be able to join a church, when I don't even know what salvation is?

When I think about "Salvation", I think of a Cranberries Song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KotlCEGNbh8
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« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2013, 10:00:22 PM »

This is why I don't have a blog anymore. It was too self-indulgent, and really I didn't have a sufficient grasp of the things I was writing about. Now I just post here.

I admire your ability to spiritualize blog posting.  I don't have a blog anymore because I am too lazy to post to it.
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« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2013, 06:01:06 AM »

Sorry about the above post.  No need to respond to it. 
I keep looking for the "Edit / Remove" button, but cannot find it.

I currently stay as far away from Church / Religion as I possibly can, now.

I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!   
I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit! 
I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit! 
I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit! 
I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit! 
I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit! 
I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit! 
I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit! 
I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!
I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!
100 times, I Quit, already! 

Given what I've experienced, I'd never in a million years want to bring my children
anywhere near an Orthodox Church, so I will stay far away for their sake, alone.

Sorry again.  I just got bored last night, read all the news, and ended up on this page again.
I just couldn't help posting given the new outrage about how now you are not even allowed to like the liturgy
or dislike your old church; but have to act like you're at home, like what's the purpose of going anyways, then? 

I'm not able to (emotionally) handle any vile critical replies, so I will stop looking here, thanks.
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« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2013, 09:44:24 AM »


Robo, the "fear and trembling" is our choice....out of the huge respect and awe we have for God....not because He is a terrorizing and angry God, as you put it.

Often times, people lose that "fear and trembling"....and that's when you start seeing the callousness towards God, the joking around, the silliness, and the disrespect starts crawling in.

Therefore, if you notice you no longer fear God, or are no longer trembling when contemplating His awesome nature, than you need to stop and re-evaluate yourself and see what is lacking.

Society today teaches us that everything and everyone is our equal.  Nobody is greater than "me".  However, God will always be greater and we often forget that.
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« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2013, 10:09:31 AM »

That was boring. I wish part of the chatechumenal period would include lessons on why converts shouldn't write about their experience. Just because Peter Gilquist did it doesn't mean you should. I mean, Anne Frank got her diary published after she died, but to the dismay of 12 year old girls everywhere, theirs never will be because society will never care about how much they <333333 Justin Beiber. Orthodox converts should learn from Anne Frank: You have to be in some interesting circumstances to make your life worth reading about if you're a nobody. Having been Protestant or Catholic is not interesting. Becoming Orthodox is not interesting. Step away from the blog.
PotM!!

Not to be too insistent on "following protocol," but isn't it proper to ask your spiritual father's permission before you publicly represent Orthodoxy? Blogs aren't the same thing as books, it's true, but when you claim to be a representative of the Church and begin weighing in on issues... I dunno.

Indeed. One famous (or infamous) website of centralized Orthodox information has no blessing whatever.
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« Reply #30 on: November 25, 2013, 10:12:51 AM »

That was boring. I wish part of the chatechumenal period would include lessons on why converts shouldn't write about their experience. Just because Peter Gilquist did it doesn't mean you should. I mean, Anne Frank got her diary published after she died, but to the dismay of 12 year old girls everywhere, theirs never will be because society will never care about how much they <333333 Justin Beiber. Orthodox converts should learn from Anne Frank: You have to be in some interesting circumstances to make your life worth reading about if you're a nobody. Having been Protestant or Catholic is not interesting. Becoming Orthodox is not interesting. Step away from the blog.
PotM!!

Not to be too insistent on "following protocol," but isn't it proper to ask your spiritual father's permission before you publicly represent Orthodoxy? Blogs aren't the same thing as books, it's true, but when you claim to be a representative of the Church and begin weighing in on issues... I dunno.
I have seen some *ahem* zealous bloggers out there who have posted on their site that everything is done under the approval of their starets.

I'm not sure where this idea I keep seeing on here that everyone has a geron-style spiritual director, but I've never heard anyone IRL actually use the phrase "spiritual father." Lots of folks have priests, pastors and even confessors, but not anyone who vets their every Internet posting for crypto-monophysitism or whatever.

If you're going to represent Orthodoxy, stick to what you're sure of, don't be overconfident and for pete's sake don't be a jerk. Be ready — if nothing else —  to say, "I might be wrong, but this is my understanding..."

And last of all have the humility to admit  your story of finding Christ is not as interesting as Christ Himself.

Wait, but it's only the pope who isn't infallible.  Grin

I have heard people IRL speak of their spiritual fathers. Few of those so-called were actual spiritual fathers in the sense of being startsi--that is, experienced spiritual guides recognized as being specially enlightened by God, rather than simply priests and confessors and those who advise.
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« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2013, 10:22:16 AM »

I have heard people IRL speak of their spiritual fathers. Few of those so-called were actual spiritual fathers in the sense of being startsi--that is, experienced spiritual guides recognized as being specially enlightened by God, rather than simply priests and confessors and those who advise.

Regardless of personal enlightenment, around my parts, a confessor (somehow the sacrament is out, but they're still in) is always referred to as a "духовный отец," that is to say, a "spiritual father."
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« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2013, 10:43:41 AM »

I have heard people IRL speak of their spiritual fathers. Few of those so-called were actual spiritual fathers in the sense of being startsi--that is, experienced spiritual guides recognized as being specially enlightened by God, rather than simply priests and confessors and those who advise.

Regardless of personal enlightenment, around my parts, a confessor (somehow the sacrament is out, but they're still in) is always referred to as a "духовный отец," that is to say, a "spiritual father."

AFAIK, in the Russian tradition, all priests can hear confessions. But in the Greek tradition, this is reserved for the pnevmatiki--spiritual fathers. My definition of "spiritual father" seems to be more limited.
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« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2013, 10:48:12 AM »

I have heard people IRL speak of their spiritual fathers. Few of those so-called were actual spiritual fathers in the sense of being startsi--that is, experienced spiritual guides recognized as being specially enlightened by God, rather than simply priests and confessors and those who advise.

Regardless of personal enlightenment, around my parts, a confessor (somehow the sacrament is out, but they're still in) is always referred to as a "духовный отец," that is to say, a "spiritual father."
AFAIK, in the Russian tradition, all priests can hear confessions. But in the Greek tradition, this is reserved for the pnevmatiki--spiritual fathers. My definition of "spiritual father" seems to be more limited.

The priest that just got ordained in my ROCOR parish here, can not hear confessions. However, I feel that is something that he can do, just is instructed not to do right now.
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« Reply #34 on: November 25, 2013, 11:09:12 AM »

I certainly like the Divine Liturgy, but it only falls into the mix when I compare practice, doctrine, and ecclesiology, as well as history to other Christian denominations.

Before we had seminary, The Bible (or, at least, the New Testament), bible studies, books, testimonials, blogs, etc., we had Church.  Our God commanded us to pray at the beginning and end of the day, and then when He became incarnate He added the Eucharistic celebration.  Church became a major vehicle for education, edification, community building, etc.  So I'm not sure that someone saying, "I converted because of the Liturgy" is somehow less meaningful than, say, someone who decided to convert based on their reading; in fact, in some cases it may be more meaningful since it is an experiential immersion in a faith that depends on such interaction to its core (i.e. it cannot be merely an intellectual exercise - "the theologian is the one who prays").  The Church grew through regular worship, a focus on philanthropy, and compelling oratory; sometimes I think we need to re-group and re-focus our energies on these three aspects before we go off expanding programs or developing new ways of expounding old truths.
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« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2013, 04:47:42 AM »

That was boring. I wish part of the chatechumenal period would include lessons on why converts shouldn't write about their experience. Just because Peter Gilquist did it doesn't mean you should. I mean, Anne Frank got her diary published after she died, but to the dismay of 12 year old girls everywhere, theirs never will be because society will never care about how much they <333333 Justin Beiber. Orthodox converts should learn from Anne Frank: You have to be in some interesting circumstances to make your life worth reading about if you're a nobody. Having been Protestant or Catholic is not interesting. Becoming Orthodox is not interesting. Step away from the blog.

I know my own conversion story is a snore, worthy of Sleepy Dwarf himself.


At the same time,  I can understand why people indulge in the blogging thing.   It can propel you into a community,  even if virtual.

Father George touched on that point in his last post.

Posting on this forum is taking a similar step, even if on a smaller scale.

Why should anybody here give a damn about my opinion, or yours or anyone else's?

Community, I think...
« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 04:49:20 AM by Misplaced Book » Logged
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« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2013, 09:35:02 AM »


It is probably best to lie about the real reason you want to convert,
and try to come up with something that sounds legitimate to them.

The only problem is that there is no reason that will ever sound legitimate to them.

If you say you want to convert because you want to get married, well that's wrong.
If you say you want to convert because you have that ancestry, they will deny that's a valid reason,
denounce you as a Nationalist, and say the Orthodox Church is Universal, somehow.
Now we affirm that you cannot convert because you like the liturgy or because you don't like your old church.

It seems that Orthodoxy is a constant denial of everything.
Nobody is nothing, everything is not this, not that.

You can have a personal relationship with Jesus without leaving your home.
This person cannot give any legitimate explanation of why they wanted to convert.

I'm sorry this is true, I'm sure people won't like me saying it.
But how is it possible to find any grain of truth in a flood of constant denials?

+++

Sorry about the above post.  No need to respond to it. 
I keep looking for the "Edit / Remove" button, but cannot find it.

I currently stay as far away from Church / Religion as I possibly can, now.

I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!   
I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit! 
I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit! 
I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit! 
I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit! 
I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit! 
I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit! 
I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit! 
I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!
I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!
100 times, I Quit, already! 

Given what I've experienced, I'd never in a million years want to bring my children
anywhere near an Orthodox Church
, so I will stay far away for their sake, alone.

Sorry again.  I just got bored last night, read all the news, and ended up on this page again.
I just couldn't help posting given the new outrage about how now you are not even allowed to like the liturgy
or dislike your old church; but have to act like you're at home, like what's the purpose of going anyways, then? 

I'm not able to (emotionally) handle any vile critical replies, so I will stop looking here, thanks.

Robotron, hugs, same here. Kept going around in circles while attending an Orthodox church, I am the only party that took the inquiry seriously, then started going backwards until I didnt even think I was ever a believer at all. They really mess with your head, Lord have mercy.
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« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2013, 09:47:35 AM »

I currently stay as far away from Church / Religion as I possibly can, now.

I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!   
I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit! 
I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit! 
I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit! 
I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit! 
I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit! 
I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit! 
I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit! 
I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!
I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!  I Quit!
100 times, I Quit, already! 


The Global Church/ Religion Consortium has considered your resignation request and rejected it. You are now ordered to report to Church Unit 7A613498B for reprogramming.
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« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2013, 10:47:56 AM »

...

I can sympathize/empathize with you. I won't go into details, but I am sincere when I say that.

One way of looking at salvation is as a form of healing. Generally we have different things that we need healed of. Some people don't think they need to be healed of anything in particular. If it helps you could think of your current struggles, confusion to understand/find answers etc. as the sickness. Even if you don't believe it entirely, let's say you go along with it and are willing to give a proposed cure a shot just to see how it goes. Now, I guess the question is, are you willing to take the medicine. For example, you said:

I'm not really interested in being pious at all.  I'm just looking for the bare minimum.  

If you want to be healed, piety is a key element. Not a false piety where you trumpet how great your are or your church is or whatever. Real piety, involving the virtues like faith and love and humility. Doing the bare minimum to treat a sickness, at least of this kind, will usually leave you continuing to be sick.

This way of putting things is clumsy, but people seem to like that language. Maybe I do as well, I dunno. Anyway, my point is, I can give more thoughts on this, but I don't think I can give you an answer that will just make everything "click". I can point in a direction, tell you how you might be able to get there, maybe, but I can't guarantee anything. If you want me to go on I certainly will.
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« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2013, 11:50:04 AM »

Quote from: Asteriktos link=topic=54944.msg1034008#msg1034008
...One way of looking at salvation is as a form of healing. Generally we have different things that we need healed of. Some people don't think they need to be healed of anything in particular. If it helps you could think of your current struggles, confusion to understand/find answers etc. as the sickness. Even if you don't believe it entirely, let's say you go along with it and are willing to give a proposed cure a shot just to see how it goes. Now, I guess the question is, are you willing to take the medicine...

I can give you an answer that will just make everything "click". I can point in a direction, tell you how you might be able to get there, maybe, but I can't guarantee anything. If you want me to go on I certainly will.

Sounds eerily like the blue pill/red pill scene from the Matrix movie. I stepped away from both Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy to evaluate each. I took the red pill and ended up back in Roman Catholicism. It aint pretty like the 'reality' Neo went back to. But its real. No hipsters.

I fixed the quote tag. - Fr. George
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« Reply #40 on: November 26, 2013, 11:53:44 AM »

I ... ended up back in Roman Catholicism. ...its real.

That's great Smiley
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« Reply #41 on: November 26, 2013, 11:56:39 AM »

Sounds eerily like the blue pill/red pill scene from the Matrix movie. I stepped away from both Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy to evaluate each. I took the red pill and ended up back in Roman Catholicism. It aint pretty like the 'reality' Neo went back to. But its real. No hipsters.

LOL. No hipsters in Catholicism, you say?

Also:

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« Reply #42 on: November 27, 2013, 01:58:28 AM »

Quote from: Asteriktos link=topic=54944.msg1034008#msg1034008
...One way of looking at salvation is as a form of healing. Generally we have different things that we need healed of. Some people don't think they need to be healed of anything in particular. If it helps you could think of your current struggles, confusion to understand/find answers etc. as the sickness. Even if you don't believe it entirely, let's say you go along with it and are willing to give a proposed cure a shot just to see how it goes. Now, I guess the question is, are you willing to take the medicine...

I can give you an answer that will just make everything "click". I can point in a direction, tell you how you might be able to get there, maybe, but I can't guarantee anything. If you want me to go on I certainly will.

Sounds eerily like the blue pill/red pill scene from the Matrix movie. I stepped away from both Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy to evaluate each. I took the red pill and ended up back in Roman Catholicism. It aint pretty like the 'reality' Neo went back to. But its real. No hipsters.

I fixed the quote tag. - Fr. George

Am I to understand that you rejected Orthodoxy because of some bearded trend chasers?

Looking at your previous posts it seems you had a bad experience, but this statement caused me to raise an eyebrow.  I in all sincerity have no idea what you mean.
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« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2013, 03:15:23 PM »

Am I to understand that you rejected Orthodoxy because of some bearded trend chasers?

Looking at your previous posts it seems you had a bad experience, but this statement caused me to raise an eyebrow.  I in all sincerity have no idea what you mean.
[/quote]

I am here to explain it is not easy becoming Orthodox, I didnt reject it so much as it was not very welcoming. There were a few hipsters, but not THE reason. I've been a Christian all my life, wandering in and out of several denoms and non-denoms. I've seen, heard, read about almost every variation. Orthodoxy has some nice looking bait they dangle before you, but you can only suffer the teasing for so long before you are a dead fish. I am resuscitating nicely at my Catholic parish. I want to be honest in that I am not that smart, I do not know how many more years of studying it would have taken me to be acceptable to become Orthodox. The catechism is vague, seemingly unending, going nowhere very slowly. 90% was review. I also had trouble dealing with foreign nomenclature.
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« Reply #44 on: November 27, 2013, 03:20:53 PM »

The Global Church/ Religion Consortium has considered your resignation request and rejected it. You are now ordered to report to Church Unit 7A613498B for reprogramming.

Yes, I know, I know.  They won't let me quit anymore.  They won't even let me join, either.  I will probably have to report back there next Saturday or the one after that for reprogramming.  It feels like kamikaze training for the self-esteem.  Every time I work up the courage to attend, it gets obliterated somehow.  I walk out emotionally shattered.  Then I try to pull myself together and regroup, and work up the courage to go back again, only to be shattered again.  I wish I could just unplug my emotion chip, but that might be even worse...

Thanks for you sense of humor though.  It is appreciated.
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