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Author Topic: Liturgy of the Hours question(s)  (Read 697 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: November 01, 2013, 05:37:18 PM »

I know there are some older threads about the (RC version of the) Liturgy of the Hours but I thought I'd start a new fresh one.  Cool

I've been praying it off & on for many years, long before I became EC. And I still enjoy using it (privately, of course) for my morning and evening prayers.

I have tried the Eastern version and sometimes it's nice, but to be honest I really prefer the LOTH because of the multiple psalms at every hour. Unless I'm missing something, the Eastern version will only have one, and they'll pretty much repeat over the course of a couple of weeks.

One thing I recently started doing is incorporating the Troparia & Kontakia of the day into one of the (Western) Hours - usually the Morning. I'll either read them separately beforehand, or put them in after the Responsory and before the Intentions. Also like to read and reflect on the Epistle Reading and Gospel of the day, but may do that separately as well.

What do you think? I primarily want to make this a discussion among Catholics who have used both the Western and Eastern forms of the Hours, but of course welcome Orthodox input - after all, you're the ones I'm getting the Troparia & Kontakia from!  Grin

Also - do you stick to doing the same version of the Hours or do you occasionally switch and just do the Eastern version for a while, to get some variety?

And for those who have the opportunity, do you ever attend the Hours at a Monastery, and if so, which one(s)? My favorite is this one (they make great pumpkin bread too!  angel) : http://monasteryoftheangels.com/
« Last Edit: November 01, 2013, 05:38:50 PM by theistgal » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2013, 08:25:18 PM »

I know there are some older threads about the (RC version of the) Liturgy of the Hours but I thought I'd start a new fresh one.  Cool

I've been praying it off & on for many years, long before I became EC. And I still enjoy using it (privately, of course) for my morning and evening prayers.

I used it for a few years, without strictly following the calendar, towards the end of high school and the first half of college, and enjoyed it. 

Quote
I have tried the Eastern version and sometimes it's nice, but to be honest I really prefer the LOTH because of the multiple psalms at every hour. Unless I'm missing something, the Eastern version will only have one, and they'll pretty much repeat over the course of a couple of weeks.

If you are a geek, read Taft's book The Liturgy of the Hours in East and West.  The Roman Office has a different history and development from most of the Eastern Offices, even predating the various schisms, and this affects how each looks at and "does" liturgy.  The bulk of the former is psalmody; the only Eastern tradition that shares this property is the Coptic, and both were heavily influenced by monasticism.  The other Eastern traditions develop as "parish" or "cathedral" services but also have varying amounts of monastic influence, and one place this is seen is in their differing use of continuous psalmody. 

Quote
One thing I recently started doing is incorporating the Troparia & Kontakia of the day into one of the (Western) Hours - usually the Morning. I'll either read them separately beforehand, or put them in after the Responsory and before the Intentions. Also like to read and reflect on the Epistle Reading and Gospel of the day, but may do that separately as well.

What do you think? I primarily want to make this a discussion among Catholics who have used both the Western and Eastern forms of the Hours, but of course welcome Orthodox input - after all, you're the ones I'm getting the Troparia & Kontakia from!  Grin

My personal preference is to avoid this sort of "blending", but, assuming you're doing this on your own and not with some church group, it's your prayer time, so if it works for you, I don't see an issue with it. 

Quote
Also - do you stick to doing the same version of the Hours or do you occasionally switch and just do the Eastern version for a while, to get some variety?

When I used the Roman LotH, I stuck with it and didn't use anything else (except when actually at church, obviously).  After some time, I switched to the Syriac Office, and even now I don't use anything else.  If I want variety, I'll visit different churches, but at home I'm a purist.  But I will say I miss the modern Roman offices...I like the variable psalmody and how much more user friendly it is.   
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« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2013, 08:28:31 PM »

I have tried the Eastern version and sometimes it's nice, but to be honest I really prefer the LOTH because of the multiple psalms at every hour. Unless I'm missing something, the Eastern version will only have one, and they'll pretty much repeat over the course of a couple of weeks.

Hmm, the hours I've seen have three psalms per hour.
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« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2013, 09:00:28 PM »

I have tried the Eastern version and sometimes it's nice, but to be honest I really prefer the LOTH because of the multiple psalms at every hour. Unless I'm missing something, the Eastern version will only have one, and they'll pretty much repeat over the course of a couple of weeks.

Hmm, the hours I've seen have three psalms per hour.

Really? Perhaps you could tell me where to find them. I have the Jordanville Prayer Book, as well as receiving the e-version of the propers from Eastern Christian Publications, but only see Psalm 50 in the morning. Where are the other two supposed to be?
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« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2013, 09:05:40 PM »

I was kind of wondering the same thing. I used to pray the Hours when I was in the RCC. I would love to get into the habit of the Psalter.
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« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2013, 11:00:35 PM »

Interesting that this topic came up, because I was seriously considering buying the Byzantine version.
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« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2013, 11:52:51 PM »

Really? Perhaps you could tell me where to find them. I have the Jordanville Prayer Book, as well as receiving the e-version of the propers from Eastern Christian Publications, but only see Psalm 50 in the morning. Where are the other two supposed to be?

The Daily Cycle looks like this:

Vespers: Pslams 103, 140, 129, 116, plus 1 Kathisma
Compline: Psalms 50, 69, 142
Matins: Pslams 3, 37, 62, 87, 102, 142, plus 2 Kathisma, Pslam 50
First Hour: Psalms 5, 89, 100
Third Hour: Psalms 16, 24, 50
Sixth Hour: Psalms 53, 54, 90
Ninth Hour: Psalms 83, 84, 85


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« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2013, 12:02:29 AM »

Really? Perhaps you could tell me where to find them. I have the Jordanville Prayer Book, as well as receiving the e-version of the propers from Eastern Christian Publications, but only see Psalm 50 in the morning. Where are the other two supposed to be?

The Daily Cycle looks like this:

Vespers: Pslams 103, 140, 129, 116, plus 1 Kathisma
Compline: Psalms 50, 69, 142
Matins: Pslams 3, 37, 62, 87, 102, 142, plus 2 Kathisma, Pslam 50
First Hour: Psalms 5, 89, 100
Third Hour: Psalms 16, 24, 50
Sixth Hour: Psalms 53, 54, 90
Ninth Hour: Psalms 83, 84, 85




Where are you getting these, Deacon Lance? And how come they don't appear in any of my books?

But even with those I still think the RC LOTH goes through more of the Psalms over a year so there's more variation.

FWIW I am talking about use in private prayer. :-)
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« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2013, 12:17:57 AM »

Where are you getting these, Deacon Lance? And how come they don't appear in any of my books?

They won't appear in the Jordanville Prayer Book since it doesn't contain the daily offices; you'll find those services in the Horologion, and the psalms in their respective places in the services.

Quote
But even with those I still think the RC LOTH goes through more of the Psalms over a year so there's more variation.

Not exactly.  If you follow the schedule of kathismata, you'll get through the entire Psalter in one week, and twice a week in Lent.  With the modern LotH, you'll get through most of them in a month, but some are omitted entirely and others are given incomplete, due to some of the harsh language the Holy Spirit inspired in the Psalmist.  Tongue
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« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2013, 12:36:46 AM »

Ok, but not being a monastic perhaps that schedule is not for me. :-)
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« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2013, 12:45:39 AM »

Ok, but not being a monastic perhaps that schedule is not for me. :-)

I agree, which is why I like the LotH's four-week cycle, despite the fact that it's rather untraditional.  The question, as a layperson, is which is more important to you: to read the Psalter, or to pray the Hours?  If it's the latter, then I see no problem with the LotH (after a year of daily use, I had its Psalms and canticles memorised, so I recommend it for that if for nothing else).  If it's the former, however, I think reading the entire Psalter every week or two isn't an unreasonable goal. 
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« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2013, 01:00:01 PM »

Jordanville prayerbook doesn't have the hours (except the hours of Pascha). One prayerbook that does have them is the one published by New Rome press http://www.amazon.com/Orthodox-Prayer-Book-Michael-Monos/dp/1939028051/ref=sr_1_9?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1382362560&sr=1-9&keywords=orthodox+prayer+book
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« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2013, 02:01:59 PM »

Jordanville prayerbook doesn't have the hours (except the hours of Pascha). One prayerbook that does have them is the one published by New Rome press http://www.amazon.com/Orthodox-Prayer-Book-Michael-Monos/dp/1939028051/ref=sr_1_9?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1382362560&sr=1-9&keywords=orthodox+prayer+book

I've also found that the Old Orthodox Prayer Book is also wonderful to have if you want to pray the Eastern Hours. On the rare occasions that I pray Vespers or Matins, I just follow that and read the Kathismata for the day at the appointed times in the services which are listed. I just skip saying stichera since I don't have a Menaion. The prayer book also includes the daily Troparia, if you don't have access to the Troparia for the Saints of the day.
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« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2013, 02:05:53 PM »

What do you think? I primarily want to make this a discussion among Catholics who have used both the Western and Eastern forms of the Hours, but of course welcome Orthodox input - after all, you're the ones I'm getting the Troparia & Kontakia from!  Grin

Also - do you stick to doing the same version of the Hours or do you occasionally switch and just do the Eastern version for a while, to get some variety?

I'm not Roman Catholic, but I sometimes pray from the Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary. I love it and really should pray it more often.
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« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2013, 06:28:57 PM »

Thanks, Andrew. I was really hoping to get more input from others who use and like the RC LOTH rather than suggestions for how I can ditch them and become "more Eastern". Especially since I'm getting hammered on another forum right now for being "too Eastern" - eek!  Grin
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« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2013, 06:41:23 PM »

Thanks, Andrew. I was really hoping to get more input from others who use and like the RC LOTH rather than suggestions for how I can ditch them and become "more Eastern". Especially since I'm getting hammered on another forum right now for being "too Eastern" - eek!  Grin
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I'm still trying to figure out how Eastern to be.  Grin
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« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2013, 06:49:59 PM »

Thanks, Andrew. I was really hoping to get more input from others who use and like the RC LOTH rather than suggestions for how I can ditch them and become "more Eastern". Especially since I'm getting hammered on another forum right now for being "too Eastern" - eek!  Grin
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« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2013, 07:26:50 PM »

In the Antiochian Western Rite Vicariate, the normative prayer rule is the Benedictine breviary.

While the breviary/LOTH for monastics stretches into all hours of the nights, most of the faithful pray one or two offices a day. I say Lauds in the morning and Vespers before bed. Some people use Prime and Compline, which are both shorter.

Per the AWRV, I use the Monastic Diurnal (http://www.andrewespress.com/md.html) in consultation with our official Ordo (http://www.antiochian.org/content/ordo-2013-western-rite-liturgical-guide-now-available).
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« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2013, 11:19:12 PM »

In the Antiochian Western Rite Vicariate, the normative prayer rule is the Benedictine breviary.

While the breviary/LOTH for monastics stretches into all hours of the nights, most of the faithful pray one or two offices a day. I say Lauds in the morning and Vespers before bed. Some people use Prime and Compline, which are both shorter.

Per the AWRV, I use the Monastic Diurnal (http://www.andrewespress.com/md.html) in consultation with our official Ordo (http://www.antiochian.org/content/ordo-2013-western-rite-liturgical-guide-now-available).

That's interesting as I just stayed at a Benedictine monastery - thank you!
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