Poll

Rudeness on OC.Net

I think it should be strictly moderated (provide standards in comment below)
I think only the most extreme rudeness should be moderated (provide standards in post below)
I think it should be discouraged, but people should self-moderate (explain why below)
I think it should be allowed completely (explain below)
No opinion / neutral

Author Topic: Rudeness  (Read 10665 times)

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Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #405 on: October 22, 2013, 07:13:43 PM »


St. Paul? I dunno, he sorta is preaching the do as I say not as I do. It is rather clear his persecution of Christians didn't stop on that Road to Damascus.

And Jesus? He was rather rude by the implied standards (they haven't offered any other than their matter of fact insistence RUDE HAPPENS) of the aggrieved around here.

I couldn't repeat without severe moderation some of what Jesus said to people here, if I were to translate it into my vernacular.



Are you implying that once converted to Christianity, St. Paul continued to persecute Christians?  How so?

Also, are you implying Christ was rude by setting "rules" by which to live?



I think there is no doubt that the Elders of Jesus own religion thought he was rude and worse. They did hang him on the cross later . So he was breaking their rules, and they owned the worldly site as it were. IMHumbleO

This is not to justify rudeness , it is only to say that there are different views of the same event. Both of which can be valid .
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 07:19:39 PM by Sinful Hypocrite »
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #406 on: October 22, 2013, 07:30:38 PM »


St. Paul? I dunno, he sorta is preaching the do as I say not as I do. It is rather clear his persecution of Christians didn't stop on that Road to Damascus.

And Jesus? He was rather rude by the implied standards (they haven't offered any other than their matter of fact insistence RUDE HAPPENS) of the aggrieved around here.

I couldn't repeat without severe moderation some of what Jesus said to people here, if I were to translate it into my vernacular.



Are you implying that once converted to Christianity, St. Paul continued to persecute Christians?  How so?

Also, are you implying Christ was rude by setting "rules" by which to live?



Liza, just getting ready to eat and your post is the last in my queue:

1.) Yes. I think this is pretty clear. If you would like Scriptural evidence of St. Paul causing problems for Christians I could just say: read everything by him and Acts, but I can be more precise.

2.) No. I am saying Christ would be moderated here due to how he treated others, especially if the well-heeled get their way about "rudeness". Jesus Christ called people names, which is an offense here. Vulgar names. Implications which were of the worse kind, likely bannable offenses.

So when people choose Jesus and St. Paul as carriers of some general middle class smile and be kind to everyone schtick, I have to suggest they read the Bible. St. Paul arguably preached something like that at times if taken out of context, but had a reputation certainly. Again, long after his conversion.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #407 on: October 22, 2013, 08:04:40 PM »
So when people choose Jesus and St. Paul as carriers of some general middle class smile and be kind to everyone schtick, I have to suggest they read the Bible.

:)

I'll admit wishing at times I could believe in the "general middle class smile and be kind to everyone" religion, with all the stuff that comes with it.  The more I read and study the Bible, the less consolation I get out of it because of how it seems not to mean what people think it means at a superficial level.  It troubles more than it consoles.  Praying Scripture and asking God to help me understand it is the only way I hope to compensate for that.  Scripture is not at all neat and dainty.   
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Offline biro

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #408 on: October 22, 2013, 08:11:19 PM »
"By this shall all men know that you are My disciples, if you have love for each other."

That's what the choir sings when we go to Communion. Doesn't sound like an exhortation to be rude.

"Love one another, as I have loved you."

Again, not rude.

Are you talking about a different Jesus? Or just justifying yourselves based on what you want?

If being a nice person makes me a bad Christian, then I'm glad I missed the boat.
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Offline Rufus

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #409 on: October 22, 2013, 08:18:38 PM »
So when people choose Jesus and St. Paul as carriers of some general middle class smile and be kind to everyone schtick, I have to suggest they read the Bible.

:)

I'll admit wishing at times I could believe in the "general middle class smile and be kind to everyone" religion, with all the stuff that comes with it.  The more I read and study the Bible, the less consolation I get out of it because of how it seems not to mean what people think it means at a superficial level.  It troubles more than it consoles.  Praying Scripture and asking God to help me understand it is the only way I hope to compensate for that.  Scripture is not at all neat and dainty.   

Dude, the Gospels are terrifying. You are not the first person I've encountered who thinks that.

And forced smiling is completely idiotic. If we ever start having icons of smiling Jesus, I'll know the Orthodox Faith is about to die.

Grinning is OK.

Offline biro

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #410 on: October 22, 2013, 08:21:36 PM »
The Gospels terrifying? What did you do, read them upside down?
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #411 on: October 22, 2013, 08:21:59 PM »
Will we all have to prove our Orthodoxy by adopting St Nicholas avatars now?

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #412 on: October 22, 2013, 08:26:30 PM »
The Gospels terrifying? What did you do, read them upside down?

biro, you must be joking. I think I posted an entire thread on the matter and of course, I was called cryptic or something for believing in stuff the like the Parable of the Last Judgement.
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Offline biro

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #413 on: October 22, 2013, 08:27:42 PM »
The Gospels terrifying? What did you do, read them upside down?

biro, you must be joking. I think I posted an entire thread on the matter and of course, I was called cryptic or something for believing in stuff the like the Parable of the Last Judgement.

I'm not. I've never been scared of a single thing in the Bible, and I read it all the time.

Believe it or not, people don't have to agree with you. Sorry you can't deal with that.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #414 on: October 22, 2013, 08:30:18 PM »
The Gospels terrifying? What did you do, read them upside down?

No.  I suspect he reads them as they are written, and not as we think we understand how they are written based on what we presume they must mean.  

A lot of things people pick out of Scripture and "apply" to certain situations, whether to admonish or to encourage or what have you, are just plain wrong, as wrong as pouring new wine into old wineskins.  You can read Scripture with your own presuppositions and find things that'll support your own ideas and make it seem as if they have God's approval, but when you go beyond the surface, at least 80% is really not applicable to what you thought it was applicable.  When you realise that, reading Scripture becomes a lot less comforting and you wish you could go back to a simpler way of doing things, except that "truth" may not coincide with "simple".    
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Online ZealousZeal

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #415 on: October 22, 2013, 08:30:25 PM »
There's a lot in the Bible that's terrifying. A lot of the parables are pretty scary. They never scared me as a Protestant when I assumed I was fo' sho a good sheep on the narrow path feeding the needy and visiting them in prison, toting my cross on my woolly back.
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #416 on: October 22, 2013, 08:30:49 PM »
The Gospels terrifying? What did you do, read them upside down?

biro, you must be joking. I think I posted an entire thread on the matter and of course, I was called cryptic or something for believing in stuff the like the Parable of the Last Judgement.

I'm not. I've never been scared of a single thing in the Bible, and I read it all the time.

Believe it or not, people don't have to agree with you. Sorry you can't deal with that.

Again biro, you need to read here, and no I am not being Kerdy, you do have a problem with reading posts. You are surprised that some find the Gospel terrifying. I was offering evidence of being one person who is exactly that.

So no I don't agree with you that I don't exist.

Again: read. Then post.

Or not, but you will likely seem more coherent doing the former.
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #417 on: October 22, 2013, 08:31:40 PM »
The Gospels terrifying? What did you do, read them upside down?

biro, you must be joking. I think I posted an entire thread on the matter and of course, I was called cryptic or something for believing in stuff the like the Parable of the Last Judgement.

I'm not. I've never been scared of a single thing in the Bible, and I read it all the time.

Believe it or not, people don't have to agree with you. Sorry you can't deal with that.

And you have to tell me that people disagree with me?

Yeah that is some newsflash, thanks.
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Offline biro

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #418 on: October 22, 2013, 08:33:39 PM »
I do not have a problem reading posts. I can read just fine.

You just can't take it that not everybody agrees with you. There's no law of the board that says everyone must agree with the high and mighty orthonorm.

Sorry, people can have other opinions on this board, and if you can't deal with that, take up a different hobby. Maybe crosswords will help you calm down.
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #419 on: October 22, 2013, 08:36:02 PM »
I do not have a problem reading posts. I can read just fine.

You just can't take it that not everybody agrees with you. There's no law of the board that says everyone must agree with the high and mighty orthonorm.

Sorry, people can have other opinions on this board, and if you can't deal with that, take up a different hobby. Maybe crosswords will help you calm down.

biro, your post said I don't exist.

You are wrong.

If everyone agreed with me, that I couldn't take cause I would realize I was an idiot or totally crazy.

And actually crosswords drive me crazy, this place is a hoot though.
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Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #420 on: October 22, 2013, 08:37:37 PM »
We had a very rude G.O priest before my time,  I know because my family talked about it many times, they said he was mean as sin to most people for the silliest things. He was the only one out of 5-6 that we had since then that was like that, but we must pray for his soul now.
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Offline biro

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #421 on: October 22, 2013, 08:38:18 PM »
I do not have a problem reading posts. I can read just fine.

You just can't take it that not everybody agrees with you. There's no law of the board that says everyone must agree with the high and mighty orthonorm.

Sorry, people can have other opinions on this board, and if you can't deal with that, take up a different hobby. Maybe crosswords will help you calm down.

biro, your post said I don't exist.

You are wrong.

If everyone agreed with me, that I couldn't take cause I would realize I was an idiot or totally crazy.

And actually crosswords drive me crazy, this place is a hoot though.

Uh, I don't recall saying you don't exist.

But thanks for the continuing insults, they prove I'm onto something.  ;)
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #422 on: October 22, 2013, 08:43:14 PM »
I do not have a problem reading posts. I can read just fine.

You just can't take it that not everybody agrees with you. There's no law of the board that says everyone must agree with the high and mighty orthonorm.

Sorry, people can have other opinions on this board, and if you can't deal with that, take up a different hobby. Maybe crosswords will help you calm down.

biro, your post said I don't exist.

You are wrong.

If everyone agreed with me, that I couldn't take cause I would realize I was an idiot or totally crazy.

And actually crosswords drive me crazy, this place is a hoot though.

Uh, I don't recall saying you don't exist.

But thanks for the continuing insults, they prove I'm onto something.  ;)

OK, now is the time to in BOLD show me where I insulted you or someone else. No one ever follows up on this when I ask them.

Where is the "insult"?

I am not going to go through and formalize your earlier argument to show how it implied my non-existence. But show me in bold in my own words where I insulted anyone other than likely myself.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 08:43:32 PM by orthonorm »
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Offline biro

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #423 on: October 22, 2013, 08:49:12 PM »
"If everyone agreed with me, that I couldn't take cause I would realize I was an idiot or totally crazy."

Strongly implying that one of us is, and it wouldn't be you, Ms. Thang. Because before that, I posted about how you can't take it that people don't always agree with you. It's called following a chain of thought and you apparently can't. Nowhere did I either imply or state that you don't exist, although I don't really like you very much and I'm not scared about saying that anymore. This is a thread about rudeness, and all the time you've been a-boasting about how swell rudeness is, so you should be fine with that.

Unless you can't take it now that the shoe is on the other foot. So, I wouldn't be surprised.

If anybody feels like giving me a green dot for the next four months, go ahead, you've done it before.
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Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #424 on: October 22, 2013, 08:49:56 PM »
So when people choose Jesus and St. Paul as carriers of some general middle class smile and be kind to everyone schtick, I have to suggest they read the Bible.

:)

I'll admit wishing at times I could believe in the "general middle class smile and be kind to everyone" religion, with all the stuff that comes with it.  The more I read and study the Bible, the less consolation I get out of it because of how it seems not to mean what people think it means at a superficial level.  It troubles more than it consoles.  Praying Scripture and asking God to help me understand it is the only way I hope to compensate for that.  Scripture is not at all neat and dainty.   

Dude, the Gospels are terrifying. You are not the first person I've encountered who thinks that.

And forced smiling is completely idiotic. If we ever start having icons of smiling Jesus, I'll know the Orthodox Faith is about to die.

Grinning is OK.

Do you also believe that God does not sing and dance and make merriness and laugh? I would say that that was what the high priests wanted him to do, and questioned every instance of it.

Remember that his first miracle was for a wedding, do you suppose he demanded reverence there, or did he dance and laugh with the winebibbers.

Our Greek Orthodox Church archdiocese has made a concerted effort to make the church a place of Joy, and gladness to be with God, yes we still approach with the fear of God, but the Bishop is not above telling the altar boys jokes before coming out for his sermon, or being fun to be with, and not always pious and stiff as we usually associate  with such people.
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #425 on: October 22, 2013, 08:56:59 PM »
"If everyone agreed with me, that I couldn't take cause I would realize I was an idiot or totally crazy."

Strongly implying that one of us is, and it wouldn't be you, Ms. Thang. Because before that, I posted about how you can't take it that people don't always agree with you. It's called following a chain of thought and you apparently can't. Nowhere did I either imply or state that you don't exist, although I don't really like you very much and I'm not scared about saying that anymore. This is a thread about rudeness, and all the time you've been a-boasting about how swell rudeness is, so you should be fine with that.

Unless you can't take it now that the shoe is on the other foot. So, I wouldn't be surprised.

If anybody feels like giving me a green dot for the next four months, go ahead, you've done it before.

You tell me what you would call a person who lives a life where everyone seems to agree them all the time.

You would have to be an idiot to believe such a thing or completely crazy.

It has to do with the grandiosity coupled with poor reasoning on the part of the person who believes such a fantasy could be true.

I don't. And I doubt most people think everyone agrees with them.

So, in the end, no insult, save toward a hypothetical version of myself.

This is what happens we turn over the keys of what counts as "rude" to those who complain such as yourself. You clearly misunderstood my point which wasn't that "cryptic."

Now to insulting, you on the other hand have called me "high and mighty" and I would guess in a ironic manner. And you have called me "Ms. Thang". This is just to begin with.

This is not to mention your using obscenities toward me in the past in response to nothing insulting from me.

So on the whole, it would seem when it comes to understanding how to avoid being rude and insulting, yours is an opinion we can talk with a grain of salt.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 08:57:12 PM by orthonorm »
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Offline Shiny

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #426 on: October 22, 2013, 08:58:59 PM »
I've always wondered, are you really a true contrarian IRL orthonorm? As I say, I don't understand how you aren't in fights on a daily basis.

So is this turning into a bash orthonorm thread?

biro can you please reply back to me on how I was rude to you, I tried to make amends, sorta, but I don't know if you just ignored me.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 08:59:48 PM by Achronos »
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #427 on: October 22, 2013, 09:03:33 PM »
I've always wondered, are you really a true contrarian IRL orthonorm? As I say, I don't understand how you aren't in fights on a daily basis.

So is this turning into a bash orthonorm thread?

biro can you please reply back to me on how I was rude to you, I tried to make amends, sorta, but I don't know if you just ignored me.

I am not a contrarian.

Uhhh people IRL ask me how I avoid being in fights all the time. It's a rare human I meet who would venture such a stupid altercation. And since maniacs tend to know each other, I readily agree with everything they say.
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Offline Shiny

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #428 on: October 22, 2013, 09:05:35 PM »
I've always wondered, are you really a true contrarian IRL orthonorm? As I say, I don't understand how you aren't in fights on a daily basis.

So is this turning into a bash orthonorm thread?

biro can you please reply back to me on how I was rude to you, I tried to make amends, sorta, but I don't know if you just ignored me.

I am not a contrarian.

Uhhh people IRL ask me how I avoid being in fights all the time. It's a rare human I meet who would venture such a stupid altercation. And since maniacs tend to know each other, I readily agree with everything they say.
See I was under the impression you did get into public confrontations, and I don't mean fighting either.
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Offline Rufus

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #429 on: October 22, 2013, 09:19:06 PM »
So when people choose Jesus and St. Paul as carriers of some general middle class smile and be kind to everyone schtick, I have to suggest they read the Bible.

:)

I'll admit wishing at times I could believe in the "general middle class smile and be kind to everyone" religion, with all the stuff that comes with it.  The more I read and study the Bible, the less consolation I get out of it because of how it seems not to mean what people think it means at a superficial level.  It troubles more than it consoles.  Praying Scripture and asking God to help me understand it is the only way I hope to compensate for that.  Scripture is not at all neat and dainty.   

Dude, the Gospels are terrifying. You are not the first person I've encountered who thinks that.

And forced smiling is completely idiotic. If we ever start having icons of smiling Jesus, I'll know the Orthodox Faith is about to die.

Grinning is OK.

Do you also believe that God does not sing and dance and make merriness and laugh? I would say that that was what the high priests wanted him to do, and questioned every instance of it.

Remember that his first miracle was for a wedding, do you suppose he demanded reverence there, or did he dance and laugh with the winebibbers.

Our Greek Orthodox Church archdiocese has made a concerted effort to make the church a place of Joy, and gladness to be with God, yes we still approach with the fear of God, but the Bishop is not above telling the altar boys jokes before coming out for his sermon, or being fun to be with, and not always pious and stiff as we usually associate  with such people.

SOrry, I was just ROFLing real bad for a while from seeing your Mr. Nice Guy posts juxtaposed with biro and norm's brawling.

I agree with you, btw.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #430 on: October 22, 2013, 09:30:17 PM »
"By this shall all men know that you are My disciples, if you have love for each other."

That's what the choir sings when we go to Communion. Doesn't sound like an exhortation to be rude.

"Love one another, as I have loved you."

Again, not rude.
Define what you mean by "rude". How can you tell us not to be rude if you won't even tell us what "rude" means?

Are you talking about a different Jesus? Or just justifying yourselves based on what you want?
Funny, I would ask the same thing of those who imagine Jesus as just a "nice", "mild mannered" young man.

If being a nice person makes me a bad Christian, then I'm glad I missed the boat.
"Nice" is not an adjective I would use to describe you, either.
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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #431 on: October 23, 2013, 09:36:31 AM »
The Gospels terrifying? What did you do, read them upside down?

biro, you must be joking. I think I posted an entire thread on the matter and of course, I was called cryptic or something for believing in stuff the like the Parable of the Last Judgement.

I agree that some the Scriptures can be rather sobering, and perhaps we, the faithful, need to realize this.  However, they are sobering in the fact that we will be held responsible for our actions and in-actions.  That is the gist of it.

The Final Judgment makes us uncomfortable because we realize we will be held accountable.  When Christ was blunt or less than politically correct, it was to drive home the need to follow the Commandments, in order for us to realize that we WILL be held accountable. 

What exactly will we be held accountable for?

For loving or not loving each other, as biro mentioned above.

Love God above all else, and love your neighbor as yourself.

If you do these two things, you will have no need to belittle, humiliate, be rude to, injure, etc.
It's not just people you come across in the real word whom you should feed, and cloth, and visit, and nurture....but, in today's world, it is the people you meet in the Cyber world, as well.

Remember, that the written word is still a word, and that YOU WILL BE HELD accountable for supporting, teaching, spreading the Word, or for pushing people away, humiliating them, damaging their belief in Christ, etc.

It is not the moderators of this Forum whom you should fear and respect, it is God, who will also hold you responsible for what you write.

Now THAT is a sobering thought.
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Offline Hinterlander

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #432 on: October 23, 2013, 09:40:41 AM »


How dare you post the non-canonical Laughing Jesus portrait. 


Offline katherineofdixie

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #433 on: October 23, 2013, 09:55:54 AM »
The Gospels terrifying? What did you do, read them upside down?

Not ashamed to admit that this terrifies me:

"But God said to him, ‘Fool! This night your soul will be required of you; then whose will those things be which you have provided?’" Luke 12:20
"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #434 on: October 23, 2013, 09:59:19 AM »
You just can't take it that not everybody agrees with you. There's no law of the board that says everyone must agree with the high and mighty orthonorm.

Sorry, people can have other opinions on this board, and if you can't deal with that, take up a different hobby. Maybe crosswords will help you calm down.

Absolutely people can have different opinions - that's pretty much all there is here: different opinions. On rudeness, for example. Which, if I apply the strict standards others are advocating, your post would be. Rude, that is.
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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #435 on: October 23, 2013, 10:18:14 AM »
A thoughtful column - from the Wall Street Journal  - on the subject of online rudeness: "Why are We so Rude Online?"  http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10000872396390444592404578030351784405148

"Why are we often so aggressive online? Consider this recent post to this column's Facebook page, from someone I don't know: "Why should I even bother writing you? You won't respond." We're less inhibited online because we don't have to see the reaction of the person we're addressing, says Sherry Turkle, psychologist and Massachusetts Institute of Technology professor of the social studies of science and technology. Because it's harder to see and focus on what we have in common, we tend to dehumanize each other, she says."

The entire subject is complex and vexing. If this thread proves anything, it is that defining the very type of posts which require or call for moderation is a task worthy of King Solomon. One may individually sense that he or she recognizes something as 'rudeness' as it is read, but we don't all read the same post in the same manner or get the same reaction.

So, again, I think it comes down to only one solution which presents an acceptable path.  Better self moderation.

Each of us should try a bit more introspection. If we post something we soon regret after we read it, address it, clarify it and -  if necessary, retract it or apologize.

Intervention by our moderators should be the last, and final resort, since if it is applied heavily, it will anger us all.  In the final analysis too much moderation will dampen open conversation just as assuredly as will too much 'rudeness' - whatever that means.

 
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 10:18:57 AM by podkarpatska »

Offline katherineofdixie

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #436 on: October 23, 2013, 10:39:46 AM »
The entire subject is complex and vexing. If this thread proves anything, it is that defining the very type of posts which require or call for moderation is a task worthy of King Solomon. One may individually sense that he or she recognizes something as 'rudeness' as it is read, but we don't all read the same post in the same manner or get the same reaction.

So, again, I think it comes down to only one solution which presents an acceptable path.  Better self moderation.

Each of us should try a bit more introspection. If we post something we soon regret after we read it, address it, clarify it and -  if necessary, retract it or apologize.

Intervention by our moderators should be the last, and final resort, since if it is applied heavily, it will anger us all.  In the final analysis too much moderation will dampen open conversation just as assuredly as will too much 'rudeness' - whatever that means.

Thank you!
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #437 on: October 23, 2013, 11:03:09 AM »
All of podkarpatska's appeals to authority beg the question that somehow the online manner of discussion is more rude, aggressive, etc. than in RL.

Frankly, it comes down to a method of communication which precedes many people coming to a place where they don't understand the structure of communication that happens there. It reminds me of the reactions of most white people who would show up in places I lived. They saw loud, rude, and aggressive behavior everywhere. Every black kid is a menace cause of how they walked, how loud they talked, and how physical they are with each other.

Thing is, the black kids don't and I don't see it that way.

Really the only rude behavior around here is from those complaining about it, cause they are as guilty of the behavior they complain about as anyone.

I don't find anything particularly rude around here, but then I am fluent in internet and I don't assume people are trying to be "mean" (whatever that could possibly look like here). I never realized how mean and rude people actually were till they started complaining about others and themselves.

Really, it is sad you all find the need to behave in a manner you don't approve of.

So yes, I would suggest self-moderation for you.

The medium is the message. And on the internet, I guess forever fragile and pious, medium would rather be mean than average.
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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #438 on: October 23, 2013, 11:14:11 AM »
The entire subject is complex and vexing. If this thread proves anything, it is that defining the very type of posts which require or call for moderation is a task worthy of King Solomon. One may individually sense that he or she recognizes something as 'rudeness' as it is read, but we don't all read the same post in the same manner or get the same reaction.

So, again, I think it comes down to only one solution which presents an acceptable path.  Better self moderation.

Each of us should try a bit more introspection. If we post something we soon regret after we read it, address it, clarify it and -  if necessary, retract it or apologize.

Intervention by our moderators should be the last, and final resort, since if it is applied heavily, it will anger us all.  In the final analysis too much moderation will dampen open conversation just as assuredly as will too much 'rudeness' - whatever that means.

Thank you!

+100!
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #439 on: October 23, 2013, 11:18:10 AM »
All of podkarpatska's appeals to authority beg the question that somehow the online manner of discussion is more rude, aggressive, etc. than in RL.

Frankly, it comes down to a method of communication which precedes many people coming to a place where they don't understand the structure of communication that happens there. It reminds me of the reactions of most white people who would show up in places I lived. They saw loud, rude, and aggressive behavior everywhere. Every black kid is a menace cause of how they walked, how loud they talked, and how physical they are with each other.

Thing is, the black kids don't and I don't see it that way.

Really the only rude behavior around here is from those complaining about it, cause they are as guilty of the behavior they complain about as anyone.

I don't find anything particularly rude around here, but then I am fluent in internet and I don't assume people are trying to be "mean" (whatever that could possibly look like here). I never realized how mean and rude people actually were till they started complaining about others and themselves.

Really, it is sad you all find the need to behave in a manner you don't approve of.

So yes, I would suggest self-moderation for you.

The medium is the message. And on the internet, I guess forever fragile and pious, medium would rather be mean than average.

Finally, you laid our your argument in a fashion that is clear.

You are quite the modernist, making everything relative and self-centered, full of rationalizations and excuses.

Oh well, I will agree to disagree with you.

But I do think you and I laid out two reasoned approaches fairly accurately this morning, and I am interested in the responses of the forty of so souls who regularly post on this Forum.

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #440 on: October 23, 2013, 11:23:34 AM »
I can't speak to anyone else's actions or how they should behave, but I have tried to self moderate a bit more since this discussion has started, so for all those I was (and probably am still) annoying, I'm sorry, I'm a work in progress.
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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #441 on: October 23, 2013, 11:48:00 AM »
Those who cannot self-moderate, who walk in fear of authority and who need moderators to keep them in line, are like those who play the game of chicken. Perhaps it is an addiction to an adrenaline high.

Where is the Fear of the Lord, that feeling of reverence and loving awe that all Christians should have?

This saying of St. John Chrysostom comes to mind:

Quote
He who walks along a precipice, although he may not fall over, yet he trembles and often falls through that very fear. Even so, he who flies not far from sin, but keeps near to it, lives in continual fear, and often falls.

The Voice of the Saints, selected and arranged by Francis W. Johnston, Rockford, IL: TAN Publishers, p.77.

Ἅγιος ὁ Θεός
Ἅγιος ἰσχυρός
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Offline Adela

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #442 on: October 23, 2013, 12:08:23 PM »
rudeness is definately in the eye of the beholder here.  I don't find biro rude, she seems sassy to me.    But, posters I think are rude, others don't.   I don't especially like taunting and the "you are such a " posts, but it would be boring if this forum gets moderated to death.

Perhaps to try out Podkarpatska's premise there could be a way to flag a post you think is rude and then open it up for discussion and see what others think about it.  If you might get public scrutiny there might be less of a desire to post something designed to be belittling to someone else.

Personally, I think this forum has gotten much more enjoyable after all the spiritually unprofitable and infantile bickering on the Orthodox-Catholic forum has pretty much ceased. It got boring to just read the same people slugging it out. It's nice to get the posts from people who don't post often but who seem to be more inclined to post now.

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #443 on: October 23, 2013, 12:13:02 PM »
rudeness is definately in the eye of the beholder here.  I don't find biro rude, she seems sassy to me. 

sas·sy   (ss)
n. pl. sas·sies
A western African tree (Erythrophleum suaveolens) of the pea family, having bark that yields a poison and wood that is used for construction.


Biro is a tree?
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Offline Adela

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #444 on: October 23, 2013, 12:23:07 PM »
rudeness is definately in the eye of the beholder here.  I don't find biro rude, she seems sassy to me. 

sas·sy   (ss)
n. pl. sas·sies
A western African tree (Erythrophleum suaveolens) of the pea family, having bark that yields a poison and wood that is used for construction.


Biro is a tree?

Ha!  :)  Well, to be truthful, I don't know exactly what a biro is.   But, I mean sassy as "lively and spirited"  (For example, In the US, women from Texas are often more sassy, and it's meant in a more complimentary manner. ):
Sassy
adj. sas·si·er, sas·si·est
1. Rude and disrespectful; impudent.
2. Lively and spirited; jaunty.
3. Stylish; chic: a sassy little hat.

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #445 on: October 23, 2013, 12:32:46 PM »
rudeness is definately in the eye of the beholder here.  I don't find biro rude, she seems sassy to me.

sas·sy   (ss)
n. pl. sas·sies
A western African tree (Erythrophleum suaveolens) of the pea family, having bark that yields a poison and wood that is used for construction.


Biro is a tree?

"Biro" is: a) a Hungarian surname that means "judge"; b) a brand of ballpoint pen made by BIC Corp. popular in the U.K.  (Amongst other things, possibly.)

 ;D
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 12:34:44 PM by J Michael »
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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #446 on: October 23, 2013, 12:54:53 PM »
I guess my question in the context of our discussion on Rudeness is this: have we already set up a suitable framework to discourage the most egregious forms of rudeness?  It is clear that many of the respondents would have a hard time defining "rudeness" in a meaningful way that would be actionable by the mod staff.  Are the restrictions of rudeness that are already addressed in our rules (summarized below) sufficient?

- Maintain at least an "academic" level of discourse
- Respect the staff and our appeals process
- Don't harass or threaten one another or reveal private info and discussions
- Don't submit obscene or profane posts, images, or links
- Stay on target, and keep your conflicts contained within the threads they arise in
- Don't attack a person, only their arguments
- Avoid certain pejoratives
- Don't misrepresent the Church

The above list isn't intended to cover all the bases in the rules, and isn't designed to cover all types of behavior.  But does it represent an acceptable baseline for moderating rudeness (since some types of rudeness are plain, and others apparently are more nuanced than we think)?  What can/should be added to that list that would make things better?  The simple "Don't be rude" would be a poor rule since it provides no enforcement or corrective guidelines.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 12:55:11 PM by Fr. George »
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #447 on: October 23, 2013, 01:08:55 PM »
Father, if you want to hit that 22k or whatever the number is for posts this month, you have to give me more time to develop back-and-forths before coming in with practical and sane suggestions.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 01:09:39 PM by orthonorm »
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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #448 on: October 23, 2013, 01:21:58 PM »
I guess my question in the context of our discussion on Rudeness is this: have we already set up a suitable framework to discourage the most egregious forms of rudeness?  It is clear that many of the respondents would have a hard time defining "rudeness" in a meaningful way that would be actionable by the mod staff.  Are the restrictions of rudeness that are already addressed in our rules (summarized below) sufficient?

- Maintain at least an "academic" level of discourse
- Respect the staff and our appeals process
- Don't harass or threaten one another or reveal private info and discussions
- Don't submit obscene or profane posts, images, or links
- Stay on target, and keep your conflicts contained within the threads they arise in
- Don't attack a person, only their arguments
- Avoid certain pejoratives
- Don't misrepresent the Church

The above list isn't intended to cover all the bases in the rules, and isn't designed to cover all types of behavior.  But does it represent an acceptable baseline for moderating rudeness (since some types of rudeness are plain, and others apparently are more nuanced than we think)?  What can/should be added to that list that would make things better?  The simple "Don't be rude" would be a poor rule since it provides no enforcement or corrective guidelines.

I think the list is good and wouldn't suggest changing anything.
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Re: Rudeness
« Reply #449 on: October 23, 2013, 01:28:55 PM »

I agree.

I would also suggest that people try to be nicer, all on their own.

Don't say things to hurt others.  There's no reason to be mean or spiteful.

Think before you post.  If someone directed what you write to you, would you be offended?  If so, don't write it.  Please.

Let's all act like the Orthodox Christians we claim to be.

It's really not that hard.
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria