Author Topic: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?  (Read 25989 times)

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Offline Poppy

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #180 on: October 31, 2013, 04:20:53 PM »

My fatalist ways, I think your perception is your reality there. And I used the quote from the ideology YOU follow now, thought it may make a point somehow but it may have been lost.


1) You didn't use a quote at all
2) What you did use from Islam, was used by you, to validate your own lifestyle choices

Offline Poppy

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #181 on: October 31, 2013, 04:25:25 PM »
Sorry and sure, I should have done that but I wanted replies only from ppl who has studied it rli and who struggled with it. So they would have understood.
But I will put like you did by the side.

Did you see my q to you eons ago? If not,no worries. I am about done with this thread anyway.


Poppy, I already answered the question.  Christians don't believe God has a co-equal or co-partner.

Oh crikey, sorry, I missed it.

I know rli well the bible chapters that come close to implying that Jesus was more than a Prophet but none of them make the issue total closure. What makes it total closure for you?

Offline RehamG

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #182 on: October 31, 2013, 04:27:03 PM »

My fatalist ways, I think your perception is your reality there. And I used the quote from the ideology YOU follow now, thought it may make a point somehow but it may have been lost.


1) You didn't use a quote at all
2) What you did use from Islam, was used by you, to validate your own lifestyle choices

I didn't think I had to quote since you're Muslim, and I was you would know on the day of judgement man will run from his wife, friends from friends, no one may save another from the hellfire. That is paraphrased but I am too lazy to care enough to look it up at present. I don't need diddly from Islam to validate my lifestyle because I'm not Muslim. I'm not the best at making points but I was trying to make on for you that was apparently lost due to my poor planning/word usage/being up for almost 3 days straight.

However if you must have the quote I will get it.
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #183 on: October 31, 2013, 04:30:00 PM »
Hmm, and yet the Qur'an is a perfect book, and it says: "This day I have perfected for you your religion... and I choose Islam as your religion" (5:3)

Islam was 'perfect' when Allah revealed the Qur'an, at the time of Muhammad. Why do you need imperfect isnad chains, and all sorts of Hadith and traditions that come 300 years later for a religion that was already perfect? Since Islam was already perfect, it doesn't make sense why you'd have to add more prayers and add more akhams apart from what the Qur'an says.

"Hmmm, and yet the Qu'ran Bible is a perfect book, and it says: "This day I have perfected for you your religion... and I choose Islam as your religion" "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness"

Islam Christianity was perfect when the Qu'ran New Testament was written, at the time of Muhammed Christ and the apostles. Why do you need imperfect isnad Tradition chains and all sorts of Hadiths patristic texts and traditions that come 300 later for a religion that was already perfect? Since Islam Christianity was already perfect, it doesn't make sense why you have to add more prayers and add more akshams canons apart from what the Qu'ran Bible says"

See how your arguments don't work?

No, the problem is you are equating the Bible and Qur'an like they are the same thing. They are not. The Bible is a compilation that went through historical development, and was written by humans. The Qur'an is not. The Qur'an is a literal 'Word of God' that existed forever with God, and God revealed it directly to Muhammad through the Angel Gabriel and was written down. The Bible wasn't literally dictated word for word from God. It was human breathed as well as God-breathed.

You are also assuming that Islamic tradition is in accord with the Qur'an. It is not. The Hadith are completely at variance with each other and with the Qur'an. The Hadith say that the Qur'an isn't perfect, the Qur'an itself says it 'is' perfect. The Qur'an says that you only pray 3 times a day. Hadith say 50 times, some say that it was changed to 5 times and now that's the official stance. The Hadith developed after the Qur'an. Christian tradition developed alongside the Bible. St. Ignatius of Antioch is an indicator of this. There is no authority apart from maybe Sufyan al-Thawri or Abu Hanifah who has such a role that connects the tradition with the Prophet. And Abu Hanifah and Sufyan al-Thawri's works are usually considered as 'attributed' or 'inauthentic'.

The Qur'an in Islam by Allamah al-Tabatabai

There are many Hadith, some are weak and others are strong with a good chain.

Also, you can't comment on "most Muslims" as you can't possibly know that information unless you have stats. If you do then reference them! If not then don't be lazy and make useless generalisations. All the Muslims I know at various masjids (and it's quite a few now), know Arabic rli well.

The majority of Muslims live in Southeast Asia. Do they speak Arabic there? I live in Minnesota, and I only knew of one Arabic speaker in the Mosque in my area... the Imam.

Sorry and sure, I should have done that but I wanted replies only from ppl who has studied it rli and who struggled with it. So they would have understood.
But I will put like you did by the side.

Did you see my q to you eons ago? If not,no worries. I am about done with this thread anyway.


Poppy, I already answered the question.  Christians don't believe God has a co-equal or co-partner.

Oh crikey, sorry, I missed it.

I know rli well the bible chapters that come close to implying that Jesus was more than a Prophet but none of them make the issue total closure. What makes it total closure for you?

Because the people who wrote the Bible (Jews and Christians) know what it means. Just like the people who wrote the Qur'an (Muslims) know what it means.

You don't just separate the Book from it's author. Shakespeare needs to be read in the context of Shakespeare. Not in the context of Barack Obama.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 04:32:04 PM by xOrthodox4Christx »
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Offline RehamG

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #184 on: October 31, 2013, 04:30:33 PM »
And with that, I am stepping away. Anyone who knows me somewhat on here knows I have issues that eventually make me biased against Islam just due to past experiences. No need in my getting rude on here because momma raised me to be a lady not a savage. ;)

Have fun, guys!
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Offline Romaios

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #185 on: October 31, 2013, 04:33:36 PM »
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 04:35:50 PM by Romaios »

Offline Alpo

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #186 on: October 31, 2013, 04:34:18 PM »
Sorry and sure, I should have done that but I wanted replies only from ppl who has studied it rli and who struggled with it. So they would have understood.
But I will put like you did by the side.

Did you see my q to you eons ago? If not,no worries. I am about done with this thread anyway.


Poppy, I already answered the question.  Christians don't believe God has a co-equal or co-partner.

Oh crikey, sorry, I missed it.

I know rli well the bible chapters that come close to implying that Jesus was more than a Prophet but none of them make the issue total closure. What makes it total closure for you?

Jesus was forgiving sins, promised to give his followers eternal life and the whole "me and father are one" thing. How's that not total closure?
Quote from: Severian
the people on this forum have to stop taking themselves so seriously. None of us are some modern-day Athanasius, we all just have nothing better to do.

Offline mike

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #187 on: October 31, 2013, 04:35:49 PM »
They allow women to sing, it is less overlong. Not bad.

So do Greeks: Mariam Skorda - Cherubic Hymn

Hiera Mone Sipsa Drama - Ascension Matins

The latter is OK. The former - IDK are they singing or yawning.
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #188 on: October 31, 2013, 04:37:25 PM »
Sorry and sure, I should have done that but I wanted replies only from ppl who has studied it rli and who struggled with it. So they would have understood.
But I will put like you did by the side.

Did you see my q to you eons ago? If not,no worries. I am about done with this thread anyway.


Poppy, I already answered the question.  Christians don't believe God has a co-equal or co-partner.

Oh crikey, sorry, I missed it.

I know rli well the bible chapters that come close to implying that Jesus was more than a Prophet but none of them make the issue total closure. What makes it total closure for you?

Jesus was forgiving sins, promised to give his followers eternal life and the whole "me and father are one" thing. How's that not total closure?

Then explain the Councils and infighting since.

You have to give Poppy her do.
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #189 on: October 31, 2013, 04:39:23 PM »

Again, no Christian, Jew or Muslim ever called themselves what you call yourself, historically.

Today is not a part of history?


Hahaha. This reminds me of when the History Channel stopped being about Nazis and war and converted into a channel where we watch fat bald people barter for other people's junk. Their new slogan is now "History is everyday" or some such silliness.

Nope. Today is not a part of history until it's tomorrow. ;)

or at least until sundown...

Offline Romaios

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #190 on: October 31, 2013, 04:40:44 PM »
The latter is OK. The former - IDK are they singing or yawning.

She is singing, they are just there for decorum - if you don't like her voice, you must be a heretic!  :P

Offline Poppy

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #191 on: October 31, 2013, 04:41:29 PM »

My fatalist ways, I think your perception is your reality there. And I used the quote from the ideology YOU follow now, thought it may make a point somehow but it may have been lost.


1) You didn't use a quote at all
2) What you did use from Islam, was used by you, to validate your own lifestyle choices

I didn't think I had to quote since you're Muslim, and I was you would know on the day of judgement man will run from his wife, friends from friends, no one may save another from the hellfire. That is paraphrased but I am too lazy to care enough to look it up at present. I don't need diddly from Islam to validate my lifestyle because I'm not Muslim. I'm not the best at making points but I was trying to make on for you that was apparently lost due to my poor planning/word usage/being up for almost 3 days straight.

However if you must have the quote I will get it.

I have it. I don't need it. Just pointing out that you had said you quoted, when in fact, you didn't.

Seriously, this stuff is important because it's life or death for people. You have to be accurate and consistent and not to mind when someone calls you on stuff when it's contradictory, without immediately switching to victim mode.


Offline Alpo

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #192 on: October 31, 2013, 04:42:46 PM »
Then explain the Councils and infighting since.

AFAIK Arianism fits rather nicely together with neo-platonism which was fashionable anyway. Hence the popularity.
Quote from: Severian
the people on this forum have to stop taking themselves so seriously. None of us are some modern-day Athanasius, we all just have nothing better to do.

Offline mike

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #193 on: October 31, 2013, 04:43:52 PM »
The latter is OK. The former - IDK are they singing or yawning.

She is singing, they are just there for decorum - if you don't like her voice, you must be a heretic!  :P

Not my piece of cake.
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Offline Poppy

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #194 on: October 31, 2013, 04:45:18 PM »
Sorry and sure, I should have done that but I wanted replies only from ppl who has studied it rli and who struggled with it. So they would have understood.
But I will put like you did by the side.

Did you see my q to you eons ago? If not,no worries. I am about done with this thread anyway.


Poppy, I already answered the question.  Christians don't believe God has a co-equal or co-partner.

Oh crikey, sorry, I missed it.

I know rli well the bible chapters that come close to implying that Jesus was more than a Prophet but none of them make the issue total closure. What makes it total closure for you?

Jesus was forgiving sins, promised to give his followers eternal life and the whole "me and father are one" thing. How's that not total closure?

This one is about unity isn't it?

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #195 on: October 31, 2013, 04:45:41 PM »
Poppy,

I hope you can tell that most of the acrimony in this thread hasn't been directed toward you but rather the so-called "Y'allwayist".

Poppy I know you have in the past thought I was out to get you or something, but really I agree with nearly everything you've posted in this about the nature of conviction or belief.

I still think it would interesting everyone spoke more directly to your OP. People don't think or argue their way to belief.

Likewise, I think you might find some more of the answers you were looking for in your OP, if you did likewise.

Btw, it is quite remarkable how much you've learned since being here last. Wish I had learned Arabic in that time, I doubt if it would even be possible.

Oh and another question (feel free to ignore me if you want) but do you find that the arabic fonts are easier on your dyslexia? I was listening to a radio program the other day about a young who has developed a font which is much less likely to cause dyslexics problems.
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #196 on: October 31, 2013, 04:50:23 PM »
I am primarily Christian. In order to separate myself from some other "Christians" who insist on worshipping foreign gods (allah worshippers, for instance), I designate myself as a Yahwist.

If you separate yourself from the Arab-speaking Orthodox, you separate yourself from all the Orthodox who are in communion with them. Not pretty, I tell you!  ::)

Then I would still find myself a place among the Messianic Jews or Evangelicals.  ;)

 ???

And what if Arabic-speaking Messianic Jews or Evangelicals use the word Allah? Where will you go?
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 04:51:21 PM by Cyrillic »
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Offline Romaios

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #197 on: October 31, 2013, 04:50:34 PM »
I know rli well the bible chapters that come close to implying that Jesus was more than a Prophet but none of them make the issue total closure. What makes it total closure for you?

Jesus was forgiving sins, promised to give his followers eternal life and the whole "me and father are one" thing. How's that not total closure?

Then explain the Councils and infighting since.

You have to give Poppy her do.

1 Corinthians 11:19

Or, as St. Augustine put it, the Church must have a good digestion.

Offline Alpo

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #198 on: October 31, 2013, 04:50:55 PM »
This thread needs more Sami Yusuf.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE84QwZpho4
Quote from: Severian
the people on this forum have to stop taking themselves so seriously. None of us are some modern-day Athanasius, we all just have nothing better to do.

Offline Poppy

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #199 on: October 31, 2013, 04:51:32 PM »
The latter is OK. The former - IDK are they singing or yawning.

She is singing, they are just there for decorum - if you don't like her voice, you must be a heretic!  :P

Not my piece of cake.

cup of tea

Offline mike

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #200 on: October 31, 2013, 04:52:33 PM »
The latter is OK. The former - IDK are they singing or yawning.

She is singing, they are just there for decorum - if you don't like her voice, you must be a heretic!  :P

Not my piece of cake.

cup of tea

Whatever. I prefer tea to cakes anyway.
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Offline mabsoota

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #201 on: October 31, 2013, 04:53:32 PM »
hi, poppy,
i would like to celebrate your return and congratulate you on this thread which already is 5 pages long!
 :)

i am glad you have concluded that God exists.
i hope you will find the depths of God's love for you.

and for all those (especially alpo) who like arabic chant, here's some more:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2-iqilyaK0

and for those without youtube (or the time to watch!), here are the lyrics in 3 languages:
http://tasbeha.org/hymn_library/view/2505

it is the 'fraction prayer' (prayer of breaking the consecrated bread) for the fast and feast of the apostles which is in june/july.
it explains some things about the coming of Jesus and how He became man and died and resurrected for us.
 :)

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #202 on: October 31, 2013, 04:56:43 PM »
I know rli well the bible chapters that come close to implying that Jesus was more than a Prophet but none of them make the issue total closure. What makes it total closure for you?

Jesus was forgiving sins, promised to give his followers eternal life and the whole "me and father are one" thing. How's that not total closure?

Then explain the Councils and infighting since.

You have to give Poppy her do.

1 Corinthians 11:19

Or, as St. Augustine put it, the Church must have a good digestion.

Yeah or it is because the text is hardly univocal, especially the Gospels.

This is what I don't get about YiM, if you want to be the earliest follow of Christ, you need to start by rejecting the whole divinity part.
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Offline Romaios

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #203 on: October 31, 2013, 04:57:06 PM »
This thread needs more Sami Yusuf.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE84QwZpho4

More Anwar Al-Awlaki! Only the youtube links have gone missing...  :(

I listened to tons of that guy's stuff. A really good speaker and a great Muslim apologist. I think I must still have his talks stored up somewhere.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 04:58:01 PM by Romaios »

Offline Poppy

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #204 on: October 31, 2013, 04:58:48 PM »
I am primarily Christian. In order to separate myself from some other "Christians" who insist on worshipping foreign gods (allah worshippers, for instance), I designate myself as a Yahwist.

If you separate yourself from the Arab-speaking Orthodox, you separate yourself from all the Orthodox who are in communion with them. Not pretty, I tell you!  ::)

Then I would still find myself a place among the Messianic Jews or Evangelicals.  ;)

 ???

And what if Arabic-speaking Messianic Jews or Evangelicals use the word Allah? Where will you go?

illah = God.

Allah = The God (Al Illah)

Offline Alpo

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #205 on: October 31, 2013, 04:59:03 PM »
and for all those (especially alpo) who like arabic chant, here's some more:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2-iqilyaK0

I love it.

*Books next flight to the Middle East*
Quote from: Severian
the people on this forum have to stop taking themselves so seriously. None of us are some modern-day Athanasius, we all just have nothing better to do.

Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #206 on: October 31, 2013, 05:00:05 PM »

 ???

And what if Arabic-speaking Messianic Jews or Evangelicals use the word Allah? Where will you go?

I would pray at home and humbly ask Yeshua to hasten His return.  :angel:
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #207 on: October 31, 2013, 05:01:38 PM »


illah = God.

Allah = The God (Al Illah)

Allah is the chief god of Meccan polytheism, the father of Allat! A pagan god and idol.

La allah illa YHWH, the God of Israel!
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #208 on: October 31, 2013, 05:04:37 PM »
Zeus was often called o Theos...
At nunc desertis cessant sacraria lucis:
aurum omnes victa iam pietate colunt.
-Propertius, Elegies III.XIII:47-48

Ἀπ' ὃσα ἒκαμα κι ἀπ’ ὃσα εἶπα
νὰ μὴ ζητήσουνε νὰ βροῦν ποιός ἢμουν
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #209 on: October 31, 2013, 05:09:40 PM »
Zeus was often called o Theos...

God said further to Moshe, “Say this to the people of Isra’el: ‘Yud-Heh-Vav-Heh [Adonai], the God of your fathers, the God of Avraham, the God of Yitz’chak and the God of Ya‘akov, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever; this is how I am to be remembered generation after generation. (Exodus 3:15)
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Offline Alpo

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #210 on: October 31, 2013, 05:15:00 PM »
I feel a bit comfortable when Y-word is used so casually. The second commandment and all that. IMO it's a bit disrespectful to make it as label of oneself.
Quote from: Severian
the people on this forum have to stop taking themselves so seriously. None of us are some modern-day Athanasius, we all just have nothing better to do.

Offline minasoliman

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #211 on: October 31, 2013, 05:17:00 PM »
There's plenty of verses in the Bible.  We can start with the gospel of Matthew, where it gives us a hint of the type of person Jesus was from his childhood.

In Matthew Chapter 1, we find out Christ is born of a Virgin, which never happened in the history of mankind, nor probably will ever happen in the future.  It is remarkable that even the Quran attests to the fact that Jesus was born of a Virgin.  Why do you think he was the only one born of a Virgin, Poppy?

"The Virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and THEY will call Him "Immanuel" (which means "God with us")." (Matthew 1:23)

And the seeking to WORSHIP the baby Jesus is mentioned in the next chapter:

"Where is the one who was born king of the Jews?  We saw His star when it rose and have come to worship Him." (2:2)

"Go and search carefully for the child.  As soon as you find Him, report to me, so that I too may go and worship Him." (2:8 )

"On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped Him.  Then they opened their treasures and presented Him with gifts of gold, frankinscence, and myrrh." (2:11)

« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 05:18:37 PM by minasoliman »
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #212 on: October 31, 2013, 05:19:35 PM »
Zeus was often called o Theos...

God said further to Moshe, “Say this to the people of Isra’el: ‘Yud-Heh-Vav-Heh [Adonai], the God of your fathers, the God of Avraham, the God of Yitz’chak and the God of Ya‘akov, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever; this is how I am to be remembered generation after generation. (Exodus 3:15)

That doesn't explain why God is called o Theos in the New Testament. If it's okay to use a Greek title of a pagan god to describe God why is it wrong to use the Arabic equivalent of o Theos?
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #213 on: October 31, 2013, 05:22:35 PM »
This thread needs more Sami Yusuf.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE84QwZpho4

More Anwar Al-Awlaki! Only the youtube links have gone missing...  :(

I listened to tons of that guy's stuff. A really good speaker and a great Muslim apologist. I think I must still have his talks stored up somewhere.

I don't know what to say about that. I just don't know.

and for all those (especially alpo) who like arabic chant, here's some more:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2-iqilyaK0

I love it.

*Books next flight to the Middle East*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSo-_dbvnGA Psalm 136 Lebanon

There's plenty of verses in the Bible.  We can start with the gospel of Matthew, where it gives us a hint of the type of person Jesus was from his childhood.

In Matthew Chapter 1, we find out Christ is born of a Virgin, which never happened in the history of mankind, nor probably will ever happen in the future.  It is remarkable that even the Quran attests to the fact that Jesus was born of a Virgin.  Why do you think he was the only one born of a Virgin, Poppy?

"The Virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and THEY will call Him "Immanuel" (which means "God with us")." (Matthew 1:23)

And the seeking to WORSHIP the baby Jesus is mentioned in the next chapter:

"Where is the one who was born king of the Jews?  We saw His star when it rose and have come to worship Him." (2:2)

"Go and search carefully for the child.  As soon as you find Him, report to me, so that I too may go and worship Him." (2:8 )

"On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped Him.  Then they opened their treasures and presented Him with gifts of gold, frankinscence, and myrrh." (2:11)

Luke 1:42-3 "And she exclaimed with a loud cry, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And why is this granted to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me?"

Leviticus 26:11-13 "I will place my dwelling in your midst, and I shall not abhor you. 12 And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and you shall be my people. 13 I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, to be their slaves no more; I have broken the bars of your yoke and made you walk erect."

Proverbs 8:22-24 "The Lord created me at the beginning of his work, the first of his acts of long ago. Ages ago I was set up, at the first, before the beginning of the earth." (Holy Wisdom was pre-existant)

"So the Jews said to him, 'You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am." (John 8:57-58, Christ existed before Abraham)
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 05:32:10 PM by xOrthodox4Christx »
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Offline Cognomen

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #214 on: October 31, 2013, 05:23:01 PM »
I once considered Islam. I was interested in the history and culture of the islamic world and there was a lot of things I found very beautiful, like the way muslims pray, the quran recitation, the architecture etc. However, in the end, I realised, that what appealed to me about Islam, was the outer aspects. When it came to the actual theology, I just couldn't agree.

+7

That doesn't mean I don't struggle with Xtianity, including the BIG issue, but I never had the break through with Islam.

My interest and pull towards it varied, but ultimately, the more I studied and gained exposure, the more I was convinced that I could not be Muslim.

I still greatly appreciate this "outer" beauty of Islam, but I am wary of its teachings.  Aspects of its theology proved almost too easy for me to believe, and ultimately something felt "not right" about it.  I use this rather un-theological phrase, because I'm not trying to argue or convince anyone of anything.  I'm simply stating my relevant experience.
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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #215 on: October 31, 2013, 05:25:34 PM »
Hi Poppy,

I remember you mentioned something about how we as Christians should pray the hours.  In the Coptic Church, we do have a prayer book of the hours.  It's called the Agpeya (agpeya.org).  In the Greek Church, it is called the Horologion.
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #216 on: October 31, 2013, 05:28:45 PM »
More Anwar Al-Awlaki! Only the youtube links have gone missing...  :(

I listened to tons of that guy's stuff. A really good speaker and a great Muslim apologist. I think I must still have his talks stored up somewhere.

I don't know what to say about that. I just don't know.


Well, he didn't brainwash me into becoming a mujahedin and he certainly didn't convince me to convert to Islam. I just admired his eloquence...

He was also a (good?) source of information on the Islamic version of the lives of the Prophets, Muhammad, Muslim martyrs, etc.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 05:32:12 PM by Romaios »

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #217 on: October 31, 2013, 05:34:11 PM »
guys, can we put the arguments about the name of God on the relevant thread?

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,54252.0.html

then this thread will be tidier!
 :angel:

alpo, it's egypt you need to go to get good arabic chant.
send me a personal message when you go so i can hide in your suitcase!
 ;)

and the link to the prayer book minasoliman mentioned is here:

http://www.agpeya.org/

gotta go so i can pray, not just talk about it!
 8)

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« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 05:35:19 PM by Alpo »
Quote from: Severian
the people on this forum have to stop taking themselves so seriously. None of us are some modern-day Athanasius, we all just have nothing better to do.

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #219 on: October 31, 2013, 05:37:01 PM »
More Anwar Al-Awlaki! Only the youtube links have gone missing...  :(

I listened to tons of that guy's stuff. A really good speaker and a great Muslim apologist. I think I must still have his talks stored up somewhere.

I don't know what to say about that. I just don't know.


Well, he didn't brainwash me into becoming a mujahedin and he certainly didn't convince me to convert to Islam. I just admired his eloquence...

He was also a (good?) source of information on the Islamic version of the lives of the Prophets, Muhammad, Muslim martyrs, etc.

I am just wondering if you were serious or not. I listened to him too, so.

'The Dust Will Never Settle Down' reveals the true nature of Islam. I just hope the NSA isn't spying. You know they are, that's the funny and a bit scary thing.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 05:53:05 PM by xOrthodox4Christx »
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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #220 on: October 31, 2013, 05:38:40 PM »
This is what I don't get about YiM, if you want to be the earliest follow of Christ, you need to start by rejecting the whole divinity part.

My recollection was that it was the other way around: the earliest heretics were those who couldn't accept that Jesus was human as well as divine. 
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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #222 on: October 31, 2013, 05:42:50 PM »
I don't buy into all those silly "He's greater than us, He deserves worship by default" or "But look at the beauty of the world! He deserves worship!" arguments that many mainstream Christian and Muslim apologists make.

I guess St Paul doesn't do it for you?  
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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #223 on: October 31, 2013, 05:43:21 PM »
I once considered Islam. I was interested in the history and culture of the islamic world and there was a lot of things I found very beautiful, like the way muslims pray, the quran recitation, the architecture etc. However, in the end, I realised, that what appealed to me about Islam, was the outer aspects. When it came to the actual theology, I just couldn't agree.

+7

That doesn't mean I don't struggle with Xtianity, including the BIG issue, but I never had the break through with Islam.

My interest and pull towards it varied, but ultimately, the more I studied and gained exposure, the more I was convinced that I could not be Muslim.

I still greatly appreciate this "outer" beauty of Islam, but I am wary of its teachings.  Aspects of its theology proved almost too easy for me to believe, and ultimately something felt "not right" about it.  I use this rather un-theological phrase, because I'm not trying to argue or convince anyone of anything.  I'm simply stating my relevant experience.

Which is what I think poppy is looking for.

In a strict sense, talking about "Islam" or "Christianity" in general makes almost no sense to me.

But the flood of apologetic.exe get tired and boring.

Really Amadeus is the worst in this thread in that regard.
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Re: Has anyone ever been like "hmm har" about Islam?
« Reply #224 on: October 31, 2013, 05:44:10 PM »
I just hope the NSA isn't spying. You know they are, that's the funny and a bit scary thing.

If we can't be guaranteed of our privacy on a public internet forum, where can we find it?!?

P.S.
Jihad--just to make sure!

P.P.S.
Sorry, back on topic.
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