OrthodoxChristianity.net
July 30, 2014, 09:37:39 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Orthodox Evangelism  (Read 2582 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Orthodoxy
Unworthy Servant
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of tthe West
Posts: 47


Pochaev, Mother of God


WWW
« on: February 17, 2005, 11:47:04 PM »

Hi Everyone,

I thought I would start a thread on Orthodox Evangelism. Being a polluted convert that continues to struggling with the left over of my protestant beast I am finding evangelism difficult in the orthodox faith. Honestly, I believe God has revealed a great and priceless gem to me. I do not want to squander and set this pearl before those that will just trash the faith. I want to find those that are truly hungry for God. I want to give this gem away but I fear my attempts have been “casting them before swine” trying to convince my poor duped reformist “brothers” that they are living the “great delusion” this day rejecting orthodoxy because they hate the Roman Church and it’s continued kaleidoscope of change. I would like some feed back on how we evangelise as Orthodox Christians.

Thanks for your replies.

In Christ,

Orthodoxy
Logged

"But if I say, I will not mention Him or speak any more in His name, His word is in my heart like burning fire, shut up in my bones. I am weary of holding it in; indeed I cannot" (Jeremiah 20:9)

http://www.housecheckinc.com
Nacho
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: EasternOrthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,482

The face of Corporate America


« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2005, 12:05:45 AM »

I don't think the Orthodox are really into evangelism. There may be a few books out there on the subject but as far as getting into the whole apologetics mode and programs aimed at proving we are right, I have never seen anything like this. The best thing you can do is just tell people what Orthodoxy is and let them decide.
Logged

"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world."--Mere Christianity
Ian Lazarus
The Main Man!
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: AOA
Posts: 1,545


yIjah, Qey' 'oH!


« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2005, 12:06:09 AM »

First of all, welcome Orthodoxy!

As a convy who also continues to learn and lean on God for the answers, and also has trouble letting go sometimes of his past affiliations, I can tell you only waht my priest said to me when I asked him these same questions. Live the life. Pray as often as you can. Ask for guidence of God and of your priest as well as your brothers and sisters. Attend Liturgy. Do good works, and show love and kindness to those all around you. And should one ask your view, dont be afraid. Answer as best you can. If you dont know, admit it. If they want to listen they will. If all they want is an arguement and to suck you into it, then simply leave it at you dont want to fight, and would be happy to discuss, but not yell and scream. Dont get taken, because as Orthodox, we may be able to argue our point, but the question is does it fall on good soil or deaf ears? In my experience with this, when people are yelling and debating, they arent listening. Some people are ready to hear the message, some are not. But the most important thing you can do in Orthodox evangelism is to be, as our Lord says "wise as serpents and harmelss as doves". Live the life. Love. you dont have to wear a big ol' sign on your neck tht says "I BE ORTHODOX!! DEAL!!" or a big Orthodox crucifix on your neck to advertise.  "Love God with all your heart and love your neighbour as you love yourself" as Christ commanded. Let God transform you. And pray that his will be done. And the message will get across in time.  Smiley

God Bless you, friend!


Ian Lazarus :grommit:  
Logged

"For I am With thee, withersoever thou goest"

Joshua 1:9
Nacho
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: EasternOrthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,482

The face of Corporate America


« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2005, 12:33:26 AM »

Ian, great post! I totally agree with everything you said. I used to really get in some heated debates with protestant or secular friends and I will no longer discuss religion with these people because I have found words are worthless and never works. If the person is open to Orthodoxy then the best thing to do is to take them to liturgy and take it step by step from there. The main thing for a person to find this truth is to "experience" it and that can only be done at the Liturgy. Reading books and talking to people is good but there is nothing on this earth such as the Liturgy because it's a taste of heaven and that's where we commune with Christ and the rest of the church. I used to be in my head so much that in order to experience something in my opinion I had to read, think and question everything lol. This stopped when the priest said to put down all your books and all I want you to do is come here and experience this for yourself. That's some of the best advice anyone has given me and it worked great. You can talk until you are blue in the face but some people will never get it. I have a friend who thinks he's a budhist now (of course a sheep that's just emulating his secular anti-christian professors at his college that also think they are budhist) and I have talked and argued with him for many years to no avail. I tried to get him come to liturgy and he's not even open to that idea. The truth of the matter is  don't waste your time with people like this because it's stressful and futile and the truth of the matter is if someone is truely open you shouldn't have to argue with them because Chirst is already preparing thier hearts for the truth and all you have to do is simply lead them like a horse to water Grin..     

Logged

"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world."--Mere Christianity
Ian Lazarus
The Main Man!
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: AOA
Posts: 1,545


yIjah, Qey' 'oH!


« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2005, 01:01:04 AM »

Quote
The truth of the matter is  don't waste your time with people like this because it's stressful and futile and the truth of the matter is if someone is truely open you shouldn't have to argue with them because Chirst is already preparing thier hearts for the truth and all you have to do is simply lead them like a horse to water ..     

And Bingo was his name-o!  Nice Job, Nacho!


Ian Lazarus :grommit:
Logged

"For I am With thee, withersoever thou goest"

Joshua 1:9
ania
Life according to Abe Simpson:
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,097



« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2005, 12:11:29 PM »

What about missionaries such as St. Herman & St. Tihon.  The Orthodox tend to evangelize in a non-direct way, living by example, and waiting for the people around them to ask, rather than to show up at random places saying "I'll teach you how to make rugs, but you gotta listen to me preach about a foreign god while we do it." 

Logged

Now where were we? Oh yeah - the important thing was I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn’t have white onions because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones...
Orthodoxy
Unworthy Servant
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of tthe West
Posts: 47


Pochaev, Mother of God


WWW
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2005, 09:33:47 PM »

Thanks everyone,

I must admit on line I am a bull dog for the orthodox faith when speaking with the heterodox. I believe when I preach the Holy Orthodox Church I am preaching Jesus Christ in His fulness. I have found my reformist upbringing a great advantage becuase I know the bible quite well from a knowledge stand point. From a Church interpretation stand point I have large amounts to learn and very rarely give my own opinion of doctrinal issues and beliefs without an arsenal of fatherly back up both anicent and modern. I run alot of my understanding of Church "beliefs" past my priest before I ever attempt to discribe the a church teaching to someone else.

This is my problem.

"But if I say, I will not mention Him or speak any more in His name, His word is in my heart like burning fire, shut up in my bones. I am weary of holding it in; indeed I cannot" (Jeremiah 20:9)

I simply cannot hold my passion for the orthodox Church to myself. I will spiritually explode.

I am learning. I know I have made alot of mistakes in my zealous attempt to convert the entire reformation. I will take all your advice to heart. I will love the "heterodox christian" people knowing I was living the "great delusion" once also. I will be merciful and patient, kind and longsuffering knowing my sins are more scarlet than the worst of any heterodox christian. The key is to focus on those that truely have a hunger for God and be like Ian Lazarus has said " wise as serpents and harmless as doves" seeking not to devour but to inform.

Thanks again for your response. Could I get some feed back on personal experiances some may have in showing people the Orthodox Church who are sick to death of the "dog and pony show" found in the heterodox faith?

Orthodoxy
« Last Edit: February 20, 2005, 09:40:30 PM by Orthodoxy » Logged

"But if I say, I will not mention Him or speak any more in His name, His word is in my heart like burning fire, shut up in my bones. I am weary of holding it in; indeed I cannot" (Jeremiah 20:9)

http://www.housecheckinc.com
cizinec
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 941


There ain't no way but the hard way.


« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2005, 02:23:29 PM »

Well, there are other models of Orthodox evangelism.

Don't forget Sts. Cyrill and Methodius and then those after St. Methodius (St. Gorazd, etc.)  who were kicked out of Moravia and went to the Balkans.  Don't forget the St. Gorazd of the last century in Prague.  He did a little more than just "live a holy life" regarding evangelism. 

I think some in the Orthodox world need to accept the fact that active conversions and evangelism isn't contrary or unfamiliar to Orthodoxy.  It may make some feel uncomfortable and it's not for everyone, but I think the insinuation that active evangelism isn't Orthodox is just plain wrong.

If you feel the need and desire to evangelize, as ALL churches should be doing, then do so in love and with consideration.  If someone doesn't want to listen then pray for them and move on.  But keep evangelizing.
Logged

"Brother, your best friend ain't your Momma, it's the Field Artillery."
cizinec
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 941


There ain't no way but the hard way.


« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2005, 02:33:22 PM »

This better illistrates my point.
Logged

"Brother, your best friend ain't your Momma, it's the Field Artillery."
Doubting Thomas
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 874

Anglican (but not Episcopagan)


« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2005, 02:48:02 PM »

This better illistrates my point.

Excellent.  Thanks for the link.
Logged

"My Lord and My God!"--Doubting Thomas, AD 33
Orthodoxy
Unworthy Servant
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of tthe West
Posts: 47


Pochaev, Mother of God


WWW
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2005, 04:32:54 PM »

cizinec,

Thank you for your words. Yes I get the impression sometimes that evangelism in Orthodoxy is some how wrong if we confront the error around us in the heterodox world. I think we are missing a great opportunity because America is just beginning to be evangelized in the orthodox faith. We truely are in furtile feilds of wheat in America and many know the faith at a basic level. I think we can do a better job in leading them from the shallow puddles to the depths of the ocean. There is a non demoninational church that has over 5000 parishoners. If 5000 people attended our orthodox Church in my city we would need to build 10 Churches!

Why are not our churches packed in America? This is not a slight on the Church but the reformation packs them in. I understand we do not entertain people which I would not change but surely people want to pray and what better place than in an orthodox Church. I like the small closeness of our community but they were baptising thousands in Jerusalem back in Peters and Pauls day, what changed? Here in America our doors should be brimming with people that just want to pray and worship God without the entertainment value. I truely think there are many "home aloners" that are going to burn out on "self directed worship" and seek a deeper relationship with God and when they do the Orthodox better be ready with welcoming joyous arms or they will simply let go of any faith they have. They will cast their silver in the streets to enter the ark. I want to be prepared for that day as an orthodox christian.

Thanks for the link. Very Good. Just as moses had a veil over his face because he shone with the light of God so to does the Orthodox face have a veil covering it's glory in the roman church. So how does one evangelise those that "have the gospel" in the "heterodox" world when they see the "roman church" in the face of orthodoxy?

In Christ,

Orthodoxy
« Last Edit: February 21, 2005, 04:47:49 PM by Orthodoxy » Logged

"But if I say, I will not mention Him or speak any more in His name, His word is in my heart like burning fire, shut up in my bones. I am weary of holding it in; indeed I cannot" (Jeremiah 20:9)

http://www.housecheckinc.com
mathetes
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Believer
Jurisdiction: MJAA
Posts: 161



« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2005, 06:58:32 AM »

I'm curious if Orthodox publishers ever produce Gospel tracts like those found in Christian bookstores.  The evangelical tracts I've seen aim to persuade people to make a decision for Christ.  I've never seen a tract designed not only to get a decision for Christ, but also to persuade people to be baptized and catechized and to participate in the sacraments.

The Orthodox tracts I've seen were geared toward Christians outside of Orthodoxy.

In Christ,
Mathetes
Logged

"Iron sharpens iron, and a man sharpens the countenance of his friend" (Proverbs 27:17 OSB).

"The future isn't what it used to be" (Yogi Berra).
orthodox4life
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA - Diocese of the South
Posts: 150



WWW
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2013, 04:34:31 PM »

I was wanting to talk about evangelism and found an old post I thought I'd bring back to life. I'm a little confused after reading the post. In general, is it the Orthodox way to evangelize by the example of our lives, only when people ask or is there any rule of thumb?

Keep in mind that when I speak of evangelism that I'm not talking just about talking to protestants, I'm talking about protestants and non-believers alike.
Logged

The true Orthodox way of thought has always been historical, has always included the past, but has never been enslaved by it. . . for the strength of the Church is not in the past, present, or future, but in Christ.

-Fr. Alexander Schmemann
xOrthodox4Christx
Warned
Archon
********
Online Online

Faith: Protestant (Inquirer)
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Christianity
Posts: 2,847



« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2013, 06:07:05 PM »

I think any method is fine as long as it's not rude, deceptive or "in-your-face preaching" those are things that stigmatize people. Protestant missionaries are like this. Just look at videos of Matt Slick, VenomFangx and Ray Comfort on Youtube and you'll see what I mean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJZOZMmQSV4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxYcWgEkl7c
Logged

"When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered.” -Martin Luther King Jr.
lovesupreme
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 736


Out of This World


« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2013, 06:42:10 PM »

I think any method is fine as long as it's not rude, deceptive or "in-your-face preaching" those are things that stigmatize people. Protestant missionaries are like this. Just look at videos of Matt Slick, VenomFangx and Ray Comfort on Youtube and you'll see what I mean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJZOZMmQSV4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxYcWgEkl7c

Yeah, stay far away from that.
Logged
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Online Online

Posts: 29,365


« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2013, 06:47:04 PM »

Ray Comfort merely preaches the truth, it is not his fault that the truth about fruit causes people nightmares.
Logged

There are many foolish priests out there.
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,186



« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2013, 06:49:48 PM »

Ray Comfort merely preaches the truth, it is not his fault that the truth about fruit causes people nightmares.

Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
lovesupreme
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 736


Out of This World


« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2013, 07:02:25 PM »

Evangelical street preachers like the ones in the videos above do more harm than good. They "save" people through manipulation; how many of these people, who the preachers regard as little more than notches on their belts, stay believers in the long run? Conversion by coercion is not conversion at all. Lord have mercy.

What's more, they only reinforce stereotypes that religious people are nosy, ignorant, Bible-thumpin' zealots who care more about salvation than the people who receive it.

This is what "religion" is offering people today. Is it any wonder why skepticism, atheism, agnosticism, etc. seem much more appealing?
Logged
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,186



« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2013, 07:03:54 PM »

I think any method is fine as long as it's not rude, deceptive or "in-your-face preaching" those are things that stigmatize people. Protestant missionaries are like this. Just look at videos of Matt Slick, VenomFangx and Ray Comfort on Youtube and you'll see what I mean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJZOZMmQSV4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxYcWgEkl7c

As a whole, I agree with you, but I did find this video to be a fairly useful explanation of Trinitarian doctrine.  Much better than most claptrap I see coming from evangelical circles. Plus, there are some really cool backgrounds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2ED27Wnv8w&list=TLV5EHXghTzoE
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
lovesupreme
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 736


Out of This World


« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2013, 07:07:07 PM »

And why would you ever have a YouTube channel devoted to your "witnessing" videos, if not to promote your own "good works" to others? These YouTube channels attract fans and followers who probably eagerly await the next updates. These people are building themselves up as prophets and evangelists, but who are the preachers who have stood the test of time? St. John the Baptist didn't have no YouTube channel, and he ushered in the frickin' Messiah. If God wants to speak through you, he's gonna do it, no matter how many hits or "likes" you get. Tongue
Logged
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Online Online

Posts: 29,365


« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2013, 07:07:55 PM »

^Is that some stuff VenomFangX came up with on his own, or is that ripped off verbatim from other people on the internet, like in other videos he did?  Cool
Logged

There are many foolish priests out there.
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Online Online

Posts: 29,365


« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2013, 07:09:43 PM »

I kid though, the guy wasn't all bad. Between scamming people out of money, lying, and plagiarizing, he actually had some funny stuff. LinkGrin
Logged

There are many foolish priests out there.
lovesupreme
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 736


Out of This World


« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2013, 07:14:22 PM »

I baptize you with water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. Subscribe to my videos, like my Facebook page, follow me on Twitter, get the word out #yolo
Logged
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Online Online

Posts: 29,365


« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2013, 07:14:36 PM »

Anyway, I'll cease and desist, I know this thread is about Orthodox evangelism, not my dislike of certain youtube personalities.  police
Logged

There are many foolish priests out there.
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,186



« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2013, 07:15:17 PM »

^Is that some stuff VenomFangX came up with on his own, or is that ripped off verbatim from other people on the internet, like in other videos he did?  Cool
I have no idea.  As a whole, I find youtube apologetics quite silly, so I that one caught my attention when it actually made some insightful points.
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
Hinterlander
Site Supporter
High Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 516


« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2013, 08:32:35 PM »

Live an Orthodox life brimming with spiritual fruit your friends can't deny.
Logged
mabsoota
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 2,422


Kyrie eleison


« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2013, 04:15:09 AM »

we have this:
http://evangelismcopticorthodox.org/home.html

my favourite lesson was the one about when to use words and when not to.
very balanced and sensitive.
 Smiley
Logged
Hinterlander
Site Supporter
High Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 516


« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2013, 08:38:04 AM »

I think any method is fine as long as it's not rude, deceptive or "in-your-face preaching" those are things that stigmatize people. Protestant missionaries are like this. Just look at videos of Matt Slick, VenomFangx and Ray Comfort on Youtube and you'll see what I mean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJZOZMmQSV4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxYcWgEkl7c

For the record, a huge number of Protestants would disagree with these strategies. 
Logged
bearpaws
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 20


« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2013, 08:19:14 PM »

Ray Comfort merely preaches the truth, it is not his fault that the truth about fruit causes people nightmares.


I still have nightmares with Ray trying to find places where banana is designed to fit into...    Lips Sealed


Quote
I can tell you only waht my priest said to me when I asked him these same questions. Live the life. Pray as often as you can. Ask for guidence of God and of your priest as well as your brothers and sisters. Attend Liturgy. Do good works, and show love and kindness to those all around you.


That's actual proper evangelism for me. Leading people into church by example, sharing good news with them, showing there is a better way they can lead their lifes. They will come to know more and eventually learn why exactly they sgouldn't be doing some things, they will adapt their culture according to their conscience, without flipping it upside down, Japan and St. Nikolai is a nice example of that.

On the other hand is proselytism, which just throws people away before they even have a chance to look at faith and . There is very strong proselytizing catholic wing in Poland publishing their "evangelization tool", monthly "Exorcist", which can be easily found after masses in churches tells you "first hand" about vampires, 3rd eyes, that horror movies, fantasy/sci-fi books, computer games, music, etc, etc are satanic and you are probably possessed by now. It produces very weird "breed" of christians, concentrated on looking for supernatural evil and witches everywhere, literally. Most of it goes against even roman theology or the Bible(you had suicide in family - satans coming for you, you fire incense sticks - they were probably 'sacrificed' to other gods, you dont have to know, satans coming!), when more experienced priests try to intervene, they got schooled and called anti-christians and devil advocates  Roll Eyes
Same goes for evangelical rapture-based missionaries... Maybe it's just me, but faith based on fear of satan instead of good news of gospels is very shallow. Evangelize is to spread good news, not terrible ones?




There is a nice article about evangelism - proselytism if anybody wanna read:
http://www.pravoslavie.ru/english/46414.htm

and a comment under the text, which is very nice 8-)

Quote
This reminds me of an exchange in Archimandrite Sophrony’s Saint Silouan of the Athonite:

‘Father Archimandrite, people feel in their souls when they are doing the proper thing, believing in Jesus Christ, revering the Mother of God and the Saints, whom they call upon in prayer, so if you condemn their faith they will not listen to you…. But if you were to confirm that they were doing well to believe in God and honor the Mother of God and the Saints; that they are right to go to church, and say their prayers at home, read the Divine word, and so on; and then gently point out their mistakes and show them what they ought to amend, then they would listen to you, and the Lord would rejoice over them. And this way by God’s mercy we shall all find salvation…. God is love, and therefore the preaching of His word must always proceed from love. Then both preacher and listener will profit. But if you do nothing but condemn, the soul of the people will not heed you, and no good will come of it.’


oh, forgot to add that I think Orthodox church should evangelise (or inform, publicize) a lot more, outside european countries with orthodox majority people just don't know/understand Orthodoxy. People can get informations online, but when confused person looks for 'christianity' on google, he will most likely land on well positioned apologetic sites which are most of the time very anti-RC, and since Orthodoxy in the west is seen as some kind of RC counterpart/offshoot, they cross it out alongside as wrong or heretical.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 08:40:59 PM by bearpaws » Logged
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.102 seconds with 55 queries.