Mormon family interested in Orthodoxy

[ddacla]

First time posting, but I've been lurking for nearly a year. My husband and I, along with our 5 kids, left Mormonism unofficially a little over a year ago. Both of us started feeling uneasy about the religion and its doctrines shortly after the birth of our toddlers and the intense interaction we had the with church and its members during that time. Both my husband and I were BIC, temple endowed, temple married, BYU attending, Return missionary (my husband) from mormon convert families. We were about as true blue, squeaky mormon as it can get. My husband's family is extreme mormon, so much so that if they even had a whiff of him leaving they'd probably disown him. Mine know I no longer wear garments, don't keep the WOW or go to church and have engaged in some intense conversations with me about it. I think the fact that my parents were never really devout mormon helps in that regard.

Around February of this year I hit rock bottom trying to figure out who I was. I felt completely lost. With the loss of our faith it was like a gaping hole opened in both our souls. We literally lost our entire support system, friends, faith - everything. The only thing we haven't lost is our families, which, once they know we are resigning from the LDS church, well...we'll see. It's amazing how much of our lives were intertwined with the church. One night I started thinking about who I wanted to be and I remembered an old friend I'd lost touch with years ago. She is the sweetest, kindest, humblest person I've ever known. Truly loving and caring. I remembered how much I admired those traits in her and thought 'I'd want to be like Anne if I had to reinvent myself', and then rememembered that she once told me about the church she joined - the Antiochian Orthodox Church. From that point I started looking things up on the internet and reading anything and everything I could get my hands on. I started telling my husband about what I was learning, and he was surprised. He'd never heard of Orthodoxy. He figured there was only Protestant Churches and Catholicism, as I think most lifelong LDS do. Neither one of us knew about the history of the early Church. We were both surprised to hear that there wasn't a 'Great Apostasy'. That was an eye opener. I contacted a couple of priests in our area (we live in Utah, so it's kinda slim pickins...) and have been in contact with one priest since February who has been very kind in answering my questions and giving me a reading list. We have yet to go to DL simply because of logistics. We have 5 children, 3 yrs and under and another on the way. It's a task getting out anywhere! My husband and I  plan on going to DL tomorrow with our oldest and leaving the others with grandpa. I'm really excited about going and hope my husband finds it uplifting as well. The priest recommended a catechism oriented book, which I read and loved, along with some others. I'm currently reading 'The Orthodox Faith', Eusibius 'History of the Church', along with other books written by ancient and more modern Church fathers and Saints.

I'm having a few problems, mostly trying to reconcile a lifetime of indoctrination vs. what Christianity really IS. The Trinity is a big one. It's hard to wrap my mind around, but from what I've read if I could wrap my mind around it, it wouldn't be a Mystery, right? So, that I can accept. But it's mostly the little things. Pretty much everything I've learned and known is upside down. I'm like a baby Christian, learning everything for the first time and it's extremely overwhelming. I don't know how to pray, at least not in the Mormon way. I realized after leaving Mormonism that I don't know Jesus or God at all. I know of them, but I don't know Them. I want to change that for myself, but mostly for the sake of my children.

Does anyone here have small children they bring to DL? How do you keep them preoccupied? I tried attending the local parish, but my 3 yr old was simply unruly, even confining her to the narthex and cry room was almost impossible. It was a small parish, with no small kids in sight, so mine making a ruckus was VERY noticeable. The parish we're attending tomorrow according to the priest has lots of small kids and is much bigger, so we shouldn't have a problem with sticking out as much. The priest has 6 kids himself, so it'll be a bit better I think. But, any ideas would be appreciated.

Thank you in advance!

[mike]

I know doens of children that attend church. And they make rucuss. I suppose that's what children do.

[newtoorthodoxy]

The OCA church and the Greek parish I attend now both have members bringing small children and infants.  The priest at the OCA parish even said in his sermon that little children and even crying babies are a blessing in an Orthodox church.  You control them as much as you can, but nobody expects them to be little silent robots.  Those are tough ages for children, but I certainly wouldn't deprive them.

[mike]

I suppose your children would handle conversion more smoothly than you would.

[AClaire11]

I've never been to a DL where there weren't noisy children.  One suggestion would be to bring a picture book (perhaps religious-themed?) and see if that will calm the toddler down a bit.  I have seen parents pick up the children and take them out of the sanctuary for a few minutes.  Of course, it depends how big the church is.

I converted to the LDS church and was a member for only a few years, and I STILL struggle with the irrational pull to go back, even though in my head I know it's not true.  You and your husband are very brave for leaving in the face of all the social pressure, and very strong for being able to break through all the manipulation.

[ddacla]

The priest assured me it wouldn't be a problem with all of the kids (we have 4, 20 month olds and my 3 1/2 year old) and that he'd get some of the parish ladies to help us handle them. I just want to find some ways of keeping them preoccupied and/or engaged in the DL. Not expecting them to be little robots.

[xOrthodox4Christx]

There was a 'Great Apostasy', it was just in the West. The Church Christ founded in the Hellenic and Middle Eastern world never vanished. If you need a good analogy on the Trinity, just think of God as a community not as a single person. God is a community. The same way the Church is a community.

Syrian Orthodox Divine Liturgy-Jerusalem

Greek Orthodox Divine Liturgy-Thessalonica

[Gamliel]

The kids will be welcome.  

I don't know how to pray, at least not in the Mormon way.

Speak with a priest.  Meanwhile, there is the Jesus prayer:  LORD Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.  May the LORD be with you and your family during Divine Liturgy.

[newtoorthodoxy]

The priest assured me it wouldn't be a problem with all of the kids (we have 4, 20 month olds and my 3 1/2 year old) and that he'd get some of the parish ladies to help us handle them. I just want to find some ways of keeping them preoccupied and/or engaged in the DL. Not expecting them to be little robots.

No, I wouldn't think you'd expect that of toddlers that age.  Just saying no one else expects it either. 

[Maria]

I have seen many parents bringing Orthodox coloring books for their kids to color. It is awesome to see the children lying on the floor coloring religious pictures while singing or humming the same songs that the adults sing. However, you gotta watch those crayons or markers.

Older children often help watch over the little ones.

[RehamG]

I have a 3 year old as well as a 5yr old with ADHD. My oldest reads kids books about DL that are kept around, or draws. There are always kids, and mothers are always going in an out with them as needed. No one seems to mind. I still try to stand near other mothers though for moral support.

[Hinterlander]

Go to Ancient Faith Radio and pick any podcast of a weekly homily and you WILL hear babies crying and being fussy.  I wouldn't worry.

[genesisone]

It's much better to hear the voices of normal children than the voices of inconsiderate adults conversing during the Divine Liturgy.

[KBN1]

A church without children doesn't feel like Church, no matter their temperament.

[Shiny]

With the loss of our faith it was like a gaping hole opened in both our souls. We literally lost our entire support system, friends, faith - everything.

I've read over the years testimonials from ex-Mormons and the hardest thing to leave Mormonism behind actually isn't the religion itself, but everything else like you said (family, friends, etc.).

I just relocated and being a thousand miles away from my family has taken a toll on me, so I couldn't imagine it from a Mormon perspective considering they shun family members who no longer belong to the faith. Since your family doesn't know yet, I also would be nervous telling them the news.

You will be in my prayers.

Take some solace in the fact that you are not doing this alone, from what it sounds like you have a devoted husband and your children to lean on.

I'm having a few problems, mostly trying to reconcile a lifetime of indoctrination vs. what Christianity really IS. The Trinity is a big one. It's hard to wrap my mind around, but from what I've read if I could wrap my mind around it, it wouldn't be a Mystery, right? So, that I can accept. But it's mostly the little things. Pretty much everything I've learned and known is upside down. I'm like a baby Christian, learning everything for the first time and it's extremely overwhelming. I don't know how to pray, at least not in the Mormon way. I realized after leaving Mormonism that I don't know Jesus or God at all. I know of them, but I don't know Them. I want to change that for myself, but mostly for the sake of my children.

I'm not surprised the Trinity is a big one for you, it is probably the single most distinguishing thing when you compare both what Mormons and Orthodox believe about it. Our theology is radically different, but you already know that.

It will always be a mystery in the sense that our intellectual faculties cannot truly comprehend the paradox. One God, Three Persons. For me it is easier to grasp that Jesus Christ is God and go from there.

I think ddacla, that you will find in the Orthodox Church the most faithful to the actual Gospel as described in the Bible. It doesn't seem like you need much convincing in regards to that.

[Nacho]

Wow, you are going to have a tough journey for sure with so many family ties to Mormonism. I left the protestant faith but didn't really have to worry about family so much over that. You should check out a guy name Sean Mcreaney on youtube. He used to be a life long Mormon but he left and now he has a ministry in Salt Lake City solely focused on the huge blunders of the Mormon faith. Though he is evangelical, through his live TV broadcast (called 'Heart of the Matter') he is at the center of a movement of ex-mormons who have left the church. I think he works closely with Sandra Tanner, another well known ex-mormon. Maybe I'm naive, but you would think it would be just as easy for people to google search "Joe Smith" and see what comes up...

 

[Nathanael]

I don't know how to pray, at least not in the Mormon way.

If you haven't started yet praying with an orthodox prayer book, then it may help you to pray with it (If you don't understand some things you can ask your orthodox priest.) After some weeks or months you feel a difference. The Psalter is very useful as well, if we pray it more or less properly.

One night I started thinking about who I wanted to be and I remembered an old friend I'd lost touch with years ago. She is the sweetest, kindest, humblest person I've ever known. Truly loving and caring. I remembered how much I admired those traits in her and thought 'I'd want to be like Anne..

I very happy that you found out orthodoxy in this way! .

[ialmisry]

First time posting, but I've been lurking for nearly a year. My husband and I, along with our 5 kids, left Mormonism unofficially a little over a year ago. Both of us started feeling uneasy about the religion and its doctrines shortly after the birth of our toddlers and the intense interaction we had the with church and its members during that time. Both my husband and I were BIC, temple endowed, temple married, BYU attending, Return missionary (my husband) from mormon convert families. We were about as true blue, squeaky mormon as it can get. My husband's family is extreme mormon, so much so that if they even had a whiff of him leaving they'd probably disown him. Mine know I no longer wear garments, don't keep the WOW or go to church and have engaged in some intense conversations with me about it. I think the fact that my parents were never really devout mormon helps in that regard.

Around February of this year I hit rock bottom trying to figure out who I was. I felt completely lost. With the loss of our faith it was like a gaping hole opened in both our souls. We literally lost our entire support system, friends, faith - everything. The only thing we haven't lost is our families, which, once they know we are resigning from the LDS church, well...we'll see. It's amazing how much of our lives were intertwined with the church. One night I started thinking about who I wanted to be and I remembered an old friend I'd lost touch with years ago. She is the sweetest, kindest, humblest person I've ever known. Truly loving and caring. I remembered how much I admired those traits in her and thought 'I'd want to be like Anne if I had to reinvent myself', and then rememembered that she once told me about the church she joined - the Antiochian Orthodox Church. From that point I started looking things up on the internet and reading anything and everything I could get my hands on. I started telling my husband about what I was learning, and he was surprised. He'd never heard of Orthodoxy. He figured there was only Protestant Churches and Catholicism, as I think most lifelong LDS do. Neither one of us knew about the history of the early Church. We were both surprised to hear that there wasn't a 'Great Apostasy'. That was an eye opener. I contacted a couple of priests in our area (we live in Utah, so it's kinda slim pickins...) and have been in contact with one priest since February who has been very kind in answering my questions and giving me a reading list. We have yet to go to DL simply because of logistics. We have 5 children, 3 yrs and under and another on the way. It's a task getting out anywhere! My husband and I  plan on going to DL tomorrow with our oldest and leaving the others with grandpa. I'm really excited about going and hope my husband finds it uplifting as well. The priest recommended a catechism oriented book, which I read and loved, along with some others. I'm currently reading 'The Orthodox Faith', Eusibius 'History of the Church', along with other books written by ancient and more modern Church fathers and Saints.

I'm having a few problems, mostly trying to reconcile a lifetime of indoctrination vs. what Christianity really IS. The Trinity is a big one. It's hard to wrap my mind around, but from what I've read if I could wrap my mind around it, it wouldn't be a Mystery, right? So, that I can accept. But it's mostly the little things. Pretty much everything I've learned and known is upside down. I'm like a baby Christian, learning everything for the first time and it's extremely overwhelming. I don't know how to pray, at least not in the Mormon way. I realized after leaving Mormonism that I don't know Jesus or God at all. I know of them, but I don't know Them. I want to change that for myself, but mostly for the sake of my children.

We have had a couple of former Mormons here, including, IIRC, the Convert Issue Moderator, Thomas.

I took my sons to Utah a number of years ago, when they were 8 and 10.  We loved it.  However, when we went to the Temple my younger one asked, once he noticed that the doors were locked and the curtains drawn "what are they hiding."  My older one, when at the Mormon Museum, said "Baba, these people use the same words, but they don't mean the same thing."  We also have been to Nauvoo.  Lovely country. And also to Carthage, where I had to explain that although the Mormons presented Joseph Smith as a nice guy, that wasn't the whole story.

Does anyone here have small children they bring to DL? How do you keep them preoccupied? I tried attending the local parish, but my 3 yr old was simply unruly, even confining her to the narthex and cry room was almost impossible. It was a small parish, with no small kids in sight, so mine making a ruckus was VERY noticeable. The parish we're attending tomorrow according to the priest has lots of small kids and is much bigger, so we shouldn't have a problem with sticking out as much. The priest has 6 kids himself, so it'll be a bit better I think. But, any ideas would be appreciated.

I used to point out the various things going on in the DL, the icons, etc. and what was happening, why were doing this, etc.  However, that probably won't be an option for you until you learn the same, but should give you something to think of.  Plus, their questions might help you along in answering yours.

Some people I've noticed even walk around with the child during service, pointing things out to to their attention.  If mine had been unruly (and they never really were with me, and now they serve at the altar), I would have tried that.  Others give them icon cards and children's Bibles to preoccupy themselves.  I had a Guardian Angel book for each of them, to try to follow along.
http://archangelsbooks.com/proddetail.asp?prod=SDUGUARDANG

Thank you in advance!

God ease your path and guide your steps!

[orthodox4life]

ddacla, welcome to the forum! Although I haven't seen any other Mormon converts, there are many converts from other faiths here including myself. The fact that you're here shows a hunger for Christ on your part. May God bless your search my friend.

[biro]

Welcome aboard, ddacla. 

[Antonious Nikolas]

Welcome home, ddacla!  God will strengthen you and everything will be all right.

The Holy Trinity is a mystery as you've said, but here are some helpful analogies: http://www.suscopts.org/messages/lectures/theologylecture5.pdf

As far as the kids go, don't worry about it.  As my priest used to say, a church without crying kids is a church without a future.  And as Maria pointed out, coloring books and little baggies of Cheerios and Fruit Loops work wonders! 

[ialmisry]

I don't know how to pray, at least not in the Mormon way.

If you haven't started yet praying with an orthodox prayer book, then it may help you to pray with it (If you don't understand some things you can ask your orthodox priest.) After some weeks or months you feel a difference. The Psalter is very useful as well, if we pray it more or less properly.

One night I started thinking about who I wanted to be and I remembered an old friend I'd lost touch with years ago. She is the sweetest, kindest, humblest person I've ever known. Truly loving and caring. I remembered how much I admired those traits in her and thought 'I'd want to be like Anne..

I very happy that you found out orthodoxy in this way! .

Yes.  Would that more do so, and we become more Annes!  May God give her her reward for her witness.

[Thomas]

As a former LDS, I would be happy to talk with you,just pm me.

Thomas

[Maria]

It's much better to hear the voices of normal children than the voices of inconsiderate adults conversing during the Divine Liturgy.

When children sing the hymns during the Divine Liturgy, it is angelic!

Check YouTube for some solo performances of Orthodox children.

[Maria]

Welcome home, ddacla!  God will strengthen you and everything will be all right.

The Holy Trinity is a mystery as you've said, but here are some helpful analogies: http://www.suscopts.org/messages/lectures/theologylecture5.pdf

As far as the kids go, don't worry about it.  As my priest used to say, a church without crying kids is a church without a future.  And as Maria pointed out, coloring books and little baggies of Cheerios and Fruit Loops work wonders! 

I did not want to mention Cheerios as there have been accidents, so that with every step taken, one hears "crunch."

[brastaseptim]

It's much better to hear the voices of normal children than the voices of inconsiderate adults conversing during the Divine Liturgy.

When children sing the hymns during the Divine Liturgy, it is angelic!

Check YouTube for some solo performances of Orthodox children.

I know what you mean- I once saw a video of children singing the Xrictoc Anecti out in a market square in Russia on Pascha, before an older man started the whole crowd chanting the Paschal Canon together.

[LBK]

Kids singing hymns don't get much cuter than this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJH3M8szXS4

[brastaseptim]

Kids singing hymns don't get much cuter than this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJH3M8szXS4

Found the one I was talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRB3_J14FGs

[xOrthodox4Christx]

Kids singing hymns don't get much cuter than this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJH3M8szXS4

That was quite cute.

[hecma925]

Children making noise during Liturgy always makes me chuckle for some reason.  Having a toddler shout during the homily is always funny, because our priest just smiles (all his children are grown up now).  Don't worry, children will be children and they will learn.

[soderquj]

First welcome to the forum. Second like Thomas I am an Ex Mormon and would be willing to talk. PM me also. I also live in Utah (South Ogden to be exact).

Concerning Children in Liturgy. The sounds of children in Liturgy is the sounds of a living Church.

[primuspilus]

Welcome to the board.

I would say this....Children are part of the Body of Christ, and should be worshiping with the Body of Christ. Removing them is like removing a piece of the Body.

PP

[brastaseptim]

Welcome to the board.

I would say this....Children are part of the Body of Christ, and should be worshiping with the Body of Christ. Removing them is like removing a piece of the Body.

PP

Then where does that leave my mother's Latin parish, in which the main church consists of myself, a small number of either very young kids or very old teens, and a vast number of middle-aged Sicilians (excepting my mentor- he's 39. Has been for 12 years now) that think they still can mambo italiano?

[hecma925]

Mambo with them.

[Shlomlokh]

Welcome to the board.

I would say this....Children are part of the Body of Christ, and should be worshiping with the Body of Christ. Removing them is like removing a piece of the Body.

PP

Then where does that leave my mother's Latin parish, in which the main church consists of myself, a small number of either very young kids or very old teens, and a vast number of middle-aged Sicilians (excepting my mentor- he's 39. Has been for 12 years now) that think they still can mambo italiano?

Become Orthodox?

In Christ,
Andrew

[brastaseptim]

Mambo with them.

I've tried that. I was scared I might break one of their hips.

[hecma925]

Mambo with them.

I've tried that. I was scared I might break one of their hips.

I didn't say mambo italiano with them.  That's just crazy!

[truthseeker32]

Welcome to the board!

I am a former Mormon attending a Greek Orthodox parish (same parish as Soderquj actually ) with hopes of being baptized sometime in the near future. I am more than willing to talk if you feel so inclined. I have spent a lot of time reading and researching both Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, and have met several former Mormons who have converted to Orthodoxy. If you are interested, a friend and I run a private social group on facebook for Mormons interested in Orthodoxy and former Mormons who are now Orthodox. We have a good mix and we would love to have you join. Send me a PM with an e-mail address I can use to invite you if you are interested.

[Seraphim98]

Holy Trinity: I would talk to your priest about a book called "Being as Communion" by Bishop John Zizoulas. Be aware it is a densely written book...like calculus (to me) on the theology of the Capadocian Fathers as it pertains to the mystery of communion in the Godhead and in the Church. It took three or four years of exposure to Orthodoxy before I could make any sort of headway with it.  But I discovered it 30 or so page introduction was well worth the price of admission and gave me some handholds for the rest.

Putting it simply, the author opens with a discussion of person and personhood and divinity and the great thinkers who've tried entering that arena before the advent of the Christian faith. Soon enough though he lays out his argument.

1. God is love. By God we mean the Father.

2. Love does not exist in the absence of the Beloved, nor in the absence of the Beloved Other lest the "divine dyad" exist as some sort of narcissistic closed circuit. Love seeks not its own.  It is open. It is ecstatic...going out of itself. It results in free hypostases.  This is to say the Persons of the Holy Trinity do not exist in isolation or come forth as a matter of the Father's fiat. God is Father...His Fatherness not an attribute that comes after the fact of His person. His Person is the cause of the Godhead, the Holy Trinity. He does not exist unless Son and Sprit exist...because Personhood is relational...no relationships...no person. God is not first God (as substance), then God as Persons. Rather He is God as Person...and as Person then in relationship to other Persons. Because the Father is the font of Divinity, these Person had the same nature and substance (so to speak). This has meaning.

3. Since God is love and love is relational and does not exist in the absence of the Beloved and the Other and since love is ecstatic, going out of itself the ecstasis of the Father is the Son and the Spirit, each completely living in and for the other two members of the Holy Trinity, thus revealing communion is the primary ontological category, the very font of being. This is to say, nothing exists to itself alone, not even God. Everything has a cause and exists as an expression of prior relationships and is itself cause and participant in new relationships. Everything that is exists as an event of communion...even God. The cause of God is the Father. The Holy Trinity is the expression of the Fathers will to be as an event of communion....the interweaving perichoric "dance" of the Holy Trinity. The Church is the extension of this primordial communion to created beings such as angels and men...and presumably in time to the remainder of creation in some capacity.

4. God exists in Trinity as an event of communion, but since God is Love, He is not bound. He is free not subject to necessity. He does not exist because He must exist, but rather affirms His will to be in the event of communion with the other members of the Holy Trinity, as do they with Him and each other.  Thus we learn that the only state of being comfortable with love is that of freedom. Hence the non compulsion of men and angels to love and serve God.

5. However, if that choice is not man both men and angels face an existential crisis...certainly man does, for he does not exist by his own will. He exists because his parents begat him. He didn't ask to be born. Well neither did any of his parents or their parents on back to our distant forefathers Adam and Eve. Man is not free in his being and apart from God can only try to affirm his freedom by choosing "not to be"...suicide (not that it accomplishes the desired end), to reject his own life. The Church answers this need in the affirmative through Holy Baptism. In Baptism we are made participants in the first primordial communion. We freely affirm our will to be in the event of the Communion of the Holy Trinity and all other beings so united in that communion of Love. As St. Paul says "we are members of one another" and Christ is the Head of the Body.

Now my rendition of this though is incomplete and perhaps not well handled in places...but it made more sense of the doctrine of the Holy Trinity than I had ever encountered before. The long and short of it being, if God is Love then He exists in the great Communion of Love that is the Holy Trinity. 

This view is essentially the monarchial view of God, with the Father the cause and font of the Godhead of which the Son exists as the Begotten Beloved of God and the Holy Spirit Proceeds from the Father as His Spirit. What actually distinguishes what it is to be begotten or to proceed forth from the Father no one knows. We know what has been revealed to us and what may be inferred from what has been revealed to us but not more. Just speaking personally the closest I can get to it by analogy is an examination of the first human family. When Cain was born Adam spoke of him as his own image and likeness. Adam begat Cain via Eve...in a sense Cain being the ecstasis of his father Adam for he was begotten outside of Adam. Adam and Cain were like one another (males). Eve however was not created out of nothing, not born, but rather drawn forth from Adam's side. She was different from Adam (female, not male), yet she was as fully human, fully partaking of humanness and its substance as Adam or Cain...yet still the beloved human other. Don't mean to imply the Holy Spirit is feminine...no though in Syrian is addressed with a feminine formation of the term for Spirit. In the Scriptures the Spirit and all Persons of the Holy Trinity are addressed as He. Somehow this inversely parallels the members of the Church who are half male and half female and yet as the Church are identified as Bride, a feminine appellation in relation to the Groom, Christ. Beyond this it gets very tangly, and dangerously so...suffice it to say he-ness and she-ness has some sort of theological content beyond the necessities of biology. Anyway, the last bit is my own cogitating...but the other is my present understanding of the basic Orthodox understanding of the relationship of communion to Being, either for God or for mankind as expressed by the Capadocian Fathers.  Bear in mind I may have made something of a muddle of it. But you can talk to a priest and read the book and reach your own conclusions. I found it helpful. You might too.

[wainscottbl]

Former Mormon here. I wish I could offer anything other than good luck. For me I was only in it for five years with my mom and sister, so leaving was not too bad. My mom was upset at first and did not come to my Catholic baptism--you'll have to be baptised again since while the Orthodox reconise baptism of most Trinitarian Christian religions, they do not the Mormons. But good thing, I think, is that they do baptism by immersion, which may make it easier from a Mormon viewpoint. I am looking into Orthodoxy form Mormonism now. Of course pouring like the Catholics do is valid but I know Mormons are one of those sects that really push immersion. I am sure the priest can explain all those things though. For you it seems the hardest thing to do it tell your family. Expect them to either be upset or angry at first but hopefully most of them will calm down. Hardest thing is going to to be your in laws it sounds like but just show a good example and try to avoid arguments. Best thing I have learned with my Mormon mother over the years is not to get to nasty about my problems with the Mormon Church and beliefs, but to try to explain the Catholic or Orthodox view in a way a Mormon can understand why it is that way. One good thing is Orthodox, unlike Roman Catholics, have infant baptism but do not have the same doctrine of original sin. They belief sin is inherited, but not guilt. Infants do not have the guilt of sin and are innocent. The big thing on infants and them having the guilt of Adam's sin came after Augustine in the West, I believe, at least at large. So that may help with the baptizing your children and infant child.

[wainscottbl]

PS....I still go up to the Mormon church sometimes with my mother for the dinners and stuff. It was the branch I left and the people mostly know me and they are really friendly. They were never nasty with me. In fact when I left they were trying to ease my problems with Mormonism. No one got nasty, but I can't promise that will be the case though I hope it goes as peaceful as possible. Have yourself prepared with your reasons and the stuff you have learned and be understanding of the Mormons belief, being firm but gentle, I guess. Pretty much have to let it go by hand. I know sometimes it can be hard leaving Mormonism for people. It is such a cultish religion. I realized that when I left.

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