OrthodoxChristianity.net
August 28, 2014, 07:38:41 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Literal Translation of Colossians 1:19  (Read 178 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
xOrthodox4Christx
Warned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Protestant (Inquirer)
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Christianity
Posts: 3,022



« on: November 23, 2013, 11:06:22 PM »

19 ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ εὐδόκησεν πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα κατοικῆσαι

The translation says: "For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;" or "For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell" But the word 'God' and 'Father' isn't in the Greek.

I'm not smart enough to decipher the literal meaning by myself, so I would like help from some greater minds than I.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2013, 11:06:40 PM by xOrthodox4Christx » Logged

“We now live in a nation where doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the press destroys information, religion destroys morals, and our banks destroy the economy.” (Chris Hedges)
MichaelofSN
What is even happening right now?
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOARCH
Posts: 61



« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2013, 12:18:07 AM »

19 ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ εὐδόκησεν πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα κατοικῆσαι

The translation says: "For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;" or "For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell" But the word 'God' and 'Father' isn't in the Greek.

I'm not smart enough to decipher the literal meaning by myself, so I would like help from some greater minds than I.

It's my opinion, given the context (which is made apparent just two verses before 19), that whether the Father is mentioned or not is inconsequential.  The focus of the sentence should be "fullness dwelt"... it is a reiteration of "by Him all things consist", from verse 17.

The OSB footnotes suggest that Paul used "the fullness" because it was a direct response to popular, gnostic, pagan theology... As if gnostics adopted some idea of "fullness" from other theologies, but were using it to justify their heresy.

Fullness (#G4138):
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4138&t=KJV

EDIT: Being from the epistle, it's hard to say anything literal.  I will add this; Despite the words being italicized, some form of Greek suggesting the Father might have been in the original manuscripts, because St. John Chrysostom mentions this verse containing reference of the Father.  What makes you say that the concept of the Father was not "in the Greek"?
« Last Edit: November 24, 2013, 12:28:24 AM by MichaelofSN » Logged

This jurisdiction: "Mmmmm hmmm!"
That jurisdiction: "Oh *know* she didn't!"
xOrthodox4Christx
Warned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Protestant (Inquirer)
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Christianity
Posts: 3,022



« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2013, 12:21:25 AM »

The point of the literal translation is to use it in a study of Christology.

But, it's fine if I cannot have a literal translation. I found a 'better' verse.

9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, 10 and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority.
9 ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ κατοικεῖ πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος σωματικῶς, 10 καὶ ἐστὲ ἐν αὐτῷ πεπληρωμένοι, ὅς ἐστιν ἡ κεφαλὴ πάσης ἀρχῆς καὶ ἐξουσίας,
Logged

“We now live in a nation where doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the press destroys information, religion destroys morals, and our banks destroy the economy.” (Chris Hedges)
MichaelofSN
What is even happening right now?
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOARCH
Posts: 61



« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2013, 12:31:30 AM »

The point of the literal translation is to use it in a study of Christology.

But, it's fine if I cannot have a literal translation. I found a 'better' verse.

9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, 10 and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority.
9 ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ κατοικεῖ πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος σωματικῶς, 10 καὶ ἐστὲ ἐν αὐτῷ πεπληρωμένοι, ὅς ἐστιν ἡ κεφαλὴ πάσης ἀρχῆς καὶ ἐξουσίας,

Sorry, I should not have taken so long to edit the message...

Quote from: MichaelofSN
Despite the words being italicized, some form of Greek suggesting the Father might have been in the original manuscripts, because St. John Chrysostom mentions this verse containing reference of the Father.  What makes you say that the concept of the Father was not "in the Greek"?

Besides the obvious, I suppose.  Smiley  I say if the Church Fathers were reading it as containing the concept of the Father, than it had to be in there at some point.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2013, 12:34:00 AM by MichaelofSN » Logged

This jurisdiction: "Mmmmm hmmm!"
That jurisdiction: "Oh *know* she didn't!"
Laird
Not yet able to attend an Orthodox Church
Elder
*****
Online Online

Faith: Inquirer (Catechumen soon hopefully)
Jurisdiction: Baptist
Posts: 255


Lord, have mercy on me


« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2013, 12:41:26 AM »

19 ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ εὐδόκησεν πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα κατοικῆσαι

The translation says: "For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;" or "For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell" But the word 'God' and 'Father' isn't in the Greek.

I'm not smart enough to decipher the literal meaning by myself, so I would like help from some greater minds than I.

"For in him all the fullness was pleased to dwell" - EOB Bible  http://pc-freak.net/files/nt6x9.pdf

I think that's as literal as it can get  Tongue I checked a Greek interlinear and it looks legit.
Logged
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.075 seconds with 32 queries.