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Author Topic: orthodox christian with questions  (Read 1146 times) Average Rating: 0
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PeterTheAleut
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EXTERMINATE!


« Reply #45 on: November 15, 2013, 08:16:32 PM »

I could post numerous quotes by the fathers that talk about faith alone,
Then please do.

just as I could post many quotes from Luther and other western reformers on the importance of works.
Then please do.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 08:16:48 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
xOrthodox4Christx
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« Reply #46 on: November 15, 2013, 09:52:42 PM »


This is because of your incorrect dogmatism.

May God have mercy on me for my Free Will has failed me on understanding the Gospel.

Luke 18:13 -  But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’

“But what is the “law of faith?” It is, being saved by grace. Here he shows God’s power, in that He has not only saved, but has even justified, and led them to boasting, and this too without needing works, but looking for faith only. For Scripture says that faith has saved us. Put better: Since God willed it, faith has saved us. Now in what case, tell me, does faith save without itself doing anything at all? Faith’s workings themselves are a gift of God, lest anyone should boast. What then is Paul saying? Not that God has forbidden works but that he has forbidden us to be justified by works. No one, Paul says, is justified by works, precisely in order that the grace and benevolence of God may become apparent.”

St. John Chrysostom

"Again, they said that he who adhered to Faith alone was cursed, but he shows that he who adhered to Faith alone is blessed."

St. John Chrysostom

"We also, being called through God's will in Christ Jesus, are not justified through ourselves, neither through our own wisdom or understanding, or piety, or works which we have done in holiness or heart, but through faith"

Clement of Rome

"When an ungodly man is converted, God justified him through faith alone, not on account of good works which he possessed not."

Jerome

“God has decreed that a person who believes in Christ can be saved without works. By faith alone he receives the forgiveness of sins”.

Ambrosiaster 

“Redemption by the blood of Christ would become of little value, neither would the preeminence of man's works be superseded by the mercy of God, if justification, which is wrought through grace, were due to the merits going before, so as to be, not the free gift of a donor, but the reward due to the laborer.”

Ambrose

"This is the true and perfect glorying in God, when a man is not lifted up on account of his own righteousness, but has known himself to be wanting in true righteousness and to be justified by faith alone in Christ."

Basil

"Shall not all our righteousness turn out to be mere unrighteousness and deficiency? What, then, shall it be concerning our sins, when not even our righteousness can answer for itself? Wherefore...let us flee, with all humility to Mercy which alone can save our souls...whoever hungers and thirsts after righteousness, let him believe in thee, who "justified the ungodly"; and thus, being justified by faith alone, he shall have peace with God."

Bernard of Clairvaux:

It is ordained of God that he who believes in Christ is saved, freely receiving remission of sins, without works, by faith alone.

Ambrose

We say, besides, that if good works do not follow, faith is false and not true.

Martin Luther

Quote
Christ said: "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 5:16) It's a command from Christ. If you don't follow Christ's words, whose words do you follow?

Amen!!

Mark 16:16 - Whoever believes and is baptized shall be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Quote
You can find whatever you want to selectively quote from in a book, that's not what matters.

Yeah but the verses I posted are in direct context of what we are discussing.

Just attributing these quotes to the Fathers doesn't make them real quotes. Show where they said that. If Catholic Answers can fabricate quotes from the Fathers to support their theological view, then so can you.

Also, whether Abraham was justified by faith alone or whether man CAN be saved by faith alone is not in dispute. It's possible, but it's not the ordinary scenario.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 09:54:23 PM by xOrthodox4Christx » Logged

"[The Lord] shall judge between many peoples, and shall decide for strong nations far away; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4, Micah 4:3)
efthimios
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« Reply #47 on: November 15, 2013, 10:06:05 PM »

I dont feel special for being orthodox. I think there are plenty of non orthodox that are closer to Christ, that dont walk into chirch do the sign of the cross, kiss icons and think they are ahead of tjThee game.

It just saddens me. So inspite of some of the truths I see in the born agains points, I chose to learn from it. I read the bible more and it has changed my life, so I use it more in conjunction with going to church.

I feel though I still love the church. I cant picture being in a born again type church.

Its just tough hearing critisism of orthodoxy when growing up we were raised to think orthodoxy is the one and only truth.

To someone elses point..it doesnt make anyone else special or more correct belonging to any other faith. Its whats in our hearts and our rwlationship with God. Its living as much as possible a Christ like life.

What a great thread. Ironically once I was talking to a born again a while ago..they questioned all that goes on I. Orthodox churches.. I asked if they recieve communion.. no..or if they fast..no..

A year later they told me they started using incense , fasting, and rwceiving communion.
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Nicene
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« Reply #48 on: November 16, 2013, 11:30:03 AM »

There are those that can be reasoned with and those who will not be resoned with, the link you gave is an example of the latter wherein someone has approached orthodoxy without any semblance of charity, no attempt to understand our actual position on things. If the author of this article had done some research, basic research, maybe asked an Orthodox clarification on things he could have put together a much more thought provoking article.

If anyone is going to argue on this level I suggest you totally ignore them. There is one thing to point to, the apparent dichotomy the author sees in orthodoxy's emphasis on Tradition and practice, church life, icons and the like, between that and the bible. How might this man get things done in a precisely biblical way I might ask? Where is the biblical outline for a worship service? Should we gather on sunday? Thats not strictly speaking a biblical injunction. What is this bible that is to be my sole and only authority? Are hymn books permissable when they aren't biblical? Should Christians have specific buildings by which they gather in for the sole purpose of worship? The apostles worshipped in the temple and synagouges primarily. There is the underlying assumption "we have understood the bible where these Orthodox have not."
« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 11:33:59 AM by Nicene » Logged

Thank you.
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