Author Topic: Drunkenness  (Read 6772 times)

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Offline Alpo

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Drunkenness
« on: November 10, 2013, 03:58:50 PM »
Have you ever a) heard a sermon about drunkenness b) been scolded by a priest for drinking too much c) confessed drinking too much?
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

Offline Dominika

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2013, 04:02:37 PM »
a) no
b) a bit, 3 times
c) yes
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Offline biro

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2013, 04:15:47 PM »
I've heard it mentioned in passing in a couple sermons. To the other two questions, yes and yes.
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Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2013, 04:17:26 PM »
Have you ever a) heard a sermon about drunkenness b) been scolded by a priest for drinking too much c) confessed drinking too much?

On 1, no, I never have.  Churches of all denominations seem to avoid this subject like the plague, and drugs are in the same category.  They won't preach or even comment on this subject, though I have no idea--nor even a good guess--as to why this is.  Drugs and alcohol have nearly overtaken our entire society, speaking with reference to america--I don't know how bad it is in other countries, although it got quite as bad as it was in Russia right before the revolution, and throughout Soviet rule.  It's generally used to subdue the population, and I see our government doing the same thing.  It failed in the Soviet Union and I believe it will fail here.

On 2 and 3, my answer is also 'no.'  I'm not a teetotaler, but I'll only have 2-3 wine coolers per year.  My family on my father's side was nearly all alcoholics, and I think growing up watching every one of my uncles staggering around with blood-shot eyes kinda pushed me over to the non-drinking side of the fence.  I've heard that when people grow up around drunks or people who use drugs--relatives are always drunk or high--the children grow up either doing the same thing or they go to the other extreme, abstaining entirely, much to the delight of Carrie Nation's ghost.  I have no problem being around a bunch of people having a beer or two at a barbecue, but to this day, I can't be around drunks or hang out in bars.  I used to live in State College, and in that area, you didn't have to venture out to find drunks or addicts.  They came and found you.  No idea how I lasted four years in that area.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 04:20:24 PM by newtoorthodoxy »
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2013, 04:20:33 PM »
I heard oftentimes injunctions against drunkedness in Romania. Not i the US.
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Offline mike

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2013, 05:01:32 PM »
c) yes
a) probably
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Offline Maria

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2013, 05:04:02 PM »
a) no
b) no - but I have heard others talk about the sermon Father gave them in the confessional for partying and being a bad example to those around them. They joked because Father asked who their drinking buddies were, and when the drinking buddies went to confession, they got the same sermon.
c) no
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 05:06:29 PM by Maria »
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Offline mike

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2013, 05:07:42 PM »
They joked because Father asked who their drinking buddies were,

You seem to witness many confession abuses.
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Offline Maria

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2013, 05:09:55 PM »
They joked because Father asked who their drinking buddies were,

You seem to witness many confession abuses.

The joke was that Father knew who their drinking buddies were as they often asked him over for a drink.
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
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Offline Maria

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2013, 05:12:32 PM »
By the way, I did a search of "confession abuses" and here are the results:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?action=search2

The only three results were your post and my two responses to your post.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 05:14:06 PM by Maria »
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2013, 06:40:17 PM »
Have you ever a) heard a sermon about drunkenness b) been scolded by a priest for drinking too much c) confessed drinking too much?

a) Plenty of times
b) I've never been scolded for drinking too much.  I've been scolded just for holding someone else's drink. 
c) N/a
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Offline katherine 2001

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2013, 08:38:16 PM »
I've heard sermons about drunkenness and I've had priests remind people about not drinking to access at the breaking of the fast after the Paschal liturgy (which by the way was needed, people were definitely getting drunk).  However, I do not drink, so I can honestly answer no to the other questions (I have no problem with other people drinking, but both of my parents were alcoholics and both my brothers have struggled with it to.  Thank goodness I don't like alcohol, so it's not a temptation for me.  I will take the wine right after communion, but other than that I don't drink (and I think I only drink it then because I am so thirsty).

Offline Agabus

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2013, 09:06:27 PM »
A). many times, though not in an Orthodox church.

B). Yes.

C). Every time.
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Offline JamesR

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2013, 09:15:37 PM »
1) Yes, but not directly. My Priest never gave a sermon solely dedicated to drunkenness and/or alcoholism, but he has given sermons about addiction and mentioned alcoholism in the sermon.

2) No, I'm underage and don't drink (although I occasionally smoke cigars)

3) No

On a related note, something that bothers me very much in the Orthodox Church is that drunkenness and alcoholism seems to be accepted or at the very best ignored and swept under the rug. Yet, marijuana is horribly stigmatized and people who smoke it are stereotyped as being dumb stoners. Alcohol and being drunk is MUCH worse than smoking marijuana and being high from it. For starters, I've NEVER seen a pothead get violent or angry while under the influence of marijuana--most of them just seem tired and passed out afterward--whereas I've seen several alcoholics who become violent and abuse their wives when they drink. But, of course, alcohol is accepted as okay but marijuana is horrible and bad. Personally, I'd rather refrain from both (which is what I've done) but if I had to choose a safer, less-harmful one, I'd definitely choose marijuana.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 09:32:14 PM by JamesR »

Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2013, 09:20:06 PM »
I was best man for a wedding rehearsal where the RC priest was drunk.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2013, 09:21:38 PM »
On a related note, something that bothers me very much in the Orthodox Church is that drunkenness and alcoholism seems to be accepted or at the very best ignored and swept under the rug. Yet, marijuana is horribly stigmatized and people who spoke it are stereotyped as being dumb stoners. Alcohol and being drunk is MUCH more worse than smoking marijuana and being high from it. For starters, I've NEVER seen a pothead get violent or angry while under the influence of marijuana--most of them just seem tired and passed out afterward--whereas I've seen several alcoholics who become violent and abuse their wives when they drink. But, of course, alcohol is accepted as okay but marijuana is horrible and bad. Personally, I'd rather refrain from both (which is what I've done) but if I had to choose a safer, less-harmful one, I'd definitely choose marijuana.

Please, not this again! 
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Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2013, 09:34:44 PM »
On a related note, something that bothers me very much in the Orthodox Church is that drunkenness and alcoholism seems to be accepted or at the very best ignored and swept under the rug. Yet, marijuana is horribly stigmatized and people who spoke it are stereotyped as being dumb stoners. Alcohol and being drunk is MUCH more worse than smoking marijuana and being high from it. For starters, I've NEVER seen a pothead get violent or angry while under the influence of marijuana--most of them just seem tired and passed out afterward--whereas I've seen several alcoholics who become violent and abuse their wives when they drink. But, of course, alcohol is accepted as okay but marijuana is horrible and bad. Personally, I'd rather refrain from both (which is what I've done) but if I had to choose a safer, less-harmful one, I'd definitely choose marijuana.

Please, not this again! 

Yes, please not this again. 
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Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2013, 09:36:01 PM »
I was best man for a wedding rehearsal where the RC priest was drunk.

This is what happens when we start losing our ability to discern right from wrong.  I never would have let that priest perform the marriage.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2013, 09:26:54 AM »
1. no
2. no
3. all the time.....


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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2013, 09:41:28 AM »
Have you ever a) heard a sermon about drunkenness b) been scolded by a priest for drinking too much c) confessed drinking too much?

No to all three. It may be the Greek drinking culture, but alcoholism is not a huge problem there, neither is binge drinking. Personally, too much booze tends to make me sleepy, so I can't really go beyond the 'buzzed' stage, which has spared me the usual aftermath (throwing up, hangover, blackouts). I've been well and truly drunk (and yet quite lucid) precisely once in my life.
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Offline Robert scho

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2013, 10:19:42 AM »
Blessings;

The argument: "Where's drinking listed in the commandments?"
The counter  : Alcohol isn't listed as a commandment, "it's just a tool or vehicle to breaking all ten"...

Pot? Is it not enough of a challenge to spiritually follow what is good and right and just and true (if we love our lord we will keep his commandments) let alone to attempt truth under a haze of poison smoke?....

Also,no to all the Q's.

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Offline mike

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2013, 10:21:51 AM »
Pot? Is it not enough of a challenge to spiritually follow what is good and right and just and true (if we love our lord we will keep his commandments) let alone to attempt truth under a haze of poison smoke?....


Not really. It makes you lazy and not eager to do anything, including sinning.
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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2013, 10:31:03 AM »
Pot? Is it not enough of a challenge to spiritually follow what is good and right and just and true (if we love our lord we will keep his commandments) let alone to attempt truth under a haze of poison smoke?....


Not really. It makes you lazy and not eager to do anything, including sinning.

^ That, in itself is a sin.

You should never let anything alter your mind.  Not drinking, drugs, video game obsessions, etc.  NOTHING should cloud your judgment.  ALL addictions are bad.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2013, 10:33:59 AM »
You should never let anything alter your mind.

I disagree. Depends how, when and why.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2013, 10:35:31 AM »
You should never let anything alter your mind.

I disagree. Depends how, when and why.

The ONLY reason I could imagine, is if someone has a mental illness and needs these types of medications to help them live a normal life.

Otherwise, I would disagree with you.

It's never permitted to "lose" your whits.

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2013, 10:37:32 AM »
It's never permitted to "lose" your whits.

Marijuana doesn't make one lose whits. At least what I observed.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2013, 10:40:59 AM »
I never heard a sermon about drunkenness (As Catholic or Orthodox).  Nor about abortion, either (as Orthodox).

My cousin's husband converted to Byzantine Catholicism after his Pentecostal family became very mean and abusive to my cousin when they found out her faith.  After their Byzantine Catholic wedding, they saw the priest that married them at another wedding.   The priest came up to my cousin's new husband, put his arm on his shoulder and asked my cousin's husband  to go up to the bar and get him a scotch.   This really surprised my cousin's formerly Pentecostal husband who didn't come from a 100% Slavic family of steel workers and factory workers.   ( I was given Slivovitz to drink when I was in elementary school.....  And my father was given cloths soaked in whiskey while he was teething which probably set him up for the alcoholism that he suffers from to this day.  And it seemed that we could do a lot of Christmas shopping at the liquor store, buying bottles of whiskey for family members as Christmas gifts.)  I really turned against alcohol when I was 15 and got drunk on Christmas day with my Croatian family  after attending Divine Liturgy with my Rusyn family.   Somehow being drunk on Christmas day seemed so wrong that it gave me a very strong message. Now I might take a few sips of my husband's shot of Slivovitz once a year at the Serbian festival or some vodka at a Russian festival,  and a small glass of wine a few times a year, but that's really it.

Offline Adela

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2013, 10:47:12 AM »
It's never permitted to "lose" your whits.

Marijuana doesn't make one lose whits. At least what I observed.

Perhaps there isn't a Meigs County in Poland and perhaps you've never seen someone smoke some weed laced with PCP......  I've seen people really get spaced out on marijuana and I wouldn't want to let my mind get altered in this manner, without a strong medical reason for doing so.

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2013, 10:57:21 AM »
It's never permitted to "lose" your whits.

Marijuana doesn't make one lose whits. At least what I observed.

Just how much experience do you have with weed?

...and what exactly is the reason for smoking it?

If it has not effect, than why bother?



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Offline Hawkeye

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2013, 10:59:02 AM »
Somehow being drunk on Christmas day seemed so wrong that it gave me a very strong message.

Now if only you could pass that message along to the unmarried and the youths around these parts.

They're drunk straight out of the church on Pascha morning and don't slow down until Thomas comes around.
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Offline mike

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2013, 11:00:21 AM »
Just how much experience do you have with weed?

...and what exactly is the reason for smoking it?

If it has not effect, than why bother?

I'm not convinced I should talk about it in Public Forum.

They're drunk straight out of the church on Pascha morning and don't slow down until Thomas comes around.

Pascal vespers is always fun. Especially carrying a banner.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 11:00:35 AM by Michał Kalina »
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #31 on: November 11, 2013, 11:01:22 AM »
Just how much experience do you have with weed?

...and what exactly is the reason for smoking it?

If it has not effect, than why bother?

I'm not convinced I should talk about it in Public Forum.


Well, if you don't want to talk about in the Public Forum, than don't present yourself as some kind of expert on the subject matter.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2013, 11:03:20 AM »
They're drunk straight out of the church on Pascha morning and don't slow down until Thomas comes around.

Pascal vespers is always fun. Especially carrying a banner.

Church is packed in the morning with hardly any room to move.

Vespers? Barely enough people to keep the show going. They're all too busy partying.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2013, 11:04:09 AM »
Have you ever a) heard a sermon about drunkenness b) been scolded by a priest for drinking too much c) confessed drinking too much?

a) Yes
b) No
c) n/a

I've never understood the need to get "drunk".

Seems like a silly thing to do to your body and mind.

What's the point of "having fun", if you don't remember having the fun the next day?

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #34 on: November 11, 2013, 11:23:41 AM »
To the OP, this is how it goes at my (priestless) Old Believer parish:

After services are over, the older folk ask everyone to sit down and stay for a moment, (a) before complaining about the drunkenness (b) of all the younger folk present. (c) They then demand that all of the offenders - which is, honestly, most everyone there - confess their crimes and perform public penance for several weeks.

Rinse and repeat ad nauseam. You'd think that something would change but it doesn't. This spectacle has become more like a required sacrament rather than a rectifying measure.

I've gone through it once but, admittedly, I've been drunk several times since then.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2013, 12:24:53 PM »
Somehow being drunk on Christmas day seemed so wrong that it gave me a very strong message.

Now if only you could pass that message along to the unmarried and the youths around these parts.

They're drunk straight out of the church on Pascha morning and don't slow down until Thomas comes around.

That sounds truly Orthodox. Maybe I should anathematize Nikon.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2013, 01:04:33 PM »
Also important to note, I have a couple glasses of burgundy a month and definitely wont judge people for vices but it is important not to be "given" to any vice.

And Uh Oh- I may have messed up the content of the poll part of this thread because anybody answering after my post cannot say no to the sermon part of it? Haaaaaa

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #37 on: November 11, 2013, 01:40:51 PM »
Pascal vespers is always fun. Especially carrying a banner.

Unfortuantely they're not done in my parish. Actually, in Warsaw they're served only in the cathedral. But it's too long distance and too early. At this time (1 pm or something like that) I usually start drinking wine or I'm in the middle of first bottle, as we break the fast and start solem breakfast around 9-10 am. If the service was done at e.g 5 pm, I would attend it gaily.


I've never understood the need to get "drunk".
What's the point of "having fun", if you don't remember having the fun the next day?
Being drunk doesn't necesarilly mean to don't remember this "having fun". Actually, only 2 times have happenned to me to don't remember something while I was drunked and they're just very small pieces). But, generally I agree, that being drunked doesn't give so much fun. I prefer the state just right before being drunkend, I mean this state of joy, you know what I'm thinking about
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #38 on: November 11, 2013, 01:49:20 PM »
I've never understood the need to get "drunk".

Seems like a silly thing to do to your body and mind.

What's the point of "having fun", if you don't remember having the fun the next day?

It's a social thing. The thing is not being drunk but spending time with your friends. Sometimes alcohol can be used to facilitate that.
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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #39 on: November 11, 2013, 01:49:54 PM »
Being drunk doesn't necesarilly mean to don't remember this "having fun". Actually, only 2 times have happenned to me to don't remember something while I was drunked and they're just very small pieces). But, generally I agree, that being drunked doesn't give so much fun. I prefer the state just right before being drunkend, I mean this state of joy, you know what I'm thinking about

...;)  actually, I don't know.

I've had a few drinks here and there.  A glass of wine, champagne, etc. on special occasions.

I've seen what drink does to people, and I didn't like what I saw.  So, I generally stay away from it.  I've never had more than one glass of wine, at a time, and therefore, have never gotten to the point of drunkenness.

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #40 on: November 11, 2013, 01:50:38 PM »
I've never understood the need to get "drunk".

Seems like a silly thing to do to your body and mind.

What's the point of "having fun", if you don't remember having the fun the next day?

It's a social thing. The thing is not being drunk but spending time with your friends. Sometimes alcohol can be used to facilitate that.

I do this all the time with my friends....only it's usually over coffee.

We've got some great coffee shops in my area.  No need to go bar hopping.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #41 on: November 11, 2013, 02:01:44 PM »

...;)  actually, I don't know.

That you're able to control rourself, but you're more relaxed, happy, more open to communicate with people, laughing etc. It's the state (well, it depends on the person, but at least that's my case) after 2-4 glasses of wine or 2-3 cans/bottles of beer. If I drink more, usually I'm getting drunekd and yea, then it's definitely a sin as I can't control what I'm doing.

I've never had more than one glass of wine, at a time, and therefore, have never gotten to the point of drunkenness.
Wow. You're probably first Ukrainian with such attitude that I've "met" ;)
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #42 on: November 11, 2013, 02:03:46 PM »
I've never understood the need to get "drunk".

Seems like a silly thing to do to your body and mind.

What's the point of "having fun", if you don't remember having the fun the next day?

It's a social thing. The thing is not being drunk but spending time with your friends. Sometimes alcohol can be used to facilitate that.

I do this all the time with my friends....only it's usually over coffee.

We've got some great coffee shops in my area.  No need to go bar hopping.


That's fun too. But different kind of fun is had with beer.
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Leviticus 19:34

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #43 on: November 11, 2013, 02:07:00 PM »
I've never understood the need to get "drunk".

Seems like a silly thing to do to your body and mind.

What's the point of "having fun", if you don't remember having the fun the next day?

It's a social thing. The thing is not being drunk but spending time with your friends. Sometimes alcohol can be used to facilitate that.

I do this all the time with my friends....only it's usually over coffee.

We've got some great coffee shops in my area.  No need to go bar hopping.


That's fun too. But different kind of fun is had with beer.

Finns appreciate the bean as well. They're the biggest coffee drinkers in the world, I seem to recall. ;)
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #44 on: November 11, 2013, 02:17:20 PM »
Correct. We love to drink all kind of things.
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #45 on: November 11, 2013, 02:22:25 PM »
Wow. You're probably first Ukrainian with such attitude that I've "met" ;)

There are a few of us who don't really drink.  ;)
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #46 on: November 11, 2013, 02:30:53 PM »
Wow. You're probably first Ukrainian with such attitude that I've "met" ;)

There are a few of us who don't really drink.  ;)

I have met some more, but they were all female.

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #47 on: November 11, 2013, 03:25:14 PM »
I was best man for a wedding rehearsal where the RC priest was drunk.

This is what happens when we start losing our ability to discern right from wrong.  I never would have let that priest perform the marriage.

Couldn't that invalidate the marriage legally by having a drunk perform the service?
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #48 on: November 11, 2013, 03:27:47 PM »
Pot? Is it not enough of a challenge to spiritually follow what is good and right and just and true (if we love our lord we will keep his commandments) let alone to attempt truth under a haze of poison smoke?....


Not really. It makes you lazy and not eager to do anything, including sinning.

^ That, in itself is a sin.

You should never let anything alter your mind.  Not drinking, drugs, video game obsessions, etc.  NOTHING should cloud your judgment.  ALL addictions are bad.


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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #49 on: November 11, 2013, 03:31:04 PM »
Somehow being drunk on Christmas day seemed so wrong that it gave me a very strong message.

Now if only you could pass that message along to the unmarried and the youths around these parts.

They're drunk straight out of the church on Pascha morning and don't slow down until Thomas comes around.

Ah! Perhaps that is the reason why so many Orthodox Christians do not attend the Divine Liturgy on Thomas Sunday. The church is almost empty that day!
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #50 on: November 11, 2013, 03:31:30 PM »
Alcohol facilitates communication like nothing else. That alone should commend it.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #51 on: November 11, 2013, 03:38:55 PM »
Alcohol facilitates communication like nothing else. That alone should commend it.

Actually, alcohol impairs communication just like it impairs driving.

People are so impaired that they think they are speaking and driving flawlessly, when they are not.

My brother, who used to be an itinerant preacher, liked to get drunk just before delivering a homily or a eulogy. Lord have mercy. His tongue was loosened, but then he would ramble, and then congratulated himself for a free-flowing speech. Ugh.

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #52 on: November 11, 2013, 03:41:26 PM »
Sounds like me I'm most eloquent when tipsy. But I've made plenty of friends over drinks. So ...
She hears, upon that water without sound,
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Is not the porch of spirits lingering.
It is the grave of Jesus, where he lay.”
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #53 on: November 11, 2013, 03:43:33 PM »
I have never heard a sermon solely on the subject.  I would think such a thing would be prompted only if a major problem with alcohol was observed in that particular community. 

Drunkenness is a sin, though, so we should expect to be chastised if we engage in drunkenness. 
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 04:10:59 PM by jah777 »

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #54 on: November 11, 2013, 04:12:00 PM »
Do Finns have a more refinded Western European style beer palate? They tend to culturally avoid some of the dump-truck alcohol of Eastern Europe, but I'm not sure about this.

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #55 on: November 11, 2013, 04:17:54 PM »
Pot? Is it not enough of a challenge to spiritually follow what is good and right and just and true (if we love our lord we will keep his commandments) let alone to attempt truth under a haze of poison smoke?....


Not really. It makes you lazy and not eager to do anything, including sinning.

^ That, in itself is a sin.

You should never let anything alter your mind.  Not drinking, drugs, video game obsessions, etc.  NOTHING should cloud your judgment.  ALL addictions are bad.


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I second that.  

You can always see just how bad the drug and drinking problem is when you see threads like this, and how many defend it.  

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19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

That's pretty cut and dried.  It should be enough to know God doesn't want us doing this crap.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 04:18:24 PM by newtoorthodoxy »
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #56 on: November 11, 2013, 04:48:07 PM »
Do Finns have a more refinded Western European style beer palate? They tend to culturally avoid some of the dump-truck alcohol of Eastern Europe, but I'm not sure about this.

Not sure if I understood what you're asking but AFAIK most of the alcohol consumed here is Finnish and far from refined.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #57 on: November 11, 2013, 06:19:15 PM »
You can always see just how bad the drug and drinking problem is when you see threads like this, and how many defend it.   

The majority of people on this forum IME are against drug use and drunkenness, but a vocal minority like to bring it up (in the same way that a few vocal people want to defend homosexual marriage or at-will abortion or other activities that are discouraged or forbidden by the Church).  The number of threads is indeed an indication of how prevalent it is in society, sure, but I think the group here generally (not always) have their heads screwed on straight.

As to the OP's questions: yes, I've heard sermons against drunkenness/drug use (and I've given them, too), yes, I've been asked about alcohol consumption in confession (nearly every time), and yes, I've confessed it when I've needed to.
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Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #58 on: November 11, 2013, 07:18:11 PM »
You can always see just how bad the drug and drinking problem is when you see threads like this, and how many defend it.   

The majority of people on this forum IME are against drug use and drunkenness, but a vocal minority like to bring it up (in the same way that a few vocal people want to defend homosexual marriage or at-will abortion or other activities that are discouraged or forbidden by the Church).  The number of threads is indeed an indication of how prevalent it is in society, sure, but I think the group here generally (not always) have their heads screwed on straight.

As to the OP's questions: yes, I've heard sermons against drunkenness/drug use (and I've given them, too), yes, I've been asked about alcohol consumption in confession (nearly every time), and yes, I've confessed it when I've needed to.

I agree.


Matthew 5:17-19

17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


I added the italics. 

This scripture, as well as Galatians 5:19-21, should actually be very troubling to those people.  We're not supposed to be excusing our own sins, nor encouraging others to do the same.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #59 on: November 11, 2013, 07:27:02 PM »
I was best man for a wedding rehearsal where the RC priest was drunk.

This is what happens when we start losing our ability to discern right from wrong.  I never would have let that priest perform the marriage.

Maybe then God would not forgive your sins.

You see God gave wine to those who already had too much at the wedding of Cana (Jn 2:10), he stood in front of the crowd who were in the right according to the law to stone the whore(Jn 8:7), he sat for dinner with the outcasts (Lk19:5), Jesus said God desires mercy above all else (Mt 9:13,5:7).

Similar is the example of waiting for the wheat to grow fully before pulling out the weeds(Mt 13:30), or forgiving the thief on the cross next to him(Lk 23:43.

The priest was fine for the wedding, the groom may have warned him, I never asked about it.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #60 on: November 11, 2013, 07:29:51 PM »
This scripture, as well as Galatians 5:19-21, should actually be very troubling to those people.  We're not supposed to be excusing our own sins, nor encouraging others to do the same.

I love when people invoke Scriptural passages such as this one because, typically, they are focusing on two or three sins out of a list of fifteen, and those sins usually happen to be the sins they themselves don't have to deal with.  You're right in saying that this passage should trouble people.  Actually, this passage should trouble those who wield it as a weapon against others just as much as it troubles their intended targets.    
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #61 on: November 11, 2013, 08:04:16 PM »
This scripture, as well as Galatians 5:19-21, should actually be very troubling to those people.  We're not supposed to be excusing our own sins, nor encouraging others to do the same.

I love when people invoke Scriptural passages such as this one because, typically, they are focusing on two or three sins out of a list of fifteen, and those sins usually happen to be the sins they themselves don't have to deal with.  You're right in saying that this passage should trouble people.  Actually, this passage should trouble those who wield it as a weapon against others just as much as it troubles their intended targets.    

Okay, you win.  I'll start using drugs and getting drunk every day and pick myself up some good porn.  Why are people who encourage this stuff and justify this stuff not 'rebuked' at all, while those who are troubled by it are constantly corrected?  We're neither supposed to discern sin, nor judge it?  We're not supposed to judge sin.  We were NEVER supposed to stop judging sin.  I can't imagine why you'd be gunning for me.  No problem, I just need to acclimate myself to the world and do what everyone else is doing.  

There's a bunch of scripture 'invoked' in the post above yours, but it was only a problem when I did it?  I can 'invoke' scripture to excuse sin, but not to prove that some behavior is so obviously not what God wants?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 08:06:44 PM by newtoorthodoxy »
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #62 on: November 11, 2013, 08:12:58 PM »
Pray those souls to be released from vice and find the pure breath of life in Christ with clarity and love.
For a Christian ending to our life, painless, blameless, peaceful; and a good defense before the dread judgement seat of Christ, let us ask of the Lord.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #63 on: November 11, 2013, 08:16:19 PM »
This scripture, as well as Galatians 5:19-21, should actually be very troubling to those people.  We're not supposed to be excusing our own sins, nor encouraging others to do the same.

I love when people invoke Scriptural passages such as this one because, typically, they are focusing on two or three sins out of a list of fifteen, and those sins usually happen to be the sins they themselves don't have to deal with.  You're right in saying that this passage should trouble people.  Actually, this passage should trouble those who wield it as a weapon against others just as much as it troubles their intended targets.    

Okay, you win.  I'll start using drugs and getting drunk every day and pick myself up some good porn.  Why are people who encourage this stuff and justify this stuff not 'rebuked' at all, while those who are troubled by it are constantly corrected?  We're neither supposed to discern sin, nor judge it?  We're not supposed to judge sin.  We were NEVER supposed to stop judging sin.  I can't imagine why you'd be gunning for me.  No problem, I just need to acclimate myself to the world and do what everyone else is doing.  

There's a bunch of scripture 'invoked' in the post above yours, but it was only a problem when I did it?  I can 'invoke' scripture to excuse sin, but not to prove that some behavior is so obviously not what God wants?


No matter what we say, boys who suffer from the Peter Pan Syndrome and who have never grown up, will not listen to us of the feminine persuasion as porn, drugs, and alcohol appeal to the pot head generation.

If we gals try to preach, then scriptures, especially the Pauline ones, are always quoted telling us to be quiet. If we persist, then it is like banging our heads against the wall.

However, even though we are powerless, God is all-powerful.

Through our good example and faith, we can pray that the next time Mike tries an alcoholic drink, that it will taste like vomit.

The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #64 on: November 11, 2013, 08:23:49 PM »


A GO priest once told me why we focus on the New Testament, because the Old Testament simply shows that we are all guilty of sin requiring the New Testament for salvation. The worst thing any Christian can do is to act above anothers sin, that is where we lose our ability to be forgiven our own sins.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 08:24:24 PM by Sinful Hypocrite »
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #65 on: November 11, 2013, 08:47:27 PM »


A GO priest once told me why we focus on the New Testament, because the Old Testament simply shows that we are all guilty of sin requiring the New Testament for salvation. The worst thing any Christian can do is to act above anothers sin, that is where we lose our ability to be forgiven our own sins.

That is why our prayer at Communion says,
Quote
I believe, O Lord, and I confess that Thou art truly the Christ, the Son of the Living God, who didst come into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. And I believe that this is truly Thine own immaculate Body, and that this is Thine own precious Blood. Wherefore I pray thee, have mercy upon me and forgive my transgressions both voluntary and involuntary, of word and of deed, of knowledge and of ignorance; and make me worthy to partake without condemnation of Thine immaculate Mysteries, unto remission of my sins and unto life everlasting. Amen.

A Pocket Prayer Book for Orthodox Christians [the red book], Antiochian Christian Archdiocese, Englewood, NJ, 2000, p. 98.
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #66 on: November 11, 2013, 08:52:02 PM »
Through our good example and faith, we can pray that the next time Mike tries an alcoholic drink, that it will taste like vomit.

You mean Eucharist?
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #67 on: November 11, 2013, 09:01:15 PM »
Okay, you win.  I'll start using drugs and getting drunk every day and pick myself up some good porn.

If that's what you took away from my post, I think you need to read it again some other time.     

Quote
Why are people who encourage this stuff and justify this stuff not 'rebuked' at all, while those who are troubled by it are constantly corrected?  We're neither supposed to discern sin, nor judge it?  We're not supposed to judge sin.  We were NEVER supposed to stop judging sin.  I can't imagine why you'd be gunning for me.  No problem, I just need to acclimate myself to the world and do what everyone else is doing.  

I wasn't "gunning" for you, and I'm sorry I gave you that impression.  I made a general comment based on your post.  If someone else made that point, I would've made the same comment with reference to their post.

I don't like the selective reading of Scripture.  If it was OK to do that, I'd be the first one doing it because that'd make my life a lot easier.  I wish I could ignore more of it sincerely and be happy.  Unfortunately, I have to take into account all of Scripture if I'm going to have any hope of understanding it on its own terms (God's terms) and applying it.  

So, for example, I find it difficult:

a) to decry drugs, alcohol, and porn under the category of "immorality, impurity, sensuality, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these" in the way some posters in this thread and others in other threads throughout this forum do

b) and at the same time escape falling into "enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions".  

According to St Paul, all of those things cut us off from the kingdom of God.  

What's the use of crying out against the sins of substance abuse and pornography if you're going to fall into sins that just as equally get you disinherited from God's kingdom?  Is it worth it?  

The truth is that it's very difficult for most of us to condemn certain sins while loving the sinner and praying and hoping for their conversion.  We identify the sinner with his sin, judge them negatively as a lesser being, and consider ourselves better than him.  For example, someone might say the following:

Quote
Porn, getting drunk, and getting high are not what mediocre Christians do--that stuff is really bad.  I'd happily settle for mediocre.  I've done enough bad and enough wrong in my life to spend all of eternity in hell, and I still never did any of this stuff.  

Porn and substance abuse are sinful, no doubt.  But a person who makes such a comment as above has gone beyond that to condemn a class of people and pat himself on the back for not being as bad as they.  At this point, have they not also fallen into enmities, strife, anger, disputes, dissensions, and factions?  And if the person says they've done enough to deserve hell and yet were not so bad as to engage in porn and substance abuse, what hell-worthy sins did they commit?  Maybe they're more acceptable in polite society than porn and pot, but if they still get you impaled on a spit roasting in the fires of hell, so what?  

Regarding the post above mine which you referred to, I've argued in the past with SH over what I feel is his questionable method of Scriptural interpretation, but in this situation I felt his post provided a needed counterbalance.  
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #68 on: November 11, 2013, 09:09:25 PM »
I love when people invoke Scriptural passages such as this one because, typically, they are focusing on two or three sins out of a list of fifteen, and those sins usually happen to be the sins they themselves don't have to deal with.  You're right in saying that this passage should trouble people.  Actually, this passage should trouble those who wield it as a weapon against others just as much as it troubles their intended targets.    

Okay, you win.  I'll start using drugs and getting drunk every day and pick myself up some good porn.  Why are people who encourage this stuff and justify this stuff not 'rebuked' at all, while those who are troubled by it are constantly corrected?  We're neither supposed to discern sin, nor judge it?  We're not supposed to judge sin.  We were NEVER supposed to stop judging sin.  I can't imagine why you'd be gunning for me.  No problem, I just need to acclimate myself to the world and do what everyone else is doing.  

There's a bunch of scripture 'invoked' in the post above yours, but it was only a problem when I did it?  I can 'invoke' scripture to excuse sin, but not to prove that some behavior is so obviously not what God wants?


No matter what we say, boys who suffer from the Peter Pan Syndrome and who have never grown up, will not listen to us of the feminine persuasion as porn, drugs, and alcohol appeal to the pot head generation.

If we gals try to preach, then scriptures, especially the Pauline ones, are always quoted telling us to be quiet. If we persist, then it is like banging our heads against the wall.

Since my post was the only one included in the string of quotes you responded to that was also written by a "boy", am I correct in presuming that I suffer from Peter Pan Syndrome, have never grown up, and am a member of the pot head generation?  Have I quoted Pauline Scriptures to tell women to keep quiet? 

I just want to make sure I understand what you're saying. 

Quote
However, even though we are powerless, God is all-powerful.

Through our good example and faith, we can pray that the next time Mike tries an alcoholic drink, that it will taste like vomit.

Good girls don't pray and tell. 
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #69 on: November 11, 2013, 09:10:15 PM »
Through our good example and faith, we can pray that the next time Mike tries an alcoholic drink, that it will taste like vomit.

You mean Eucharist?

Really? 
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #70 on: November 11, 2013, 09:22:11 PM »
Okay, you win.  I'll start using drugs and getting drunk every day and pick myself up some good porn.

If that's what you took away from my post, I think you need to read it again some other time.    


I meant that in sincerity.  I am not under a separate set of rules from everyone else, and it's apparent that I'm just one of a very few people who think there's even a problem with this stuff, so obviously, I'm the one who's wrong.  And if God had a problem with us getting high, then there wouldn't be marijuana plants growing in every crack and crevice of this planet.  Why am I missing out?  For what possible reason?  I was serious.  This stuff is okay, so there's no reason for me to miss out or to argue against those who use it.

Quote

I wasn't "gunning" for you, and I'm sorry I gave you that impression.  

 

I think the fact that we seemed to be having the same conversation on three threads is what gave me that impression.

Quote

I don't like the selective reading of Scripture.  


It is impossible not to be selective of scripture, because you have to discern which verses pertain to the topic at hand.  Otherwise, most if not all of the discussions in this forum would make no sense.


As to the rest of it, I concede the point.  There's nothing wrong with any of that stuff, and as humans, we're allowed to do whatever we want to, God loves sinners, and the price has already been paid.  This is what free will is for.  If I would just get with the program, I wouldn't get into any of the arguments I get into, and probably wouldn't have most of the problems I have.  I completely and wholly concede the point.  There's nothing wrong with porn, pot, or getting wasted on beer.  It's not wrong.  If anything, it's funny.  
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 09:23:44 PM by newtoorthodoxy »
Some of my questions might appear patently stupid to those well-versed in Orthodoxy, but I'm brand new, having no background in the faith.  Please grant me a great deal of patience and consideration as I learn the basics.

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #71 on: November 11, 2013, 09:32:36 PM »

Okay, you win.  I'll start using drugs and getting drunk every day and pick myself up some good porn.  Why are people who encourage this stuff and justify this stuff not 'rebuked' at all, while those who are troubled by it are constantly corrected?  We're neither supposed to discern sin, nor judge it?  We're not supposed to judge sin.  We were NEVER supposed to stop judging sin.  I can't imagine why you'd be gunning for me.  No problem, I just need to acclimate myself to the world and do what everyone else is doing.  

There's a bunch of scripture 'invoked' in the post above yours, but it was only a problem when I did it?  I can 'invoke' scripture to excuse sin, but not to prove that some behavior is so obviously not what God wants?


No matter what we say, boys who suffer from the Peter Pan Syndrome and who have never grown up, will not listen to us of the feminine persuasion as porn, drugs, and alcohol appeal to the pot head generation.

If we gals try to preach, then scriptures, especially the Pauline ones, are always quoted telling us to be quiet. If we persist, then it is like banging our heads against the wall.

Since my post was the only one included in the string of quotes you responded to that was also written by a "boy", am I correct in presuming that I suffer from Peter Pan Syndrome, have never grown up, and am a member of the pot head generation?  Have I quoted Pauline Scriptures to tell women to keep quiet?  

I just want to make sure I understand what you're saying.

I was addressing my post to all the immature boys in this thread who are advocating, tolerating and excusing their use of porn or abuse of marijuana, alcohol or drugs. Not to you, Mor.

Listen, aren't we living in the Kingdom?  If so, shouldn't we be shining examples of virtue?

Some of the people in this thread appear to have no idea that they are driving inquirers and seekers away from the Holy Orthodox Church.


« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 09:34:12 PM by Maria »
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #72 on: November 11, 2013, 09:36:13 PM »
Okay, you win.  I'll start using drugs and getting drunk every day and pick myself up some good porn.

If that's what you took away from my post, I think you need to read it again some other time.    


I meant that in sincerity.  I am not under a separate set of rules from everyone else, and it's apparent that I'm just one of a very few people who think there's even a problem with this stuff, so obviously, I'm the one who's wrong.  And if God had a problem with us getting high, then there wouldn't be marijuana plants growing in every crack and crevice of this planet.  Why am I missing out?  For what possible reason?  I was serious.  This stuff is okay, so there's no reason for me to miss out or to argue against those who use it.

Quote

I wasn't "gunning" for you, and I'm sorry I gave you that impression.  

 

I think the fact that we seemed to be having the same conversation on three threads is what gave me that impression.

Quote

I don't like the selective reading of Scripture.  


It is impossible not to be selective of scripture, because you have to discern which verses pertain to the topic at hand.  Otherwise, most if not all of the discussions in this forum would make no sense.


As to the rest of it, I concede the point.  There's nothing wrong with any of that stuff, and as humans, we're allowed to do whatever we want to, God loves sinners, and the price has already been paid.  This is what free will is for.  If I would just get with the program, I wouldn't get into any of the arguments I get into, and probably wouldn't have most of the problems I have.  I completely and wholly concede the point.  There's nothing wrong with porn, pot, or getting wasted on beer.  It's not wrong.  If anything, it's funny.  

I think a few smilies like this  ::)  or this  :'( would be helpful.
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #73 on: November 11, 2013, 09:52:13 PM »
I was best man for a wedding rehearsal where the RC priest was drunk.

This is what happens when we start losing our ability to discern right from wrong.  I never would have let that priest perform the marriage.

Couldn't that invalidate the marriage legally by having a drunk perform the service?

I'd be curious to know what the Orthodox answer to this would be. As a former RC I'm sure you know that they believe the couple being married are ministers of the sacrament so he was probably fine on that score in his mind.  ;)
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #74 on: November 11, 2013, 10:00:28 PM »
I'd be curious to know what the Orthodox answer to this would be. As a former RC I'm sure you know that they believe the couple being married are ministers of the sacrament so he was probably fine on that score in his mind.  ;)

In both cases, Orthodox and Roman Catholic, despite differing theologies on who ministers the sacrament to the couple, I'm pretty sure this would be grounds for some sort of annulment/dissolution of the marriage due to a canonical defect.  But if the couple never had problems driving them to seek out that sort of thing, I doubt they or the Church would've second guessed it.  So, in the eyes of God, valid marriage or not? 

"He who sits in the heavens laughs..." (Ps 2.4), while fixing it in his own way. 
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #75 on: November 12, 2013, 02:59:51 AM »
Through our good example and faith, we can pray that the next time Mike tries an alcoholic drink, that it will taste like vomit.

You mean Eucharist?

Really?  

I noticed that Eucharist technically might be the most recent alcoholic drink I would have to point out stupidity of Maria's post.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 03:06:54 AM by Michał Kalina »
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #76 on: November 12, 2013, 03:06:35 AM »
Through our good example and faith, we can pray that the next time Mike tries an alcoholic drink, that it will taste like vomit.

You mean Eucharist?

Really?  

I pointed out that Eucharist technically might be the most recent alcoholic drink I would have to point out stupidity of Maria's post.

Either my previous post is stupid or yours is skirting blasphemy.

However, in the context of my previous statement, such alcoholic imbibing where "Mike tries an alcoholic drink" could not occur during the Divine Liturgy where we are offered and partake of the Sacred Body and Blood of Christ. We simply do not "try the Eucharist."

To reduce the Most Sacred Blood of our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ to a mere alcoholic drink could be considered to be blasphemous, if not outright blasphemy.

« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 03:17:30 AM by Maria »
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #77 on: November 12, 2013, 03:07:42 AM »
To reduce the Most Sacred Blood of our Lord God and Savior to a mere alcoholic drink could be considered to be blasphemous, if not outright blasphemy.

It is an alcoholic drink and it is Body and Blood of Christ.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #78 on: November 12, 2013, 03:36:00 AM »
The opposite of drunkedness is soberness.

When one is sober, one is watchful.

Being a trickster is not a sign of soberness, but is one of recklessness as the devil is a trickster and a shape-shifter.
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #79 on: November 12, 2013, 08:36:08 AM »
To reduce the Most Sacred Blood of our Lord God and Savior to a mere alcoholic drink could be considered to be blasphemous, if not outright blasphemy.

It is an alcoholic drink and it is Body and Blood of Christ.

Ever get drunk off of the Eucharist? Probably not.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #80 on: November 12, 2013, 08:37:32 AM »
The opposite of drunkedness is soberness.

Your comments are rarely sober. Does that mean you post while drunk?
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #81 on: November 12, 2013, 08:38:27 AM »
To reduce the Most Sacred Blood of our Lord God and Savior to a mere alcoholic drink could be considered to be blasphemous, if not outright blasphemy.

It is an alcoholic drink and it is Body and Blood of Christ.

Ever get drunk off of the Eucharist? Probably not.

Me not. On the other hand I've read here some posts by priests who sometimes get a bit dizzy after finishing the cup .

I suppose with cups like that it's not very difficult:

« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 08:39:00 AM by Michał Kalina »
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #82 on: November 12, 2013, 08:38:49 AM »
To reduce the Most Sacred Blood of our Lord God and Savior to a mere alcoholic drink could be considered to be blasphemous, if not outright blasphemy.

It is an alcoholic drink and it is Body and Blood of Christ.

Really, Michal?  The Blood of Christ is an alcoholic drink?



Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #83 on: November 12, 2013, 08:39:38 AM »
To reduce the Most Sacred Blood of our Lord God and Savior to a mere alcoholic drink could be considered to be blasphemous, if not outright blasphemy.

It is an alcoholic drink and it is Body and Blood of Christ.

Really, Michal?  The Blood of Christ is an alcoholic drink?

It does not stop being it after consecration.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 08:40:21 AM by Michał Kalina »
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #84 on: November 12, 2013, 08:41:04 AM »

But how can you so casually call it an "alcoholic drink"? 

It's not even a drink.
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #85 on: November 12, 2013, 08:45:17 AM »

But how can you so casually call it an "alcoholic drink"? 

It's not even a drink.

It's wine mixed with water in proportions like 3:2. It has like 6-10% of alcohol.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #86 on: November 12, 2013, 09:30:52 AM »
It's not even a drink.

"My Body is food indeed, and my Blood is drink indeed"
- John 6:55
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 09:35:35 AM by sheenj »

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #87 on: November 12, 2013, 09:47:12 AM »

But how can you so casually call it an "alcoholic drink"? 

It's not even a drink.

It's wine mixed with water in proportions like 3:2. It has like 6-10% of alcohol.

Your callousness towards the most HOLY EUCHARIST, the very Body and Blood of Christ, amazes me.

Instead of acknowledging the most holiest gift that we receive for the remission of our sins, you have brought it down to the level of a casual alcoholic beverage.



Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #88 on: November 12, 2013, 09:47:48 AM »
It's not even a drink.

"My Body is food indeed, and my Blood is drink indeed"
- John 6:55

I am not a priest.  I don't really "drink" it.   I get a spoonful of it.
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #89 on: November 12, 2013, 09:54:08 AM »
It's not even a drink.

"My Body is food indeed, and my Blood is drink indeed"
- John 6:55

I am not a priest.  I don't really "drink" it.   I get a spoonful of it.

??? The Blood is still "a drink", no matter how you partake of it.

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #90 on: November 12, 2013, 10:02:54 AM »
It's not even a drink.

"My Body is food indeed, and my Blood is drink indeed"
- John 6:55

I am not a priest.  I don't really "drink" it.   I get a spoonful of it.

??? The Blood is still "a drink", no matter how you partake of it.

You are splitting hairs.

I would never refer to the Eucharist as an alcoholic drink, akin to a Shirley Temple or a Bloody Mary.

It amazes me how casual everyone is with something so holy.  Where is the trembling of fear and awe?

Saint John Chrysostom says:

"When you are about to draw near this divine and dreadful Table, with fear and trembling, with a clear conscience, with fasting (of the soul and body) and prayer, you should do so without any commotion, with out stepping on and pushing the person who is next to you.For, this lack of order manifests the great madness and ignorance that exists towards the Holy Mysteries. ..."
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #91 on: November 12, 2013, 10:16:30 AM »
It's not even a drink.

"My Body is food indeed, and my Blood is drink indeed"
- John 6:55

I am not a priest.  I don't really "drink" it.   I get a spoonful of it.

??? The Blood is still "a drink", no matter how you partake of it.

You are splitting hairs.

I would never refer to the Eucharist as an alcoholic drink, akin to a Shirley Temple or a Bloody Mary.

It amazes me how casual everyone is with something so holy.  Where is the trembling of fear and awe?

Saint John Chrysostom says:

"When you are about to draw near this divine and dreadful Table, with fear and trembling, with a clear conscience, with fasting (of the soul and body) and prayer, you should do so without any commotion, with out stepping on and pushing the person who is next to you.For, this lack of order manifests the great madness and ignorance that exists towards the Holy Mysteries. ..."


I actually didn't understand the original comments--it doesn't matter even if it is alcoholic.  Who is getting into the communion line 87 times, trying to get drunk?  This is what I meant by alcohol being the only one of the dreaded three that can be used in moderation.  This is why wine has a place at the altar.  Did Jesus turn the water into Ovaltine?  No.  There's nothing wrong with wine in and of itself.  Somebody's really stretching arguments to a ridiculous degree in order to assert what would have to be an invalid point.
Some of my questions might appear patently stupid to those well-versed in Orthodoxy, but I'm brand new, having no background in the faith.  Please grant me a great deal of patience and consideration as I learn the basics.

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #92 on: November 12, 2013, 10:50:55 AM »
You are splitting hairs.

Probably, but I'm bored. :P

I would never refer to the Eucharist as an alcoholic drink, akin to a Shirley Temple or a Bloody Mary.

Hey, I only took offense to you claiming that the Holy Blood wasn't a drink at all. I gave no opinion on the alcoholic content of the Eucharist.

It amazes me how casual everyone is with something so holy.  Where is the trembling of fear and awe?

Saint John Chrysostom says:

"When you are about to draw near this divine and dreadful Table, with fear and trembling, with a clear conscience, with fasting (of the soul and body) and prayer, you should do so without any commotion, with out stepping on and pushing the person who is next to you.For, this lack of order manifests the great madness and ignorance that exists towards the Holy Mysteries. ..."

Where have I been casual about the Eucharist?
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 11:06:50 AM by sheenj »

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #93 on: November 12, 2013, 11:00:44 AM »

Where have I been casual about the Eucharist?

My comment wasn't aimed at you.  ;)
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #94 on: November 12, 2013, 01:07:38 PM »
Can I remind everyone that this all started with Maria praying to turn Mike's booze into barf?
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #95 on: November 12, 2013, 01:12:31 PM »
Now imagine if Maria had been delegated to handle the emergency situation at Cana.
She hears, upon that water without sound,
A voice that cries, “The tomb in Palestine
Is not the porch of spirits lingering.
It is the grave of Jesus, where he lay.”
We live in an old chaos of the sun,
Or old dependency of day and night,
Or island solitude, unsponsored, free,
Of that wide water, inescapable.

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #96 on: November 12, 2013, 01:21:54 PM »
Can I remind everyone that this all started with Maria praying to turn Mike's booze into barf?

Which stemmed from Michal condoning drunkenness.

« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 01:22:35 PM by LizaSymonenko »
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #97 on: November 12, 2013, 01:22:35 PM »
Now imagine if Maria had been delegated to handle the emergency situation at Cana.

I literally started to shiver.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #98 on: November 12, 2013, 01:27:59 PM »
Just wait until the GMO Eucharist comes out, Maria would flip.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #99 on: November 12, 2013, 01:29:55 PM »
Can I remind everyone that this all started with Maria praying to turn Mike's booze into barf?

Dude, I have not had booze for several weeks.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #100 on: November 12, 2013, 01:31:18 PM »
Can I remind everyone that this all started with Maria praying to turn Mike's booze into barf?

Dude, I have not had booze for several weeks.
I haven't had booze in over a year wanna fight about it?
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #101 on: November 12, 2013, 01:41:55 PM »
Can I remind everyone that this all started with Maria praying to turn Mike's booze into barf?

Dude, I have not had booze for several weeks.
I haven't had booze in over a year wanna fight about it?
I haven't had booze in several hours......

PP
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #102 on: November 12, 2013, 01:56:31 PM »
It's not even a drink.

"My Body is food indeed, and my Blood is drink indeed"
- John 6:55

I am not a priest.  I don't really "drink" it.   I get a spoonful of it.

??? The Blood is still "a drink", no matter how you partake of it.

You are splitting hairs.

I would never refer to the Eucharist as an alcoholic drink, akin to a Shirley Temple or a Bloody Mary.

It amazes me how casual everyone is with something so holy.  Where is the trembling of fear and awe?
Do you think, Liza, that maybe your problem is not with what Mike said, but with your interpretation of what Mike said?
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #103 on: November 12, 2013, 02:01:44 PM »
Please enjoy the following Irish drinking songs:

Beer, Beer, Beer

The Moonshiner

Mountain Dew

Water is Alright in Tay
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 02:01:54 PM by Iconodule »
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #104 on: November 12, 2013, 02:03:36 PM »
It's not even a drink.

"My Body is food indeed, and my Blood is drink indeed"
- John 6:55

I am not a priest.  I don't really "drink" it.   I get a spoonful of it.

??? The Blood is still "a drink", no matter how you partake of it.

You are splitting hairs.

I would never refer to the Eucharist as an alcoholic drink, akin to a Shirley Temple or a Bloody Mary.

It amazes me how casual everyone is with something so holy.  Where is the trembling of fear and awe?
Do you think, Liza, that maybe your problem is not with what Mike said, but with your interpretation of what Mike said?

That is most assuredly a possibility I will acknowledge, as Michal often has difficulty expressing himself in English.  I will accept that I may be misunderstanding him, yet, he's made little effort in making his thought any clearer, but, only continues to joke about it.

The jovial banter pertaining to the Eucharist is, in my opinion, irreverent to God and His gift to us.

We are instructed to be in awe of it, not to joke about GMOs and alcoholic contents of the Blood of Christ.

God should never be the center of any jokes.

I find it shameful when He is, and I find it even sadder when people accept it and think it's okay.


 
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #105 on: November 12, 2013, 02:06:37 PM »
Please enjoy the following Irish drinking songs:

Beer, Beer, Beer

The Moonshiner

Mountain Dew

Water is Alright in Tay

I can share loads of Ukie songs like that. Wonder if that helps.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #106 on: November 12, 2013, 02:07:53 PM »
Can I remind everyone that this all started with Maria praying to turn Mike's booze into barf?

Which stemmed from Michal condoning drunkenness.

Where?

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #107 on: November 12, 2013, 02:22:16 PM »

You should never let anything alter your mind.

I disagree. Depends how, when and why.

So, if the how, when and why fit the bill, it is okay to be drunk, and have your mind altered.  No?

Or am I simply misunderstanding what he meant to say?

I seem to do that a lot.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #108 on: November 12, 2013, 02:26:24 PM »

You should never let anything alter your mind.

I disagree. Depends how, when and why.

So, if the how, when and why fit the bill, it is okay to be drunk, and have your mind altered.  No?

No fasting day. No feast to attend church next day. No job/school/driving/other responsibilities that would require you to be sober. No children that would need your full attention.

I think it's pretty much all.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #109 on: November 12, 2013, 02:43:09 PM »
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 02:44:40 PM by Alpo »
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #110 on: November 12, 2013, 02:44:30 PM »

No fasting day. No feast to attend church next day. No job/school/driving/other responsibilities that would require you to be sober. No children that would need your full attention.

I think it's pretty much all.

So, being drunk and senseless is okay?

I don't think so.

Not under any circumstances.

What if you are lying there in a stupefied state, unable to comprehend anything, and the place you are lying in catches fire.

You are now stuck, and dead.  Why?  Because you were too drunk to get up and out, even when the sirens were ringing and the lights were flashing....

Nonsense.

What if someone comes to you for help, and you are unable to move and help them.

What if a demon comes to you, while you are in this state, and you are not able to fend him off.  What then?
 
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 02:45:08 PM by LizaSymonenko »
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #111 on: November 12, 2013, 02:45:22 PM »
I have created a monster. I wonder what I could do to get this thread locked.
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #112 on: November 12, 2013, 02:47:18 PM »
I have created a monster. I wonder what I could do to get this thread locked.

:)  Sorry, Alpo.

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #113 on: November 12, 2013, 02:48:37 PM »

No fasting day. No feast to attend church next day. No job/school/driving/other responsibilities that would require you to be sober. No children that would need your full attention.

I think it's pretty much all.

So, being drunk and senseless is okay?

I don't think so.

Not under any circumstances.

What if you are lying there in a stupefied state, unable to comprehend anything, and the place you are lying in catches fire.

You are now stuck, and dead.  Why?  Because you were too drunk to get up and out, even when the sirens were ringing and the lights were flashing....

Nonsense.

What if someone comes to you for help, and you are unable to move and help them.

What if a demon comes to you, while you are in this state, and you are not able to fend him off.  What then?
 


I am saying being drunk is OK unless you have some responsibilities to take care for.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 02:48:52 PM by Michał Kalina »
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #114 on: November 12, 2013, 02:50:09 PM »

No fasting day. No feast to attend church next day. No job/school/driving/other responsibilities that would require you to be sober. No children that would need your full attention.

I think it's pretty much all.

So, being drunk and senseless is okay?

I don't think so.

Not under any circumstances.

What if you are lying there in a stupefied state, unable to comprehend anything, and the place you are lying in catches fire.

You are now stuck, and dead.  Why?  Because you were too drunk to get up and out, even when the sirens were ringing and the lights were flashing....

Nonsense.

What if someone comes to you for help, and you are unable to move and help them.

What if a demon comes to you, while you are in this state, and you are not able to fend him off.  What then?
 


I am saying being drunk is OK unless you have some responsibilities to take care for.

Explain just how it is okay to be lost to the world, and not in control of your words or actions?
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 02:52:28 PM by LizaSymonenko »
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #115 on: November 12, 2013, 02:50:21 PM »
I have created a monster. I wonder what I could do to get this thread locked.

:)  Sorry, Alpo.



But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #116 on: November 12, 2013, 02:50:57 PM »

No fasting day. No feast to attend church next day. No job/school/driving/other responsibilities that would require you to be sober. No children that would need your full attention.

I think it's pretty much all.

So, being drunk and senseless is okay?

I don't think so.

Not under any circumstances.

What if you are lying there in a stupefied state, unable to comprehend anything, and the place you are lying in catches fire.

You are now stuck, and dead.  Why?  Because you were too drunk to get up and out, even when the sirens were ringing and the lights were flashing....

Nonsense.

What if someone comes to you for help, and you are unable to move and help them.

What if a demon comes to you, while you are in this state, and you are not able to fend him off.  What then?
 


But drinking is the joy of Rus'!
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #117 on: November 12, 2013, 02:53:32 PM »

No fasting day. No feast to attend church next day. No job/school/driving/other responsibilities that would require you to be sober. No children that would need your full attention.

I think it's pretty much all.

So, being drunk and senseless is okay?

I don't think so.

Not under any circumstances.

What if you are lying there in a stupefied state, unable to comprehend anything, and the place you are lying in catches fire.

You are now stuck, and dead.  Why?  Because you were too drunk to get up and out, even when the sirens were ringing and the lights were flashing....

Nonsense.

What if someone comes to you for help, and you are unable to move and help them.

What if a demon comes to you, while you are in this state, and you are not able to fend him off.  What then?
 


But drinking is the joy of Rus'!

Just because Russians, or Ukrainians, or Americans, or Poles, or anyone does it, doesn't mean it is okay.

Drinking in MODERATION is okay.  Getting DRUNK is not.

There is a marked difference.
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #118 on: November 12, 2013, 02:53:51 PM »
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #119 on: November 12, 2013, 02:56:16 PM »
Drinking in MODERATION is okay.  Getting DRUNK is not.

There is a marked difference.


I have an uncle. He can drink 2.5 l of vodka one evening and be completely sober next day (while me or my father are dying).

How do you describe "moderation"?
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #120 on: November 12, 2013, 02:57:09 PM »

Moderation, is stopping before you get drunk.
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #121 on: November 12, 2013, 03:00:12 PM »

So, being drunk and senseless is okay?

I don't think so.

Not under any circumstances.


I don't think Michal said anything about being senseless. Is it impossible to be drunk without being senseless?

What if you are lying there in a stupefied state, unable to comprehend anything, and the place you are lying in catches fire.

You are now stuck, and dead.  Why?  Because you were too drunk to get up and out, even when the sirens were ringing and the lights were flashing....

Nonsense.

What if someone comes to you for help, and you are unable to move and help them.

What if a demon comes to you, while you are in this state, and you are not able to fend him off.  What then?

Then again, you could say the same thing about sleeping, or being fatigued after exercising, or any number of things.

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #122 on: November 12, 2013, 03:02:37 PM »

Fatigued is one thing...being drunk is another.

No matter how fatigued or sleepy you are, I think you will manage to rouse yourself when needed.

Forget it.

If you all wish to be drunk, enjoy.

May God keep you safe while you lie there senseless.
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #123 on: November 12, 2013, 03:03:05 PM »
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #124 on: November 12, 2013, 03:05:08 PM »
Moderation, is stopping before you get drunk.

I don't think Michal is stopping anyone from drinking. Or any other Mods for that matter.
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #125 on: November 12, 2013, 03:14:51 PM »

Fatigued is one thing...being drunk is another.

No matter how fatigued or sleepy you are, I think you will manage to rouse yourself when needed.


Are you sure? I've known some people who could sleep through a nuclear war. I've also had days, where if I hadn't exercised in a while, I couldn't get up out of bed for a couple of hours.

Forget it.

If you all wish to be drunk, enjoy.

May God keep you safe while you lie there senseless.


Again, does being drunk automatically equal being senseless?

I've only had two alcoholic drinks my entire life so I wouldn't know.  ;)

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #126 on: November 12, 2013, 03:15:59 PM »

I've never been drunk, but, I have seen many drunk individuals.

If they are not able to walk a straight line, they are pretty senseless.
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #127 on: November 12, 2013, 03:17:06 PM »
I've never been drunk, but, I have seen many drunk individuals.

If they are not able to walk a straight line, they are pretty senseless.

One can be drunk without being an idiot. Nobody forces anyone to drink that much.
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #128 on: November 12, 2013, 03:18:27 PM »

Just because Russians, or Ukrainians, or Americans, or Poles, or anyone does it, doesn't mean it is okay.

Drinking in MODERATION is okay.  Getting DRUNK is not.

There is a marked difference.


I agree with Liza.

Condoning DRUNKENNESS is also not okay.
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #129 on: November 12, 2013, 03:21:03 PM »
I've never been drunk, but, I have seen many drunk individuals.

If they are not able to walk a straight line, they are pretty senseless.

One can be drunk without being an idiot. Nobody forces anyone to drink that much.

Nobody forces, the person chooses.  Doesn't mean it is okay.

For clarification purposes via dictionary.com

drunk  [druhngk]
adjective
1. being in a temporary state in which one's physical and mental faculties are impaired by an excess of alcoholic drink; intoxicated: The wine made him drunk.
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #130 on: November 12, 2013, 03:21:26 PM »
I don't think Michal is stopping anyone from drinking.

Just visit me in Warsaw. I won't let you.

If they are not able to walk a straight line, they are pretty senseless.

I can't agree.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #131 on: November 12, 2013, 03:22:30 PM »

If they are not able to walk a straight line, they are pretty senseless.

I can't agree.

Of course not.
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #132 on: November 12, 2013, 03:23:35 PM »
Fatigued is one thing...being drunk is another.

No matter how fatigued or sleepy you are, I think you will manage to rouse yourself when needed.

Are you sure? I've known some people who could sleep through a nuclear war.  

I fall into that category; it's well adapted to being very alert both early and late (I'm both a "morning person" and a "night person"), but poorly adapted to, say, having small infants (who could be 24" from my head and screaming and I couldn't wake up).
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #133 on: November 12, 2013, 03:23:56 PM »
I don't think Michal is stopping anyone from drinking.

Just visit me in Warsaw. I won't let you.

Are you sure you're not adopted? You don't sound like a proper Eastern European. Come over here and we'll teach you how a genuine Orthodox Christian drinks.
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #134 on: November 12, 2013, 03:28:49 PM »
How do you describe "moderation"?

IMO one of the 2 or 3 most difficult questions in the spiritual journey, especially since it's judged on a sliding scale (unique to each person and situation).  Moderation in, say, sexual desire is different for single and married, and different for married person now than it was before marriage.  Same goes for anger, consumption (esp. food & drink), etc.  We should all strive earnestly in our lives to get a reasonable grip on what "moderation" is for us (with the assistance of spiritual fathers, close relatives, sponsors, etc.).
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #135 on: November 12, 2013, 04:05:14 PM »
It is really quite easy to see if you have crossed the line where consumption of alcohol becomes a sin, and the same applies to many other pleasures like overindulgence in food or entertainment.  Unlike many other indulgences, however, drugs and alcohol can have immediate fatal consequences and particular damaging effects on the soul as well as on family and other relationships.  In times of need or great sorrow, do we attempt to console ourselves through alcohol or other indulgences rather than turning to God in prayer and seeking consolation from Him?  Do we consume a drink or two in a spirit of moderation and watchfulness and are then able to fulfill our responsibilities and say our prayers before sleep with attention?  Or, does one drink lead to another until we lose possession of our faculties?  Do we find that after consuming a certain amount of alcohol we become more susceptible to temptations or more likely to sin carnally or through foolish and idle talk?  Have we become more susceptible to anger or violence?  Is our speech slurred and are we unable to read the Scriptures or spiritual things profitably?  Can we pray from the heart?  Are we suddenly only interested in viewing immoral and carnal entertainment?  Does this lead to sin?   

As St. John Chrysostom says, it is not alcohol that leads to drunkenness but lack of moderation.  We have to be sober and watchful in all of our conduct so that we can see at what point such things may be preventing spiritual progress in overcoming the passions and drawing near to God.  It is important to remember that "All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify (1 Cor 10:23)."

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #136 on: November 12, 2013, 04:12:01 PM »
It is really quite easy to see if you have crossed the line where consumption of alcohol becomes a sin, and the same applies to many other pleasures like overindulgence in food or entertainment.  Unlike many other indulgences, however, drugs and alcohol can have immediate fatal consequences and particular damaging effects on the soul as well as on family and other relationships.  In times of need or great sorrow, do we attempt to console ourselves through alcohol or other indulgences rather than turning to God in prayer and seeking consolation from Him?  Do we consume a drink or two in a spirit of moderation and watchfulness and are then able to fulfill our responsibilities and say our prayers before sleep with attention?  Or, does one drink lead to another until we lose possession of our faculties?  Do we find that after consuming a certain amount of alcohol we become more susceptible to temptations or more likely to sin carnally or through foolish and idle talk?  Have we become more susceptible to anger or violence?  Is our speech slurred and are we unable to read the Scriptures or spiritual things profitably?  Can we pray from the heart?  Are we suddenly only interested in viewing immoral and carnal entertainment?  Does this lead to sin?   

As St. John Chrysostom says, it is not alcohol that leads to drunkenness but lack of moderation.  We have to be sober and watchful in all of our conduct so that we can see at what point such things may be preventing spiritual progress in overcoming the passions and drawing near to God.  It is important to remember that "All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify (1 Cor 10:23)."

Amen. Drunkenness has caused much pain and loss, we felt it firsthand in my family when I was a boy and a drunk driver killed my older brother. The pain and loss surrounded my parents the rest of their lives - it did not define them, but it was never absent.

At the parish back in the old days, many, many families were broken apart by an alcoholic mom or dad. So St. John Chrysostom remains on point as ever in the 21st century.

A little drink is not a bad thing at all, excess of almost anything in life - including drinking - is never a good thing.

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #137 on: November 12, 2013, 04:17:35 PM »
Sorry Poddy but this means nothing.

I remember there was a conflict within some church organisation I used to be a part of. We had a gathering that was supposed to resolve our differences and one side asked a bishop to give lecture. Te bishop gave a lecture, well versed in patristics etc. but it helped nothing. Each side picked up those arguments from his speech that fit their arguments and it was the end. If you want to make a statement on one topic, make a statement about the topic clearly...
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 04:18:54 PM by Michał Kalina »
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #138 on: November 12, 2013, 04:22:51 PM »
Sorry Poddy but this means nothing.

I remember there was a conflict within some church organisation I used to be a part of. We had a gathering that was supposed to resolve our differences and one side asked a bishop to give lecture. Te bishop gave a lecture, well versed in patristics etc. but it helped nothing. Each side picked up those arguments from his speech that fit their arguments and it was the end. If you want to make a statement on one topic, make a statement about the topic clearly...

He just told you he lost his brother to a drunk driver, and you say it means nothing?

Sheesh.

He clearly drew a connection between a person who was drunk and an ultimate tragedy.

podkarpatska, I am sorry for your loss, and the pain and void your family has had to live with, because someone didn't realize the impact of being drunk and driving.


Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #139 on: November 12, 2013, 04:25:56 PM »
I lost my twin brother due to nothing. He lived like a week and died when we were 8 days old. I visited his grave last Sunday. Sorry but these emotional arguments won't work on me.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #140 on: November 12, 2013, 04:27:59 PM »

podkarpatska wasn't being emotional.  He was merely explaining some of the ramifications of being drunk.

I am sorry for your loss, as well.

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #141 on: November 12, 2013, 04:43:26 PM »
I lost my twin brother due to nothing. He lived like a week and died when we were 8 days old. I visited his grave last Sunday. Sorry but these emotional arguments won't work on me.

I wasn't being emotional. I am not a teetotaler, nor were my parents or most other members of my family. I was, however, personalizing the abstract argument raised by jah and Fr. George. Moral and behavioral choices in life come with consequences. Do I take it from your response to my post that you take issue with what they posted as well?

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #142 on: November 12, 2013, 05:32:08 PM »
While moderation is a key principle to be applied across all aspects of our life, the lack thereof (either binge or absence) does not affect others (i.e. outside of the person committing the actions directly) equally.  Over-eating and under-eating both affect the health of an individual and can certainly create a difficult situation for friends and family, but abuse of alcohol can have much more serious ramifications for others (ranging from the mild - public scorn - to the major - cirrhosis, DUI / involuntary manslaughter while driving, physical and emotional abuse in the home, etc. which can all happen with non-alcoholics but occur with greater frequency with alcohol abusers).  All sin is harmful to the self, but the harmfulness to others ranges widely, which is one reason why canonical penalties vary even though the direct spiritual consequences to the sinner are straight-forward across the board (i.e. all sin separates us from God).

So the over-sensitivity to issues of drunkenness is warranted, IMO, because of the terrible consequences and quick escalation of harm to others.  Same goes for drug use.  It's one of those areas where heightened awareness is better than dulled responses.  But even in this, moderation is required.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #143 on: November 12, 2013, 05:37:29 PM »
I lost my twin brother due to nothing. He lived like a week and died when we were 8 days old. I visited his grave last Sunday. Sorry but these emotional arguments won't work on me.

For many people concrete examples of direct consequences to the non-involved parties (i.e. not the sinner him/herself) assist in driving home the deeper spiritual point: sin isn't just about us, just as salvation isn't a solitary exercise.  "Drunkenness is bad; an example is that a drunk driver killed my brother" is just as valid a point as, "Proclaiming sin in the marketplace is bad; an example is that a licentious man led my holy and innocent brother into spiritual sin and death."  Yes, there are individualistic considerations to make (the person killed in the drunk driving accident may or may not be granted a place in the Eternal Kingdom since we don't know his own spiritual condition, just as the boy led astray by the sinner may or may not have full culpability - a la Eve's temptation), but in the end the message is to the sinner and not the affected: if you avoid doing that which is contrary to God's plan, there is less chance of your harming others by your own actions.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 05:38:31 PM by Fr. George »
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #144 on: November 12, 2013, 06:21:50 PM »
Mike,

Since when was something "not ok" so long as you have "responsibilities".  We all have responsibilities, even to our own well-being.  Furthermore, the idea of "laziness" as being fine is not something Christ condoned.  Christ always strived that we act.  Just sitting and doing nothing at all but breathe is a sin in and of itself.  Consider the parable of the talents.  The master condemned the man who hid the talent and not building on it.  Christianity is not about avoiding "abominations" or "wrong actions", but also avoiding "inaction".  "My Father is working" Christ said.  We also must work.  There is no room for laziness.

Now, perhaps you might think rest is "laziness" (anticipating an argument in my head).  But a day of rest is a day to recharge, to day to sanctify.  It's an "active" side of rest, not a "lazy rest".

Therefore, irregardless of whatever responsibilities one has, drunkenness is wrong.  There's no getting around that or bypassing it.  To be drunk, to incapacitate yourself, is to not work on the talent given to you by your heavenly master, but it does hurt you (and medically speaking, getting drunk does kill brain cells and perhaps liver cells depending on the person) and it does promote laziness if not inhibitions of other sorts.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #145 on: November 12, 2013, 06:31:36 PM »
I lost my twin brother due to nothing. He lived like a week and died when we were 8 days old. I visited his grave last Sunday. Sorry but these emotional arguments won't work on me.

For many people concrete examples of direct consequences to the non-involved parties (i.e. not the sinner him/herself) assist in driving home the deeper spiritual point: sin isn't just about us, just as salvation isn't a solitary exercise.  "Drunkenness is bad; an example is that a drunk driver killed my brother" is just as valid a point as, "Proclaiming sin in the marketplace is bad; an example is that a licentious man led my holy and innocent brother into spiritual sin and death."  Yes, there are individualistic considerations to make (the person killed in the drunk driving accident may or may not be granted a place in the Eternal Kingdom since we don't know his own spiritual condition, just as the boy led astray by the sinner may or may not have full culpability - a la Eve's temptation), but in the end the message is to the sinner and not the affected: if you avoid doing that which is contrary to God's plan, there is less chance of your harming others by your own actions.

@*E$&#(&$(#&$()#&$#)@#&@

My brother did not die due to sins of anyone. He just had unfinished intestines.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #146 on: November 12, 2013, 06:40:06 PM »

He wasn't talking about your brother.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #147 on: November 12, 2013, 07:01:48 PM »
Mike,

Since when was something "not ok" so long as you have "responsibilities".  We all have responsibilities, even to our own well-being.  Furthermore, the idea of "laziness" as being fine is not something Christ condoned.  Christ always strived that we act.  Just sitting and doing nothing at all but breathe is a sin in and of itself.  Consider the parable of the talents.  The master condemned the man who hid the talent and not building on it.  Christianity is not about avoiding "abominations" or "wrong actions", but also avoiding "inaction".  "My Father is working" Christ said.  We also must work.  There is no room for laziness.

Now, perhaps you might think rest is "laziness" (anticipating an argument in my head).  But a day of rest is a day to recharge, to day to sanctify.  It's an "active" side of rest, not a "lazy rest".

Therefore, irregardless of whatever responsibilities one has, drunkenness is wrong.  There's no getting around that or bypassing it.  To be drunk, to incapacitate yourself, is to not work on the talent given to you by your heavenly master, but it does hurt you (and medically speaking, getting drunk does kill brain cells and perhaps liver cells depending on the person) and it does promote laziness if not inhibitions of other sorts.
+100

Alcoholism (the incapacity to moderate one's drinking) and drug abuse are slow forms of suicide.
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #148 on: November 12, 2013, 07:04:57 PM »


A GO priest once told me why we focus on the New Testament, because the Old Testament simply shows that we are all guilty of sin requiring the New Testament for salvation. The worst thing any Christian can do is to act above anothers sin, that is where we lose our ability to be forgiven our own sins.

That is why our prayer at Communion says,
Quote
I believe, O Lord, and I confess that Thou art truly the Christ, the Son of the Living God, who didst come into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. And I believe that this is truly Thine own immaculate Body, and that this is Thine own precious Blood. Wherefore I pray thee, have mercy upon me and forgive my transgressions both voluntary and involuntary, of word and of deed, of knowledge and of ignorance; and make me worthy to partake without condemnation of Thine immaculate Mysteries, unto remission of my sins and unto life everlasting. Amen.

A Pocket Prayer Book for Orthodox Christians [the red book], Antiochian Christian Archdiocese, Englewood, NJ, 2000, p. 98.

Yes, exactly, and hence my name , and that was part of my argument in a thread devoted to that subject which is here. http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,52480.msg954424.html#msg954424
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #149 on: November 12, 2013, 07:08:54 PM »
Mike,

Since when was something "not ok" so long as you have "responsibilities".  We all have responsibilities, even to our own well-being.  Furthermore, the idea of "laziness" as being fine is not something Christ condoned.  Christ always strived that we act.  Just sitting and doing nothing at all but breathe is a sin in and of itself.  Consider the parable of the talents.  The master condemned the man who hid the talent and not building on it.  Christianity is not about avoiding "abominations" or "wrong actions", but also avoiding "inaction".  "My Father is working" Christ said.  We also must work.  There is no room for laziness.

Now, perhaps you might think rest is "laziness" (anticipating an argument in my head).  But a day of rest is a day to recharge, to day to sanctify.  It's an "active" side of rest, not a "lazy rest".

Therefore, irregardless of whatever responsibilities one has, drunkenness is wrong.  There's no getting around that or bypassing it.  To be drunk, to incapacitate yourself, is to not work on the talent given to you by your heavenly master, but it does hurt you (and medically speaking, getting drunk does kill brain cells and perhaps liver cells depending on the person) and it does promote laziness if not inhibitions of other sorts.
+100

Alcoholism (the incapacity to moderate one's drinking) and drug abuse are slow forms of suicide.

I have not smoked pot for almost 2 years. Does anyone need help in Warsaw area?
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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #150 on: November 12, 2013, 07:14:16 PM »
I have not smoked pot for almost 2 years. Does anyone need help in Warsaw area?

Help with what in particular?  I'm certain there are people in Warsaw who need help.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #151 on: November 12, 2013, 07:56:58 PM »
 
The thing I was thinking is that Jesus went to everyone who asked of him, and told the disciples anyone who is not against us is with us (Mk 9:40),  and what all the people had in common who followed him was sin, so it is not unusual that we should find that here, what is needed is acceptance that we are all sinners who need forgiveness, and as we forgive so will we be forgiven.

 It just seems that sometimes people (Me included), act as if they are righteous and are best suited to help the sinners, which in my book it says we are all sinners, and that if you are righteous then your sin will remain, because there are none who do good but God.

 Preachers are subject as well, Jesus said to go out and spread the good news of his offer to us all, not that we should now think we are sinless and act as if we are above others who do things that we do not, because there are other sins that we do , that may be looked upon by this world as no big deal, but are counted equally as the murderer or thief by the one who matters, God.

All sin is a form of suicide. And since we are all sinners we all have taken part in killing ourselves at one time or another.

 There is not one who does good , except God (Lk 18:19). We are all evil (Mt 12:34,7:11,Lk 11:13), so what we need is to help others as they need our help, and that may be many things, not just preaching, because it is not enough to just tell them and not lift a finger,(Lord knows I am guilty of this too), but even here on the net we can try and guide in a way that will help.

All we can do is try a little.

« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 08:22:26 PM by Sinful Hypocrite »
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #152 on: November 12, 2013, 09:32:30 PM »
I am saying being drunk is OK unless you have some responsibilities to take care for.
In common parlance American English speakers often bracket inebriation into three levels:
 
1. Tipsy - Affected by the booze, but pretty much in control.
2. Drunk - Most control is lost.
3. Wasted - Very little control, risk of blacking out, etc.

« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 09:34:26 PM by NicholasMyra »
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #153 on: November 12, 2013, 09:41:51 PM »
NicholasMyra,

Where does "slizzard" fall on that scale?
The whole forum is Mor. We're emanations of his godlike mind.

Actually, Mor's face shineth like the Sun.

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #154 on: November 12, 2013, 09:46:53 PM »
I am saying being drunk is OK unless you have some responsibilities to take care for.
In common parlance American English speakers often bracket inebriation into three levels:
 
1. Tipsy - Affected by the booze, but pretty much in control.
2. Drunk - Most control is lost.
3. Wasted - Very little control, risk of blacking out, etc.



However, those falling under 1-3 above would be arrested for a DUI offense if they were stopped.
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline minasoliman

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #155 on: November 12, 2013, 10:07:58 PM »
NicholasMyra,

Where does "slizzard" fall on that scale?

When you're no longer feeling like a G6
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #156 on: November 12, 2013, 10:16:28 PM »
NicholasMyra,

Where does "slizzard" fall on that scale?

When you're no longer feeling like a G6

What is a G6?
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline minasoliman

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #157 on: November 12, 2013, 10:23:39 PM »
NicholasMyra,

Where does "slizzard" fall on that scale?

When you're no longer feeling like a G6

What is a G6?

lol…it's a car…i'm making an inside joke that references a song  :)
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #158 on: November 12, 2013, 10:39:26 PM »
Calling that a song is overly generous, Mina.  It was an annoying noise. 
The whole forum is Mor. We're emanations of his godlike mind.

Actually, Mor's face shineth like the Sun.

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #159 on: November 12, 2013, 10:40:50 PM »
Calling that a song is overly generous, Mina.  It was an annoying noise. 
Not as annoying as the stereotype it represents  :P (and the state that it's associated with)
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 10:41:29 PM by minasoliman »
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #160 on: November 12, 2013, 10:46:23 PM »
I've only finished stage 3 once in my life. I don't know whether to be happy or let down  :police:
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #161 on: November 12, 2013, 10:58:30 PM »
NicholasMyra,

Where does "slizzard" fall on that scale?

When you're no longer feeling like a G6
Mina you beat me
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #162 on: November 12, 2013, 10:59:08 PM »
I am saying being drunk is OK unless you have some responsibilities to take care for.
In common parlance American English speakers often bracket inebriation into three levels:
 
1. Tipsy - Affected by the booze, but pretty much in control.
2. Drunk - Most control is lost.
3. Wasted - Very little control, risk of blacking out, etc.



However, those falling under 1-3 above would be arrested for a DUI offense if they were stopped.
As would those who take a bunch of nyquil.
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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #163 on: November 13, 2013, 12:17:02 AM »
lol…it's a car…i'm making an inside joke that references a song  :)


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« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 12:40:39 AM by LizaSymonenko »
Quote from: Pope Francis
Thank God he said I was a politician because Aristotle defined the human person as 'Animal politicus.' So at least I am a human person.

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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #164 on: November 13, 2013, 01:22:55 AM »
lol…it's a car…i'm making an inside joke that references a song  :)


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All this time, I actually thought it was some sort of "fly" sports car…now it all makes sense  :P
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Offline Maria

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #165 on: November 13, 2013, 01:56:53 AM »
lol…it's a car…i'm making an inside joke that references a song  :)


I modified the width of the image for ease of viewing. - LS
All this time, I actually thought it was some sort of "fly" sports car…now it all makes sense  :P

I would like to have a little G6.
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Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
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Offline hecma925

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #166 on: November 13, 2013, 07:56:42 AM »
A G6 car is not even that nice to be singing about.
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #167 on: November 13, 2013, 04:37:49 PM »
A G6 car is not even that nice to be singing about.
Shows how much I know about cars  ;) :P
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Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #168 on: November 13, 2013, 04:56:59 PM »
And I was thinking of the GTO song, to which Mor's previous comment could also be applied.  I don't even know this other song.
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #169 on: November 13, 2013, 05:34:16 PM »
And I was thinking of the GTO song, to which Mor's previous comment could also be applied.  I don't even know this other song.

I'm much more pedestrian, I too thought of the Pontiac G-6.

Offline Fr. George

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #170 on: November 13, 2013, 05:47:56 PM »
He wasn't talking about your brother. 

Correct!  My comment had nothing to do with his brother.

I have not smoked pot for almost 2 years. Does anyone need help in Warsaw area?

Help with what in particular?  I'm certain there are people in Warsaw who need help.

Maybe, "Help quitting?"

I don't typically presume to speak for Mor
You can presume to speak for Mor.   

Offline sprtslvr1973

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #171 on: March 29, 2014, 06:06:57 AM »
I sometimes wish I heard a little more warning against intoxication; I am glad however, that the Orthodox Christian Church does not focus on any one sin to the point of minimizing others.
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