Author Topic: Pope to give a woman a Cardinal's hat?  (Read 3117 times)

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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Pope to give a woman a Cardinal's hat?
« Reply #45 on: November 04, 2013, 12:35:25 PM »
Not everything I type or have typed in the past is reflective of the teaching of the Orthodox Church, or may not reflect my contemporary views on a subject. (4/6/2015)

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Offline Tallitot

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Re: Pope to give a woman a Cardinal's hat?
« Reply #46 on: November 04, 2013, 12:45:04 PM »
'This is nonsense' lol

read the article but in the interest of public mental health I urge caution before viewing the pictures of "unusual churches' at the bottom of the page.

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Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Pope to give a woman a Cardinal's hat?
« Reply #47 on: November 04, 2013, 01:10:54 PM »
'This is nonsense' lol

Praise God! 

There was a real good chance this was a hoax, as was suggested in the first or second post, but like I said, I've seen so many things happen that I never dreamed would actually happen.  I hope all those people who want the pope to 'reform' the Church are just mad as hell. 

Some of my questions might appear patently stupid to those well-versed in Orthodoxy, but I'm brand new, having no background in the faith.  Please grant me a great deal of patience and consideration as I learn the basics.

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Pope to give a woman a Cardinal's hat?
« Reply #48 on: November 04, 2013, 01:23:30 PM »
Technically you could, as the Cardinalate has been technically been, and can be, held by laypeople in the past, and is not necessarily a clerical position... but it would be a longshot loophole, and I don't think the Pope would be that far out there.

Bingo.

Bingo?

Yes, bingo.
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Offline Agabus

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Re: Pope to give a woman a Cardinal's hat?
« Reply #49 on: November 04, 2013, 01:45:24 PM »
'This is nonsense' lol

People never cease to be surprised that what they’re eating when the feed at the global media trough isn’t food...

This would be like the National Enquirer running a story saying the OCA was going to elect its first female metropolitan, and it would be Frederica Matthewes-Green, based on an opinion piece published in the Orthodox Peace Fellowship’s newsletter and a seminarian saying he liked FM-G on Twitter after reading the article. That’s the level of reporting here. People need to stop reading the Daily Mail, and supposedly reputable news organizations need to stop reposting their crap like it’s real news.

This stuff always seems to take off because, once a "legit" news organization picks up a Daily Mail piece, others jump in and republish on their website, giving it all a seeming legitimacy when in fact it's a tenuous string of assertions based on statements that may or may not support the thesis, which the secondary news organizations just report as fact.
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Offline Tallitot

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Re: Pope to give a woman a Cardinal's hat?
« Reply #50 on: November 04, 2013, 02:19:30 PM »
Does anyone still wear a hat?...I'll drink to that.
Proverbs 22:7

Offline Jetavan

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Re: Pope to give a woman a Cardinal's hat?
« Reply #51 on: November 04, 2013, 04:04:40 PM »
Theologically and theoretically, it is possible,” [Lombardi] added. “Being a cardinal is one of those roles in the church for which, theoretically, you do not have to be ordained but to move from there to suggesting the pope will name women cardinals for the next consistory is not remotely realistic.” [Editor: bold added]
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 04:05:12 PM by Jetavan »
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Offline brastaseptim

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Re: Pope to give a woman a Cardinal's hat?
« Reply #52 on: November 04, 2013, 04:21:07 PM »
Does anyone still wear a hat?...I'll drink to that.

Well, the local Latin priest insists now on wearing a biretta, if that counts. He says he'll move up to maniples next.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Pope to give a woman a Cardinal's hat?
« Reply #53 on: November 04, 2013, 04:26:15 PM »
He says he'll move up to maniples next.

A fine vestment, I don't know why they got rid of it. 

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Offline brastaseptim

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Re: Pope to give a woman a Cardinal's hat?
« Reply #54 on: November 04, 2013, 04:28:43 PM »
He says he'll move up to maniples next.

A fine vestment, I don't know why they got rid of it. 



Agreed. I'm guessing they thought it got in the way, like the amice that only traditional priests seem to use anymore, or the dalmatic that some deacons complain is too hot to wear in mid-November.
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Offline William

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Re: Pope to give a woman a Cardinal's hat?
« Reply #55 on: November 04, 2013, 04:36:39 PM »
Come on, how can you not love a Pope like this?

How? Fairly simply, you just need to be able to see through his hubris masquerading as godly humility.
I would say that accusing the Pope of hubris is itself a pretty arrogant thing to do.

Actually, I'm more inclined to agree with William, even if I might not have expressed myself so bluntly.  There are a few reasons why I like this Pope, and for those reasons I sometimes find myself defending him against his own subjects, but even so, I cannot agree that his much vaunted humility is all they want us to believe it is.  He may have humility on some personal level, but he knows he is being watched and commented upon, and I can't help but feel that most of these displays of humility are a calculated campaign to project an image of humility.  

It's not humble to shift his residence from the place all his predecessors used to a "hotel" not set up for the purpose in order to be around people, and then to remain just as aloof from "the people" as some recent reports imply.  It's not humble to have new vestments and pontificals commissioned that "look simpler" than the stuff his predecessor would routinely use when the latter was already in the possession of the Vatican and the former involve spending lots of money (cheap looking is not cheap) to look poor.  It's not humble to encourage people to do the work of the gospel boldly, even if it raises the ire of ecclesiastical authority, while slamming down in the most clericalist and authoritarian way those groups doing it in a particular, "traditionalist" way (incidentally, the only groups which are likely to respond to such with obedience) and letting others slide.  There are other examples.  

I think a lot of these things are an attempt to change the public impression of the papacy, part and parcel of the "reform" he was supposedly elected to accomplish.  But this "humility" throws a bone to the media and, through them, to the faithful while the Papacy and the Curia still keep on going much as before.  In a way, it's a smokescreen.  Given how recently he assumed the papacy, it would've been more humble to just keep a low profile for a year and not make any major changes until he learned the lay of the land.  That he's able to make some changes with all the force of a bull in a china shop while biding his time or even resisting with regard to others makes me think this isn't primarily about humility.  Again, he may have it to some degree on a personal level, but humility is now a tool.  

I think Apotheoun (a Catholic) sums it up pretty nicely:

Pope Francis: "...I have the humility and ambition to want to do something."

It is a worrying thing when a person begins to extol his own humility.
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Offline Jetavan

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Re: Pope to give a woman a Cardinal's hat?
« Reply #56 on: November 04, 2013, 04:57:00 PM »

I think Apotheoun (a Catholic) sums it up pretty nicely:

Pope Francis: "...I have the humility and ambition to want to do something."

It is a worrying thing when a person begins to extol his own humility.

"I am humble and meek of heart" -- Matthew 11:29
If you will, you can become all flame.
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Pope to give a woman a Cardinal's hat?
« Reply #57 on: November 04, 2013, 05:21:14 PM »
I think Apotheoun (a Catholic) sums it up pretty nicely:

Pope Francis: "...I have the humility and ambition to want to do something."

It is a worrying thing when a person begins to extol his own humility.

William, I hope you never become an alcoholic and then try to get sober though AA, cause it's going to be REALLY hard on you.
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Offline Maria

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Re: Pope to give a woman a Cardinal's hat?
« Reply #58 on: November 04, 2013, 06:34:36 PM »
;D Well, the two of you have put a smile on my face. Thank you.

Next time, try: Frankly?
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Offline Fabio Leite

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Re: Pope to give a woman a Cardinal's hat?
« Reply #59 on: November 07, 2013, 08:06:25 AM »
This is what the spokesman, Fr. Frederico Lombardi, said:

Quote
“This is just nonsense . . . It is simply not a realistic possibility that Pope Francis will name women cardinals for the February consistory. Theologically and theoretically, it is possible. Being a cardinal is one of those roles in the church for which, theoretically, you do not have to be ordained but to move from there to suggesting the pope will name women cardinals for the next consistory is not remotely realistic.”

Basically, he reinforced the idea of cardinal women, and said that it is not feasible for the next consistory only. He is making a statement about political tactics while at the same time subverting Roman tradition.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2013, 08:07:03 AM by Fabio Leite »
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Offline primuspilus

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Re: Pope to give a woman a Cardinal's hat?
« Reply #60 on: November 07, 2013, 08:14:44 AM »
Hey, if it happens, we better buy more chairs  :laugh:

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Offline brastaseptim

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Re: Pope to give a woman a Cardinal's hat?
« Reply #61 on: November 07, 2013, 08:34:27 AM »
If it happens, I hope he at least appoints a Byzantine cardinal to make up for it.
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Offline Fabio Leite

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Re: Pope to give a woman a Cardinal's hat?
« Reply #62 on: November 07, 2013, 08:57:33 AM »
Since the spokesman has already said that is theologically possible, the role of cardinal is already subverted. The actual nomination is just a matter of political timing.

I wonder where even moderate Romans will stand on this.
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Offline Jetavan

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Re: Pope to give a woman a Cardinal's hat?
« Reply #63 on: November 07, 2013, 09:12:25 AM »
Since the spokesman has already said that is theologically possible, the role of cardinal is already subverted.
It seems that the role of cardinal was subverted at the moment of its creation.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
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