Poll

Should all forms of dancing be banned?

Yes, all dancing arouses the passions.
No, folk dancing should be allowed.
No, only dirty dancing should be banned.
No, see my reply below.
I am not sure.

Author Topic: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?  (Read 2675 times)

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Offline Maria

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Should all forms of dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?

Personally, I see nothing wrong with modest traditional Greek folk dancing as is done in Greek Orthodox Churches.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 06:08:22 PM by Maria »
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Offline ZealousZeal

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Re: Should dancing be banned?
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2013, 06:07:05 PM »
Banned in what way and for whom?
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Offline hecma925

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Re: Should dancing be banned?
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2013, 06:08:42 PM »
And who is doing the banning?
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Offline Maria

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Re: Should dancing be banned?
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2013, 06:10:45 PM »
And who is doing the banning?

Good question. The parish council and the priest? The hierarchs?

Frankly, I do not see anyone banning dancing of any kind.

This whole idea of banning dancing would become too delicate an issue. If people feared that they might be tapped on the shoulder and asked to leave a dance, this action might chase people away from the church permanently.

« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 06:34:25 PM by Maria »
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Should dancing be banned?
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2013, 06:11:05 PM »
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Should dancing be banned?
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2013, 06:11:59 PM »

It would be too delicate, and would chase people away.

IOW, the ban itself would create a dance?
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Offline ZealousZeal

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Re: Should dancing be banned?
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2013, 06:12:12 PM »
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:D :D :D

I LOLed for real.
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Offline hecma925

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2013, 06:14:00 PM »
Is the prohibition on any dance on church property or anywhere and at all times?
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Offline Maria

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2013, 06:16:54 PM »
Is the prohibition on any dance on church property or anywhere and at all times?

Hey, this is not a scientific poll.

But if you read the thread title, you would know that I referred to church events on church property.
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2013, 06:25:10 PM »
on church property, in early fifties, stalinist romania:

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2013, 06:34:22 PM »
on church property, in early fifties, stalinist romania:


Oh man, those ankles are riling up my passions real bad.
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Offline Maria

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Re: Should dancing be banned?
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2013, 06:42:10 PM »

It would be too delicate, and would chase people away.

IOW, the ban itself would create a dance?

I bet it would! Now they would need a band to play this banned.
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Offline Maria

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2013, 07:05:59 PM »
on church property, in early fifties, stalinist romania:


Definitely 50s in style. Nice shot.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 07:06:49 PM by Maria »
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Offline WPM

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2013, 07:11:40 PM »
If you don't like dancing, you're way too conservative.

Offline augustin717

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2013, 07:13:09 PM »
If you don't like dancing, you're way too conservative.
conservative of what? way too stupid, rather.

Offline Maria

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2013, 07:27:04 PM »
If you don't like dancing, you're way too conservative.
conservative of what? way too stupid, rather.

Many Baptists do not think that dancing of any kind is acceptable for a Christian.

Did not some of the Church Fathers also condemn dancing?
Or was dancing related to prostitution at that time?
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 07:27:45 PM by Maria »
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Offline hecma925

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2013, 07:28:37 PM »
Many Baptists do not think that dancing of any kind is acceptable for a Christian.
Nor drinking, but they do both in secret.
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2013, 07:29:25 PM »
it's bc dancing leads to sex; and sex to dancing.

Online Gamliel

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2013, 07:35:43 PM »
If dancing was the worst thing we had to worry about, we would be in paradise.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Should dancing be banned?
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2013, 07:54:33 PM »
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I'm afraid orthonorm won the thread.
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2013, 07:55:20 PM »
As clarification, what is "dirty dancing"?  I assume you are not referring to the movie?
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Offline Maria

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2013, 08:22:38 PM »
As clarification, what is "dirty dancing"?  I assume you are not referring to the movie?

What is your definition of dirty dancing?

If you have ever watched Dancing with the Stars, whenever the judges rule a dance to be hot and sexy and fall off their chairs, that is probably dirty dancing.
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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2013, 08:23:35 PM »
If that ever happened in a festival at my parish, I'd be pretty surprised.
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Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2013, 08:25:21 PM »
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2013, 08:25:50 PM »
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.

Too late. :)
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2013, 08:26:58 PM »
As clarification, what is "dirty dancing"?  I assume you are not referring to the movie?

What is your definition of dirty dancing?

If you have ever watched Dancing with the Stars, whenever the judges rule a dance to be hot and sexy and fall off their chairs, that is probably dirty dancing.
I've never watched the show.  Perhaps I shall do so now for research purposes.
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Offline Maria

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2013, 08:29:50 PM »
If that ever happened in a festival at my parish, I'd be pretty surprised.

At our local Greek Orthodox Church, at the worker's party which follows the festival, some wild dancing occurs as the party winds down. Since the priests have left, some couples really go at it. Nobody does anything.

However, worse than dancing at church, are the movies that Hollywood continues to pump out. Movies with a PG or PG-13 rating make some Orthodox Christian grandma's and great grandma's blush. When I talked with our Greek Matriarch a few weeks ago, she said that she refuses to watch the recent movies. She finds that they lack entertainment value with all the shocking incidents portrayed.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 08:31:19 PM by Maria »
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2013, 08:32:50 PM »
If that ever happened in a festival at my parish, I'd be pretty surprised.

At our local Greek Orthodox Church, at the worker's party which follows the festival, some wild dancing occurs as the party winds down. Since the priests have left, some couples really go at it. Nobody does anything.

However, worse than dancing at church, are the movies that Hollywood continues to pump out. Movies with a PG or PG-13 rating make some Orthodox Christian grandma's and great grandma's blush. When I talked with our Greek Matriarch a few weeks ago, she said that she refuses to watch the recent movies. She finds that they lack entertainment value with all the shocking incidents portrayed.
This happens at your Greek Festivals?!?!?  :o :o :o



I would probably have an issue with that.
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2013, 08:33:53 PM »
As clarification, what is "dirty dancing"?  I assume you are not referring to the movie?

What is your definition of dirty dancing?

If you have ever watched Dancing with the Stars, whenever the judges rule a dance to be hot and sexy and fall off their chairs, that is probably dirty dancing.
I've never watched the show.  Perhaps I shall do so now for research purposes.
You should read the thread on dancing in One World Orthodoxy or whatever on the less sane board.

There is a link somewhere in the rudeness thread a few pages back. Yes, I am being a lazy internetter.
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2013, 08:34:26 PM »
If that ever happened in a festival at my parish, I'd be pretty surprised.

At our local Greek Orthodox Church, at the worker's party which follows the festival, some wild dancing occurs as the party winds down. Since the priests have left, some couples really go at it. Nobody does anything.

However, worse than dancing at church, are the movies that Hollywood continues to pump out. Movies with a PG or PG-13 rating make some Orthodox Christian grandma's and great grandma's blush. When I talked with our Greek Matriarch a few weeks ago, she said that she refuses to watch the recent movies. She finds that they lack entertainment value with all the shocking incidents portrayed.
This happens at your Greek Festivals?!?!?  :o :o :o



I would probably have an issue with that.

Just during the Weddings. They put their clothes on for the receptions.
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Offline lovesupreme

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2013, 08:36:52 PM »
Orthodox Jews separate dancing by sex; they even put up a screen to prevent the one sex (the men) from peaking on the other sex.

Offline ZealousZeal

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2013, 08:38:04 PM »
Orthodox Jews separate dancing by sex; they even put up a screen to prevent the one sex (the men) from peaking on the other sex.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there also a rule about hearing the opposite sex sing?
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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2013, 08:39:39 PM »
As clarification, what is "dirty dancing"?  I assume you are not referring to the movie?

What is your definition of dirty dancing?

If you have ever watched Dancing with the Stars, whenever the judges rule a dance to be hot and sexy and fall off their chairs, that is probably dirty dancing.
I've never watched the show.  Perhaps I shall do so now for research purposes.

My mother watches this faithfully.  Anytime I've been forced to watch it with her on visits, it's an ascetic podvig on so many levels: custody of the eyes, patient endurance of wrongs, respect for parents, etc. 
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Offline GabrieltheCelt

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2013, 08:40:14 PM »
on church property, in early fifties, stalinist romania:


 Except they ain't dancing.  Is that you in the center?
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Offline lovesupreme

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2013, 08:42:35 PM »
Orthodox Jews separate dancing by sex; they even put up a screen to prevent the one sex (the men) from peaking on the other sex.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there also a rule about hearing the opposite sex sing?

Men cannot hear women sing, but women can hear men sing.

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2013, 08:42:43 PM »
If that ever happened in a festival at my parish, I'd be pretty surprised.

At our local Greek Orthodox Church, at the worker's party which follows the festival, some wild dancing occurs as the party winds down. Since the priests have left, some couples really go at it. Nobody does anything.

I saw my first "twerk" at a GOA parish hall.  I will never forget it: I've tried.
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Offline ZealousZeal

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2013, 08:43:11 PM »
Orthodox Jews separate dancing by sex; they even put up a screen to prevent the one sex (the men) from peaking on the other sex.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there also a rule about hearing the opposite sex sing?

Men cannot hear women sing, but women can hear men sing.

Ah, I remember that now. Thank you.
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Offline lovesupreme

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2013, 08:46:48 PM »
If that ever happened in a festival at my parish, I'd be pretty surprised.

At our local Greek Orthodox Church, at the worker's party which follows the festival, some wild dancing occurs as the party winds down. Since the priests have left, some couples really go at it. Nobody does anything.

I saw my first "twerk" at a GOA parish hall.  I will never forget it: I've tried.

Wow. That's something else.

I mean, I don't always conduct myself well in my parish hall, but whenever the urge to say something wildly inappropriate comes (as it does often), I can at least remind myself that I'm at church... maybe that isn't so much of an assurance anymore?

Offline Maria

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2013, 08:49:50 PM »
Yes, all dancing arouses the passions.    - 2 (14.3%)
No, folk dancing should be allowed.    - 3 (21.4%)
No, only dirty dancing should be banned.    - 6 (42.9%)
No, see my reply below.    - 3 (21.4%)
I am not sure.    - 0 (0%)
   
Total Voters: 11

I am posting the poll results for those who have not yet voted.

Two said that all dancing arouses the passions. Really?
Even folk dancing?
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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #39 on: October 22, 2013, 08:54:38 PM »
If that ever happened in a festival at my parish, I'd be pretty surprised.

At our local Greek Orthodox Church, at the worker's party which follows the festival, some wild dancing occurs as the party winds down. Since the priests have left, some couples really go at it. Nobody does anything.

I saw my first "twerk" at a GOA parish hall.  I will never forget it: I've tried.

Wow. That's something else.

I mean, I don't always conduct myself well in my parish hall, but whenever the urge to say something wildly inappropriate comes (as it does often), I can at least remind myself that I'm at church... maybe that isn't so much of an assurance anymore?

Nope.  The twerking occurred directly in front of me, and I was seated with priests.  

I've also seen married couples cuddling excessively on the line for Communion.  By excessive, I mean it was arguably the initial phase of foreplay.  But that was a different EO jurisdiction.

Sometimes, I'm scared of being in communion with you all.  :P      
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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #40 on: October 22, 2013, 08:56:04 PM »
Two said that all dancing arouses the passions. Really?
Even folk dancing?

I suppose it depends on how restrictively you're defining "the passions".  Lust isn't the only one that could be aroused by dancing. 
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Offline Maria

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #41 on: October 22, 2013, 08:56:26 PM »
If that ever happened in a festival at my parish, I'd be pretty surprised.

At our local Greek Orthodox Church, at the worker's party which follows the festival, some wild dancing occurs as the party winds down. Since the priests have left, some couples really go at it. Nobody does anything.

I saw my first "twerk" at a GOA parish hall.  I will never forget it: I've tried.

Wow. That's something else.

I mean, I don't always conduct myself well in my parish hall, but whenever the urge to say something wildly inappropriate comes (as it does often), I can at least remind myself that I'm at church... maybe that isn't so much of an assurance anymore?

Nope.  The twerking occurred directly in front of me, and I was seated with priests.  

I've also seen married couples cuddling excessively on the line for Communion.  By excessive, I mean it was arguably the initial phase of foreplay.  But that was a different EO jurisdiction.

Sometimes, I'm scared of being in communion with you all.  :P      

Lord have mercy.
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Offline Shiny

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #42 on: October 22, 2013, 08:56:57 PM »
That does remind me of a joke folks used to tell about how Baptists frowned on pre-marital sex because it might lead to such carnal desires as dancing.
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #43 on: October 22, 2013, 08:57:57 PM »
Quote
Except they ain't dancing.  Is that you in the center?
what do you think they dressed up for? every sunday-lent excluded- there was dancing in the churchyard.

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #44 on: October 22, 2013, 08:58:28 PM »
Two said that all dancing arouses the passions. Really?
Even folk dancing?

I suppose it depends on how restrictively you're defining "the passions".  Lust isn't the only one that could be aroused by dancing. 

Or lack of it.
Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.

Offline Maria

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #45 on: October 22, 2013, 08:59:50 PM »
Two said that all dancing arouses the passions. Really?
Even folk dancing?

I suppose it depends on how restrictively you're defining "the passions".  Lust isn't the only one that could be aroused by dancing.  

I guess the father of a young unmarried woman and/or her ex-boyfriend could become extremely angry and ready to kill if they witnessed such dirty dancing or any close romantic dancing.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 09:00:19 PM by Maria »
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Offline Shiny

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #46 on: October 22, 2013, 09:04:06 PM »
Can we go back to talking about people being upset over women wearing mantillas in church?
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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #47 on: October 22, 2013, 09:05:55 PM »
Can we go back to talking about people being upset over women wearing mantillas in church?

Hey, let's talk about the dance costumes used in Greek Orthodox folk dancing.

The girls and ladies wear some fancy scarves. And since they are quite modest, I do not see how Greek Orthodox folk dancing could arouse the passions.

The guys sometimes wear those fancy white skirts, perhaps those cause a rise in passions among the young ladies. I was never tempted by them as I was always looking at their fancy footwork and trying to imitate their dance. I love dancing.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 09:07:46 PM by Maria »
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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #48 on: October 22, 2013, 09:35:14 PM »
If that ever happened in a festival at my parish, I'd be pretty surprised.

At our local Greek Orthodox Church, at the worker's party which follows the festival, some wild dancing occurs as the party winds down. Since the priests have left, some couples really go at it. Nobody does anything.

I saw my first "twerk" at a GOA parish hall.  I will never forget it: I've tried.

Wow. That's something else.

I mean, I don't always conduct myself well in my parish hall, but whenever the urge to say something wildly inappropriate comes (as it does often), I can at least remind myself that I'm at church... maybe that isn't so much of an assurance anymore?

Nope.  The twerking occurred directly in front of me, and I was seated with priests.  

I've also seen married couples cuddling excessively on the line for Communion.  By excessive, I mean it was arguably the initial phase of foreplay.  But that was a different EO jurisdiction.

Sometimes, I'm scared of being in communion with you all.  :P      

I know you're joking, but let's be clear: it's those Coptic women you have to really watch out for!

Mor, what do you wear when you attend an EO church?

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Re: Should dancing be banned?
« Reply #49 on: October 22, 2013, 09:49:34 PM »
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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #50 on: October 22, 2013, 09:59:26 PM »
I know you're joking, but let's be clear: it's those Coptic women you have to really watch out for!

Really?  I wouldn't have thought so, as they've ignored me for years.  :P

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Mor, what do you wear when you attend an EO church?

I'm going to be serious because I'm not sure if you're joking.  These days, usually a shirt/tie/pants/nice shoes or, if I'm feeling lazy, a nice sweater instead of the shirt/tie, all else being the same. 

What do you wear when you attend an EO church? 
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Offline lovesupreme

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #51 on: October 22, 2013, 10:11:52 PM »
I know you're joking, but let's be clear: it's those Coptic women you have to really watch out for!

Really?  I wouldn't have thought so, as they've ignored me for years.  :P

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Mor, what do you wear when you attend an EO church?

I'm going to be serious because I'm not sure if you're joking.  These days, usually a shirt/tie/pants/nice shoes or, if I'm feeling lazy, a nice sweater instead of the shirt/tie, all else being the same. 

What do you wear when you attend an EO church? 

Shirt, pants, black shoes, belt on Sundays. Admittedly, I wear jeans and a button-down shirt for Great Vespers since I'm usually coming straight from catechism then.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 10:12:00 PM by lovesupreme »

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #52 on: October 22, 2013, 10:16:33 PM »
Shirt, pants, black shoes, belt on Sundays. Admittedly, I wear jeans and a button-down shirt for Great Vespers since I'm usually coming straight from catechism then.

Admittedly, I'm more flexible with Saturday evening than with Sunday morning.  But on weekends I'm usually wearing clothes I would feel comfortable entering church with anyway.
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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #53 on: October 23, 2013, 12:43:07 AM »
As clarification, what is "dirty dancing"?  I assume you are not referring to the movie?

What is your definition of dirty dancing?

If you have ever watched Dancing with the Stars, whenever the judges rule a dance to be hot and sexy and fall off their chairs, that is probably dirty dancing.
I've never watched the show.  Perhaps I shall do so now for research purposes.

The next show will be on Monday night at 8 PM PDT on ABC. Not surprising.
I usually do not watch it, but my husband is addicted to it.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 12:44:21 AM by Maria »
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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #54 on: October 23, 2013, 01:51:59 AM »
I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Music leads to dancing, and dancing inevitably leads to mixed bathing.



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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #55 on: October 23, 2013, 01:58:57 AM »
Maria, in regard to your thought on folk dancing, it might depend on what kind. I attended an IOCC dinner six years back where part of the official entertainment included a group of Arab-American teenaged girls performing a  traditional middle eastern dance (belly dance) that I thought was quite provocative considering there were bishops and priests in attendance. And even though the girls were dressed modestly in long, middle eastern kaftans, the Greek bishop remarked afterwards that the Greek boys should get to know those Arab girls because that would be a great way to encourage Orthodox unity in America. The whole situation was just terribly embarrassing.

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #56 on: October 23, 2013, 02:26:25 AM »
Reading this thread with my jaws opened.

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #57 on: October 23, 2013, 02:29:10 AM »
Maria, in regard to your thought on folk dancing, it might depend on what kind. I attended an IOCC dinner six years back where part of the official entertainment included a group of Arab-American teenaged girls performing a  traditional middle eastern dance (belly dance) that I thought was quite provocative considering there were bishops and priests in attendance. And even though the girls were dressed modestly in long, middle eastern kaftans, the Greek bishop remarked afterwards that the Greek boys should get to know those Arab girls because that would be a great way to encourage Orthodox unity in America. The whole situation was just terribly embarrassing.

I agree with you. After their events, the Melkites and Antiochians will typically have belly dancing before which the Bishop(s) and priests will leave for obvious reasons. It is embarrassing.

I do not consider the traditional Middle Eastern belly dancing to be part of European folk dancing.  When we studied American square dancing and European folk dancing in high school, belly dancing was not part of the curriculum.

By the way, there is an American Protestant convert to Greek Orthodoxy who is allowed to teach Middle Eastern belly dancing at a local Greek Orthodox Church (GOARCH). The costumes that the children and young ladies wear are much too revealing with basically a bra and transparent skirt. Yes, the men of the parish enjoy it and want her classes to perform in the church hall for certain events, but the groups of ladies only perform when the priests and bishop(s) have excused themselves and are not in the hall.

At Pascha dinners, these gals would go to other nearby parishes when they are invited by their boyfriends. At those dances, they request certain Arabic songs. Therefore, they have introduced this type of dancing to the other Greek parishes, and it is becoming very popular. Indeed, even though it is very sensual, the parish councils will not do anything about it because most parish council members are nominal Orthodox Christians.

Once when a parish wide council meeting had just ended, I was standing outside chatting with some of the council members, and several of them mentioned that they had not been to confession in at least ten years and had no intention of doing so. The priest was trying to encourage them, but it was like talking to the wall.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 02:37:18 AM by Maria »
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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #58 on: October 23, 2013, 02:48:21 AM »
Could this be why some of the Church Fathers condemned dancing?

Certainly belly dancing has been done for thousands of years in the Middle East as Herod beheaded St. John the Forerunner due to the sensual dancing of Herodias' daughter when he told her that she could have whatever she asked including up to half of his kingdom.

If a saint could be beheaded, what else could happen when sensual dances are performed?
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 02:52:50 AM by Maria »
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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #59 on: October 23, 2013, 02:52:10 AM »
If you don't like dancing, you're way too conservative.
conservative of what? way too stupid, rather.

I'm not into dancing much.

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #60 on: October 23, 2013, 02:57:51 AM »

I do not consider the traditional Middle Eastern belly dancing to be part of European folk dancing.  

Then you must be unaware of the dance called tsifteteli, part of the repertoire of traditional folk dances of many of the Greek islands, and of the Greeks from Asia Minor.
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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #61 on: October 23, 2013, 03:01:52 AM »

I do not consider the traditional Middle Eastern belly dancing to be part of European folk dancing.  

Then you must be unaware of the dance called tsifteteli, part of the repertoire of traditional folk dances of many of the Greek islands, and of the Greeks from Asia Minor.

No, I am not aware of the dance called tsifteteli. The ladies who were in charge of teaching dancing to the Greek students only allowed modest dancing such as the grapevine. However, they also danced to the music, "Never on a Sunday," which is not the best of songs, but it is very popular.
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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #62 on: October 23, 2013, 03:03:06 AM »
Reading this thread with my jaws opened.

ditto

quite revealing isn't it!
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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #63 on: October 23, 2013, 03:08:11 AM »
No; it makes us appear too fringe-group restorationist-y to the American public. I think that certain concessions need to strategically be made for the sake of appealing to potential American converts.
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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #64 on: October 23, 2013, 03:08:11 AM »
I think Miley Cyrus' VMA performance should suffice as an adequate example of dirty dancing  ;D

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #65 on: October 23, 2013, 03:08:11 AM »
Anyhow, for the record, I voted "unsure."

Maria says that some "traditional folk" forms of dancing don't arouse the passions. I disagree. If you're a male with a pulse, seeing a young female rapidly moving her body around will arouse the passions in you regardless of whatever she's wearing or however she's moving. To some degree, it may even arouse more passion within because it seems exotic and requires use of the imagination. Seeing Orthodox women in head-coverings does this for me.

I think that we can either ban all dancing or allow all dancing. There is no in between. People are not going to follow exact rules and wherever there is dancing, there is alcohol. And wherever there is alcohol, no one is going to regard the rules anymore. Enforcing a "no dirty dancing" policy will be almost impossible.
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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #66 on: October 23, 2013, 03:12:19 AM »
Reading this thread with my jaws opened.

ditto

quite revealing isn't it!

I meant your posts. Too surreal to be serious.

Maria says that some "traditional folk" forms of dancing don't arouse the passions. I disagree. If you're a male with a pulse, seeing a young female rapidly moving her body around will arouse the passions in you regardless of whatever she's wearing or however she's moving.

Agreed. False dichotomy between allegedly prudish folk and fallen modern cultures come from people who know hardly nothing about folk culture to begin with. I know some folk songs that would make Cyrus blush.

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« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 03:51:24 AM by Psalti Boy »

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #68 on: October 23, 2013, 04:31:24 AM »
I wish people would stop taking their cues on what Latin and ballroom dance is like from Dancing with the Stars. Really, it's embarrassing.

The dances on DWTS (and its British version, Strictly Come Dancing) are performance pieces optimised for competition, not good-time social occasions. They are embellished to within an inch of their lives for entertainment. Do you believe that all those lifts and spins are possible when you're sharing the dance floor with twenty other couples? Or that in Latin America, where the samba and the cha-cha-cha actually are as good as folk dances, people put on spandex and sequins to dance? You might as well believe real life is as Hollywood dictates.

I actually believe that ballroom dancing should be encouraged, perhaps even by the parish offering classes. Learning some intricate footwork leaves little chance for bumping and grinding. I wouldn't find either this or this (both from the current Strictly series) inappropriate for a church-hosted function.
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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #69 on: October 23, 2013, 04:45:07 AM »
I am not exactly sure what the Orthodox halls and festivals are. Sounds like they should be banned.  :)
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 05:01:41 AM by IoanC »

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #70 on: October 23, 2013, 10:34:37 AM »
Reading this thread with my jaws opened.

ditto

quite revealing isn't it!

I meant your posts. Too surreal to be serious.

Maria says that some "traditional folk" forms of dancing don't arouse the passions. I disagree. If you're a male with a pulse, seeing a young female rapidly moving her body around will arouse the passions in you regardless of whatever she's wearing or however she's moving.

Agreed. False dichotomy between allegedly prudish folk and fallen modern cultures come from people who know hardly nothing about folk culture to begin with. I know some folk songs that would make Cyrus blush.

+1  There is a difference between fun and licentiousness. Believe it or not, fun is not discouraged by our faith for those of us who are living in the real world.

Excess is always a problem.

Use the head the good Lord gave you to figure it out. It's there for more than to place a hat or mitre upon.

« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 10:35:06 AM by podkarpatska »

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #71 on: October 23, 2013, 10:43:14 AM »
Reading this thread with my jaws opened.

ditto

quite revealing isn't it!

I meant your posts. Too surreal to be serious.

Maria says that some "traditional folk" forms of dancing don't arouse the passions. I disagree. If you're a male with a pulse, seeing a young female rapidly moving her body around will arouse the passions in you regardless of whatever she's wearing or however she's moving.

Agreed. False dichotomy between allegedly prudish folk and fallen modern cultures come from people who know hardly nothing about folk culture to begin with. I know some folk songs that would make Cyrus blush.

+1  There is a difference between fun and licentiousness. Believe it or not, fun is not discouraged by our faith for those of us who are living in the real world.

Excess is always a problem.

Use the head the good Lord gave you to figure it out. It's there for more than to place a hat or mitre upon.



I agree. I believe Orthodoxy should not really mix the dances with Orthodoxy (as in liturgical life). The parish can have parties and dances if they wish, but they would not be named Orthodox. Whether the dances arouse passions, this can be a different and interesting (absolutely funny :)!) discussion.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 10:43:56 AM by IoanC »

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #72 on: October 23, 2013, 11:02:06 AM »
Reading this thread with my jaws opened.

ditto

quite revealing isn't it!

I meant your posts. Too surreal to be serious.

Maria says that some "traditional folk" forms of dancing don't arouse the passions. I disagree. If you're a male with a pulse, seeing a young female rapidly moving her body around will arouse the passions in you regardless of whatever she's wearing or however she's moving.

Agreed. False dichotomy between allegedly prudish folk and fallen modern cultures come from people who know hardly nothing about folk culture to begin with. I know some folk songs that would make Cyrus blush.

+1  There is a difference between fun and licentiousness. Believe it or not, fun is not discouraged by our faith for those of us who are living in the real world.

Excess is always a problem.

Use the head the good Lord gave you to figure it out. It's there for more than to place a hat or mitre upon.



I agree. I believe Orthodoxy should not really mix the dances with Orthodoxy (as in liturgical life). The parish can have parties and dances if they wish, but they would not be named Orthodox. Whether the dances arouse passions, this can be a different and interesting (absolutely funny :)!) discussion.


I've never seen folk dancers described as performing 'Orthodox Dances.'

I've seen and enjoyed Ukrainian, Rusyn, Slovak, Hungarian, Romanian, Greek, Serbian and Bulgarian Dance Groups at Orthodox parishes (and Greek Catholic ones as well) but never did they have any religious connotations ascribed to them. Often these groups are part of the community outreach, youth activities or family based services provided by the parish. In some places they are sponsored by fraternal associations loosely associated with the parish or the Diocese (like GOYA, UOL, FOCA or ACRY),  but never have I seen any dance choreographed to represent the teachings of the church here or in Europe in any eastern Christian church.

Is this a common misunderstanding among convert? I can't see how that could be, but then again, nothing in America surprises me any more when it comes to matters of misunderstanding the religion of one's own church and that of others.


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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #73 on: October 23, 2013, 11:23:16 AM »

All Ukrainians (in good health/non-clergy) dance.  Once you hear the tunes start, your feet just come alive and you are off!

However, most Ukrainian folk dances do not ignite the passions in a way akin to what was mentioned above.

In fact, it's just good old camaraderie!

As for them being called "Orthodox" dances....never heard such a thing.  The same Ukrainian dances are performed by all Ukrainians, regardless of which Faith they adhere to, if any.

It's a cultural thing, not a Faith based activity.

....and the costumes are always modest.  Ukrainian national dress has everything well covered and is loose fitting.  Very proper.

Take a look:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74bUC15XobE

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #74 on: October 23, 2013, 11:26:45 AM »
Anyhow, for the record, I voted "unsure."

Maria says that some "traditional folk" forms of dancing don't arouse the passions. I disagree. If you're a male with a pulse, seeing a young female rapidly moving her body around will arouse the passions in you regardless of whatever she's wearing or however she's moving. To some degree, it may even arouse more passion within because it seems exotic and requires use of the imagination. Seeing Orthodox women in head-coverings does this for me.

I think that we can either ban all dancing or allow all dancing. There is no in between. People are not going to follow exact rules and wherever there is dancing, there is alcohol. And wherever there is alcohol, no one is going to regard the rules anymore. Enforcing a "no dirty dancing" policy will be almost impossible.

Allowing dancing without the dirty dancing is like allowing one to post here without rudeness.
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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #75 on: October 23, 2013, 11:28:56 AM »

I think that would be the ultimate goal in both.
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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #76 on: October 23, 2013, 02:48:41 PM »
I have a friend who is a professional dancer who quietly declined when someone suggested she bellydance at a reception/fundraiser coinciding with a bishop’s visit.

She ultimately ended up doing some kind of dance involving very long scarves while wearing a conservative outfit. All of the children around joined in. Much mirth was had.
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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #77 on: October 23, 2013, 02:51:43 PM »

Good for her!
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Offline Maria

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #78 on: October 23, 2013, 03:03:42 PM »
I have a friend who is a professional dancer who quietly declined when someone suggested she bellydance at a reception/fundraiser coinciding with a bishop’s visit.

She ultimately ended up doing some kind of dance involving very long scarves while wearing a conservative outfit. All of the children around joined in. Much mirth was had.


Dancing can be done modestly.

Posting can be done without rudeness and without a mean spirit.

We are called by Christ to be his disciples, to reach theosis, and ultimately to be heirs of the heavenly kingdom.

"It is possible for human beings to be holy ... to be a son of God ... all these things are possible."
-- Father Thomas Hopko, Ancient Faith Radio October 23, 2013
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 03:05:18 PM by Maria »
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Offline JamesR

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #79 on: October 23, 2013, 04:22:12 PM »
Maria, you don't get it; you're not a man. There is no such thing as "modest" dancing. Whenever a woman is moving her body around it is going to inflame passions within us males. I don't care if she's wearing an astronaut space suit; men are going to be attracted.
Quote
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
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James, you have problemz.

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #80 on: October 23, 2013, 06:09:25 PM »
Maria, you don't get it; you're not a man. There is no such thing as "modest" dancing. Whenever a woman is moving her body around it is going to inflame passions within us males. I don't care if she's wearing an astronaut space suit; men are going to be attracted.

God willing, someday you will not be a teenager or young adult male. :)

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #81 on: October 23, 2013, 06:13:43 PM »
Maria, you don't get it; you're not a man. There is no such thing as "modest" dancing. Whenever a woman is moving her body around it is going to inflame passions within us males. I don't care if she's wearing an astronaut space suit; men are going to be attracted.

God willing, someday you will not be a teenager or young adult male. :)
+1

JamesR, no offense, dancing does not excite me.  Maybe 17 yr old kids will be attracted given their relatively higher libido, but once you are in your 30s, I'm way more excited over the prospect of eating a piece of pie or some cookies than I am over some girl dancing.  Unless she is scantily clothed.  Then that is going to catch my attention unfortunately.  :(
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Offline Maria

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #82 on: October 23, 2013, 06:21:00 PM »
Maria, you don't get it; you're not a man. There is no such thing as "modest" dancing. Whenever a woman is moving her body around it is going to inflame passions within us males. I don't care if she's wearing an astronaut space suit; men are going to be attracted.

When I took a tour of a Catholic home for the aged many years ago with a group of young ladies who were thinking of volunteering or working there, the nun in charge told us, "These elderly men may look old, but they are certainly not dead." She chuckled and then told us to be very careful.

When I was student teaching, we were told to dress very modestly and always wear a vest or jacket over our blouse because some autistic boys, teens, and men will try to touch a woman who is not appropriately covered.
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Offline Maria

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #83 on: October 23, 2013, 06:24:31 PM »

All Ukrainians (in good health/non-clergy) dance.  Once you hear the tunes start, your feet just come alive and you are off!

However, most Ukrainian folk dances do not ignite the passions in a way akin to what was mentioned above.

In fact, it's just good old camaraderie!

As for them being called "Orthodox" dances....never heard such a thing.  The same Ukrainian dances are performed by all Ukrainians, regardless of which Faith they adhere to, if any.

It's a cultural thing, not a Faith based activity.

....and the costumes are always modest.  Ukrainian national dress has everything well covered and is loose fitting.  Very proper.

Take a look:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74bUC15XobE



Yes, the Greek and Ukrainian national dress used in traditional folk dancing is usually very modest. It can be quite a lot of fun.
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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #84 on: October 23, 2013, 07:24:53 PM »
Maria, you don't get it; you're not a man. There is no such thing as "modest" dancing. Whenever a woman is moving her body around it is going to inflame passions within us males. I don't care if she's wearing an astronaut space suit; men are going to be attracted.

God willing, someday you will not be a teenager or young adult male. :)
+1

JamesR, no offense, dancing does not excite me.  Maybe 17 yr old kids will be attracted given their relatively higher libido, but once you are in your 30s, I'm way more excited over the prospect of eating a piece of pie or some cookies than I am over some girl dancing.  Unless she is scantily clothed.  Then that is going to catch my attention unfortunately.  :(

Man, this true.  Yeah, if I'm having dessert with my wife, I could care less about some random girl dancing like a fool.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

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Offline Maria

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #85 on: October 23, 2013, 07:26:12 PM »
Maria, you don't get it; you're not a man. There is no such thing as "modest" dancing. Whenever a woman is moving her body around it is going to inflame passions within us males. I don't care if she's wearing an astronaut space suit; men are going to be attracted.

God willing, someday you will not be a teenager or young adult male. :)
+1

JamesR, no offense, dancing does not excite me.  Maybe 17 yr old kids will be attracted given their relatively higher libido, but once you are in your 30s, I'm way more excited over the prospect of eating a piece of pie or some cookies than I am over some girl dancing.  Unless she is scantily clothed.  Then that is going to catch my attention unfortunately.  :(

Man, this true.  Yeah, if I'm having dessert with my wife, I could care less about some random girl dancing like a fool.

Yes, my husband is delighted to have a piece of apple pie a la mode.
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Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #86 on: October 23, 2013, 07:37:27 PM »
Lets see , you can get married in the church , but no passionate dancing afterwards, I played drums all over Chicago in greek bands and in Church halls, that would be thrown out with the Bishop if it were made a rule.

I think that God already said to not only let them dance and drink, but give the drunks more wine after it runs out.
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Offline Maria

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #87 on: October 23, 2013, 07:41:26 PM »
Lets see , you can get married in the church , but no passionate dancing afterwards, I played drums all over Chicago in greek bands and in Church halls, that would be thrown out with the Bishop if it were made a rule.

I think that God already said to not only let them dance and drink, but give the drunks more wine after it runs out.

I have not heard that interpretation.
While St. Paul said that a little wine is good for the stomach, he also reminded us to be sober and avoid drunkenness.
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Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #88 on: October 23, 2013, 08:00:17 PM »
Lets see , you can get married in the church , but no passionate dancing afterwards, I played drums all over Chicago in greek bands and in Church halls, that would be thrown out with the Bishop if it were made a rule.

I think that God already said to not only let them dance and drink, but give the drunks more wine after it runs out.

I have not heard that interpretation.
While St. Paul said that a little wine is good for the stomach, he also reminded us to be sober and avoid drunkenness.

The gospel says that the wine ran out and then he filled the huge canisters with the best wine after they had too much already, and not only that but his mother told him to do it.

I myself hardly ever drink, but the issue is that God wants us to enjoy ourselves in moderation, meaning that you are not drinking the day after the wedding, and are not a drunken person all the time.

Jesus Changes Water Into Wine

1On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there, 2and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3When the wine was gone, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no more wine.”

4“Woman,a why do you involve me?” Jesus replied. “My hour has not yet come.”

5His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”

6Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons.b

7Jesus said to the servants, “Fill the jars with water”; so they filled them to the brim.

8Then he told them, “Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet.”

They did so, 9and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10and said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.”

11What Jesus did here in Cana of Galilee was the first of the signs through which he revealed his glory; and his disciples believed in him.

12After this he went down to Capernaum with his mother and brothers and his disciples. There they stayed for a few days.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 08:01:46 PM by Sinful Hypocrite »
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Offline Agabus

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #89 on: October 23, 2013, 08:06:30 PM »
...'Orthodox Dances.'..

Orthodox liturgical dancers? IS INNOVATIONIST OUTRAGE!
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #90 on: October 23, 2013, 08:09:28 PM »
Maria, you don't get it; you're not a man. There is no such thing as "modest" dancing. Whenever a woman is moving her body around it is going to inflame passions within us males. I don't care if she's wearing an astronaut space suit; men are going to be attracted.

God willing, someday you will not be a teenager or young adult male. :)
+1

JamesR, no offense, dancing does not excite me.  Maybe 17 yr old kids will be attracted given their relatively higher libido, but once you are in your 30s, I'm way more excited over the prospect of eating a piece of pie or some cookies than I am over some girl dancing.  Unless she is scantily clothed.  Then that is going to catch my attention unfortunately.  :(

Beware of dancing girls bringing cookies.
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Offline Maria

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #91 on: October 23, 2013, 08:25:13 PM »
...'Orthodox Dances.'..

Orthodox liturgical dancers? IS INNOVATIONIST OUTRAGE!

Hopefully, that never happens. I saw enough of that when I was a Roman Catholic.
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Offline hecma925

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #92 on: October 23, 2013, 08:26:14 PM »
Maria, you don't get it; you're not a man. There is no such thing as "modest" dancing. Whenever a woman is moving her body around it is going to inflame passions within us males. I don't care if she's wearing an astronaut space suit; men are going to be attracted.

God willing, someday you will not be a teenager or young adult male. :)
+1

JamesR, no offense, dancing does not excite me.  Maybe 17 yr old kids will be attracted given their relatively higher libido, but once you are in your 30s, I'm way more excited over the prospect of eating a piece of pie or some cookies than I am over some girl dancing.  Unless she is scantily clothed.  Then that is going to catch my attention unfortunately.  :(

Beware of dancing girls bringing cookies.

Girl Scouts don't dance, but they always manage to con me out of my money.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Another blog - http://literarydiktator.blogspot.com/

Offline Maria

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #93 on: October 23, 2013, 08:26:48 PM »
Maria, you don't get it; you're not a man. There is no such thing as "modest" dancing. Whenever a woman is moving her body around it is going to inflame passions within us males. I don't care if she's wearing an astronaut space suit; men are going to be attracted.

God willing, someday you will not be a teenager or young adult male. :)
+1

JamesR, no offense, dancing does not excite me.  Maybe 17 yr old kids will be attracted given their relatively higher libido, but once you are in your 30s, I'm way more excited over the prospect of eating a piece of pie or some cookies than I am over some girl dancing.  Unless she is scantily clothed.  Then that is going to catch my attention unfortunately.  :(

Beware of dancing girls bringing cookies  bearing trays of apple pie, cheesecake, and baklava.

Fixed it for you.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 08:27:17 PM by Maria »
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Offline Agabus

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #94 on: October 23, 2013, 08:29:41 PM »
...'Orthodox Dances.'..

Orthodox liturgical dancers? IS INNOVATIONIST OUTRAGE!

Hopefully, that never happens. I saw enough of that when I was a Roman Catholic.
The local Catholics would never do such a thing. The local black Baptists, however, love it.

I see no place for such a practice to be integrated into Orthodox services. Anywhere it could be shoehorned in would be awkward.

Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #95 on: October 23, 2013, 08:31:39 PM »
...'Orthodox Dances.'..

Orthodox liturgical dancers? IS INNOVATIONIST OUTRAGE!

Hopefully, that never happens. I saw enough of that when I was a Roman Catholic.
The local Catholics would never do such a thing. The local black Baptists, however, love it.

I see no place for such a practice to be integrated into Orthodox services. Anywhere it could be shoehorned in would be awkward.


I dunno.  I think a nice dance between the Epistle reading and the Gospel reading could be nice.  You could even have the Deacon whirl across the front with his vestments fluttering.
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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #96 on: October 23, 2013, 08:37:57 PM »

I dunno.  I think a nice dance between the Epistle reading and the Gospel reading could be nice.  You could even have the Deacon whirl across the front with his vestments fluttering.

Haha, like this:
Catholic and Orthodox Liturgy compared
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxcOv4zPoVo&feature=player_detailpage#t=99
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #97 on: October 23, 2013, 08:48:01 PM »
...'Orthodox Dances.'..

Orthodox liturgical dancers? IS INNOVATIONIST OUTRAGE!

Hopefully, that never happens. I saw enough of that when I was a Roman Catholic.
The local Catholics would never do such a thing. The local black Baptists, however, love it.

I see no place for such a practice to be integrated into Orthodox services. Anywhere it could be shoehorned in would be awkward.


I dunno.  I think a nice dance between the Epistle reading and the Gospel reading could be nice.  You could even have the Deacon whirl across the front with his vestments fluttering.

Perhaps the altar boys could take orders for cocktails. With a decent mark-up, it could pay the church's bills better than any festival. Add some high tables for the standing crowd...
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #98 on: October 23, 2013, 08:51:03 PM »
...'Orthodox Dances.'..

Orthodox liturgical dancers? IS INNOVATIONIST OUTRAGE!

Hopefully, that never happens. I saw enough of that when I was a Roman Catholic.
The local Catholics would never do such a thing. The local black Baptists, however, love it.

I see no place for such a practice to be integrated into Orthodox services. Anywhere it could be shoehorned in would be awkward.


I dunno.  I think a nice dance between the Epistle reading and the Gospel reading could be nice.  You could even have the Deacon whirl across the front with his vestments fluttering.

Perhaps the altar boys could take orders for cocktails. With a decent mark-up, it could pay the church's bills better than any festival. Add some high tables for the standing crowd...
I'm shocked, SHOCKED you would make such a suggestion.  It is still during fast.  :P
Quote from: Mor Ephrem
Why can't you just take your spiritual edification like a man? 

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #99 on: October 23, 2013, 09:01:27 PM »
Maria, you don't get it; you're not a man. There is no such thing as "modest" dancing. Whenever a woman is moving her body around it is going to inflame passions within us males. I don't care if she's wearing an astronaut space suit; men are going to be attracted.

God willing, someday you will not be a teenager or young adult male. :)
+1

JamesR, no offense, dancing does not excite me.  Maybe 17 yr old kids will be attracted given their relatively higher libido, but once you are in your 30s, I'm way more excited over the prospect of eating a piece of pie or some cookies than I am over some girl dancing.  Unless she is scantily clothed.  Then that is going to catch my attention unfortunately.  :(

Beware of dancing girls bringing cookies.

Girl Scouts don't dance, but they always manage to con me out of my money.

But...Cub Scout popcorn is even more expensive!

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #100 on: October 23, 2013, 09:04:03 PM »
...'Orthodox Dances.'..

Orthodox liturgical dancers? IS INNOVATIONIST OUTRAGE!

Hopefully, that never happens. I saw enough of that when I was a Roman Catholic.
The local Catholics would never do such a thing. The local black Baptists, however, love it.

I see no place for such a practice to be integrated into Orthodox services. Anywhere it could be shoehorned in would be awkward.


I dunno.  I think a nice dance between the Epistle reading and the Gospel reading could be nice.  You could even have the Deacon whirl across the front with his vestments fluttering.

Perhaps the altar boys could take orders for cocktails. With a decent mark-up, it could pay the church's bills better than any festival. Add some high tables for the standing crowd...
I'm shocked, SHOCKED you would make such a suggestion.  It is still during fast.  :P

Your Scotch, sir.
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline Maria

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #101 on: October 23, 2013, 09:05:45 PM »
...'Orthodox Dances.'..

Orthodox liturgical dancers? IS INNOVATIONIST OUTRAGE!

Hopefully, that never happens. I saw enough of that when I was a Roman Catholic.
The local Catholics would never do such a thing. The local black Baptists, however, love it.

I see no place for such a practice to be integrated into Orthodox services. Anywhere it could be shoehorned in would be awkward.


I dunno.  I think a nice dance between the Epistle reading and the Gospel reading could be nice.  You could even have the Deacon whirl across the front with his vestments fluttering.

Perhaps the altar boys could take orders for cocktails. With a decent mark-up, it could pay the church's bills better than any festival. Add some high tables for the standing crowd...
I'm shocked, SHOCKED you would make such a suggestion.  It is still during fast.  :P

Your Scotch, sir.

You're scorched, sir!   ::)
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 09:28:55 PM by Maria »
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #102 on: October 23, 2013, 09:06:29 PM »
...'Orthodox Dances.'..

Orthodox liturgical dancers? IS INNOVATIONIST OUTRAGE!

Hopefully, that never happens. I saw enough of that when I was a Roman Catholic.
The local Catholics would never do such a thing. The local black Baptists, however, love it.

I see no place for such a practice to be integrated into Orthodox services. Anywhere it could be shoehorned in would be awkward.


I dunno.  I think a nice dance between the Epistle reading and the Gospel reading could be nice.  You could even have the Deacon whirl across the front with his vestments fluttering.

Perhaps the altar boys could take orders for cocktails. With a decent mark-up, it could pay the church's bills better than any festival. Add some high tables for the standing crowd...
I'm shocked, SHOCKED you would make such a suggestion.  It is still during fast.  :P

Your Scotch, sir.
Oh, thank you very much.

 :laugh:


I'm a sucker for Casablanca
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 09:07:24 PM by TheTrisagion »
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Offline hecma925

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #103 on: October 23, 2013, 09:23:47 PM »
But...Cub Scout popcorn is even more expensive!

You're right, but they don't dance either!  Just some sad eyes and some spiel about not going to some Jamboree.  Ah, what the heck, sign me up for 3 cans of popcorn. ;D
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Offline Gunnarr

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #104 on: October 24, 2013, 12:08:08 AM »
just keep it outside the church...

AND NO TWERKING
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Offline Opus118

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #105 on: October 24, 2013, 01:21:43 AM »
Should all forms of dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?

Personally, I see nothing wrong with modest traditional Greek folk dancing as is done in Greek Orthodox Churches.

I am not going to read this thread at this point. I specified No see my reply below.

Traditional Greek folk dancing should certainly be allowed and also spontaneous or dances to the same music.

I am also an advocate to belly dancing. I think it is fine in a Greek festival Taverna setting. I do not mean the tribal form (which I dislike because it just seems like a fitness/weight loss program to me). If you think I am joking, I am serious about this, but it is late for me to set forth why I think this dance form is worthwhile.


Offline JamesR

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #106 on: October 24, 2013, 02:06:18 AM »
Maria, you don't get it; you're not a man. There is no such thing as "modest" dancing. Whenever a woman is moving her body around it is going to inflame passions within us males. I don't care if she's wearing an astronaut space suit; men are going to be attracted.

When I took a tour of a Catholic home for the aged many years ago with a group of young ladies who were thinking of volunteering or working there, the nun in charge told us, "These elderly men may look old, but they are certainly not dead." She chuckled and then told us to be very careful.

When I was student teaching, we were told to dress very modestly and always wear a vest or jacket over our blouse because some autistic boys, teens, and men will try to touch a woman who is not appropriately covered.

It's very true. And I'm not saying it's okay or anything--we men SHOULD be able to control ourselves, but most of us can't. Heck, I can't. I think all dancing should be prohibited in these halls.
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #107 on: October 24, 2013, 02:06:18 AM »
Who will set the criteria for what constitutes "inappropriate" or "dirty" dancing"?  It's so vague hence why I voted no.  If individual parishes who have halls want to do that, that's up to the individual halls, but I don't think such a directive should come down from on high from the archbishop.  Doesn't he have anything better to do?
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #108 on: October 24, 2013, 02:06:18 AM »
I once said Romanian Pentecostals were against premarital sex because it might lead to dancing.
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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #109 on: October 24, 2013, 02:43:54 AM »
Should all forms of dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?

Personally, I see nothing wrong with modest traditional Greek folk dancing as is done in Greek Orthodox Churches.

I am not going to read this thread at this point. I specified No see my reply below.

Traditional Greek folk dancing should certainly be allowed and also spontaneous or dances to the same music.

I am also an advocate to belly dancing. I think it is fine in a Greek festival Taverna setting. I do not mean the tribal form (which I dislike because it just seems like a fitness/weight loss program to me). If you think I am joking, I am serious about this, but it is late for me to set forth why I think this dance form is worthwhile.

The bolded part is why I started training in it. :D Then I fell in love with the form, and the rest is history.
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Offline Santagranddad

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #110 on: October 24, 2013, 04:10:59 AM »
Don't have have any idea what TWERKING is and suspect my ignorance is possibly a blessing.

What should not be allowed?

Dancing, no. JamesR pretty well covered that.
Groups idolising Ancient Greek Gods.
Political meetings
Masonic events


Offline hecma925

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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #111 on: October 24, 2013, 07:01:38 AM »
I once said Romanian Pentecostals were against premarital sex because it might lead to dancing.

No, that'd be Puerto Rican pentecostals, too.  Unless in repentance, you dance "in the spirit" and are later "slain."
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Re: Should dancing be banned in Orthodox Christian Halls and Festivals?
« Reply #112 on: October 24, 2013, 10:18:25 AM »
Don't have have any idea what TWERKING is and suspect my ignorance is possibly a blessing.

More than possibly.
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