Author Topic: Drunkenness  (Read 6763 times)

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Offline Alpo

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Drunkenness
« on: November 10, 2013, 03:58:50 PM »
Have you ever a) heard a sermon about drunkenness b) been scolded by a priest for drinking too much c) confessed drinking too much?
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
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Offline Dominika

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2013, 04:02:37 PM »
a) no
b) a bit, 3 times
c) yes
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Offline biro

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2013, 04:15:47 PM »
I've heard it mentioned in passing in a couple sermons. To the other two questions, yes and yes.
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Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2013, 04:17:26 PM »
Have you ever a) heard a sermon about drunkenness b) been scolded by a priest for drinking too much c) confessed drinking too much?

On 1, no, I never have.  Churches of all denominations seem to avoid this subject like the plague, and drugs are in the same category.  They won't preach or even comment on this subject, though I have no idea--nor even a good guess--as to why this is.  Drugs and alcohol have nearly overtaken our entire society, speaking with reference to america--I don't know how bad it is in other countries, although it got quite as bad as it was in Russia right before the revolution, and throughout Soviet rule.  It's generally used to subdue the population, and I see our government doing the same thing.  It failed in the Soviet Union and I believe it will fail here.

On 2 and 3, my answer is also 'no.'  I'm not a teetotaler, but I'll only have 2-3 wine coolers per year.  My family on my father's side was nearly all alcoholics, and I think growing up watching every one of my uncles staggering around with blood-shot eyes kinda pushed me over to the non-drinking side of the fence.  I've heard that when people grow up around drunks or people who use drugs--relatives are always drunk or high--the children grow up either doing the same thing or they go to the other extreme, abstaining entirely, much to the delight of Carrie Nation's ghost.  I have no problem being around a bunch of people having a beer or two at a barbecue, but to this day, I can't be around drunks or hang out in bars.  I used to live in State College, and in that area, you didn't have to venture out to find drunks or addicts.  They came and found you.  No idea how I lasted four years in that area.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 04:20:24 PM by newtoorthodoxy »
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2013, 04:20:33 PM »
I heard oftentimes injunctions against drunkedness in Romania. Not i the US.
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Offline mike

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2013, 05:01:32 PM »
c) yes
a) probably
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Offline Maria

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2013, 05:04:02 PM »
a) no
b) no - but I have heard others talk about the sermon Father gave them in the confessional for partying and being a bad example to those around them. They joked because Father asked who their drinking buddies were, and when the drinking buddies went to confession, they got the same sermon.
c) no
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 05:06:29 PM by Maria »
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Offline mike

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2013, 05:07:42 PM »
They joked because Father asked who their drinking buddies were,

You seem to witness many confession abuses.
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Offline Maria

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2013, 05:09:55 PM »
They joked because Father asked who their drinking buddies were,

You seem to witness many confession abuses.

The joke was that Father knew who their drinking buddies were as they often asked him over for a drink.
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2013, 05:12:32 PM »
By the way, I did a search of "confession abuses" and here are the results:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?action=search2

The only three results were your post and my two responses to your post.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 05:14:06 PM by Maria »
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2013, 06:40:17 PM »
Have you ever a) heard a sermon about drunkenness b) been scolded by a priest for drinking too much c) confessed drinking too much?

a) Plenty of times
b) I've never been scolded for drinking too much.  I've been scolded just for holding someone else's drink. 
c) N/a
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Offline katherine 2001

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2013, 08:38:16 PM »
I've heard sermons about drunkenness and I've had priests remind people about not drinking to access at the breaking of the fast after the Paschal liturgy (which by the way was needed, people were definitely getting drunk).  However, I do not drink, so I can honestly answer no to the other questions (I have no problem with other people drinking, but both of my parents were alcoholics and both my brothers have struggled with it to.  Thank goodness I don't like alcohol, so it's not a temptation for me.  I will take the wine right after communion, but other than that I don't drink (and I think I only drink it then because I am so thirsty).

Offline Agabus

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2013, 09:06:27 PM »
A). many times, though not in an Orthodox church.

B). Yes.

C). Every time.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2013, 09:15:37 PM »
1) Yes, but not directly. My Priest never gave a sermon solely dedicated to drunkenness and/or alcoholism, but he has given sermons about addiction and mentioned alcoholism in the sermon.

2) No, I'm underage and don't drink (although I occasionally smoke cigars)

3) No

On a related note, something that bothers me very much in the Orthodox Church is that drunkenness and alcoholism seems to be accepted or at the very best ignored and swept under the rug. Yet, marijuana is horribly stigmatized and people who smoke it are stereotyped as being dumb stoners. Alcohol and being drunk is MUCH worse than smoking marijuana and being high from it. For starters, I've NEVER seen a pothead get violent or angry while under the influence of marijuana--most of them just seem tired and passed out afterward--whereas I've seen several alcoholics who become violent and abuse their wives when they drink. But, of course, alcohol is accepted as okay but marijuana is horrible and bad. Personally, I'd rather refrain from both (which is what I've done) but if I had to choose a safer, less-harmful one, I'd definitely choose marijuana.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 09:32:14 PM by JamesR »

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2013, 09:20:06 PM »
I was best man for a wedding rehearsal where the RC priest was drunk.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2013, 09:21:38 PM »
On a related note, something that bothers me very much in the Orthodox Church is that drunkenness and alcoholism seems to be accepted or at the very best ignored and swept under the rug. Yet, marijuana is horribly stigmatized and people who spoke it are stereotyped as being dumb stoners. Alcohol and being drunk is MUCH more worse than smoking marijuana and being high from it. For starters, I've NEVER seen a pothead get violent or angry while under the influence of marijuana--most of them just seem tired and passed out afterward--whereas I've seen several alcoholics who become violent and abuse their wives when they drink. But, of course, alcohol is accepted as okay but marijuana is horrible and bad. Personally, I'd rather refrain from both (which is what I've done) but if I had to choose a safer, less-harmful one, I'd definitely choose marijuana.

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Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2013, 09:34:44 PM »
On a related note, something that bothers me very much in the Orthodox Church is that drunkenness and alcoholism seems to be accepted or at the very best ignored and swept under the rug. Yet, marijuana is horribly stigmatized and people who spoke it are stereotyped as being dumb stoners. Alcohol and being drunk is MUCH more worse than smoking marijuana and being high from it. For starters, I've NEVER seen a pothead get violent or angry while under the influence of marijuana--most of them just seem tired and passed out afterward--whereas I've seen several alcoholics who become violent and abuse their wives when they drink. But, of course, alcohol is accepted as okay but marijuana is horrible and bad. Personally, I'd rather refrain from both (which is what I've done) but if I had to choose a safer, less-harmful one, I'd definitely choose marijuana.

Please, not this again! 

Yes, please not this again. 
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Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2013, 09:36:01 PM »
I was best man for a wedding rehearsal where the RC priest was drunk.

This is what happens when we start losing our ability to discern right from wrong.  I never would have let that priest perform the marriage.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2013, 09:26:54 AM »
1. no
2. no
3. all the time.....


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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2013, 09:41:28 AM »
Have you ever a) heard a sermon about drunkenness b) been scolded by a priest for drinking too much c) confessed drinking too much?

No to all three. It may be the Greek drinking culture, but alcoholism is not a huge problem there, neither is binge drinking. Personally, too much booze tends to make me sleepy, so I can't really go beyond the 'buzzed' stage, which has spared me the usual aftermath (throwing up, hangover, blackouts). I've been well and truly drunk (and yet quite lucid) precisely once in my life.
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Offline Robert scho

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2013, 10:19:42 AM »
Blessings;

The argument: "Where's drinking listed in the commandments?"
The counter  : Alcohol isn't listed as a commandment, "it's just a tool or vehicle to breaking all ten"...

Pot? Is it not enough of a challenge to spiritually follow what is good and right and just and true (if we love our lord we will keep his commandments) let alone to attempt truth under a haze of poison smoke?....

Also,no to all the Q's.

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Offline mike

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2013, 10:21:51 AM »
Pot? Is it not enough of a challenge to spiritually follow what is good and right and just and true (if we love our lord we will keep his commandments) let alone to attempt truth under a haze of poison smoke?....


Not really. It makes you lazy and not eager to do anything, including sinning.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2013, 10:31:03 AM »
Pot? Is it not enough of a challenge to spiritually follow what is good and right and just and true (if we love our lord we will keep his commandments) let alone to attempt truth under a haze of poison smoke?....


Not really. It makes you lazy and not eager to do anything, including sinning.

^ That, in itself is a sin.

You should never let anything alter your mind.  Not drinking, drugs, video game obsessions, etc.  NOTHING should cloud your judgment.  ALL addictions are bad.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2013, 10:33:59 AM »
You should never let anything alter your mind.

I disagree. Depends how, when and why.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2013, 10:35:31 AM »
You should never let anything alter your mind.

I disagree. Depends how, when and why.

The ONLY reason I could imagine, is if someone has a mental illness and needs these types of medications to help them live a normal life.

Otherwise, I would disagree with you.

It's never permitted to "lose" your whits.

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2013, 10:37:32 AM »
It's never permitted to "lose" your whits.

Marijuana doesn't make one lose whits. At least what I observed.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2013, 10:40:59 AM »
I never heard a sermon about drunkenness (As Catholic or Orthodox).  Nor about abortion, either (as Orthodox).

My cousin's husband converted to Byzantine Catholicism after his Pentecostal family became very mean and abusive to my cousin when they found out her faith.  After their Byzantine Catholic wedding, they saw the priest that married them at another wedding.   The priest came up to my cousin's new husband, put his arm on his shoulder and asked my cousin's husband  to go up to the bar and get him a scotch.   This really surprised my cousin's formerly Pentecostal husband who didn't come from a 100% Slavic family of steel workers and factory workers.   ( I was given Slivovitz to drink when I was in elementary school.....  And my father was given cloths soaked in whiskey while he was teething which probably set him up for the alcoholism that he suffers from to this day.  And it seemed that we could do a lot of Christmas shopping at the liquor store, buying bottles of whiskey for family members as Christmas gifts.)  I really turned against alcohol when I was 15 and got drunk on Christmas day with my Croatian family  after attending Divine Liturgy with my Rusyn family.   Somehow being drunk on Christmas day seemed so wrong that it gave me a very strong message. Now I might take a few sips of my husband's shot of Slivovitz once a year at the Serbian festival or some vodka at a Russian festival,  and a small glass of wine a few times a year, but that's really it.

Offline Adela

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2013, 10:47:12 AM »
It's never permitted to "lose" your whits.

Marijuana doesn't make one lose whits. At least what I observed.

Perhaps there isn't a Meigs County in Poland and perhaps you've never seen someone smoke some weed laced with PCP......  I've seen people really get spaced out on marijuana and I wouldn't want to let my mind get altered in this manner, without a strong medical reason for doing so.

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2013, 10:57:21 AM »
It's never permitted to "lose" your whits.

Marijuana doesn't make one lose whits. At least what I observed.

Just how much experience do you have with weed?

...and what exactly is the reason for smoking it?

If it has not effect, than why bother?



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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2013, 10:59:02 AM »
Somehow being drunk on Christmas day seemed so wrong that it gave me a very strong message.

Now if only you could pass that message along to the unmarried and the youths around these parts.

They're drunk straight out of the church on Pascha morning and don't slow down until Thomas comes around.
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2013, 11:00:21 AM »
Just how much experience do you have with weed?

...and what exactly is the reason for smoking it?

If it has not effect, than why bother?

I'm not convinced I should talk about it in Public Forum.

They're drunk straight out of the church on Pascha morning and don't slow down until Thomas comes around.

Pascal vespers is always fun. Especially carrying a banner.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 11:00:35 AM by Michał Kalina »
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #31 on: November 11, 2013, 11:01:22 AM »
Just how much experience do you have with weed?

...and what exactly is the reason for smoking it?

If it has not effect, than why bother?

I'm not convinced I should talk about it in Public Forum.


Well, if you don't want to talk about in the Public Forum, than don't present yourself as some kind of expert on the subject matter.
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Offline Hawkeye

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2013, 11:03:20 AM »
They're drunk straight out of the church on Pascha morning and don't slow down until Thomas comes around.

Pascal vespers is always fun. Especially carrying a banner.

Church is packed in the morning with hardly any room to move.

Vespers? Barely enough people to keep the show going. They're all too busy partying.
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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2013, 11:04:09 AM »
Have you ever a) heard a sermon about drunkenness b) been scolded by a priest for drinking too much c) confessed drinking too much?

a) Yes
b) No
c) n/a

I've never understood the need to get "drunk".

Seems like a silly thing to do to your body and mind.

What's the point of "having fun", if you don't remember having the fun the next day?

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #34 on: November 11, 2013, 11:23:41 AM »
To the OP, this is how it goes at my (priestless) Old Believer parish:

After services are over, the older folk ask everyone to sit down and stay for a moment, (a) before complaining about the drunkenness (b) of all the younger folk present. (c) They then demand that all of the offenders - which is, honestly, most everyone there - confess their crimes and perform public penance for several weeks.

Rinse and repeat ad nauseam. You'd think that something would change but it doesn't. This spectacle has become more like a required sacrament rather than a rectifying measure.

I've gone through it once but, admittedly, I've been drunk several times since then.
"Take heed, you who listen to me: Our misfortune is inevitable, we cannot escape it. If God allows scandals, it is that the elect shall be revealed. Let them be burned, let them be purified, let them who have been tried be made manifest among you."   - The Life of the Archpriest Avvakum by Himself

Offline Alpo

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2013, 12:24:53 PM »
Somehow being drunk on Christmas day seemed so wrong that it gave me a very strong message.

Now if only you could pass that message along to the unmarried and the youths around these parts.

They're drunk straight out of the church on Pascha morning and don't slow down until Thomas comes around.

That sounds truly Orthodox. Maybe I should anathematize Nikon.
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

Offline Robert scho

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2013, 01:04:33 PM »
Also important to note, I have a couple glasses of burgundy a month and definitely wont judge people for vices but it is important not to be "given" to any vice.

And Uh Oh- I may have messed up the content of the poll part of this thread because anybody answering after my post cannot say no to the sermon part of it? Haaaaaa

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #37 on: November 11, 2013, 01:40:51 PM »
Pascal vespers is always fun. Especially carrying a banner.

Unfortuantely they're not done in my parish. Actually, in Warsaw they're served only in the cathedral. But it's too long distance and too early. At this time (1 pm or something like that) I usually start drinking wine or I'm in the middle of first bottle, as we break the fast and start solem breakfast around 9-10 am. If the service was done at e.g 5 pm, I would attend it gaily.


I've never understood the need to get "drunk".
What's the point of "having fun", if you don't remember having the fun the next day?
Being drunk doesn't necesarilly mean to don't remember this "having fun". Actually, only 2 times have happenned to me to don't remember something while I was drunked and they're just very small pieces). But, generally I agree, that being drunked doesn't give so much fun. I prefer the state just right before being drunkend, I mean this state of joy, you know what I'm thinking about
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #38 on: November 11, 2013, 01:49:20 PM »
I've never understood the need to get "drunk".

Seems like a silly thing to do to your body and mind.

What's the point of "having fun", if you don't remember having the fun the next day?

It's a social thing. The thing is not being drunk but spending time with your friends. Sometimes alcohol can be used to facilitate that.
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #39 on: November 11, 2013, 01:49:54 PM »
Being drunk doesn't necesarilly mean to don't remember this "having fun". Actually, only 2 times have happenned to me to don't remember something while I was drunked and they're just very small pieces). But, generally I agree, that being drunked doesn't give so much fun. I prefer the state just right before being drunkend, I mean this state of joy, you know what I'm thinking about

...;)  actually, I don't know.

I've had a few drinks here and there.  A glass of wine, champagne, etc. on special occasions.

I've seen what drink does to people, and I didn't like what I saw.  So, I generally stay away from it.  I've never had more than one glass of wine, at a time, and therefore, have never gotten to the point of drunkenness.

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #40 on: November 11, 2013, 01:50:38 PM »
I've never understood the need to get "drunk".

Seems like a silly thing to do to your body and mind.

What's the point of "having fun", if you don't remember having the fun the next day?

It's a social thing. The thing is not being drunk but spending time with your friends. Sometimes alcohol can be used to facilitate that.

I do this all the time with my friends....only it's usually over coffee.

We've got some great coffee shops in my area.  No need to go bar hopping.
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #41 on: November 11, 2013, 02:01:44 PM »

...;)  actually, I don't know.

That you're able to control rourself, but you're more relaxed, happy, more open to communicate with people, laughing etc. It's the state (well, it depends on the person, but at least that's my case) after 2-4 glasses of wine or 2-3 cans/bottles of beer. If I drink more, usually I'm getting drunekd and yea, then it's definitely a sin as I can't control what I'm doing.

I've never had more than one glass of wine, at a time, and therefore, have never gotten to the point of drunkenness.
Wow. You're probably first Ukrainian with such attitude that I've "met" ;)
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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #42 on: November 11, 2013, 02:03:46 PM »
I've never understood the need to get "drunk".

Seems like a silly thing to do to your body and mind.

What's the point of "having fun", if you don't remember having the fun the next day?

It's a social thing. The thing is not being drunk but spending time with your friends. Sometimes alcohol can be used to facilitate that.

I do this all the time with my friends....only it's usually over coffee.

We've got some great coffee shops in my area.  No need to go bar hopping.


That's fun too. But different kind of fun is had with beer.
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #43 on: November 11, 2013, 02:07:00 PM »
I've never understood the need to get "drunk".

Seems like a silly thing to do to your body and mind.

What's the point of "having fun", if you don't remember having the fun the next day?

It's a social thing. The thing is not being drunk but spending time with your friends. Sometimes alcohol can be used to facilitate that.

I do this all the time with my friends....only it's usually over coffee.

We've got some great coffee shops in my area.  No need to go bar hopping.


That's fun too. But different kind of fun is had with beer.

Finns appreciate the bean as well. They're the biggest coffee drinkers in the world, I seem to recall. ;)
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Offline Alpo

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Re: Drunkenness
« Reply #44 on: November 11, 2013, 02:17:20 PM »
Correct. We love to drink all kind of things.
But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34