OrthodoxChristianity.net
July 24, 2014, 05:42:36 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Visio Divina  (Read 288 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Nephi
Section Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Auntie Oak
Posts: 4,036



« on: October 21, 2013, 02:33:20 PM »

Hey all, I'll apparently be being introduced to visio divina soon in one of my classes. I gather this is "prayer with images," and they're using the St. John's Bible.

Any idea if this'll even closely resemble Orthodoxy? Any other thoughts on it? It seems to be popular among Episcopalians which gives me a great deal of pause.
Logged

Liberalochian: Unionist-Ecumenism Lite™
Jetavan
Most Humble Servant of Pan-Vespuccian and Holocenic Hominids
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christic
Jurisdiction: Dixie
Posts: 6,280


Barlaam and Josaphat


WWW
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2013, 02:43:51 PM »

More on Visio Divina.

The links says this has long been an Orthodox practice. Do Orthodox parishes still do it in America?
« Last Edit: October 21, 2013, 02:44:43 PM by Jetavan » Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
Nephi
Section Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Auntie Oak
Posts: 4,036



« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2013, 02:49:36 PM »

More on Visio Divina.

The links says this has long been an Orthodox practice. Do Orthodox parishes still do it in America?

Well, the link says Orthodoxy's long had prayer with icons. I've never heard of Orthodox doing this sort of prayer however, which from reading the article seems to be meditating on a picture (without any accompanying prayers) and trying to get Spirit-led emotions and thoughts from it.

I'm already not looking forward to this.
Logged

Liberalochian: Unionist-Ecumenism Lite™
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 6,972



« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2013, 02:53:24 PM »

I don't know anything about this as that patheos article is the first I've read of such a thing.  I would think that anything that has a goal of "Spirit-led emotions" should be approached with significant caution though.
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
jah777
Warned
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 1,763


« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2013, 02:53:39 PM »

Hey all, I'll apparently be being introduced to visio divina soon in one of my classes. I gather this is "prayer with images," and they're using the St. John's Bible.

Any idea if this'll even closely resemble Orthodoxy? Any other thoughts on it? It seems to be popular among Episcopalians which gives me a great deal of pause.

My guess is this will probably be a New Agey meditation exercise where one is encouraged to reflect on their own thoughts, feelings, etc. while looking at an image.  Perhaps you will be encouraged to keep a journal about your self-absorbed experience.  Most of these meditation exercises, even if images or objects are used, are really an exercise in self-contemplation and self-obsession.  They are often "experience" oriented in that people are led to engage in a "spiritual practice" with the intent of having some kind of insight, some experience, some sensation, etc.  This is the very rich and furtile ground of delusion and spiritual deception. 

In Orthodoxy we venerate icons, we stand before them as we speak to the one being depicted.  We speak to those depicted because we love them, we trust in the mercy of God and the intercessions of the saints, and we need their mercy and help.  We are not trying to "feel spiritual" or have any special experience.  In other words, while in Orthodoxy we have icons and this "visio divina" uses images, the way in which these images are being used are complete opposites.  Visio divina is being used as one of many tools in the spiritual marketplace for people to use to "feel spiritual" and congratulate themselves on engaging in "spiritual practices".  They have nothing to do with living a life of humble repentance in obedience to God within His Church.

For the record, before I was Orthodox I was involved in a Benedictine "Christian meditation" movement that said its practice of "Christian" mantra meditation was also just like the Orthodox practice of the Jesus Prayer.  I taught this way of meditation to others in churches and at retreats, until I began to really read and understand the Orthodox tradition on the Jesus Prayer.  I eventually came to the conclusion that this assertion regarding the Jesus Prayer was a total lie, despite external and superficial similarities in practice.  Spiritually they were incompatible.  I realized that I had to leave this stuff behind and enter the Orthodox Church if I wanted to truly pray and worship as a Christian rather than as a practitioner of self-absorbed and deluded New Age pseudo-Christianity.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2013, 02:59:59 PM by jah777 » Logged
Nephi
Section Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Auntie Oak
Posts: 4,036



« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2013, 02:57:58 PM »

I don't know anything about this as that patheos article is the first I've read of such a thing.  I would think that anything that has a goal of "Spirit-led emotions" should be approached with significant caution though.

Definitely my thoughts.

And I always assumed the St. John's Bible was an iconographic work... it has very few icons. See it here for the artwork. Some of the pages even have insects on them - they seem to like dragonflies.
Logged

Liberalochian: Unionist-Ecumenism Lite™
podkarpatska
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,018


SS Cyril and Methodius Church, Mercer, PA


WWW
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2013, 03:00:17 PM »

Nope, never heard of such a practice - whether from the Orthodox or Greek Catholic side of the family.....
Logged
Jetavan
Most Humble Servant of Pan-Vespuccian and Holocenic Hominids
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christic
Jurisdiction: Dixie
Posts: 6,280


Barlaam and Josaphat


WWW
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2013, 03:01:19 PM »

I don't know anything about this as that patheos article is the first I've read of such a thing.  I would think that anything that has a goal of "Spirit-led emotions" should be approached with significant caution though.

Definitely my thoughts.

And I always assumed the St. John's Bible was an iconographic work... it has very few icons. See it here for the artwork. Some of the pages even have insects on them - they seem to like dragonflies.
Does this involve opening a St. John's Bible to a page with an image and meditating on the image, or does it involve using an image from the St. John's Bible printed on its own separate page (like a large post-card)?
Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
Nephi
Section Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Auntie Oak
Posts: 4,036



« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2013, 03:02:41 PM »

Hey all, I'll apparently be being introduced to visio divina soon in one of my classes. I gather this is "prayer with images," and they're using the St. John's Bible.

Any idea if this'll even closely resemble Orthodoxy? Any other thoughts on it? It seems to be popular among Episcopalians which gives me a great deal of pause.

My guess is this will probably be a New Agey meditation exercise where one is encouraged to reflect on their own thoughts, feelings, etc. while looking at an image.  Perhaps you will be encouraged to keep a journal about your self-absorbed experience.  Most of these meditation exercises, even if images or objects are used, are really an exercise in self-contemplation and self-obsession.  They are often "experience" oriented in that people are led to engage in a "spiritual practice" with the intent of having some kind of insight, some experience, some sensation, etc.  This is the very rich and furtile ground of delusion and spiritual deception.

I think you probably hit the nail on the head. They requested we bring a Bible and also, as you said, a journal.

Quote
In Orthodoxy we venerate icons, we stand before them as we speak to the one being depicted.  We speak to those depicted because we love them, we trust in the mercy of God and the intercessions of the saints, and we need their mercy and help.  We are not trying to "feel spiritual" or have any special experience.  In other words, while in Orthodoxy we have icons and this "visio divina" uses images, the way in which these images are being used are complete opposites.  Visio divina is being used as one of many tools in the spiritual marketplace for people to use to "feel spiritual" and congratulate themselves on engaging in "spiritual practices".  They have nothing to do with living a life of humble repentance in obedience to God within His Church.

You described it better than I could have. I'll have to remember this when I explain why I can't comfortably participate. Cool It seems my Catholic university love anything and everything New Agey.
Logged

Liberalochian: Unionist-Ecumenism Lite™
Nephi
Section Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Auntie Oak
Posts: 4,036



« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2013, 03:05:33 PM »

Definitely my thoughts.

And I always assumed the St. John's Bible was an iconographic work... it has very few icons. See it here for the artwork. Some of the pages even have insects on them - they seem to like dragonflies.
Does this involve opening a St. John's Bible to a page with an image and meditating on the image, or does it involve using an image from the St. John's Bible printed on its own separate page (like a large post-card)?

With prints from the St. John's Bible:

Quote
Our topic tomorrow is the St John's Bible and prayer forms inspired by it. We are meeting in the Chapel because the artwork in that chapel is prints from the Saint John's Bible.  In addition to exploring a bit of background on this unique biblical text, you will have the opportunity to engage in visio divina.  You may want to bring your journal and a Bible with you as well. Since we are meeting in a chapel, I do ask that you leave your drinks and snacks behind this time.  So, drink your coffee before you come and be ready to engage in the beauty of scripture!
« Last Edit: October 21, 2013, 03:05:57 PM by Nephi » Logged

Liberalochian: Unionist-Ecumenism Lite™
Jetavan
Most Humble Servant of Pan-Vespuccian and Holocenic Hominids
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christic
Jurisdiction: Dixie
Posts: 6,280


Barlaam and Josaphat


WWW
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2013, 03:08:28 PM »

well. Since we are meeting in a chapel, I do ask that you leave your drinks and snacks behind this time.  So, drink your coffee before you come and be ready to engage in the beauty of scripture!
That's so pre-modern. Most mega-churches encourage coffee in the chapel.  Roll Eyes
Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.07 seconds with 38 queries.