Author Topic: Drunkenness  (Read 7053 times)

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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #45 on: November 11, 2013, 02:22:25 PM »
Wow. You're probably first Ukrainian with such attitude that I've "met" ;)

There are a few of us who don't really drink.  ;)
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Offline Gorazd

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #46 on: November 11, 2013, 02:30:53 PM »
Wow. You're probably first Ukrainian with such attitude that I've "met" ;)

There are a few of us who don't really drink.  ;)

I have met some more, but they were all female.

Offline Maria

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #47 on: November 11, 2013, 03:25:14 PM »
I was best man for a wedding rehearsal where the RC priest was drunk.

This is what happens when we start losing our ability to discern right from wrong.  I never would have let that priest perform the marriage.

Couldn't that invalidate the marriage legally by having a drunk perform the service?
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
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Offline Maria

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #48 on: November 11, 2013, 03:27:47 PM »
Pot? Is it not enough of a challenge to spiritually follow what is good and right and just and true (if we love our lord we will keep his commandments) let alone to attempt truth under a haze of poison smoke?....


Not really. It makes you lazy and not eager to do anything, including sinning.

^ That, in itself is a sin.

You should never let anything alter your mind.  Not drinking, drugs, video game obsessions, etc.  NOTHING should cloud your judgment.  ALL addictions are bad.


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The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline Maria

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #49 on: November 11, 2013, 03:31:04 PM »
Somehow being drunk on Christmas day seemed so wrong that it gave me a very strong message.

Now if only you could pass that message along to the unmarried and the youths around these parts.

They're drunk straight out of the church on Pascha morning and don't slow down until Thomas comes around.

Ah! Perhaps that is the reason why so many Orthodox Christians do not attend the Divine Liturgy on Thomas Sunday. The church is almost empty that day!
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #50 on: November 11, 2013, 03:31:30 PM »
Alcohol facilitates communication like nothing else. That alone should commend it.
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Offline Maria

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #51 on: November 11, 2013, 03:38:55 PM »
Alcohol facilitates communication like nothing else. That alone should commend it.

Actually, alcohol impairs communication just like it impairs driving.

People are so impaired that they think they are speaking and driving flawlessly, when they are not.

My brother, who used to be an itinerant preacher, liked to get drunk just before delivering a homily or a eulogy. Lord have mercy. His tongue was loosened, but then he would ramble, and then congratulated himself for a free-flowing speech. Ugh.

The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline augustin717

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #52 on: November 11, 2013, 03:41:26 PM »
Sounds like me I'm most eloquent when tipsy. But I've made plenty of friends over drinks. So ...
She hears, upon that water without sound,
A voice that cries, “The tomb in Palestine
Is not the porch of spirits lingering.
It is the grave of Jesus, where he lay.”
We live in an old chaos of the sun,
Or old dependency of day and night,
Or island solitude, unsponsored, free,
Of that wide water, inescapable.

Offline jah777

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #53 on: November 11, 2013, 03:43:33 PM »
I have never heard a sermon solely on the subject.  I would think such a thing would be prompted only if a major problem with alcohol was observed in that particular community. 

Drunkenness is a sin, though, so we should expect to be chastised if we engage in drunkenness. 
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 04:10:59 PM by jah777 »

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #54 on: November 11, 2013, 04:12:00 PM »
Do Finns have a more refinded Western European style beer palate? They tend to culturally avoid some of the dump-truck alcohol of Eastern Europe, but I'm not sure about this.

Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #55 on: November 11, 2013, 04:17:54 PM »
Pot? Is it not enough of a challenge to spiritually follow what is good and right and just and true (if we love our lord we will keep his commandments) let alone to attempt truth under a haze of poison smoke?....


Not really. It makes you lazy and not eager to do anything, including sinning.

^ That, in itself is a sin.

You should never let anything alter your mind.  Not drinking, drugs, video game obsessions, etc.  NOTHING should cloud your judgment.  ALL addictions are bad.


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I second that.  

You can always see just how bad the drug and drinking problem is when you see threads like this, and how many defend it.  

Galatians 5:19-21

19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

That's pretty cut and dried.  It should be enough to know God doesn't want us doing this crap.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 04:18:24 PM by newtoorthodoxy »
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Offline Alpo

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #56 on: November 11, 2013, 04:48:07 PM »
Do Finns have a more refinded Western European style beer palate? They tend to culturally avoid some of the dump-truck alcohol of Eastern Europe, but I'm not sure about this.

Not sure if I understood what you're asking but AFAIK most of the alcohol consumed here is Finnish and far from refined.
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

Offline Fr. George

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #57 on: November 11, 2013, 06:19:15 PM »
You can always see just how bad the drug and drinking problem is when you see threads like this, and how many defend it.   

The majority of people on this forum IME are against drug use and drunkenness, but a vocal minority like to bring it up (in the same way that a few vocal people want to defend homosexual marriage or at-will abortion or other activities that are discouraged or forbidden by the Church).  The number of threads is indeed an indication of how prevalent it is in society, sure, but I think the group here generally (not always) have their heads screwed on straight.

As to the OP's questions: yes, I've heard sermons against drunkenness/drug use (and I've given them, too), yes, I've been asked about alcohol consumption in confession (nearly every time), and yes, I've confessed it when I've needed to.
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Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #58 on: November 11, 2013, 07:18:11 PM »
You can always see just how bad the drug and drinking problem is when you see threads like this, and how many defend it.   

The majority of people on this forum IME are against drug use and drunkenness, but a vocal minority like to bring it up (in the same way that a few vocal people want to defend homosexual marriage or at-will abortion or other activities that are discouraged or forbidden by the Church).  The number of threads is indeed an indication of how prevalent it is in society, sure, but I think the group here generally (not always) have their heads screwed on straight.

As to the OP's questions: yes, I've heard sermons against drunkenness/drug use (and I've given them, too), yes, I've been asked about alcohol consumption in confession (nearly every time), and yes, I've confessed it when I've needed to.

I agree.


Matthew 5:17-19

17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


I added the italics. 

This scripture, as well as Galatians 5:19-21, should actually be very troubling to those people.  We're not supposed to be excusing our own sins, nor encouraging others to do the same.
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Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #59 on: November 11, 2013, 07:27:02 PM »
I was best man for a wedding rehearsal where the RC priest was drunk.

This is what happens when we start losing our ability to discern right from wrong.  I never would have let that priest perform the marriage.

Maybe then God would not forgive your sins.

You see God gave wine to those who already had too much at the wedding of Cana (Jn 2:10), he stood in front of the crowd who were in the right according to the law to stone the whore(Jn 8:7), he sat for dinner with the outcasts (Lk19:5), Jesus said God desires mercy above all else (Mt 9:13,5:7).

Similar is the example of waiting for the wheat to grow fully before pulling out the weeds(Mt 13:30), or forgiving the thief on the cross next to him(Lk 23:43.

The priest was fine for the wedding, the groom may have warned him, I never asked about it.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #60 on: November 11, 2013, 07:29:51 PM »
This scripture, as well as Galatians 5:19-21, should actually be very troubling to those people.  We're not supposed to be excusing our own sins, nor encouraging others to do the same.

I love when people invoke Scriptural passages such as this one because, typically, they are focusing on two or three sins out of a list of fifteen, and those sins usually happen to be the sins they themselves don't have to deal with.  You're right in saying that this passage should trouble people.  Actually, this passage should trouble those who wield it as a weapon against others just as much as it troubles their intended targets.    
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Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #61 on: November 11, 2013, 08:04:16 PM »
This scripture, as well as Galatians 5:19-21, should actually be very troubling to those people.  We're not supposed to be excusing our own sins, nor encouraging others to do the same.

I love when people invoke Scriptural passages such as this one because, typically, they are focusing on two or three sins out of a list of fifteen, and those sins usually happen to be the sins they themselves don't have to deal with.  You're right in saying that this passage should trouble people.  Actually, this passage should trouble those who wield it as a weapon against others just as much as it troubles their intended targets.    

Okay, you win.  I'll start using drugs and getting drunk every day and pick myself up some good porn.  Why are people who encourage this stuff and justify this stuff not 'rebuked' at all, while those who are troubled by it are constantly corrected?  We're neither supposed to discern sin, nor judge it?  We're not supposed to judge sin.  We were NEVER supposed to stop judging sin.  I can't imagine why you'd be gunning for me.  No problem, I just need to acclimate myself to the world and do what everyone else is doing.  

There's a bunch of scripture 'invoked' in the post above yours, but it was only a problem when I did it?  I can 'invoke' scripture to excuse sin, but not to prove that some behavior is so obviously not what God wants?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 08:06:44 PM by newtoorthodoxy »
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Offline Robert scho

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #62 on: November 11, 2013, 08:12:58 PM »
Pray those souls to be released from vice and find the pure breath of life in Christ with clarity and love.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #63 on: November 11, 2013, 08:16:19 PM »
This scripture, as well as Galatians 5:19-21, should actually be very troubling to those people.  We're not supposed to be excusing our own sins, nor encouraging others to do the same.

I love when people invoke Scriptural passages such as this one because, typically, they are focusing on two or three sins out of a list of fifteen, and those sins usually happen to be the sins they themselves don't have to deal with.  You're right in saying that this passage should trouble people.  Actually, this passage should trouble those who wield it as a weapon against others just as much as it troubles their intended targets.    

Okay, you win.  I'll start using drugs and getting drunk every day and pick myself up some good porn.  Why are people who encourage this stuff and justify this stuff not 'rebuked' at all, while those who are troubled by it are constantly corrected?  We're neither supposed to discern sin, nor judge it?  We're not supposed to judge sin.  We were NEVER supposed to stop judging sin.  I can't imagine why you'd be gunning for me.  No problem, I just need to acclimate myself to the world and do what everyone else is doing.  

There's a bunch of scripture 'invoked' in the post above yours, but it was only a problem when I did it?  I can 'invoke' scripture to excuse sin, but not to prove that some behavior is so obviously not what God wants?


No matter what we say, boys who suffer from the Peter Pan Syndrome and who have never grown up, will not listen to us of the feminine persuasion as porn, drugs, and alcohol appeal to the pot head generation.

If we gals try to preach, then scriptures, especially the Pauline ones, are always quoted telling us to be quiet. If we persist, then it is like banging our heads against the wall.

However, even though we are powerless, God is all-powerful.

Through our good example and faith, we can pray that the next time Mike tries an alcoholic drink, that it will taste like vomit.

The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #64 on: November 11, 2013, 08:23:49 PM »


A GO priest once told me why we focus on the New Testament, because the Old Testament simply shows that we are all guilty of sin requiring the New Testament for salvation. The worst thing any Christian can do is to act above anothers sin, that is where we lose our ability to be forgiven our own sins.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 08:24:24 PM by Sinful Hypocrite »
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #65 on: November 11, 2013, 08:47:27 PM »


A GO priest once told me why we focus on the New Testament, because the Old Testament simply shows that we are all guilty of sin requiring the New Testament for salvation. The worst thing any Christian can do is to act above anothers sin, that is where we lose our ability to be forgiven our own sins.

That is why our prayer at Communion says,
Quote
I believe, O Lord, and I confess that Thou art truly the Christ, the Son of the Living God, who didst come into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. And I believe that this is truly Thine own immaculate Body, and that this is Thine own precious Blood. Wherefore I pray thee, have mercy upon me and forgive my transgressions both voluntary and involuntary, of word and of deed, of knowledge and of ignorance; and make me worthy to partake without condemnation of Thine immaculate Mysteries, unto remission of my sins and unto life everlasting. Amen.

A Pocket Prayer Book for Orthodox Christians [the red book], Antiochian Christian Archdiocese, Englewood, NJ, 2000, p. 98.
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #66 on: November 11, 2013, 08:52:02 PM »
Through our good example and faith, we can pray that the next time Mike tries an alcoholic drink, that it will taste like vomit.

You mean Eucharist?
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #67 on: November 11, 2013, 09:01:15 PM »
Okay, you win.  I'll start using drugs and getting drunk every day and pick myself up some good porn.

If that's what you took away from my post, I think you need to read it again some other time.     

Quote
Why are people who encourage this stuff and justify this stuff not 'rebuked' at all, while those who are troubled by it are constantly corrected?  We're neither supposed to discern sin, nor judge it?  We're not supposed to judge sin.  We were NEVER supposed to stop judging sin.  I can't imagine why you'd be gunning for me.  No problem, I just need to acclimate myself to the world and do what everyone else is doing.  

I wasn't "gunning" for you, and I'm sorry I gave you that impression.  I made a general comment based on your post.  If someone else made that point, I would've made the same comment with reference to their post.

I don't like the selective reading of Scripture.  If it was OK to do that, I'd be the first one doing it because that'd make my life a lot easier.  I wish I could ignore more of it sincerely and be happy.  Unfortunately, I have to take into account all of Scripture if I'm going to have any hope of understanding it on its own terms (God's terms) and applying it.  

So, for example, I find it difficult:

a) to decry drugs, alcohol, and porn under the category of "immorality, impurity, sensuality, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these" in the way some posters in this thread and others in other threads throughout this forum do

b) and at the same time escape falling into "enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions".  

According to St Paul, all of those things cut us off from the kingdom of God.  

What's the use of crying out against the sins of substance abuse and pornography if you're going to fall into sins that just as equally get you disinherited from God's kingdom?  Is it worth it?  

The truth is that it's very difficult for most of us to condemn certain sins while loving the sinner and praying and hoping for their conversion.  We identify the sinner with his sin, judge them negatively as a lesser being, and consider ourselves better than him.  For example, someone might say the following:

Quote
Porn, getting drunk, and getting high are not what mediocre Christians do--that stuff is really bad.  I'd happily settle for mediocre.  I've done enough bad and enough wrong in my life to spend all of eternity in hell, and I still never did any of this stuff.  

Porn and substance abuse are sinful, no doubt.  But a person who makes such a comment as above has gone beyond that to condemn a class of people and pat himself on the back for not being as bad as they.  At this point, have they not also fallen into enmities, strife, anger, disputes, dissensions, and factions?  And if the person says they've done enough to deserve hell and yet were not so bad as to engage in porn and substance abuse, what hell-worthy sins did they commit?  Maybe they're more acceptable in polite society than porn and pot, but if they still get you impaled on a spit roasting in the fires of hell, so what?  

Regarding the post above mine which you referred to, I've argued in the past with SH over what I feel is his questionable method of Scriptural interpretation, but in this situation I felt his post provided a needed counterbalance.  
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #68 on: November 11, 2013, 09:09:25 PM »
I love when people invoke Scriptural passages such as this one because, typically, they are focusing on two or three sins out of a list of fifteen, and those sins usually happen to be the sins they themselves don't have to deal with.  You're right in saying that this passage should trouble people.  Actually, this passage should trouble those who wield it as a weapon against others just as much as it troubles their intended targets.    

Okay, you win.  I'll start using drugs and getting drunk every day and pick myself up some good porn.  Why are people who encourage this stuff and justify this stuff not 'rebuked' at all, while those who are troubled by it are constantly corrected?  We're neither supposed to discern sin, nor judge it?  We're not supposed to judge sin.  We were NEVER supposed to stop judging sin.  I can't imagine why you'd be gunning for me.  No problem, I just need to acclimate myself to the world and do what everyone else is doing.  

There's a bunch of scripture 'invoked' in the post above yours, but it was only a problem when I did it?  I can 'invoke' scripture to excuse sin, but not to prove that some behavior is so obviously not what God wants?


No matter what we say, boys who suffer from the Peter Pan Syndrome and who have never grown up, will not listen to us of the feminine persuasion as porn, drugs, and alcohol appeal to the pot head generation.

If we gals try to preach, then scriptures, especially the Pauline ones, are always quoted telling us to be quiet. If we persist, then it is like banging our heads against the wall.

Since my post was the only one included in the string of quotes you responded to that was also written by a "boy", am I correct in presuming that I suffer from Peter Pan Syndrome, have never grown up, and am a member of the pot head generation?  Have I quoted Pauline Scriptures to tell women to keep quiet? 

I just want to make sure I understand what you're saying. 

Quote
However, even though we are powerless, God is all-powerful.

Through our good example and faith, we can pray that the next time Mike tries an alcoholic drink, that it will taste like vomit.

Good girls don't pray and tell. 
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

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The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #69 on: November 11, 2013, 09:10:15 PM »
Through our good example and faith, we can pray that the next time Mike tries an alcoholic drink, that it will taste like vomit.

You mean Eucharist?

Really? 
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

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The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #70 on: November 11, 2013, 09:22:11 PM »
Okay, you win.  I'll start using drugs and getting drunk every day and pick myself up some good porn.

If that's what you took away from my post, I think you need to read it again some other time.    


I meant that in sincerity.  I am not under a separate set of rules from everyone else, and it's apparent that I'm just one of a very few people who think there's even a problem with this stuff, so obviously, I'm the one who's wrong.  And if God had a problem with us getting high, then there wouldn't be marijuana plants growing in every crack and crevice of this planet.  Why am I missing out?  For what possible reason?  I was serious.  This stuff is okay, so there's no reason for me to miss out or to argue against those who use it.

Quote

I wasn't "gunning" for you, and I'm sorry I gave you that impression.  

 

I think the fact that we seemed to be having the same conversation on three threads is what gave me that impression.

Quote

I don't like the selective reading of Scripture.  


It is impossible not to be selective of scripture, because you have to discern which verses pertain to the topic at hand.  Otherwise, most if not all of the discussions in this forum would make no sense.


As to the rest of it, I concede the point.  There's nothing wrong with any of that stuff, and as humans, we're allowed to do whatever we want to, God loves sinners, and the price has already been paid.  This is what free will is for.  If I would just get with the program, I wouldn't get into any of the arguments I get into, and probably wouldn't have most of the problems I have.  I completely and wholly concede the point.  There's nothing wrong with porn, pot, or getting wasted on beer.  It's not wrong.  If anything, it's funny.  
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 09:23:44 PM by newtoorthodoxy »
Some of my questions might appear patently stupid to those well-versed in Orthodoxy, but I'm brand new, having no background in the faith.  Please grant me a great deal of patience and consideration as I learn the basics.

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #71 on: November 11, 2013, 09:32:36 PM »

Okay, you win.  I'll start using drugs and getting drunk every day and pick myself up some good porn.  Why are people who encourage this stuff and justify this stuff not 'rebuked' at all, while those who are troubled by it are constantly corrected?  We're neither supposed to discern sin, nor judge it?  We're not supposed to judge sin.  We were NEVER supposed to stop judging sin.  I can't imagine why you'd be gunning for me.  No problem, I just need to acclimate myself to the world and do what everyone else is doing.  

There's a bunch of scripture 'invoked' in the post above yours, but it was only a problem when I did it?  I can 'invoke' scripture to excuse sin, but not to prove that some behavior is so obviously not what God wants?


No matter what we say, boys who suffer from the Peter Pan Syndrome and who have never grown up, will not listen to us of the feminine persuasion as porn, drugs, and alcohol appeal to the pot head generation.

If we gals try to preach, then scriptures, especially the Pauline ones, are always quoted telling us to be quiet. If we persist, then it is like banging our heads against the wall.

Since my post was the only one included in the string of quotes you responded to that was also written by a "boy", am I correct in presuming that I suffer from Peter Pan Syndrome, have never grown up, and am a member of the pot head generation?  Have I quoted Pauline Scriptures to tell women to keep quiet?  

I just want to make sure I understand what you're saying.

I was addressing my post to all the immature boys in this thread who are advocating, tolerating and excusing their use of porn or abuse of marijuana, alcohol or drugs. Not to you, Mor.

Listen, aren't we living in the Kingdom?  If so, shouldn't we be shining examples of virtue?

Some of the people in this thread appear to have no idea that they are driving inquirers and seekers away from the Holy Orthodox Church.


« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 09:34:12 PM by Maria »
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #72 on: November 11, 2013, 09:36:13 PM »
Okay, you win.  I'll start using drugs and getting drunk every day and pick myself up some good porn.

If that's what you took away from my post, I think you need to read it again some other time.    


I meant that in sincerity.  I am not under a separate set of rules from everyone else, and it's apparent that I'm just one of a very few people who think there's even a problem with this stuff, so obviously, I'm the one who's wrong.  And if God had a problem with us getting high, then there wouldn't be marijuana plants growing in every crack and crevice of this planet.  Why am I missing out?  For what possible reason?  I was serious.  This stuff is okay, so there's no reason for me to miss out or to argue against those who use it.

Quote

I wasn't "gunning" for you, and I'm sorry I gave you that impression.  

 

I think the fact that we seemed to be having the same conversation on three threads is what gave me that impression.

Quote

I don't like the selective reading of Scripture.  


It is impossible not to be selective of scripture, because you have to discern which verses pertain to the topic at hand.  Otherwise, most if not all of the discussions in this forum would make no sense.


As to the rest of it, I concede the point.  There's nothing wrong with any of that stuff, and as humans, we're allowed to do whatever we want to, God loves sinners, and the price has already been paid.  This is what free will is for.  If I would just get with the program, I wouldn't get into any of the arguments I get into, and probably wouldn't have most of the problems I have.  I completely and wholly concede the point.  There's nothing wrong with porn, pot, or getting wasted on beer.  It's not wrong.  If anything, it's funny.  

I think a few smilies like this  ::)  or this  :'( would be helpful.
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline ZealousZeal

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #73 on: November 11, 2013, 09:52:13 PM »
I was best man for a wedding rehearsal where the RC priest was drunk.

This is what happens when we start losing our ability to discern right from wrong.  I never would have let that priest perform the marriage.

Couldn't that invalidate the marriage legally by having a drunk perform the service?

I'd be curious to know what the Orthodox answer to this would be. As a former RC I'm sure you know that they believe the couple being married are ministers of the sacrament so he was probably fine on that score in his mind.  ;)
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #74 on: November 11, 2013, 10:00:28 PM »
I'd be curious to know what the Orthodox answer to this would be. As a former RC I'm sure you know that they believe the couple being married are ministers of the sacrament so he was probably fine on that score in his mind.  ;)

In both cases, Orthodox and Roman Catholic, despite differing theologies on who ministers the sacrament to the couple, I'm pretty sure this would be grounds for some sort of annulment/dissolution of the marriage due to a canonical defect.  But if the couple never had problems driving them to seek out that sort of thing, I doubt they or the Church would've second guessed it.  So, in the eyes of God, valid marriage or not? 

"He who sits in the heavens laughs..." (Ps 2.4), while fixing it in his own way. 
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

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The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #75 on: November 12, 2013, 02:59:51 AM »
Through our good example and faith, we can pray that the next time Mike tries an alcoholic drink, that it will taste like vomit.

You mean Eucharist?

Really?  

I noticed that Eucharist technically might be the most recent alcoholic drink I would have to point out stupidity of Maria's post.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 03:06:54 AM by Michał Kalina »
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #76 on: November 12, 2013, 03:06:35 AM »
Through our good example and faith, we can pray that the next time Mike tries an alcoholic drink, that it will taste like vomit.

You mean Eucharist?

Really?  

I pointed out that Eucharist technically might be the most recent alcoholic drink I would have to point out stupidity of Maria's post.

Either my previous post is stupid or yours is skirting blasphemy.

However, in the context of my previous statement, such alcoholic imbibing where "Mike tries an alcoholic drink" could not occur during the Divine Liturgy where we are offered and partake of the Sacred Body and Blood of Christ. We simply do not "try the Eucharist."

To reduce the Most Sacred Blood of our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ to a mere alcoholic drink could be considered to be blasphemous, if not outright blasphemy.

« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 03:17:30 AM by Maria »
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #77 on: November 12, 2013, 03:07:42 AM »
To reduce the Most Sacred Blood of our Lord God and Savior to a mere alcoholic drink could be considered to be blasphemous, if not outright blasphemy.

It is an alcoholic drink and it is Body and Blood of Christ.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #78 on: November 12, 2013, 03:36:00 AM »
The opposite of drunkedness is soberness.

When one is sober, one is watchful.

Being a trickster is not a sign of soberness, but is one of recklessness as the devil is a trickster and a shape-shifter.
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #79 on: November 12, 2013, 08:36:08 AM »
To reduce the Most Sacred Blood of our Lord God and Savior to a mere alcoholic drink could be considered to be blasphemous, if not outright blasphemy.

It is an alcoholic drink and it is Body and Blood of Christ.

Ever get drunk off of the Eucharist? Probably not.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #80 on: November 12, 2013, 08:37:32 AM »
The opposite of drunkedness is soberness.

Your comments are rarely sober. Does that mean you post while drunk?
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #81 on: November 12, 2013, 08:38:27 AM »
To reduce the Most Sacred Blood of our Lord God and Savior to a mere alcoholic drink could be considered to be blasphemous, if not outright blasphemy.

It is an alcoholic drink and it is Body and Blood of Christ.

Ever get drunk off of the Eucharist? Probably not.

Me not. On the other hand I've read here some posts by priests who sometimes get a bit dizzy after finishing the cup .

I suppose with cups like that it's not very difficult:

« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 08:39:00 AM by Michał Kalina »
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #82 on: November 12, 2013, 08:38:49 AM »
To reduce the Most Sacred Blood of our Lord God and Savior to a mere alcoholic drink could be considered to be blasphemous, if not outright blasphemy.

It is an alcoholic drink and it is Body and Blood of Christ.

Really, Michal?  The Blood of Christ is an alcoholic drink?



Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #83 on: November 12, 2013, 08:39:38 AM »
To reduce the Most Sacred Blood of our Lord God and Savior to a mere alcoholic drink could be considered to be blasphemous, if not outright blasphemy.

It is an alcoholic drink and it is Body and Blood of Christ.

Really, Michal?  The Blood of Christ is an alcoholic drink?

It does not stop being it after consecration.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 08:40:21 AM by Michał Kalina »
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #84 on: November 12, 2013, 08:41:04 AM »

But how can you so casually call it an "alcoholic drink"? 

It's not even a drink.
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #85 on: November 12, 2013, 08:45:17 AM »

But how can you so casually call it an "alcoholic drink"? 

It's not even a drink.

It's wine mixed with water in proportions like 3:2. It has like 6-10% of alcohol.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #86 on: November 12, 2013, 09:30:52 AM »
It's not even a drink.

"My Body is food indeed, and my Blood is drink indeed"
- John 6:55
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 09:35:35 AM by sheenj »

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #87 on: November 12, 2013, 09:47:12 AM »

But how can you so casually call it an "alcoholic drink"? 

It's not even a drink.

It's wine mixed with water in proportions like 3:2. It has like 6-10% of alcohol.

Your callousness towards the most HOLY EUCHARIST, the very Body and Blood of Christ, amazes me.

Instead of acknowledging the most holiest gift that we receive for the remission of our sins, you have brought it down to the level of a casual alcoholic beverage.



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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #88 on: November 12, 2013, 09:47:48 AM »
It's not even a drink.

"My Body is food indeed, and my Blood is drink indeed"
- John 6:55

I am not a priest.  I don't really "drink" it.   I get a spoonful of it.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #89 on: November 12, 2013, 09:54:08 AM »
It's not even a drink.

"My Body is food indeed, and my Blood is drink indeed"
- John 6:55

I am not a priest.  I don't really "drink" it.   I get a spoonful of it.

??? The Blood is still "a drink", no matter how you partake of it.