Author Topic: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?  (Read 3495 times)

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Offline hecma925

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #45 on: November 01, 2013, 02:32:46 PM »

 I wish they had monasteries for women. 

There are.
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Offline Arachne

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #46 on: November 01, 2013, 03:46:52 PM »

 I wish they had monasteries for women. 

There are.

It's a bit of a linguistic twist here. RC women's monasteries are called 'convents' or 'nunneries' (old-fashioned). Not knowing that we Orthodox call them all 'monasteries' (from the Greek μονή, literally 'dwelling') is excusable for a newcomer. :)
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Offline Papist

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #47 on: November 01, 2013, 05:58:17 PM »
I agree with IoannC...

because the victim is always a child,

RC bishops here do not agree.
dude, what is it with you? You know that married men sexually abuse at a higher rate than priests, right?

Chairman of RC Polish Episcopate Conference said in an interview children drag priests into pedophilia.

Regardless of what some idiotic thing this person may have said, you seem to make comments like this a lot.
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Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #48 on: November 08, 2013, 02:24:17 PM »
The power relationships between adult and child are never, ever equal. Sex between an adult and a child is ALWAYS wrong. The term Inter-generational sex is, as has already been pointed out, NewSpeak at it's very worst and most dangerous.

And where were these gems found? In the Guardian.

Underage in my understanding either refers to a legal definition, of being under the age of consent (to sex) or a clumsy way of saying 'child'.

The power relationships between any two people are never, ever equal.
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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #49 on: November 09, 2013, 09:12:51 AM »
Read the original post and thought someone had, clinically speaking, flipped their lid.

A more concerning implication in the thread further on is the notion of this perversion becoming viewed as a 'sexual orientation', indeed as another contributor has noted this might carry some difficult legal implications.

Yes, any temptation is not a sin in itself but entertaining it, to phantasise on it or act upon such an impulse would. As to the last Our Saviour's own word's could not be clearer, "Better a millstone be tied round their neck....."


Oh man, don't say this or a few posters on here will accuse youof wanting to drown homosexuals.

Although, I get what you are saying. ;)
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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #50 on: November 09, 2013, 09:15:46 AM »

Whatever you call it, giving a grown man a blessing to legally bed a 12-year-old is wrong.



+1,000


And if the 12-year-old can't refuse to marry, then there's no 'equal' or consent going on at all.  It's rape.

As the father and grandfather of girls, and having been involved in teams addressing child protection issues I know it is both morally wrong and a great evil with dreadful consequences. In societies were this disparity in age is not uncommon the death of pregnant girls whose bodies are not ready is too frequent and their suffering appalling. It is plainly wrong, as is the bedding of any child, boy or girl, by any adult, male or female. Nor is the emotional and psychological trauma to be underestimated.

Children's childhood is short enough, and they need to be allowed to mature physically and emotionally, as well as intellectually.


What a great post! You are a real credit to your church.
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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #51 on: November 09, 2013, 09:29:58 AM »
I agree with IoannC...

because the victim is always a child,

RC bishops here do not agree.
Are you making this as a blanket statement that all RC in Poland agree with that?

Or just one idiot that should be punished for making such a ludicrous statement.

You should qualify your statements first before calumnizing people.
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Offline mike

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #52 on: November 09, 2013, 09:33:48 AM »
I agree with IoannC...

because the victim is always a child,

RC bishops here do not agree.
Are you making this as a blanket statement that all RC in Poland agree with that?

Or just one idiot that should be punished for making such a ludicrous statement.

You should qualify your statements first before calumnizing people.

One idiot means top Polish RC bishop. He was not suspended, he did not resign. And there were several fellow idiots who defended him. Including another one bishop and a handful of priests. RCC in Poland is committing massive seppuku at the moment. I can't say I feel sorry.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 09:37:30 AM by Michał Kalina »

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #53 on: November 09, 2013, 09:42:35 AM »
I agree with IoannC...

because the victim is always a child,

RC bishops here do not agree.
Are you making this as a blanket statement that all RC in Poland agree with that?

Or just one idiot that should be punished for making such a ludicrous statement.

You should qualify your statements first before calumnizing people.

One idiot means top Polish RC bishop. He was not suspended, he did not resign. And there were several fellow idiots who defended him. Including another one bishop and a handful of priests. RCC in Poland is committing massive seppuku at the moment. I can't say I feel sorry.
Well it's no suprise really, it's indictive of the post-VII concilar Church these days.

Meanwhile the pope chides us about not being "judgmental" towards homosexuals. ::)
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Offline mike

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #54 on: November 09, 2013, 09:47:01 AM »
Meanwhile the pope chides us about not being "judgmental" towards homosexuals. ::)

I am talking about pedophilia, not homosexualism.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #55 on: November 09, 2013, 09:55:51 AM »
Meanwhile the pope chides us about not being "judgmental" towards homosexuals. ::)

I am talking about pedophilia, not homosexualism.
The abusing priests in all the pedo scandals were overwhelmingly homosexual.

This is not a coincidence, espcially since the Church became "light" on the sodomy issue years ago.

That's when these wolves began enetering the seminaries.
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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #56 on: November 09, 2013, 10:01:12 AM »
Meanwhile the pope chides us about not being "judgmental" towards homosexuals. ::)

I am talking about pedophilia, not homosexualism.
The abusing priests in all the pedo scandals were overwhelmingly homosexual.

This is not a coincidence, espcially since the Church became "light" on the sodomy issue years ago.

That's when these wolves began enetering the seminaries.

Pedophile priests were probably as much of a problem in the RCC 100/200/300 years ago. The difference is that nowadays many victims aren't afraid to talk about it.
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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #57 on: November 09, 2013, 10:24:30 AM »
Meanwhile the pope chides us about not being "judgmental" towards homosexuals. ::)

I am talking about pedophilia, not homosexualism.
The abusing priests in all the pedo scandals were overwhelmingly homosexual.

This is not a coincidence, espcially since the Church became "light" on the sodomy issue years ago.

That's when these wolves began enetering the seminaries.

Pedophile priests were probably as much of a problem in the RCC 100/200/300 years ago. The difference is that nowadays many victims aren't afraid to talk about it.
Probably some truth to that, although I wouldn't use the phrase "as much" but I believe there was much more accountability back then and no bishop would ever dare make the statements like that idiot in Poland did.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #58 on: November 09, 2013, 12:16:10 PM »
Yes, any temptation is not a sin in itself but entertaining it, to phantasise on it or act upon such an impulse would. As to the last Our Saviour's own word's could not be clearer, "Better a millstone be tied round their neck....."

Oh man, don't say this or a few posters on here will accuse youof wanting to drown homosexuals.

Although, I get what you are saying. ;)

What's important is not to get what Santagranddad is saying, but what Jesus is saying.  I have no reason to believe Santagranddad is confused about the latter.  On the other hand...  ;)
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Offline Math lover

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #59 on: November 10, 2013, 05:42:01 PM »
I am waiting to see when the atheist West will classify incest as a sexual orientation and call all those classifying it as "bigots" like they do for sodomites and the likes...
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 05:42:29 PM by Math lover »

Offline mike

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #60 on: November 10, 2013, 05:44:33 PM »
I am waiting to see when the atheist West will classify incest as a sexual orientation and call all those classifying it as "bigots" like they do for sodomites and the likes...

I thought incest was Arabic tradition.

Offline Math lover

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #61 on: November 10, 2013, 07:58:24 PM »
I am waiting to see when the atheist West will classify incest as a sexual orientation and call all those classifying it as "bigots" like they do for sodomites and the likes...

I thought incest was Arabic tradition.

WTH? Who said Arabs practice incest? Marrying your cousin is not considered incest (AFAIK, even the OT doesn't ban it).
I wouldn't be surprised if I see some folks here claiming that Muslims eat babies at breakfast, given the number of ignorant stuff said about us...

Offline hecma925

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #62 on: November 10, 2013, 10:06:25 PM »
Not incest, but pedophilia is rather widespread.  In Iraq and Afghanistan anyway.
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Offline sheenj

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #63 on: November 10, 2013, 10:14:09 PM »
I am waiting to see when the atheist West will classify incest as a sexual orientation and call all those classifying it as "bigots" like they do for sodomites and the likes...

I thought incest was Arabic tradition.

WTH? Who said Arabs practice incest? Marrying your cousin is not considered incest (AFAIK, even the OT doesn't ban it).
I wouldn't be surprised if I see some folks here claiming that Muslims eat babies at breakfast, given the number of ignorant stuff said about us...

In the west, 1st cousin marriage is considered incest and is illegal in some places.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 10:25:41 PM by sheenj »

Offline Math lover

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #64 on: November 10, 2013, 10:33:39 PM »
I am waiting to see when the atheist West will classify incest as a sexual orientation and call all those classifying it as "bigots" like they do for sodomites and the likes...

I thought incest was Arabic tradition.

WTH? Who said Arabs practice incest? Marrying your cousin is not considered incest (AFAIK, even the OT doesn't ban it).
I wouldn't be surprised if I see some folks here claiming that Muslims eat babies at breakfast, given the number of ignorant stuff said about us...

In the west, 1st cousin marriage is considered incest and is illegal in some places.

Doesn't the OT allow 1st cousin marriage?

Offline hecma925

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #65 on: November 10, 2013, 10:35:17 PM »

Doesn't the OT allow 1st cousin marriage?


Explicitly allow it?  No.

Did it happen?  Yes.
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Offline brastaseptim

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #66 on: November 10, 2013, 11:01:52 PM »

Chairman of RC Polish Episcopate Conference said in an interview children drag priests into pedophilia.

[/quote]

Yes, because the child is asking, even forcing them to molest them.  ::)
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 11:03:07 PM by brastaseptim »
BBC news certified; The Guardian rejected; OC.net approved.

Offline mike

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #67 on: November 11, 2013, 07:59:36 AM »
Marrying your cousin is not considered incest

Keep deluding yourself.

Offline Math lover

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #68 on: November 11, 2013, 09:21:33 AM »

Doesn't the OT allow 1st cousin marriage?


Explicitly allow it?  No.

Did it happen?  Yes.

But the OT doesn't forbid it.

Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #69 on: November 11, 2013, 09:56:41 AM »
I am waiting to see when the atheist West will classify incest as a sexual orientation and call all those classifying it as "bigots" like they do for sodomites and the likes...

I thought incest was Arabic tradition.

WTH? Who said Arabs practice incest? Marrying your cousin is not considered incest (AFAIK, even the OT doesn't ban it).
I wouldn't be surprised if I see some folks here claiming that Muslims eat babies at breakfast, given the number of ignorant stuff said about us...

Math lover: Go down to Current status in this article and you will see that first cousin marriage is legal more places than it is not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage -

In the OT Jacob married his cousins Leah and Rachel, daughters of his mother's brother Laban. The bible doesn't forbid sexual relations between cousins, but it does prohibit such with several other close relatives.

Added with edit:
For your information Math lover: Prohibited marriages in the Orthodox Church: http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2013/03/prohibited-marriages-in-orthodox-church.html
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 10:30:06 AM by Riddikulus »
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Offline primuspilus

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #70 on: November 11, 2013, 10:25:10 AM »
IMHO its not specifically wrong, but more of a cultural taboo here in the US...I dont think its inherently wrong, but umm....heck no...no thanks...blech!

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Offline hecma925

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #71 on: November 11, 2013, 11:29:05 AM »

Doesn't the OT allow 1st cousin marriage?


Explicitly allow it?  No.

Did it happen?  Yes.

But the OT doesn't forbid it.

That wasn't your question.  OTOH, Islam does allow first cousin marriages.
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Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #72 on: November 11, 2013, 12:44:35 PM »

Doesn't the OT allow 1st cousin marriage?


Explicitly allow it?  No.

Did it happen?  Yes.

But the OT doesn't forbid it.

That wasn't your question.  OTOH, Islam does allow first cousin marriages.

You will find Christianity does, too.
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Offline hecma925

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #73 on: November 11, 2013, 01:04:31 PM »

You will find Christianity does, too.
If you are considering every denomination, then yes, I'd agree with you.
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Offline Math lover

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #74 on: November 11, 2013, 02:29:04 PM »
Middle-Eastern Christians do marry first cousins, including in Lebanon when there is no civil marriage.

Offline Gorazd

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #75 on: November 11, 2013, 02:45:02 PM »
So let's say it is a sexual orientation, would that make any difference to Orthodoxy? Frankly, not at all.

We are not supposed to act upon every urge of our nature. After all, it is a fallen nature. Some people feel attracted to the same sex, or feel an urge to commit adultery. The urge is there, but with Christ's help, we can refuse to act upon such an urge.

Let's not forget that whether something is a "disorder" or a "sexual orientation" in psychology pretty much depends on the way society views it. That is how homosexuality stopped being a "disorder". And if pedophilia gets declassified (and honestly, it probably will sooner or later... after all, Islam keeps getting more influential, and Muhammad and Aisha...), it will be just the same. So all I can say is that we should hold fast to Patristic view.

Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #76 on: November 11, 2013, 03:14:16 PM »
According to the American Psychiatric Association, - "Pedophilic disorder criteria remain unchanged from DSM-IV, but the disorder name is revised from pedophilia to pedophilic disorder." http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2012/12/02/final-dsm-5-approved-by-american-psychiatric-association/

Further: DSM-5 states: "Characteristics of Paraphilic Disorders"

Most people with atypical sexual interests do not have a mental disorder. To be diagnosed with a paraphilic disorder, DSM-5 requires that people with these interests:

• feel personal distress about their interest, not merely distress resulting from society’s disapproval;

or

• have a sexual desire or behavior that involves another person’s psychological distress, injury, or death, or a desire for sexual behaviors involving unwilling persons or persons unable to give legal consent. "

http://www.dsm5.org/Documents/Paraphilic%20Disorders%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf - The rest of the DSM-5 article is worth a read.

Therefore, it doesn't appear that pedophilia has changed from being classified as a paraphilic disorder to a sexual orientation, but has received a new title.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 03:15:02 PM by Riddikulus »
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Offline shreek

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #77 on: November 11, 2013, 08:28:49 PM »
Marrying your cousin is not considered incest

Keep deluding yourself.

in the church there is no law per se banning marriage between cousins.
even the Orthodox which bans it, it's mostly canonical tradition rather than Doctrine.
Most Orthodox in the Middle East marry cousins, many (Greek) Orthodox do as well.


Offline shreek

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #78 on: November 11, 2013, 08:33:52 PM »
Meanwhile the pope chides us about not being "judgmental" towards homosexuals. ::)

The church position on Homosexuality is clear.

The abusing priests in all the pedo scandals were overwhelmingly homosexual.


pedophilia is sexual attraction to pre-pubescant boys (or girls) not to consenting adult males (homosexuality).


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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #79 on: November 11, 2013, 08:35:06 PM »
Marrying your cousin is not considered incest

Keep deluding yourself.

in the church there is no law per se banning marriage between cousins.

It is.  In my yearbook at least.

Offline Shiny

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #80 on: November 11, 2013, 10:05:05 PM »
Marrying your cousin is not considered incest

Keep deluding yourself.
Well I think its not in West Virgina, Kentucky, states in the south, etc.
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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #81 on: November 12, 2013, 02:42:01 AM »
Marrying your cousin is not considered incest

Keep deluding yourself.

in the church there is no law per se banning marriage between cousins.
even the Orthodox which bans it, it's mostly canonical tradition rather than Doctrine.
Most Orthodox in the Middle East marry cousins, many (Greek) Orthodox do as well.


Sergei Rachmaninoff married his own cousin, though I have to say that the Russian Orthodox Church didn't permit this marriage, which was one of the problems that caused him to fall into a deep depression (in addition to the failure of his first symphony).
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 02:44:20 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #82 on: November 12, 2013, 07:59:44 AM »
Marrying your cousin is not considered incest

Keep deluding yourself.
Well I think its not in West Virgina, Kentucky, states in the south, etc.
West Virginia only. Everywhere else it is not only looked down upon, but illegal.

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #83 on: November 12, 2013, 08:18:54 AM »
This should clear things up as far as the US anyway:
State Laws Regarding Marriages Between First Cousins
 
http://www.ncsl.org/research/human-services/state-laws-regarding-marriages-between-first-cousi.aspx

First cousin marriage is illegal in West Virginia.
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Offline brightmorningstar

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #84 on: December 10, 2013, 03:18:36 PM »
In fact, despite there having been a great deal of research looking to discover the cause of same sex attraction, there is still no consensus of scientific agreement as to its cause (APA) genetics or otherwise.
That there doesnt seem to have been proportionately much research looking for the cause of any sexual desire, and pretty obvious from the research there is it has been specifically looking to prove same-sex attraction is innate and immutable, one wonders why societies have swallowed the deception so wholeheartedly. Perhaps it has much also to do with name calling, accusation and ridiculing anyone who voices criticism.
 
However thats the case. If a cause does exist for same sex attraction it seems certian it would exist for other sexual desires.

 

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #85 on: December 10, 2013, 03:59:27 PM »
In fact, despite there having been a great deal of research looking to discover the cause of same sex attraction, there is still no consensus of scientific agreement as to its cause (APA) genetics or otherwise.
That there doesnt seem to have been proportionately much research looking for the cause of any sexual desire, and pretty obvious from the research there is it has been specifically looking to prove same-sex attraction is innate and immutable, one wonders why societies have swallowed the deception so wholeheartedly. Perhaps it has much also to do with name calling, accusation and ridiculing anyone who voices criticism.
 
However thats the case. If a cause does exist for same sex attraction it seems certian it would exist for other sexual desires.

 

The obsession with the cause of homosexuality says more about the debate than whatever anyone says about the cause of homosexuality.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #86 on: December 10, 2013, 04:35:24 PM »
In fact, despite there having been a great deal of research looking to discover the cause of same sex attraction, there is still no consensus of scientific agreement as to its cause (APA) genetics or otherwise.
That there doesnt seem to have been proportionately much research looking for the cause of any sexual desire, and pretty obvious from the research there is it has been specifically looking to prove same-sex attraction is innate and immutable, one wonders why societies have swallowed the deception so wholeheartedly. Perhaps it has much also to do with name calling, accusation and ridiculing anyone who voices criticism.
 
However thats the case. If a cause does exist for same sex attraction it seems certian it would exist for other sexual desires.

 

The obsession with the cause of homosexuality says more about the debate than whatever anyone says about the cause of homosexuality.
Isn't that the standard practice of Etiology and Epidemiology?
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth