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Author Topic: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?  (Read 17636 times) Average Rating: 5
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« Reply #90 on: October 31, 2013, 12:07:08 PM »

This is the last thing I'll say regarding scholars and choice. Poppy, if Islam feels good for you then move forward with it. As I said I go with what feels right for me. The day came when Islam was no longer compatible with who Rebecca is and wants to be. Maybe this day won't come for you, and I never thought it would ever happen to me either but here we are. If you imam tells you and explains to you certain things that don't sit well with you then it is on you to find a way to swallow it or search again. I'm around if you ever want to shoot me questions in PM.
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« Reply #91 on: October 31, 2013, 12:09:39 PM »

Poppy has grown up! Where is the lo0l?

I don't know how anyone can read Islamic texts without being well versed in Arabic. Surely you would run into problems.
That's why Muslims serious about their deen learn Arabic. Arabic is not that difficult to learn. The pronunciation sucks but the rest is ok.

....ok my pronunciation sucks.

Poppy,

I learned Arabic. I was a Salafi manhaj following woman until I learned and read the Quran and Hadith in Arabic...borderline extremist. I hope you do learn Arabic as well and see where it takes you on this journey.

Salafis...my favorite people  Lips Sealed

I  find it hard to look back on myself and those years, and what I blindly followed thinking my Imam knew more than what my heart told me felt wrong. Mina...I see you enjoy salafists, LOL.
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« Reply #92 on: October 31, 2013, 12:18:06 PM »

Poppy has grown up! Where is the lo0l?

I don't know how anyone can read Islamic texts without being well versed in Arabic. Surely you would run into problems.
That's why Muslims serious about their deen learn Arabic. Arabic is not that difficult to learn. The pronunciation sucks but the rest is ok.

....ok my pronunciation sucks.

Poppy,

I learned Arabic. I was a Salafi manhaj following woman until I learned and read the Quran and Hadith in Arabic...borderline extremist. I hope you do learn Arabic as well and see where it takes you on this journey.

I already read the Qur'an in Arabic and can speak it and understand just fine. Just that my pronunciation of  ع  غ is totally messed up.

In sha'Allah, i'm trying to get it corrected now with constant recitation/correction of سورة الفاتحة until it's perfected.


Borderline extremist who fell in love with a kaffir? That seems contradictory.
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« Reply #93 on: October 31, 2013, 12:21:01 PM »

Poppy, have you read the biography of Muhammed by Ibn Ishaq? What are your thoughts about it?
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« Reply #94 on: October 31, 2013, 12:24:50 PM »

This is the last thing I'll say regarding scholars and choice. Poppy, if Islam feels good for you then move forward with it. As I said I go with what feels right for me. The day came when Islam was no longer compatible with who Rebecca is and wants to be. Maybe this day won't come for you, and I never thought it would ever happen to me either but here we are. If you imam tells you and explains to you certain things that don't sit well with you then it is on you to find a way to swallow it or search again. I'm around if you ever want to shoot me questions in PM.

It's nothing to do with what feels good. I have never been led by my emotions, it's too dangerous and can lead to all kinds of fitna and haram.

One day you might feel like Christianity don't sit well with you and where will you be then uh? It's about haqq, that's ultimately all i'm interested in.
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« Reply #95 on: October 31, 2013, 12:25:57 PM »

Poppy has grown up! Where is the lo0l?

I don't know how anyone can read Islamic texts without being well versed in Arabic. Surely you would run into problems.
That's why Muslims serious about their deen learn Arabic. Arabic is not that difficult to learn. The pronunciation sucks but the rest is ok.

....ok my pronunciation sucks.

Poppy,

I learned Arabic. I was a Salafi manhaj following woman until I learned and read the Quran and Hadith in Arabic...borderline extremist. I hope you do learn Arabic as well and see where it takes you on this journey.

I already read the Qur'an in Arabic and can speak it and understand just fine. Just that my pronunciation of  ع  غ is totally messed up.

In sha'Allah, i'm trying to get it corrected now with constant recitation/correction of سورة الفاتحة until it's perfected.


Borderline extremist who fell in love with a kaffir? That seems contradictory.

Ever hear the phrase love knows no boundaries? I have no need to explain anything except to say that yes, I fell in love with a Coptic man while in Egypt, while Muslim, while wearing  and abaya. Kind of like how it was illegal for blacks and whites to marry 150yr ago...it still happened, just on the hush.

And he is a kaffir to you; not me and probably not anyone else on the boards. This is OC.net, not Islamicity.com.
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« Reply #96 on: October 31, 2013, 12:27:44 PM »

This is the last thing I'll say regarding scholars and choice. Poppy, if Islam feels good for you then move forward with it. As I said I go with what feels right for me. The day came when Islam was no longer compatible with who Rebecca is and wants to be. Maybe this day won't come for you, and I never thought it would ever happen to me either but here we are. If you imam tells you and explains to you certain things that don't sit well with you then it is on you to find a way to swallow it or search again. I'm around if you ever want to shoot me questions in PM.

It's nothing to do with what feels good. I have never been led by my emotions, it's too dangerous and can lead to all kinds of fitna and haram.

One day you might feel like Christianity don't sit well with you and where will you be then uh? It's about haqq, that's ultimately all i'm interested in.

If that day comes, I move on as well. Islam says you can't save one another from hell so it doesn't matter what I do really as lon as you are doing you. If you came back to argue this you will eventually get warned or banned....I can feel it.
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« Reply #97 on: October 31, 2013, 12:30:31 PM »

Poppy, have you read the biography of Muhammed by Ibn Ishaq? What are your thoughts about it?

Alhamdulillah, I loved it!

Did you read about when the Prophet, salahu 3lehi wassallem, had this bloke, an enemy,who left nasty rubbish on his doorstep every day (or week - I forget) for a long time this went on? The Prophet didn't get alarmed or kick off or react badly to this man. Then one day it stopped (yea I think it was daily) and so the Prophet became concerned and went over to the man's house where he found him sick. The Prophet visited him and was so kind to him that the man reverted to Islam eventually.

Ma sha'Allah, the accounts are amazing.
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« Reply #98 on: October 31, 2013, 12:30:49 PM »

A few years ago I found this podcast called Traces of Aramaic Christianity in the Qu'ran. It's a talk by a Semitic scholar, Prof. Andrew Hayes, which I found interesting and think should be relevant for both Christians and Muslims. It deals with the earthly sources of the Qu'ran.
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« Reply #99 on: October 31, 2013, 12:35:06 PM »

Poppy has grown up! Where is the lo0l?

I don't know how anyone can read Islamic texts without being well versed in Arabic. Surely you would run into problems.
That's why Muslims serious about their deen learn Arabic. Arabic is not that difficult to learn. The pronunciation sucks but the rest is ok.

....ok my pronunciation sucks.

Poppy,

I learned Arabic. I was a Salafi manhaj following woman until I learned and read the Quran and Hadith in Arabic...borderline extremist. I hope you do learn Arabic as well and see where it takes you on this journey.

I already read the Qur'an in Arabic and can speak it and understand just fine. Just that my pronunciation of  ع  غ is totally messed up.

In sha'Allah, i'm trying to get it corrected now with constant recitation/correction of سورة الفاتحة until it's perfected.


Borderline extremist who fell in love with a kaffir? That seems contradictory.

Ever hear the phrase love knows no boundaries? I have no need to explain anything except to say that yes, I fell in love with a Coptic man while in Egypt, while Muslim, while wearing  and abaya. Kind of like how it was illegal for blacks and whites to marry 150yr ago...it still happened, just on the hush.

And he is a kaffir to you; not me and probably not anyone else on the boards. This is OC.net, not Islamicity.com.

I meant,he was a kaffir to you at that time.

I won't get banned for arguing in favour of Christianity, which is what I was doing. Basically saying to you that you need to stay committed to Christianity by your will, not with your feelings.
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« Reply #100 on: October 31, 2013, 12:39:13 PM »

Poppy, have you read the biography of Muhammed by Ibn Ishaq? What are your thoughts about it?

Alhamdulillah, I loved it!

I kind of liked it too but I had exactly the opposite reaction as it made me even more convinced that Islam is not my cup of tea. No offence but IMHO Muhammed didn't seem like a prophet but more like an usurper.

Oh well. To each his/her own. I still have a sort of academic interest in Islam and Muslims and I also admire various outer aspects of Islamic culture.
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« Reply #101 on: October 31, 2013, 12:40:11 PM »

Poppy has grown up! Where is the lo0l?

I don't know how anyone can read Islamic texts without being well versed in Arabic. Surely you would run into problems.
That's why Muslims serious about their deen learn Arabic. Arabic is not that difficult to learn. The pronunciation sucks but the rest is ok.

....ok my pronunciation sucks.

Poppy,

I learned Arabic. I was a Salafi manhaj following woman until I learned and read the Quran and Hadith in Arabic...borderline extremist. I hope you do learn Arabic as well and see where it takes you on this journey.

I already read the Qur'an in Arabic and can speak it and understand just fine. Just that my pronunciation of  ع  غ is totally messed up.

In sha'Allah, i'm trying to get it corrected now with constant recitation/correction of سورة الفاتحة until it's perfected.


Borderline extremist who fell in love with a kaffir? That seems contradictory.

Ever hear the phrase love knows no boundaries? I have no need to explain anything except to say that yes, I fell in love with a Coptic man while in Egypt, while Muslim, while wearing  and abaya. Kind of like how it was illegal for blacks and whites to marry 150yr ago...it still happened, just on the hush.

And he is a kaffir to you; not me and probably not anyone else on the boards. This is OC.net, not Islamicity.com.

I meant,he was a kaffir to you at that time.

I won't get banned for arguing in favour of Christianity, which is what I was doing. Basically saying to you that you need to stay committed to Christianity by your will, not with your feelings.


I will stay committed to whatever faith I have until it makes me begin to feel spiritually as if I am dying. If Christianity ever does this to me, I will leave just as I left Islam. You're new to Islam. I'm an old, jaded, been there done that woman. Let the shine wear off and report back, because statistics say over half of all converts leave after less than 5yr.
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« Reply #102 on: October 31, 2013, 12:49:14 PM »

Dear Poppy,

I congratulate you for learning the Arabic language.  It's beauty probably enhanced your reading of the Quran and helped you convert.  I guess we all cannot jump to conclusions to criticize or convert until we all learn Arabic and read the Quran in Arabic.

Allah yi bariklik ya okhti.

Mina, a fellow Arabic-speaking akh

wa feek mina

I remember you from when I was here a couple years ago.

Yea, it is a beautiful language.

Logically, how do you accept that God has a partner/co equal ?
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« Reply #103 on: October 31, 2013, 12:51:38 PM »

Poppy, have you read the biography of Muhammed by Ibn Ishaq? What are your thoughts about it?

Alhamdulillah, I loved it!

I kind of liked it too but I had exactly the opposite reaction as it made me even more convinced that Islam is not my cup of tea. No offence but IMHO Muhammed didn't seem like a prophet but more like an usurper.

Are you cradle Orthodox? I can't remember even if I ever asked you before.
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« Reply #104 on: October 31, 2013, 12:51:42 PM »

It deals with the earthly sources of the Qu'ran.

The non-earthly sources for the Qu'ran must be infernal sources, I suppose.


Smiley
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« Reply #105 on: October 31, 2013, 12:54:29 PM »

It deals with the earthly sources of the Qu'ran.

The non-earthly sources for the Qu'ran must be infernal sources, I suppose  Wink

In that case the demon who helped Muhammad was definitely the dumbest! He mistook Miriam, the daughter of Amram and sister of Aaron, for Yeshua's mother!  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #106 on: October 31, 2013, 12:57:40 PM »

Poppy, have you read the biography of Muhammed by Ibn Ishaq? What are your thoughts about it?

Alhamdulillah, I loved it!

I kind of liked it too but I had exactly the opposite reaction as it made me even more convinced that Islam is not my cup of tea. No offence but IMHO Muhammed didn't seem like a prophet but more like an usurper.

Are you cradle Orthodox? I can't remember even if I ever asked you before.

Nope. I grew up in a Pentecostal family.
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« Reply #107 on: October 31, 2013, 12:58:31 PM »

because you said you speak Arabic, maybe you understand it better in Arabic
حتي تستطيعي فهم الاسلام بشكل كامل و صحيح,, لابد ان تكوني علي دراية باللغة العربية بشكل تام
لان النسخة المترجمة من كل الكتب الاسلامية ,, غير مكتملة و غير دقيقة
لذلك الاسلام لدي غير المتحدثين باللغة العربية مختلف تماماً ,, عن الاسلام الحقيقي الموجود في الدول ذات الاغلبية المسلم
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« Reply #108 on: October 31, 2013, 12:59:03 PM »

Logically, how do you accept that God has a partner/co equal ?


Logic?  Who said anything about logic?  Human logic and comprehension of an invisible deity don't match up.  
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« Reply #109 on: October 31, 2013, 01:00:14 PM »

because you said you speak Arabic, maybe you understand it better in Arabic
حتي تستطيعي فهم الاسلام بشكل كامل و صحيح,, لابد ان تكوني علي دراية باللغة العربية بشكل تام
لان النسخة المترجمة من كل الكتب الاسلامية ,, غير مكتملة و غير دقيقة
لذلك الاسلام لدي غير المتحدثين باللغة العربية مختلف تماماً ,, عن الاسلام الحقيقي الموجود في الدول ذات الاغلبية المسلم

Can you put up a translation? I'd Google it but I'm lazy.
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« Reply #110 on: October 31, 2013, 01:02:03 PM »

Logically, how do you accept that God has a partner/co equal ?


Logic?  Who said anything about logic?  Human logic and comprehension of an invisible deity don't match up.  

Actually, do not fall for his logical fallacies! He's just asked u a loaded question.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #111 on: October 31, 2013, 01:02:45 PM »

Logically, how do you accept that God has a partner/co equal ?


Logic?  Who said anything about logic?  Human logic and comprehension of an invisible deity don't match up.  

Actually, do not fall for his logical fallacies! He's just asked u a loaded question.  Roll Eyes

I know. Wink
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« Reply #112 on: October 31, 2013, 01:05:08 PM »

This is the last thing I'll say regarding scholars and choice. Poppy, if Islam feels good for you then move forward with it. As I said I go with what feels right for me. The day came when Islam was no longer compatible with who Rebecca is and wants to be. Maybe this day won't come for you, and I never thought it would ever happen to me either but here we are. If you imam tells you and explains to you certain things that don't sit well with you then it is on you to find a way to swallow it or search again. I'm around if you ever want to shoot me questions in PM.

It's nothing to do with what feels good. I have never been led by my emotions, it's too dangerous and can lead to all kinds of fitna and haram.

One day you might feel like Christianity don't sit well with you and where will you be then uh? It's about haqq, that's ultimately all i'm interested in.

If that day comes, I move on as well. Islam says you can't save one another from hell so it doesn't matter what I do really as lon as you are doing you. If you came back to argue this you will eventually get warned or banned....I can feel it.

Anyway that's a rli fatalistic approach to have, that one Christian cannot alter the course of another person's life and to back your truism up with a unreferenced half-quote from a ideology you don't believe in any more is way weird, could be seen by some as disingenuous..... you feeling that?

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« Reply #113 on: October 31, 2013, 01:06:10 PM »


I should add that it is not just this point. It is also whether you trust Muhammad over all of the Prophets and God's Christ. Islam is a religion entirely centered on Muhammad. It claims to follow in the footsteps of the other prophets, but it's laws, theology and practice all derive from Muhammad's life and teachings...

Except for Hayaa' ala al-Khair al-'Amal...

I'd have to say that I find it centered on Allah, subhana wa ta 3la, and that it's not whether you trust the Prophet, salallahu 3lehi wasallam, but instead, if you trust God to guide you to the straight path.

The study of the life of the Prophet and the related teachings are not fardh but sunnah.

It is trusting the Prophet, because it all depends on whether he is truly a prophet or not. It's not an issue of whether Jesus is God, it's an issue of whether you believe Muhammad is a prophet. Jesus being God stems from an acceptance of Judaic thought of some sort first. Something Islam rejects.

Can you tell me why Umar ibn al-Khattab deleted the Hayaa ala al-Khair al-'Amal from the Azan? And why he made up from thin air a 'Tarawih' prayer? And why can you trust Umar and Abu Bakr when at Saqeefa they plotted to murder Imam Ali?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akTGKVnjSno

I disagree akhi, if you can trust God to guide you (and ultimately I do), then for me that supersedes anything else. But regarding the Prophet, I can't see that he was anything else as he was completely illiterate but had all this stuff revealed to him.

Ok so about your other question, you would need a mufti for that answer as I suspect, as with all these part-knowledge type things that each religion throws at each other, it has a rational explanation often misunderstood from a bad interpretation and all to easily believed. Inshallah, i will ask my imam though and I will ask the bloke who does the tafsir classes.

That's my point. You just close your mind and let others think for you, let 'God guide you' when it's a matter of Hell or Jannah. If you knew the answer for yourself you'd leave Islam.

And Islam, like every other world religion, is a legalistic framework that subordinates God to His Law and Commands and subordinates humanity to God. Why is God stuck in place and not able to do anything outside of a magic book and 'infallible' human beings who interpret that book?

Muhammad was illiterate, or so they claim. However, that doesn't prove anything about his prophetic credentials. The Qur'an is simply a bi-product of historical development. And I don't know why you could trust it, it's missing many verses. There is no 'knowledge' in Orthodoxy, except that which God imparts to His Church. Superficial knowledge is useless, and God probably wouldn't care how knowledgeable you are. 'Only Allah knows' is the easy way out.

Plus, I don't need a 'bloke from Tafsir classes' to tell me what the Qur'an means. I know Arabic, I just look it up for myself. Not that I care very much about it.

Besides, most of it is gibberish anyway, and Muslim scholars admit this.

With the respect to the guidance of Allah, subhana wa ta 3la, sure, there is a closed mind but in terms of fiqh? There are four main schools and it is far from a closed mind. I mainly follow the Hanbali school of fiqh but the Hanafi is the most common. But this is not down to any differences in Qur'an. All schools of fiqh follow the exact same Qur'an with no exceptions as it is read in Arabic and every Qur'an is the exact same as the next.

Emboldened - then why ask me the question?? Rather just tell me the info if you already know the answer.

"Muslim scholars admit this" - If you're going to be that lazy in your answers then, I will let you go yawn and roll your eyes on another thread rather than take up your time here.

I wasn't 'answering' anything. I was just being rhetorical. If you want to debate, we can do that on another thread.

Most Muslims don't know Arabic, they just memorize verses from the Qur'an that they don't understand.
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« Reply #114 on: October 31, 2013, 01:06:47 PM »


Logically, how do you accept that God has a partner/co equal ?


I don't...Christians do not believe there's a partner or co-equal with God.  
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« Reply #115 on: October 31, 2013, 01:08:42 PM »

If Muslim scholars admit the Arabic used in the Koran is gibberish, is it because it's actually nonsensical or because it's an older dialect that the average person can't understand?  I'm thinking it's the latter.
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« Reply #116 on: October 31, 2013, 01:11:59 PM »

If Muslim scholars admit the Arabic used in the Koran is gibberish, is it because it's actually nonsensical or because it's an older dialect that the average person can't understand?  I'm thinking it's the latter.

and the Qur'an has several foreign words although Muhammad vainly tried to deny it.
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« Reply #117 on: October 31, 2013, 01:12:46 PM »

Poppy, have you read the biography of Muhammed by Ibn Ishaq? What are your thoughts about it?

Alhamdulillah, I loved it!

Did you read about when the Prophet, salahu 3lehi wassallem, had this bloke, an enemy,who left nasty rubbish on his doorstep every day (or week - I forget) for a long time this went on? The Prophet didn't get alarmed or kick off or react badly to this man. Then one day it stopped (yea I think it was daily) and so the Prophet became concerned and went over to the man's house where he found him sick. The Prophet visited him and was so kind to him that the man reverted to Islam eventually.

Ma sha'Allah, the accounts are amazing.

Those accounts show how barbaric Muhammad is. He ripped an old woman in two, raped a Coptic woman and killed 800 Jews. Lovely.
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« Reply #118 on: October 31, 2013, 01:13:53 PM »

because you said you speak Arabic, maybe you understand it better in Arabic
حتي تستطيعي فهم الاسلام بشكل كامل و صحيح,, لابد ان تكوني علي دراية باللغة العربية بشكل تام
لان النسخة المترجمة من كل الكتب الاسلامية ,, غير مكتملة و غير دقيقة
لذلك الاسلام لدي غير المتحدثين باللغة العربية مختلف تماماً ,, عن الاسلام الحقيقي الموجود في الدول ذات الاغلبية المسلم

Can you put up a translation? I'd Google it but I'm lazy.

To understand Islam in accurate and right way, you must be able to understand Arabic language fully
because almost all Islamic texts , that had been translated into other languages from Arabic,, are incomplete and not accurate
that's why you find a different version of Muslims in, Non-Arabic speaker countries, than the real Muslims in majority muslim countries
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« Reply #119 on: October 31, 2013, 01:13:57 PM »

because you said you speak Arabic, maybe you understand it better in Arabic
حتي تستطيعي فهم الاسلام بشكل كامل و صحيح,, لابد ان تكوني علي دراية باللغة العربية بشكل تام
لان النسخة المترجمة من كل الكتب الاسلامية ,, غير مكتملة و غير دقيقة
لذلك الاسلام لدي غير المتحدثين باللغة العربية مختلف تماماً ,, عن الاسلام الحقيقي الموجود في الدول ذات الاغلبية المسلم

Better? No not better, as English is my first language (although some ppl would be like @really???) after they heard me speak, ha!)

I already mentioned that point earlier in the thread, that you have to read it in Arabic because if it isn't in Arabic then it's not correct or complete.

It's true that you need to know the language fully but we are all on a process of learning and a medium level Arabic speaker/reader is better than someone who only knows a little. And someone who knows only a little, is better than someone who knows and understands nothing at all.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 01:16:19 PM by Poppy » Logged
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« Reply #120 on: October 31, 2013, 01:16:10 PM »


To understand Islam in accurate and right way, you must be able to understand Arabic language fully
because almost all Islamic texts , that had been translated into other languages from Arabic,, are incomplete and not accurate
that's why you find a different version of Muslims in, Non-Arabic speaker countries, than the real Muslims in majority muslim countries

To understand Islam in accurate and right way, you must be an Arab and live in Muhammad's era.  Grin

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« Reply #121 on: October 31, 2013, 01:17:42 PM »

To understand Islam in accurate and right way, you must be able to understand Arabic language fully
because almost all Islamic texts , that had been translated into other languages from Arabic,, are incomplete and not accurate
that's why you find a different version of Muslims in, Non-Arabic speaker countries, than the real Muslims in majority muslim countries

I suppose illiterate Muslims are not "real" enough.
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« Reply #122 on: October 31, 2013, 01:18:43 PM »

To understand Islam in accurate and right way, you must be able to understand Arabic language fully

And to be able to fully understand the Qu'ran, its sources and who it quarrels with, Hebrew and especially Aramaic (Syriac) are quite indispensable.
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« Reply #123 on: October 31, 2013, 01:21:37 PM »

Poppy, have you read the biography of Muhammed by Ibn Ishaq? What are your thoughts about it?

Alhamdulillah, I loved it!

Did you read about when the Prophet, salahu 3lehi wassallem, had this bloke, an enemy,who left nasty rubbish on his doorstep every day (or week - I forget) for a long time this went on? The Prophet didn't get alarmed or kick off or react badly to this man. Then one day it stopped (yea I think it was daily) and so the Prophet became concerned and went over to the man's house where he found him sick. The Prophet visited him and was so kind to him that the man reverted to Islam eventually.

Ma sha'Allah, the accounts are amazing.

Those accounts show how barbaric Muhammad is. He ripped an old woman in two, raped a Coptic woman and killed 800 Jews. Lovely.
See, this is what I mentioned earlier about throwing misunderstood texts at each other from each others' religions. It gets ppl nowhere helpful and could easily make you look like a jerk if you engage in it.

Plus it's off topic for the OP and inflammatory so jog on unless you got anything helpful to add.
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« Reply #124 on: October 31, 2013, 01:22:46 PM »

I suppose illiterate Muslims are not "real" enough.
This is the simple Islamic criterion for understanding the Qur'an accurately:

If a verse or passage contains problems and incurs critique, people cannot understand it well because allah closes disbelievers' minds.

If a verse or passage is faultless and rational, everyone can easily understand it because allah made it a clear and universal revelation.

 Cheesy
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« Reply #125 on: October 31, 2013, 01:23:28 PM »

Disclaimer: I dont know Arabic, but I did read the Qu'ran about 10 years ago. I guess you need to understand Arabic to "get" Islam. I read it and came to the opinion that there is no way Islam is the true faith. There were too many glaring problems with the Qu'ran to be "God's book", and WAY too many issues with the "prophet" for him to be genuine.

Quote
If a verse or passage contains problems and incurs critique, people cannot understand it well because allah closes disbelievers' minds.

If a verse or passage is faultless and rational, everyone can easily understand it because allah made it a clear and universal revelation
Paging Mr. Calvin........

PP
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« Reply #126 on: October 31, 2013, 01:24:51 PM »

because you said you speak Arabic, maybe you understand it better in Arabic
حتي تستطيعي فهم الاسلام بشكل كامل و صحيح,, لابد ان تكوني علي دراية باللغة العربية بشكل تام
لان النسخة المترجمة من كل الكتب الاسلامية ,, غير مكتملة و غير دقيقة
لذلك الاسلام لدي غير المتحدثين باللغة العربية مختلف تماماً ,, عن الاسلام الحقيقي الموجود في الدول ذات الاغلبية المسلم

Can you put up a translation? I'd Google it but I'm lazy.

To understand Islam in accurate and right way, you must be able to understand Arabic language fully
because almost all Islamic texts , that had been translated into other languages from Arabic,, are incomplete and not accurate
that's why you find a different version of Muslims in, Non-Arabic speaker countries, than the real Muslims in majority muslim countries
Haha nice!
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« Reply #127 on: October 31, 2013, 01:25:07 PM »

If Muslim scholars admit the Arabic used in the Koran is gibberish, is it because it's actually nonsensical or because it's an older dialect that the average person can't understand?  I'm thinking it's the latter.

It's both. The Qur'an has nonsensical non-Arabic words that are a complete mystery. It has random letters strewed together and it's in an Archaic form. Although, if you know MSA it's pretty easy to comprehend with enough vocabulary. Not to mention it has no narrative or context.

because you said you speak Arabic, maybe you understand it better in Arabic
حتي تستطيعي فهم الاسلام بشكل كامل و صحيح,, لابد ان تكوني علي دراية باللغة العربية بشكل تام
لان النسخة المترجمة من كل الكتب الاسلامية ,, غير مكتملة و غير دقيقة
لذلك الاسلام لدي غير المتحدثين باللغة العربية مختلف تماماً ,, عن الاسلام الحقيقي الموجود في الدول ذات الاغلبية المسلم

Better? No not better, as English is my first language (although some ppl would be like @really???) after they heard me speak, ha!)

I already mentioned that point earlier in the thread, that you have to read it in Arabic because if it isn't in Arabic then it's not correct or complete.

It's true that you need to know the language fully but we are all on a process of learning and a medium level Arabic speaker/reader is better than someone who only knows a little. And someone who knows only a little, is better than someone who knows and understands nothing at all.

That's why it's stupid. God is trapped in a 7th century language and a magic book, that people need to learn empirically to understand God. And God still doesn't love you. God only loves those who kill for His Cause. (c.f., Surah 61:4)

Poppy, have you read the biography of Muhammed by Ibn Ishaq? What are your thoughts about it?

Alhamdulillah, I loved it!

Did you read about when the Prophet, salahu 3lehi wassallem, had this bloke, an enemy,who left nasty rubbish on his doorstep every day (or week - I forget) for a long time this went on? The Prophet didn't get alarmed or kick off or react badly to this man. Then one day it stopped (yea I think it was daily) and so the Prophet became concerned and went over to the man's house where he found him sick. The Prophet visited him and was so kind to him that the man reverted to Islam eventually.

Ma sha'Allah, the accounts are amazing.

Those accounts show how barbaric Muhammad is. He ripped an old woman in two, raped a Coptic woman and killed 800 Jews. Lovely.
See, this is what I mentioned earlier about throwing misunderstood texts at each other from each others' religions. It gets ppl nowhere helpful and could easily make you look like a jerk if you engage in it.

Plus it's off topic for the OP and inflammatory so jog on unless you got anything helpful to add.

Misunderstood? Help me understand it then. You tell me what the Battle of the Trench was about and what really happened to Maria the Copt and Asma bint Marwan.

I suppose illiterate Muslims are not "real" enough.
This is the simple Islamic criterion for understanding the Qur'an accurately:

If a verse or passage contains problems and incurs critique, people cannot understand it well because allah closes disbelievers' minds.

If a verse or passage is faultless and rational, everyone can easily understand it because allah made it a clear and universal revelation.

 Cheesy

In Islam, a verse has a rating of being clear and unclear. Mutashabihah is what its called.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 01:53:09 PM by xOrthodox4Christx » Logged

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« Reply #128 on: October 31, 2013, 01:27:10 PM »

In Islam, a verse has a rating of being clear and unclear. Mutashabihah is what its called.

I know. I am a murtadWink
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« Reply #129 on: October 31, 2013, 01:34:59 PM »

I know. I am a murtad.  Wink

Now there's an ugly-sounding word!  laugh

Almost like Yahwist...
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« Reply #130 on: October 31, 2013, 01:40:54 PM »

I know. I am a murtad.  Wink

Now there's an ugly-sounding word!  laugh

Almost like Yahwist...

It is, it means an Apostate. You'd be killed under Islamic law for being one. I think there are opinions that recommend other things for repentance, such as imprisonment. Although, many modern Muslim scholars say this...
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« Reply #131 on: October 31, 2013, 01:41:42 PM »

because you said you speak Arabic, maybe you understand it better in Arabic
حتي تستطيعي فهم الاسلام بشكل كامل و صحيح,, لابد ان تكوني علي دراية باللغة العربية بشكل تام
لان النسخة المترجمة من كل الكتب الاسلامية ,, غير مكتملة و غير دقيقة
لذلك الاسلام لدي غير المتحدثين باللغة العربية مختلف تماماً ,, عن الاسلام الحقيقي الموجود في الدول ذات الاغلبية المسلم

Better? No not better, as English is my first language (although some ppl would be like @really???) after they heard me speak, ha!)

I already mentioned that point earlier in the thread, that you have to read it in Arabic because if it isn't in Arabic then it's not correct or complete.

It's true that you need to know the language fully but we are all on a process of learning and a medium level Arabic speaker/reader is better than someone who only knows a little. And someone who knows only a little, is better than someone who knows and understands nothing at all.

if you read the Arabic texts of Islam, you will find something called "Pleasure Marriage"
It is when man wants to enjoy a woman, he pays her wage and spends sometime with her,
and that’s all
The pleasure marriage was practiced during the time of Muhammad, the messenger
practiced it and so did the companions , it was also present during the time of Abe Bakre
and the beginning of the time of Omer then Omer banned it, but the Sheia’ian are still
practicing it as they denied its banning.
I want to ask you, as a human being, Do you agree about that? as the Prophet did it himself !
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« Reply #132 on: October 31, 2013, 01:49:26 PM »

because you said you speak Arabic, maybe you understand it better in Arabic
حتي تستطيعي فهم الاسلام بشكل كامل و صحيح,, لابد ان تكوني علي دراية باللغة العربية بشكل تام
لان النسخة المترجمة من كل الكتب الاسلامية ,, غير مكتملة و غير دقيقة
لذلك الاسلام لدي غير المتحدثين باللغة العربية مختلف تماماً ,, عن الاسلام الحقيقي الموجود في الدول ذات الاغلبية المسلم

Better? No not better, as English is my first language (although some ppl would be like @really???) after they heard me speak, ha!)

I already mentioned that point earlier in the thread, that you have to read it in Arabic because if it isn't in Arabic then it's not correct or complete.

It's true that you need to know the language fully but we are all on a process of learning and a medium level Arabic speaker/reader is better than someone who only knows a little. And someone who knows only a little, is better than someone who knows and understands nothing at all.

if you read the Arabic texts of Islam, you will find something called "Pleasure Marriage"
It is when man wants to enjoy a woman, he pays her wage and spends sometime with her,
and that’s all
The pleasure marriage was practiced during the time of Muhammad, the messenger
practiced it and so did the companions , it was also present during the time of Abe Bakre
and the beginning of the time of Omer then Omer banned it, but the Sheia’ian are still
practicing it as they denied its banning.
I want to ask you, as a human being, Do you agree about that? as the Prophet did it himself !

Umar also deleted the last clause of the Azan 'Hayya ala a-Khair al-'Amal' and he also added the Tarawih prayer.

I also want to know why Sunnis pray 5 times a day when the Qur'an only says to pray 3 times a day. Sunnis added two prayers not mentioned in the Quran.
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« Reply #133 on: October 31, 2013, 01:54:13 PM »

Sunnis don't teach sola scriptura.
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« Reply #134 on: October 31, 2013, 01:56:57 PM »


Umar also deleted the last clause of the Azan 'Hayya ala a-Khair al-'Amal' and he also added the Tarawih prayer.

I also want to know why Sunnis pray 5 times a day when the Qur'an only says to pray 3 times a day. Sunnis added two prayers not mentioned in the Quran.

Naughty Omar also made efforts to insert rajm into the Qur'an. He swore that he had heard Muhammad recite that verse of stoning.  Smiley
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