Author Topic: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?  (Read 3849 times)

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Offline Dpaula

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Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« on: October 31, 2013, 01:32:13 PM »
Someone with more in depth knowledge must tell me this is not true and I'm misinterpreting the whole thing. Please tell me this is a hoax!

http://www.charismanews.com/us/41571-pedophilia-officially-classified-as-sexual-orientation-by-american-psychology-association

Quote
According to the American Family Association, a shocking announcement made by the American Psychiatric Association (APA) in its latest edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders caused an uproar among pro-family organizations and many others, as the APA states it now classifies pedophilia as a sexual orientation or preference instead of a disorder.
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Offline mike

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2013, 01:33:57 PM »
It is a hoax.
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Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2013, 01:40:47 PM »
That would be quite disturbing, though, unfortunately, not surprising.  American culture gets more and more sexually deranged.  I hope Michael is right and this is a hoax.  Would be a truly sick, twisted hoax at that.
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Offline Dpaula

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2013, 01:51:05 PM »
Misinformation it is.

Here's what it really says.

http://www.dsm5.org/Documents/Paraphilic%20Disorders%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf

Quote
In the case of pedophilic disorder, the notable detail is what wasn’t revised in the new manual. Although proposals were discussed throughout the DSM-5 development process, diagnostic criteria ultimately remained the same as in DSM-IV TR. Only the disorder name will be changed from pedophilia to pedophilic disorder to maintain consistency with the chapter’s other listings.
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2013, 01:51:49 PM »
Well, it was a 'sexual orientation' in pre-Christian Greece.

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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2013, 01:52:24 PM »
Well, it was a 'sexual orientation' in pre-Christian Greece.

Not really. It was bound by strict rules, most cities banned it outright, and everyone was supposed to be married (back in the day marriages were solely between men and women).
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 01:53:31 PM by Cyrillic »
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Offline Dpaula

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2013, 01:58:02 PM »
It gets even better. They are blaming their PR firm for the misunderstanding.


http://www.charismanews.com/us/41597-pedophilia-not-classified-as-sexual-orientation-afa-mistaken

Quote
The AFA’s Cindy Roberts told Charisma News that its public relations firm, Hamilton Strategies, conducted the initial research on its claim. The PR firm has not responded to our requests for more information.

I'm just happy its' not true!
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Offline Tallitot

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2013, 02:01:00 PM »
Totally untrue. And I work in a hospital and reviewed the recent changes to the DSM.
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Offline IoanC

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2013, 02:01:05 PM »
I see two components to this. To say that it is a sexual orientation may be a truth. However, the practicing of it would be absolutely wrong. Which means that pedophilia is an illness that needs to be treated, not condemned. Legally, pedophilia is a very serious crime against children and society, and is strictly forbidden and punished. Question is what do we mean by a "sexual orientation". Do we mean that it is a personal sexual preference, or do we also imply that it is acceptable? That it is "just" another orientation among "others"?

Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2013, 07:11:36 PM »
If it would ever get designated a sexual orientation in America, there would be legal implications.  In the Equal Opportunity 'disclaimer,' (I can't remember what this is actually called) it says you can't discriminate based on many factors--gender, race, nationality, age, etc.

It also now says 'sexual orientation.'  In designating pederasty a sexual orientation, it confers a certain degree of legitimacy, which is why I think everyone would rightfully be up in arms about that.  The legal implication is that if they ever designated pederasty as a sexual orientation, you would now not be allowed to refuse to hire or to rent to a pedophile. 

So they have to register as sex offenders, but you can't refuse them a job or an apartment?  Yeah, this would definitely have to be a hoax, even without checking it out.
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Offline WPM

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2013, 07:29:07 PM »
They're (pedophiles) are classified as sex offenders under criminal law.

Offline Shiny

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2013, 07:48:05 PM »
PA is passing a law banning pregnant belly touching.

I hope they put it under "Pedophilia" for the lulz.
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2013, 07:52:12 PM »
I thought this thread was going to be about how groups recruit college students into being pedophiles the way the gays do.

Oh well.
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Offline Santagranddad

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2013, 07:52:22 PM »
Read the original post and thought someone had, clinically speaking, flipped their lid.

A more concerning implication in the thread further on is the notion of this perversion becoming viewed as a 'sexual orientation', indeed as another contributor has noted this might carry some difficult legal implications.

Yes, any temptation is not a sin in itself but entertaining it, to phantasise on it or act upon such an impulse would. As to the last Our Saviour's own word's could not be clearer, "Better a millstone be tied round their neck....."



Offline orthonorm

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2013, 07:54:57 PM »
Read the original post and thought someone had, clinically speaking, flipped their lid.

A more concerning implication in the thread further on is the notion of this perversion becoming viewed as a 'sexual orientation', indeed as another contributor has noted this might carry some difficult legal implications.

Yes, any temptation is not a sin in itself but entertaining it, to phantasise on it or act upon such an impulse would. As to the last Our Saviour's own word's could not be clearer, "Better a millstone be tied round their neck....."

You know you set me up for a retort that would certainly get me banned if I said it?

Nice try!
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Offline Gunnarr

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2013, 05:15:30 AM »
Well I guess speaking truthfully it is a sexual orientation if you use the words as it is
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Offline IoanC

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2013, 05:31:31 AM »
According to something else I read about this, it's classified as an orientation if it's not "consumed" and an illness if "the relationship" is "consumed". And, it's an orientation because it cannot be changed through any known means -- that's the definition.

This could mean two things. 1) It's an illness that should not be condemned, but treated; and the practicing of it is strongly denied. 2) It is ok to have the orientation as long as you don't practice it. Not sure which one it's actually the one we are dealing with.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2013, 05:32:53 AM by IoanC »


Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2013, 06:58:14 AM »
According to something else I read about this, it's classified as an orientation if it's not "consumed" and an illness if "the relationship" is "consumed". And, it's an orientation because it cannot be changed through any known means -- that's the definition.

This could mean two things. 1) It's an illness that should not be condemned, but treated; and the practicing of it is strongly denied. 2) It is ok to have the orientation as long as you don't practice it. Not sure which one it's actually the one we are dealing with.


Actually, it's 'consummated,' not 'consumed.'  'Consumed' would mean eaten or used up, exhausted as a resource.

We can treat those afflicted and still condemn pedophilia.  And we should, imo, because the victim is always a child, and that's an immeasurable amount of fear and psychological damage that's done, each and every time.  It's as though we're afraid to condemn things anymore.  We're not supposed to judge sinners--we're not God.  But we were never supposed to stop judging sin.  
« Last Edit: November 01, 2013, 06:59:53 AM by newtoorthodoxy »
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Offline IoanC

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2013, 07:09:46 AM »
According to something else I read about this, it's classified as an orientation if it's not "consumed" and an illness if "the relationship" is "consumed". And, it's an orientation because it cannot be changed through any known means -- that's the definition.

This could mean two things. 1) It's an illness that should not be condemned, but treated; and the practicing of it is strongly denied. 2) It is ok to have the orientation as long as you don't practice it. Not sure which one it's actually the one we are dealing with.


Actually, it's 'consummated,' not 'consumed.'  'Consumed' would mean eaten or used up, exhausted as a resource.

We can treat those afflicted and still condemn pedophilia.  And we should, imo, because the victim is always a child, and that's an immeasurable amount of fear and psychological damage that's done, each and every time.  It's as though we're afraid to condemn things anymore.  We're not supposed to judge sinners--we're not God.  But we were never supposed to stop judging sin.  

Good observation, my brain glitched and was sort of in Romanian mode when I used "consumed". Yes, pedophilia should be condemned because it is evil and immoral. But we can't expect this of science because it is the job of The Church. Science should just give us the facts and stop producing ideologies and determining what is good and what is evil. But see, science is adrift because it cut itself off from religion, and perhaps in part due to religion ignoring or undermining science.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2013, 07:13:00 AM by IoanC »

Offline Dpaula

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2013, 07:27:23 AM »


 Science should just give us the facts and stop producing ideologies and determining what is good and what is evil.

Awesome point!
+1
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Offline Santagranddad

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2013, 07:53:08 AM »


 Science should just give us the facts and stop producing ideologies and determining what is good and what is evil.

Awesome point!
+1

+2

This is were what is presented as science is actually philosophy.

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2013, 09:09:17 AM »


 Science should just give us the facts and stop producing ideologies and determining what is good and what is evil.

Awesome point!
+1

+2

This is were what is presented as science is actually philosophy.

Science has philosophical assumptions.
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Offline IoanC

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2013, 09:42:29 AM »


 Science should just give us the facts and stop producing ideologies and determining what is good and what is evil.

Awesome point!
+1

+2

This is were what is presented as science is actually philosophy.

Science has philosophical assumptions.

Yet, science has to somehow prove them through scientific means. There is nothing wrong with philosophy, in fact it is very necessary. But, philosophy is largely missing as a valid field nowadays or is mixed together with science so that you don't know which is which. Actually, people can't seem to be able to discern between the two anymore = bad!
« Last Edit: November 01, 2013, 09:43:07 AM by IoanC »

Offline Fabio Leite

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2013, 09:45:31 AM »
"Just a change in name" - Newspeak at its best.

Some consequences:
Naming someone a pedophile will no longer be an accurate description. Pedophilia is now officially just a curse word. Advocates will respond saying that there is no such a thing as pedophiles, just pedophilics and "adults who engage in intergenerational love are not obsessive or aggressive, therefore no pedophilics". Calling someone a pedophile or a group or congress as advocating pedophilia will be liable to moral abuse trials.

Some of the previous chapters on this long run to legalize pedophilia:

UNICEF claims children have right to confidential sex services
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/unicef-claims-children-have-right-to-confidential-sex-services

Meet the academics who are trying to redefine pedophilia as ‘intergenerational intimacy’
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/meet-the-academics-who-are-trying-to-redefine-pedophilia-as-intergeneration

Pedophiles want same rights as homosexuals
http://www.greeleygazette.com/press/?p=11517

Paedophilia: bringing dark desires to light
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/jan/03/paedophilia-bringing-dark-desires-light

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Offline Santagranddad

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2013, 09:46:49 AM »


 Science should just give us the facts and stop producing ideologies and determining what is good and what is evil.

Awesome point!
+1

+2

This is were what is presented as science is actually philosophy.

Science has philosophical assumptions.

Yet, science has to somehow prove them through scientific means. There is nothing wrong with philosophy, in fact it is very necessary. But, philosophy is largely missing as a valid field nowadays or is mixed together with science so that you don't know which is which. Actually, people can't seem to be able to discern between the two anymore = bad!

On your point about the mixing, confusing or transposing of scientific or philosophical concepts, I agree with you.

As to the wicked attempt to confuse and confound our long held abhorrence of adults having sex with children, the term inter-generational love is a pathetic and devious attempt to cover wrong doing. Contemptible.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2013, 09:51:45 AM by Santagranddad »

Offline mike

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2013, 09:58:48 AM »
I agree with IoannC...

because the victim is always a child,

RC bishops here do not agree.
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Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2013, 10:07:27 AM »
"Just a change in name" - Newspeak at its best.

Some consequences:
Naming someone a pedophile will no longer be an accurate description. Pedophilia is now officially just a curse word. Advocates will respond saying that there is no such a thing as pedophiles, just pedophilics and "adults who engage in intergenerational love are not obsessive or aggressive, therefore no pedophilics". Calling someone a pedophile or a group or congress as advocating pedophilia will be liable to moral abuse trials.

Some of the previous chapters on this long run to legalize pedophilia:

UNICEF claims children have right to confidential sex services
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/unicef-claims-children-have-right-to-confidential-sex-services

Meet the academics who are trying to redefine pedophilia as ‘intergenerational intimacy’
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/meet-the-academics-who-are-trying-to-redefine-pedophilia-as-intergeneration

Pedophiles want same rights as homosexuals
http://www.greeleygazette.com/press/?p=11517

Paedophilia: bringing dark desires to light
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/jan/03/paedophilia-bringing-dark-desires-light



That's beyond foul.  It's stuff like this that makes me wonder what God's waiting for. 
Some of my questions might appear patently stupid to those well-versed in Orthodoxy, but I'm brand new, having no background in the faith.  Please grant me a great deal of patience and consideration as I learn the basics.

Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2013, 10:08:09 AM »
I agree with IoannC...

because the victim is always a child,

RC bishops here do not agree.

I think I'm confused.  They think when an adult rapes a child, the adult is the victim?
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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2013, 10:14:54 AM »
Paedophilia (and its first cousin, ephebophilia) was acceptable practice for many centuries.* What else would you call marrying off underage girls to men old enough to be their grandfathers?


*In some places and cultures, it still is, but our focus here is the Christianised First World.
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Offline mike

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2013, 10:18:26 AM »
I think I'm confused.  They think when an adult rapes a child, the adult is the victim?

Sort of. I do not understand it either.

http://wyborcza.pl/1,75478,14742202.html

Paedophilia (and its first cousin, ephebophilia) was acceptable practice for many centuries.* What else would you call marrying off underage girls to men old enough to be their grandfathers?


*In some places and cultures, it still is, but our focus here is the Christianised First World.

Define "underage".
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Offline Santagranddad

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2013, 10:20:13 AM »
The power relationships between adult and child are never, ever equal. Sex between an adult and a child is ALWAYS wrong. The term Inter-generational sex is, as has already been pointed out, NewSpeak at it's very worst and most dangerous.

And where were these gems found? In the Guardian.

Underage in my understanding either refers to a legal definition, of being under the age of consent (to sex) or a clumsy way of saying 'child'.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2013, 10:23:58 AM by Santagranddad »

Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2013, 10:23:02 AM »
The power relationships between adult and child are never, ever equal. Sex between an adult and a child is ALWAYS wrong. The term Inter-generational sex is, as has already been pointed out, NewSpeak at it's very worst and most dangerous.

And where were these gems found? In the Guardian.

+486


I see stuff more and more that just sends me off the rails.  This issue is just another one.  I wish they had monasteries for women.  Really, we couldn't get much worse if we started running naked in the streets, eating babies. 
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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #33 on: November 01, 2013, 10:24:06 AM »
Paedophilia (and its first cousin, ephebophilia) was acceptable practice for many centuries.* What else would you call marrying off underage girls to men old enough to be their grandfathers?


*In some places and cultures, it still is, but our focus here is the Christianised First World.

Define "underage".

Throughout the Middle Ages, the onset of menstruation definitely marked a girl as marriageable. That, of course, can vary widely between girls and locations (the warmer the climate, the earlier the event comes), but there are plenty of documented cases of 10-12-year-old brides.
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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #34 on: November 01, 2013, 10:25:58 AM »
Paedophilia (and its first cousin, ephebophilia) was acceptable practice for many centuries.* What else would you call marrying off underage girls to men old enough to be their grandfathers?


*In some places and cultures, it still is, but our focus here is the Christianised First World.

Define "underage".

Throughout the Middle Ages, the onset of menstruation definitely marked a girl as marriageable. That, of course, can vary widely between girls and locations (the warmer the climate, the earlier the event comes), but there are plenty of documented cases of 10-12-year-old brides.

That's wy calling it pedophilia might be mistaken.
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Offline Arachne

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #35 on: November 01, 2013, 10:30:01 AM »
Paedophilia (and its first cousin, ephebophilia) was acceptable practice for many centuries.* What else would you call marrying off underage girls to men old enough to be their grandfathers?


*In some places and cultures, it still is, but our focus here is the Christianised First World.

Define "underage".

Throughout the Middle Ages, the onset of menstruation definitely marked a girl as marriageable. That, of course, can vary widely between girls and locations (the warmer the climate, the earlier the event comes), but there are plenty of documented cases of 10-12-year-old brides.

That's wy calling it pedophilia might be mistaken.

Whatever you call it, giving a grown man a blessing to legally bed a 12-year-old is wrong.
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Offline mike

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #36 on: November 01, 2013, 10:35:03 AM »
Paedophilia (and its first cousin, ephebophilia) was acceptable practice for many centuries.* What else would you call marrying off underage girls to men old enough to be their grandfathers?


*In some places and cultures, it still is, but our focus here is the Christianised First World.

Define "underage".

Throughout the Middle Ages, the onset of menstruation definitely marked a girl as marriageable. That, of course, can vary widely between girls and locations (the warmer the climate, the earlier the event comes), but there are plenty of documented cases of 10-12-year-old brides.

That's wy calling it pedophilia might be mistaken.

Whatever you call it, giving a grown man a blessing to legally bed a 12-year-old is wrong.

Wrong - probably. Like 60-year-old marrying 25s.

But maybe not evil.
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Offline newtoorthodoxy

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #37 on: November 01, 2013, 10:41:29 AM »

Whatever you call it, giving a grown man a blessing to legally bed a 12-year-old is wrong.



+1,000


And if the 12-year-old can't refuse to marry, then there's no 'equal' or consent going on at all.  It's rape.
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Offline Arachne

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #38 on: November 01, 2013, 10:47:30 AM »
Paedophilia (and its first cousin, ephebophilia) was acceptable practice for many centuries.* What else would you call marrying off underage girls to men old enough to be their grandfathers?


*In some places and cultures, it still is, but our focus here is the Christianised First World.

Define "underage".

Throughout the Middle Ages, the onset of menstruation definitely marked a girl as marriageable. That, of course, can vary widely between girls and locations (the warmer the climate, the earlier the event comes), but there are plenty of documented cases of 10-12-year-old brides.

That's wy calling it pedophilia might be mistaken.

Whatever you call it, giving a grown man a blessing to legally bed a 12-year-old is wrong.

Wrong - probably. Like 60-year-old marrying 25s.

But maybe not evil.

I don't know - Morgan Freeman and Anthony Hopkins were 60 when I was 25, and I wouldn't have refused to marry either of them. ;)
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Offline Santagranddad

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #39 on: November 01, 2013, 10:52:59 AM »

Whatever you call it, giving a grown man a blessing to legally bed a 12-year-old is wrong.



+1,000


And if the 12-year-old can't refuse to marry, then there's no 'equal' or consent going on at all.  It's rape.

As the father and grandfather of girls, and having been involved in teams addressing child protection issues I know it is both morally wrong and a great evil with dreadful consequences. In societies were this disparity in age is not uncommon the death of pregnant girls whose bodies are not ready is too frequent and their suffering appalling. It is plainly wrong, as is the bedding of any child, boy or girl, by any adult, male or female. Nor is the emotional and psychological trauma to be underestimated.

Children's childhood is short enough, and they need to be allowed to mature physically and emotionally, as well as intellectually.


Offline Papist

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #40 on: November 01, 2013, 11:37:07 AM »
I agree with IoannC...

because the victim is always a child,

RC bishops here do not agree.
dude, what is it with you? You know that married men sexually abuse at a higher rate than priests, right?
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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #41 on: November 01, 2013, 11:44:50 AM »
I agree with IoannC...

because the victim is always a child,

RC bishops here do not agree.
dude, what is it with you? You know that married men sexually abuse at a higher rate than priests, right?

Chairman of RC Polish Episcopate Conference said in an interview children drag priests into pedophilia.
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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #42 on: November 01, 2013, 11:51:30 AM »
I agree with IoannC...

because the victim is always a child,

RC bishops here do not agree.
dude, what is it with you? You know that married men sexually abuse at a higher rate than priests, right?

Chairman of RC Polish Episcopate Conference said in an interview children drag priests into pedophilia.

Victim-blaming is standard procedure in all kinds of rape. ::)
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Offline Fabio Leite

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #43 on: November 01, 2013, 12:39:36 PM »
I think the age of the youngest side is what matters most. A 25 who wants to have a relationship with a 60-something is a young adult, but an adult already. In that case, I believe, it's more likely the 20-something will hurt the feelings of the 60-something than the other way round.

A 21 with and 11 would be a much smaller gap and still it is obviously an entirely different thing and it's very clear who will hurt who.


I don't know - Morgan Freeman and Anthony Hopkins were 60 when I was 25, and I wouldn't have refused to marry either of them. ;)
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Offline Santagranddad

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #44 on: November 01, 2013, 01:14:48 PM »
I agree with IoannC...

because the victim is always a child,

RC bishops here do not agree.
dude, what is it with you? You know that married men sexually abuse at a higher rate than priests, right?

Chairman of RC Polish Episcopate Conference said in an interview children drag priests into pedophilia.


Any adult that ventures that argument is deeply in denial. All one says to a child crossing a line is, no. The Chairman needs to have a serious period of self examination. Pathetic.

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #45 on: November 01, 2013, 02:32:46 PM »

 I wish they had monasteries for women. 

There are.
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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #46 on: November 01, 2013, 03:46:52 PM »

 I wish they had monasteries for women. 

There are.

It's a bit of a linguistic twist here. RC women's monasteries are called 'convents' or 'nunneries' (old-fashioned). Not knowing that we Orthodox call them all 'monasteries' (from the Greek μονή, literally 'dwelling') is excusable for a newcomer. :)
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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #47 on: November 01, 2013, 05:58:17 PM »
I agree with IoannC...

because the victim is always a child,

RC bishops here do not agree.
dude, what is it with you? You know that married men sexually abuse at a higher rate than priests, right?

Chairman of RC Polish Episcopate Conference said in an interview children drag priests into pedophilia.

Regardless of what some idiotic thing this person may have said, you seem to make comments like this a lot.
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Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #48 on: November 08, 2013, 02:24:17 PM »
The power relationships between adult and child are never, ever equal. Sex between an adult and a child is ALWAYS wrong. The term Inter-generational sex is, as has already been pointed out, NewSpeak at it's very worst and most dangerous.

And where were these gems found? In the Guardian.

Underage in my understanding either refers to a legal definition, of being under the age of consent (to sex) or a clumsy way of saying 'child'.

The power relationships between any two people are never, ever equal.
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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #49 on: November 09, 2013, 09:12:51 AM »
Read the original post and thought someone had, clinically speaking, flipped their lid.

A more concerning implication in the thread further on is the notion of this perversion becoming viewed as a 'sexual orientation', indeed as another contributor has noted this might carry some difficult legal implications.

Yes, any temptation is not a sin in itself but entertaining it, to phantasise on it or act upon such an impulse would. As to the last Our Saviour's own word's could not be clearer, "Better a millstone be tied round their neck....."


Oh man, don't say this or a few posters on here will accuse youof wanting to drown homosexuals.

Although, I get what you are saying. ;)
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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #50 on: November 09, 2013, 09:15:46 AM »

Whatever you call it, giving a grown man a blessing to legally bed a 12-year-old is wrong.



+1,000


And if the 12-year-old can't refuse to marry, then there's no 'equal' or consent going on at all.  It's rape.

As the father and grandfather of girls, and having been involved in teams addressing child protection issues I know it is both morally wrong and a great evil with dreadful consequences. In societies were this disparity in age is not uncommon the death of pregnant girls whose bodies are not ready is too frequent and their suffering appalling. It is plainly wrong, as is the bedding of any child, boy or girl, by any adult, male or female. Nor is the emotional and psychological trauma to be underestimated.

Children's childhood is short enough, and they need to be allowed to mature physically and emotionally, as well as intellectually.


What a great post! You are a real credit to your church.
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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #51 on: November 09, 2013, 09:29:58 AM »
I agree with IoannC...

because the victim is always a child,

RC bishops here do not agree.
Are you making this as a blanket statement that all RC in Poland agree with that?

Or just one idiot that should be punished for making such a ludicrous statement.

You should qualify your statements first before calumnizing people.
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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #52 on: November 09, 2013, 09:33:48 AM »
I agree with IoannC...

because the victim is always a child,

RC bishops here do not agree.
Are you making this as a blanket statement that all RC in Poland agree with that?

Or just one idiot that should be punished for making such a ludicrous statement.

You should qualify your statements first before calumnizing people.

One idiot means top Polish RC bishop. He was not suspended, he did not resign. And there were several fellow idiots who defended him. Including another one bishop and a handful of priests. RCC in Poland is committing massive seppuku at the moment. I can't say I feel sorry.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 09:37:30 AM by Michał Kalina »
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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #53 on: November 09, 2013, 09:42:35 AM »
I agree with IoannC...

because the victim is always a child,

RC bishops here do not agree.
Are you making this as a blanket statement that all RC in Poland agree with that?

Or just one idiot that should be punished for making such a ludicrous statement.

You should qualify your statements first before calumnizing people.

One idiot means top Polish RC bishop. He was not suspended, he did not resign. And there were several fellow idiots who defended him. Including another one bishop and a handful of priests. RCC in Poland is committing massive seppuku at the moment. I can't say I feel sorry.
Well it's no suprise really, it's indictive of the post-VII concilar Church these days.

Meanwhile the pope chides us about not being "judgmental" towards homosexuals. ::)
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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #54 on: November 09, 2013, 09:47:01 AM »
Meanwhile the pope chides us about not being "judgmental" towards homosexuals. ::)

I am talking about pedophilia, not homosexualism.
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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #55 on: November 09, 2013, 09:55:51 AM »
Meanwhile the pope chides us about not being "judgmental" towards homosexuals. ::)

I am talking about pedophilia, not homosexualism.
The abusing priests in all the pedo scandals were overwhelmingly homosexual.

This is not a coincidence, espcially since the Church became "light" on the sodomy issue years ago.

That's when these wolves began enetering the seminaries.
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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #56 on: November 09, 2013, 10:01:12 AM »
Meanwhile the pope chides us about not being "judgmental" towards homosexuals. ::)

I am talking about pedophilia, not homosexualism.
The abusing priests in all the pedo scandals were overwhelmingly homosexual.

This is not a coincidence, espcially since the Church became "light" on the sodomy issue years ago.

That's when these wolves began enetering the seminaries.

Pedophile priests were probably as much of a problem in the RCC 100/200/300 years ago. The difference is that nowadays many victims aren't afraid to talk about it.
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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #57 on: November 09, 2013, 10:24:30 AM »
Meanwhile the pope chides us about not being "judgmental" towards homosexuals. ::)

I am talking about pedophilia, not homosexualism.
The abusing priests in all the pedo scandals were overwhelmingly homosexual.

This is not a coincidence, espcially since the Church became "light" on the sodomy issue years ago.

That's when these wolves began enetering the seminaries.

Pedophile priests were probably as much of a problem in the RCC 100/200/300 years ago. The difference is that nowadays many victims aren't afraid to talk about it.
Probably some truth to that, although I wouldn't use the phrase "as much" but I believe there was much more accountability back then and no bishop would ever dare make the statements like that idiot in Poland did.
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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #58 on: November 09, 2013, 12:16:10 PM »
Yes, any temptation is not a sin in itself but entertaining it, to phantasise on it or act upon such an impulse would. As to the last Our Saviour's own word's could not be clearer, "Better a millstone be tied round their neck....."

Oh man, don't say this or a few posters on here will accuse youof wanting to drown homosexuals.

Although, I get what you are saying. ;)

What's important is not to get what Santagranddad is saying, but what Jesus is saying.  I have no reason to believe Santagranddad is confused about the latter.  On the other hand...  ;)
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Offline Math lover

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #59 on: November 10, 2013, 05:42:01 PM »
I am waiting to see when the atheist West will classify incest as a sexual orientation and call all those classifying it as "bigots" like they do for sodomites and the likes...
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 05:42:29 PM by Math lover »

Offline mike

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #60 on: November 10, 2013, 05:44:33 PM »
I am waiting to see when the atheist West will classify incest as a sexual orientation and call all those classifying it as "bigots" like they do for sodomites and the likes...

I thought incest was Arabic tradition.
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Offline Math lover

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #61 on: November 10, 2013, 07:58:24 PM »
I am waiting to see when the atheist West will classify incest as a sexual orientation and call all those classifying it as "bigots" like they do for sodomites and the likes...

I thought incest was Arabic tradition.

WTH? Who said Arabs practice incest? Marrying your cousin is not considered incest (AFAIK, even the OT doesn't ban it).
I wouldn't be surprised if I see some folks here claiming that Muslims eat babies at breakfast, given the number of ignorant stuff said about us...

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #62 on: November 10, 2013, 10:06:25 PM »
Not incest, but pedophilia is rather widespread.  In Iraq and Afghanistan anyway.
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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #63 on: November 10, 2013, 10:14:09 PM »
I am waiting to see when the atheist West will classify incest as a sexual orientation and call all those classifying it as "bigots" like they do for sodomites and the likes...

I thought incest was Arabic tradition.

WTH? Who said Arabs practice incest? Marrying your cousin is not considered incest (AFAIK, even the OT doesn't ban it).
I wouldn't be surprised if I see some folks here claiming that Muslims eat babies at breakfast, given the number of ignorant stuff said about us...

In the west, 1st cousin marriage is considered incest and is illegal in some places.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 10:25:41 PM by sheenj »

Offline Math lover

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #64 on: November 10, 2013, 10:33:39 PM »
I am waiting to see when the atheist West will classify incest as a sexual orientation and call all those classifying it as "bigots" like they do for sodomites and the likes...

I thought incest was Arabic tradition.

WTH? Who said Arabs practice incest? Marrying your cousin is not considered incest (AFAIK, even the OT doesn't ban it).
I wouldn't be surprised if I see some folks here claiming that Muslims eat babies at breakfast, given the number of ignorant stuff said about us...

In the west, 1st cousin marriage is considered incest and is illegal in some places.

Doesn't the OT allow 1st cousin marriage?

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #65 on: November 10, 2013, 10:35:17 PM »

Doesn't the OT allow 1st cousin marriage?


Explicitly allow it?  No.

Did it happen?  Yes.
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Offline brastaseptim

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #66 on: November 10, 2013, 11:01:52 PM »

Chairman of RC Polish Episcopate Conference said in an interview children drag priests into pedophilia.

[/quote]

Yes, because the child is asking, even forcing them to molest them.  ::)
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 11:03:07 PM by brastaseptim »
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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #67 on: November 11, 2013, 07:59:36 AM »
Marrying your cousin is not considered incest

Keep deluding yourself.
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Offline Math lover

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #68 on: November 11, 2013, 09:21:33 AM »

Doesn't the OT allow 1st cousin marriage?


Explicitly allow it?  No.

Did it happen?  Yes.

But the OT doesn't forbid it.

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #69 on: November 11, 2013, 09:56:41 AM »
I am waiting to see when the atheist West will classify incest as a sexual orientation and call all those classifying it as "bigots" like they do for sodomites and the likes...

I thought incest was Arabic tradition.

WTH? Who said Arabs practice incest? Marrying your cousin is not considered incest (AFAIK, even the OT doesn't ban it).
I wouldn't be surprised if I see some folks here claiming that Muslims eat babies at breakfast, given the number of ignorant stuff said about us...

Math lover: Go down to Current status in this article and you will see that first cousin marriage is legal more places than it is not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage -

In the OT Jacob married his cousins Leah and Rachel, daughters of his mother's brother Laban. The bible doesn't forbid sexual relations between cousins, but it does prohibit such with several other close relatives.

Added with edit:
For your information Math lover: Prohibited marriages in the Orthodox Church: http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2013/03/prohibited-marriages-in-orthodox-church.html
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 10:30:06 AM by Riddikulus »
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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #70 on: November 11, 2013, 10:25:10 AM »
IMHO its not specifically wrong, but more of a cultural taboo here in the US...I dont think its inherently wrong, but umm....heck no...no thanks...blech!

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #71 on: November 11, 2013, 11:29:05 AM »

Doesn't the OT allow 1st cousin marriage?


Explicitly allow it?  No.

Did it happen?  Yes.

But the OT doesn't forbid it.

That wasn't your question.  OTOH, Islam does allow first cousin marriages.
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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #72 on: November 11, 2013, 12:44:35 PM »

Doesn't the OT allow 1st cousin marriage?


Explicitly allow it?  No.

Did it happen?  Yes.

But the OT doesn't forbid it.

That wasn't your question.  OTOH, Islam does allow first cousin marriages.

You will find Christianity does, too.
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Offline hecma925

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #73 on: November 11, 2013, 01:04:31 PM »

You will find Christianity does, too.
If you are considering every denomination, then yes, I'd agree with you.
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Offline Math lover

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #74 on: November 11, 2013, 02:29:04 PM »
Middle-Eastern Christians do marry first cousins, including in Lebanon when there is no civil marriage.

Offline Gorazd

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #75 on: November 11, 2013, 02:45:02 PM »
So let's say it is a sexual orientation, would that make any difference to Orthodoxy? Frankly, not at all.

We are not supposed to act upon every urge of our nature. After all, it is a fallen nature. Some people feel attracted to the same sex, or feel an urge to commit adultery. The urge is there, but with Christ's help, we can refuse to act upon such an urge.

Let's not forget that whether something is a "disorder" or a "sexual orientation" in psychology pretty much depends on the way society views it. That is how homosexuality stopped being a "disorder". And if pedophilia gets declassified (and honestly, it probably will sooner or later... after all, Islam keeps getting more influential, and Muhammad and Aisha...), it will be just the same. So all I can say is that we should hold fast to Patristic view.

Offline Riddikulus

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #76 on: November 11, 2013, 03:14:16 PM »
According to the American Psychiatric Association, - "Pedophilic disorder criteria remain unchanged from DSM-IV, but the disorder name is revised from pedophilia to pedophilic disorder." http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2012/12/02/final-dsm-5-approved-by-american-psychiatric-association/

Further: DSM-5 states: "Characteristics of Paraphilic Disorders"

Most people with atypical sexual interests do not have a mental disorder. To be diagnosed with a paraphilic disorder, DSM-5 requires that people with these interests:

• feel personal distress about their interest, not merely distress resulting from society’s disapproval;

or

• have a sexual desire or behavior that involves another person’s psychological distress, injury, or death, or a desire for sexual behaviors involving unwilling persons or persons unable to give legal consent. "

http://www.dsm5.org/Documents/Paraphilic%20Disorders%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf - The rest of the DSM-5 article is worth a read.

Therefore, it doesn't appear that pedophilia has changed from being classified as a paraphilic disorder to a sexual orientation, but has received a new title.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 03:15:02 PM by Riddikulus »
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Offline shreek

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #77 on: November 11, 2013, 08:28:49 PM »
Marrying your cousin is not considered incest

Keep deluding yourself.

in the church there is no law per se banning marriage between cousins.
even the Orthodox which bans it, it's mostly canonical tradition rather than Doctrine.
Most Orthodox in the Middle East marry cousins, many (Greek) Orthodox do as well.


Offline shreek

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #78 on: November 11, 2013, 08:33:52 PM »
Meanwhile the pope chides us about not being "judgmental" towards homosexuals. ::)

The church position on Homosexuality is clear.

The abusing priests in all the pedo scandals were overwhelmingly homosexual.


pedophilia is sexual attraction to pre-pubescant boys (or girls) not to consenting adult males (homosexuality).


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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #79 on: November 11, 2013, 08:35:06 PM »
Marrying your cousin is not considered incest

Keep deluding yourself.

in the church there is no law per se banning marriage between cousins.

It is.  In my yearbook at least.
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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #80 on: November 11, 2013, 10:05:05 PM »
Marrying your cousin is not considered incest

Keep deluding yourself.
Well I think its not in West Virgina, Kentucky, states in the south, etc.
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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #81 on: November 12, 2013, 02:42:01 AM »
Marrying your cousin is not considered incest

Keep deluding yourself.

in the church there is no law per se banning marriage between cousins.
even the Orthodox which bans it, it's mostly canonical tradition rather than Doctrine.
Most Orthodox in the Middle East marry cousins, many (Greek) Orthodox do as well.


Sergei Rachmaninoff married his own cousin, though I have to say that the Russian Orthodox Church didn't permit this marriage, which was one of the problems that caused him to fall into a deep depression (in addition to the failure of his first symphony).
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 02:44:20 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #82 on: November 12, 2013, 07:59:44 AM »
Marrying your cousin is not considered incest

Keep deluding yourself.
Well I think its not in West Virgina, Kentucky, states in the south, etc.
West Virginia only. Everywhere else it is not only looked down upon, but illegal.

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Offline hecma925

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #83 on: November 12, 2013, 08:18:54 AM »
This should clear things up as far as the US anyway:
State Laws Regarding Marriages Between First Cousins
 
http://www.ncsl.org/research/human-services/state-laws-regarding-marriages-between-first-cousi.aspx

First cousin marriage is illegal in West Virginia.
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Offline brightmorningstar

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #84 on: December 10, 2013, 03:18:36 PM »
In fact, despite there having been a great deal of research looking to discover the cause of same sex attraction, there is still no consensus of scientific agreement as to its cause (APA) genetics or otherwise.
That there doesnt seem to have been proportionately much research looking for the cause of any sexual desire, and pretty obvious from the research there is it has been specifically looking to prove same-sex attraction is innate and immutable, one wonders why societies have swallowed the deception so wholeheartedly. Perhaps it has much also to do with name calling, accusation and ridiculing anyone who voices criticism.
 
However thats the case. If a cause does exist for same sex attraction it seems certian it would exist for other sexual desires.

 

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #85 on: December 10, 2013, 03:59:27 PM »
In fact, despite there having been a great deal of research looking to discover the cause of same sex attraction, there is still no consensus of scientific agreement as to its cause (APA) genetics or otherwise.
That there doesnt seem to have been proportionately much research looking for the cause of any sexual desire, and pretty obvious from the research there is it has been specifically looking to prove same-sex attraction is innate and immutable, one wonders why societies have swallowed the deception so wholeheartedly. Perhaps it has much also to do with name calling, accusation and ridiculing anyone who voices criticism.
 
However thats the case. If a cause does exist for same sex attraction it seems certian it would exist for other sexual desires.

 

The obsession with the cause of homosexuality says more about the debate than whatever anyone says about the cause of homosexuality.
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Re: Pedophilia- Sexual Orientation?!?
« Reply #86 on: December 10, 2013, 04:35:24 PM »
In fact, despite there having been a great deal of research looking to discover the cause of same sex attraction, there is still no consensus of scientific agreement as to its cause (APA) genetics or otherwise.
That there doesnt seem to have been proportionately much research looking for the cause of any sexual desire, and pretty obvious from the research there is it has been specifically looking to prove same-sex attraction is innate and immutable, one wonders why societies have swallowed the deception so wholeheartedly. Perhaps it has much also to do with name calling, accusation and ridiculing anyone who voices criticism.
 
However thats the case. If a cause does exist for same sex attraction it seems certian it would exist for other sexual desires.

 

The obsession with the cause of homosexuality says more about the debate than whatever anyone says about the cause of homosexuality.
Isn't that the standard practice of Etiology and Epidemiology?
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